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Billy Clyde Puckett
12-12-2006, 05:54 PM
Just heard on radio. For Tavares and two young pitchers. Tavares has speed and the hitting streak, but no power at all. A Juan Pierre clone?

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2006, 05:57 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2695473

**** the Monforts

24champ
12-12-2006, 06:15 PM
Rockies will battle the midgets for the NL West basement...

Billy Clyde Puckett
12-12-2006, 06:23 PM
Need a real owner/ownership group. How many businesses have the Monforts (and McMorris) driven into bankruptcy in the past.

Jens1893
12-12-2006, 06:25 PM
"This trade allows us to add three major league players to the roster as we continue our efforts to build a winner here in Colorado," Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd said.

Is this guy for real? Isnīt Jennings the best pitcher the Rockies have ever had?

Clockwork Orange
12-12-2006, 06:38 PM
Is this guy for real? Isnīt Jennings the best pitcher the Rockies have ever had?

He's for real in the fact that the Rockies made a three for one swap and yet still managed to cut payroll. This isn't a team to them, it's simply a business.

Jennings is just the first of several homegrown players who'll be dealt in the coming years because the Rockies don't want to pay them. The only way they'll stay is if they take less than market value like Francis did.

Garrett Atkins recently rejected a contract offer. Look for him to be next.

24champ
12-12-2006, 06:41 PM
Alright look Jennings is not a top-flight starter in the MLB and you guys got two good if not great pitching prospects and Taveras. Hirsh is an elite pitching prospect and Buchholz is a solid prospect. Plus you got a solid young CF in Taveras. To top it all off Jennings is going to be a Free agent next year. Astros got FLEECED IMO.

Pendejo
12-12-2006, 06:43 PM
Sweet deal. I greatly dislike the Rockies, and Jennings is a Madres killer. I'm glad they won't have to face him so regularly this year. The only way this would have worked out better is if he would have been sent packing to the AL.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2006, 06:47 PM
Need a real owner/ownership group. How many businesses have the Monforts (and McMorris) driven into bankruptcy in the past.

They're making plenty of money, they're just not willing to spend it on the Rox

Billy Clyde Puckett
12-12-2006, 06:54 PM
They're making plenty of money, they're just not willing to spend it on the Rox

I know that Herc. Just pointing out that they are inept as business managers.

Clockwork Orange
12-12-2006, 07:03 PM
Alright look Jennings is not a top-flight starter in the MLB and you guys got two good if not great pitching prospects and Taveras. Hirsh is an elite pitching prospect and Buchholz is a solid prospect. Plus you got a solid young CF in Taveras. To top it all off Jennings is going to be a Free agent next year. Astros got FLEECED IMO.

You're missing the point.

The Rockies, with all of their "Gen-R" bull****, have trying to sell the fans on the idea that they're building from within. The fans accepted this and have dealt with the bad to mediocre times that have come with it. Now that some of the homegrown talent is blossoming at the major league level, they're peddling them off for more prospects because they don't want to pay them. What do you think will happen if any of these kids they got in this deal turn out to be legit major leaguers? They'll turn around and deal them for more prospects to avoid having to pay them either, thus becoming nothing more than a farm team for the teams who do care about winning while sitting back and collecting fat revenue sharing checks from MLB.

It's a business to the Monforts, nothing more. Winning is not even a consideration to these people, turning a profit is. So long as they can draw 20,000 paid per night and collect welfare from the league, they have no need to put a winning product on the field. They're lining their pockets at the expense of a fanbase who've been plenty patient with them already.

I can't wait to see the spin piece from Tracy Ringolsby in which he tells us how this is such a great deal and how trading Jennings was absolutely necessary.

The Monforts are a ****ing joke.

Master___Pain
12-12-2006, 07:04 PM
I know that Herc. Just pointing out that they are inept as business managers.

They are good at grooming talent for other teams though! Just think, in a few years the young talent they got in this trade can be shipped off to the Yankees or Sox and start the cycle all over again. Yay!!

Hotrod
12-12-2006, 07:07 PM
I guess my Rockies boycott continues :nono:

Rascal
12-12-2006, 07:07 PM
My dad is pissed and just sent a letter to them to **** off and he will no longer be buying season tickets.

There is absolutely no reason to support this team and spend any $$ on it as it's evident that the owners and management don't.

Billy Clyde Puckett
12-12-2006, 07:08 PM
The three new players are making about 750,000 combined. Optimist says now they lock up Atkins and bring in another bat. Pessimist says "cheap b**tards"

Didn't catch who it was, but someone on the radio just speculated that this deal will lead to another with Tavares moving on.

DomCasual
12-12-2006, 07:23 PM
I hate this trade and I don't hate this trade.

I hate it for what it represents. It wasn't made to improve the team. It was made to save money. They have no credibility. They didn't have much, mind you. Now they have none.

I like the trade because it plugs a few holes that they team had. Taveras isn't going to make anyone forget about Willie Mays, but at least he can make some noise when he gets on base. Interesting that he is a Scott Boras client - so best case is that he plays well for us for a year or two and leaves for greener pastures.

I really like Hirsh. He's been the Astros best prospect, and he's had good control - he'll need it in Colorado. He just got his feet wet in the majors in 2006. The thing that worries me a bit is that he gave up a few too many home runs last year.

Don't know too much about Buchholz. I assume he'll be in the bullpen.

On a side note, did anyone see Kreiger's column about Monfort in Saturday's RMN? Monfort sounded like a petulant child. "These guys have no loyalty! We're such good people - they should take less to be around us!" He said that the Rockies would settle into a permanent salary level of about $70 million. He also said that this would be Hurdle and O'Dowd's last year if the team didn't perform - although he didn't really define the word "perform."

I wish I was a fan of the Yankees, or even the Mets. It sucks liking a team that is probably never going to do much winning.

DomCasual
12-12-2006, 07:26 PM
The Monforts are a ****ing joke.

Quoted for (sad) truth. I hate them - absolutely hate them.

DomCasual
12-12-2006, 07:31 PM
Sorry for the three posts in a row, but I just saw this quote from O'Dowd, and I had to share it:

"This was a trade we would have made whether Jason was in the last year of his contract or not," Rockies general manager Dan O'Dowd said. "Any time you get back three major league-ready players, it's very difficult to do in this environment, and this is the kind of baseball deal we will always have to make. Whether he had three years and 'X' amount of money left on his contract or he was entering his final year, we would have made this trade."

Right, Dan. What a joke.

Billy Clyde Puckett
12-12-2006, 07:51 PM
You know there are a half dozen, at least, very wealthy people in Denver that could buy the Rocks and turn them into a real team, but instead we end up with a couple of brothers whose only business experience is taking prime beef and chopping it into cheap hamburger. Ironic isn't it.

DomCasual
12-12-2006, 08:12 PM
You know there are a half dozen, at least, very wealthy people in Denver that could buy the Rocks and turn them into a real team, but instead we end up with a couple of brothers whose only business experience is taking prime beef and chopping it into cheap hamburger. Ironic isn't it.

No kidding. I remember hearing a rumor a few years ago that Kroenke sent out feelers about the Rockies. The Monforts wouldn't even talk with him about it. He'd be a guy I'd love to get in there. He doesn't spend crazy money, but he's such a competitive guy, by nature. He wouldn't be able to sleep at night doing what the Monforts do.

24champ
12-12-2006, 08:27 PM
You're missing the point.

The Rockies, with all of their "Gen-R" bull****, have trying to sell the fans on the idea that they're building from within. The fans accepted this and have dealt with the bad to mediocre times that have come with it. Now that some of the homegrown talent is blossoming at the major league level, they're peddling them off for more prospects because they don't want to pay them. What do you think will happen if any of these kids they got in this deal turn out to be legit major leaguers? They'll turn around and deal them for more prospects to avoid having to pay them either, thus becoming nothing more than a farm team for the teams who do care about winning while sitting back and collecting fat revenue sharing checks from MLB.

It's a business to the Monforts, nothing more. Winning is not even a consideration to these people, turning a profit is. So long as they can draw 20,000 paid per night and collect welfare from the league, they have no need to put a winning product on the field. They're lining their pockets at the expense of a fanbase who've been plenty patient with them already.

I can't wait to see the spin piece from Tracy Ringolsby in which he tells us how this is such a great deal and how trading Jennings was absolutely necessary.

The Monforts are a ****ing joke.

Just trying to put a positive spin on it...but I say the rockies might as well start loading up the farm system like everyone else in the NL West is pretty much doing. Your not going to compete with the likes of the D-backs, Dodgers, and maybe the Padres for awhile because of their farm systems are loaded with talent. Giants are really going to fall back on hard times real soon. As far as the Ownership/Management goes for the Rockies goes maybe your right but the 70 million dollar self imposed cap is not going to compete against anyone in a FA period, which is why the farm system is the way to go. Going cheap is not necessarily a bad thing though, just look at the Marlins. If I was the Rockies I would trade Helton for some prospects. This trade is good for the Rockies Clock-

"I wouldn't have traded Hirsh for Jennings straight up," one executive said

Hirsh could be a real good Ace in the future, something Jennings wouldn't have been. Jennings is a solid pitcher but not a great pitcher to cry about.

WABronco
12-12-2006, 09:52 PM
Alright look Jennings is not a top-flight starter in the MLB and you guys got two good if not great pitching prospects and Taveras. Hirsh is an elite pitching prospect and Buchholz is a solid prospect. Plus you got a solid young CF in Taveras. To top it all off Jennings is going to be a Free agent next year. Astros got FLEECED IMO.

Yea and it's not even close, IMO. Jennings is a middle-of-the-rotation guy who's future asking price will undoubtedly be more than he is worth.

Hirsh is Houston's top prospect. Bucholz is a solid youngster with ML experience. Taveras is probably an upgrade over what COL currently has.

Disagree with the idea or purpose for the trade all you want, but the fact is the Rox aren't exactly a cash-cow franchise (right?). They just spun a no. 3 starter for a no. 1 pitching prospect, another solid pitching prospect, and a CF'er who's probably going to start immediately. All those players are still years away from arby and will all be making pennies.

I can understand the dislike towards the ownership for BS'ing their fanbase--it's the same way up here in Seattle--but this trade, in isolation, is simply excellent.

24champ
12-12-2006, 10:05 PM
Yea and it's not even close, IMO. Jennings is a middle-of-the-rotation guy who's future asking price will undoubtedly be more than he is worth.


Exactly, when you have guys like Meche and Lilly making waaaaay too much money this offseason and getting waaaaay more than they are worth then that makes this trade so much more better.

Hercules Rockefeller
12-12-2006, 10:22 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4826602

Says Jennings turned down 3 years for $24.5M and a club option

Clockwork Orange
12-12-2006, 10:27 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4826602

Says Jennings turned down 3 years for $24.5M and a club option

Yeah, the Rockies claimed they offered Jeff Suppan $21 million over 3 years, too.

I didn't believe that either.

WABronco
12-12-2006, 10:29 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/ci_4826602

Says Jennings turned down 3 years for $24.5M and a club option

Considering Adam Eaton got the same amount as a FA, I don't blame Jennings for turning it down.

Miguel Batista is making more than that.

Bronco LB 59
12-12-2006, 10:42 PM
Hirsh alone makes this trade worthwhile for the Rockies. 6-8, 245 pound flamethrower with good command of a 97 mph fastball but has the ability to sink it and generate groundballs with it.

Houston fans hate this trade today. They were hoping to have Hirsh be their firm #2 to Oswalt for the next five years.

I know Colorado fans think management is being cheap, but the current state of the market in baseball is outrageous. Due to the market conditions, the Rockies had to take a chance to get better next year.

Jason Jennings types are a dime a dozen in baseball. Jason Hirsh type talents are not.

Bronco LB 59
12-12-2006, 10:45 PM
Wily Taveras is tailormade for that ballpark. Huge shot in the arm for the Rockies pitching staff.

24champ
12-12-2006, 10:53 PM
Reading some of the scouting reports on Hirsh and seriously Rock fans should be jumping joy and singing kumbya over this trade...

DomCasual
12-13-2006, 12:10 AM
It's like I said in an earlier post. The trade itself doesn't bother me as much as the concept behind the trade. It's not a bad trade, player-wise. But it's offensive for O'Dowd to call it anything but what it is - a salary dump. And it's a sign of things to come. If any of the three players they picked up today pan out, they will follow Jennings out of town. For that matter, Atkins and Holliday will end up somewhere else. It's pathetic.

WABronco
12-13-2006, 12:43 AM
Hirsh alone makes this trade worthwhile for the Rockies. 6-8, 245 pound flamethrower with good command of a 97 mph fastball but has the ability to sink it and generate groundballs with it.

Houston fans hate this trade today. They were hoping to have Hirsh be their firm #2 to Oswalt for the next five years.

I know Colorado fans think management is being cheap, but the current state of the market in baseball is outrageous. Due to the market conditions, the Rockies had to take a chance to get better next year.

Jason Jennings types are a dime a dozen in baseball. Jason Hirsh type talents are not.

Perfectly stated.

-Slap-
12-13-2006, 02:57 AM
I can understand Rockies' fans being angry, given their track record, but they really did pretty well in this deal. Taveras plays Gold Glove caliber defense and he can flat out fly. The Rocks have needed a guy like this in center since Pierre was here. On the negative side, he's still developing offensively and Boras is his agent.

Hirsh is Houston's best pitching prospect in years and he should make a solid impact in 2008 and beyond. Bucholz is a solid prospect in his own right and he had some promising moments with the big club last year.