Do the fade have a better D than Denver?

[azbroncfan]

Watching the game today fade's D is pretty good, they get after it on the DL. THeir DL is obviously better than Denvers but they are good at LB and Secondary and very young at both. Not looking forward to that D next few years and hopefully their O remains pitiful.

[Mile High Shack]

yes

our defense is the worst in the AFC West, said that for about 6 weeks now :)

[69bronco]

I'd say the fade have one of the best defenses in the AFC. So definatly yea

[Crushaholic]

Absolutely. I've been saying for weeks that Oakland's defense is very good. People just chose to ignore that and continued to believe Oakland is a bad team. Their problem is that they don't know how to seal the deal. The Raiders are the biggest choke artists of any team this year...

[Dudeskey]

Unfortunately-

y.. ye.. yes

[broncofan]

Yes. Luckily their offense is one of the worst I've ever seen...if not the worst.

[Popps]

The the raiders can line up against a team like San Diego and not embarrass themselves, defensively.

Now THERE is a team that can legitimately blame their own offense for losing against the Chargers.

We had a 24-7 lead and ended up with 27 total points... and our defense just curled up in the fetal position and let SD walk all over them.

But, nothing new there. We pretty much do that any time we face a real offense.

Guys like Lang, Dumervil, Gold, Williams and others who look fancy against teams like Cleveland are absolutely invisible when faced up against offensive stars like LT, LJ, Manning, etc.

Let's just break this down as easy as we can...

Our defense has:

1 Superstar

1 Very good but undersized middle LB

1 Savvy, above average vet.....

and a bunch of on and off, rotational types and mid-level players.

Add to that a coordinator who has basically admitted he's done things wrong in the past and is trying to fix that (read, learn on the job) and you've got some real problems.

We DO have some speed... and we do have a few guys that can make plays. But, this is a defense, like the Colts... that will need to be PROTECTED by its offense. Shanahan has coached AROUND this defense in crucial situations.

Yes, I realize they held offenses like struggling St. Louis, Cleveland, Oakland, beat-up K.C to field goals. No one is saying that we're terrible.

What people are realizing (or admitting) now is that this is a shaky defense with some major holes if the offense isn't protecting it.

It's been that way for years. Only now, instead of Trevor Pryce disappearing in big games, it's "Big Money."

So, our hopes this season really do rest on Cutler being a savior, like that or not. Because, if he's not perfect... and we have to rely on this defense to protect a 4th quarter lead... as we did against SD and Indy.... we're ****ed.

[Orange_Beard]

It took about 5 games to come together but today they do.

[Kaylore]

They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.

[Man-Goblin]

I'm not sure about more talented...I haven't sat down and looked at every position. But they do have a better defense. Best in the division, as I said in another thread.

[DB84FAN]

among the 4 afc west, they do have the best D. we are 3rd in our own division in defense

[theAPAOps5]

They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.

Agreed right now they are better. But you didn't hear this talk about our D when we beat both NE and the Ravens. They were doing pretty darn good and then injuries hit. We need to address the DLine a little but our LB corps is still fast as all get out and tops in the league. We have one great CB and one decent one. The safety position has taken hits but were pretty darn good. Our drop in D is a result of injuries and lack of total depth. Heck I think our D comes out and plays just nasty Sunday night after the much needed rest.

[Kaylore]

I'm not sure about more talented...I haven't sat down and looked at every position. But they do have a better defense. Best in the division, as I said in another thread.

I thought the thread said "D-line" for some reason. We do have some talented people but I've decided that our "let's let them do their thing and hope they make a mistake" philosophy isn't a very good one. We need to play more physical with our opponents and get some man beasts up front who can do that.

[Taco John]

They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.



Hysterical is right.

[ZachKC]

I think its pretty incredible when you think about all the bad positions they are put in by that offense.

Pretty impressive.

[boltaneer]

Having McCardell out was bigger than most people will make out of it. He's not getting the TDs this year but his experience and clutch play are huge. Eric Parker is a nice number two receiver but he's not the type to be able to shoulder the load.

Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd have a long way to go. Their route running was terrible today and couldn't get a lot of seperation.

Gotta hand it to Oakland though. Both sides of their line outplayed the Chargers for most of the game. Their secondary played great though.

[Killericon]

2 weeks ago, we were either the best defense in the league, or the 2nd best, depending on if the person you were talking to was from Chicago.

No.

[theAPAOps5]

Having McCardell out was bigger than most people will make out of it. He's not getting the TDs this year but his experience and clutch play are huge. Eric Parker is a nice number two receiver but he's not the type to be able to shoulder the load.

Vincent Jackson and Malcom Floyd have a long way to go. Their route running was terrible today and couldn't get a lot of seperation.

Gotta hand it to Oakland though. Both sides of their line outplayed the Chargers for most of the game. Their secondary played great though.

When you are coming off two very emotional games you are bound for a let down. SD played pretty bad on offense but once again they made plays when needed. Although you have to agree that was a pretty lame call on Nate Jackson and a forward pass.

[Al Wilson]

Our defense is good. The problem is that they don't last long if the offense isn't moving the chains. For most of the first half against KC, the defense was on the field for more than 2/3 of the time. But that is no excuse if you consider yourself an elite defense. The defense is shaky sometimes, but some of the blame falls on Coyer(and the players too).

[theAPAOps5]

I think its pretty incredible when you think about all the bad positions they are put in by that offense.

Pretty impressive.

I agree, Denver's O has been too inconsistent. They have turned it over too much or have not made key plays. A D is going to get worn out eventually. The D played lights our for a good amount of the games but after injuries and having to constantly play on short fields it catches up. Also remember the special teams has been anemic at best. The D can only do so much other sides of the team have to step up.

[theAPAOps5]

Coyer also relents too much. Given a lead he drops back into a zone or prevent. That is the Denver Defensive weakness. He needs to leanr to go for the throat.

[Man-Goblin]

I thought the thread said "D-line" for some reason. We do have some talented people but I've decided that our "let's let them do their thing and hope they make a mistake" philosophy isn't a very good one. We need to play more physical with our opponents and get some man beasts up front who can do that.

Well, the Broncos are locked into Warren for the long haul. Maybe we can convince a DT to eat him, put that DT in the middle with another hogmolly and see what happens?

Personally, I think Warren is fine; good DT but he needs help at the other inside position to make a push. They're problem is the ends, which may, or may not, require some man boobs.

[ludo21]

They have a more talented one, but we're not as bad as the hysterical people here are making it out to be.



no doubt.

Our D isnt NEAR as bad as some people claim them to be. They have folded for sure, but they also have made plays to give the offense.

[Breck Bronc]

They've definitely got a better defensive line. In the middle Warren Sapp is having a Comeback Player of the Year-type season and Tommy Kelly is playing good football. The unfortunately named Terdell Sands is a solid DT backup for Sapp and Kelly. Derrick Burgess is better at DE than anything we have, and Tyler Brayton is adept at kneeing guys in the balls.

Oakland doesn't have anybody in their secondary as good as Champ Bailey, but as a unit Nnamdi Asomugha, Fabian Washington, Michael Huff and Stuart Schweigert are playing as good as any back 4 in the league.

Denver probably has the better linebacker trio, though Gold, Williams and Wilson haven't done well the last two games.

[maven]

Watching the game today fade's D is pretty good, they get after it on the DL. THeir DL is obviously better than Denvers but they are good at LB and Secondary and very young at both. Not looking forward to that D next few years and hopefully their O remains pitiful.

They have a very nice young overall defense. If I ran the Raiders, I would continue and draft for their defense. Their defense definately has potential to be the best in the NFL. The Raiders would be smart to add more pieces via the draft and FA.

[Atlas]

The raiders defense is pretty good. probably better than Denver's.

That being said people are going to see a much improved Denver defense if the offense can actually start putting some drives together.

All the gloom and doom predictions on this site is silly. If the offense starts moving the ball and putting up 20+ points a game the defense will play much better.

[Mile High Shack]

LOL

hysterical people eh?

man, I have to remember that giving up 28 points to a team in the 2nd half is a GOOD thing...oooo dopey me

:)

[Popps]

But you didn't hear this talk about our D when we beat both NE and the Ravens.

Both teams were definitely struggling. McNair was finding his place in the offense, and remember... had Bailey not made (another) game changing INT in the endzone, that game could have gone differently. New England looks like a night and day team since we played them.

Neither is what I'm talking about when I say a top, or elite offense, either.

Look, we all know we're a playoff team almost every year. Thank Shanahan for that. So, the next step is to judge this team by what they do in big games against top offenses.

Our defense has regularly failed, usually in ugly fashion against top offenses.

Again, we played two "test" games for the defense this year and gave up over 30 ppg. Then, we line up against an elite RB and he just runs over us.

I just can't wait for the day that we don't need our offense to protect our defense any longer. It is an EXCEPTION, not a norm that a team wins a Superbowl under those conditions.

Though, I will say... Manning and the Colts could get it done this year. They have a chance to win a SB with one of the worst defenses of any SB team I can remember in a long time.

But, they had that chance last year, and a real... playoff-style football team got a hold of them. (Just like the years before.) Just when you think there aren't any teams like that this year.... here come the Ravens.

They're playing insane defense and pounding people with the run game. That's how you get it done in the playoffs... not trying to win with basketball scores because your defense can't hold up.

[theAPAOps5]

Popps you make a great point... I wish I could quit you!

[Northman]

Both teams were definitely struggling. McNair was finding his place in the offense, and remember... had Bailey not made (another) game changing INT in the endzone, that game could have gone differently. New England looks like a night and day team since we played them.

Neither is what I'm talking about when I say a top, or elite offense, either.

Look, we all know we're a playoff team almost every year. Thank Shanahan for that. So, the next step is to judge this team by what they do in big games against top offenses.

Our defense has regularly failed, usually in ugly fashion against top offenses.

Again, we played two "test" games for the defense this year and gave up over 30 ppg. Then, we line up against an elite RB and he just runs over us.

I just can't wait for the day that we don't need our offense to protect our defense any longer. It is an EXCEPTION, not a norm that a team wins a Superbowl under those conditions.

Though, I will say... Manning and the Colts could get it done this year. They have a chance to win a SB with one of the worst defenses of any SB team I can remember in a long time.

But, they had that chance last year, and a real... playoff-style football team got a hold of them. (Just like the years before.) Just when you think there aren't any teams like that this year.... here come the Ravens.

They're playing insane defense and pounding people with the run game. That's how you get it done in the playoffs... not trying to win with basketball scores because your defense can't hold up.



Good points, but ill tell you what. I would take my chances with a offense that can put up 30 points a game with a defense like ours. People do tend to easily forget that in both the Chargers and Indy game the defense held them to 7 points in the first half. So it is plausible for this defense to get it done. We just need more consistency on the offensive side of the ball. We have the ability to create turnovers as we showed in the Pitt and Ravens game so im not as down on the defense as i am on the offense. Hopefully, we can get a spark out Jay and right this ship overall.

[Atlas]

Good points, but ill tell you what. I would take my chances with a offense that can put up 30 points a game with a defense like ours. People do tend to easily forget that in both the Chargers and Indy game the defense held them to 7 points in the first half. So it is plausible for this defense to get it done. We just need more consistency on the offensive side of the ball.


That's a good point.

Although look at the defensive teams denver has played this year.

The Pats, Ravens, Steelers, Browns and Raiders.

Denver is 5-0 against them

Denver is 0-2 against the offensive teams they have played.

[OrangeShadow]

well i think they have a better Dline and thats where it all starts

[Rascal]

Both teams were definitely struggling. McNair was finding his place in the offense, and remember... had Bailey not made (another) game changing INT in the endzone, that game could have gone differently. New England looks like a night and day team since we played them.

Neither is what I'm talking about when I say a top, or elite offense, either.

Look, we all know we're a playoff team almost every year. Thank Shanahan for that. So, the next step is to judge this team by what they do in big games against top offenses.

Our defense has regularly failed, usually in ugly fashion against top offenses.

Again, we played two "test" games for the defense this year and gave up over 30 ppg. Then, we line up against an elite RB and he just runs over us.

I just can't wait for the day that we don't need our offense to protect our defense any longer. It is an EXCEPTION, not a norm that a team wins a Superbowl under those conditions.

Though, I will say... Manning and the Colts could get it done this year. They have a chance to win a SB with one of the worst defenses of any SB team I can remember in a long time.

But, they had that chance last year, and a real... playoff-style football team got a hold of them. (Just like the years before.) Just when you think there aren't any teams like that this year.... here come the Ravens.

They're playing insane defense and pounding people with the run game. That's how you get it done in the playoffs... not trying to win with basketball scores because your defense can't hold up.

Yeap, and until the defense can prevent those offenses from going ape**** we will continue to lose them. But it's all Cutler's fault.

[TheReverend]

We have a better defense... they just have a much better coordinator.

[Rock Chalk]

Blaming our offense for our defensive problems.

Oaklands offense is the most pathetic in recent memory, yet their D who is on the field a lot, didnt fold against SD like ours did.

Anyone think we would have made a stop, maybe two, if we had Oaklands D playing against Indy or SD? I think so. That puts us at 9-2 instead of 7-4.

Our D cost us two games, our offense cost us two games and yet, our offense is getting blamed for all the games. Even the Indy game, it was because Jake fumbled the ball.

Its not hysterical, our D is overrated. They dont suck, but they arent an elite D. They are a good D until real competition shows up and then, they are average.

[TheReverend]

Its not hysterical, our D is overrated. They dont suck, but they arent an elite D. They are a good D until real competition shows up and then, they are average.

I disagree... I think we have a phenomenal defense, we just happen to have a horrible coordinator. We had that "real" competition on the ropes in both halftimes. The "real" competition has coaches that adjust, we don't. We have a coordinator that belongs back in the college game.

[azbroncfan]

I disagree... I think we have a phenomenal defense, we just happen to have a horrible coordinator. We had that "real" competition on the ropes in both halftimes. The "real" competition has coaches that adjust, we don't. We have a coordinator that belongs back in the college game.

For the scrubs on the DL. You are only as good as the line is on both sides of the ball. S is a concern area too. I think the D is a good D depending on matchup and average to sucks against high power pass happy O's.

[bpc]

I'll say this straight up. Right now, man for man, they are playing tougher than our guys. We are bending over right now and making excuses. The Raiders are just going out and playing football. They aren't talking to the media about "how come we aren't compared with the Bears of 85'" blah blah blah.

They are just manning up and playing fundamental football. We were doing a good job of that in the first four weeks of the season. Now only Champ and Al are coming to play, the rest are whining and complaining about injuries...