Mane Law: Jay Cutler gets 2 years before being called a bust

[TheDave]

This got brought up in another thread....

All right since it looks like it is finally going to happen (Jay Cutler starting), can we all agree to give him 2 full seasons before anyone starts calling him a bust. We all know that he is going to have moments of greatness followed closely by moments of absolute idiocy... Lets give the kid a chance before we start begging to draft a replacement.


How 'bout it, Mane Law.... Mane Law


Once this is agreed upon we need to get Old Dude to write it in the book :approve:

[BMF Bronco]

This got brought up in another thread....

All right since it looks like it is finally going to happen (Jay Cutler starting), can we all agree to give him 2 full seasons before anyone starts calling him a bust. We all know that he is going to have moments of greatness followed closely by moments of absolute idiocy... Lets give the kid a chance before we start begging to draft a replacement.


How 'bout it, Mane Law.... Mane Law


Once this is agreed upon we need to get Old Dude to write it in the book :approve:

**** that! for all you bastards that are calling for him now, I say you stick to your balls and man up if he sucks. If he pulls a Warner/Brady/Worthlessburger, I will eat my own words. But he HAS to produce this year and if he doesn't, crow shall be eaten!

[epicSocialism4tw]

This is Denver, Dave.

He will be held to the standard of Elway right off the bat, and will sink or swim accordingly.

[RMANCIL]

This got brought up in another thread....

All right since it looks like it is finally going to happen (Jay Cutler starting), can we all agree to give him 2 full seasons before anyone starts calling him a bust. We all know that he is going to have moments of greatness followed closely by moments of absolute idiocy... Lets give the kid a chance before we start begging to draft a replacement.


How 'bout it, Mane Law.... Mane Law


Once this is agreed upon we need to get Old Dude to write it in the book :approve:

You do realize that if in fact you did that that 80% of your posters would have nothing to talk about.

Of course on the flip side the board would actually work after a game.

[TheDave]

This is Denver, Dave.

He will be held to the standard of Elway right off the bat, and will sink or swim accordingly.

I'm fine with that as long as it's rookie Elway... I'm pretty sure he won't line up under left gaurd

[Taco John]

I'm with you TheDave. That's what I gave Plummer. I think two full seasons is a fair amount of time to evaluate a player's ability. We'll know by that time if Cutler has it in him, or if he's another pretender.

[Rock Chalk]

**** that! for all you bastards that are calling for him now, I say you stick to your balls and man up if he sucks. If he pulls a Warner/Brady/Worthlessburger, I will eat my own words. But he HAS to produce this year and if he doesn't, crow shall be eaten!

If he costs us games and we fail to make the playoffs due to Cutler, Im going to tear him adn every ****in asshat on this site a new one.

Of course, THEN it will be the defense's fault, not Cutlers. As opposed to when we lose with Jake its his fault and not the defense for failing to show up in the second half.

[Spider]

Mane law it is ............

[BMF Bronco]

If he costs us games and we fail to make the playoffs due to Cutler, Im going to tear him adn every ****in asshat on this site a new one.

Of course, THEN it will be the defense's fault, not Cutlers. As opposed to when we lose with Jake its his fault and not the defense for failing to show up in the second half.

precisely! I am right with you!

[Taco John]

If he costs us games and we fail to make the playoffs due to Cutler, Im going to tear him adn every ****in asshat on this site a new one.

Of course, THEN it will be the defense's fault, not Cutlers. As opposed to when we lose with Jake its his fault and not the defense for failing to show up in the second half.




Seems like you might be one of them there "agenda" folks that ole Popps likes to talk about, aye there Tex?

[TheDave]

If he costs us games and we fail to make the playoffs due to Cutler, Im going to tear him adn every ****in asshat on this site a new one.

Of course, THEN it will be the defense's fault, not Cutlers. As opposed to when we lose with Jake its his fault and not the defense for failing to show up in the second half.

Alec we would be dissapointed if you did anything different... :thumbsup:

[DeusExManning]

3 years is reasonable. I am looking for leadership, low turnover ratio. A QB rating above 90.

[BMF Bronco]

Seems like you might be one of them there "agenda" folks that ole Popps likes to talk about, aye there Tex?

nope, just not an anti-anyone but cutler and elway such as yourself TJ

you cant give me that **** that you have given Jake a fair shake at all, I have been on this board for a year and a half and you have done nothing but call for his head in all but ONE thread you've created.

[Kaylore]

precisely! I am right with you!

I'm wondering if you, Alec, Sassy and Popps will drop your "I trust Shanahan" mantra that you've all waved in our faces all year when the switch is made.

[dbfan4life]

I support anyone Shanny throws in there. As fans, we're all entitled to bitch and moan as much as we want. But I'll give the rook a few seasons since I gave Jake (and even stood up for him more often than not) a few seasons.

[shakenbake]

I vote for the mane law but we need to make a poll and the moderators need to enforce it.

[Taco John]

nope, just not an anti-anyone but cutler and elway such as yourself TJ

you cant give me that **** that you have given Jake a fair shake at all, I have been on this board for a year and a half and you have done nothing but call for his head in all but ONE thread you've created.



I bailed on Jake in January 2005. You joined in August 2004. Jake's first season was 2003. Do the math.

[shakenbake]

nope, just not an anti-anyone but cutler and elway such as yourself TJ

you cant give me that **** that you have given Jake a fair shake at all, I have been on this board for a year and a half and you have done nothing but call for his head in all but ONE thread you've created.

Ahh the infamous "Jake Plummer is nails" thread.

[BMF Bronco]

3 years is reasonable. I am looking for leadership, low turnover ratio. A QB rating above 90.

look at elways career rating you asshat, it's less than 90

[Rascal]

This is Denver, Dave.

He will be held to the standard of Elway right off the bat, and will sink or swim accordingly.

Word.

First game he blows and I demand that we draft a new QB.

[Arkansas Bronco]

I vote for the mane law but we need to make a poll and the moderators need to enforce it.

If we are going to make it mane law it should have a poll to get all sides. then maybey a thread in the ring of fame lock to just mods that keeps all our mane laws.

[RMANCIL]

Throwing the QB under the bus is fun and what most fans live and die for.

Take that away and next thing you know you will expect them to become students of the game.

[ClevelandBronco]

John got, what?, 14 seasons to win the big one?

Fair warning: I'm going to raise hell on day one of year 15 if Jay hasn't brought the Lombardi home.

[Taco John]

I vote for the mane law but we need to make a poll and the moderators need to enforce it.


We wouldn't enforce it any more than we enfoce the supposed 100 post rule. That's a community thing (ie. instead of typing "100 post rule" someone posts "2 year rule") that's up to you guys. People are going to be free to criticize the rookie if that's the way they're geared.

[BMF Bronco]

I bailed on Jake in January 2005. You joined in August 2004. Jake's first season was 2003. Do the math.

no, i joined in 2005

get your fact straight

[TheDave]

Time to make this a Poll... Gonna need some help there TJ

[Taco John]

John got, what?, 14 seasons to win the big one?

Fair warning: I'm going to raise hell on day one of year 15 if Jay hasn't brought the Lombardi home.



And in every single one of those 14 except the first, the fan base pretty much believed that he was capable of it in whatever particular year it was.

[ClevelandBronco]

And in every single one of those 14 except the first, the fan base pretty much believed that he was capable of it in whatever particular year it was.

If that's the case, we should know in pretty short order what the kid can do...

[BMF Bronco]

And in every single one of those 14 except the first, the fan base pretty much believed that he was capable of it in whatever particular year it was.

you're so full of dung TJ!!!! how many of the "fan base" were calling first for Kubes and then Maddux after 94?!

[SportinOne]

What should we expect from Cutler?

We should expect him to make the wrong reads sometimes, he is a rookie.

We should expect him to sail the ball over a receivers head now and again, he is a totally different quarterback than Jake Plummer, totally different.

We should expect him to run a few times where he should have passed, and also pass where he should have run.

We should expect that Walker will be his best friend.

We should expect to do NO WORSE with him in there.

I've said in threads before that i officially want Cutler in, however i also pointed out that this year would be another pointless Plummer Playoff Exit anyway, so whatever the kid does is a bonus.

This is about as close to rebuilding as this team likes to get, so here it comes. It's strange to even comprehend how bad Jake is doing this year. In the back of our minds we all wanted Cutler, just not now. We wanted him to be able to take the offseason to prepare. The only way Shanahan would make this move is if Jake were playing SO BAD that he thinks a rookie could make the team better, even if slightly. How did Jake get so bad?? Oh well, let's do this.

[Taco John]

you're so full of dung TJ!!!! how many of the "fan base" were calling first for Kubes and then Maddux after 94?!

A pretty substantial minority, I reckon.

[Victor]

17957

I'm the first one on the start Parsons bandwagon. Has it been two years yet?

[BMF Bronco]

A pretty substantial minority, I reckon.

bullcrap, even one of the post reporters wrote about it, forgive me if I fail to remember his name.



Nevertheless, I am out for the weekend, have a happy Turkey day all and GO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Kaylore]

A pretty substantial minority, I reckon.

Unfortunately not. It was a larger minority, and it was a very vocal one. Remember most fans don't know crap about football and they are more willing to believe what some New York guy who never watches games says about a player he never watches than twhat they see with their own eyes every week. Not to mention all the faction of people who won't admit they're wrong out of pride.

I remember there was at least one caller a day that called into the radio shows here and said that "John can't cut it" and that he can't "win the big game." It was it's worst during the early nineties when people were even calling him washed up.

Think about it, Taco. There are still people here who believe Jake should remain the starter. That should tell you more than you need to know.

[Taco John]

bullcrap, even one of the post reporters wrote about it, forgive me if I fail to remember his name.




You mean Mariotti? ROFL!

[Taco John]

Unfortunately not. It was a larger minority, and it was a very vocal one. Remember most fans don't know crap about football and they are more willing to believe what some New York guy who never watches games says about a player he never watches than twhat they see with their own eyes every week. Not to mention all the faction of people who won't admit they're wrong out of pride.

I remember there was at least one caller a day that called into the radio shows here and said that "John can't cut it" and that he can't "win the big game." It was it's worst during the early nineties when people were even calling him washed up.

Think about it, Taco. There are still people here who believe Jake should remain the starter. That should tell you more than you need to know.


I was in Idaho at the time, so I can't speak to what the locals wanted at the time. I just know that the thought never crossed my mind, and I'm suprised that anyone would even entertain the thought. I always was under the impression that it was a Marriotti thing that people generally rejected because it was Marriotti.

[manchambo]

**** that! for all you bastards that are calling for him now, I say you stick to your balls and man up if he sucks. If he pulls a Warner/Brady/Worthlessburger, I will eat my own words. But he HAS to produce this year and if he doesn't, crow shall be eaten!

I would think one would have to "man up" only if he sucked worse than Plummer currently sucks. That is to say, if he is substantially worse than the worst quarterback in the NFL. (For instance, if he is worse than several college or arena league quarterbacks.)

[DeuceOfClub]

I’ll give him a quarter. (maybe a full half) :thumbsup:

[Old Dude]

It's been a long time, but as I recall, Elway's first season was a mess.

He caught extra flack because Marino, that year, made what would be his only appearance in the super bowl. The comparisons were flying.

Elway's second year was improved, but he still wasn't quite there.

It was toward the end of his third year that he started becoming a force.

So giving Cutler two years seems very reasonable.

[REB]

Mane Law

[Hercules Rockefeller]

If he costs us games and we fail to make the playoffs due to Cutler, Im going to tear him adn every ****in asshat on this site a new one.


So what did you say after that 13 for 28 performance on Sunday night, or that All-Pro game from the QB against the Rams? Somehow I doubt you tore "every ****in asshat" on this site a new one when it was Jake who sucked ass.

[ludo21]

3 years is reasonable. I am looking for leadership, low turnover ratio. A QB rating above 90.



Im looking for wins and losses.

Plain and simple, Jake has delivered those while he has been here, that has been enough for me.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Im looking for wins and losses.

Plain and simple, Jake has delivered those while he has been here, that has been enough for me.

Don't know why we benched Foster then, the team's won pretty consistently since he's been the starter at RT.

[ludo21]

Don't know why we benched Foster then, the team's won pretty consistently since he's been the starter at RT.



Thats where my argument goes downhill.... ;D

[Hotrod]

It really is much more simple then you people are making it out to be. Look if anyone calls a rookie QB a bust after a few games or even 1/2 season they obviously are freaking nuts and dont know much about the game.

Will there be signs one way or the other sure there will but we gave Plummer 3 1/2 years and look at the product he's put on the table this year.

[Hotrod]

I also love the blame the D approach. Let me say the D has been poor the last 2 weeks but I wonder what our record would be like if they had not been as awesome as they were todate??? 4-6 or so would be my guess. The D is not the reason were facing the real possiblity of being out of the division race by Friday morning.

[Sodak]

I'm an asshat. Whatever the **** that is...

I don't know anything about football.

Start Cutler. He can't be any worse than Plummer.

[cdesignmaster]

Not a chance. For everyone that screamed for Cutler since the beginning, let them hear the criticism of those that wanted him to wait to learn the system. IF he becomes a bust, it'll be because he was thrown into the wolves unprepared. Any remember Leaf?

[ludo21]

Not a chance. For everyone that screamed for Cutler since the beginning, let them hear the criticism of those that wanted him to wait to learn the system. IF he becomes a bust, it'll be because he was thrown into the wolves unprepared. Any remember Leaf?

He wont start if he is not ready. Shanny aint stupid.

[ClevelandBronco]

I just looked up Cutler's numbers for this season. No TDs. Not one. No completions even. Face it, the kid's a bust.

[theAPAOps5]

Mane Law!

[DivineLegion]

John got, what?, 14 seasons to win the big one?

Fair warning: I'm going to raise hell on day one of year 15 if Jay hasn't brought the Lombardi home.

2 years to get us to a Superbowl ???

[ClevelandBronco]

2 years to get us to a Superbowl ???

14 years. Read it again.

[REB]

I just looked up Cutler's numbers for this season. No TDs. Not one. No completions even. Face it, the kid's a bust.

Oh, didn't realize that. Yea your right then. The kids a bust! LOL

[BroncoFiend]

This got brought up in another thread....

All right since it looks like it is finally going to happen (Jay Cutler starting), can we all agree to give him 2 full seasons before anyone starts calling him a bust. We all know that he is going to have moments of greatness followed closely by moments of absolute idiocy... Lets give the kid a chance before we start begging to draft a replacement.


How 'bout it, Mane Law.... Mane Law


Once this is agreed upon we need to get Old Dude to write it in the book :approve:

Personally I think even two years is a bit of a short leash for a rookie, but if anyone calls him a bust BEFORE two years there should be a year suspension IMO.

[epicSocialism4tw]

So...Jay get's 2 years, but Jake doesnt get half of one after three excellent years?

Good Lord this place is screwy.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

So...Jay get's 2 years, but Jake doesnt get half of one after three excellent years?

Good Lord this place is screwy.

What year was Jake excellent? Please don't say last year. If 1 TD and 200 ypg is excellent, it shows how truly low the expectations are for Jake.

[Barry Ramey]

In a perfect world or a place not Denver, a rookie QB would get plenty of time with some criticism of course, but nothing drastic by most.

But this is Denver. The place that followed Elway around, finding out when he got haircuts and what he gave out for candy on Halloween. Plus what his favorite burger at Wendy's or was it Arby's?

Anyway, unless the team was totally rebuilt, which I doubt, I don't see Cutler getting much of a break in Denver if the team drops to 8-8 or worse and he's seen by most as a big reason for it.

This probably also explains why Shanahan doesn't have great interest in putting Cutler in there since he was going for the Super Bowl this year and that's asking too much from a rookie QB and last thing he needs is a local media and fan base blaming his future QB for not making it to the Super Bowl since that would already be alienating a guy who he hopes to be around awhile. Plummer isn't expected back, so if he gets alienated, that's not seen as a huge problem to the organization as a whole since he'll be gone anyway.

[Orange_Beard]

There are a bunch of bitter OM members who don't want to admit that they were wrong about Plummer.

They will be blasting away at Cutler...........

[epicSocialism4tw]

There are a bunch of bitter OM members who don't want to admit that they were wrong about Plummer.
They will be blasting away at Cutler...........

I'll support Cutler the minute that he takes over the job. I am a believer. He has some amazing tools.

At the same time, Bronco fans on this site are morons for the most part. I'm almost ashamed to be associated with the lot. They divide themselves up into camps and throw around rhetoric instead of discussing anything of value. It's like tribal warfare in here. Dumb people bouncing rocks off of each others skulls.

:deadhorse

:hitself: :hitself: :hitself:

[OrangeShadow]

2 full years in my opinion is a good amount of time. Its also needed in the AFC more specifically the AFC west where the competetion is stiffer than bobs hard on for cutlers ass.

[epicSocialism4tw]

In a perfect world or a place not Denver, a rookie QB would get plenty of time with some criticism of course, but nothing drastic by most.

But this is Denver. The place that followed Elway around, finding out when he got haircuts and what he gave out for candy on Halloween. Plus what his favorite burger at Wendy's or was it Arby's?

Anyway, unless the team was totally rebuilt, which I doubt, I don't see Cutler getting much of a break in Denver if the team drops to 8-8 or worse and he's seen by most as a big reason for it.

This probably also explains why Shanahan doesn't have great interest in putting Cutler in there since he was going for the Super Bowl this year and that's asking too much from a rookie QB and last thing he needs is a local media and fan base blaming his future QB for not making it to the Super Bowl since that would already be alienating a guy who he hopes to be around awhile. Plummer isn't expected back, so if he gets alienated, that's not seen as a huge problem to the organization as a whole since he'll be gone anyway.

Most of the people clamoring for the insertion of Cutler wouldnt care if the Broncos were mediocre for years IF Cutler proved to be an all-pro.

They just want someone to watch on highlight reels and for the ESPiN jockeys to fawn over.

[baja]

Did I miss something?

I've read much of this thread and it sounds like many of you think Jay will start soon, where are you getting t6hat or is it based soly on the crapy play of Jake.

[baja]

BTW I think we will know if jay is a Bust long before two years in up. Though it will take the best part of two seasons to get an idea of just how good he will be.

[REB]

I'll support Cutler the minute that he takes over the job. I am a believer. He has some amazing tools.

At the same time, Bronco fans on this site are morons for the most part. I'm almost ashamed to be associated with the lot. They divide themselves up into camps and throw around rhetoric instead of discussing anything of value. It's like tribal warfare in here. Dumb people bouncing rocks off of each others skulls.

:deadhorse

:hitself: :hitself: :hitself:

So which dumb moronic tribe/camp do you belong in? Oh yea, your the only one in here who's always right :oyvey: . If your so ashamed, nobody's begging ya to hang around. What a thing to say...

[-Slap-]

Jay's performance will undoubtedly provide the grist for another Orange Mane intelligence litmus test.

[WABronco]

He gets as long as he f'ing needs...as long as that time period is of reasonable length. That is, unless he's averaging 3 INT's/game and routinely putting up 40% completion percentages. Really depends on your individual expectations.

[Taco John]

At the same time, Bronco fans on this site are morons for the most part. I'm almost ashamed to be associated with the lot. They divide themselves up into camps and throw around rhetoric instead of discussing anything of value. It's like tribal warfare in here. Dumb people bouncing rocks off of each others skulls.



I think it's humanity that you have a problem with. We're not doing anything that any other message board on the Internet isn't doing. That's just people.

[Taco John]

He gets as long as he f'ing needs...as long as that time period is of reasonable length. That is, unless he's averaging 3 INT's/game and routinely putting up 40% completion percentages. Really depends on your individual expectations.


My expectation: He better be at least as good as Plummer is now, or I'm going to flip! ;)

[WABronco]

I think it's humanity that you have a problem with. We're not doing anything that any other message board on the Internet isn't doing. That's just people.

We's all a bunch of dumb MF'ers 'round here...best get use to it or GET DA HELL OUT.

Agreed, though...8')

[WABronco]

My expectation: He better be at least as good as Plummer is now, or I'm going to flip! ;)

...that goes without saying.:~ohyah!:

[Northman]

2 seasons? Lmao, hell ashley got at least 3.

[baja]

Some of you are missing the key word here it's BUST

Thread asks for two years grace peroid before Jay is called a bust.

Is this hard?

[-Slap-]

I think it's humanity that you have a problem with. We're not doing anything that any other message board on the Internet isn't doing. That's just people.

It does feel like walking into an unruly kindergarten class sometimes. Especially when you realize you've begun throwing erasers like everybody else.

:dummy:

[Sodak]

I'll give him a 4 year grace period.

[theAPAOps5]

Did I miss something?

I've read much of this thread and it sounds like many of you think Jay will start soon, where are you getting t6hat or is it based soly on the crapy play of Jake.

This is all stemming from this:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9823256

Shefter is reporting on sources inside the organization. So was Mort when he reported Cutler was going to play against the Browns. Now Shefter is a little more trustworthy given his time spent with the Denver Post. Still I don't want to get to excited just yet.

[TDmvp]

If we trade / cut jake before knowing how jay plays in a REAL game not preseason we are Duh - Umb

[Sodak]

This is all stemming from this:

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9823256

Shefter is reporting on sources inside the organization. So was Mort when he reported Cutler was going to play against the Browns. Now Shefter is a little more trustworthy given his time spent with the Denver Post. Still I don't want to get to excited just yet.


Shefter does make a very convincing argument here.

[theAPAOps5]

Exactly this rumor has a little more teeth. I look at it this way: When I was a kid I found a bag from Toys R Us in the trash right before Christmas. I just knew I was getting a GI Joe aircraft carrier. I was so excited, then Christmas day it was the GI Joe Hover Craft.

Point being its easy to get excited when there are a lot of factors pointing to it but until it happens I am skeptical.

[TheDave]

At the same time, Bronco fans on this site are morons for the most part. I'm almost ashamed to be associated with the lot. They divide themselves up into camps and throw around rhetoric instead of discussing anything of value. It's like tribal warfare in here. Dumb people bouncing rocks off of each others skulls.


and we thank you for coming here and being the lone guiding light in this sea of darkness... All hail the Llama :sunshine:

[(Jae)]

I give him until Jack Elway is ready...............................

[~Crash~]

I'm with you TheDave. That's what I gave Plummer. I think two full seasons is a fair amount of time to evaluate a player's ability. We'll know by that time if Cutler has it in him, or if he's another pretender.
you guys dont get it it is 4 years to be at full speed !! but at two years he should be coming along very nice .

[~Crash~]

I give him until Jack Elway is ready...............................

that is about right ! Jack would be ready in 4 years. I cannot believe how tall Jack already is !

[Hulamau]

**** that! for all you bastards that are calling for him now, I say you stick to your balls and man up if he sucks. If he pulls a Warner/Brady/Worthlessburger, I will eat my own words. But he HAS to produce this year and if he doesn't, crow shall be eaten!

Wow that's Brilliant ... This is a change for the long term future not a 5 minute talent scout contest!

Cutler didn't push Jake out of a job, Jake is doing his best to lose it all on his own! Anyone that would call Cutler a bust if he struggles some in the last few games of this season is a TOTAL and UTTER Moron of the first order and would deserve a "Mind-Fart" avatar for the rest of the season :-)!

Cutler is a promising rookie learning the game, Plummer is a 10 year vet with everything stacked in his favor who everyone had every right to expect to play at a high level this year and he's ranged from mediocre to abysmal .

There is no comparison at all and no logical rationale that if Cutler struggles the former pro-Plummer crowd has anything to gloat about. For Christ sake this is about the team making a major move here and any Bronco fan worth shiat, regardless of who they rooted for previously, ought to get behind the kid when Shanny makes the move and give him the breathing room to grow into what he can be ... or turn into a bust if that is in the cards, but that wont be determined at the very least until the end of the 2008 season and more likely he'll get at least until end of 2009.

Jake had 4 years to bust out or lose his job and he was already a 6 year vet when he started here. Why should Cutler only get a few games to sink or swim before some die-hard Plummer Knob-licker throws him under the bus?

This is about what is best for the team ... not a Plummer versus Cutler dual. Jake has had every chance to claim the mantle and he still gets another chance as well, so no one can say Shanny didn't do everything he could to set Jake up for success and bend over backwards for him.

The crying shame for the team and Jake is that he regressed big time this year from last, otherwise it would all be a moot point now instead of topic A.

Bon Voyage to Jake and best of luck. I'm ready to strap it on with the kid and come what may, he's our guy for the future until and unless he proves he's not up to it (highly unlikely) a few years down the road.

This is one of those rare golden opportunities for real harmony on this issue among all real Bronco fans for the next year or two at least. We have a new stud rookie who should get our undivided support for as long as it takes to see if he can become the real deal or not ... period!

[Orange_Beard]

I'll support Cutler the minute that he takes over the job. I am a believer. He has some amazing tools.

At the same time, Bronco fans on this site are morons for the most part. I'm almost ashamed to be associated with the lot. They divide themselves up into camps and throw around rhetoric instead of discussing anything of value. It's like tribal warfare in here. Dumb people bouncing rocks off of each others skulls.

:deadhorse

:hitself: :hitself: :hitself:

Sounds like the world to me.

[epicSocialism4tw]

This is one of those rare golden opportunities for real harmony on this issue among all real Bronco fans for the next year or two at least. We have a new stud rookie who should get our undivided support for as long as it takes to see if he can become the real deal or not ... period!


That would be really sweet and all, but the reality is much more brutal.

A new kid is stepping into Elway's shadow. Whether or not he is eaten alive by the broncannibal brigade depends on how close he can come to stepping out of it into his own spotlight.

Two QB's before him were cannibalized by "real Bronco fans". I dont see this being any different.

Forgive me if I take your attitude here as muy hypocritical. You've been one of the more prominant anti-Plummer persons here because you had to explain why your boy Lelie couldnt live up to his potential. Maybe you should practice what you preach?

[Dedhed]

**** that! for all you bastards that are calling for him now, I say you stick to your balls and man up if he sucks. If he pulls a Warner/Brady/Worthlessburger, I will eat my own words. But he HAS to produce this year and if he doesn't, crow shall be eaten!

I had an incling you were moderately retarded before, but you just put any doubt to rest.

[Hulamau]

Two QB's before him were cannibalized by "real Bronco fans". I dont see this being any different.

Forgive me if I take your attitude here as muy hypocritical. You've been one of the more prominent anti-Plummer persons here because you had to explain why your boy Lelie couldn't live up to his potential. Maybe you should practice what you preach?

Wrong once again Lama, what is correct is that I've pointed out Plummer's fundamental limitations AND his set of real strengths since day one and have been totally consistent about highlighting both since day one. A reality that nearly everyone now heartily concurs with now that these limitations are on such full display. But I also supported Shanny in getting Plummer and had high hopes for him early on.

If Plummer only played as well as last year none of this debate would even be going on. But in any event, that has NOTHING to do with being reasonable with support for the rookie Cutler who comes in with a clean slate which is what this tread is about.

Plummer has always been like a figure in a Greek Tragedy here. A guy with many likable qualities and some admirable athletic skills and real moxie ( at least until this year). But he has ALWAYS had an achillies heal of an arm that has now finally come home to roost.

Critiquing a 6 to 10 year vet is one thing, but then using the same standard on a rookie is quite another ... again this is the point in question with this thread, and those very few diehard Plummer lovers who may feel jilted and secretly wanting Cutler to struggle early so they can have the satisfaction of throwing him under the bus before years end apparently cant see this glaringly obvious distinction.

[Circle Orange]

Let's get this out of the way now.

JAY CUTLER MUST GO.

We'll never win a super bowl with him. Shanny can't run the whole playbook with this guy. He's not a leader. He's another Jeff George. He's had his chance. The defense can't carry the load all the time. Jay is what he is. He can't handle the pressure.

BUST!!! http://scosoft.com/s/p/38140d11.gif

Jay: "People liked me at first. Now they're running me out of town, too!"

See? I'm ahead of the curve...http://scosoft.com/s/r/3968ae8c.gif

[broncolife]

Not a chance. For everyone that screamed for Cutler since the beginning, let them hear the criticism of those that wanted him to wait to learn the system. IF he becomes a bust, it'll be because he was thrown into the wolves unprepared. Any remember Leaf?

Anybody remember Manning?

[Taco John]

This is one of those rare golden opportunities for real harmony on this issue among all real Bronco fans for the next year or two at least. We have a new stud rookie who should get our undivided support for as long as it takes to see if he can become the real deal or not ... period!


It will be. This isn't a new cycle. I've witnessed it several times on several NFL boards. There will be a Honeymoon period for Jay, relative peace on the board. Skirmishes will still come up, but nothing like we're seeing now. We're about to pass completely through the worst of it.

[Clockwork Orange]

I don't think any of this is going to matter. I'm of the belief that Cutler isn't going to give people all that much to complain about.

Kid's got the poise, the smarts and, oh my, that howitzer launching right arm. I'm ready to see what he can do in live competition.

[Hulamau]

It will be. This isn't a new cycle. I've witnessed it several times on several NFL boards. There will be a Honeymoon period for Jay, relative peace on the board. Skirmishes will still come up, but nothing like we're seeing now. We're about to pass completely through the worst of it.

Hallelujah!

[CBF1]

**** that! for all you bastards that are calling for him now, I say you stick to your balls and man up if he sucks. If he pulls a Warner/Brady/Worthlessburger, I will eat my own words. But he HAS to produce this year and if he doesn't, crow shall be eaten!

So plummer sucks for 3 years (plus alot more in Arizona) and you want to give this kid 6 games? Get a clue...and enjoy your crow.

[fontaine]

I'm going to go with the only guy who's opinion is worth a damn around here.

Mike Shanahan has said it takes 3 full years of starting for a QB to be up to speed with his offense.

Anything else is a circle jerk in futility.

[ZachKC]

It will be. This isn't a new cycle. I've witnessed it several times on several NFL boards. There will be a Honeymoon period for Jay, relative peace on the board. Skirmishes will still come up, but nothing like we're seeing now. We're about to pass completely through the worst of it.

http://goes.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/tornado_warning.gif

[BroncoBuff]

Here's an interesting note from the very end of Schefter's Cutler article:




STAT OF THE WEEK

Maybe it shouldn't be surprising that Denver is turning to Cutler. Three rookie quarterbacks won their games last week -- Tampa Bay's Gradkowski, Arizona's Matt Leinart (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/415213) and Tennessee's Vince Young (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/424340). They became the first rookie quarterback trio in a non-shortened season to win in the same week since Week 14 of 1983 when Denver's John Elway, Miami's Dan Marino and New England's Tony Eason performed the feat.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So Jake the Fake got 9 (NINE!) years to show he could do it...4 in Denver (and he was already a vet) before he gets to take a seat but the rookie only gets 2? That's moronic. It takes most rookie QB's a bit more than that. I expect to see a good deal of improvement as he goes along but to say he gets two years and then we cut him or he's labeled a bust is insane. I don't get the weird fascination in here with Plummer loyalty that goes so far as to castigate any future QB who starts for us by holding them to a standard of half as much time as Fake got before shoving them out the door. This guy must owe a lot of people money or something.

[Dedhed]

I don't think any of this is going to matter. I'm of the belief that Cutler isn't going to give people all that much to complain about.

Kid's got the poise, the smarts and, oh my, that howitzer launching right arm. I'm ready to see what he can do in live competition.

His poise in the pre-season was by far the most impressive thing I saw from the kid. I did "wow" more than a few of his throws, but poise is what the great players have above the great athletes.

[baja]

So Jake the Fake got 9 (NINE!) years to show he could do it...4 in Denver (and he was already a vet) before he gets to take a seat but the rookie only gets 2? That's moronic. It takes most rookie QB's a bit more than that. I expect to see a good deal of improvement as he goes along but to say he gets two years and then we cut him or he's labeled a bust is insane. I don't get the weird fascination in here with Plummer loyalty that goes so far as to castigate any future QB who starts for us by holding them to a standard of half as much time as Fake got before shoving them out the door. This guy must owe a lot of people money or something.

Please name one rookie starting quarterback that after two seasons was a consensus bust that turned out not to be.

[broncobum6162]

What should we expect from Cutler?

We should expect him to make the wrong reads sometimes, he is a rookie.

We should expect him to sail the ball over a receivers head now and again, he is a totally different quarterback than Jake Plummer, totally different.

We should expect him to run a few times where he should have passed, and also pass where he should have run.

We should expect that Walker will be his best friend.

We should expect to do NO WORSE with him in there.

I've said in threads before that i officially want Cutler in, however i also pointed out that this year would be another pointless Plummer Playoff Exit anyway, so whatever the kid does is a bonus.

This is about as close to rebuilding as this team likes to get, so here it comes. It's strange to even comprehend how bad Jake is doing this year. In the back of our minds we all wanted Cutler, just not now. We wanted him to be able to take the offseason to prepare. The only way Shanahan would make this move is if Jake were playing SO BAD that he thinks a rookie could make the team better, even if slightly. How did Jake get so bad?? Oh well, let's do this.

Well said, If your gonna dumb down the offense and still make rookie mistakes even though you are a 11 year vet its time to play a rookie who has more upside. Jake may play a good game today but we all know his bad game is 1 game away. I gave Jake 2 years before I started chewing on him and like TJ lost complete faith in him during the AFC championship. I would give Jay the remainder of this season and 2 more full seasons before calling him a bust.

[broncobum6162]

Wow that's Brilliant ... This is a change for the long term future not a 5 minute talent scout contest!

Cutler didn't push Jake out of a job, Jake is doing his best to lose it all on his own! Anyone that would call Cutler a bust if he struggles some in the last few games of this season is a TOTAL and UTTER Moron of the first order and would deserve a "Mind-Fart" avatar for the rest of the season :-)!

Cutler is a promising rookie learning the game, Plummer is a 10 year vet with everything stacked in his favor who everyone had every right to expect to play at a high level this year and he's ranged from mediocre to abysmal .

There is no comparison at all and no logical rationale that if Cutler struggles the former pro-Plummer crowd has anything to gloat about. For Christ sake this is about the team making a major move here and any Bronco fan worth shiat, regardless of who they rooted for previously, ought to get behind the kid when Shanny makes the move and give him the breathing room to grow into what he can be ... or turn into a bust if that is in the cards, but that wont be determined at the very least until the end of the 2008 season and more likely he'll get at least until end of 2009.

Jake had 4 years to bust out or lose his job and he was already a 6 year vet when he started here. Why should Cutler only get a few games to sink or swim before some die-hard Plummer Knob-licker throws him under the bus?

This is about what is best for the team ... not a Plummer versus Cutler dual. Jake has had every chance to claim the mantle and he still gets another chance as well, so no one can say Shanny didn't do everything he could to set Jake up for success and bend over backwards for him.

The crying shame for the team and Jake is that he regressed big time this year from last, otherwise it would all be a moot point now instead of topic A.

Bon Voyage to Jake and best of luck. I'm ready to strap it on with the kid and come what may, he's our guy for the future until and unless he proves he's not up to it (highly unlikely) a few years down the road.

This is one of those rare golden opportunities for real harmony on this issue among all real Bronco fans for the next year or two at least. We have a new stud rookie who should get our undivided support for as long as it takes to see if he can become the real deal or not ... period!

Man there are a lot of great posts on this thread. I like it when other people put into words what I've been thinking. It saves me the trouble of straining my brain :thumbs: and all the hassle of typing it into a post. :thumbsup:
Great post!!


Ohh.....and it reinforces in my mind that I'm not crazy even though I feel at times its only one nervous breakdown away.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Please name one rookie starting quarterback that after two seasons was a consensus bust that turned out not to be.
On the OM, "Bust" will be defined as failing to win a Superbowl...or come precious close. The only way you can legitimately call Cutler a bust after two years is if we see him playing like Jake Plummer plays after nine years in the league. If that happens...I'll call him a bust also.

[fontaine]

Please name one rookie starting quarterback that after two seasons was a consensus bust that turned out not to be.

consensus?

I mean there are still Bradlee Van Pelt Homers hanging around.

Cutler will be ready when he's damn well ready!

[Northman]

Seems like you might be one of them there "agenda" folks that ole Popps likes to talk about, aye there Tex?



Yep, the secret password is " I Told You So! ". :rofl:

[Spider]

Problem is , it isn realy the players , but the fans ..... example ....
poster #1 man i cant wait untill jay starts , he will be a god .......
poster #2 hang on we dont know how good or bad Cutler is ......
Poster #1 , You are a Jake lover , you hate jay ........
Poster #2 , so you are gay for Jay .....
poster #1 you will see when Jay takes us to the super bowl ......
Poster #2 STFU , you are gay for Jay .........
or somthing like that

[Northman]

you're so full of dung TJ!!!! how many of the "fan base" were calling first for Kubes and then Maddux after 94?!



Only idiots who believe that Plummer can even sniff Elway's jock when it comes to being a top notch Qb. Elway struggled at times, but nothing like what we hve going on now. Has Jake been better than Brian? Yes, but he also has now hit his wall. Jake will only take you so far. As for your quote, ive only heard one person in my life who never like Elway and that was my dad. But he hated Elway from day one.

[baja]

consensus?

I mean there are still Bradlee Van Pelt Homers hanging around.

Cutler will be ready when he's damn well ready!

Tell me what your comment has to do with my post which was a response to a post by 27.

[Spider]

Oh and the Elway thing ......After we lost to Buffalo 10-7 in the AFCC game alot of people in Denver was saying , it is over for Elway , he as lost his skills ,cant react ,bears want Elway we can make a trade , etc .......... then there was that joke about removing Janets breast and putting her in .......

[Northman]

Not a chance. For everyone that screamed for Cutler since the beginning, let them hear the criticism of those that wanted him to wait to learn the system. IF he becomes a bust, it'll be because he was thrown into the wolves unprepared. Any remember Leaf?



Do you remember Peyton Manning?

[Spider]

Do you remember Peyton Manning?

isnt he the guy that does those credit card commercials ?

[fontaine]

Tell me what your comment has to do with my post which was a response to a post by 27.

You'll always have homers among fans, yes even so called "experts" that will root for a guy no matter what the facts may or not be so to ask the question you did really has no relevance.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Tell me what your comment has to do with my post which was a response to a post by 27.
If you're still looking for a QB who fit the classic definition of "bust" for two years and then improved...I suggest looking no farther than Jake. He was a bust for 6 years...responded well to coaching for the next 3 under Shanny/Kubes, then slid down the crapper as soon as Jay Cutler hit town. So yeah...a QB can suck for two years...or in Jake's case for 6...and then still perform well. Unfortunately, like cream...talent usually finds it's proper level eventually. My guess is Cutler has a bit stronger emotional psyche than Jake though. He made it through 4 years of being a human pinata and played hurt at Vandy so how could he not?

Shanahan himself says it takes three years to learn the system and play well. Yet the OM Jake lovers can't wait to dump our best hope for the future in two.

Go figure.

[Northman]

Problem is , it isn realy the players , but the fans ..... example ....
poster #1 man i cant wait untill jay starts , he will be a god .......
poster #2 hang on we dont know how good or bad Cutler is ......
Poster #1 , You are a Jake lover , you hate jay ........
Poster #2 , so you are gay for Jay .....
poster #1 you will see when Jay takes us to the super bowl ......
Poster #2 STFU , you are gay for Jay .........
or somthing like that



Or:

Poster 1 Man, jake is playing like crap and 4 Ints?
Poster 2 Nah, your a Jake hater and if the Defense could stop someone he wouldnt turn it over.

[Northman]

isnt he the guy that does those credit card commercials ?



Not sure, but his brother Pedro does the cellular phone ones. :rofl:

[Northman]

If you're still looking for a QB who fit the classic definition of "bust" for two years and then improved...I suggest looking no farther than Jake. He was a bust for 6 years...responded well to coaching for the next 3 under Shanny/Kubes, then slid down the crapper as soon as Jay Cutler hit town. So yeah...a QB can suck for two years...or in Jake's case for 6...and then still perform well. Unfortunately, like cream...talent usually finds it's proper level eventually. My guess is Cutler has a bit stronger emotional psyche than Jake though. He made it through 4 years of being a human pinata and played hurt at Vandy so how could he not?

Shanahan himself says it takes three years to learn the system and play well. Yet the OM Jake lovers can't wait to dump our best hope for the future in two.

Go figure.



Im not sure he was even called a bust while in Az. For the most part people said it was the team that sucked. Then he comes to Denver where the talent is overall better and becomes a winning Qb. But now, despite still winning some games his individual play is hurting. I mean, his Td to Int ratio is not that much different from when he was in Az so there is definitely a problem there.

[baja]

You'll always have homers among fans, yes even so called "experts" that will root for a guy no matter what the facts may or not be so to ask the question you did really has no relevance.

con?sen?sus? [kuhn-sen-suhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -sus?es.
1. majority of opinion: The consensus of the group was that they should meet twice a month.
2. general agreement or concord; harmony.

As an example I would site jake this season. At the beginning of the season there were two camps but after his play over nine games there is now a consensus that he sucks this year and should be replaced.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Im not sure he was even called a bust while in Az. For the most part people said it was the team that sucked. Then he comes to Denver where the talent is overall better and becomes a winning Qb. But now, despite still winning some games his individual play is hurting. I mean, his Td to Int ratio is not that much different from when he was in Az so there is definitely a problem there.
His average QB rating during the AZ years was 68.3...clear bust territory even if you discount QB rankings as being a great measuring stick. When Denver signed him if memory served only one other NFL team was interested...and I think most people thought he was a bust even if he could be given some slack for playing in AZ. Regardless of whether it was him or the system, his performance increased dramatically in Denver until Jay got here. Then he peed down his leg like a pimply faced high school sophmore talking to the prom queen.

[Spider]

Or:

Poster 1 Man, jake is playing like crap and 4 Ints?
Poster 2 Nah, your a Jake hater and if the Defense could stop someone he wouldnt turn it over.

meh!! you are gay for Jay ;D

[Northman]

His average QB rating during the AZ years was 68.3...clear bust territory even if you discount QB rankings as being a great measuring stick. When Denver signed him if memory served only one other NFL team was interested...and I think most people thought he was a bust even if he could be given some slack for playing in AZ. Regardless of whether it was him or the system, his performance increased dramatically in Denver until Jay got here. Then he peed down his leg like a pimply faced high school sophmore talking to the prom queen.



Hilarious! indeed.

[Spider]

Not sure, but his brother Pedro does the cellular phone ones. :rofl:

LOL

[Northman]

meh!! you are gay for Jay ;D


Actually, i would prefer Schaub but thats life. :yayaya:

[Spider]

Actually, i would prefer Schaub but thats life. :yayaya:
well it should be clear to everyone that BVP is the guy for the Job ;D

[Northman]

well it should be clear to everyone that BVP is the guy for the Job ;D



Nah, bring back Sean Moore.

[fontaine]

con?sen?sus? [kuhn-sen-suhs] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -sus?es.
1. majority of opinion: The consensus of the group was that they should meet twice a month.
2. general agreement or concord; harmony.

As an example I would site jake this season. At the beginning of the season there were two camps but after his play over nine games there is now a consensus that he sucks this year and should be replaced.

I hear what you're saying Baja. But outside this board you can visit other sites like Football Outsiders where opinion is still split down the line, or ask Phil Simms who endorsed Plummer just a few weeks ago.

[Circle Orange]

I look no further than the situation here in Washington. Jason Campbell has all of seven weeks to decide his NFL future, and the direction the organization goes for next year. Sound absurd? Of course, but it's no crazier than assuming Jay will be the next thing. Being poised with nothing at stake and no overwhelming expectations is easy. Being under fire is another. Sure, I think the guy can win and be successful. But I ain't crazy enough to pour bronze on him. People go overboard to compensate sometimes. Look at all the hype with the Dallas qb. They're so starved for a franchise qb they'll manufacture one whether the guy turns out that way or not.

Fast forward to 2010...will we be inserting "Jay" where "Jake" is on these threads? People raved and ranted about Leaf and George, too. Manning was supposedly not that good, now everyone is acting like he invented the quarterback position, like they knew it all the time. The league is littered with 'could bes and woulda beens!' What's the Vick revolution, that he runs and throws? Damn, no one ever did that before I guess. All I see is an option quarterback. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. So why not just see how Cutler does?

BTW, there's a rumor that Plummer may end up with the IGGLES, seriously. His agent is putting feelers out to teams. They see the writing on the wall.

[TheDave]

Probably not a bad time to remind everyone...

[Circle Orange]

In a perfect world or a place not Denver, a rookie QB would get plenty of time with some criticism of course, but nothing drastic by most.

But this is Denver. The place that followed Elway around, finding out when he got haircuts and what he gave out for candy on Halloween. Plus what his favorite burger at Wendy's or was it Arby's?

Anyway, unless the team was totally rebuilt, which I doubt, I don't see Cutler getting much of a break in Denver if the team drops to 8-8 or worse and he's seen by most as a big reason for it.

This probably also explains why Shanahan doesn't have great interest in putting Cutler in there since he was going for the Super Bowl this year and that's asking too much from a rookie QB and last thing he needs is a local media and fan base blaming his future QB for not making it to the Super Bowl since that would already be alienating a guy who he hopes to be around awhile. Plummer isn't expected back, so if he gets alienated, that's not seen as a huge problem to the organization as a whole since he'll be gone anyway.


The Rocky Mountain region is never rational. But will Shanny panic and shoehorn Jay into expectations that might crush him? 8')

[Hotrod]

Odd looking at the Mane then looking at this poll there sure seems to be more then 28% of the posters talking out their *** today.

[Circle Orange]

So Jake the Fake got 9 (NINE!) years to show he could do it...4 in Denver (and he was already a vet) before he gets to take a seat but the rookie only gets 2? That's moronic. It takes most rookie QB's a bit more than that. I expect to see a good deal of improvement as he goes along but to say he gets two years and then we cut him or he's labeled a bust is insane. I don't get the weird fascination in here with Plummer loyalty that goes so far as to castigate any future QB who starts for us by holding them to a standard of half as much time as Fake got before shoving them out the door. This guy must owe a lot of people money or something.

Now let's not be HASTY. Nine years isn't too much to ask, and you hate to make snap decisions. Jake just needed more time under his belt. :~ohyah!:

[RMANCIL]

I look no further than the situation here in Washington. Jason Campbell has all of seven weeks to decide his NFL future, and the direction the organization goes for next year. Sound absurd? Of course, but it's no crazier than assuming Jay will be the next thing. Being poised with nothing at stake and no overwhelming expectations is easy. Being under fire is another. Sure, I think the guy can win and be successful. But I ain't crazy enough to pour bronze on him. People go overboard to compensate sometimes. Look at all the hype with the Dallas qb. They're so starved for a franchise qb they'll manufacture one whether the guy turns out that way or not.

Fast forward to 2010...will we be inserting "Jay" where "Jake" is on these threads? People raved and ranted about Leaf and George, too. Manning was supposedly not that good, now everyone is acting like he invented the quarterback position, like they knew it all the time. The league is littered with 'could bes and woulda beens!' What's the Vick revolution, that he runs and throws? Damn, no one ever did that before I guess. All I see is an option quarterback. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL. So why not just see how Cutler does?

BTW, there's a rumor that Plummer may end up with the IGGLES, seriously. His agent is putting feelers out to teams. They see the writing on the wall.


One aspect that seems to get over looked on this board is that Rivers , Campbell and Romo sat the bench and watched as well as learned through a few TC while your boy wonder has not completed one season of carrying the clip board.

[rgweiser53]

Your an idiot

[RMANCIL]

Now let's not be HASTY. Nine years isn't too much to ask, and you hate to make snap decisions. Jake just needed more time under his belt. :~ohyah!:

Great Avatar I swear I think he looks like a women and that was before the wig. Hilarious!

[RMANCIL]

Jay Cutler gets 2 years before being called a bust
Mane Law!
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