View Full Version : Key to any post-season success?
One more time
When the Broncos face the 49ers' Frank Gore on Sunday, it will mean the team has faced six of the league's top seven rushers this year. Here's how the Broncos fared against the other five:
Date Back, team Carries Yards Yards/carry TDs
Sept. 10 Steven Jackson, Rams 22 121 5.5 0
Sept. 17 Larry Johnson, Chiefs 27 126 4.7 0
Nov. 5 Willie Parker, Steelers 14 70 5.0 1
Nov. 19 LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers 20 105 5.3 3
Nov. 23 Larry Johnson, Chiefs 34 157 4.6 1
Dec. 10 LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers 28 103 3.7 3
Dec. 24 Rudi Johnson, Bengals 30 129 4.3 1
This is just bull$hit. I haven't seen a defense in Denver this soft since 2000 when Corey Dillon set the rushing game record total against us. If it is one area where we have regressed the most, it is in this aspect. we have let teams run at will on us. For how good our LB's are supposed to be, they have really allowed opposing running games to dominate us. I blame Gold and DJ as both have underachieved most of the 2nd half of this season. We will need them to play with a lot more intensity if we are going to win against SF and in the playoffs hopefully there after.
Jetmeck
12-28-2006, 03:22 AM
Agreed
SoCalBronco
12-28-2006, 03:38 AM
I dunno Chris.....there are alot of things at play there besides the OLBs. DJ has barely been on the field the last few weeks anyway, esp. in the Cincinnati game. He got about 10-15 snaps the whole game. As much as I absolutely hate defending Ian, I don't think he has been the culprit in these games either. Ofcourse they have both missed some tackles, and Al as well, as their fundamentals have been a bit shaky the last half of the season, but I don't think that is at the center of the problem. Our main run plugger, Warren, is plagued by that toe and our best run defending end went on the IR and hasnt played a game all year. It is a tight rope for Coyer to walk, he's trying to play the DL upfield a little more because their pathetic asses cant get a rush playing normally, but thats going to hurt in the run game. It's a tough deal.
Killericon
12-28-2006, 03:54 AM
I blame Gold and DJ as both have underachieved most of the 2nd half of this season.
It's hard for linebackers to make plays when they have to tie up blockers every play. The Defensive line, as always, is not doing well at run-stuffing. I wish Gerard Warren had gotten a contract that was incentive-based...
Popps
12-28-2006, 04:04 AM
[I][COLOR="DarkOrange"]This is just bull$hit. I haven't seen a defense in Denver this soft since 2000 when Corey Dillon set the rushing game record total against us.
Gospel.
Same thing I've been saying for years. You'll get a few more takers now that the QB distraction is out of the way. People around here are going to have to come to grips with the reality that we can have the best QB in the history of the planet, and without a defense... we're just the Colts. (You know, the team with Mr. Awesome that's getting their ass repeatedly kicked by real defenses.)
Here we are.... approaching playoff time and no surprise... teams with dominant defenses and running games are picking up steam while the "offense has to make up for the defense" teams are headed for the golf course.
Killericon
12-28-2006, 04:11 AM
Gospel.
Same thing I've been saying for years. You'll get a few more takers now that the QB distraction is out of the way. People around here are going to have to come to grips with the reality that we can have the best QB in the history of the planet, and without a defense... we're just the Colts. (You know, the team with Mr. Awesome that's getting their ass repeatedly kicked by real defenses.)
Here we are.... approaching playoff time and no surprise... teams with dominant defenses and running games are picking up steam while the "offense has to make up for the defense" teams are headed for the golf course.
How the mighty have fallen. Week 5, could it have been conceivable that we would be grouped with the Colts as a "Offense making up for Defense" team? A tinker here, some motivation there, and I think we'd have a great defense. It's practically the same one we had last year; or the one from the first 6 weeks of this season.
Popps
12-28-2006, 04:17 AM
It's practically the same one we had last year; or the one from the first 6 weeks of this season.
Exactly. It's that same defense that... when faced with a challenge from a top tier offense, fails miserably. You saw that same defense do everything they could to toss that game in the trash last weekend. Some penalties, lucky bounces and a great offensive day saved us from our own defense.
But, if I had to bet... I'd say that stuff (lucky breaks) won't continue in the coming weeks. We'll need the D to actually show up and perform at some point... something they just don't seem capable of.
Killericon
12-28-2006, 04:34 AM
Exactly. It's that same defense that... when faced with a challenge from a top tier offense, fails miserably. You saw that same defense do everything they could to toss that game in the trash last weekend. Some penalties, lucky bounces and a great offensive day saved us from our own defense.
But, if I had to bet... I'd say that stuff (lucky breaks) won't continue in the coming weeks. We'll need the D to actually show up and perform at some point... something they just don't seem capable of.
Bah! We shut down Tom Brady. We shut down the Ravens. Okay...Maybe those aren't top-teir, but still!
Our Run-Defense was solid until that horrid losing skid we went on(Of course, we had lots of issues in that stretch). I'm convinced that if Coyer can take some more gamble like he was doing last year, he can compensate for the lack of a solid interior run defense; even if only a little. If he can do that, then the opposing teams, essentially, are left with one choice: Darrent Williams(Did you know he has 4 picks on the year? Not half bad...). Of course, this is all talk on my part.
All I know is, we had an epic sreak of not allowing a touchdown at the start of the season, and played shut-down defense until the Colts game.
My key to any post-season success: Not playing the Colts in the first Round...Or 2nd...or 3rd...
Jetmeck
12-28-2006, 04:43 AM
Yes they did play much better earlier in the year and I WANT TO BELIEVE they can again but much of the early success was against several lower tier teams.
I want to say if they play with more desire and heart we can play at that level of defense or close to it again this year. Maybe it is wishful thinking but I am hopeful they will show up from now on and play like they have a purpose.
elsid13
12-28-2006, 08:51 AM
There are two things that Denver needs to improve on in playoff (if they make it) running the ball and defending the run. Both lines have been inconstant in these all year long.
spdirty
12-28-2006, 09:34 AM
Key to postseason success? Jay Cutlers awesomeness.
broncsyanks
12-28-2006, 10:21 AM
this goes without say. the key to winning in the post season is running the ball as well as stopping the run. that being said take a look at those stats again. with those 100 yrd. rushers- how many had a big run against us to sport those hundred yard rushing? then ask yourself this. is it really our linebackers? or is it our tackling ability combined with us not stacking the line so that we dont give up the big passing play? there is your answer.
Garcia Bronco
12-28-2006, 10:25 AM
Well in the Cinicy game for example...Coyer seemed more concerned about their passing game.
OrangeShadow
12-28-2006, 10:27 AM
its hard for DJ to under achieve when he isnt on the field more than 15 plays a game
Smiling Assassin27
12-28-2006, 10:31 AM
One more time
When the Broncos face the 49ers' Frank Gore on Sunday, it will mean the team has faced six of the league's top seven rushers this year. Here's how the Broncos fared against the other five:
Date Back, team Carries Yards Yards/carry TDs
Sept. 10 Steven Jackson, Rams 22 121 5.5 0
Sept. 17 Larry Johnson, Chiefs 27 126 4.7 0
Nov. 5 Willie Parker, Steelers 14 70 5.0 1
Nov. 19 LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers 20 105 5.3 3
Nov. 23 Larry Johnson, Chiefs 34 157 4.6 1
Dec. 10 LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers 28 103 3.7 3
Dec. 24 Rudi Johnson, Bengals 30 129 4.3 1
This is just bull$hit. I haven't seen a defense in Denver this soft since 2000 when Corey Dillon set the rushing game record total against us. If it is one area where we have regressed the most, it is in this aspect. we have let teams run at will on us. For how good our LB's are supposed to be, they have really allowed opposing running games to dominate us. I blame Gold and DJ as both have underachieved most of the 2nd half of this season. We will need them to play with a lot more intensity if we are going to win against SF and in the playoffs hopefully there after.
It still comes down to stopping the run and being able to grind out yards on the ground. It's no secret. Either this d-line sacks up and our RB's are timely and productive, or we go down early. (Assuming we even get in, which is no given)
-Slap-
12-28-2006, 10:43 AM
I dunno Chris.....there are alot of things at play there besides the OLBs. DJ has barely been on the field the last few weeks anyway, esp. in the Cincinnati game. He got about 10-15 snaps the whole game. As much as I absolutely hate defending Ian, I don't think he has been the culprit in these games either. Ofcourse they have both missed some tackles, and Al as well, as their fundamentals have been a bit shaky the last half of the season, but I don't think that is at the center of the problem. Our main run plugger, Warren, is plagued by that toe and our best run defending end went on the IR and hasnt played a game all year. It is a tight rope for Coyer to walk, he's trying to play the DL upfield a little more because their pathetic asses cant get a rush playing normally, but thats going to hurt in the run game. It's a tough deal.
In other words, the defensive line has to rush the passer, play the running game and keep blockers off "The Best Linebackers in Football."
Piece of cake.
bendog
12-28-2006, 10:50 AM
In other words, the defensive line has to rush the passer, play the running game and keep blockers off "The Best Linebackers in Football."
Piece of cake.
Wilson has always been overrated. He's really suited to the 3-4 ... or strongside, though he's maybe too slow now for that. In 96 they had Robo, who went over 240, Aldridge who went around the same, and a young and very fast Mobley at approaching 230. These guys just can't shed blocks. DJ's the only one with prototype size, and first they moved him from his position, and then moved him off the field for an extra dback. I hate Coyer.
ludo21
12-28-2006, 10:51 AM
Well in the Cinicy game for example...Coyer seemed more concerned about their passing game.
We had about 6 guys MAX in the box the whole game. It was a good gameplan and wored out decently.
Fact is, Gore IS their offense and we will put 8 in teh box on every play until Smith proves he can pass on us.
I have a weird feeling that the Niners can beat us, but also that we can dominate them. We are better in every aspect, just gotta go out and do it.
Liquid Courage
12-28-2006, 10:51 AM
For how good our LB's are supposed to be, they have really allowed opposing running games to dominate us. I blame Gold and DJ as both have underachieved most of the 2nd half of this season. We will need them to play with a lot more intensity if we are going to win against SF and in the playoffs hopefully there after.
It is hard for LBs to do their jobs when they are busy having to side-step a back-peddling Gerrad Warren and Mike Myers. The running game is won and lost in the trenches; and our boys in the DT positions haven't gotten it done this year.
Stormontheplains
12-28-2006, 10:55 AM
I am firm on the fact if we want to stop the run the only immediate solution is to start Nate Webster at Will or Sam. He is rested, can take on blocks, plus he is mean and nasty. Other than that there is nothing else we can do.
jonny1
12-28-2006, 10:57 AM
The keys to post-season success???
End up with more points than the other guy . . . :-)
elsid13
12-28-2006, 10:58 AM
I am firm on the fact if we want to stop the run the only immediate solution is to start Nate Webster at Will or Sam. He is rested, can take on blocks, plus he is mean and nasty. Other than that there is nothing else we can do.
that not going to happen. Coyer and Shanahan like Gold ability to place in space and believe he is a play maker. The other way to limit the opponent ability to run is to get a decent lead and force them to play catch up. IT WOULD BE NICE TO SCORE ON THOSE SCRIPTED PLAYS IN THE FIRST QTR.
RocBronc
12-28-2006, 11:04 AM
It seems this team is going to have to rely on the big play... We have to hope our few playmakers make lots of game changing plays. If they don't we don't have the talent level on both lines to win a "normal" game.
elsid13
12-28-2006, 11:05 AM
It seems this team is going to have to rely on the big play... We have to hope our few playmakers make lots of game changing plays. If they don't we don't have the talent level on both lines to win a "normal" game.
I think that the offense line with the right back in there is up to the challenge of running the ball down folks throats and chewing up TOP.
I just don't understand how we flowed so well to the ball last season. We ate up opposing running games. This season we are taking it on the chin. I saw Rudi Johnson hitting holes like he was TD against us, picking up about 5 or 6 yards before anybody even got to him.
Is it the loss of Trevor Pryce? I doubt he could have done that much but everybody else on the team is basically the same. It is either him or a mentality.
We need to jack this defense up in the postseason. I can't stand seeing a soft a$$ defense.
bendog
12-28-2006, 11:43 AM
Big Money with two toes and a 265 lb pass rush/ run DE it would look a lot better. But I still don't see why they bothered to move up to take DJ. Yes, they really wanted Clayton from LSU who TB took before us, but they knew that was a possibility (a liklihood more like it given Keychain Johnson's shannigans), so if they didn't think DJ was worth the value of the slot, they either should never have moved up or tried to trade back out.
wolf754life
12-28-2006, 12:24 PM
steve jax from Oregon state, never going to happen, but what a mistake
Popps
12-28-2006, 01:20 PM
I just don't understand how we flowed so well to the ball last season. We ate up opposing running games. This season we are taking it on the chin. I saw Rudi Johnson hitting holes like he was TD against us, picking up about 5 or 6 yards before anybody even got to him.
Is it the loss of Trevor Pryce? I doubt he could have done that much but everybody else on the team is basically the same. It is either him or a mentality. .
Pryce was pretty invisible, but he probably ate up a lot of double-teams that Warren is now seeing. The loss of Brown probably isn't helping, either. He played a good deal of last season and at least gave us some muscle up front. Lang gets pushed around fairly easily on run-downs.
We need to jack this defense up in the postseason. I can't stand seeing a soft a$$ defense.
It's painful to watch our defense after watching a defense like Baltimore or Miami... and the excuses about how good other teams are have finally dried up. We've just got problems and it starts up front. But, this is nothing remotely new. It was masked a little better last year with Pryce and Brown around, but we don't have a big-time player in the front four, and honestly... I don't think anyone outside of Denver would say we have one in the front seven. I love Al Wilson, but he's an undersized, above-average linebacker and a great leader. But, c'mon... teams don't have to scheme to account for Al Wilson the way they would Merriman.
You're right on the money, Chris. This thread won't get the 10,000 hits a QB thread would get, but when all is said and done this year, this will be the thread that tells the story to our season.
The question is now, can we do enough with smoke/mirrors and can our offense help us play around our defense enough to make any noise in the playoffs. History isn't on our side in that regard. But, I'll be hoping we can pull something off.
-Slap-
12-28-2006, 01:31 PM
Big Money with two toes and a 265 lb pass rush/ run DE it would look a lot better. But I still don't see why they bothered to move up to take DJ. Yes, they really wanted Clayton from LSU who TB took before us, but they knew that was a possibility (a liklihood more like it given Keychain Johnson's shannigans), so if they didn't think DJ was worth the value of the slot, they either should never have moved up or tried to trade back out.
Well, we lucked out there. After an outstanding rookie season, Clayton's career is now at a crossroads two years later.
You can make a strong argument for him as the worst starting skill position player in the NFL the last two seasons.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492908
RocBronc
12-28-2006, 01:34 PM
I think that the offense line with the right back in there is up to the challenge of running the ball down folks throats and chewing up TOP.
Nalen is past his prime, our guards are adequate, Pears has performed o.k. but he's a backup and don't get me started on Foster...
I don't think either Bell is a superstar but it has been the consistency of the line over the last several years that has allowed us to have such a dominating running game not "great" backs.
I'm just disappointed with the play of the vets in the middle of our defense. They are supposed to be the best LB trio in the game and I'm sorry... if you let opposing HB's run at will on you, you are not that. I could giving up one or two games... but we've allowed LT and LJ to do it twice on us. We lost three of those games. Rudi ran all over us and the play where we effed' up our defense was all out of position and we got lucky by a timely play that Lynch came up with where we got a fumble. St. Louis iced us late because we couldn't stop the damn rush. Jackson put the game away.
We are staring at Jamal Lewis, LT, Dillon, Maroney, and Addai in the playoffs. We take those guys away and we make opposing offenses one dimentional. I'll take my chances with that and Cutler being able to score over 20 points.
I understand that we are short handed at DT but it should not be such a big transition from last season to this year. We are without Pryce and Brown. Brown was hurt much of last season and Pryce in my oppinion didn't really do so much that we couldn't replace him. We dominated the run last year. We aren't doing crap this season. I look at Gold and DJ and I don't see them consistently making plays. I understand that DJ came out on third downs but he should be an impact player where ever he is. He was playing very strong early in the season... when we were playing great defense. His play IMO has deteriorated throughout the season.
I understand that he is miffed about being out of position but he needs to play. Great players come to play.
I haven't seen a defense in Denver this soft since 2000 when Corey Dillon set the rushing game record total against us.
That game sucked live. From my seat in the stands you could see the holes and the over pursuit by Romo and others, not to mention the poor tackling by the secondary.
Even Peter Warrick had a 100 yards rushing that game!
Most of our 2nd half defensive meltdowns this year have been against the no-huddle. We're going to see a lot of no-huddle in the playoffs because the good teams have QB's that are good enough to run no-huddle. If we can stop the no-huddle, we could go a long way in the playoffs.