I'll say it again. Jay gives us our best chance to win.

[Blueflame]

But, the implication still being that Plummer hasn't had much problem with them.

Jay is 0 -1. :P
Most years, the Broncos don't have much of a problem with the Bolts... historically, they've kinda been the doormat of the division.

Actually, Jay hasn't played the Bolts at home yet... ;)


So, both QBs need a defense to win games? Got it. ;D
Every QB in the league needs a defense to win games... but they also need to put points up on the board every chance they get and protect the football. Too many mistakes will kill any team's chances of winning, against any other team, but particularly against a quality opponent.

Or, we could just take what DID happen, as opposed to what you THINK might have happened.

Points scored first game: 27

Points scored second game: 20

;D
There's no guarantee that the second game... on the road, with the Bolts' defense healthier... would have gone exactly the same for Plummer had he played. It's all pure speculation as to what one *thinks* might have happened. The one thing Plummer was not in '06 was "consistent"... his numbers were all over the map. While he might have looked like Brady out there, it's equally possible that he might have looked like Grossman.

[watermock]

This has become comical. Jay allready has a better rating and TD/INT ratio.

He got thrown into the fire against two divisional leaders. The mastadon's falling one by one into the tar pit don't seem to understand that Jake PLAYED HIS WAY OUT OF A JOB. The plan wasn't to start Jay this year whatsoever. You want to know who lost the Seattle game? COYER went into a prevent in a tie game with two minutes to go. We had them at the 15 and let them waltz down the field for the winning field goal.

San Diego might be the most complete and dominant team in the NFL right now. 11-2 doesn't lie.

If anyone cares to notice, Cutler had a 97 rating and 2/0 ratio last week on the road against a fine defense.

mock as Yoda: Patient we shall be for now for many things are changing around us and need we must see them.

[watermock]

I have no clue what Dennison was thinking by not doubling the Roidinator. He's an LT clone. You don't take away his edge rush he's going to kill the QB. Luckily, he made clean hits. Not giving Jay extra protection on that side was idiotic.

With this pass protection, I just pray that he's not carted off the field.

Jesus Christ. You have a dominant pass rusher and a rookie LT covering for an injured vet and you give the Roidinator single coverage?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Here's one...

In their common game... the team scored 27 points, which is more than the 20 points we scored with Jay last Sunday.



ROFL!

Nice job Popps!! You really have reached the bottom of the barrel in your defense of Jake if you've resorted to word usage like this in a vain attempt to make a point. That's right, THE TEAM scored 27 points because Darrent took one back. What exactly was Jake's role in that touchdown? THE OFFENSE, which is a common unit that both Jake and Jay are a part of, scored 20 points apiece. However the rookie did it on the road against the healthier defense.

[Popps]

ROFL!

Nice job Popps!! You really have reached the bottom of the barrel in your defense of Jake if you've resorted to word usage like this in a vain attempt to make a point.

"Bottom of the barrel?"

"Defense of Jake"

Let me help you a bit....

Agree. Jake jumped the shark, to some extent. The pressure of the whole thing got to him. Could he have turned it around? Hard to say, but odd are... probably not.


I think that's how most of us felt. I personally would have like to see the move a week or so earlier


Jay is our best chance to win in the future

Again, I thought the switch was the way to go.

Those are my words from this very page. Does that sound like "defending Jake?" Maybe someone at home can help you read these posts in the future so you don't miss glaring, obvious lines like these in favor of selective plucking for name-calling purposes.

THE OFFENSE, which is a common unit that both Jake and Jay are a part of, scored 20 points apiece.

Wow, so they accounted for the same amount of points?

Good thing Jay gave us a "better chance to win now," huh?

Hilarious!

Get your stuff together and we can try this again when you know what it even is you're saying. I'd suggest cooling off a bit, leaving the name-calling alone and realizing that maybe this isn't a 100% black and white issue.

[Popps]

Every QB in the league needs a defense to win games... but they also need to put points up on the board every chance they get and protect the football. Too many mistakes will kill any team's chances of winning, against any other team, but particularly against a quality opponent..

Sure, which is why Jay is the obvious choice for the future of this team... and why Shanahan chose to risk throwing a playoff spot away to groom him.

He took a calculated risk and it didn't pay off in the short term.

It WILL pay off in the long term.

Let's just not play fantasy-land about this move being implemented to help us "win now." The kid hadn't even taken a snap from our starting center, which is quite obvious.

He'll be fine, and I couldn't be happier that he's our future.

[Taco John]

You want to know who lost the Seattle game? COYER went into a prevent in a tie game with two minutes to go.


Actually, we weren't in the prevent there. I heard an interview with one of the players, and they laughed at the idea that we were in the prevent there. Said fans didn't know what they were looking at if they thought we were in the prevent. It was either Champ or Darrent.

[Popps]

Actually, we weren't in the prevent there. I heard an interview with one of the players, and they laughed at the idea that we were in the prevent there. Said fans didn't know what they were looking at if they thought we were in the prevent. It was either Champ or Darrent.

Can't recall, but it looked like our normal cover 2.

You can't blame people for wanting to get aggressive at those times, considering how we've been burned.

It's a "die with your boots on" kind of thing.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Wow, Popps got caught with his slick wording and got defensive. Decides to make a reading comprehension jab at me and then claims I was the one doing the name calling. Point out what name I called you. If you actually think I called you a name, you're probably the one who needs to have someone at home explain what was posted.

[Taco John]

Can't recall, but it looked like our normal cover 2.

You can't blame people for wanting to get aggressive at those times, considering how we've been burned.

It's a "die with your boots on" kind of thing.

I do know that people were in position to make a play on every down of it.

[Taco John]

Wow, Popps got caught with his slick wording and got defensive. Decides to make a reading comprehension jab at me and then claims I was the one doing the name calling. Point out what name I called you. If you actually think I called you a name, you're probably the one who needs to have someone at home explain what was posted.



That part confused me. I didn't see any name calling.

[Kaylore]

Points scored first game: 27

Points scored second game: 20
I can't believe you're trying to draw this ridicules conclusion.

If you think facing a Merriman and Castillo-less Charger team at home is the same as facing them at full health in their house, you must be pulling a Mock and posting drunk.

The Chargers have held opponents to 17 points a game at home, and thirteen when they are healthy.

I'd also like to add that Plummer scored none of those 27 points, though he did manage to fumble the ball on a key third down and throw an interception. One of them was caused by the defense, so what you have is really:

Plummer's offense at home against a weakened Chargers: 20 points

Cutler's offense on the road against a full strength Chargers: 20 points.

[epicSocialism4tw]

My beef is only with the one-dimensional crowd around here that has seen nothing but the QB position all season long, and now suddenly sees all of these other holes now that "their" guy is playing QB. (See, because people who didn't want Jay to start as early as they did are against Jay.)
Oh, that... and the feeble attempts at justifying this "best chance to win now" comedy routine.
Jay is our best chance to win in the future, but he didn't do squat to improve our chances of winning now. Facts have been established in that regard.

It's amazing how many people have jumped on the bandwagon that you, me, and several other Bronco fans here have been driving for a long time.

They fought so hard against the opinion that the QB was not the major problem with this team, and then they were so willing to look past the QB once they got their shiny object to behold.

Here's to the bandwagon!

[watermock]

If you think facing a Merriman and Castillo-less Charger team at home is the same as facing them at full health in their house, you must be pulling a Mock and posting drunk.


Your such a self important tin god you wouldn't know **** from shinola without a magnifying glass. When did I say getting Merriman wouldn't help their D. I said we should of had someone to chip him to the inside dumbass.

As far as threads go, this is worthless. This is the most idiotic thread I have ever seen on one topic.

[Kaylore]

Your such a self important tin god you wouldn't know **** from shinola without a magnifying glass.

As far as threads go, this is worthless. This is the mort idiotic threat I have ever seen.

LOL Are you saying you don't post drunk?

[REB]

Lol

[Taco John]

They fought so hard against the opinion that the QB was not the major problem with this team, and then they were so willing to look past the QB once they got their shiny object to behold.




hahaha! Nobody fought against the idea that there weren't other problems on this team. We just fought against the idea that the QB wasn't a major problem. He was.

I've been willing to look at other problems all season long. But in the first half of the season, none of the other problems surfaced. You sure as hell weren't raising any of them.

[watermock]

LOL Are you saying you don't post drunk?

I'm saying your a self important tin god. Didn't you read the post? You took it abon your childish behaviors to refer me to a totally unrelated post which I take exception to. Buy a vowel.

You pulled a random insult out of your ass and don't expect me to respond? Sometime I do, sometimes I don't. I'm not even involved in this thread but you felt the need to insult me, so STFU.

[watermock]

And FU too REB.

Do you have four LLC's?

[Taco John]

Did you know that "self important tin god" is an anagram of "A friend tongs limp tot?"

[watermock]

http://www.uncleodiescollectibles.com/img_lib/Johnny%20Carson%2036%201-24-5.jpg

"I didn't know or see that..."

[watermock]

BTW my late father looked very much like the Great PooBah. Karnac or whatever.

[Popps]

Wow, Popps got caught with his slick wording and got defensive.

Look kid, like I said... figure out exactly what it is that you're saying, then we can debate.

You ran in here, stumbling over yourself to call people names and got blasted off the thread because you couldn't be bothered to read the posts.

Unbunch those panties, cool off... and we'll try again when you can make sense.

[Taco John]

if there was an extra "U" in there, that would be pretty gross.

I was thinking about a mushy tater tot, but upon a second read, I've got some serious questions about Kaylore now.

[Popps]

hahaha! Nobody fought against the idea that there weren't other problems on this team.


Mmmm..... people came close, including yourself.

I mean, I never heard a PEEP about our D-line from you until Jay took his first snap. Suddenly, it's become an emergency situation.

Meanwhile, anyone who pointed out those flaws earlier... including BEFORE JAKE PLUMMER GOT TO TOWN were just labeled Plummer homers, and their opinions were discounted.


Hey man, I told you that when Jay took over... we'd be having these exact discussions. (How are we going to build a winning team around Jay, etc.)

We've had issues as large or larger than the QB problem for years, now.

My stance has been, simply.... that I believe a couple of top flight guys in the front seven could have been enough to push us from the AFCCG to the Superbowl. Whereas, while I certainly realize we could upgrade at QB, I didn't believe a QB upgrade would result in that same bump.

That's just a philosophy thing. I believe that most champions are built from the defense on up, and you've got a history of NFL champs that support the notion that so-so offenses can win it all, but rarely if ever does a so-so defense.

I've also stated in explicit terms that Jake Plummer is an average QB that happens to be very productive in our system. (Used to be.)

How anyone with a 3rd grade reading level or above takes that as me being a "Plummer homer" is beyond me.

[Taco John]

Here is a question:

If Jay gives us the best chance to win how many people still think this team can make the playoffs? Keep inmind we were right in the mix when Jay took over.

I had a pm exchange with an avid "Jay gives us the best chance to win supporter" and I was surprised they were willing to step up and make a friendly wager on the Broncos making it. Personally I don't seeing us making it in at this point but I did see us sneaking in before the Seatle game.

Anybody else?



We're going to the playoffs, Meck. And you're going to owe me beer! :)

[Popps]

We're going to the playoffs, Meck. And you're going to owe me beer! :)

The problem is, nothing is ever definitive with this stuff.

If we go to the playoffs, maybe get busted out in the first round. Does that mean he was our best chance to win? I think everyone said that's what Jake would have done.

It's just all speculation. Jake could have sucked, he could have bounced back.

Jay could suck the rest of the season, he could turn in a great finish.

None of us know. I don't even think Shanahan knows.

I just hope you're right. I don't care if we supposedly not good enough to win a SB. I want my team in the playoffs. Call me crazy.

[Kaylore]

They fought so hard against the opinion that the QB was not the major problem with this team, and then they were so willing to look past the QB once they got their shiny object to behold.
More revisionist history here.

1. Fact: Early in the season the Defense wasn't the problem. The offense generally and quarterback specifically were the problem. In fact I don't remember either of you saying our defense needed help when we were destroying the Rams, Patriots and Ravens offense. It was just a lot of "It's not all Jake" and "Give him more time" arguments.

2. Fact: Everyone on this board including most of the people supporting Cutler starting have wanted the front office to get some help on the defensive line for going on three years. You can pretend that only you and Popps were "wise enough to see this" but don't fool yourselves into thinking that people that wanted help at the defensive line is limited to some of the Plummer supporters and that if think Cutler is better then you also believe the team is perfect now that he's starting. I mean what a stupid thing to say. Is anyone suggesting that?

I'll say it again, we had the ability to make a change at QB in the middle of the season when our old one wasn't cutting it. Naturally there was a push to do so. We don't have the ability to make a change at defensive tackle or end.

[Mile High Mojoe]

More revisionist history here.

1. Fact: Early in the season the Defense wasn't the problem. The offense generally and quarterback specifically were the problem. In fact I don't remember either of you saying our defense needed help when we were destroying the Rams, Patriots and Ravens offense. It was just a lot of "It's not all Jake" and "Give him more time" arguments.

2. Fact: Everyone on this board including most of the people supporting Cutler starting have wanted the front office to get some help on the defensive line for going on three years. You can pretend that only you and Popps were "wise enough to see this" but don't fool yourselves into thinking that people that wanted help at the defensive line is limited to some of the Plummer supporters and that if think Cutler is better then you also believe the team is perfect now that he's starting. I mean what a stupid thing to say. Is anyone suggesting that?

I'll say it again, we had the ability to make a change at QB in the middle of the season when our old one wasn't cutting it. Naturally there was a push to do so. We don't have the ability to make a change at defensive tackle or end.^5

[REB]

And FU too REB.

Do you have four LLC's?

Ha! Will do Mock, will do :welcome:

LLC's?

1-2-3-:Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[Taco John]

Mmmm..... people came close, including yourself.

I mean, I never heard a PEEP about our D-line from you until Jay took his first snap. Suddenly, it's become an emergency situation.


That's because you have selective reading. People have been complaining about the D-line since at least the Indy game. Nobody ever denied that our defense had some serious flaws after that game.


Meanwhile, anyone who pointed out those flaws earlier... including BEFORE JAKE PLUMMER GOT TO TOWN were just labeled Plummer homers, and their opinions were discounted.


What kind of filling do you like to stuff these straw man statements with? When I'm stuffing a straw man, I like to use plastic bags. I find that straw retains water, making them heavy, where plastic bags shed the water, and keep the straw man light. It technically isn't still a straw man, but just for the sake of it, I still call it a straw man... Now where were we... Oh yeah, you were making stuff up. Now who again belittled you for saying we needed to upgrade our defensive line? Ha! (Come on! Who's going to believe that!?)



Hey man, I told you that when Jay took over... we'd be having these exact discussions. (How are we going to build a winning team around Jay, etc.)

What are you talking about? It's game two. Jay has shown a lot of promise, but the offense hasn't achieved any consistency yet. We're not going to really know until next season.


We've had issues as large or larger than the QB problem for years, now.

I know. I told you this back in the Griese days when you were telling me that all we needed to do was change our QB and then count the superbowls. I never once thought we solved all of those problems. Hell, we barely solved the receiver problem this year. The offensive line still isn't great at pass protection. We still don't have a real fullback. And that's just the offensive side of hte ball. I don't know where you got the idea that I have only been concerned about the QB position, just because I was concerned about the QB position. Yes, it was my number one concern, but hardly my only one.


My stance has been, simply.... that I believe a couple of top flight guys in the front seven could have been enough to push us from the AFCCG to the Superbowl. Whereas, while I certainly realize we could upgrade at QB, I didn't believe a QB upgrade would result in that same bump.

So how are we going to get that upgrade in October/November/December on the front line? And remind me again why you are taking it out on the people who support the QB switch rather than actually going after the folks responsible for using our draft picks to move up the board and take a replacement quarterback when we needed a DT/DE to get the Superbowl bump you're looking for? You're trying to have your cake and eat it too, because on one hand you say you don't blame Shanahan for using our resources to find a replacement for Jake, and on the other you're saying that an upgrade up front would have given us the bump we needed to be competitive for years.


I've also stated in explicit terms that Jake Plummer is an average QB that happens to be very productive in our system. (Used to be.)

How anyone with a 3rd grade reading level or above takes that as me being a "Plummer homer" is beyond me.


For the same reason that me making hte same arguments you're making now made me a Griese homer. Congratulations. You now see how I felt when you were calling me a Griese homer for making nearly the same arguments that you're making now back then.

[baja]

I'm saying your a self important tin god. Didn't you read the post? You took it abon your childish behaviors to refer me to a totally unrelated post which I take exception to. Buy a vowel.

You pulled a random insult out of your ass and don't expect me to respond? Sometime I do, sometimes I don't. I'm not even involved in this thread but you felt the need to insult me, so STFU.

Did you know there 3 vowels in the word vowel!

[Blueflame]

More revisionist history here.

1. Fact: Early in the season the Defense wasn't the problem. The offense generally and quarterback specifically were the problem. In fact I don't remember either of you saying our defense needed help when we were destroying the Rams, Patriots and Ravens offense. It was just a lot of "It's not all Jake" and "Give him more time" arguments.

2. Fact: Everyone on this board including most of the people supporting Cutler starting have wanted the front office to get some help on the defensive line for going on three years. You can pretend that only you and Popps were "wise enough to see this" but don't fool yourselves into thinking that people that wanted help at the defensive line is limited to some of the Plummer supporters and that if think Cutler is better then you also believe the team is perfect now that he's starting. I mean what a stupid thing to say. Is anyone suggesting that?

I'll say it again, we had the ability to make a change at QB in the middle of the season when our old one wasn't cutting it. Naturally there was a push to do so. We don't have the ability to make a change at defensive tackle or end.


One minor addition I'd mention is that special teams have also been a problem all season long... we've been consistently losing the field position battle, usually starting our drives inside our own 20 while the other team starts around their 30 or 40.

[epicSocialism4tw]

hahaha! Nobody fought against the idea that there weren't other problems on this team. We just fought against the idea that the QB wasn't a major problem. He was.

I wasnt expecting you to lie about it.

I've been willing to look at other problems all season long. But in the first half of the season, none of the other problems surfaced. You sure as hell weren't raising any of them.


You can research my early season posts and find several other issues highlighted outside of QB play.

Among them: play calling, TE deficiencies, WR deficiencies, OL deficiencies, RB deficiencies, Run game deficiencies, pass blocking deficiencies, and the lack of any sort of pass rush whatsoever.

[Popps]

You can pretend that only you and Popps were "wise enough to see this" but don't fool yourselves into thinking that people that wanted help at the defensive line is limited to some of the Plummer supporters

He didn't say that.

Furthermore, I saw a lot less of these supposed "Plummer supperters" than I did people who were irrationally blaming the team's woes entirely on him.

I mean, you had to read it... those posts claiming that Cutler would instantly spark the offense and therefore the defense would improve.

Our defense looks worse than it has in years.

You are correct... some people were calling for defensive improvements AND QB improvements. But, some weren't, and I think we can all identify them by now, for what that's worth.

I liked improving the QB position, but have been saying since the Griese years that we needed to improve the defense, specifically the front seven.

That didn't change this year. I said the same thing. Only this year, the QB-obsessed decided that anyone who talked about anything other than Jake was a "homer."

[elsid13]

Gee whiz the whole crap about Plummer and Cutler needs to end, Shanahan made his decision now live with it.... this is getting riducales, next thing you know people will be complaining why we let Berry go

[usedupbraids]

I'll say it again.Ryan Leaf gives us our best chance to win.http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/9536/bummmqn1.png

[Popps]

For the same reason that me making hte same arguments you're making now made me a Griese homer..

Yea, the only difference was... I was also calling for D-line improvements back then, AS WELL AS QB improvements.

We made the QB improvement and went on a tear of wins only surpassed by Elway.

So, dumping Griese proved the right thing to do for the offense.

Too bad we never made any real strides on defense.



So, let's review...

-You aligned yourself with a non-winning QB and poo-poo'd all other probs.

-I've been calling for team-wide improvements since about 1999.


Not really the same.

But, I feel fine... thanks for asking.

[usedupbraids]

Gee whiz the whole crap about Plummer and Cutler needs to end, Shanahan made his decision now live with it.... this is getting riducales, next thing you know people will be complaining why we let Berry go

Hey loser bronco fans like us need something to talk about so shhhhhhh :yayaya:

[epicSocialism4tw]

2. Fact: Everyone on this board including most of the people supporting Cutler starting have wanted the front office to get some help on the defensive line for going on three years. You can pretend that only you and Popps were "wise enough to see this" but don't fool yourselves into thinking that people that wanted help at the defensive line is limited to some of the Plummer supporters and that if think Cutler is better then you also believe the team is perfect now that he's starting. I mean what a stupid thing to say. Is anyone suggesting that?

You are the one making those sort of inferences. Not me. My premise is this, and I'll make it simple: the defensive line is problema numero uno and has been for years.

[Rohirrim]

One minor addition I'd mention is that special teams have also been a problem all season long... we've been consistently losing the field position battle, usually starting our drives inside our own 20 while the other team starts around their 30 or 40.

Also, at least I believe, if Courtney had stayed healthy this season, the D line wouldn't have been the issue it's become. I think he would have made that big a difference.

[Taco John]

Yea, the only difference was... I was also calling for D-line improvements back then, AS WELL AS QB improvements.

You see, that's not a difference. When something is the same, it's not different. And there's no way you were louder about the defensive line than you were about Brian Griese. You just simply weren't. You felt then, like I did now, that we were going nowhere with the qb that we had at the time.


So, let's review...

-You aligned yourself with a non-winning QB and poo-poo'd all other probs.

Which is a lie. The statement doesn't even make sense actually. If I aligned myself with Griese, then wasn't I calling out other problems outside the QB position. You're confusing yourself dude. Hard to keep up with all these lies, I understand.

-I've been calling for team-wide improvements since about 1999.

Which every body else has too.

[usedupbraids]

http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/4594/evergiveuphf6.png

[Popps]

The statement doesn't even make sense actually. .

You're correct, I misspoke.

I think you understood the intent, but if not, I'll make it clear...

1. When Griese was QB, every area of the team needed addressing... according to you. (Except Griese, of course.)

2. When Plummer was the QB, you poo-poo'd every other concern.

and a bonus....

3. Now that Jay is QB, we have other team concerns again.

Wow! :thumbs:

[Popps]

You are the one making those sort of inferences. Not me. My premise is this, and I'll make it simple: the defensive line is problema numero uno and has been for years.

Same for me.

But, that just makes you a (insert whatever QB is starting here) homer.

I wonder how long until we're Cutler homers?

It'll happen. Watch.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Look kid, like I said... figure out exactly what it is that you're saying, then we can debate.

You ran in here, stumbling over yourself to call people names and got blasted off the thread because you couldn't be bothered to read the posts.

Unbunch those panties, cool off... and we'll try again when you can make sense.

You still think I called you a name? Jesus, even TJ jumped in and said he had no idea where your name calling idea came from. I asked you to quote the part of my post where I called you a name, but you couldn't even do that. If you're going to accuse me of that, man up and quote it. Since you can't post what name I called you, I can only assume that you have no response to my point since you went and attacked me.

I'll explain what I said for you since it appears that my original post went over your head. If you need someone in the room to decipher what I've written, please feel free to go get help.

Here we go, the part of Popps' post that I quoted:

Here's one...

In their common game... the team scored 27 points, which is more than the 20 points we scored with Jay last Sunday.


Now Popps has always been one to make sure that he points out that Jake can't be blamed for defensive woes. No argument from me, those are two separate sides of the ball. One side has no control over the play of the other. However, if one can't be blamed for the deficiecies on one side of the ball, would it not be logically consistent to say that they shouldn't be given credit either. In this case, Popps would like to point out that the team scored 27 points against the Bolts when Jake was under center, and only 20 when Jay was the QB. However, the defense scored one of those TDs in the game @Invesco. That therefore proves his point that Jay does not necessarily give the Broncos the best chance to win. But if he were to make a logically consistent argument with his past defense of Jake and not allowing him to take any blame for defensive failures, he'd also have to omit the defensive TD scored by Darrent. Jake nor Jay have any control over Darrent's play, good or bad. Between the QB's, you can compare how the offense did. In this case, we have a 10-year vet and a rookie who both put up 20 points on the Bolts. Popps believes that this means Jay does not give the Broncos the best chance to win, when in fact it makes no point one way or the other since they both led the offense to the same number of points in their common opponent.

What we have is Popps trying to get by by making an argument about the QBs, but including a TD that neither QB has control over, and attempting to say it strengthens his argument about who has the best opportunity to win. He got caught with his clever wording, and someone called him on it. As a result Popps has responded with: don't call me names when he was called no names, you need to learn to read better and get someone to help you, your panties are in a wad, and apparently I was blasted off this thread.

There 'ya go, if that's too confusing for you and you still don't understand the point, I'd blame your teachers.

[Taco John]

I'm going to post this again, and I expect it to be ignored... But I'm hoping people will make note of it.

Popps, can you give us any insight on why you are taking it out on the people who support the QB switch rather than actually going after the folks responsible for using our draft picks to move up the board and take a replacement quarterback when we needed a DT/DE to get the Superbowl bump you're looking for?

On one hand you say you don't blame Shanahan for using our resources to find a replacement for Jake, and on the other you're saying that an upgrade up front would have given us the bump we needed to be competitive for years.

Any insight you can give us on why you haven't had the balls to actually call Shanahan on the carpet publically about any of this. Don't you think it's wierd that Shanahan makes moves that support my point of view, and yet you've got nothing but words of praise for him, all while telling me that I've been nothing but wrong? I mean, virtually nobody here thought that we were going to take a quarterback this last draft, except for myself and Herc.

[Popps]

You still think I called you a name? Jesus, even TJ jumped in and said he had no idea where your name calling idea came from. .

Dude, don't jump in the middle of something with some **** like...

... Nice job Popps!! You really have reached the bottom of the barrel in your defense of Jake if you've resorted to word usage like this in a vain attempt to make a point.

... and then come in later with the halo over your head and the "aw shucks" routine.

You want to mix it up, we can mix it up.

You want to debate on a factual level, we can do that.

[Taco John]

You're correct, I misspoke.

I think you understood the intent, but if not, I'll make it clear...

1. When Griese was QB, every area of the team needed addressing... according to you. (Except Griese, of course.)

2. When Plummer was the QB, you poo-poo'd every other concern.

and a bonus....

3. Now that Jay is QB, we have other team concerns again.

Wow! :thumbs:



The problem is, #2 is an outright lie. You are simply, and factually lying. You are making things up to try and support your straw man case. I never once poo-poo'd any other concern. Not once. I did note efforts to improve those areas. I thought the Dumervil pick was a good one, and I expected it would help us out right away. I had falsely hoped that Courtney Brown would remain viable. I've been calling for a safety for years. Several of the draft-niks around here know that I've been wanting a safety upgrade for years since Arculeta and Reed were rookies. This past draft, I was hoping for Bunkley if we didn't get Leinart or Cutler. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I've wanted a fullback since HG went out. I wanted Roaf when we had a shot at him. I even said that Plummer needed another playmaker out there during the Pittsburgh game and was supportive of the idea of TO coming if he could pass Shanahan's smell test.

You are just lying man. It's dishonest. Quit doing it. It's not even respecatable.

[Mile High Mojoe]

That's because you have selective reading. Maybe the most important and relevant sentence in that entire post.

[Taco John]

Dude, don't jump in the middle of something with some **** like...

... Nice job Popps!! You really have reached the bottom of the barrel in your defense of Jake if you've resorted to word usage like this in a vain attempt to make a point.

... and then come in later with the halo over your head and the "aw shucks" routine.

You want to mix it up, we can mix it up.

You want to debate on a factual level, we can do that.


I don't get it either Herc. What you did is certainly not any worse than flat out lying to try and make a case. You did nothing close to name calling there. Seems legit to me.

[Kaylore]

I wasnt expecting you to lie about it.




You can research my early season posts and find several other issues highlighted outside of QB play.

Among them: play calling, TE deficiencies, WR deficiencies, OL deficiencies, RB deficiencies, Run game deficiencies, pass blocking deficiencies, and the lack of any sort of pass rush whatsoever.

Play Calling: Plummer lost the faith of the coaches.

Tight End: Well we need help at tight end, but Scheffler is showing up and Mustard is great at blocking, but I agree it is an area that we need help at. Hopefully we upgrade this.

Wide Receiver Deficiencies: None. Rod is slowing down, but Marshall is catching on and Walker is all world. We have a fine set of wide-outs and they are getting open, they just haven't had a very good QB at all this year.

Running back: This wasn't a problem when Plummer played. Plummer was the problem. Before Tatum was hurt, he led the AFC in rushing. He's back to producing like was averaging 6.8 yards per carry and putting up 117 yards against one of the best rushing defenses in their own house.

Cutler made the safeties play outside the box for the first time all season last game and that will improve as he gets better. He can't stay healthy but he was fine when Plummer was sucking it up. Despite facing 7-9 men in the box the first half of the season, he still was producing more than enough to take pressure off of Plummer.

Pass Blocking deficiencies: You bet! I was harping on Foster the big pile o' suckage all year. They finally replaced him, but then Meadows has been struggling with a hammy all year and Mustard isn't ready to take over yet.

Foster was one of the biggest reasons we struggled this year, especially in critical situations. Lepsis was hurt in the Browns game. Injuries happen, but just so you know it is extremely rare for teams to lose their left tackle early in the season and finish above .500.

Pass Rush: :deadhorse

[Blueflame]

You're correct, I misspoke.

I think you understood the intent, but if not, I'll make it clear...

1. When Griese was QB, every area of the team needed addressing... according to you. (Except Griese, of course.)

2. When Plummer was the QB, you poo-poo'd every other concern.

and a bonus....

3. Now that Jay is QB, we have other team concerns again.

Wow! :thumbs:

We've always had other team concerns besides just QB performance, Popps. The team that dominates at the line of scrimmage is usually the team that wins the football game because much of the battle is won or lost "in the trenches".

[Popps]

I'm going to post this again, and I expect it to be ignored... But I'm hoping people will make note of it.

Popps, can you give us any insight on why you are taking it out on the people who support the QB switch

I'm not sure what that means. I supported the QB switch. (Read, Taco.. read.)

Am I taking it out on myself?

actually going after the folks responsible for using our draft picks to move up the board and take a replacement quarterback when we needed a DT/DE to get the Superbowl bump you're looking for?

Well, the problems didn't start this year, and who can blame Shanahan for grabbing a blue chip QB when we have enough picks to actually do so.
I'm thrilled with Cutler. I must be missing something.

On one hand you say you don't blame Shanahan for using our resources to find a replacement for Jake, and on the other you're saying that an upgrade up front would have given us the bump we needed to be competitive for years.

Slow down... what I said was, I felt like a D-line improvement might have been the difference in an AFCCG and a SB. That doesn't just mean this year, that means last year... the year before.

In fact, I've premised much of my philosophy in that regard with the idea that we have some key, aging players like Lynch, Wilson, Nalen and Smith who won't be around in a couple years when Cutler is likely to hit his full stride.

So, my argument has been as much about the past few years as it has about this year, probably more. I would have loved to see us build a dominant front seven over the past few years.... AND draft a blue chip QB to replace Plummer after we'd won a SB.

Teams have won SBs with far less at QB, and we were a game away.

But, we chose to go mid-round and Browns cast-offs for D-line help, and this is what we get.... teams scoring 30, 40, 50 points on us, even when we DO have a good offensive output.

[Rohirrim]

I'm going to post this again, and I expect it to be ignored... But I'm hoping people will make note of it.

Popps, can you give us any insight on why you are taking it out on the people who support the QB switch rather than actually going after the folks responsible for using our draft picks to move up the board and take a replacement quarterback when we needed a DT/DE to get the Superbowl bump you're looking for?

On one hand you say you don't blame Shanahan for using our resources to find a replacement for Jake, and on the other you're saying that an upgrade up front would have given us the bump we needed to be competitive for years.

Any insight you can give us on why you haven't had the balls to actually call Shanahan on the carpet publically about any of this. Don't you think it's wierd that Shanahan makes moves that support my point of view, and yet you've got nothing but words of praise for him, all while telling me that I've been nothing but wrong? I mean, virtually nobody here thought that we were going to take a quarterback this last draft, except for myself and Herc.

I certainly don't want to insert myself in this argument except to point out, when Shanahan and Ted traded up to get Jay, they thought they would have a healthy Courtney Brown on the D line.

[Popps]

We've always had other team concerns besides just QB performance, Popps. The team that dominates at the line of scrimmage is usually the team that wins the football game because much of the battle is won or lost "in the trenches".

Preaching to the choir is an understatement, in this case.

I've got that tattooed on my forehead.

[Taco John]

So still... Why no criticism for Shanahan?

[Popps]

I certainly don't want to insert myself in this argument except to point out, when Shanahan and Ted traded up to get Jay, they thought they would have a healthy Courtney Brown on the D line.

True. It would have been interesting to see the difference he made, particularly on running downs. I think Lang eventually showed to be a liability against the run, and would have been more suited for his original role of pass-rusher, or at least rotational use.

I thought Lang might have been a better every-down option early on, but I think with hindsight, maybe he wasn't.

[Mile High Mojoe]

Play Calling: Plummer lost the faith of the coaches.

Tight End: Well we need help at tight end, but Scheffler is showing up and Mustard is great at blocking, but I agree it is an area that we need help at. Hopefully we upgrade this.

Wide Receiver Deficiencies: None. Rod is slowing down, but Marshall is catching on and Walker is all world. We have a fine set of wide-outs and they are getting open, they just haven't had a very good QB at all this year.

Running back: This wasn't a problem when Plummer played. Plummer was the problem. Before Tatum was hurt, he led the AFC in rushing. He's back to producing like was averaging 6.8 yards per carry and putting up 117 yards against one of the best rushing defenses in their own house.

Cutler made the safeties play outside the box for the first time all season last game and that will improve as he gets better. He can't stay healthy but he was fine when Plummer was sucking it up. Despite facing 7-9 men in the box the first half of the season, he still was producing more than enough to take pressure off of Plummer.

Pass Blocking deficiencies: You bet! I was harping on Foster the big pile o' suckage all year. They finally replaced him, but then Meadows has been struggling with a hammy all year and Mustard isn't ready to take over yet.

Foster was one of the biggest reasons we struggled this year, especially in critical situations. Lepsis was hurt in the Browns game. Injuries happen, but just so you know it is extremely rare for teams to lose their left tackle early in the season and finish above .500.

Pass Rush: :deadhorse

:notworthy

There's no need for me to share my thoughts on this debate when you and TJ are saying it so very well and to the point. It should make perfect sense but how can you convince him, he can't be convinced, it is like...

:deadhorse

[epicSocialism4tw]

Pass Rush: :deadhorse

That horse is still alive and kicking.

[Popps]

So still... Why no criticism for Shanahan?

Are you kidding me?

I've blasted the front office on this for years, including Shanahan. Where have you been?

[Northman]

I truly think Shanahan thought this team could get over the hump this year initially. He probably felt if he gave Jake more weapons in the receiving area it might become a dominant offense and at times you can see it. But i dont think he saw Jake having a setback like he did. So chances are now Shanahan is going to have to really concentrate on defense ( if money allows us ) and hope the Jay progresses quickly.

[Taco John]

Are you kidding me?

I've blasted the front office on this for years, including Shanahan. Where have you been?


I've seen more criticism for Coyer during a shut-out win from you than I've ever seen you calling Shanahan on the carpet.

[freak6]

I've seen more criticism for Coyer during a shut-out win from you than I've ever seen you calling Shanahan on the carpet.

bwaa ha haaaaa

[fontaine]

I've seen more criticism for Coyer during a shut-out win from you than I've ever seen you calling Shanahan on the carpet.

yeah I don't get that. Coyer doesn't have control or final say on free agency/draft. It's like hammering the guy when his D's real weakeness is something he has no control over.

[listopencil]

Hey, TJ:

Since you've been jumping in this thread from time to time I wanted to say that I didn't forget our bet about Cutler starting next year. Too bad it happened in the worst possible way but it looks like your going to win so I'll be sending you some micro-brew from Chico, California after Week one of '07. What was it? A six pack or a case?

[Cito Pelon]

So still... Why no criticism for Shanahan?

Are you soliciting criticism of Shanny? Let me know one way or the other. I can a bust off a rant about that guy at any time, or I can keep my peace.

[Popps]

I've seen more criticism for Coyer during a shut-out win from you than I've ever seen you calling Shanahan on the carpet.

I've been bitching about our defensive choices since 1999 across three different message boards. I can't imagine how blind or willfully ignorant you'd have to be to have missed that.

In any case, Coyer's potential shortcomings have only recently come to light.
Shanahan and the front office's woes with defensive personnel have been long talked about on this board by myself and others.

I'm not sure where you're going with this new "you won't criticize Shanahan" routine, but it's even more off target than your usual nonsense.

[Popps]

Are you soliciting criticism of Shanny? Let me know one way or the other. I can a bust off a rant about that guy at any time, or I can keep my peace.

It's just some bizarre new angle he's trying to take to prove a point that doesn't exist. I've been all over Shanahan about this stuff for ages, as have many others.

He's reaching. You can't blame him.

[Dedhed]

You're right, SD had a very tough time in Denver during Plummer's tenure.



Jake? No. The defense? Yes. See, Jake doesn't play defense.



Here's one...

In their common game... the team scored 27 points, which is more than the 20 points we scored with Jay last Sunday.

'Best chance to win" generally implies the team scoring more points. That's being picky... I know.

Anything else?

You're staking your entire stance on the common game idea which is a complete farce in the NFL where anyone worth debating understands that on "Any given Sunday" anyone can beat anyone else. More points, fewer turnovers, better third down conversions, better passer rating.

By your rationale David Gerard and Vince Young are better than the following QBs:Eli Manning, David Carr, Byron Leftwich, Chad Pennington, Mark Brunell, Tom Brady, JP Losman, and Jake PLummer because against common opponent of the Colts, they won where the others lost. I mean the since the supporting cast, or venue, etc makes no difference in the outcome you can measure a QB just by the point spread against a common opponent, right?

Who was on D for the Broncos against SD? Where was the game Jake lost played? And Cutler's game? It's just beyond absurd how much you ignore and what you choose to call fact. Laughable, and yet you have such a blind spot for Plummer you are convinced (I'm sure) that what you're saying makes sense and doesn't come off as desperate rhetoric.

[BroncoBuff]

True. It would have been interesting to see the difference he made, particularly on running downs. I think Lang eventually showed to be a liability against the run, and would have been more suited for his original role of pass-rusher, or at least rotational use.

I thought Lang might have been a better every-down option early on, but I think with hindsight, maybe he wasn't.

I'm usually with you 100% on blaming front-4 pass rush deficiencies as our #1 weakness ... but something about watching Merriman and Cooper last week has me wondering why we never hear the words "Gold" or "DJ Williams" anywhere near the word "sack."

Pass rush is predominantly a front-four issue, sure. But I think our linebackers have, what - 1 sack all year? Can't blame only Coyer or Shany for that ... Gold may be fast, but he doesn't make many plays for a Will linebacker.

.

[Popps]

I'm usually with you 100% on blaming front-4 pass rush deficiencies as our #1 weakness ... but something about watching Merriman and Cooper last week has me wondering why we never hear the words "Gold" or "DJ Williams" anywhere near the word "sack."

Pass rush is predominantly a front-four issue, sure. But I think our linebackers have, what - 1 sack all year? Can't blame only Coyer or Shany for that ... Gold may be fast, but he doesn't make many plays for a Will linebacker.

.


Hell, then you're with me 100% on this one.

I've been all over our players for their **** play. D.J. Williams is rarely even seen during games, but I'm told that's because we use him wrong. Not sure who to blame for that. Gold is usually fine early in the season, then fades.

Our line blows.

I definitely don't blame Coyer for all the problems. In fact, it's only recently that myself and many others started asking questions about him. I've been on the talent much longer than I've been on his case.

I actually like the guy, I'm just not sure he's all the way there as a coordinator based on our results, some things he's said, some things I've seen, etc.

So, I think we totally agree, here.

[Popps]

You're staking your entire stance on the common game idea

That's hardly my entire stance. But, when you come up with proof that "he was our best chance to win now," let me know. So far, you've called people names and droned on about nothing.

Here's proof you can't use.... wins or points against a common opponent.

Good luck.

[watermock]

I wasn't aware that Jay Cutler threw the game away.

[Popps]

I truly think Shanahan thought this team could get over the hump this year initially. He probably felt if he gave Jake more weapons in the receiving area it might become a dominant offense and at times you can see it. But i dont think he saw Jake having a setback like he did. So chances are now Shanahan is going to have to really concentrate on defense ( if money allows us ) and hope the Jay progresses quickly.

Nice post.

That's about as well as anyone could sum it up.

[Taco John]

Hey, TJ:

Since you've been jumping in this thread from time to time I wanted to say that I didn't forget our bet about Cutler starting next year. Too bad it happened in the worst possible way but it looks like your going to win so I'll be sending you some micro-brew from Chico, California after Week one of '07. What was it? A six pack or a case?


I believe it was a six pack. I'd love a local IPA if you can find one. :thumbs:

[Cito Pelon]

I'm usually with you 100% on blaming front-4 pass rush deficiencies as our #1 weakness ... but something about watching Merriman and Cooper last week has me wondering why we never hear the words "Gold" or "DJ Williams" anywhere near the word "sack."

Pass rush is predominantly a front-four issue, sure. But I think our linebackers have, what - 1 sack all year? Can't blame only Coyer or Shany for that ... Gold may be fast, but he doesn't make many plays for a Will linebacker.

.

Wilson, Gold, DJ have one sack and 0 interceptions total. That's pathetic.

[errand]

He owned the third quarter...but he struggled in the first half and made rookie mistakes. And he fumbled again just now in the 4th. He'll get better as time goes on, but as of right now....his and the teams win percentage is zero. If you're talking about next year...then of course.

Watching him play is encouraging. He's only gonna get better the more he plays. Hopefully he'll live up to the hype. He's gonna make a few mistakes, but that's expected of a rookie. I think playing during crunch time will help him develop a bit faster too. Who knows, if we win our last 3 and get some help (Jags lost today and KC plays SD) we just might make it to the dance.

Still have to find away to stop opposing RB's from gaining 100+ yards and pressure the opposing QB more. But should we make the playoffs (outside chance still) he should be playing much better 4 weeks down the road.

It also helps to have T Bell back running for over 100+ now. The D is gonna have to step up though if we stand a chance to make the playoffs this season.

[fontaine]

How many 3rd and long situations has Jay completed so far?

Unbelievable, and all without any running game. The spread offense is great and kids who were struggling like Marshall/Schef are now competing with Rod/Javon for receptions.

Jay has a LOT of growing up to do but hot damn the kid is great for this offense. So many of his passes are on the money and he's spread the ball around very well.

Keep it up Jay, Mike!

[Northman]

How many 3rd and long situations has Jay completed so far?

Unbelievable, and all without any running game. The spread offense is great and kids who were struggling like Marshall/Schef are now competing with Rod/Javon for receptions.

Jay has a LOT of growing up to do but hot damn the kid is great for this offense. So many of his passes are on the money and he's spread the ball around very well.

Keep it up Jay, Mike!



Yea, i am very happy with him right now. Sucks that we have let down on other areas on this team the last few weeks. But this is how a NFL Qb should be progressing and playing. And can we give credit to Vince Young for leading his very underappreciated Titans to yet another victory today? Awesome job by the rookies.

[frerottenextelway]

Yea, i am very happy with him right now. Sucks that we have let down on other areas on this team the last few weeks. But this is how a NFL Qb should be progressing and playing. And can we give credit to Vince Young for leading his very underappreciated Titans to yet another victory today? Awesome job by the rookies.

Tennesse scored 24 points. Tennessee had 3 defensive toucdowns.

[frerottenextelway]

At the pace Jay is progressing, he'll be better than Marino by his 4th start. :)

[Northman]

Tennesse scored 24 points. Tennessee had 3 defensive toucdowns.



None the less, Vince is 5-0 in his last 5 starts and last week he ran in the winning TD from like 20 yds out.

[Popps]

Just enjoy the kid's first complete game. He's still going to have bumps in the road, but his potential is just overflowing. The table was nicely set for his breakout game today, and he's coming through.

Now, let's see if our defense can hold a team under 30 so we can actually get the kid his first win.

[errand]

None the less, Vince is 5-0 in his last 5 starts and last week he ran in the winning TD from like 20 yds out.

...it was from 39 yards...but, who's counting?

[Taco John]

There should be no doubt about who gives us the best chance to win by now.

[Northman]

...it was from 39 yards...but, who's counting?



Even better, thank you for the correction. :sunshine:

[Northman]

Just enjoy the kid's first complete game. He's still going to have bumps in the road, but his potential is just overflowing. The table was nicely set for his breakout game today, and he's coming through.

Now, let's see if our defense can hold a team under 30 so we can actually get the kid his first win.



Exactly. We just need a win under our belt right now to give the team some confidence again. Hopefully we can pull a miracle out next week against Cincy. They have the kind of defense we can score on but they have a lethal offense too.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

There should be no doubt about who gives us the best chance to win by now.

Now you just have to find a way to get those Cardinals on your schedule every week.

[Popps]

There should be no doubt about who gives us the best chance to win by now.

Jay's getting close. Too bad he didn't give us our "best chance to win now," when we lost two straight and dropped down in the playoff hunt.

He's getting there, though. Great game, given against a crappy team. But, he looked good in the 2nd half last week.

He's on his way. Eventually, that will definitely be a true statement, as we've all known.

[Clockwork Orange]

Now you just have to find a way to get those Cardinals on your schedule every week.

You mean those same Cardinals that the Chefs needed a last second missed FG to beat?:laugh:

[errand]

Jake Plummer led this offense to more than 17 points 3 times in 11 starts. Jay Cutler, the rookie, has done it twice in two starts. Pretty simple math.

Jay is gonna be 1-2 after today, let's see how he's sitting after 3 and 1/2 seasons before we start talking so much trash.

Who cares how many points you score as long as you win the game? BTW, the last two times Jake led the Broncos to over 30 points, they lost one of them.

Look, this team has bigger probems than QB. I think we'd have the same record with or without Jake, maybe he wins one more...who knows? The bottom line is the controversy is over and Jay is now our starter. Support the Broncos regardless...I do.

It doesn't matter what you or I think because Mike isn't gonna make a change barring injury. Jake has handled the demotion well (you can make him eat his spinach, but he doesn't have to like it) and has two options, stay and back-up Jay or leave and try to win a starting gig elsewhere. I liked Frerotte when he was our back-up, but didn't lose any sleep when he left like alot of people here did when Griese left.

Mike has made the commitment to Jay, and I trust his judgement even if it's not what I'd have done personally. Like I said, I support the Broncos not any one player. Those former players of ours I wish well upon their departure.

You know, it seems odd that some of the most maligned players and coaches are the ones who had some sort of success here in Denver, and yet, they can never get a atta boy from some of you guys. Go figure.

Red Miller leads this team to their first division title, playoff appearance, playoff win, conference title and SB appearance, and was 42-25 as our head coach, but rarely gets mentioned fondly by any of the people on this board. some have gone as far to say he just took Ralston's team and rode it's coattails.

Craig Morton same thing, but some people in here think he stunk too.

Dan Reeves? No need to rehash the arguments, but he was a pretty damn good coach when he was in Denver, and yet....

Now Jake comes along, and all he's done is lead us to three consecutive playoff appearances and won about 75% of the games he started and because he's not had a good season he's all of a sudden the worst there ever was it seems.

This doesn't mean Dan Reeves or Jake didn't deserve to get fired, but geez, how about thanking them for what they did for us while they held the jobs?

[-Slap-]

There should be no doubt about who gives us the best chance to win by now.

Taco, no amount of proof will ever be conclusive enough. Control freaks cannot abandon an argument, even when its crystal clear they were dead wrong.

Very entertaining to watch the spin attempts, though. The rest of us can simply savor victory.

[Clockwork Orange]

Allow me to correct myself, Cutler has now done it 3 times in 3 starts.

It matters because earlier this season, if the Broncos gave up 20 points, they were pretty much screwed.

The offense is finding a rhythm with Cutler that wasn't there with Plummer.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Both TDs were great passes today. One that showed his arm strength and the other showed great touch.

Bring on the Bengals.

[orange crusher]

If there's anyone that doesn't think Jay gives us the best chance to win NOW, you better go back and bury your head back in the sand. I didn't like the draft pick because I thought Plummer could get us there with the right supporting cast and we gave up our chance to help that supporting cast with the pick, but I'm amazed at how far Jay has come the last few weeks. I don't think we're going to have to worry about the QB position for a long time.

[Pendejo]

Allow me to correct myself, Cutler has now done it 3 times in 3 starts.

It matters because earlier this season, if the Broncos gave up 20 points, they were pretty much screwed.

The offense is finding a rhythm with Cutler that wasn't there with Plummer.

The rhythm is there...but the Rat can really explore his playbook with Cutler. He can flat out make all of the throws. He also doesn't seem to get shaken by turning the rock over. He shrugs it off.

His seemingly bored demeanor is probably a perfect fit for a coach like Shanahan. He'll get in a qb's face. Instead of getting frazzled...Cutler just nods...and yawns when the coach walks away. Then goes out on the field and puts up points.

[OrangeShadow]

its clear who give them the best shot, anyone who says otherwise is just in denial

[Popps]

Mike has made the commitment to Jay, and I trust his judgement even if it's not what I'd have done personally. Like I said, I support the Broncos not any one player. Those former players of ours I wish well upon their departure.


It's just great to win a game. It took Jay a few games, but he's finding a rhythm.

What a pleasure it was watching him operate out there today. I hope he can continue his progress next week. He'll be going against another iffy defense, so the situation will favor putting the ball in the air early and often.

Couldn't be more happy for the kid.... and couldn't be more happy to get a win after an ugly drought.

Plus, we still have a glimmer of playoff hope!

Good times.

[errand]

Taco, no amount of proof will ever be conclusive enough. Control freaks cannot abandon an argument, even when its crystal clear they were dead wrong.

Very entertaining to watch the spin attempts, though. The rest of us can simply savor victory.

And yet amazingly you guys couldn't (or most likely wouldn't) savor any of the 7 victories when Jake was the starter.

and just what were they dead wrong about Slap? The Broncos won 7 games with Jake as the starter. Sure the D helped him win a few, but to be fair, they also help him lose a few as well. 7-4 vs 1-2, I fail to see how one can look at that and say definitively that one gives us the best chance than the other.

Jay as a number one draft pick was gonna eventually start sooner or later, so he's not playing with any pressure. At least not the pressure a maligned guy like Jake despite his accomplishments as our QB has faced. Jake led the team to the AFC title game, and his reward? They drafted his replacement.

I don't care what anyone says, the guy was looking over his shoulder every pass. Between the fans and media, not to mention a few teammates as well....he knew his days as our starter were numbered since April.

The difference between the majority of Jake "homers" as you guys like to call them is that they believed that a vet gives you the best chance to win, and history generally says so too. They also correctly knew that this team's problems go deeper than the QB.

Lack of a dominant DE and consistent pass rush hurt us this year. so did special teams in particular, KO returns as we are dead last in starting field position. We also had several games where our D got raped for 200 yards on the ground by oppoosing teams.

If it makes you feel better to say that Jay now starting means those who supported Jake were wrong, fine. Enjoy being right for a change.

[Dagmar]

Jay Cutler 21/30 261 yards 2 TD's 1 INT.

Higher than Jake's highest this year.

End of thread.

[baja]

Ifwe beat cinci are we in

[Broncos4tw]

The point many were making all along (at least one I was), was not that necessarily Jay Cutler would give us the best chance to win, so much as playing gave us the best chance to LOSE.

I gave our team an absolute 0% chance of winning the SB this year with Jake Plummer at QB. We had no chance. He had not managed to even string TWO solid games in a row together. And people really expected he'd manage FOUR against playoff caliber teams?

I still don't think we have much of a chance at winning the SB this year, if we want to be realistic. I am hoping, but not getting too hung up on it, since I doubt it will be a reality. But it wasn't going to be on with Jake either.

At least next year, Cutler will be READY TO PLAY. Instead of a raw rookie taking his first snap in the first game of a new year. Next year, we at least have a chance imo.

Jake lost his job, Jake was playing like crap, and Jake was going to lead our team to four consecutive victories and a SB win as soon as leprechauns fly out of my butt.

[Mile High Mojoe]

It's just great to win a game. It took Jay a few games, but he's finding a rhythm.

What a pleasure it was watching him operate out there today. I hope he can continue his progress next week. He'll be going against another iffy defense, so the situation will favor putting the ball in the air early and often.

Couldn't be more happy for the kid.... and couldn't be more happy to get a win after an ugly drought.

Plus, we still have a glimmer of playoff hope!

Good times.

Winning cures all ills huh Popps? Would you be willing to admit that Jay “gives us the best chance to win” now or not? It’s very refreshing to get on here after this big win and not see you go into any negative spin about the Broncos yet. Jay was unbelievable today. We did make some mistakes in a few areas but for the most part we dominated the game throughout. If you take away the Bell fumble this game is a complete blowout.

[errand]

Jay Cutler 21/30 261 yards 2 TD's 1 INT.

Higher than Jake's highest this year.

End of thread.

Wow.. I didn't know they ranked QBs by the number of yards passing.

Gus Frerotte threw for over 450 yards a few seasons ago...does than mean he's better than anyone we've ever had who didn't?

Again I find it amazing how many of you guys put such a small priority in a QB winning games.

[Popps]

Ifwe beat cinci are we in

Amen, brother.

Want to talk about "our best chance to win?"

It's when our defense shows up and makes a few plays like they did today, not to mention our special teams and running game.

Well, our D has yet another chance to not only make the statement that they're not a pushover, but they can make a statement and likely secure us a playoff spot. (Or put us in great shape.)

[Mile High Mojoe]

There should be no doubt about who gives us the best chance to win by now.I'm so glad this thread lives on. There is no doubt who gives us the best chance to win. It'll be nice this week not to have debate Jay's game, it was there for all to see, he's the real deal and he has arrived.

[Dagmar]

Wow.. I didn't know they ranked QBs by the number of yards passing.

Gus Frerotte threw for over 450 yards a few seasons ago...does than mean he's better than anyone we've ever had who didn't?

Again I find it amazing how many of you guys put such a small priority in a QB winning games.

Maybe so. What would you say Jake's best game this year was? What would you say the team's best game before this one was?

[Mile High Mojoe]

And yet amazingly you guys couldn't (or most likely wouldn't) savor any of the 7 victories when Jake was the starter.

and just what were they dead wrong about Slap? The Broncos won 7 games with Jake as the starter. Sure the D helped him win a few, but to be fair, they also help him lose a few as well. 7-4 vs 1-2, I fail to see how one can look at that and say definitively that one gives us the best chance than the other.

Jay as a number one draft pick was gonna eventually start sooner or later, so he's not playing with any pressure. At least not the pressure a maligned guy like Jake despite his accomplishments as our QB has faced. Jake led the team to the AFC title game, and his reward? They drafted his replacement.

I don't care what anyone says, the guy was looking over his shoulder every pass. Between the fans and media, not to mention a few teammates as well....he knew his days as our starter were numbered since April.

The difference between the majority of Jake "homers" as you guys like to call them is that they believed that a vet gives you the best chance to win, and history generally says so too. They also correctly knew that this team's problems go deeper than the QB.

Lack of a dominant DE and consistent pass rush hurt us this year. so did special teams in particular, KO returns as we are dead last in starting field position. We also had several games where our D got raped for 200 yards on the ground by oppoosing teams.

If it makes you feel better to say that Jay now starting means those who supported Jake were wrong, fine. Enjoy being right for a change.Unreal, you talk about sour grapes.

[Popps]

Nah.

Just put me on the side of whoever wins.

I don't care if our starter throws for 500 yards or 50. Just win the friggin' game.

Figured Jay would break out today... he did, and it's time to enjoy the win, as I've enjoyed all of our wins this year.

[Cito Pelon]

There should be no doubt about who gives us the best chance to win by now.

Now there isn't.

[Blueflame]

Maybe so. What would you say Jake's best game this year was? What would you say the team's best game before this one was?

Plummer's best game of the '06 season was against the Steelers. His numbers were: 16/27, 227 yds, 3 tds and 0 ints for a passer rating of 123.5.

[Popps]

Now there isn't.

Well, I know where you're coming from... and it's nice to see Jay setting in after a few games.

Jay now has to contend with the same BS Jake had to contend with. He seems to be settling into some nice QB play, which is great.

But, our best chance to win comes from playing complete games. We saw that last week.

This week, our D made some nice plays, got some QB pressure and had a respectable showing.

Special teams also pitched in nicely.

There's our best chance to win, right there.

But, yea... I think we all knew Jay would eventually be a real asset back there. At least this week, it looks like he's making progress in that direction. Let's hope he even steps it up more next week.

Definitely fun to watch.

[Pendejo]

Ifwe beat cinci are we in

Not at this point. Right now if the Donks win out they're in. At least that's what the CBS heads were saying. They are in control of their destiny as it were.

[GonzoLays]

Good God, give it up already. Alright, alright, we freaking get it. Jay Cutler gives us the best chance to win. How long are are people going to jerk off to this thread? Till Mid May? 2010? Geesh.

[Dagmar]

Plummer's best game of the '06 season was against the Steelers. His numbers were: 16/27, 227 yds, 3 tds and 0 ints for a passer rating of 123.5.

Dammit Blue!

I forgot that one. I was thinking NE.

You know what, I'll be happy when all this goes away and we can celebrate breaking a 4 game losing streak with a tremendous all round performance without all these snide "I told you so"'s and whatnot.

I for one am happy and celebrating tonight!!!!

(I'll be back around midnight with some mock style posts that'll I'll regret in the morning...) :strong:

[Northman]

Well, I know where you're coming from... and it's nice to see Jay setting in after a few games.

Jay now has to contend with the same BS Jake had to contend with. He seems to be settling into some nice QB play, which is great.

But, our best chance to win comes from playing complete games. We saw that last week.

This week, our D made some nice plays, got some QB pressure and had a respectable showing.

Special teams also pitched in nicely.

There's our best chance to win, right there.

But, yea... I think we all knew Jay would eventually be a real asset back there. At least this week, it looks like he's making progress in that direction. Let's hope he even steps it up more next week.

Definitely fun to watch.


Good post, my only disagreement is i dont think Jay will face as much flak as Jake did. Reason being, if Jay plays consistent football game in and game out people will stand behind him. If he becomes inconsistent every other game than i can see some flak coming his way. But, he should get a good 3 years to come to grip with this offense. He already has succeeded my expectations with his calmness, his ability to bounce back after a Int, and his spreading the ball around. :wiggle:

[Cito Pelon]

Jay is gonna be 1-2 after today, let's see how he's sitting after 3 and 1/2 seasons before we start talking so much trash.

Who cares how many points you score as long as you win the game? BTW, the last two times Jake led the Broncos to over 30 points, they lost one of them.

Look, this team has bigger probems than QB. I think we'd have the same record with or without Jake, maybe he wins one more...who knows? The bottom line is the controversy is over and Jay is now our starter. Support the Broncos regardless...I do.

It doesn't matter what you or I think because Mike isn't gonna make a change barring injury. Jake has handled the demotion well (you can make him eat his spinach, but he doesn't have to like it) and has two options, stay and back-up Jay or leave and try to win a starting gig elsewhere. I liked Frerotte when he was our back-up, but didn't lose any sleep when he left like alot of people here did when Griese left.

Mike has made the commitment to Jay, and I trust his judgement even if it's not what I'd have done personally. Like I said, I support the Broncos not any one player. Those former players of ours I wish well upon their departure.

You know, it seems odd that some of the most maligned players and coaches are the ones who had some sort of success here in Denver, and yet, they can never get a atta boy from some of you guys. Go figure.

Red Miller leads this team to their first division title, playoff appearance, playoff win, conference title and SB appearance, and was 42-25 as our head coach, but rarely gets mentioned fondly by any of the people on this board. some have gone as far to say he just took Ralston's team and rode it's coattails.

Craig Morton same thing, but some people in here think he stunk too.

Dan Reeves? No need to rehash the arguments, but he was a pretty damn good coach when he was in Denver, and yet....

Now Jake comes along, and all he's done is lead us to three consecutive playoff appearances and won about 75% of the games he started and because he's not had a good season he's all of a sudden the worst there ever was it seems.

This doesn't mean Dan Reeves or Jake didn't deserve to get fired, but geez, how about thanking them for what they did for us while they held the jobs?

History cannot be ignored. Good post.

[errand]

Maybe so. What would you say Jake's best game this year was? What would you say the team's best game before this one was?

Well, I'd say any game we won was a good game. What say you?

Look nobody ever doubted the kid could play. The debate was if making a QB change midseason was the best thing for a team that was 7-4 and still had a chance to make the playoffs.

History generally said that doing that was a disaster. Yanking QB's back and forth generally impedes a team's progress in the win column.

Jay has improved in every game so far....but if you think he's not gonna take a few lumps you're sadly mistaken. Rookies rarely enjoy success in the NFL because of the speed of the game and the experience of those players opposing him.

I'm glad we won, doesn't matter to me who the QB was.....and if he plays well the rest of the year he'll increase our chances of making the playoffs. Hopefully he does. I'm optimistic he will.

[Spider]

well from my point of view , The offense is more in control , then when Jake was in .........
just runs smoother

[Popps]

You know what, I'll be happy when all this goes away and we can celebrate breaking a 4 game losing streak

Hell with that... celebrate it now, bro!

We had a great time over here today. It's just nice to see my 12 year old not pouting after one of our games.

What a great day. Broncos win... Cutler gets his first, and I'm off to celebrate one year of marriage to the greatest, most beautiful woman and mother in the world!

[Blueflame]

Today, the Broncos didn't even have to punt until "garbage time"...

[Rigs11]

Hey knuckleheads. When you're done blowing each other over cutler you might...might just realize that we played the cardinals today.:welcome:

[Taco John]

But, our best chance to win comes from playing complete games. We saw that last week.




Yep. Just like we were saying, even after a win where Jake did everything he could to give the game away. Nice to no longer have him around our necks.

[Rascal]

The INT was ugly and he missed several throws, but he played a good game. I'll give him a B+. That defense still scares me though when teams start passing on us. Remember we were only playing the cardinals, so don't blow this W out of proportion. This was a game we were suppose to win.

It was nice to see the ST's do something for a change. Give Quincy another shot next week and see if he can keep the job full time.

[Dagmar]

Today, the Broncos didn't even have to punt until "garbage time"...

And that was fricking TREMENDOUS!

[Blueflame]

Dammit Blue!

I forgot that one. I was thinking NE.

You know what, I'll be happy when all this goes away and we can celebrate breaking a 4 game losing streak with a tremendous all round performance without all these snide "I told you so"'s and whatnot.

I for one am happy and celebrating tonight!!!!

(I'll be back around midnight with some mock style posts that'll I'll regret in the morning...) :strong:

NE was another one of the 3 games in which we saw "Good Jake"... his numbers for that game were: 15/30 for 256 yds, 2 tds, 0 ints, and a passer rating of 101.5. Then there was the Colts game (even though we lost) in which he threw for: 13/21, 174 yds, 1 td 0 int... a passer rating of 104.1.

I'm delighted with the win today and the progress the kid is making. We won the time-of-possession battle today and I'm not certain that's happened before in this season.

Bring on the Mock-style posts... the Mane needs entertainment! ;D :devil:

[Spider]

And yet amazingly you guys couldn't (or most likely wouldn't) savor any of the 7 victories when Jake was the starter.

and just what were they dead wrong about Slap? The Broncos won 7 games with Jake as the starter. Sure the D helped him win a few, but to be fair, they also help him lose a few as well. 7-4 vs 1-2, I fail to see how one can look at that and say definitively that one gives us the best chance than the other.

Jay as a number one draft pick was gonna eventually start sooner or later, so he's not playing with any pressure. At least not the pressure a maligned guy like Jake despite his accomplishments as our QB has faced. Jake led the team to the AFC title game, and his reward? They drafted his replacement.

I don't care what anyone says, the guy was looking over his shoulder every pass. Between the fans and media, not to mention a few teammates as well....he knew his days as our starter were numbered since April.

The difference between the majority of Jake "homers" as you guys like to call them is that they believed that a vet gives you the best chance to win, and history generally says so too. They also correctly knew that this team's problems go deeper than the QB.

Lack of a dominant DE and consistent pass rush hurt us this year. so did special teams in particular, KO returns as we are dead last in starting field position. We also had several games where our D got raped for 200 yards on the ground by oppoosing teams.

If it makes you feel better to say that Jay now starting means those who supported Jake were wrong, fine. Enjoy being right for a change.

come on errand , you know better , Cutler is consistent , Jake is erratic as Colorado weather .......................
Sure the team has serious problems in other areas , so whats wrong with developing a young QB and finding out what you have now , instead of waiting next year ?
now Shanny can focus on the Dline , and special teams , though I suspect Denvers D will get alot better now that we can sustain drives ..........

[Cito Pelon]

Well, I know where you're coming from... and it's nice to see Jay setting in after a few games.

Jay now has to contend with the same BS Jake had to contend with. He seems to be settling into some nice QB play, which is great.

But, our best chance to win comes from playing complete games. We saw that last week.

This week, our D made some nice plays, got some QB pressure and had a respectable showing.

Special teams also pitched in nicely.

There's our best chance to win, right there.

But, yea... I think we all knew Jay would eventually be a real asset back there. At least this week, it looks like he's making progress in that direction. Let's hope he even steps it up more next week.

Definitely fun to watch.

It takes a three phase game to win anything of consequence.

[Garcia Bronco]

What a performance today. Unreal for his third start. Everything worked out as is should have

[Garcia Bronco]

It takes a three phase game to win anything of consequence.

And we saw that today minus the punts. We actually got field position today in Special Teams. The only major problem today was the fumbles and the turnovers

[Spider]

wow just wow , cant believe how many people are willing to go into next year blind @ QB ...........
but now that Jay is getting snaps , getting playing time , I guess that means we now dont focus on other areas .............
But then how bad would it suck if we did fix all the holes , then had growing pains at the QB spot ...........
I guess people will bítch and moan about anything

[Mile High Mojoe]

Good God, give it up already. Alright, alright, we freaking get it. Jay Cutler gives us the best chance to win. How long are are people going to jerk off to this thread? Till Mid May? 2010? Geesh.You just can't live with yourself unless you get a negative dig in right Gonzo? Can't you just be happy with the win. It sucks to be you today I know but can't you just savor a good win?

[Cito Pelon]

Dammit Blue!

I forgot that one. I was thinking NE.

You know what, I'll be happy when all this goes away and we can celebrate breaking a 4 game losing streak with a tremendous all round performance without all these snide "I told you so"'s and whatnot.

I for one am happy and celebrating tonight!!!!

(I'll be back around midnight with some mock style posts that'll I'll regret in the morning...) :strong:

Wino.

[BroncoFiend]

The INT was ugly and he missed several throws, but he played a good game. I'll give him a B+. That defense still scares me though when teams start passing on us. Remember we were only playing the cardinals, so don't blow this W out of proportion. This was a game we were suppose to win.

It was nice to see the ST's do something for a change. Give Quincy another shot next week and see if he can keep the job full time.

Quincy got the job done and Clark hasn't done a thing, I think today has earned Quincy the job for the rest of the season. Next season hopefully the new special teams coach will be picking the best return man.

[Spider]

with all of this Cutler hoopla`, what about Scheff ? Kid has saved Cutlers butt a few times ...........

[Cito Pelon]

The INT was ugly and he missed several throws, but he played a good game. I'll give him a B+. That defense still scares me though when teams start passing on us. Remember we were only playing the cardinals, so don't blow this W out of proportion. This was a game we were suppose to win.

It was nice to see the ST's do something for a change. Give Quincy another shot next week and see if he can keep the job full time.

Dude can play. A -. Now it's a matter of can he keep a cool head now he's the toast of the town. If the kid thinks he can relax now that he's looking good, he's very mistaken. The pressure just amped up.

[Cito Pelon]

What a performance today. Unreal for his third start. Everything worked out as is should have

Yup.

[broncobum6162]

I got my Christmas present today. It was soooooooooooooo special.
And it was a week early too.

For you mullet fans see below.

[Dagmar]

Wino.

Wrong.

Wrong wrong wrong.

I'm insulted.


























Scotcho.

[Dagmar]

I got my Christmas present today. It was soooooooooooooo special.
And it was a week early too.

For you mullet fans see below.

Christmas present = Beating the Bengals.

[Cito Pelon]

Wrong.

Wrong wrong wrong.

I'm insulted.


























Scotcho.

Let 'er rip. May as well. Nice start today towards finishing the season.

[broncobum6162]

Christmas present = Beating the Bengals.

Thats my second gift. I just opened one a week early. I gotta save one for later dontcha know? :welcome:

[bloodsunday]

I certainly see all the things that people are talking about in Jay. The great thing is that he has progressed every week! Today he was spreading the ball all over the field. He needs to keep the ball a little higher to protect it from getting slapped at, but thats kinda nit-picky.

His performance lends credibility to those that say he should have been starting sooner. I still think making it his first start had an impact on that Seattle game (negatively toward the outcome), and we really could use that win right now. Perhaps if Cutler had started earlier he would have been a position to be a strength and not a liability in this playoff push.

Dare I say Popps was right? The KC game was the game to start him. Get the rookie jitters and rust out of the way. You had to think our odds at winning that game under the circumstances were slim and none anyway. That way if Jay progresses like he did in his first few starts maybe we actually beat Seattle.

Either way Bronco fans have much to look forward to.

[Northman]

The INT was ugly and he missed several throws, but he played a good game. I'll give him a B+. That defense still scares me though when teams start passing on us. Remember we were only playing the cardinals, so don't blow this W out of proportion. This was a game we were suppose to win.

It was nice to see the ST's do something for a change. Give Quincy another shot next week and see if he can keep the job full time.



This is all true but that is why you have to look at it from the Qb position itself to really gauge where the improvement has come in. Through 2 games Cutler has a 83.0 passer rating and after today's game it will most likely go up as it was his best game yet. And through the first 3 games in 2006 Jay has looked the best and yet is a rookie. Even though Jake was 2-1 in his first 3 starts the defense was also playing much better and was much healthier at that point. Through his first 3 games Jay has 6 Tds, 3 Ints with 592 yds passing. Jake had 2 Tds, 4 Ints with 567 yds passing. I know this was the Cardinals but there is no way Jake would have led this team to 37 points today the way he was playing this year. But this is why Shanny made the switch because he knew that overall Jake wasnt getting it done on his end.

[freak6]

Let's go Broncos!!!

I smell the playoffs!!!

Everyone that said starting Cutler was giving up on the season, eat your crow!!!

Those of us with the expertise and experiance to see what he brings to the Broncos have been proven right.

Joke Blunder could run MY AVATAR's play 20 times and he wouldn't be able to hit Javon in stride once.

In fact, we did run that EXACT play where Javon ran a corner post vs the Raiders, and Jake threw up a duck that Javon had to signal fair catch first before he hauled it in. If Schwiegart wasn't the worst Safety in the NFL it probably would have been picked, but it was single coverage so he caught it.

Jay Cutler just served notice to every safety and DC in the league, you don't cheat your safeties up to stop our running game or you will pay the ULTIMATE price, 6 points m__________s!

What else does that do, it will eventually lead to more big runs as those of us begging for the QB switch have been saying as the Safeties have to lay off the box.

GO BRONCOS!!!

[Rascal]

This is all true but that is why you have to look at it from the Qb position itself to really gauge where the improvement has come in. Through 2 games Cutler has a 83.0 passer rating and after today's game it will most likely go up as it was his best game yet. And through the first 3 games in 2006 Jay has looked the best and yet is a rookie. Even though Jake was 2-1 in his first 3 starts the defense was also playing much better and was much healthier at that point. Through his first 3 games Jay has 6 Tds, 3 Ints with 592 yds passing. Jake had 2 Tds, 4 Ints with 567 yds passing. I know this was the Cardinals but there is no way Jake would have led this team to 37 points today the way he was playing this year. But this is why Shanny made the switch because he knew that overall Jake wasnt getting it done on his end.

Why are you discussing Jake?

Jake had no influence in this game and his previous performance does not and should not affect the analysis of Jay.

Jay is our quarterback. Move on.

[SouthStndJunkie]

Hey knuckleheads. When you're done blowing each other over cutler you might...might just realize that we played the cardinals today.:welcome:

The Cardinals had won 3 out of their last 4 games coming into today.

They may not be great, but we took it to them on the road at a time when they had been winning some games.

[Garcia Bronco]

He didn't have a good game....he had a great game for his 3rd go, but it was the Cards. Statistiaclly speaking the bengalsare worse in pass defence

[theAPAOps5]

Man I was hoping this week would provide a respite from the Jay vs Jake debate.

Jay did exactly what I would hope he did today. He got better than he was last week. 103 passer rating today. So he has improved each week. Thats what I want to see. He made some nice passes again. I also like some of his incompletions as they were thrown so only the WR could catch it. Yeah the INT was very rookie like. Marshall may have ran a bad route but that hung up there and was just a bad decision. Proves he is still human. He had some happy feet in the pocket and didn't feel that one rush where he fumbled so he has stuff to work on. The weird double pump was not so present today. Great game for the rook. Now comes the biggest game of his career.

[theAPAOps5]

Hey knuckleheads. When you're done blowing each other over cutler you might...might just realize that we played the cardinals today.:welcome:

Damn it! DAMN IT! WE played the Cardinals today!? AH DAMN DAMN it all to hell. WOOOOOOOOO is me we are screwed! We layed it to a bad team. AAAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHHH we are screwed we only buried a bad team like we are supposed to. Pack it in, its done. :welcome:

A win is a win and Cutler looked good let us cheer our team and our QB.

[Popps]

A win is a win and Cutler looked good let us cheer our team and our QB.

A win is a win, no matter who is the QB, my friend.

This win is just a little sweeter because we're getting an early look at the future of the team.

Nice to see Jay have a breakout game. Another one next week would be even nicer.

[theAPAOps5]

A win is a win, no matter who is the QB, my friend.

This win is just a little sweeter because we're getting an early look at the future of the team.

Nice to see Jay have a breakout game. Another one next week would be even nicer.

Exactly Popps, thats why I chose to use QB rather than a name. Cutler is the QB now so I am cheering him on. If Plummer did this I would cheer him on just as much. I am tired of the constant debate. Its nice to see our QB step up and make some nice throws.

[baja]

Exactly Popps, thats why I chose to use QB rather than a name. Cutler is the QB now so I am cheering him on. If Plummer did this I would cheer him on just as much. I am tired of the constant debate. Its nice to see our QB step up and make some nice throws.

Did you notice how well Jake held the ball for Elam

[wabbit]

It's often spoken & written that the game is as much a mental exercise as it is physical...especially so for the QB position.

There is no better real-life demonstration of that than Cutler...his progression is remarkable.

I remember John Elway making the same maddening rookie mistakes over & over his rookie season (overcome many times due to his incredible physical skills) until he unloaded on the Colts late in the season...then again, his coach was "football aint no rocket science" Dan Reeves.

I don't see the repeat misjudgements with Cutler...he seems to learn volumes every game...even play to play.

For the first time this season, I'm having fun watching a guy like Cutler play, almost disregarding the play-off scenerio.

I have to admit, it is a considerably more comfortable/enjoyable experience than the 'cringe & hope' wishfest I felt with Plummer, even though I maintained the belief that Plummer was the best chance to win right up until he was replaced.

[theAPAOps5]

Did you notice how well Jake held the ball for Elam

I posted elsewhere his laces out rotation is magic.

Seriously though I would like to see Plummer in a fake and not a rainbow pass fake but a run and throw by him.

[Garcia Bronco]

It's often spoken & written that the game is as much a mental exercise as it is physical...especially so for the QB position.

There is no better real-life demonstration of that than Cutler...his progression is remarkable.

I remember John Elway making the same maddening rookie mistakes over & over his rookie season (overcome many times due to his incredible physical skills) until he unloaded on the Colts late in the season...then again, his coach was "football aint no rocket science" Dan Reeves.

I don't see the repeat misjudgements with Cutler...he seems to learn volumes every game...even play to play.

For the first time this season, I'm having fun watching a guy like Cutler play, almost disregarding the play-off scenerio.

I have to admit, it is a considerably more comfortable/enjoyable experience than the 'cringe & hope' wishfest I felt with Plummer, even though I maintained the belief that Plummer was the best chance to win right up until he was replaced.


It was the right time to make the change...and I too fell more mental relief watching Cutler

[SprintRightOption]

Cutler looked great today, a real glimpse at what could be an elite QB for many years. There is no crow to be eaten by me. My huge concern was throwing Cutler into a prime time must-win game for his first real action in 12 months, where his chances were doomed from the start. We had a better chance to win that Seattle game with Plummer, or if that game was Cutler's 3rd or 4th game.

We should've put Cutler in afte the 2nd raider game, so by Seattle he would have beaten that team without question. The kid at gotten substantially better each of these three games, and I think he can play as well as this week against a suspect Bengals defense.

We are winning these last 2 games. We finished 5-3 on the road, and every single Bronco team with a winning road record has made the playoffs and THAT'S NOT ENDING THIS YEAR!!

I think there is some shaking with fear in NE as Denver slides toward a possible 5 seed and a date with our personal property, the Patriots. HEHEHE

[Taco John]

It's often spoken & written that the game is as much a mental exercise as it is physical...especially so for the QB position.

There is no better real-life demonstration of that than Cutler...his progression is remarkable.

I remember John Elway making the same maddening rookie mistakes over & over his rookie season (overcome many times due to his incredible physical skills) until he unloaded on the Colts late in the season...then again, his coach was "football aint no rocket science" Dan Reeves.

I don't see the repeat misjudgements with Cutler...he seems to learn volumes every game...even play to play.

For the first time this season, I'm having fun watching a guy like Cutler play, almost disregarding the play-off scenerio.

I have to admit, it is a considerably more comfortable/enjoyable experience than the 'cringe & hope' wishfest I felt with Plummer, even though I maintained the belief that Plummer was the best chance to win right up until he was replaced.




Good post Wabbit. I thought Plummer was our best chance this season up until the preseason when we got to see Cutler dealing. That quick strike ability is the scorpion's tail that Jake simply doesn't have. And while Jay is going to make rookie mistakes, I'll bet none of us felt like the game was virtually over when he threw it. I had that feeling way too much the last two seasons.

I'm looking forward to making the tournament with Jay. I don't care if we win or lose there, I just want him to get a taste. But you know how it is once you're there. Dare to dream!

[Blueflame]

Cutler looked great today, a real glimpse at what could be an elite QB for many years. There is no crow to be eaten by me. My huge concern was throwing Cutler into a prime time must-win game for his first real action in 12 months, where his chances were doomed from the start. We had a better chance to win that Seattle game with Plummer, or if that game was Cutler's 3rd or 4th game.

We should've put Cutler in afte the 2nd raider game, so by Seattle he would have beaten that team without question. The kid at gotten substantially better each of these three games, and I think he can play as well as this week against a suspect Bengals defense.

We are winning these last 2 games. We finished 5-3 on the road, and every single Bronco team with a winning road record has made the playoffs and THAT'S NOT ENDING THIS YEAR!!

I think there is some shaking with fear in NE as Denver slides toward a possible 5 seed and a date with our personal property, the Patriots. HEHEHE\

Ah, yes... Belichick and the Brady Bunch are probably experiencing "puckered sphincter syndrome" at the mere idea of having to face the Broncos...

[theAPAOps5]

I want the Broncos to make the playoffs just so I get free games. My theory is anything after 16 we are getting free games a SB well thats like finding a $20 in your pocket 500 times!

[wabbit]

Good post Wabbit. I thought Plummer was our best chance this season up until the preseason when we got to see Cutler dealing. That quick strike ability is the scorpion's tail that Jake simply doesn't have. And while Jay is going to make rookie mistakes, I'll bet none of us felt like the game was virtually over when he threw it. I had that feeling way too much the last two seasons.

I'm looking forward to making the tournament with Jay. I don't care if we win or lose there, I just want him to get a taste. But you know how it is once you're there. Dare to dream!

Folks should remember that the Broncos also made the play-offs in Elway's first year...more in spite of him than because of his contributions.

That team also had a bevy of unhappy veterans who felt that their immediate future was being mortgaged to gain a rookie experience...Randy Gradishar retired after the '83 season, deciding the maturation of John might take longer than he could wait.

I've read posts here saying the Broncos were terrible when Elway arrived...they were anything but that....they suffered through a 2 & something strike season the year before when the vets couldn't get the mojo back after the walk-out, but the Broncos were pretty damned good, especially on defense.

Reeves also drafted for crap, so, with notable exceptions, Elway essentially took the the remnants of the '77 defensive group...with the addition of Vance Johnson & Gerald Wilhite to the '86 Super Bowl.

The fun thing is; these young guys like Cutler don't care that the odds are dead set against them. They just want to win.

Less calculation...more fun. It works for the good ones.

[Popps]

Cutler looked great today, a real glimpse at what could be an elite QB for many years. There is no crow to be eaten by me. My huge concern was throwing Cutler into a prime time must-win game for his first real action in 12 months, where his chances were doomed from the start. We had a better chance to win that Seattle game with Plummer, or if that game was Cutler's 3rd or 4th game.

I disagreed. I would have seen Cutler in a week earlier to shake off the rust since the rumor had broken anyway, and was likely to distract us. (And it did.)

But, Shanny agreed with you... and that's what counts. :thumbs:

Agree, man.. nice to see Jay stepping up with a pretty complete game today. I hope to god he can even improve on this next week. We'll need a TON of offense.

[Blueflame]

I disagreed. I would have seen Cutler in a week earlier to shake off the rust since the rumor had broken anyway, and was likely to distract us. (And it did.)

But, Shanny agreed with you... and that's what counts. :thumbs:

Agree, man.. nice to see Jay stepping up with a pretty complete game today. I hope to god he can even improve on this next week. We'll need a TON of offense.

I love those time-consuming drives... particularly those that end with 7 more Broncos points on the scoreboard. Every second that the offense is running the ball down the other team's throat, our injury-depleted defense is resting. And that's a good thing.

[Popps]

I love those time-consuming drives... particularly those that end with 7 more Broncos points on the scoreboard. Every second that the offense is running the ball down the other team's throat, our injury-depleted defense is resting. And that's a good thing.

Was just posting on another thread that I hope we can do that, and more next week. It's a bit of a shame that we've got to play "around" our defense, but that's just the way it is right now. No use denying it, better we try to come out with a game plan that focuses on beating up other teams with our offense.

These are times you wouldn't mind having Mike Anderson around, still. I'd love to see us really pound the ball on Cinci in the first half.

[Play2win]

The HAWK is a BAD-ASS

[freak6]

Straight Cotton Candy as usual, a bunch of words but still not representing anything of substance.

[Play2win]

He is THE HAWK... JAY always has been and always will be...

[Blueflame]

Was just posting on another thread that I hope we can do that, and more next week. It's a bit of a shame that we've got to play "around" our defense, but that's just the way it is right now. No use denying it, better we try to come out with a game plan that focuses on beating up other teams with our offense.

These are times you wouldn't mind having Mike Anderson around, still. I'd love to see us really pound the ball on Cinci in the first half.

Y'know, I'd love to see the team return to the run-first offense with the caveat that Cutler's arm has the power to keep the defense honest... ie: with the firepower and moxie necessary to put opposing DCs on notice that blitzing or stacking the box against the run could very well result in giving up a huge play)

[Kaylore]

It's often spoken & written that the game is as much a mental exercise as it is physical...especially so for the QB position.

There is no better real-life demonstration of that than Cutler...his progression is remarkable.

I remember John Elway making the same maddening rookie mistakes over & over his rookie season (overcome many times due to his incredible physical skills) until he unloaded on the Colts late in the season...then again, his coach was "football aint no rocket science" Dan Reeves.

I don't see the repeat misjudgements with Cutler...he seems to learn volumes every game...even play to play.

For the first time this season, I'm having fun watching a guy like Cutler play, almost disregarding the play-off scenerio.

I have to admit, it is a considerably more comfortable/enjoyable experience than the 'cringe & hope' wishfest I felt with Plummer, even though I maintained the belief that Plummer was the best chance to win right up until he was replaced.

That sums up my view of this season. Watching Jake play was upsetting and every time he dropped back I had this sick feeling that doom was coming.

Now the games are so much more fun to watch that it's almost enough just to watch it...almost. I still don't like the loses but as Cutler has improved almost exponentially each game, It's given me something else to enjoy regardless of the outcome.

Cutler is the kind of QB that will always give your team a chance to win. The kind that will scare defenses and that defensive backs will not be looking forward to playing.

It's a great time to be a Bronco fan. Get ready for the bandwagon fans. ;)

[Northman]

Why are you discussing Jake?

Jake had no influence in this game and his previous performance does not and should not affect the analysis of Jay.

Jay is our quarterback. Move on.



I have moved on, but you were downplaying the win.

[broncobum6162]

Dare I say Popps was right? The KC game was the game to start him. Get the rookie jitters and rust out of the way. You had to think our odds at winning that game under the circumstances were slim and none anyway. That way if Jay progresses like he did in his first few starts maybe we actually beat Seattle.

Either way Bronco fans have much to look forward to.

Looking back,(mom always said, "Hindsight is better than foreskin")
I think we should have played him sooner. I thought the 10 day period would be perfect timing, but the way this kid can play, we should have put him much sooner. Maybe even against the faders.

[chrisp]

That team also had a bevy of unhappy veterans who felt that their immediate future was being mortgaged to gain a rookie experience...Randy Gradishar retired after the '83 season, deciding the maturation of John might take longer than he could wait.

That was one of my concerns - the big thing about the win yesterday was that with 2 starts and 2 losses, whilst Jay had shown bags of great potential, some of the Vets like Lynch and Bailey - who really came here to win things now - may not have been quite so keen to wait for the rookie to develop.

I think it was always clear that Jay had more talent than Plummer. What wasn't so clear was if Shanny was right to say he gave us 'the best chance to win now'. Yesterday everything came together and we finally looked like we have a better chance at winning games with Cutler under center.

I was a Plummer defender right up untill a couple of games before he was benched - but even then I wasn't 100% convinced that the change was right this late in the season.

In a way, it doesn't really matter how much Cutler struggles in some tough upcoming games, as he's proven to the team that he can get the job done and lead them to victory. That should help pull the team together a little and get behind him. If they really get behind him, then he will even be able to screw up a little and still be 'their guy'. I think that before yesterday the jury may have been out on him to a certain extent.

[watermock]

I will keep my foreskin and keep looking forward thank you very much.

[bloodsunday]

It's often spoken & written that the game is as much a mental exercise as it is physical...especially so for the QB position.

There is no better real-life demonstration of that than Cutler...his progression is remarkable.

I remember John Elway making the same maddening rookie mistakes over & over his rookie season (overcome many times due to his incredible physical skills) until he unloaded on the Colts late in the season...then again, his coach was "football aint no rocket science" Dan Reeves.

I don't see the repeat misjudgements with Cutler...he seems to learn volumes every game...even play to play.

For the first time this season, I'm having fun watching a guy like Cutler play, almost disregarding the play-off scenerio.

I have to admit, it is a considerably more comfortable/enjoyable experience than the 'cringe & hope' wishfest I felt with Plummer, even though I maintained the belief that Plummer was the best chance to win right up until he was replaced.

Can I get an Amen?

[bloodsunday]

Cutler looked great today, a real glimpse at what could be an elite QB for many years. There is no crow to be eaten by me. My huge concern was throwing Cutler into a prime time must-win game for his first real action in 12 months, where his chances were doomed from the start. We had a better chance to win that Seattle game with Plummer, or if that game was Cutler's 3rd or 4th game.

We should've put Cutler in afte the 2nd raider game, so by Seattle he would have beaten that team without question. The kid at gotten substantially better each of these three games, and I think he can play as well as this week against a suspect Bengals defense.

We are winning these last 2 games. We finished 5-3 on the road, and every single Bronco team with a winning road record has made the playoffs and THAT'S NOT ENDING THIS YEAR!!

I think there is some shaking with fear in NE as Denver slides toward a possible 5 seed and a date with our personal property, the Patriots. HEHEHE
I agree with you. It HAS NEVER BEEN JAY vs JAKE FOR ME.

My focus has always been to get in the playoffs and it appears now that it was Jay, but about 6 weeks ago. I still believe that we could have won the Seattle game if either a) Jake had played or b) Jay had played sooner. And that win was an important one at this stage.

But we are learning a lot about Cutler. If he can get us in the playoffs -- WOW! We'll have to get shades the future is so bright.

[errand]

come on errand , you know better , Cutler is consistent , Jake is erratic as Colorado weather .......................
Sure the team has serious problems in other areas , so whats wrong with developing a young QB and finding out what you have now , instead of waiting next year ?
now Shanny can focus on the Dline , and special teams , though I suspect Denvers D will get alot better now that we can sustain drives ..........

I'm not blasting Cutler. He's a potential franchise QB that despite our need for a dominant DE was too good to pass up if available. I never had a problem with playing him, I had a problem with doing it when we were 7-4 and still in the hunt. History suggests vets outplay rooks, and QB shuffles rarely generate playoff teams....that's all I'm saying. This one might work out for us, we'll have to wait another two weeks to find out.

Yes, we still are in the hunt, but we needed other teams to lose before we could get back in it. This doesn't mean if Jake had played, we'd have won the two games we lost under Cutler. I'm just as excited about the '07 version of the Broncos as anyone else.

Our team will get better as will the O if they can run the ball, and protect the QB...and stop the run, pressure the opposing QB. This was like Popps said, a complete game win. Every facet of the team showed up today save for Tatum Bell.

And who knows perhaps this move will spark us onto a title. Weirder things have happened before. If our team plays the rest of the year like we did vs Cards, we will be a dangerous team come playoff time.

[Merlin]

I thought he should have been brought in right after the SD game. By then it was clear how bad the D was, and that the rest of the season would be better served developing the rookie. I did not think he could carrie us into the playoffs, but I thought it would do him a world of good form next yr. I thought it was funny how people were predicting he would be great against Seattle (SoCal went as far as predicting that Shanny would open up the playbook, with a rookie in his first game!).

However, I could have never foreseen him mature so quickly after 3 games. Yes it was Arizona, but they have been playing much better the past 3 games (and beat Seattle, which we could not). In fact, Rothlessburger never had a game like that in his first season, much less his third game (and I'm pretty sure he did not even in his second full season, although he did play very well against Denver in the playoff). If he keeps maturing without regressing, next season should be great. I only wish they would use some more blitz packages this yr, then I would imagine we would even have a chance to cause damage this yr.

[Spider]

I'm not blasting Cutler. He's a potential franchise QB that despite our need for a dominant DE was too good to pass up if available. I never had a problem with playing him, I had a problem with doing it when we were 7-4 and still in the hunt. History suggests vets outplay rooks, and QB shuffles rarely generate playoff teams....that's all I'm saying. This one might work out for us, we'll have to wait another two weeks to find out.
fair enough , my point is , we have holes everywhere , might aswell prep the Rook for next season when we address our problems and not face QB growing pains , but the speed Cutler is porgressing at , we could have started him next year also ............

Yes, we still are in the hunt, but we needed other teams to lose before we could get back in it. This doesn't mean if Jake had played, we'd have won the two games we lost under Cutler. I'm just as excited about the '07 version of the Broncos as anyone else.
I dont think we have to wait for someone to lose , we have t owin out

Our team will get better as will the O if they can run the ball, and protect the QB...and stop the run, pressure the opposing QB. This was like Popps said, a complete game win. Every facet of the team showed up today save for Tatum Bell.

And who knows perhaps this move will spark us onto a title. Weirder things have happened before. If our team plays the rest of the year like we did vs Cards, we will be a dangerous team come playoff time.
tis good to be Bronco fan ...........;D

[Spider]

However, I could have never foreseen him mature so quickly after 3 games. Yes it was Arizona, but they have been playing much better the past 3 games (and beat Seattle, which we could not). In fact, Rothlessburger never had a game like that in his first season, much less his third game (and I'm pretty sure he did not even in his second full season, although he did play very well against Denver in the playoff). If he keeps maturing without regressing, next season should be great. I only wish they would use some more blitz packages this yr, then I would imagine we would even have a chance to cause damage this yr.

i dont think any of us did , I was willing to miss the playoffs to develop Cutler , but now I think the Kid just wins , makes it look easy , and it is clear the rest of the team is feeding off of that .

[errand]

You just can't live with yourself unless you get a negative dig in right Gonzo? Can't you just be happy with the win. It sucks to be you today I know but can't you just savor a good win?

You'll have to forgive him. This is the result of having to read numerous threads of how Jake sucked despite winning 75% of his starts and taking us to the playoffs 3 consecutive seasons.

It seems there were tons of fans on here who despite those accomplishments who couldn't or wouldn't "savor" any of those wins because Jake was the QB under center....which is pretty ignorant if you asked me.

I just cannot understand people dismissing Jake's accomplishments like they never happened. We all know Cutler is the future of this team and is progressing nicely so far. Hopefully, he can take us to the next level. But having said that, I'm not gonna trash Craig Morton because he wasn't John Elway. Jake was a good QB for us, Jay hopefully will be a better one.

[watermock]

I find it amusing some people are now saying we should of made the move 7 weeks ago.

It's exactly what I said. There were some lone wolves crying for a change two months ago. Look, you couldn't make the change till we dropped two in a row to inferior opponents.

We didn't exactly ease Jay into his spot...heh...we throw him right into the fire. We win sunday, we likely make the playoffs, if not, we have a vet QB coming back. Win/Win

[errand]

Yep. Just like we were saying, even after a win where Jake did everything he could to give the game away. Nice to no longer have him around our necks.

For someone who defended the franchise's biggest albatross @ QB for 4 years, you have no room to blast anyone defending Jake, or any other Broncos QB for that matter.

At least Jake won alot more than he lost, and took the team to the playoffs 3 times. What did your albatross ever accomplish besides giving the entire city of Denver a big ulcer?

[errand]

I find it amusing some people are now saying we should of made the move 7 weeks ago.

It's exactly what I said. There were some lone wolves crying for a change two months ago. Look, you couldn't make the change till we dropped two in a row to inferior opponents.

We didn't exactly ease Jay into his spot...heh...we throw him right into the fire. We win sunday, we likely make the playoffs, if not, we have a vet QB coming back. Win/Win

Can't blame people for saying things like that Mock. It makes sense when they see the kid making good progress, they can't help but wonder aloud what might have been had he started two months ago. Granted he's just scratched the surface and is giving us a small taste of the future. It looks bright so far. Barring injury we should be set at the QB position for the next decade.

However I recall people saying the same things about Griese. He was so-so his first season as a starter, but his 2nd season where he tossed 19 TD's vs $ ints made alot of people jump on the bandwagon thinking we would contend for several years to come. He injured his shoulder and was never the same guy. He also exhibited few if any leadership traits that the QB position demands.

Bronco fans everywhere should be excited about the kid's play so far. I also have confidence that if called upon, Jake can help us win as well. Win / win situation if you ask me.

[errand]

A win is a win, no matter who is the QB, my friend.

This win is just a little sweeter because we're getting an early look at the future of the team.

Nice to see Jay have a breakout game. Another one next week would be even nicer.

Exactly. Some on here thought think the season began 3 games ago. I wonder if we do make the playoffs, if Jake will get any credit for the 7 wins we had prior to this past week.

I'm glad we are starting to put together a complete game, both sides of the ball and special teams. We'll be facing a Cincinnati Bengals team that has allowed only 33 points the past 4 games (not counting tonight's Colts contest) and looks alot better than they did early in the season. Ditto for the 49ers, they came from behind to upset Seattle.

Still I'm optimistic as the games are at home, and our young gun is playing with more confidence and less tenative than in his first two starts.

[BroncoBuff]

Bring on the Bengals.

... and their 32nd ranked pass defense!
.

[BroncoBuff]

So chances are now Shanahan is going to have to really concentrate on defense ( if money allows us ) and hope the Jay progresses quickly.
Jay is already proving a quick learner ... and I think you over-dramatize the defensive needs. Imho, we're set on offense, and just need maybe three guys on defense:

A pass-rushing DE (we might already have him in Elvis)
A solid DT for the rotation (maybe a veteran FA like Big Daddy)
A big-hitter SS - like BT/DS49/Atwater/KenoyIt'd also be nice to have a playmaker at Will LB, like Merriman or Porter ... Ian Gold is fast, but never makes plays, and in '04 when DJ was the Will, he made very few plays. A Will LB needs to make two big plays a game - tackle for loss, pass defended .... heaven forbid a sack?

We might need 2 DEs though .... because Shanny had big praise for Ekuban back as DT vs. Arizona - that was the #1 reason he gave for the pass rush being so good. If Ekuban goes permanent at DT, then we neeed TWO new DEs ... to replace Ebenezer and I hope Engelberger.



From the *SIGH* department ... Trevor Pryce had TWO SACKS Sunday (and two ff) which gives him 9 1/2 sacks for the year ...

::) *SIGH* Uhh
.

[Mile High Mojoe]

It's often spoken & written that the game is as much a mental exercise as it is physical...especially so for the QB position.

There is no better real-life demonstration of that than Cutler...his progression is remarkable.

I remember John Elway making the same maddening rookie mistakes over & over his rookie season (overcome many times due to his incredible physical skills) until he unloaded on the Colts late in the season...then again, his coach was "football aint no rocket science" Dan Reeves.

I don't see the repeat misjudgements with Cutler...he seems to learn volumes every game...even play to play.

For the first time this season, I'm having fun watching a guy like Cutler play, almost disregarding the play-off scenerio.

I have to admit, it is a considerably more comfortable/enjoyable experience than the 'cringe & hope' wishfest I felt with Plummer, even though I maintained the belief that Plummer was the best chance to win right up until he was replaced.I'm new to the site and haven't seen you post before but this is one of the best posts I've read on this thread. You took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you. To me though Jake should have been removed much sooner, like after the 2nd Raiders game.

[BroncoBuff]

mojoe, you have good taste. Wabbit is - by consensus - one of the very top posters here.

[Mile High Mojoe]

mojoe, you have good taste. Wabbit is - by consensus - one of the very top posters here.I have to agree, he wrote exactly the way I feel, I wish I could express it in the way he does. I'm just a Wyoming Bubba but I try.

[errand]

From the *SIGH* department ... Trevor Pryce had TWO SACKS Sunday (and two ff) which gives him 9 1/2 sacks for the year ...

::) *SIGH* Uhh
.

Not to mention the losses of Heyward and Berry who have both went on to have pretty good seasons elsewhere.

[Popps]

From the *SIGH* department ... Trevor Pryce had TWO SACKS Sunday (and two ff) which gives him 9 1/2 sacks for the year ...

::) *SIGH* Uhh
.

Yep, three invisible years in our system and then he's on the verge of a Pro Bowl in another.

Don't ask questions, though.

[Taco John]

Yep, three invisible years in our system and then he's on the verge of a Pro Bowl in another.

Don't ask questions, though.



Wasn't it your take before he left that he was an overpaid piece of crap?

[Mile High Mojoe]

Wasn't it your take before he left that he was an overpaid piece of crap?He was an overpaid piece of crap. The last 2 years he played in Denver his game didn't even come close to the big bucks contract. To me it was a good move, he wasn't worth the price.

[Northman]

Jay is already proving a quick learner ... and I think you over-dramatize the defensive needs. Imho, we're set on offense, and just need maybe three guys on defense:

A pass-rushing DE (we might already have him in Elvis)
A solid DT for the rotation (maybe a veteran FA like Big Daddy)
A big-hitter SS - like BT/DS49/Atwater/KenoyIt'd also be nice to have a playmaker at Will LB, like Merriman or Porter ... Ian Gold is fast, but never makes plays, and in '04 when DJ was the Will, he made very few plays. A Will LB needs to make two big plays a game - tackle for loss, pass defended .... heaven forbid a sack?

We might need 2 DEs though .... because Shanny had big praise for Ekuban back as DT vs. Arizona - that was the #1 reason he gave for the pass rush being so good. If Ekuban goes permanent at DT, then we neeed TWO new DEs ... to replace Ebenezer and I hope Engelberger.



From the *SIGH* department ... Trevor Pryce had TWO SACKS Sunday (and two ff) which gives him 9 1/2 sacks for the year ...

::) *SIGH* Uhh
.



Im not overdramatizing it as i agree with everything you posted. But, i will say we need a upgrade on the Oline. It isnt going to cut it for the long haul and we need to add some beef there otherwise Jay will be running for his life just like Jake was. Plus, it will help improve the run game even more.

[elsid13]

BroncoBuff no offense but the days of the big hitting safety is done, what we need is a guy that can cover and has speed. If he can hit that great but I rather have guy that play center field and recover when our corners get to aggressive.

[usedupbraids]

BroncoBuff no offense but the days of the big hitting safety is done, what we need is a guy that can cover and has speed. If he can hit that great but I rather have guy that play center field and recover when our corners get to aggressive.

Mike Lewis from the eagles will be a free agent next year :spit: :spit: :spit:

[Popps]

Wasn't it your take before he left that he was an overpaid piece of crap?

Absolutely. No one disappeared in big games like that guy.

But, the fact remains... he's not disappearing now. 9.5 sacks and people are talking about him as a Pro Bowl talent again?

Nothing to do with coaching or the system, right? All Trevor?

Guess he just didn't want to play here.

But, wait... I guess that's kind of related to coaching, too.

Maybe it was just the thin air or something.

[Taco John]

Trevor Pryce is a POS and I don't care if he decided to motivate himself now that he's split Denver. He's gutless, and he'll prove it when it counts.

[Popps]

Could be.

But, someone else got that POS to show up for 9 sacks and he's apparently living in people's backfields, and at a discount to what we were paying him.

[Taco John]

Good for Trevor. Hopefully he feels up for playing in the postseason, and doesn't decide to sit one out like he did for us a couple years ago.

[Northman]

Absolutely. No one disappeared in big games like that guy.

But, the fact remains... he's not disappearing now. 9.5 sacks and people are talking about him as a Pro Bowl talent again?

Nothing to do with coaching or the system, right? All Trevor?

Guess he just didn't want to play here.

But, wait... I guess that's kind of related to coaching, too.

Maybe it was just the thin air or something.


Obviously, there are a few factors in his resurgence this year. One is the rest of the talent around him and there is quite a bit so he doesnt get the double teams like he used to in Denver. Secondly, he has a chip on his shoulder as he was disgruntled leaving Denver. I do find it ironic that when we played him he was nowhere to be found that night. It wont be long before Trevor finds himself back to his old ways in Bmore. But right now he is just excited to be playing in a new arena but that will wear off just like it did in Denver.

[Mile High Shack]

Obviously, there are a few factors in his resurgence this year. One is the rest of the talent around him and there is quite a bit so he doesnt get the double teams like he used to in Denver. Secondly, he has a chip on his shoulder as he was disgruntled leaving Denver. I do find it ironic that when we played him he was nowhere to be found that night. It wont be long before Trevor finds himself back to his old ways in Bmore. But right now he is just excited to be playing in a new arena but that will wear off just like it did in Denver.

I hope so, b/c as of right now, we look pretty stupid for letting him go when you look at our Dline

[baja]

I remember reading in a couple of different articles if yo read between lines that Trevor did not have much respect for Coyer and the way he used Trevor in his scheme. Coyer himself said in hindsight he demanded too much of Trevor.

[Mile High Shack]

I remember reading in a couple of different articles if yo read between lines that Trevor did not have much respect for Coyer and the way he used Trevor in his scheme. Coyer himself said in hindsight he demanded too much of Trevor.

I heard that too

which again, goes further to prove my point :)