Just How Good IS Champ?

[Rock Chalk]

OK, well after perusing some of the sites for stats I cant seem to find the one I want on Champ just to get an idea of how good he really is compared to his peers.

How many times has he been thrown at compared to the other "good" corners?

Champ leads the league in picks and passes defensed (tied with Asante Samuel in both categories, though others have as many PDs as those two).

Considering I can only recall at most 3 or 4 passes thrown in champs direction in any given game. Im going with an average of 4 attempts his way a game.

14 games * 4 = 56 passes thrown towards him.

19 have been defensed and 8 have been interception.

29 passes thrown to champ. Of those Id figure half were actually completed passes. or 14 passes.

There is a 14 percent chance Champ will pick off a pass. That seems like a high number to me.

There is a 34 percent chance Champ will defend the pass. Thats an insanely high number to me.

There is only a 23 percent chance the ball will be completed on Champ.

This going by an average of 4 pass attempts per game. Maybe my attempts per game are wrong, but I dont think they can be much more than that.

That kind of puts it into perspective of just how good this guy really is.

[toad]

I'd like to know the "inside" numbers on this as well.

From the games I've seen, though, 3-4 passes his way per game may be a little low....I know a lot of QBs "avoid" him but 3-4 seems a tad low (maybe not, though).

[OrangeShadow]

outside of denver and maybe KC SD and OAK.(just because they play against him twice a year) really realize how dominant he is. Some of my friends up here who are patriot fans dont even think hes the best in the league and certainly dont think hes the best ever.

[RhymesayersDU]

Man, I cannot believe we traded Portis for this scrub.

[BlaK-Argentina]

Nice.
I think you probably have it right, even though I remember games where they only threw his way once or twice.

I think probably my favorites plays are when I see the QB looking in Champ's direction. Only good things happen for us when they do. :)

[OrangeShadow]

The best play ive seen so far is either the pick in the NE playoff game or the one vs NO a couple years ago when he ran from the other side of the endzone and picked it off touching both feet in bounds.

[SureShot]

In one word he is amazing! Usually tackles are considered a negative stat for CBs, meaning that most tackles that are made are due to their man catching the ball, but he is a ball hawk. It will be pretty difficult to quantify how good Champ really is.

[ZONA]

The only stat you need is that EVERYBODY in the NFL, from players to coaches, KNOW he is the best. What other CB's do you know that stike fear into other QB's as much as Champ and also tackle as well as anybody in the league? Dion Sanders put the spot light on "Shut Down" corners but Champ is putting the spot light on "Complete Package" corners.

[ZONA]

The best play ive seen so far is either the pick in the NE playoff game or the one vs NO a couple years ago when he ran from the other side of the endzone and picked it off touching both feet in bounds.


Those were nice. But how about his last INT. I think it clearly shows why it's not only dangerous to throw at him, but even to the side of field he is on. He had his man covered for like 3 or 4 seconds, then has the awareness to see the QB is going to another player even further downfield on the same side, so he leaves his man and SNAG! He's not only covering his guy, he's helping cover other guys at the SAME FRICKIN TIME. How awesome is that.

[freak6]

I am going to throw up if I here him compared to Deion again. Champ is a hybrid cross of Ronnie Lott and Deion Sanders. Covering and making picks only tells half of the story with Champ Bailey, same with Deion. But Champs other half is playing defense, Deion's is returning kicks.

[Florida_Bronco]

outside of denver and maybe KC SD and OAK.(just because they play against him twice a year) really realize how dominant he is. Some of my friends up here who are patriot fans dont even think hes the best in the league and certainly dont think hes the best ever.

Just out of curiousity, who do they think is better right now?

[Jason in LA]

I bet we could get those stats from the Broncos, if we contact the right person. I'll get on the horn and see what I can dig up.

[Bronx33]

Champ is so good he makes tedi bruchi look like a girl scout..

[ZONA]

Just out of curiousity, who do they think is better right now?

Believe it or not, there are some pretty dumb people out there. My brother in law last year kept calling him Chump Bailey and said he thought he sucked. I just about wanted to haul off and crack his dome, but he is family. When I asked why, all he could say is that one play where TO beat him for a TD. Go figure. Wonder what he thinks this year.

[Smiling Assassin27]

he's worthy of being an attendant on Tedy Bruschi's homecoming queen float.

[OrangeShadow]

I bet we could get those stats from the Broncos, if we contact the right person. I'll get on the horn and see what I can dig up.

Most say mcallister but i usually dont ask because i dont feel like hein loas o crap.

[Beantown Bronco]

Champ Bailey could tackle Chuck Norris in the open field....that's all I need to know.

[Mediator12]

I know alec is a little pissy right now, but you know I have the stats dude. If i have Darrent's, I have Champ's too right ;D

Who votes for DPOY?

I have the stats and they are sick dude! Thirteen targets in the red zone with 6 INT's. 39 total targets, 8 INT's, 11 passes defensed officially but I had twelve. Also, he had 12 receptions allowed on five hitch routes, two quick outs, 3 deep in's, two crossing patterns, 1 fade, and one slant. He has allowed less than a reception a game, a 31% completion rate, a 21% INT rate, and he is the least targeted Starting CB in the league by over 50 times at this point.

His targets do not include 2 INT's that were not thrown at his man and two Passes defensed that were not thrown at his man. Basically do not even throw to his side of the field unless its way in front of him.

Of course that does not include 6 TD saving tackles in the running game including 3 against LJ that led to a FG, and two TO's by the chiefs without those plays. Dude defines playmaker and is easily the most effective player per play on Defense in the NFL IMHO.

[Clockwork Orange]

I know alec is a little pissy right now, but you know I have the stats dude. If i have Darrent's, I have Champ's too right ;D

Who votes for DPOY?

I have the stats and they are sick dude! Thirteen targets in the red zone with 6 INT's. 39 total targets, 8 INT's, 11 passes defensed officially but I had twelve. Also, he had 12 receptions allowed on five hitch routes, two quick outs, 3 deep in's, two crossing patterns, 1 fade, and one slant. He has allowed less than a reception a game, a 31% completion rate, a 21% INT rate, and he is the least targeted Starting CB in the league by over 50 times at this point.

His targets do not include 2 INT's that were not thrown at his man and two Passes defensed that were not thrown at his man. Basically do not even throw to his side of the field unless its way in front of him.

Of course that does not include 6 TD saving tackles in the running game including 3 against LJ that led to a FG, and two TO's by the chiefs without those plays. Dude defines playmaker and is easily the most effective player per play on Defense in the NFL IMHO.

You should e-mail that info to the Broncos beat writers at the Denver Post & Rocky Mountain News.

[freak6]

I know alec is a little pissy right now, but you know I have the stats dude. If i have Darrent's, I have Champ's too right ;D

Who votes for DPOY?

I have the stats and they are sick dude! Thirteen targets in the red zone with 6 INT's. 39 total targets, 8 INT's, 11 passes defensed officially but I had twelve. Also, he had 12 receptions allowed on five hitch routes, two quick outs, 3 deep in's, two crossing patterns, 1 fade, and one slant. He has allowed less than a reception a game, a 31% completion rate, a 21% INT rate, and he is the least targeted Starting CB in the league by over 50 times at this point.

His targets do not include 2 INT's that were not thrown at his man and two Passes defensed that were not thrown at his man. Basically do not even throw to his side of the field unless its way in front of him.

Of course that does not include 6 TD saving tackles in the running game including 3 against LJ that led to a FG, and two TO's by the chiefs without those plays. Dude defines playmaker and is easily the most effective player per play on Defense in the NFL IMHO.

Preach

[Rock Chalk]

I know alec is a little pissy right now, but you know I have the stats dude. If i have Darrent's, I have Champ's too right ;D

Who votes for DPOY?

I have the stats and they are sick dude! Thirteen targets in the red zone with 6 INT's. 39 total targets, 8 INT's, 11 passes defensed officially but I had twelve. Also, he had 12 receptions allowed on five hitch routes, two quick outs, 3 deep in's, two crossing patterns, 1 fade, and one slant. He has allowed less than a reception a game, a 31% completion rate, a 21% INT rate, and he is the least targeted Starting CB in the league by over 50 times at this point.

His targets do not include 2 INT's that were not thrown at his man and two Passes defensed that were not thrown at his man. Basically do not even throw to his side of the field unless its way in front of him.

Of course that does not include 6 TD saving tackles in the running game including 3 against LJ that led to a FG, and two TO's by the chiefs without those plays. Dude defines playmaker and is easily the most effective player per play on Defense in the NFL IMHO.

NFL stats have him listed for 19 passes defensed. Tied for best in the league.

[Rock Chalk]

SeE I put him down for 56 targeted passes and he only has 39?

Jesus. That makes his numbers even more ridiculous.

[DeusExManning]

Wow, everyone says that Deion was just as good, but he was allowed to bump a little bit in coverage. Champ is simply the best in my lifetime.

[Mediator12]

NFL stats have him listed for 19 passes defensed. Tied for best in the league.

Where? The players list has at 11 on NFL.com. Someone might be combining PD's with his INT's but they are kept in seperate categories.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I have never seen a DB dominate like Champ does. Last season, Champ carried the team. He was our main playmaker, as was encapsulated nicely by his performance in the Pats playoff game. Champ is the best. No one else is even close. Sanders always played on great teams in his prime. Champ is carrying his team.

[Mediator12]

SeE I put him down for 56 targeted passes and he only has 39?

Jesus. That makes his numbers even more ridiculous.

He made plays on 6 other passes that were not his primary targets and sometimes people think he is the primary coverage when he tackles a guy that is not his man so some people might think he is thrown at more than he is. He has also drawn three Offensive PI's on plays WR's tried to keep him from INT's. The one that pisses me off most was the second play of NE's TD scoring drive. They never score in that game if Caldwell does not drag him down from Picking Brady when he had position ;D

Plus, the only play I have seen him fail to make was the Gates TD in SD that went threw his hands. Unreal, pure and simple. One mistake on someone else's coverage and he still almost made that play.

[Mile High Shack]

Champ is just unreal, he is the best defender in the game

with how the passing rules are now days and for him to still be this dominant is just unreal

[Bronx33]

Wow, everyone says that Deion was just as good, but he was allowed to bump a little bit in coverage. Champ is simply the best in my lifetime.


Deion was also a girl when it came to tackling.

[Ratboy]

I'm not sure how other people feel about Bailey, I think he's the best Cornerback to ever touch the field.

Here is Champ compared to Deion (8 years)

Champ -
549 Tackles
37 Interceptions
97 Passes Defended

Deion -
255 Tackles
34 Interceptions
83 Passes Defended

[Bronx33]

I'm not sure how other people feel about Bailey, I think he's the best Cornerback to ever touch the field.

Here is Champ compared to Deion (8 years)

Champ -
549 Tackles
37 Interceptions
97 Passes Defended

Deion -
255 Tackles
34 Interceptions
83 Passes Defended



And the glaring fact deion was a girl when it came to tackling sticks out like a broken beer.

[-Slap-]

1 - Dick Lane

2 - Mike Haynes

3 - Roland Bailey

[2KBack]

the old guard will never acknowledge Champ as the best. No one from a current era can ever be as good as someone from a past era, that's just the way of things.

[freak6]

1 - Dick Lane

2 - Mike Haynes

3 - Roland Bailey


The rule changes have affected the game so much. I guess you can say by thier era maybe.

But in THIS era, what CB is comparable to Champ?

None. Not one in the last 20 years.

So if you are saying that straight up, with Nighttrain and Champ next to eachother, you'd think Lane is a better corner than Champ Bailey I say you are wrong.

Put Champ in that era and he would probably not only the best CB in the league, he would be the best WR too.

I don't see how anyone stacks up higher than our guy.

[-Slap-]

The rule changes have affected the game so much. I guess you can say by thier era maybe.

But in THIS era, what CB is comparable to Champ?

None. Not one in the last 20 years.

So if you are saying that straight up, with Nighttrain and Champ next to eachother, you'd think Lane is a better corner than Champ Bailey I say you are wrong.

Put Champ in that era and he would probably not only the best CB in the league, he would be the best WR too.

I don't see how anyone stacks up higher than our guy.

Lane was a much bigger hitter and he made a huge impact on the League from day one.

He set the NFL record for interceptions with 14, a record that still stands today and he did it in a 12 game season. He did that as a rookie, then people stopped throwing his way. He still finished his career with 68 picks.

By the way, he was raised by a woman named Emma Lane, who found him as an infant in a trash dumpster.

[-Slap-]

the old guard will never acknowledge Champ as the best. No one from a current era can ever be as good as someone from a past era, that's just the way of things.

Actually, we live in such an insecure culture that society demands eveything current must be considered the greatest of all time.

The 1999 Rams offense, the 2000 Ravens defense, Peyton, LT, etcetera, ad nauseum.

[Rock Chalk]

Actually, we live in such an insecure culture that society demands eveything current must be considered the greatest of all time.

The 1999 Rams offense, the 2000 Ravens defense, Peyton, LT, etcetera, ad nauseum.

He said the "Old gaurd", people like you and B-love who believe that the past had the best to offer and nothing new will ever be as good.

Of course, the new gaurd are just ignorant ****s. I personally believe that the best is yet to come but there is a good mix of best ever from recent times as well as ancient times (ancient being pre-1976 when I was born)

[ZONA]

Here, let's put it like this. As good as LT is at RB, Champ is even better at CB. That should put it into perspective. Champ is simply re-writing the book on how to play CB.

And when another 6 years go by and Champ gets older and loses a step or two, add a few pounds and we'll move him to Safety for another 4 years........Yeah Baby. Champ - A Bronco For Life!

One day, he will be up on that Ring Of Fame with the other Bronco legends.

[OrangeShadow]

The things that make champ the best ever are the fact that hr tackles like a freakin backer
the rules are tailored specifally to the offense nowadays and that makes champ even more special.
sanders couldnt hold champs jock strap.

[freak6]

Lane was a much bigger hitter and he made a huge impact on the League from day one.

He set the NFL record for interceptions with 14, a record that still stands today and he did it in a 12 game season. He did that as a rookie, then people stopped throwing his way. He still finished his career with 68 picks.

By the way, he was raised by a woman named Emma Lane, who found him as an infant in a trash dumpster.

Wild story.

He ripped guys heads off with his "tackling"/ clotheslines. For his era he was the best, he was voted best DB for the first 50 years of Pro Football.

Tough to argue with that when you look at the player "in his era". I can't argue with that.

These days, with the players being so much bigger, faster, and stronger, I'll take Champ Bailey though, especially with the rule changes.

It's crazy to think about, but I'd bet if Jay Cutler went back in time to the 50's he'd be the strongest player in the NFL.

[-Slap-]

He said the "Old gaurd", people like you and B-love who believe that the past had the best to offer and nothing new will ever be as good.

Actually, posters like BLove and myself (and some others on this board) prefer to educate ourselves on these types of debates before we start throwing out opinions. You set no such requisite upon yourself, which is unfortunate.

[Kaylore]

OK, well after perusing some of the sites for stats I cant seem to find the one I want on Champ just to get an idea of how good he really is compared to his peers.

How many times has he been thrown at compared to the other "good" corners?

Champ leads the league in picks and passes defensed (tied with Asante Samuel in both categories, though others have as many PDs as those two).

Considering I can only recall at most 3 or 4 passes thrown in champs direction in any given game. Im going with an average of 4 attempts his way a game.

14 games * 4 = 56 passes thrown towards him.

19 have been defensed and 8 have been interception.

29 passes thrown to champ. Of those Id figure half were actually completed passes. or 14 passes.

There is a 14 percent chance Champ will pick off a pass. That seems like a high number to me.

There is a 34 percent chance Champ will defend the pass. Thats an insanely high number to me.

There is only a 23 percent chance the ball will be completed on Champ.

This going by an average of 4 pass attempts per game. Maybe my attempts per game are wrong, but I dont think they can be much more than that.

That kind of puts it into perspective of just how good this guy really is.

Good stuff, and that's only half the story though Alec. Of those completions, how many were for first downs? How many were more than 5 yards? The few completions he's had have been for minimal yardage. That is pretty sick.

[BroncoFiend]

Actually, we live in such an insecure culture that society demands eveything current must be considered the greatest of all time.

The 1999 Rams offense, the 2000 Ravens defense, Peyton, LT, etcetera, ad nauseum.

He he he, the media stating that everything current is the greatest has nothing to do with our 'insecure culture', stop being so dramatic. The media sensationalizes everything because it's proven to get better ratings that way.

People are just naturally more interested in something if they think they are seeing the best ever. Why do you think there is such a increase in the level of interest in golf since Tiger has come on to the scene?

Not to mention the fact that historically, athletes do get bigger, stronger and faster as time goes on. There are many factors that contribute to that fact.

[-Slap-]

Wild story.

He ripped guys heads off with his "tackling"/ clotheslines. For his era he was the best, he was voted best DB for the first 50 years of Pro Football.

Tough to argue with that when you look at the player "in his era". I can't argue with that.

These days, with the players being so much bigger, faster, and stronger, I'll take Champ Bailey though, especially with the rule changes.

It's crazy to think about, but I'd bet if Jay Cutler went back in time to the 50's he'd be the strongest player in the NFL.

Dick Lane was 6'2", 210 pounds and he was about as nasty a tackler as ever played cornerback. His first game in the NFL, he broke the arm of the guy he was covering. He's fourth all time in interceptions and second all time in interception return yardage. He also started his career two years late because of an Army commitment.

For Champ to be regarded in the same class, all he has to do is sustain his level of play for another four years.

[-Slap-]

He he he, the media stating that everything current is the greatest has nothing to do with our 'insecure culture', stop being so dramatic. The media sensationalizes everything because it's proven to get better ratings that way.

I'm not being dramatic. I'm just telling you something you don't want to hear.

[Kaylore]

Dick Lane was 6'2", 210 pounds and he was about as nasty a tackler as ever played cornerback. His first game in the NFL, he broke the arm of the guy he was covering. He's fourth all time in interceptions and second all time in interception return yardage. He also started his career two years late because of an Army commitment.

For Champ to be regarded in the same class, all he has to do is sustain his level of play for another four years.

Actually since we are using Lane's 12 game season to his advantage, we can flip it the other way and figure roughly 160 games. So Champ just needs to play at his current level 2 more seasons to equal the same number of games. Nnyah!

[BroncoFiend]

I'm not being dramatic. I'm just telling you something you don't want to hear.

No, no, I'm not saying that our culture isn't insecure, it's just that an 'insecure culture' and needing to believe today's teams and players are the greatest have nothing to do with each other.

If anything a society feels to need to think better of it's history in order to strengthen its cultural standing.

An example of cultural insecurity would be to insult or look down on a person or group of people who do things differently than you do, NOT thinking today's accomplishments are greater than the accomplishments achieved in your own societies past.

[freak6]

An example of cultural insecurity would be to insult or look down on a person or group of people who do things differently than you do, NOT thinking today's accomplishments are greater than the accomplishments achieved in your own societies past.

All I know is that Jay Cutler is gonna have us saying "John Who" after a few seasons. Elway was so damn overrated anyway, with weapons like the 3 Amigo's making his wild arm look decent it's no wonder he was carried to 3 Superbowls that he choked away!!!

Champ is so good he plays cover 2 and cover 4 at the same time. If you don't believe me ask Matt Leinart! lol

[Rock Chalk]

Actually, posters like BLove and myself (and some others on this board) prefer to educate ourselves on these types of debates before we start throwing out opinions. You set no such requisite upon yourself, which is unfortunate.

No, Blove and yourself are pompous self gratiating wannabe know it alls who think anyone with a differing opinion is wrong.

I dont blame eiter of you, most of us are like that.

[freak6]

No, Blove and yourself are pompous self gratiating wannabe know it alls who think anyone with a differing opinion is wrong.



BWAAA HAAA HAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Kaylore]

who think anyone with a differing opinion is wrong.


Well that's pretty normal. I mean isn't a differing opinion by definition a belief that the original opinion isn't right? I mean how can you have a differing opinion than someone and not think they're wrong?

[freak6]

I have a diff opinion than Slap, but I don't think he is wrong either. It depends on whether there are facts, and the difference in era makes it a debate worth arguing because they do not point to one player over the other.

Now if you want to debate current players and how they play or effect the game, like in the Jake vs Jay debate, you, me, socal, slap, tj, and others were right because the facts were on our side...

imo

lol

[Kaylore]

One thing Champ has over the old-school guys is the way the game is called. You could play way more physical back then than you can now and I think the "hands-off" policy of our current time give Bailey an edge. Also offenses weren't as complex back then and they generally ran the ball more than they do now. I'd be curious to see the number of times teams passed the ball then compared to now.

[BroncoFiend]

Well that's pretty normal. I mean isn't a differing opinion by definition a belief that the original opinion isn't right? I mean how can you have a differing opinion than someone and not think they're wrong?

I think you're wrong...but that's just my opinion ;)

[B-Love]

He said the "Old gaurd", people like you and B-love who believe that the past had the best to offer and nothing new will ever be as good.

Of course, the new gaurd are just ignorant ****s. I personally believe that the best is yet to come but there is a good mix of best ever from recent times as well as ancient times (ancient being pre-1976 when I was born)

Hey junkie, why do you always type my name?

I never type your handle in posts. Come to think of it, I never think of you.

Yet, once a month, you type a post with my name in your post, even though I haven't posted in that thread yet??

[SouthStndJunkie]

I think when it is all said and done Champ will go down as one of the top five corners of all time. He is well on his way there right now.

Hall of Fame first ballot.

[Florida_Bronco]

Well that's pretty normal. I mean isn't a differing opinion by definition a belief that the original opinion isn't right? I mean how can you have a differing opinion than someone and not think they're wrong?

Now this is a great "owned" post. :rofl:

[SureShot]

OK, well after perusing some of the sites for stats I cant seem to find the one I want on Champ just to get an idea of how good he really is compared to his peers.

How many times has he been thrown at compared to the other "good" corners?

Champ leads the league in picks and passes defensed (tied with Asante Samuel in both categories, though others have as many PDs as those two).

Considering I can only recall at most 3 or 4 passes thrown in champs direction in any given game. Im going with an average of 4 attempts his way a game.

14 games * 4 = 56 passes thrown towards him.

19 have been defensed and 8 have been interception.

29 passes thrown to champ. Of those Id figure half were actually completed passes. or 14 passes.

There is a 14 percent chance Champ will pick off a pass. That seems like a high number to me.

There is a 34 percent chance Champ will defend the pass. Thats an insanely high number to me.

There is only a 23 percent chance the ball will be completed on Champ.

This going by an average of 4 pass attempts per game. Maybe my attempts per game are wrong, but I dont think they can be much more than that.

That kind of puts it into perspective of just how good this guy really is.



This is pretty interesting. Against the Broncos earlier this season, Tom Brady

attempted 55 passes. Only 3 were to Champ Bailey's direction.

[Triplelefthook]

Best corner in the league by far. I just watched Inside the NFL this week and they only had Merriman and Jason Taylor talked about as DPOY. Where is the respect for Champ>?

[dbroncos31]

Champ = God.

That kinda covers it.

[maher_tyler]

The best play ive seen so far is either the pick in the NE playoff game or the one vs NO a couple years ago when he ran from the other side of the endzone and picked it off touching both feet in bounds.

Yea i remember that pick...that was one of the most athletic/insane picks i've ever seen...full speed and still got both feet down!!!