STG & Sassy Chat...For the Record!

[Sassy]

STG & I were chatting offline about our thoughts on the Broncos...we know we'll get torn apart. But we wanted it on the record just in case we were right ;D...Ok Maners...tear us apart...we're ready!

shelissassy: I have a Jake thread for you!
smalltowngrll: LOL
shelissassy: http://thenflforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24991
shelissassy: This is somewhat more positive...
shelissassy: Meck liked it anyway.
smalltowngrll: Nice thread.
shelissassy: Well, I really can't get a good turnout on the "fans from other teams" here.
shelissassy: lol
smalltowngrll: I just don't get why some...such as freak, think they know what is going on more than Shanny

Edit

smalltowngrll: Yeah, I'm not real thrilled about it either. But, I don't think it's all about Jake. Remember, the only one he's really playing with that isn't new is Rod. What if some of this is that he isn't used to Javon running certain routes, maybe Javon isn't running some of them right, the same way...whatever.
shelissassy: yep...I was talking to my dad about that tonight...and how many RB's has jake had since coming to Denver
smalltowngrll: Not to mention, most of his interceptions are on the road...when he throws at home, he probably has spots on the field he aims for...those things he doesn't have those on other fields
shelissassy: It sounds like Shanahan thinks that same way
shelissassy: I heard somewhere that that one was Javon's screwup
smalltowngrll: I don't know...just some of my thoughts. Yes, I wish the whole O would play better...but, obviously Shanny has no problem taking people out for practicing awful...why would he not pull Jake out if he was not happy with what he was seeing
shelissassy: and why would he call a pass play on 4th and inches if he had no confidence in Jake?
smalltowngrll: YES
shelissassy: No one has answered me on that one. I think shanahan has a game plan...for the YEAR as to what he's doing...he's not going to rest until that afc championship game is revenged...
smalltowngrll: Yes, I ageee....I was just typing the same thing
smalltowngrll: And, my take is that he's doing just enough to win these games. Just enough to get us through.
shelissassy: Shanahan wants to SHOW NOTHING to anyone in the AFC...Colts, Pitt (well they are defending champs and were supposed to be good), Chargers, KC...he has shown them nothing...they all think they can win if they stop Jake...and he doesn't do what he did pulling people and subbing like he did in the charger game...something is going on.
shelissassy: and I don't think it's a cutler thing
smalltowngrll: I agree.
shelissassy: Oh yeah and Baltimore...we've played some huge teams that will count towards playoffs
smalltowngrll: And, you know Jake...he'll take heat ...he could care less what people say.
shelissassy: yep...but think about it..THE AFC has NO sigificant game film at all from this season.
smalltowngrll: Yep...I agree. People aren't giving Shanahan the credit that he deserves. I feel like referring half the board to fireshanny.com
shelissassy: "trick" plays...I can think of two...the reverse to Javon for big yards and a TD and the pass on 4th and inches at the goal line to KJ for the TD.
shelissassy: Any more?
smalltowngrll: not many others
smalltowngrll: he hasn't revealed anything...but, I think he has more confidence in Jake than anyone else.
shelissassy: both against the teams that were suppose to be "tough"... The colts game...not sure if there were any...but the O was holding there own. Hey, we need to save/date this chat...and see if we're right!
smalltowngrll: Yeah...definitely.
shelissassy: That would rock if the WOMEN were right!
smalltowngrll: YES....we could post it to prove we really know what we are talking about! LOL
shelissassy: Or we could copy/paste it and title it "A couple of EGIBGB thoughts"
shelissassy: haha...I posted then read yours!
smalltowngrll: Yes, we could
shelissassy: STG & Sassy...For the Record...
smalltowngrll: there ya go
shelissassy: Want me to do it?
smalltowngrll: If you want to...but, we will be picked apart. I'm not in for the argument...but, I'd be glad to support it for the record. We could revisit this in January.
shelissassy: true...but if we post it now...they can't say we changed the date
smalltowngrll: yep
shelissassy: What the heck...they are all in a fighting mood anyway!
smalltowngrll: Very true...post away chica
shelissassy: Here goes then...

[minibronco]

?????

:thumbs:

[2KBack]

I like it, it was like reading an entire thread at hyperspeed

[Taco John]

Wow. You both seriously think that the rest of the AFC doesn't have any significant game film from this season?

I don't even know what to say about that...

[ludo21]

Its obvious that Shanny is holding back a bit, but to the detriment of the team?

I dont think so (altho he didnt gameplan 3 Plummer ints)

[freak6]

lmao

"Jake throws to certain spots on the field at home that aren't there on road games"...

"Yeah, it sounds like Shanahan is thinking the same thing"

BWAA HAA HAA HAAAAA

That is probably the funniest/worst BS excuse for Joke Blunder's idiotic interceptions yet.

http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/affcgfirstint.wmv
http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/affcgsecondint.wmv

For the record, I have never said I know more about football, or the Broncos than Mike Shanahan.

But Mike Shanahan can be wrong, very very wrong. Dale Carter, Daryl Gardner, Middlebrooks (I went apesht after that pick), and Brian Griese. As far as this season's decision, I submit the story of one<b> GRADY LITTLE.</b>

I'll give you credit for trying to think about football and make up more BS excuses for Joke Blunder. E for effort.

[Sassy]

Its obvious that Shanny is holding back a bit, but to the detriment of the team?

I dont think so (altho he didnt gameplan 3 Plummer ints)

The team is 7-2 so far...he's winning.

[24champ]

For the record, I have never said I know more about football, or the Broncos than Mike Shanahan.

then stop acting like it.

[ludo21]

The team is 7-2 so far...he's winning.


no arguement there, you know where i stand on this debate. ^5

[epicSocialism4tw]

Thanks, ladies. I think that you will end up being more correct than most on this board.

[smalltowngrll]

what can I say....I'm simple minded. I try not to overcomplicate things.

[watermock]

shelissassy: That would rock if the WOMEN were right!
smalltowngrll: YES....we could post it to prove we really know what we are talking about!


"Jake throws to certain spots on the field at home that aren't there on road games"...


Where do you go with that? I can't stop laughing...do recievers fall thru trap doors or something?

Do they shrink wrap the field or something? I can't stop laughing.

Next Question.

[Mile High Mojoe]

STG & I were chatting offline about our thoughts on the Broncos...we know we'll get torn apart. But we wanted it on the record just in case we were right ;D...Ok Maners...tear us apart...we're ready!

shelissassy: I have a Jake thread for you!
smalltowngrll: LOL
shelissassy: http://thenflforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24991
shelissassy: This is somewhat more positive...
shelissassy: Meck liked it anyway.
smalltowngrll: Nice thread.
shelissassy: Well, I really can't get a good turnout on the "fans from other teams" here.
shelissassy: lol
smalltowngrll: I just don't get why some...such as freak, think they know what is going on more than Shanny

Edit

smalltowngrll: Yeah, I'm not real thrilled about it either. But, I don't think it's all about Jake. Remember, the only one he's really playing with that isn't new is Rod. What if some of this is that he isn't used to Javon running certain routes, maybe Javon isn't running some of them right, the same way...whatever.
shelissassy: yep...I was talking to my dad about that tonight...and how many RB's has jake had since coming to Denver
smalltowngrll: Not to mention, most of his interceptions are on the road...when he throws at home, he probably has spots on the field he aims for...those things he doesn't have those on other fields
shelissassy: It sounds like Shanahan thinks that same way
shelissassy: I heard somewhere that that one was Javon's screwup
smalltowngrll: I don't know...just some of my thoughts. Yes, I wish the whole O would play better...but, obviously Shanny has no problem taking people out for practicing awful...why would he not pull Jake out if he was not happy with what he was seeing
shelissassy: and why would he call a pass play on 4th and inches if he had no confidence in Jake?
smalltowngrll: YES
shelissassy: No one has answered me on that one. I think shanahan has a game plan...for the YEAR as to what he's doing...he's not going to rest until that afc championship game is revenged...
smalltowngrll: Yes, I ageee....I was just typing the same thing
smalltowngrll: And, my take is that he's doing just enough to win these games. Just enough to get us through.
shelissassy: Shanahan wants to SHOW NOTHING to anyone in the AFC...Colts, Pitt (well they are defending champs and were supposed to be good), Chargers, KC...he has shown them nothing...they all think they can win if they stop Jake...and he doesn't do what he did pulling people and subbing like he did in the charger game...something is going on.
shelissassy: and I don't think it's a cutler thing
smalltowngrll: I agree.
shelissassy: Oh yeah and Baltimore...we've played some huge teams that will count towards playoffs
smalltowngrll: And, you know Jake...he'll take heat ...he could care less what people say.
shelissassy: yep...but think about it..THE AFC has NO sigificant game film at all from this season.
smalltowngrll: Yep...I agree. People aren't giving Shanahan the credit that he deserves. I feel like referring half the board to fireshanny.com
shelissassy: "trick" plays...I can think of two...the reverse to Javon for big yards and a TD and the pass on 4th and inches at the goal line to KJ for the TD.
shelissassy: Any more?
smalltowngrll: not many others
smalltowngrll: he hasn't revealed anything...but, I think he has more confidence in Jake than anyone else.
shelissassy: both against the teams that were suppose to be "tough"... The colts game...not sure if there were any...but the O was holding there own. Hey, we need to save/date this chat...and see if we're right!
smalltowngrll: Yeah...definitely.
shelissassy: That would rock if the WOMEN were right!
smalltowngrll: YES....we could post it to prove we really know what we are talking about! LOL
shelissassy: Or we could copy/paste it and title it "A couple of EGIBGB thoughts"
shelissassy: haha...I posted then read yours!
smalltowngrll: Yes, we could
shelissassy: STG & Sassy...For the Record...
smalltowngrll: there ya go
shelissassy: Want me to do it?
smalltowngrll: If you want to...but, we will be picked apart. I'm not in for the argument...but, I'd be glad to support it for the record. We could revisit this in January.
shelissassy: true...but if we post it now...they can't say we changed the date
smalltowngrll: yep
shelissassy: What the heck...they are all in a fighting mood anyway!
smalltowngrll: Very true...post away chica
shelissassy: Here goes then...

Nice, bore us all with more lame excuses please. It's amazing how everything and everybody around Jake is the reason why he's not playing well. Sounds like denial, maybe it's Jake who sucks is that a reasonable assumption or not? Shanny should come up with a game plan to hide Jake like maybe on another planet. That'd be the smartest move he could make all year.

[Crushaholic]

shelissassy: I heard somewhere that that one was Javon's screwup

You're right. It WAS Javon's screwup and I pointed it out to fellow Bronco fans when it happened. He overran his route. It was a perfectly thrown ball, but Jake thought Javon was going to stop a little to the left. The other two interceptions were bad decisions and bad throws, but the one to Javon was Walker's fault...

[watermock]

smalltowngrll: Not to mention, most of his interceptions are on the road...when he throws at home, he probably has spots on the field he aims for...those things he doesn't have those on other fields


What THINGS do you speak of? Every field is virtually identical. You think they move the hash marks or yard markers?

I'm laughing again. I am releasing the girls...they are female fans and should be treated as such. I don't know the point of of posting the chat, but I'm dont laughing at it.

I like women, but c'mon girls...I laughed at least 5 minutes.

[watermock]

You're right. It WAS Javon's screwup and I pointed it out to fellow Bronco fans when it happened. He overran his route. It was a perfectly thrown ball, but Jake thought Javon was going to stop a little to the left. The other two interceptions were bad decisions and bad throws, but the one to Javon was Walker's fault...

Show me a single post that he ran a bad pattern then.

[Crushaholic]

Show me a single post that he ran a bad pattern then.

I didn't read it on the Mane, so I can't produce anybody else that shares this observation. I noticed it while watching the game.

[freak6]

It's another BS excuse. The ball should have been in air before he made his break to the post. Joke waited so long, Javon had already gone through to the safeties zone, but Joke actually fkd up twice on the throw but not only blowing the timing on the pass completely, he also threw the ball 4 yards behind where Javon was.

On a timing pass where the QB is late and screws it up, the only option is to look elsewhere, throw it away, or run for it.

KNOWLEDGE

[DivineLegion]

You guys think that Jake is bad at misreading routs and trowing off target to open recivers wait until you throw an unexpierenced Rookie QB in there who dosent know the playbook and hasent been practicing with the Starting WRs...You will see alot of arrant passes and misreads leading to turnovers. On top of that he will have to adjust to the game speed and reading complex Defenses at this level something he has yet to face in his Football life.

Marty waited two years to throw Phillip in the fire and Phillip faced teams like Florida State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Maryland, and Virginia every year...and thats a list leaving out alot of other realy good teams he faced in college before he was drafted. Phillip was known for his poise and leadership in college not just his athletic ability and that is what has allowed him sucsess in the NFL. You guys better just chill out on Jay Cutler because he is going to take atleast another year to learn the playbook and maybe a year after that to adjust to the NFL. You guys are calling for him now thinking he can just step up and make all of the plays but what your failing to realize is if Shanny thought the same thing Jay would be in there right now.

[freak6]

You guys think that Jake is bad at misreading routs and trowing off target to open recivers wait until you throw an unexpierenced Rookie QB in there who dosent know the playbook and hasent been practicing with the Starting WRs...You will see alot of arrant passes and misreads leading to turnovers. On top of that he will have to adjust to the game speed and reading complex Defenses at this level something he has yet to face in his Football life.

He'll know the playbook, and he shredded 1st string Ds with our 2nd teamers. I'll give you the adjustment to the speed and complex defenses.

But since Joke Blunder already makes all the aforementioned mistakes, I'll take Cutler because he has vastly better tools, and once he gets used to the game speed, he'll flourish.

You act like our playbook is so complicated. We ran the same play 5 times on one drive vs Oakland. Jay can handle that!!! lol.

[Taco John]

I wonder if Marty has any other coaching tips for Mike he could share...

[2KBack]

I wonder if Marty has any other coaching tips for Mike he could share...

he's managed to get some good performances out of Denver QB's over the years.

[watermock]

You guys think that Jake is bad at misreading routs and trowing off target to open recivers wait until you throw an unexpierenced Rookie QB in there who dosent know the playbook and hasent been practicing with the Starting WRs...You will see alot of arrant passes and misreads leading to turnovers. On top of that he will have to adjust to the game speed and reading complex Defenses at this level something he has yet to face in his Football life.

Marty waited two years to throw Phillip in the fire and Phillip faced teams like Florida State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Maryland, and Virginia every year...and thats a list leaving out alot of other realy good teams he faced in college before he was drafted. Phillip was known for his poise and leadership in college not just his athletic ability and that is what has allowed him sucsess in the NFL. You guys better just chill out on Jay Cutler because he is going to take atleast another year to learn the playbook and maybe a year after that to adjust to the NFL. You guys are calling for him now thinking he can just step up and make all of the plays but what your failing to realize is if Shanny thought the same thing Jay would be in there right now.

This is just comical

[DivineLegion]

He'll know the playbook, and he shredded 1st string Ds with our 2nd teamers. I'll give you the adjustment to the speed and complex defenses.

But since Joke Blunder already makes all the aforementioned mistakes, I'll take Cutler because he has vastly better tools, and once he gets used to the game speed, he'll flourish.

You act like our playbook is so complicated. We ran the same play 5 times on one drive vs Oakland. Jay can handle that!!! lol.

Ok he handled complex Ds in the Preseason...Nice try
How long do you think it will take him to get used to the game speed...thats how many loses we cant afford...
Our play book is complicated and to think its not is just reaching...

[DivineLegion]

I wonder if Marty has any other coaching tips for Mike he could share...

Im not saying Marty is anywhere the Coach that Shanahan is im just sayin he waited for his QB and it worked for him...

I mean come on dont you think if Shanahan thought Cutler would be winning games for us he would be starting by now obviously the kid is not ready and you Snake haters need to chill out. If Shanahan thought Cutler could out perform Jake and handle the offense better he would be calling the plays, but guess what hes not. Look at Jakes play and think the inconseavable, worse...thats obviously the level Shanahan thinks Jay would perform or he would be leading this team.

[Northman]

So much for being objective and in the " middle crowd ". lmao

[gunns]

You guys think that Jake is bad at misreading routs and trowing off target to open recivers wait until you throw an unexpierenced Rookie QB in there who dosent know the playbook and hasent been practicing with the Starting WRs...You will see alot of arrant passes and misreads leading to turnovers. On top of that he will have to adjust to the game speed and reading complex Defenses at this level something he has yet to face in his Football life.

Marty waited two years to throw Phillip in the fire and Phillip faced teams like Florida State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, Maryland, and Virginia every year...and thats a list leaving out alot of other realy good teams he faced in college before he was drafted. Phillip was known for his poise and leadership in college not just his athletic ability and that is what has allowed him sucsess in the NFL. You guys better just chill out on Jay Cutler because he is going to take atleast another year to learn the playbook and maybe a year after that to adjust to the NFL. You guys are calling for him now thinking he can just step up and make all of the plays but what your failing to realize is if Shanny thought the same thing Jay would be in there right now.

I have no delusions that if Cutler were put in that his play would take us to the SB or even a win. I would just love to be far enough ahead to see the kid play.

My disappointment in Jake is just that, major disappointment and frustration. He's a 10 year veteran who is in his 4th year here and our offense is the worse it's been and he's a big part of that, being the leader and all. Shanahan, like a lot of us I'm sure, feels that a vet gives us a better chance to win, but has it hamstringed him to putting in a more conservative game planning because of Jakes inability to handle pressure?

I love the scramble to say Walker was off on one route and suddenly Jake is vindicated? No he's not. Besides the INT's he's had 4 fumbles. Every week we have new excuses, the O line, the WR's not doing their job, the defense not stopping the opponent and all of this is valid at times. But like a child who attempts to blame someone else when HE'S done something wrong, if you allow that excuse they never learn to correct their own mistakes.

[Kaylore]

I'm sorry but I don't get what the point in posting this was. Your excuses for Jake don't add up with each other. If it's one thing it can't be another.

For example, Let's assume you are right about the play calling being simplified on purpose to save the "good stuff" for the playoffs. (I will show this isn't the case in a moment.) If it's so simple, why is Jake still throwing interceptions? I mean simplicity means easy reads, right? Maybe he's woefully inaccurate?

Here we are, 9 weeks into the season and these "new" players are still struggling to get this "simplified" offense? Is our whole team a bunch of morons and poor Jake is just practicing with some mentally disabled players every week?

If it is so simple, why is Jake still playing like garbage? Shouldn't a simpler offensive mean fewer mistakes? If he's throwing four interceptions a game now, how will increasing the complexity of the offense in the playoffs not further befuddle him?

Want to watch simple offensive schemes? Go watch the pre-season games. Cutler seemed to have no trouble hooking up with his second-team squad with a pretty simple offense, and yet Plummer struggled even then. I wonder why our best players had trouble putting it all together when our backups seemed to be doing ok? Maybe they're just members of Mensa.

As for "saving plays" that's just rubbish. You ask any defensive coordinator in this league who has ever played Shanahan, they all tell you the same thing: That you cannot bother to look at any previous game tape because Shanahan never does the same thing every game. He changes his packages, plays and situation calls each game to best attack the favorable matchups in the defenses he faces.

In fact they were interviewing Rob Ryan and he said you can't even use the tape from the time they played you earlier in the same season because he comes at you with something different every time.

So this whole "saving plays" stuff is total bunk. If he changes the plays every week anyway, hiding something you won't do again anyway is pointless.

Even if it was true, how would you prove it? Do you have the wherewithal to break down every offense play/pattern of the regular season and then compare it the post season and identify the variances in the offensive complexity between now and then? I don't think anyone here could do that even if they had the time...maybe SoCal.

My point is posting this conversation you guys had because I assume you wanted to come back to it and show everyone you were right is silly if you can't even prove you were right to begin with. I mean already the theory doesn't make sense. Frankly it just looks like you guys have your heads in the sand and rather than admit Jake is playing poorly, you're imagining up conspiracy theories that explain away his bad play as something calculated.

[fontaine]

I mean already the theory doesn't make sense. Frankly it just looks like you guys have your heads in the sand and rather than admit Jake is playing poorly, you're imagining up conspiracy theories that explain away his bad play as something calculated.

That's because conspiracy theories is all they have to go by.

I'd like ya'll to meet Andrew Walter who's being sacked at an incredible rate. He's already been sacked 40 times this season, his OL is in shambles.

That's one of the reasons why he's almost last in every QB stat. You know a "real" reason than the ones you just pulled out of your a$$.

Is there a real reason why Plummer has been almost as bad as Walter?

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Sassy and STG are absolutely correct about one thing - Shanahan knows more about football and the players on the team than everyone on this board combined. If he felt Cutler would give the Broncs a better chance to win this year, Cutler would be on the field.

In Shanny We Trust.

[dnvrbrncos]

... If he felt Cutler would give the Broncs a better chance to win this year, Cutler would be on the field.

That's true. I'm certain that he wouldn't even stop to consider the effect on team chemistry. As head coach, he would only be concerned with who's better.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

That's true. I'm certain that he wouldn't even stop to consider the effect on team chemistry. As head coach, he would only be concerned with who's better.

Did you pick your sig specifically for anyone on this board ;D

[smalltowngrll]

Sassy and STG are absolutely correct about one thing - Shanahan knows more about football and the players on the team than everyone on this board combined. If he felt Cutler would give the Broncs a better chance to win this year, Cutler would be on the field.

In Shanny We Trust.

Finally, someone who understands the root of the conversation. Yes, everything else is speculation as we are not privvy to what goes on behind closed doors and the play book. The truth be told, Shanny is the coach and HE has all of the facts. HE has chosen that our QB is Plummer for a REASON! The rest of you who call for Cutler undermine and question whether he is making good coaching choices based on what you see not what you know!

The point of the whole discussion was to say that Shanahan is the coach and he is the one we trust.

I support Shanny's decision in our QB. If he finds another solution that's better than Plummer, then I'll support that. Fact is, He's a damn good coach and has a heck of a lot more experienced at this than ANY of you on this board....HANDS DOWN!!!

[freak6]

Finally, someone who understands the root of the conversation. Yes, everything else is speculation as we are not privvy to what goes on behind bla blaa blaaa

The truth be told, Shanny is the coach and HE has all of the facts. HE has chosen that our QB is Plummer blaa blaa blaa,

I support Shanny's decision in our QB. If he finds another solution that's better than Plummer, blaa blaa blaaa

Grady Little

<img src="http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2004-10/14732155.jpg">

[24champ]

Grady Little

<img src="http://www.newsday.com/media/photo/2004-10/14732155.jpg">

You comparing Grady Little to Mike Shanahan???

[Mediator12]

Sassy and STG are absolutely correct about one thing - Shanahan knows more about football and the players on the team than everyone on this board combined. If he felt Cutler would give the Broncs a better chance to win this year, Cutler would be on the field.

In Shanny We Trust.

This is true to a point Big Guy. Shanahan does know more about football than anyone here. Period.

Cutler is a wildcard at this point, and Plummer is still the guy to the VET's on this team. Shanahan just issued one hell of a message to the VETs by Benching Foster and Mike Bell last week. The Message is that no one is above being replaced if you do not play better than the guy behind you in practice and in games. If you think that message was somehow not applicable to Plummer, then so be it. However, there is no question he is on the Hot seat along with everyone else.

This is the infamous "shot over the Bow" to motivate some people who think they have Jobs locked up halfway into the season and that Shanahan would not mess with the chemistry. As Lynch said, "He is serious about sending a message that the best guys are going to play." Jake is right in the line of fire here, too. It does not mean he is going to be replaced right now or the rest of the season. It just means when it happens, whether this year or next, that it is going to be for real and Shanahan believes Cutler is ready to replace Jake.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

This is true to a point Big Guy. Shanahan does know more about football than anyone here. Period.

Cutler is a wildcard at this point, and Plummer is still the guy to the VET's on this team. Shanahan just issued one hell of a message to the VETs by Benching Foster and Mike Bell last week. The Message is that no one is above being replaced if you do not play better than the guy behind you in practice and in games. If you think that message was somehow not applicable to Plummer, then so be it. However, there is no question he is on the Hot seat along with everyone else.

This is the infamous "shot over the Bow" to motivate some people who think they have Jobs locked up halfway into the season and that Shanahan would not mess with the chemistry. As Lynch said, "He is serious about sending a message that the best guys are going to play." Jake is right in the line of fire here, too. It does not mean he is going to be replaced right now or the rest of the season. It just means when it happens, whether this year or next, that it is going to be for real and Shanahan believes Cutler is ready to replace Jake.

We don't disagree Med. If and when Shanahan feels Cutler gives the Broncos a better chance to win, he will make the move. I'll support the Broncos regardless of who is playing QB

[Play2win]

It IS about Jake. What it all boils down to is Jake can't hit the broad side of a barn.

[Play2win]

Does anyone think all the roster shuffling last week was made so a QB switch doesn't seem so abrupt?

[2KBack]

This is true to a point Big Guy. Shanahan does know more about football than anyone here. Period.

Cutler is a wildcard at this point, and Plummer is still the guy to the VET's on this team. Shanahan just issued one hell of a message to the VETs by Benching Foster and Mike Bell last week. The Message is that no one is above being replaced if you do not play better than the guy behind you in practice and in games. If you think that message was somehow not applicable to Plummer, then so be it. However, there is no question he is on the Hot seat along with everyone else.

This is the infamous "shot over the Bow" to motivate some people who think they have Jobs locked up halfway into the season and that Shanahan would not mess with the chemistry. As Lynch said, "He is serious about sending a message that the best guys are going to play." Jake is right in the line of fire here, too. It does not mean he is going to be replaced right now or the rest of the season. It just means when it happens, whether this year or next, that it is going to be for real and Shanahan believes Cutler is ready to replace Jake.

Right after Jakes 2 best games of the season seems like an odd time to pull something like that, if true.

[Mediator12]

Does anyone think all the roster shuffling last week was made so a QB switch doesn't seem so abrupt?

It is certainly possible. He was preparing the team for the second half of the season. He definitely delivered motivation for them, by moving some guys down. Scheffler did not dress, but he called him a Pro-Bowl talented TE. Foster was demoted, but Shanahan referred to him as possessing rare ability. Talent does not and never has = performance. That is why coaches grade film from games and practice.

To all the people who think Shanahan is afraid to make changes to a Winning team since they are winning by God, he just provided proof that winning is not a gaurantee that you play next week. Performance is the only thing that matters. And, if he thinks the guy behind you has a chance to do better than you, then you can have a seat.

[Clockwork Orange]

I like women

Who are you trying to kid?

[Mediator12]

Right after Jakes 2 best games of the season seems like an odd time to pull something like that, if true.

It's not directed specifically at Jake. However, he is not excluded from the message either. He is part of the everyone, just like Foster, Mike Bell, and Scheffler.

[2KBack]

It's not directed specifically at Jake. However, he is not excluded from the message either. He is part of the everyone, just like Foster, Mike Bell, and Scheffler.

Okay, so a message to an entire struggling unit, I can buy that. A lot of pschology in the coaching this year. Am I forgetting? I don't remember Shanny being so blatant with his messages to the team.

[Mediator12]

Okay, so a message to an entire struggling unit, I can buy that. A lot of pschology in the coaching this year. Am I forgetting? I don't remember Shanny being so blatant with his messages to the team.

Not just the offense 2KBack. The whole team.

Contrary to popular belief around here, the Broncos have not played that well this year. They certainly have earned their 7-2 record, but they could easily be 5-4 or 9-0 if they played a little different on some big plays.

To the casual fan, the record is everything. To head coaches, it is not as important as progressively getting better throughout the season while still winning. It is too hard of a season to not get better every week and make less mental errors each time out. The team has to continue to strive for perfection each week, while knowing it is always out of their reach.

When they just are going through the motions, like the Raiders, the coach has to bring them back in line. In the past, Shanahan has delegated this to the team leaders like Rod, Nalen, Al, and Lynch. He has them do the dirty work for him. After the last three years of doing that, he decided to "get medieval on their asses." It was time Shanahan made a public display of his authority to shake up the same old, same old.

Unfortunately, he did not consult with me before doing this. I could have helped him with some real psychological motivators ;D

This is what I would have done (SARCASM ALERT):

1. First of all, I would have brought in Griese's dog and told Plummer that he was going to have to take care of him unless he got his head out of his ass.

2. Second, I would have removed Rod Smith's nameplate from his locker, changed the spelling to Smythe just to see if he was really checking.

3. Third, I would have required that the OL conduct interviews every day until they started playing up to par.

4. Fourth, I would have deactivated all the former Brown's DL and started all the scrubs from the Practice squad. Who knows, maybe Corey Jackson is still available? Wait, he was a Browns acquisition!

5. Fifth, I would have moved DJ back to Will, Al Wilson to Sam, and started Nate Webster at Mike just to shut Socal up for one game.

6. Sixth, Start Cox, Paymah, and Abdullah over Lynch, Darrent and Ferguson and Have Bailey and Paymah play Press man Coverage all day long.

7. Seventh, Bench Larry Coyer and took over all the Defensive playcalls so I could get bitched at the next week giving up 24 points after three TO's in the red zone. Miraculously, everyone on the board is calling for the old zone scheme that worked so well to this point. Why the hell did that new guy change everything that was working? I mean we were winning with that scheme! BTW, the Broncos lose 24-17.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=Mediator12;1356929]
5. Fifth, I would have moved DJ back to Will, Al Wilson to Sam, and started Nate Webster at Mike just to shut Socal up for one game.

QUOTE]

Hilarious!

[broncosteven]

STG & I were chatting offline about our thoughts on the Broncos...we know we'll get torn apart. But we wanted it on the record just in case we were right ;D...Ok Maners...tear us apart...we're ready!

Edit

smalltowngrll: Yeah, I'm not real thrilled about it either. But, I don't think it's all about Jake. Remember, the only one he's really playing with that isn't new is Rod. What if some of this is that he isn't used to Javon running certain routes, maybe Javon isn't running some of them right, the same way...whatever.
shelissassy: yep...I was talking to my dad about that tonight...and how many RB's has jake had since coming to Denver
smalltowngrll: Not to mention, most of his interceptions are on the road...when he throws at home, he probably has spots on the field he aims for...those things he doesn't have those on other fields
shelissassy: It sounds like Shanahan thinks that same way
shelissassy: I heard somewhere that that one was Javon's screwup


I think Jake has trouble on the road throwing to guys in white jerseys.

If he stops aiming for spots on the field & for his own players numbers he might be better off.

Funny thread though.

[Atlas]

I can't believe STG didn't mention me in the conversation!!

[milehimike]

Nice, bore us all with more lame excuses please. It's amazing how everything and everybody around Jake is the reason why he's not playing well. Sounds like denial, maybe it's Jake who sucks is that a reasonable assumption or not? Shanny should come up with a game plan to hide Jake like maybe on another planet. That'd be the smartest move he could make all year. Just enjoy the team and the and the rest of the games. Or give up on the team and don't enjoy the games. Don't be a hater, and by that I mean, back the team, that includes Jake. Or don't back the team and bitch about one player, I say you are either for the broncos or not, the broncos have a 52 man team. SORRY!!! I was starting to rant & vent, my bad.;D :thanku:

[Tredici]

Number 16.

Sibyl

He's just stuffed full of Jakes.

Everybody posts about the one they like the best or dislike the most...

[DivineLegion]

I have no delusions that if Cutler were put in that his play would take us to the SB or even a win. I would just love to be far enough ahead to see the kid play.

My disappointment in Jake is just that, major disappointment and frustration. He's a 10 year veteran who is in his 4th year here and our offense is the worse it's been and he's a big part of that, being the leader and all. Shanahan, like a lot of us I'm sure, feels that a vet gives us a better chance to win, but has it hamstringed him to putting in a more conservative game planning because of Jakes inability to handle pressure?

I love the scramble to say Walker was off on one route and suddenly Jake is vindicated? No he's not. Besides the INT's he's had 4 fumbles. Every week we have new excuses, the O line, the WR's not doing their job, the defense not stopping the opponent and all of this is valid at times. But like a child who attempts to blame someone else when HE'S done something wrong, if you allow that excuse they never learn to correct their own mistakes.

Dont get me wrong I absolutly hate the way Jake is playing I was ready to see Cutler vs the Faid its the sheer fact that week in week out Shanny is sticking to Jake that tells me Cutler is not ready and we should just support Jake while hes leading this team.

[broncosteven]

Number 16.

Sibyl

He's just stuffed full of Jakes.

Everybody posts about the one they like the best or dislike the most...

I like Home-no-leash-Jake who can roll right & throw a 40+ yard strike to Kircus across the field/body without an INT.

I dislike Road-short-leash-jake who's 1st pocket pass is behind Javon for an INT giving the D a short field to defend.

[Kaylore]

You ladies wanted to go on the record. Considering the circumstances and how insistent you both were to post this thread I'm going to go ahead and be a jerk and bump this. Mean? Yes. Funny? Yes.

[Sassy]

Our point was it's not ALL JAKE...we'll see what happens.

[Kaylore]

Our point was it's not ALL JAKE...we'll see what happens.

Ok, but it was enough of his fault to get benched. You also claimed that Shanahan always knows best and he's now starting Cutler. Does he still know best?

[Broncoman13]

LMAO... Khan's got em by the hair now!!!

[smalltowngrll]

Obviously he knows best! And I've always maintained that I'd support his decisions! I still like Plummer no matter what. So does that make me a Cutler hater?

LOL at the ego of some men! You all crack me up! Obviously you have a point to prove?

And, yes, we shall see how it all plays out. I'm first and foremost a Broncos fan!

[Sassy]

Ok, but it was enough of his fault to get benched. You also claimed that Shanahan always knows best and he's now starting Cutler. Does he still know best?

I said I would be behind whoever Mike started. (I didn't necessarily say I agreed with him starting him in the middle of the season. I still don't. ) I did say I would cheer for WHOEVER the starting QB is...why wouldn't I. I want the Broncos to win...

LOL! I wrote this before I read STG's post! Ha!

[Kaylore]

Obviously he knows best! And I've always maintained that I'd support his decisions! I still like Plummer no matter what. So does that make me a Cutler hater?

LOL at the ego of some men! You all crack me up! Obviously you have a point to prove?

And, yes, we shall see how it all plays out. I'm first and foremost a Broncos fan!
;D Well first of all I'm kind of messing with you guys, but let's be honest here: I didn't start this thread!

I never accused anyone of being a Cutler hater (except Alec). And this has nothing to do with my ego (though it is pretty big ;D). You guys felt confident enough to make a special thread just for your conversation so that you could go "on record" for all to see.

Well fair is fair, ladies. I think if someone here is going to do that, then I expect you to stand by that right or wrong...and right now it looks like a big fat wrongo. :curtsey:

[smalltowngrll]

Here you have it....

I was obviously wrong in my reasoning for why Shanny hadn't pulled Jake out.

Maybe part of it was sheer hope that somehow this team would get their act together and Plummer would play to the level that WE ALL know that he is capeable of. And part of it was out of the mere fact that I tend to take sides with someone that is being thrown under the bus as so many of the fans have done. Right or wrong, that's one reason why I supported Plummer until Shanny said otherwise!

Kaylore, I have a lot of respect for your opinions on football, and I mostly knew that you were just messing. No worries and no hard feelings. I've always been able to take whatever I could dish...and who's not to say that I wouldn't have gone and drudged up your "I'm calling it now" thread if things had turned out differently. Someone had to be right, someone had to be wrong..but, it doesn't mean that I won't support Cutler as our QB.

[Sassy]

Lincicome: All things must pass; now, it's Cutler's turn
Evan Semon © News

Jay Cutler finds himself in an awkward transition period as the Broncos prepare for him to assume the role of starting quarterback. He is being asked to save a season and immediately justify the judgment of coach Mike Shanahan.STORY TOOLS
Email this story | Print POLL
How far can Jay Cutler take the Broncos this season?
(1) They'll finish better than .500 but miss the playoffs

23.3 % (690)
(2) They'll get eliminated in the wild-card round

40.5 % (1197)
(3) Deep into the playoffs

23.5 % (696)
(4) All the way to the Super Bowl

12.6 % (373)
Total: 2956

Bernie Lincicome
email | bioNovember 26, 2006

Nothing less than victory will be acceptable from Jay Cutler, otherwise, why bother? The Broncos could lose with Wolf Blitzer at quarterback, not to compare Jake Plummer to an empty suit.
Close will not be good enough. Mere promise will not be acceptable. Hints will not be adequate.

Cutler cannot just be the quarterback of tomorrow, he must be the quarterback of this Sunday and of the next one and the next one.

The learning curve is a sword, and Cutler is on the sharp side.

No NFL quarterback ever gets to start with sympathy on his side, not from fans, not from the other team and never from the coach who is already annoyed that he has been forced to make this decision, but this is particularly unfair to Cutler, who must be great from the start and only get better.

To be young and unfailed is a wonderful thing, which is to say that this may be as good as it gets for Cutler, the fresh prince of Dove Valley, summer soldier and clipboard holder.

But the transition could have been much more ideal than it is. An injury to Plummer would be better than this. At least for Cutler. He would then not be coming to the rescue but to the breach, asked only to do what he could, not to do everything he must.

The way it is, without the least indication that he can, Cutler is asked to save a season and to justify immediately the judgment of his coach. Usually rookie quarterbacks who play soon play for awful teams, teams that need more than a quarterback.

While this Broncos team could use a few more good men, one who can run the ball, one who can rush the passer, one who can return kicks and several who can tackle in the open field, it is a team of greater ambition than just making do.

The Broncos still could take control of the division, get a first- round bye and move further than the deposed quarterback took them last season.

This happens only if Cutler can do more than anyone expected him to do so early.

There is still, I suppose, Plummer to fall back on, which, to reuse an old Thurber line about having journalism to fall back on, that's like falling back on an open kit of carpenter's tools.

Plummer seemed to indicate, anticipating losing his job, that he will be the good soldier and neither pout nor undermine the Broncos.

But the argument is, if Cutler is a complete bust, or even no better than Plummer, the Broncos are no worse off than they are now. But they are.

That conclusion will only be reached after another loss or maybe two, in which case, the Broncos will be finished and Cutler will then have the space he should already have, to grow and make mistakes.

Cutler is not only going to have to hit the ground running, but hit it several lengths ahead.

And as anxious as he is to play, Cutler must take the locker room with him. The Broncos have succeeded under Plummer, if not lately. Plummer is a popular figure with his teammates.

To earn that same admiration and confidence, Cutler may not tiptoe into tomorrow. He will have to race out ahead and wave his teammates to come on after him.

In the meantime, we have Cutler - eager, confident, clear of eye and firm of purpose, the world ahead free of shadows and doubt. His face is fresh enough to shame spring.

There was a time, no doubt, when Plummer looked the same, before he had to dress himself. Maybe not.

In a more perfect world than the NFL, Cutler turns into Ben Roethlisberger, when chances are much greater that he will turn into some other kind of burger.

And that's even provided that Cutler is any good at this. Public evidence is thin, consisting of mostly August, in costumed rehearsals against many players since returned to civilian life. There was Vanderbilt, of course, and before that good old Heritage Hills High near Santa Claus, Ind., but otherwise, we chiefly have Mike Shanahan's word that the boy can play.

You wince at how young Cutler is. When Cutler has done this a few more times, say as many times as Brian Griese did, he will not be able to look at Plummer without associating his career with Plummer's failure.

It's not as if, in clear and open competition - Shanahan's favorite scenario - Cutler has beaten out Plummer and is clearly the best man for the job.

No, he is simply the next man for the job.



lincicomeb@RockyMountainNews.com

[Kaylore]

it doesn't mean that I won't support Cutler as our QB.

That was never in doubt. Just ribbing you girls. I wouldn't have said anything if you ladies hadn't made a special post about it. :~ohyah!:

[Barry Ramey]

Good grief. I see this crap on so many forums. Someone likes this player, which to some, means you have to hate this other player and this idiotic routine going back and forth. This stupidness has gone on for a couple months now. You like Plummer, so you must hate Cutler or the other way around. Dumb.

Why does it bother people that some like Plummer? Why does it bother people that some think this team has other issues other than QB, which Shanahan even acknowledged during his press conference?

It gets to the point where people stop rooting for this team to win and instead just root for a player or even against a player. I've been a Bronco fan for 30 years. I really couldn't care less who is at QB as long as the team wins.

Cutler is the starter and I support him and I hope Shanahan does all he can to help him achieve. With the way this team has gone through QB's after Elway, I am losing confidence in Shanahan's judgment in these matters. But does that mean I want the team to lose? Of course not. But for the last few weeks especially, I'm not so sure some didn't want this team to lose games just so they could get a player they like in there. I hope I never become a "fan" like that.

[labronx]

Thanks, ladies. I think that you will end up being more correct than most on this board.

LOL:afro:

[Kaylore]

LOL:afro:

Angryllama has built a solid reputation around these parts on being wrong.

[labronx]

Sassy and STG are absolutely correct about one thing - Shanahan knows more about football and the players on the team than everyone on this board combined. If he felt Cutler would give the Broncs a better chance to win this year, Cutler would be on the field.

In Shanny We Trust.

This is what I love about this board and the whole concept of discussion boards.

The poor guy had months to figure it out and just kept coming with this quote, and I'll admit it, it would KINDA get on my nerves. Such a weak response.

"Shanahan knows more about football and the players on the team than everyone on this board combined. If he felt Cutler would give the Broncs a better chance to win this year, Cutler would be on the field."

Seems like you were right all along. ;D

[labronx]

Not just the offense 2KBack. The whole team.

Contrary to popular belief around here, the Broncos have not played that well this year. They certainly have earned their 7-2 record, but they could easily be 5-4 or 9-0 if they played a little different on some big plays.

To the casual fan, the record is everything. To head coaches, it is not as important as progressively getting better throughout the season while still winning. It is too hard of a season to not get better every week and make less mental errors each time out. The team has to continue to strive for perfection each week, while knowing it is always out of their reach.



....and this ladies and gentlemen...is what separates the casual poster with the really knowledgeable ones.

Man, I really need to go do something else ;D

Good job Med as always

[broncogary]

This is what I love about this board and the whole concept of discussion boards.

The poor guy had months to figure it out and just kept coming with this quote, and I'll admit it, it would KINDA get on my nerves. Such a weak response.

"Shanahan knows more about football and the players on the team than everyone on this board combined. If he felt Cutler would give the Broncs a better chance to win this year, Cutler would be on the field."

Seems like you were right all along. ;D

Also the part about, "They are getting paid so they know more than you."

Well, some of us are due some back pay. :approve: