What will you do... [Archive] - The Orange Mane - a Denver Broncos Fan Community

Popps

11-20-2006, 09:00 PM

Northman

11-20-2006, 09:00 PM

If Jay does start and sucks! How much time does he get to prove himself...what if he never proves himself...how many threads will there be on this board saying the Broncos blew a great draft pick and a shot at Maroney :thumbsup:

What if he does worlds better and the team starts winning convincingly? Will you come back and eat all the crow?

Hercules Rockefeller

11-20-2006, 09:02 PM

3rd full year of starting

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2006, 09:02 PM

If Jay does start and sucks! I've already seen him play. He doesn't suck, Plummer sucks. Nice of you to continually bring up the possibility though. What are you going to do when you see he can actually play the position?

Peremptor

11-20-2006, 09:02 PM

I was about to say exactly the same thing TJ.
Give him three years. Maybe four.

But we should be optimistic, right? He'll kick more ass than Rivers when he gets to start. :)

Whatever he does this season, the most important thing he will gain valuable experience that will only help him to get off to a good start for 2007. As many have said before, with the inconsistent to bad play of Plummer I be suprised if Cutler plays any worse :).

Sassy

11-20-2006, 09:04 PM

What if he does worlds better and the team starts winning convincingly? Will you come back and eat all the crow?

That's the part of this board that is just pissing me off..I never said I wasn't a Cutler fan...just that I supported Jake because Shanahan had him out there ...You think that a coach would have the best players out there. I never ragged on Cutler...just think that it would be best to wait until next year to start him. I've said on this board that Jake has been sucking...where do you see that "Jake's My Man" crap at (I haven't been sucking up to Jake) ? I will support Cutler...when he's in there..and right now, he isn't.
Why does it have to be one way or the other...why pick a side? I'll go with what Shanahan does...after all, he is one of the best...if not the best...Coach in the NFL.

rbackfactory80

11-20-2006, 09:04 PM

Taco and all his cronies will have the tattoos removed of his name from their bottoms.

Taco John

11-20-2006, 09:04 PM

It depends...

The agenda crowd: They'll give him 10 years of stinking it up without complaining. He could absolutely suck for years, lose nearly every start... and you'll see the usual suspects here getting his back.

The Jake crowd: Actually, most Bronco fans will get on him in a hurry if he starts slow. Mark it down, if he's not playing like a Pro Bowler in a year, you'll hear the "B" word around here. But, the polarization of the Jake/Jay nonsense will have some people getting on Jay's ass in a hurry.

The "we need a defense" crowd: Will likely judge Cutler by wins and continue calling for total TEAM improvements as opposed to pinning all good or bad on the QB.

I think he's going to be great, and I don't think long. We'll see.

"The Agenda Crowd"

LOL ROFL! LOL ROFL!

That's hilarious. The funniest part is that you're completely serious about it. You seriously believe that there are people who have some wierd agenda past seeing the Broncos win.

Just hilarious. "The Agenda Crowd."

You've become kindof a joke with that stuff. How about just admitting you were wrong about Jake?

Jetmeck

11-20-2006, 09:07 PM

If Jay does start and sucks! How much time does he get to prove himself...what if he never proves himself...how many threads will there be on this board saying the Broncos blew a great draft pick and a shot at Maroney :thumbsup:

Girl would you please get over this. I swear it's like you have some sort of high school crush on JAKIE. Plummer has left us no other option, it is he alone that has done this to himself. It is quite right for everyone to be calling for him to be benched and as far as JAY, when compared to Plummer , he can't do worse and he has great upside and is accurate.
Regarding our QB their is no way it could be worse.

Taco John

11-20-2006, 09:07 PM

Taco and all his chronies will have the tattoos removed of his name from their bottoms.

I don't have any cronies. I have friends who agree. Friends who disagree. And some not so friendly folks who "have an agenda" (muhahahahaha - "agenda")

Northman

11-20-2006, 09:08 PM

That's the part of this board that is just pissing me off..I never said I wasn't a Cutler fan...just that I supported Jake because Shanahan had him out there ...You think that a coach would have the best players out there. I never ragged on Cutler...just think that it would be best to wait until next year to start him. I've said on this board that Jake has been sucking...where do you see that "Jake's My Man" crap at? I will support Cutler...when he's in there..and right now, he isn't.

Its HOW you've argued your stance. Everytime the problems with Jake would come up you would make a sarcastic remark deflecting to the Colts game and the defense. If you have commented on Jake's poor performance its been very very rare if at all.

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2006, 09:08 PM

Northman

11-20-2006, 09:09 PM

Taco John

11-20-2006, 09:10 PM

:rofl:
You have a BIG problem!!!

You must be in on "the Agenda!"

/pssss. We have secret chat meetings when Popps goes to sleep! Wait for the signal!

Taco John

11-20-2006, 09:11 PM

That will never happen.

Of course not. He wasn't wrong about Jake. He was RIGHT about both him and Cutler! It's WIN/WIN! (so long as Jake isn't required to do the actual "winning.")

Sassy

11-20-2006, 09:12 PM

Girl would you please get over this. I swear it's like you have some sort of high school crush on JAKIE. Plummer has left us no other option, it is he alone that has done this to himself. It is quite right for everyone to be calling for him to be benched and as far as JAY, when compared to Plummer , he can't do worse and he has great upside and is accurate.
Regarding our QB their is no way it could be worse.

"Jakie" is not a crush...I have said he's sucked along with everyone else...and I will repeat...I have nothing against Cutler...I just think it would be better to start him next year. Now, is not the time...and Shanahan doesn't seem to think so either...Some of you have no reading comprehesion whatsoever...or are just plain out ignoring what some posters think.

Jetmeck

11-20-2006, 09:15 PM

It depends...

The agenda crowd: They'll give him 10 years of stinking it up without complaining. He could absolutely suck for years, lose nearly every start... and you'll see the usual suspects here getting his back.

The Jake crowd: Actually, most Bronco fans will get on him in a hurry if he starts slow. Mark it down, if he's not playing like a Pro Bowler in a year, you'll hear the "B" word around here. But, the polarization of the Jake/Jay nonsense will have some people getting on Jay's ass in a hurry.

The "we need a defense" crowd: Will likely judge Cutler by wins and continue calling for total TEAM improvements as opposed to pinning all good or bad on the QB.

I think he's going to be great, and I don't think long. We'll see.

In the NFL the QB gets more of the blame than he should and sometimes more of the praise than he should.

The praise part applies directly to Jake as his winning record most want to tout. He has been protected by a top tier rushing game and a usually stout defense. When all that crumbles around him and great QBs rise to the occasion and takes their team on their shoulders....PLUMMER wilts like a lilly in the desert.

The blame part applies directly to Plummer as well due to HIS actions not the team around him but his INTs and fumbles and total inaccuracy to the tune of the lowest rated starter in the NFL.

He never was that good and now it is showing.

Jay on the other is way more talented and accurate so he would be an immediate improvement and only get better.

Orange_Beard

11-20-2006, 09:16 PM

Three years.
Look there are going to be some tuff times. From what he has shown so far there is an upside, huge upside.

That's all I need.

Sassy

11-20-2006, 09:17 PM

Its HOW you've argued your stance. Everytime the problems with Jake would come up you would make a sarcastic remark deflecting to the Colts game and the defense. If you have commented on Jake's poor performance its been very very rare if at all.

That's B.S. I have said Jake sucked , along with other parts of the team, and I've gotten ragged on left and right for "blaming it on the D" or whatever....since when hasn't it been a team game? How do you know I'm being sarcastic? I haven't been...wow...just wow...reading into my posts now are you? (P.S. Maybe you would like to ask Hogan how I felt about Jake in the 2nd half of the Cleveland game...or in the game in Denver when we played KC...live and in person at both...) He'll tell you it wasnt positive.

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2006, 09:22 PM

You must be in on "the Agenda!"

/pssss. We have secret chat meetings when Popps goes to sleep! Wait for the signal!
I must be. Thx for the heads up on the next meeting, I can't wait! :wiggle:

cabronco

11-20-2006, 09:23 PM

Jetmeck

11-20-2006, 09:25 PM

"Jakie" is not a crush...I have said he's sucked along with everyone else...and I will repeat...I have nothing against Cutler...I just think it would be better to start him next year. Now, is not the time...and Shanahan doesn't seem to think so either...Some of you have no reading comprehesion whatsoever...or are just plain out ignoring what some posters think.

It can't get any worse, can it ? Most here know Cutler would be an immediate improvement at the position. How can he not be ? He is simply has more talent than Plummer and is more accurate. Tell me accuracy wouldn't have come in handy last night ?

I am not ignoring what you think, I don't know what you think. Anyone that THINKS Cutler would be a DOWNGRADE has some screws loose. Shanny is reluctant to pull the trigger because of Griese, if not for that BONEHEAD would have been pulled long ago. I'll tell you though I believe the locker room is ready for this change
this time and would be all for it. I know they are sick of Bonehead being a liability instead of someone helping the team.

Sure the defense sucks in the last half last night but wouldn't it be a novel idea for the offense to bail the defense out once in a while or even once. The defense
gets a pass in my book, they have been on the field
much longer than they should be thanks to BONEHEAD
inability to be accurate and extend drives. The defense has had to consistently defend short field because of his inability to execute and his INTs. Thay have played great comparatively speaking over the course of the season while Bonehead has played like chit all year.

Northman

11-20-2006, 09:27 PM

That's B.S. I have said Jake sucked , along with other parts of the team, and I've gotten ragged on left and right for "blaming it on the D" or whatever....since when hasn't it been a team game? How do you know I'm being sarcastic? I haven't been...wow...just wow...reading into my posts now are you? (P.S. Maybe you would like to ask Hogan how I felt about Jake in the 2nd half of the Cleveland game...or in the game in Denver when we played KC...live and in person at both...) He'll tell you it wasnt positive.

For starters, no one has ever said it isnt a team game. Thats why we were talking about Jake's individual play. The funny thing is, if its a team game as you say than why was Brian Griese run out of town? Its ok to tout Jake's winning record in Denver as a team accomplishment but while Brian was here it was just Griese? That's a bit hypocritical dont you think?

Garcia Bronco

11-20-2006, 09:31 PM

He gets 3 years to prove himself

Bronco_Beerslug

11-20-2006, 09:36 PM

He gets 3 years to prove himselfWho says?

Popps

11-20-2006, 10:04 PM

"The Agenda Crowd"

LOL ROFL! LOL ROFL!

That's hilarious. The funniest part is that you're completely serious about it. You seriously believe that there are people who have some wierd agenda past seeing the Broncos win.

Just hilarious. "The Agenda Crowd."

You've become kindof a joke with that stuff. How about just admitting you were wrong about Jake?

Gosh, Taco. Why ever would YOU be the one to respond to that post.

LOL indeed.

We'll never get a chance to know if I was right or wrong about Jake, because my stance has never been about Jake. It's been about our continual refusal to field a championship defense.... even when Griese was here.

That's the difference between you and I, Taco. You see one person... one thing... nothing else. When I was bagging on Griese, I was ALSO calling for a front four for the defense.

When Jay takes over... I'll be doing the same thing if it hasn't been fixed. God knows what kind of misguided agenda you'll be pushing at that time. My guess is that you'll somehow turn Jay's success into you being "right" about something.

Talk about a joke. The guy with such a narrow, limited vision of Bronco football running a board is a joke.

I mean, since you wanted to get personal and all.

Having a bad day, Sparky?

Popps

11-20-2006, 10:06 PM

You must be in on "the Agenda!"

/pssss. We have secret chat meetings when Popps goes to sleep! Wait for the signal!

Once again, Taco. Why would you assume that was you?

Kind of telling, I guess.

I mean, I also think there are logical, knowledgeable posters around here with great takes who are in favor of bringing in Cutler.

But, you put yourself in the agenda class pretty quickly.

Interesting.

Kaylore

11-20-2006, 10:08 PM

You must be in on "the Agenda!"

/pssss. We have secret chat meetings when Popps goes to sleep! Wait for the signal!

Popps believes that if anyone finds out he is wrong about something the earth will implode. I seriously have images of him turning off his computer at night and shaking his fist swearing "I WILL defeat them! I WILL be right!"

Agenda crowd...does he know about our secret arm patches that are out?

Garcia Bronco

11-20-2006, 10:09 PM

Who says?

I say. You have a different opinion?

Kaylore

11-20-2006, 10:10 PM

Gosh, Taco. Why ever would YOU be the one to respond to that post.

LOL indeed.

We'll never get a chance to know if I was right or wrong about Jake, because my stance has never been about Jake. It's been about our continual refusal to field a championship defense.... even when Griese was here.

That's the difference between you and I, Taco. You see one person... one thing... nothing else. When I was bagging on Griese, I was ALSO calling for a front four for the defense.

When Jay takes over... I'll be doing the same thing if it hasn't been fixed. God knows what kind of misguided agenda you'll be pushing at that time. My guess is that you'll somehow turn Jay's success into you being "right" about something.

Talk about a joke. The guy with such a narrow, limited vision of Bronco football running a board is a joke.

I mean, since you wanted to get personal and all.

Having a bad day, Sparky?
There is seriously something wrong with you, dude. You're posts are insanity. "Agenda" on a fan message board? Wow. I don't even want to know how deep you think this goes.

-Slap-

11-20-2006, 10:12 PM

If Jay does start and sucks! How much time does he get to prove himself...what if he never proves himself...how many threads will there be on this board saying the Broncos blew a great draft pick and a shot at Maroney :thumbsup:

I'll be pissed for a while and then I'll make message board suggestions, which, while brilliant, will go unheeded by Shanahan and Sundquist.

I guess you Jake lovers will throw a big party.

SureShot

11-20-2006, 10:13 PM

Popps believes that if anyone finds out he is wrong about something the earth will implode. I seriously have images of him turning off his computer at night ans shaking his fist swearing "I WILL defeat them! I WILL be right!"

Agenda crowd...does he know about our secret arm patches that are out?

I just got mine in the mail.

ludo21

11-20-2006, 10:13 PM

What will i do?

Probably cry a little. ;D

The DL still has to be fixed, and the OL still has to block better in key situations or else Cutler wont do much better.

Northman

11-20-2006, 10:14 PM

I just got mine in the mail.

Me too, mine glows in the dark. Yours?

Taco John

11-20-2006, 10:15 PM

We'll never get a chance to know if I was right or wrong about Jake, because my stance has never been about Jake. It's been about our continual refusal to field a championship defense.... even when Griese was here.

Now you're REALLY starting to sound like me during the Griese days. "My argument isn't about Griese, it's about the offensive line and the lack of receiving depth."

That's the difference between you and I, Taco. You see one person... one thing... nothing else. When I was bagging on Griese, I was ALSO calling for a front four for the defense.

Actually, the differences are pretty minimal. And you're wrong. I don't see one person... one thing... nothing else. I just recognized a weak link early on, and it turns out that I was right.

When Jay takes over... I'll be doing the same thing if it hasn't been fixed. God knows what kind of misguided agenda you'll be pushing at that time. My guess is that you'll somehow turn Jay's success into you being "right" about something.

There it is again! "agenda!" That's good stuff. I hope you keep using it. This is good entertainment. You're right though. I do have an agenda: I want to see the Broncos win Championships. And I want to provide a place online for people to talk about it along the way... Duhn dun dun!

Talk about a joke. The guy with such a narrow, limited vision of Bronco football running a board is a joke.

My vision seems to be just fine. I was right about Jake when it wasn't popular to say anything about it. Sounds like you just don't want to admit you were wrong. That's understandable. It took me awhile to admit I was wrong about Griese. Since you're going through all of the same steps I went through with Griese, I could probably set my watch for your post admitting you were wrong about Jake. But then, I can admit when I'm wrong.

I mean, since you wanted to get personal and all.

Having a bad day, Sparky?

Other than the Broncos loss, things are just fine.

Taco John

11-20-2006, 10:17 PM

Once again, Taco. Why would you assume that was you?

Kind of telling, I guess.

I mean, I also think there are logical, knowledgeable posters around here with great takes who are in favor of bringing in Cutler.

But, you put yourself in the agenda class pretty quickly.

Interesting.

Well since you've constantly posted saying that I have an agenda, I only assumed that you were putting me in that crowd.

SureShot

11-20-2006, 10:18 PM

Me too, mine glows in the dark. Yours?

I'm not allowed to speak on the subject. Rule number 1: Don't talk about the AGENDA!

Northman

11-20-2006, 10:19 PM

I'm not allowed to speak on the subject. Rule number 1: Don't talk about the AGENDA!

:rofl: :thumbs:

Sassy

11-20-2006, 10:20 PM

Billy Clyde Puckett

11-20-2006, 10:26 PM

Girl would you please get over this. I swear it's like you have some sort of high school crush on JAKIE. Plummer has left us no other option, it is he alone that has done this to himself. It is quite right for everyone to be calling for him to be benched and as far as JAY, when compared to Plummer , he can't do worse and he has great upside and is accurate.
Regarding our QB their is no way it could be worse.

BS Jet. To date, there is no real proof that Cutler has any future in the NFL. He could easily be the next Ryan Leaf, even if we hope and pray he is the next Elway. What Sassy is saying is that she trusts the coach to make the right decision. Seems to me he is more qualified to make that decison than a bunch of madden freaks on this baord.

ludo21

11-20-2006, 10:32 PM

BS Jet. To date, there is no real proof that Cutler has any future in the NFL. He could easily be the next Ryan Leaf, even if we hope and pray he is the next Elway. What Sassy is saying is that she trusts the coach to make the right decision. Seems to me he is more qualified to make that decison than a bunch of madden freaks on this baord.

HOW DARE YOU DISRESPECT MY MADDEN DOMINATION!!!

Because of me we traded Plummer for Burgess and a 1st round pick!! We won the SB in dominating fashion over Seattle, and we are well on our way to do it AGAIN!!

Im very qualified buster!!

No1BroncoFan

11-20-2006, 10:36 PM

Three years to prove himself. We'll know well before then, but that's when you pull the plug if it doesn't work out.
Is that what you gave Jake?

Ben

-Slap-

11-20-2006, 10:37 PM

I would like to take a moment in an attempt to elevate the level of discussion on this thread.

:yayaya: "Jake Lover! Jake Lover! Sassy is a Jake Lover!" :kiss:

Thank you........:wave:

spdirty

11-20-2006, 10:38 PM

BS Jet. To date, there is no real proof that Cutler has any future in the NFL. He could easily be the next Ryan Leaf, even if we hope and pray he is the next Elway. What Sassy is saying is that she trusts the coach to make the right decision. Seems to me he is more qualified to make that decison than a bunch of madden freaks on this baord.

You want proof?? OK, here you go. Jay Cutler will be great because I say he will. No more text needed.

broncobum6162

11-20-2006, 10:42 PM

If Jay does start and sucks! How much time does he get to prove himself...what if he never proves himself...how many threads will there be on this board saying the Broncos blew a great draft pick and a shot at Maroney :thumbsup:

At least 3 years and remember that if we had picked Maroney, we woundn't have Jay as an alternative to Jake. In fact we would probably be bitching that we didn't pick up a good QB in the draft.Ha! Ha!

theAPAOps5

11-20-2006, 10:42 PM

Agenda crowd...does he know about our secret arm patches that are out?

Mine came today! It even has a decoder. But alas it spells out, "Buy more Malto Meal!"

Hercules Rockefeller

11-20-2006, 11:49 PM

Agenda crowd...does he know about our secret arm patches that are out?

He does now. You're out of the "Agenda" club because of that. It was much cooler when it was just me and TJ who had them back in '05 after we called the trade with the Skins would get the Broncos a QB in the 1st.

SureShot

11-20-2006, 11:51 PM

Stop talking about the AGENDA fools!

broncogary

11-21-2006, 12:00 AM

You must be in on "the Agenda!"

/pssss. We have secret chat meetings when Popps goes to sleep! Wait for the signal!

Damn it, it's "pssst!" Let's get this agenda straight. ;D

anthonypacino

11-21-2006, 12:07 AM

Jake is not Shanny's mistake. He didnt draft him. He had to choose the lesser of 2 evils, Jake or Kordel Stewert. The team wasnt able to draft a "franchise" QB until now. Jake was only carrying the torch until Shanny got HIS man. We must wait to see if he made the right choice.

SoCalBronco

11-21-2006, 12:19 AM

I would like to take a moment in an attempt to elevate the level of discussion on this thread.

:yayaya: "Jake Lover! Jake Lover! Sassy is a Jake Lover!" :kiss:

Thank you........:wave:

There goes Hogan's Plummer jersey (if he had one). :)

Sassy

11-21-2006, 12:20 AM

Hey now...I do have an orange Ash one that I'll give anyone! LOL!

Popps

11-21-2006, 01:36 AM

There is seriously something wrong with you, dude. You're posts are insanity. "Agenda" on a fan message board? Wow. I don't even want to know how deep you think this goes.

Dude, turn down the "drama-queen" knob from 9 to about 3.

I mean, if you don't think some people on this board are hard-wired to a particular point of view to the point of twisting all facts in favor of that point of view (agenda, or whatever you want to call it)... you're either blind or pretending to be blind.

You've also got great posters who flex as the facts flex... see big pictures, etc.

I didn't name names... you and Taco just immediately threw hissy-fits after reading that post.

Weird, huh?

Taco John

11-21-2006, 01:50 AM

Dude, turn down the "drama-queen" knob from 9 to about 3.

I mean, if you don't think some people on this board are hard-wired to a particular point of view to the point of twisting all facts in favor of that point of view (agenda, or whatever you want to call it)... you're either blind or pretending to be blind.

You've also got great posters who flex as the facts flex... see big pictures, etc.

I didn't name names... you and Taco just immediately threw hissy-fits after reading that post.

Weird, huh?

If by "hissy fit" you mean "hysterical laughter" then yeah. It's becoming a pretty good joke. You've been saying that I am part of some agenda for months now, so I'm not sure why it's so weird that I'd comment on it after you brought the take up once again.

I just think it's funny. The Agenda Crowd: Out to get poor, innocent Jake, the first "Win" in the "Win/Win" situation. They might even support Jay if he struggles! Can you believe those Agenda Driven people! :cuss:

Crushaholic

11-21-2006, 01:52 AM

...and what's with the "talking down" to Sassy?:kiddingme

DeusExManning

11-21-2006, 02:32 AM

Look I don't want Bronco fans to be freaks that flip out after every single play. I gave Jake a long time and was extremely understanding. I give Jake 5 years.

Popps

11-21-2006, 03:38 AM

If by "hissy fit" you mean "hysterical laughter" then yeah.

Nah, I meant hissy fit. You got your panties twisted and even got personal.

I just think it's funny. The Agenda Crowd: Out to get poor, innocent Jake, the first "Win" in the "Win/Win" situation. They might even support Jay if he struggles! Can you believe those Agenda Driven people! :cuss:

Poor Jake? Did I say that? You got me mixed up with the other agenda types. Jake earned his criticism last night. He deserved it.

I mean, my stance couldn't be more clear. So, it's not surprising that you'd have trouble with it.

As for supporting Cutler, I hope people give the kid a chance. Some won't.
Then, some will support him until their death even if he plays poorly, because it's all about being "right."

As for win/win... it's just that. We're 7-3 with our current QB and have a blue chip prospect behind him if things continue going south. As for the QB position, we're in better shape than most teams in the league. I couldn't be happier about this team's future at QB... and I'll trust Shanahan's timing on when to move to Jay.

But, you keep stomping around in a huff. It's good internet.

Atlas

11-21-2006, 03:53 AM

If Jay does start and sucks! How much time does he get to prove himself...what if he never proves himself...how many threads will there be on this board saying the Broncos blew a great draft pick and a shot at Maroney :thumbsup:

You know what will happen. It will be just like when Griese started over Bubby and everyone kept making excuses for Greise even as the losses mounted. 4 games into the season Denver was 0-4 and Denver had no chance to defend their Superbowl title.

Northman

11-21-2006, 06:27 AM

You know what will happen. It will be just like when Griese started over Bubby and everyone kept making excuses for Greise even as the losses mounted. 4 games into the season Denver was 0-4 and Denver had no chance to defend their Superbowl title.

Yea, that was bad. With Brian being in his what? 12th Year as a starter.........oh wait.

watermock

11-21-2006, 06:37 AM

If Jay does start and sucks! How much time does he get to prove himself...what if he never proves himself...how many threads will there be on this board saying the Broncos blew a great draft pick and a shot at Maroney :thumbsup:

If, ands and Butts when he hasn't taken a snap yet?

Rather desperate parting shot for Jake? I have this image of Sassy allready digging a grave up in the frozen tundra of ND to bury Jay before he even takes a snap.

Jake has been playing worse than Griese ever did.

watermock

11-21-2006, 06:41 AM

BTW, in limited action for Da Bears...Greise has completed 87% of his passes for a 90 rating.

Kaylore

11-21-2006, 06:51 AM

Turf Shaman

11-21-2006, 07:10 AM

BS Jet. To date, there is no real proof that Cutler has any future in the NFL. He could easily be the next Ryan Leaf, even if we hope and pray he is the next Elway.

There's no real proof he's going to be Ryan Leaf. If players had to prove they could play in the NFL before they play, there would be exactly 0 players in the NFL. You know, because they need to play to prove themselves.

But look, pre season performance means something. Why do you think they play preseason games? If your team goes 4-0 or 0-4 in the preseason, that is meaningless. If a player performs the way Cutler did in the preseason, it DOES carry an indication about his future in the NFL. There are plenty of indications he won't be Ryan Leaf. Proof? Not exactly, but go back to my first statement.

You want proof, what has Jake Plummer proved in 10 seasons? Going back to the question posed to start this thread, if Jay starts this season and sucks, I'm going to give a rookie starter a ton more slack than a 10 year vet. And you know what? It'll basically be a wash if he sucks anyway. That is the one and only reason we are even debating starting a rookie. Because Jake has been sucking so badly. I'd be patient with Jay until his 3rd season.

But he's not going to suck. He's got too much talent, he's surrounded by too much talent, and he's got too much good coaching around him to suck.

Atlas

11-21-2006, 07:58 AM

Rather desperate parting shot for Jake? I have this image of Sassy allready digging a grave up in the frozen tundra of ND to bury Jay before he even takes a snap.

Mock you know that they don't bury anyone in North Dakota until the spring with the ground thaws!!

rbackfactory80

11-21-2006, 09:39 AM

You want proof?? OK, here you go. Jay Cutler will be great because I say he will. No more text needed.

Thats what scares me the most.

clarkster

11-21-2006, 09:52 AM

again, not saying one or the other is the answer, all i want to know is what the "experts" know that the coaching staff doesnt? Thus far Ive read about a kabillion(yeah its a number) jay will be the man posts, yet nobody has yet to provide anything other than that. how do we know? preseason? college at V-bilt? what-the-****-ever does that get you? im no jake lover, im really curious about what this kid has done to convince you all that hes the answer?
i present you a couple of examples
Tim Couch
Ryan Leaf
GRIESE
etc etc.

Again i ask, not to start an argument, just really want to know. i guess the question is what will we do if the kid starts and he sucks? make excuses? blame someone else?

Mile High Shack

11-21-2006, 09:58 AM

I've already seen him play. He doesn't suck, Plummer sucks. Nice of you to continually bring up the possibility though. What are you going to do when you see he can actually play the position?

do you have Hiro Nakimora powers and can teleport into the future?

how did he looks against regular season defenses?

good?

man I hope so

clarkster

11-21-2006, 10:03 AM

Billy Clyde Puckett

11-21-2006, 10:42 AM

[QUOTE=Turf Shaman;1365236]But look, pre season performance means something. Why do you think they play preseason games? If your team goes 4-0 or 0-4 in the preseason, that is meaningless. If a player performs the way Cutler did in the preseason, it DOES carry an indication about his future in the NFL. QUOTE]

No one hopes more than me that Cutler is the real deal, but Shanahan sees him every day in practice and still has not even given him reps with the first team. Ryan Leaf looked great in a couple of practice games, so did Heath Schuler, Todd Marinovitch, David Klinger, Andre Ware, Tim Couch and even Akili Smith.

Shanahan will put the players on the field that give the Broncs the best chance to win. With as poorly as Plummer has been playing, you have to realize there is a possibility that Cutler is not what we hope he is.

Tredici

11-21-2006, 10:55 AM

Back to the original question. I dunno. Jake is what? A ten year vet and the fan base is divided over giving him a pass (hahah) for sucking. In 1999 his third year in the league he had a 50.8 rating and got honorable mention as possibly one of the worst quarterback performances in the history of the NFL, yet here he is on a good franchise still playing.

I could be wrong but I think most people realize it isn't easy to come into the league with instant success. But why we need to speculate on the possibility of the kid being any worse than the guy we have behind center was in his early career, I don't know.

Why we have to compare the performance of a newbie to a supposedly proven vet, I dunno.

To me there is very little to compare between the two. If Cutler can't manage the offense I imagine the team will go out and find someone who they think will do better. Big deal.

Turf Shaman

11-21-2006, 11:16 AM

No one hopes more than me that Cutler is the real deal, but Shanahan sees him every day in practice and still has not even given him reps with the first team. Ryan Leaf looked great in a couple of practice games, so did Heath Schuler, Todd Marinovitch, David Klinger, Andre Ware, Tim Couch and even Akili Smith.

Shanahan will put the players on the field that give the Broncs the best chance to win. With as poorly as Plummer has been playing, you have to realize there is a possibility that Cutler is not what we hope he is.

I realize there is a possibility he won't be what we hope he is, but listing off Leaf, Schuler, etc. is just as pointless as listing off Manning, Brady, etc. Cutler isn't a name on any of those lists, and I have confidence that Cutler is not Ryan Leaf. If that's something you want to concern yourself with, feel free, but neither of us will know who's right until he plays.

As far as why Shanahan hasn't gone to Cutler yet, let's take a closer look at the situation. Shanahan does believe in the principal that it is not wise to play a rookie QB, that a QB should sit a year or two and learn about defenses. And while he can't be happy with how Plummer is playing, the decision to go with Cutler regardless of how he has looked can't be an easy one, for the simple fact that the Broncos have managed to win games in spite of Plummer's performance. There were rumours that Shanahan would give Plummer the games against Indy and Pittsburgh to prove himself, and as it turns out, he played well in those two games, two of only three games this season where he played particularly well. Shanahan knows once he makes the switch, he can't go back, so those performances bought Plummer more time. But he has regressed badly these past two weeks. I tend to agree with the idea that the only reason Plummer hasn't been officially replaced yet is because of the short week. If Plummer plays well against KC, maybe he buys himself a bit more time.

In other words, it's Plummer's play that is forcing Shanahan to consider playing Cutler. I doubt it's because Shanahan has doubts about what Cutler has done in practice this season. He didn't want to consider it at all, and if Plummer was anything more than awful this season, he still wouldn't be, even if Cutler looked great in practice.

fontaine

11-21-2006, 11:23 AM

I could be wrong but I think most people realize it isn't easy to come into the league with instant success.

I hope you're not wrong.

Why we have to compare the performance of a newbie to a supposedly proven vet, I dunno.

Exactly. The kid will no doubt struggle in his first season of play. I'm not expecting anything out of him next year, much less a rookie this season.

It's going to be up to our defense/Running Game to keep us competitive till the kid catches up.

Sassy

11-21-2006, 11:26 AM

If, ands and Butts when he hasn't taken a snap yet?

Rather desperate parting shot for Jake? I have this image of Sassy allready digging a grave up in the frozen tundra of ND to bury Jay before he even takes a snap.

Jake has been playing worse than Griese ever did.

"If, ands, and Butts"....not like everyone else isn't doing the same...and I'm the one getting slammed on this thread...nice....Good thing, I'm in a fighting mood! LOL!

ONE MORE TIME: I am not defending Jake...I am saying go with Shanahan on what he thinks is the best for the team and if that's Jay, I'll support that. I have nothing against Jay at all! Some of you "assume" (Slap, Anubis, Jetmeck...) I am a "Jake Lover" just because I don't want Jay in there yet...you couldn't be more wrong. (I forgive Mock picking on me because I'm FEMALE...since he is, however a VIKING fan...) ROFL!

Taco John

11-21-2006, 11:31 AM

"If, ands, and Butts"....not like everyone else isn't doing the same...and I'm the one getting slammed on this thread...nice....Good thing, I'm in a fighting mood! LOL!

ONE MORE TIME: I am not defending Jake...I am saying go with Shanahan on what he thinks is the best for the team and if that's Jay, I'll support that. I have nothing against Jay at all! Some of you "assume" (Slap, Anubis, Jetmeck...) I am a "Jake Lover" just because I don't want Jay in there yet...you couldn't be more wrong.

Getting slammed is nothing new. I've been slammed ever since I first started criticizing Jake. I've been accused of everything from having an agenda, to abandoning Elway after his Superbowl losses because I dared to say that Jake would be a roadblock to our Superbowl chances. It just goes with the territory.

Billy Clyde Puckett

11-21-2006, 11:40 AM

As far as why Shanahan hasn't gone to Cutler yet, let's take a closer look at the situation. .

There are two things I know.

1. The coaches will play the players that give the team the best chance to win regardless of all of the speculation outside of the organization.

2. Those coaches know much more about the pluses and minuses of both of those QBs than anyone here.

I'll trust the coaches judgement and that does not make me a Jake lover or a Cutler hater.

Meck77

11-21-2006, 12:01 PM

This is going to be a fun thread to reflect on next season as the "Cutler is the man threads appear-after a win" and "cutler sucks threads appear-after a loss".

TailgateNut

11-21-2006, 12:50 PM

There are two things I know.

1. The coaches will play the players that give the team the best chance to win regardless of all of the speculation outside of the organization.

2. Those coaches know much more about the pluses and minuses of both of those QBs than anyone here.

I'll trust the coaches judgement and that does not make me a Jake lover or a Cutler hater.

Move over Big Guy, I'm getting on this wagon with ya. There are way too many variables which coaches use to determine who starts and who warms the bench. One can also start a rookie and ruin his carreer by feeding him to the wolves (Denver Fans w/ regard to QB's).
We can all guess how good/bad Cutler will be, but one thing is certain, once Shanny starts him, he will be the QB and there will be no return of Jake, IMHO. Maybe he does know something the Tarot Card Readers here do not know.

Barry Ramey

11-21-2006, 01:28 PM

Ah, some are saying three years to give Cutler, but I bet he won't get that. If this were the Lions, sure, he'd get plenty of time since on a bad team. But I have a hard time believing most fans wouldn't get on Cutler if he had a typical 1st year starting experience at QB and the team dropped to say 8-8 or 7-9.

Sassy

11-21-2006, 01:37 PM

Yep...they'd be calling for Shanahan to draft another QB...

Rashomon

11-21-2006, 01:38 PM

[QUOTE=Turf Shaman;1365236]Shanahan will put the players on the field that give the Broncs the best chance to win. With as poorly as Plummer has been playing, you have to realize there is a possibility that Cutler is not what we hope he is.

There is that possibility, but another one is that making a QB change in mid-season, especially on a playoff-caliber team, is one of the most difficult decisions that a coach can make. The fact that a change has not already been made does not necessarily reflect on Cutler's abilities. Bill Parcells is lamenting the fact that he took so long to switch to Romo. Ben R. would have stayed on the bench in Pittsburgh if Maddox hadn't gotten hurt. The same is true for Tom Brady if Bledsoe wasn't injured, even though everyone that watched NE knew that Brady was the better (but inexperienced) QB coming out of training camp that year.

In answer to the original question, I have heard a good rule of thumb is that it takes 16 starts before you can really start determining what you have in a QB. Is he making progress? Does he continually make the same mistakes? Assuming Cutler is the opening day starter in 2007, I think the FO would probably give him two full seasons before they seriously address the position if Cutler doesn't look like he is going to meet expectations. I am sure there are plenty of fans that won't wait that long.

If Cutler does start against Seattle, his situation would closely mirror that of Eli Manning's rookie season. I just hope the results would be better. Manning took over for Warner when the Giants were 5-4, having lost their last 2 games with poor QB play. Manning then promptly went 1-6 that year, and the Giants finished at 6-10. They did win their division the following year at 11-5, but Manning definitely struggled his rookie year.

Taco John

11-21-2006, 01:39 PM

Yep...they'd be calling for Shanahan to draft another QB...

I already think that would be a good idea. Maybe a 5th or 6th rounder we can groom into a back-up role, who can develop without any pressure and step in if Jay goes bust.

Popps

11-21-2006, 02:05 PM

This is going to be a fun thread to reflect on next season as the "Cutler is the man threads appear-after a win" and "cutler sucks threads appear-after a loss".

Rest assured, no matter how it plays out... everyone is going to insist they were "right" about the whole thing.

I'll just be happy if the kid plays well.

I've said all along that I think he will, and fast. Hmm... so, if Cutler plays well, do I get to say, "I TOLD YOU SO!?!!"

ROFL!

BroncoInferno

11-21-2006, 02:05 PM

I already think that would be a good idea. Maybe a 5th or 6th rounder we can groom into a back-up role, who can develop without any pressure and step in if Jay goes bust.

It used to always impress me how the Packers could develope those late round QBs (Brunell, Hasselback, and Brooks) and then, not needing them with Favre in tow, trade them for first day draft picks. It'd be nice if we could do the same.

Northman

11-21-2006, 03:34 PM

i would absolutely be thrilled if this kid rolls off the bench and smokes everyone, again i ask, what makes everyone think this is what hes going to do?
i for one am not convinced because other teams have had luck with new QBs. all i want to know is what makes him IT?
if he isnt it, what will everyone say then? fire shanny, Oline sucks, blah blah blah.

So then i will ask you. Would it kill us to see what he CAN do? As opposed to a Qb who is in there right now underperforming? People are getting criticized on here for having a pessimistic outlook on Jake because of the PROOF of how he is playing is quite evident. But.... people are also getting criticized because they are optimistic about a new Qb who was highly touted coming out of college. There are no guarantees in life Clark but at this point in time it sure as hell wouldnt hurt to see if he can do more than what Jake offers. People have already put their belief in Jake and it has backfired, now they put their belief in a youngster who looks very promising. I dont have a problem with that. The only people who have a problem with that are the ones who want a underperforming Qb to stay in because they cant face the reality that he isnt what they thought he was.

Billy Clyde Puckett

11-21-2006, 04:00 PM

So then i will ask you. Would it kill us to see what he CAN do? As opposed to a Qb who is in there right now underperforming? People are getting criticized on here for having a pessimistic outlook on Jake because of the PROOF of how he is playing is quite evident. But.... people are also getting criticized because they are optimistic about a new Qb who was highly touted coming out of college. There are no guarantees in life Clark but at this point in time it sure as hell wouldnt hurt to see if he can do more than what Jake offers. People have already put their belief in Jake and it has backfired, now they put their belief in a youngster who looks very promising. I dont have a problem with that. The only people who have a problem with that are the ones who want a underperforming Qb to stay in because they cant face the reality that he isnt what they thought he was.

There are a good number of us who trust the professional coaches to determine which players give the Broncos the best chance to win now.

Tredici

11-21-2006, 04:37 PM

Yep...they'd be calling for Shanahan to draft another QB...

I mean really. So what?

Of course I have a hard time believing all the threads dedicated to gnashing teeth over substituting a guy who has proven ineffectual at managing the offense for one who might prove ineffectual.

Silly stuff.

I'm also sure if Shanahan does make the switch and Jay struggles we'll still get all the "In Shanahan we trust to have the right guy in" posts.

I can't even worry about this any more because reading all this stuff (from all factions) has taken on the comically absurb to me.

labronx

11-21-2006, 05:28 PM

There are a good number of us who trust the professional coaches to determine which players give the Broncos the best chance to win now.

Thats fine keep trusting them....
It doesnt change the FACT that Plummer is playing bad, straight up no joke about it and it also doesn't change the fact that we have a right to be objective even if we trust the coach.

I trust Mike and would have liked a change earlier, perhaps, right after the STL game.

I came into this season before I saw EVER Cutler play, with the hopes, all though not really confident in, that Jake would play better.

He has not met my expectations and so I've been wanting a change.

I still trust Shanahan to do the what I think is the right thing, at this point I dont think we will win a SuperBowl and really did not have expectations of it to begin with.

Once I seen Cutler play, I knew instantly we could win a The Lombardi Trophy down the road. I feel he gave us a way better chance.

Northman

11-21-2006, 05:29 PM

Rest assured, no matter how it plays out... everyone is going to insist they were "right" about the whole thing.

I'll just be happy if the kid plays well.

I've said all along that I think he will, and fast. Hmm... so, if Cutler plays well, do I get to say, "I TOLD YOU SO!?!!"

ROFL!

Nope. Im not letting you on the wagon. **** off. ;)

Northman

11-21-2006, 05:37 PM

There are a good number of us who trust the professional coaches to determine which players give the Broncos the best chance to win now.

Who cares? That has absolutely zero to do with anything regarding what i posted. You can trust the coaches all you want, i dont give a ****. But dont come in and start haggling people who want to see a change. Im quite aware that what is said here isnt the bible for how the coaches make their decisions. But, this is a messageboard and we do have the option to speak on issues that concern us.

labronx

11-21-2006, 05:43 PM

Nope. Im not letting you on the wagon. **** off. ;)

seriously,

what a joke..

I dont post alot, but I freaking lurk all day at the office.
I have watched Popps go from not even wanting to give Cutler a chance, to even going as far as saying that he might suck to saying that those who dont support Plummer(during the first 5 games) are bad fans and personal attacks, to saying that he would support Cutler(thats when I knew he was starting to make some waffles), to the whole "Agenda" joke to know even trying an "I told you so" approach.

LOL

He's been all over the place.

All you have to do is admit you are wrong....I've knonw all along this was going to happen to Plummer the thing that compounded the situation was Kaylore's reports and Shanny not benching Plummer or atleast giving Cutler some time to play. This drove "Taco and Cronies" nutts, because until Cutler plays Taco can't really for sure say I told you so!

Kaylore

11-21-2006, 05:53 PM

In the interest of a balanced board, I made some propaganda posters to support Popp's world-view. I hope they are put to good use.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=17952&stc=1&d=1164149155
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=17953&stc=1&d=1164149155
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=17954&stc=1&d=1164149155

Hercules Rockefeller

11-21-2006, 06:04 PM

The last one is the best

Northman

11-21-2006, 06:22 PM

Billy Clyde Puckett

11-21-2006, 06:24 PM

Who cares? That has absolutely zero to do with anything regarding what i posted. You can trust the coaches all you want, i dont give a ****. But dont come in and start haggling people who want to see a change. Im quite aware that what is said here isnt the bible for how the coaches make their decisions. But, this is a messageboard and we do have the option to speak on issues that concern us.

I never said you could not state your opinion. I stated mine. :sickortir

Northman

11-21-2006, 06:26 PM

I never said you could not state your opinion. I stated mine. :sickortir

Your opinion had nothing to do with what i posted so why bother quoting me then?

Kaylore

11-21-2006, 08:30 PM

This is going to be a fun thread to reflect on next season as the "Cutler is the man threads appear-after a win" and "cutler sucks threads appear-after a loss".

SoCal mentioned it was like this during the Griese years. He said that after Griese had a good game Taco would make an "apologize here Popps" thread and that after every bad Griese game, Popps would make posts like "Show Yourself, Taco!" and "Defend Griese now!" Pretty funny and crazy how the board is polarized once more. I'm just grateful we have an alternative to Plummer.

SoCalBronco

11-21-2006, 09:22 PM

SureShot

11-21-2006, 09:45 PM

Taco John

11-21-2006, 09:51 PM

SoCal mentioned it was like this during the Griese years. He said that after Griese had a good game Taco would make an "apologize here Popps" thread and that after every bad Griese game, Popps would make posts like "Show Yourself, Taco!" and "Defend Griese now!" Pretty funny and crazy how the board is polarized once more. I'm just grateful we have an alternative to Plummer.

Not quite like that. Popps started regularly visiting the board in late 2002, about the time that the Griese situation was melting down in a fiery ball. By the time Popps came on board, it was clear even to me that Griese was out, but on his way out I was arguing that we should keep Griese around for another season to provide competition to Jake, and save us a lot of dead cap money. Much like people are doing now, I argued that it wasn't all Jake's fault. That he lost his tight end. That he did too have heart, hence being the two time winner of "The All-Heart Award" (whatever in the hell that is, I haven't seen it since they gave it to Griese). Basically that he wasn't the devil and that the team had offensive issues that needed to be addressed, namely offensive line and Wide receiver. The defense at the time had the same issues that we have now, except worse... We didn't have a secondary to speak of. But Griese got all of the hate and pressure, and I thought it was unfair. I thought he could be salvaged as a back-up, and still believe he'd have accepted the role, so long as he had a chance to compete for the starting job. I thought that we could then cut him June 2 of the following year and save us a few million in cap space-- money that we could use to persue offensive linemen (ala Willie Roaf) and defensive upgrades (boy did we need them at the time).

Before Popps and me (Dec. 2002 - June 2003), it was Errand vs. the girls. I would get involved in those skirmishes (along with everyone else -- Errand was the bad guy at that time hammering Griese for years prior to his dismissal), but it was much more entertaining watching the Girls and Errand go back and forth.

Indeed, it got real ugly at the end. January 2003 was much uglier than anything we've seen during the Jake era. It was a rough crowd in here back then. A lot of fun, but definitely a lot of bickering.

Hogan11

11-21-2006, 10:17 PM

There goes Hogan's Plummer jersey (if he had one). :)

I actually do have one....it's the last replica jersey I'm ever throwing my money away on. It'll hit eBay by the end of the year.

As for Cutler....I agree with three years as a proper time frame after being dubbed the starter. Plummer won me over in '03 and he's losing me now...I'm (reluctantly) willing to ride out the season with Jake, unless things go into a total meltdown and the season becomes lost.

Kaylore

11-22-2006, 01:32 AM

Ahhh.....the good ol days. I was actually an even bigger homer for Griese than Taco, and I still am. But you are right, the QB has always been a very polarizing figure here at the Mane. Always factions, heated debates etc. It's still not as much of an adversarial atmosphere as back then, but its getting there.

Isn't that weird that we were talking about this at camp and that's what it's become? I think I even foolishly told you that it couldn't get that way. I was so confident that Jake would have a good year this season. So weird.

Tredici

11-22-2006, 01:35 AM

I watch the offense. I watch Jake. I guess I'm one of the few people who want to curl into the fetal position and cry for Kubiak. What a difference his absence has made.

SureShot

11-22-2006, 01:35 AM

Isn't that weird that we were talking about this at camp and that's what it's become? I think I even foolishly told you that it couldn't get that way. I was so confident that Jake would have a good year this season. So weird.

You wanted Cutler to be the #3 qb as well.:wave:

Blueflame

11-22-2006, 01:55 AM

Not quite like that. Popps started regularly visiting the board in late 2002, about the time that the Griese situation was melting down in a fiery ball. By the time Popps came on board, it was clear even to me that Griese was out, but on his way out I was arguing that we should keep Griese around for another season to provide competition to Jake, and save us a lot of dead cap money. Much like people are doing now, I argued that it wasn't all Jake's fault. That he lost his tight end. That he did too have heart, hence being the two time winner of "The All-Heart Award" (whatever in the hell that is, I haven't seen it since they gave it to Griese). Basically that he wasn't the devil and that the team had offensive issues that needed to be addressed, namely offensive line and Wide receiver. The defense at the time had the same issues that we have now, except worse... We didn't have a secondary to speak of. But Griese got all of the hate and pressure, and I thought it was unfair. I thought he could be salvaged as a back-up, and still believe he'd have accepted the role, so long as he had a chance to compete for the starting job. I thought that we could then cut him June 2 of the following year and save us a few million in cap space-- money that we could use to persue offensive linemen (ala Willie Roaf) and defensive upgrades (boy did we need them at the time).

Before Popps and me (Dec. 2002 - June 2003), it was Errand vs. the girls. I would get involved in those skirmishes (along with everyone else -- Errand was the bad guy at that time hammering Griese for years prior to his dismissal), but it was much more entertaining watching the Girls and Errand go back and forth.

Indeed, it got real ugly at the end. January 2003 was much uglier than anything we've seen during the Jake era. It was a rough crowd in here back then. A lot of fun, but definitely a lot of bickering.

Ah, yes... back then, the board featured many heated debates about Frerotte... Ha!

penguintheory

11-22-2006, 01:56 AM

Popps

11-22-2006, 02:13 AM

SoCal mentioned it was like this during the Griese years. He said that after Griese had a good game Taco would make an "apologize here Popps" thread and that after every bad Griese game, Popps would make posts like "Show Yourself, Taco!" and "Defend Griese now!" Pretty funny and crazy how the board is polarized once more. I'm just grateful we have an alternative to Plummer.

The thing was, Griese brought nothing. He brought no leadership, no mobility, no do-it-yourself, no nothing. He was ho-hum, and seemed generally disinterested in the whole thing.

Fans got sick of it. He looked great early on, then had the injury... and just never was the same. To make matters worse, there were constant mutterings that guys didn't like playing with him. The fans were certainly done with him.

i said we needed a guy who could do a little on his own. Someone with the ability to elude a rush, maybe be creative from time to time, etc.

Shanahan agreed and went out and brought in Plummer, who was he best option at the time.

The franchise went on a tear second only to Elway with regards to wins over a time period, and CLEARLY with much less talent. We needed a shot in the arm from the QB position, and we got it. It was all pretty simple to see.

The other thing we needed was some real play-makers in the front seven. (I was here saying that LOUD AND CLEAR during the Griese era, btw.)
We never got those defensive play-makers, and hence we continue to melt-down in big games to the tune of 30-40 points.

So, now the QB who ignited the team is struggling, and we'll move on to a blue chip prospect. It'll certainly help the offense. I can't wait to see the kid play. I love what Plummer did for us, but never turn down a chance to get better at any position, and I think that's what Cutler represents.

We'll move forward with Jay here in the near future, and the question will remain.... are we going to ever field a championship defense again? Will we dump the whole thing on Cutler's shoulders? I hope not.

Like Champ, Lynch, Al, Rod and others... Cutler deserves a fighting chance, and we'll never have that with pretenders in the front seven.

As I've said before. You'll see me here saying the same things I've been saying.

Fast forward two years, assuming we don't get serious about the defense....

Me: ....."dude, the defense blew a 24 point lead in the 2nd half. Cutler didn't throw any INTs. How is that HIS fault? How many points does this offense have to put up to be safe? At what point do we ask the defense to show up in a big game?

Message board dude: ....."STFU YOU IDIOT! If Cutler doesn't throw that INT in the first quarter, we could have gone up by 35!!!! CUTLER IS A BUST!!!!!"

Kaylore

11-22-2006, 02:16 AM

You wanted Cutler to be the #3 qb as well.:wave:

:spit: Whatever gave you that idea? I never said anything like that and I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest I'm not very fond of BVP.

Taco John

11-22-2006, 02:20 AM

...and CLEARLY with much less talent.

You're saying that the last three teams have "CLEARLY" much less talent than the post TD/Eddie Mac Broncos? Our starting left tackle was a freaking back-up center.

How do you get off accusing anyone of having an agenda with such slanted football takes... Slanted, or just plain bad. Flip a coin.

SureShot

11-22-2006, 02:22 AM

I'm just messing with you Kaylore but,

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=191974

footstepsfrom#27

11-22-2006, 02:45 AM

Well I doubt seriously that he gets the NEXT 9 YEARS like Jake has had to prove himself...maybe we can settle on half that. Fair?

On another note...
"The Agenda Crowd"

LOL ROFL! LOL ROFL!

That's hilarious. The funniest part is that you're completely serious about it. You seriously believe that there are people who have some wierd agenda past seeing the Broncos win.

Just hilarious. "The Agenda Crowd."

You've become kind of a joke with that stuff. How about just admitting you were wrong about Jake?
Good point Taco...now how 'bout YOU admitting that also...check out this from the first thread pointing to a QB controversy way back on May 1, 2006...a mere 205 pages ago:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41694&highlight=brister

The only way Plummer loses his job is if he pulls a Bubby and starts to tank it in the preseason and goes to the media with the take that "they're only preseason games anyway." Jake gives us our best shot at winning it all this year. -Taco John- May 1, 2006; Some Reasons why Jay Cutler Might Start in 2006; post #13

My how the pendulum has swung in just 6 months...LOL...I believe 2 other people on that thread besides me thought the current scenario was possible...now most of this board is praying for it. :twokisses

-Slap-

11-22-2006, 03:12 AM

It used to always impress me how the Packers could develope those late round QBs (Brunell, Hasselback, and Brooks) and then, not needing them with Favre in tow, trade them for first day draft picks. It'd be nice if we could do the same.

Ron Wolf had a real hot streak there drafting QBs for awhile, didn't he?

Taco John

11-22-2006, 03:21 AM

Well I doubt seriously that he gets the NEXT 9 YEARS like Jake has had to prove himself...maybe we can settle on half that. Fair?

On another note...

Good point Taco...now how 'bout YOU admitting that also...check out this from the first thread pointing to a QB controversy way back on May 1, 2006...a mere 205 pages ago:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41694&highlight=brister

My how the pendulum has swung in just 6 months...LOL...I believe 2 other people on that thread besides me thought the current scenario was possible...now most of this board is praying for it. :twokisses

You're right. Before I saw Cutler throw a pass, I bought into the idea that a Veteran gave us the best opportunity to win this season. It wasn't even an argument for me until Jay came in during the pre-season and blew Jake away. That's when my tune changed. Especially after watching Jake against the Rams in week one, which still seems like yesterday to me.

Blueflame

11-22-2006, 03:43 AM

Well I doubt seriously that he gets the NEXT 9 YEARS like Jake has had to prove himself...maybe we can settle on half that. Fair?

On another note...

Good point Taco...now how 'bout YOU admitting that also...check out this from the first thread pointing to a QB controversy way back on May 1, 2006...a mere 205 pages ago:

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41694&highlight=brister

My how the pendulum has swung in just 6 months...LOL...I believe 2 other people on that thread besides me thought the current scenario was possible...now most of this board is praying for it. :twokisses

From a May 1, 2006 vantage point, few Broncos fans could possibly have predicted Plummer's precipitous drop in performance. Indeed, if he were performing at anywhere near the same level as he did in 2005, no one here would be even contemplating the possibility of a QB change. That's not on TJ; it's on Jake. Given that his QB ratings were 84.5 and higher throughout his tenure in Denver, a return to a Cardinals-esque 69.7 wasn't something most of us anticipated. Under most circumstances, one can expect a 10-year veteran with three seasons' worth of experience in the offensive system to play at a much higher level than the average rookie.

penguintheory

11-22-2006, 04:19 AM

This thread is comparing apples and oranges. If Jay Cutler still sucks after 10 years of starting in the NFL, then we'll talk.

clarkster

11-22-2006, 07:42 AM

again ill say it...i do want to see the new guy, and i hope hes as good as the experts here say he is. however, i dont think im ready to put an un proven, unknown rook in on a 7-3 season, with a great chance still to take the AFCW. thats me, theres alot of QBs out there that are sucking ass right now, insert Favre, hes pretty good, struggling, eli manning, another pretty good one, struggling(and HES GOT THE SAME TOOLS AS JAKE), the list goes on. someone with more time can look it up and post the stats. all im saying is that while i share your frustrations and have since the departure of #7, i dont think its practical to throw an unproven rook in on a 7-3 season. make no mistake, i hate the fact that on a 3rd and long or God forbid, 4th and 1, i feel like i have to close my eyes, but i think were all too quick to say "Jake sucks, put in the rook" which coincedentally is probably why were all here and not in the front office.

errand

12-02-2006, 06:41 PM

Ah, yes... back then, the board featured many heated debates about Frerotte... Ha!

I recall you guys wanting Jarious Jackson to replace Gus.

Well, Mike's made the move to Cutler. Hope it works out for us. I still don't think you start a rookie when you have chance to make the playoffs, but then again Mike probably figured he had to do something to get the offense back on track. Too bad for Jake, but he played his way out of a job I guess.

Now if Mike can find a way to keep opposing RB's from running for 200 yards on us.

I'm rooting for Jay to light Seattle up this week. Like I've said...I love the Broncos, not any one player. Just win baby!

errand

12-02-2006, 07:04 PM

What if he does worlds better and the team starts winning convincingly? Will you come back and eat all the crow?

Anubis...you do realize that staring Jay over Jake will not improve our defense, don't you? We got punked the last 2 weeks because Larry Johnson ran all over us....just like LT did. If Shaun alexander runs just as well, who our QB is won't matter.

She didn't say Jay stunk. She just wanted to know what people would say if this move doesn't improve the team?

How many people cursed Mike for trading away a perrenial 1,500 yard rusher in Portis? They didn't believe it would improve the team by doing so.

How many people cursed Mike for letting Griese go, and signing Jake in his stead? Again, they didn't believe it would improve the team by doing so.

I supported Jake because he wears the orange and blue, not because I think Jake is all that. He won alot of games for us. I'll support Jay the same way, unless he exhibits no leadership qualities, folds in the big games, and we go thru a 3-4 year playoff drought (ala Griese).

I'm eager to see the kid play, but if you think he's not gonna have his share of rough times, your delusional. Leinhart looked great in his first game, pretty good in his 2nd game...in fact after two games his rating was over 90....his last 4-5 games he's barely above 40. Game film does that to rookie QB's.....

We're 7-4....we should be probably 9-2, but that's another argument. We can still make the playoffs, and even win the division with a bit of help. Mike is making a move he hopes will improve the team's performance. I hope he's made the right decision...either way regardless of who our QB is, I hope we win all of the 5 games we have remaining.

Northman

12-02-2006, 07:16 PM

Anubis...you do realize that staring Jay over Jake will not improve our defense, don't you? We got punked the last 2 weeks because Larry Johnson ran all over us....just like LT did. If Shaun alexander runs just as well, who our QB is won't matter.

Im quite aware of this Errand hence why im only talking about the QB position itself. Im not discussing the defense right now, im talking about getting consistency from a 11 year veteran who for some reason just isnt playing at the level he was last year. You cant blame the defense for inconsistency at the Qb position. We have a top 5 rushing attack but a 29th passing attack. Thats not going to cut it when defenses are stacking the line against the run. You have to be able to open it up and create some balance on offense.

Blueflame

12-02-2006, 08:33 PM

I recall you guys wanting Jarious Jackson to replace Gus.

Well, Mike's made the move to Cutler. Hope it works out for us. I still don't think you start a rookie when you have chance to make the playoffs, but then again Mike probably figured he had to do something to get the offense back on track. Too bad for Jake, but he played his way out of a job I guess.

Now if Mike can find a way to keep opposing RB's from running for 200 yards on us.

I'm rooting for Jay to light Seattle up this week. Like I've said...I love the Broncos, not any one player. Just win baby!

I wasn't then... and still am not... much impressed by ol' headbutt. Oh, well.... :P

Cutler was gonna have to get some playing time someday anyway because it was just a matter of time before he would have been taking over the reins... and unfortunately, Plummer set the bar so low this season that he no longer clearly gives the team the best chance of winning. When the veteran is making rookie mistakes and generally playing at a level the rookie is likely to be able to match or surpass, then the decision to make a change is not surprising.

Hopefully, the gamble pays off and the offense lays a whooping on the Seachickens. Go Broncos!!!