Cutler vs. Iverson

[footstepsfrom#27]

All I've heard for 2 endless days now on ESPN is the AI trade story. Personally I'm a pretty lukewarm Nuggets fan, but it got me wondering who is the city of Denver most jazzed about right now...our future stud QB for the beloved Broncs, or one of the best to ever play in the NBA whose coming to the red headed stepchild Nuggets.

Vote please...not who YOU like or follow...it's a Bronco board so duh...Jay's the man. I want to know who you think MOST Denver sports fans are talking about more and pumped up about more right now.

Whose THE MAN in Denver these days?

[watermock]

The two don't have to fight each other, it should be fine.

Melo will just become less of the ball handler. As long as Iverson behaves I'm fine with it and Denver becomes a legitimate threat.

[BroncoMatt]

As far as athlete superstars in Denver the top 3 look like this

1. John Elway
2. Patrick Roy
3. Allen Iverson

AI is a huge pickup for the Nuggets and gives Denver credibility as a basketball city.

[Kaylore]

AI. I mean he's proven and is a superstar. Cutler will pass him though. ;D

[OrangeShadow]

i dont give,
a rats ass about the NBA
so its all, about cutler
its jay all the way


HO HO HO

[Jens1893]

As far as athlete superstars in Denver the top 3 look like this

1. John Elway
2. Patrick Roy
3. Allen Iverson

AI is a huge pickup for the Nuggets and gives Denver credibility as a basketball city.

Iverson over Sakic? I think you can make a good argument for Joe.

[BroncoMatt]

Iverson over Sakic? I think you can make a good argument for Joe.


AI has the edge in marketing and influence. Outside of hockey fans how many people have heard of Joe Sakic? Not to take anything away from Joe, he is a great player, but AI transcends the basketball world.

[Jens1893]

AI has the edge in marketing and influence. Outside of hockey fans how many people have heard of Joe Sakic? Not to take anything away from Joe, he is a great player, but AI transcends the basketball world.

If you take marketing into account it´s a no brainer, but when you look at what they´ve done as players on the rink/floor I think it´s close.

[Blart]

I know a Nugget player's name, so he's gotta be a big deal.

[Jens1893]

And as for the original question, I think it clearly has to be AI. Cutler is a very promising rookie with 3 career starts, AI is a former NBA MVP who has been one of the country´s biggest sports stars for almost a decade.

[BroncoFanatic]

As a Philly resident, I am glad I won't have to hear about that punk ass thug any more. In time, you basketball fans in Denver will learn to loath AI as much as people do around here. To Iverson: 4321~

[-Slap-]

AI has the edge in marketing and influence. Outside of hockey fans how many people have heard of Joe Sakic? Not to take anything away from Joe, he is a great player, but AI transcends the basketball world.

Only because he gets arrested a lot.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

People still watch the NBA?

[Arkansas Bronco]

Who knew the NHL was still around, thought that league died during the strike. ???

[-Slap-]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/englial01.html

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7802/alexenglish1wn3.jpg

[RhymesayersDU]

Right now it's Iverson.

But if Cutler wins this weekend against Cincy and gets us into the Playoffs, watch out for the full on hype machine to get fired up. Especially if he decides to let loose another 60 yard (in the air!) pass for a TD.

[chrisp]

I don't follow the NBA at all (following one US sport is hard enough!!) and I only found out about Iverson through this thread, so I can't really claim I'm in any kind of position to say which one Denver is buzzing over the most.....oh, yes, and i live In London, which is another small reason why I haven't got a clue.......

Having said that, I have to say that a young talent starting out and showing signs of greatness is certainly more exciting to me than a proven veteran moving over late in his career. Yes Iverson is a major star, but how many years does he have left? I'mnot suggesting that in football terms this is like Tony Dorsett coming here back in the 80's, but you have to say that a rookie on the threshold of a hall-of fame career is more exciting than a top player perhaps approaching the downside of his.

Obviously though, I can only really say what's getting ME excited (CUT-LER, CUT-LER!!!!), can't speak for anybody else......

[Turf Shaman]

I'm voting for Iverson just because this is a Bronco forum and the results will be slanted, but I don't feel even the slightest obligation to choose between the two.

[rad]

Does Cutler practice?

[Taco John]

The key difference between the two is one of them is going to deliver a championship, while the other is going to deliver nothing but headaches.

[OrangeShadow]

Does Cutler practice?

:spit: REP!

[freak6]

Rhymesayers is a pillow biter!!! ha ha haaa

[alkemical]

I dunno, now that AI is out of philly - there's no philly curse - he can bring them a title

[ZONA]

Mello and AI - hmm, will anybody else even get to touch the damn ball? All I can say is the Nuggets are damn lucky the blizzard hit because they were going to be hit by a heatwave in the form of the rolling Suns instead.

I like the Nuggest but the Suns are my team and they would roll the Nuggest, even with AI. Nobody can stop the likes of Nash, Amare, Marion and Diaw. What makes it work is that they share the ball. AI and Mellow - forget about it. The only thing they will share is the challenge of who will shoot more.

BUT - aside from that. DENVER is a Broncos city. Always has been and always will. The Nuggets could get Shaq, Kobe, AI, and King James and it would still be a Broncos Town. Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt, Jennifer Aniston and Julia Roberts could all be in town for a movie and the Broncos QB would still be the talk of the town. I like it that way. BRONCOS RULE. No doubt it my mind they are the best organization in the NFL.

[Turf Shaman]

If you take marketing into account it´s a no brainer, but when you look at what they´ve done as players on the rink/floor I think it´s close.

If you take what they've done as players, Sakic gets the clear edge. There shouldn't even be an argument about it. Sakic has two championships and could have won the Conn Smythe both times, and no one with an even rudimentary knowledge of hockey questions his greatness and his place in the history of the sport. The only reason Iverson has more publicity is because of how much more popular basketball is, and that's a pretty weak factor to look at IMO. Hopefully Iverson can do something here that brings him closer to accomplishing what Sakic has in his sport.

About the whole "practice" issue with Iverson, here are his thoughts on it:

"It's just blown all out of proportion. That was a day I wish honestly never happened. I didn't mean it like 'I don't care about practice' or anything like that, I'm just saying we are having a press conference and all you all want to talk about is practice. ... I couldn't have accomplished the things in my career if I didn't practice, and the worst part about that whole thing is when a kid comes up to me and says, 'Allen, I don't like practice, either,' I've got to straighten that kid right then."

It's a perfectly reasonable explanation. He was irritated he was talking about practice at a press conference and all the hipsters who like to make hip quips (this thread has a couple) ran with it.

George Karl is BIG on practice. The root of the blow up with Kmart was that Kmart wouldn't practice but wanted to play in games. Karl called Larry Brown and asked him about Iverson, and LB told him Iverson would practice for him.

But hey, no hipster should have any obligation to look at context, so quip away hipsters!

[broncofan]

Even though I'm not a Denver resident, nor am I a Nuggets fan, I voted for Cutler. I am a Sixers fan at heart, although I've found the NBA very tough to watch the past few years, so my knowledge of the league is a tad outdated. I'll take football over basketball any day of the week, so...it's Cutler over A.I. Not implying that was the question, but that's how I chose. Beyond that, I see the Iverson hype wearing off relatively quickly, but the Cutler hype will continue on.

[Rock Chalk]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/englial01.html

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7802/alexenglish1wn3.jpg

Never ceases to amaze me how many people either dont know or seem to forget that superstar.

He's definately top 3 in my book.

[Clockwork Orange]

Both.

[ZONA]

Never ceases to amaze me how many people either dont know or seem to forget that superstar.

He's definately top 3 in my book.

Top 3 what? I hope you're not refering to All Time. That would simply be a total homer outlook. I grew up watching Alex too and he was damn good but no way in hell is he top 3 of all time, that is, if you are indeed refering to that. Maybe, just maybe top 25.

[Master___Pain]

Never ceases to amaze me how many people either dont know or seem to forget that superstar.

He's definately top 3 in my book.

Outside of Denver, English was/is not all that well known, despite all his talent

[Turf Shaman]

Top 3 what? I hope you're not refering to All Time. That would simply be a total homer outlook. I grew up watching Alex too and he was damn good but no way in hell is he top 3 of all time, that is, if you are indeed refering to that. Maybe, just maybe top 25.

I think he was referring to top 3 in Denver sports history. He's certainly the greatest Nugget to date, and he's up there. These lists are always skewered by peoples preferences for certain sports though... For example some people would automatically place a basketball player above a hockey player just by virtue of the sport they play. All things even I'd put him after Sakic and Roy.

[Garcia Bronco]

NBA basket ball is lame

[Archie]

Broncos rule Denver.... Nuggets could trade for LeBron and it would not equal the "local" news on the Broncos. But - national media may differ. They don't get it :)

[Rock Chalk]

Top 3 what? I hope you're not refering to All Time. That would simply be a total homer outlook. I grew up watching Alex too and he was damn good but no way in hell is he top 3 of all time, that is, if you are indeed refering to that. Maybe, just maybe top 25.

Top 3 Broncos icons.

Alex English to date is the ONLY player in NBA history to have 2000 points in EIGHT STRAIGHT SEASONS. Whats more amazing is that he did this in the age of basketball that had Julius Irving, Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Kareem, Larry Bird, Dominque Wilkins just to name a few. He outscored all of above mentioned players in the 1980s because he scored more than anyone in that decade. Clearly the best player over the whole decade in teh NBA.

Others hae had more points in a season but no one was ever as consistent year in and year out.

When the Nuggets didnt resign him the year before he retired, I stopped being a Nuggets fan and will forever hate the franchise that screwed over the one player that made me a fan of basketball. Didnt help that they drafted Carmelo Anthony who I will never forgive for denying Hinrich and Collison a championship ring in college. ****ing syracuse.

Oh, and Alex English' throwback Nuggets jersey (this is directed at Master_Pain) is one of the biggest selling throwbacks so apparently people outside of Denver are giving him his due now.

[Rock Chalk]

I think he was referring to top 3 in Denver sports history. He's certainly the greatest Nugget to date, and he's up there. These lists are always skewered by peoples preferences for certain sports though... For example some people would automatically place a basketball player above a hockey player just by virtue of the sport they play. All things even I'd put him after Sakic and Roy.

I hate hockey so I wont put Sakic or Roy anywhere on any list.

Thats why everyones list is different.

Elway
Alex English
Floyd Little

Ad you can ask a hundred different people and get about 90 different top 3s.

[watermock]

The key difference between the two is one of them is going to deliver a championship, while the other is going to deliver nothing but headaches.

You think Vick is a coach killer? You haven't seen anything yet. Luckily, Karl has very thick skin and isn't easily rattled. Also, Melo is going to get even better looks because he won't have to handle the ball as much at small forward. I think it will work if AI doesn't act out.

But make no mistake...The Broncos rule Denver. The Nuggies and Av's make decent side dishes, nothing more. I remember going to a bar, it wasn't a sports bar, but the Av's Stanley Cup clincher was on and I was literally the only person even paying attention.

[elsid13]

How many non-cable national TV appearance will the Nuggets have with AI? How many national TV appearances will the Broncos have/had?

[watermock]

Alex English was so smooth he was deceptive...much like Louis Wright. The Sixers get three first rounders, but the NBA draft is even more hit and miss than the NFL.

AI is still in his prime for at least 4 more years because he's so explosive.

[Clockwork Orange]

When the Nuggets didnt resign him the year before he retired, I stopped being a Nuggets fan and will forever hate the franchise that screwed over the one player that made me a fan of basketball.

Oy vey.

That was when they were ushering in the Paul Westhead era (error would be a more accurate description) of basketball. They ditched mainstays like English and Fat Lever in order to rebuild the team to fit Westhead's "space age" style that he brought with him from Loyola Marymount.

It was a distaster of epic proportions.

One fatal flaw was that his system called for a full court press at all times. When done against young, timid college kids, it could be effective. When done against professionals, it became a slam dunk contest for the opposition. The Nuggets gave up an average of something like 132 points per game and had the Phoenix Suns once set an NBA record by putting up over 100 points on them in the first half.

And that was just the beginning of the hard times.

Alex English was a great player who (like several other great players of his time) get a bit lost in the shuffle due to the dominance of the Lakers & Celtics in the 80's. It shouldn't be overlooked that he was always a gentleman who represented himself and his team with class. How the Nuggets never found a spot for him on their coaching staff is beyond me.

[Turf Shaman]

I hate hockey so I wont put Sakic or Roy anywhere on any list.

Thats why everyones list is different.

Elway
Alex English
Floyd Little

Ad you can ask a hundred different people and get about 90 different top 3s.

I agree everyone would have a different list, but at the same time you can't deny the significance the Colorado Avalanche have had on the Colorado sports scene. Hating hockey is an opinion, pretending anything the Avs have done has no significance is ignorance. I’m not a baseball fan, and if there was an argument that a baseball fan could legitimately make that a Rockies player belonged in a top 5 list of greatest Colorado athletes, I’d acknowledge that I’m not qualified to properly judge the impact that player may have had.

[Clockwork Orange]

I agree everyone would have a different list, but at the same time you can't deny the significance the Colorado Avalanche have had on the Colorado sports scene. Hating hockey is an opinion, pretending anything the Avs have done has no significance is ignorance. I’m not a baseball fan, and if there was an argument that a baseball fan could legitimately make that a Rockies player belonged in a top 5 list of greatest Colorado athletes, I’d acknowledge that I’m not qualified to properly judge the impact that player may have had.

The Rockies haven't had a player who's been truly adored. They've had some outstanding players (Helton, Walker) and some who were pretty popular (Galarraga, Bichette), but none that have really captivated the region the way that guys like Elway or Roy did.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Neither.

It was Plummer's town until he **** the bed this year.
It was never an Avs town like 950 has tried to claim at times even when they were winning Cups, so it's not Sakic's.
The Rox? Who cares anymore?
Iverson just got here, so it's not his town.
Cutler's a rookie with 3 starts. It becomes his town if he takes them to the playoffs and wins a game on the road.

Right now, it's Melo's town.

[bendog]

Little ruled before any of these guys hit town. But why should I care whether Cutlett or 'the answer' gets more press?

[Turf Shaman]

The Rockies haven't had a player who's been truly adored. They've had some outstanding players (Helton, Walker) and some who were pretty popular (Galarraga, Bichette), but none that have really captivated the region the way that guys like Elway or Roy did.

I would think it would take some more playoff appearances before anyone from the Rockies could legitimately be considered. That's what matters to people.

[heydensmom]

Wow AI went to Denver.....what rock have I been under.

[Rock Chalk]

I agree everyone would have a different list, but at the same time you can't deny the significance the Colorado Avalanche have had on the Colorado sports scene. Hating hockey is an opinion, pretending anything the Avs have done has no significance is ignorance. I’m not a baseball fan, and if there was an argument that a baseball fan could legitimately make that a Rockies player belonged in a top 5 list of greatest Colorado athletes, I’d acknowledge that I’m not qualified to properly judge the impact that player may have had.

I dont know what the Avs have done. I dont watch Hockey. They won a championship, big deal. Its still just hockey. Baseball doesnt count as sport either so you are preaching to the choir. I wouldnt even put NBA up there but Alex was that awesome, at least to me. To this day he is still my favorite basketball player ever. It'd be different if Hockey was a major sport, but its a second tier sport with Soccer and Arena Football and the WNBA. I know hockey fans will not feel that way but if you put down your fanatic glasses and realize for a moment that most of America feels the way I do about hockey. Ice Dancing with sticks. ;D

I dont say this to infuriate hockey fans, or to diminish the athletes that play hockey only to exemplify that my list will not have ANY minor sport players on it. They dont transcend their sport.

How many non hockey fans could name the top 5 players ever in Hockey (in their opinion...hell how many could name 5 players period)? Conversely, how many non basketball fans could name the top 5 (in their opinion) players in NFL or NBA or MLB?

See my point?

A good percentage more of that I would be willing to bet.

[bendog]

jmo

orr
howe (the edler)
hull
roy
the little guy from edmunton or however you spell that cannuck cow town

[Turf Shaman]

I dont know what the Avs have done. I dont watch Hockey. They won a championship, big deal. Its still just hockey. Baseball doesnt count as sport either so you are preaching to the choir. I wouldnt even put NBA up there but Alex was that awesome, at least to me. To this day he is still my favorite basketball player ever. It'd be different if Hockey was a major sport, but its a second tier sport with Soccer and Arena Football and the WNBA. I know hockey fans will not feel that way but if you put down your fanatic glasses and realize for a moment that most of America feels the way I do about hockey. Ice Dancing with sticks. ;D

I dont say this to infuriate hockey fans, or to diminish the athletes that play hockey only to exemplify that my list will not have ANY minor sport players on it. They dont transcend their sport.

How many non hockey fans could name the top 5 players ever in Hockey (in their opinion...hell how many could name 5 players period)? Conversely, how many non basketball fans could name the top 5 (in their opinion) players in NFL or NBA or MLB?

See my point?

A good percentage more of that I would be willing to bet.

In America hockey is not a popular sport, I'm not denying that. But we're talking about Colorado sports figures, so it doesn't matter what Americans think. What matters is what Coloradoans think. Hockey is popular here, and I know that gives some people an itch they can't scratch. It's too bad for them, but it's true. It's not on the level of football, of course, but the Avs have been outdrawing the Nuggets in the same arena since they arrived (and when converted for basketball the arena can house more seats), and the television ratings have been much higher than either the Nuggets or the Rockies. Until recently, the Avs had the longest active sellout streak of ANY SPORT. The Iverson trade may catapult the Nuggets over the Avs in terms of popularity, but until this point, the Avs have had a solid hold as the number 2 team in Colorado. Again, it is pure ignorance to ignore the impact they have had on the Colorado sports scene just because you don’t like the sport. And it's not just the Avs, college hockey has been doing great here for 50 plus years and even the CHL franchise in Loveland has been a huge success. So I'd submit that when determining who the most significant sports figures in Colorado sports history have been, it makes no difference what Billy Joe Bob down in Arkansas thinks about hockey.

[Arkie]

http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/7802/alexenglish1wn3.jpg

I've been to two NBA games in my life. Once was Dallas vs. Denver in '85. Alex English and Fat Lever were playing. So was that guy with the mustache named Hanslick. It was like 122-121! DENVER!

[Kaylore]

This thread is hilarious.:rofl:

I'm convinced most of the people in this thread are arguing at least twelve different things.

I thought the question was "Who is the more talked about athlete in Denver right now?"

Somehow everyone thinks the question was something else like:

Who is the most talented athlete in Denver right now?

Who's "town" is this?

Who was the most talented Athlete in Denver ever?

Why isn't anyone talking about Alex English?

Is Alan Iverson going to get the Nuggets a championship?

Is NBA basketball worth watching?

How many non-cable national TV appearance will the Nuggets have with AI?

Does AI keep potential bail money on his person at all time?

:giggle: Boy what a funny thread. I think two people actually answered the question.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

:giggle: Boy what a funny thread. I think two people actually answered the question.

Doesn't help when the thread starter had one question at the end of his first post and a different question for the poll question.

[alkemical]

dumbest thing the avs did was let drury go.... Just my opinion only.

[Clockwork Orange]

Can Allen move mountains just by staring at them?

I didn't think so.

No brainer.

He doesn't have to stare at them, he can get his posse to move them for him. 8')

[footstepsfrom#27]

Doesn't help when the thread starter had one question at the end of his first post and a different question for the poll question.
It was the same question, simply phrased differently. I assumed people would actually read the initial post and the poll question also...and even if they didn't, the title ought to be a nice clue.

My bad.