View Full Version : This article made me sick...
Taco John
11-03-2006, 10:18 PM
I don't drop in here much, but I read this article tonight, and it made me absolutely sick... The compelling stuff is the quotes on pages 2 and 3 from the gliteratti of the neo-conserbative movement.
http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2006/12/neocons200612
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-03-2006, 10:59 PM
Wow.
Those are some pretty damning statements by some of the central architects of and cheerleaders for the invasion of Iraq.
I wonder how SteveCoulter13 and the rest of the Mane's GeeDubya apologists will try to spin this?
Pretty hard to write these interviews off as "far left propaganda" this time - although I'm sure angrydrama, Barry Ramey, DBruleU, ClevelandBronco, et al, will attempt to do just that.
SteveTensi13
11-03-2006, 11:38 PM
Vanity Fair? My God, a left leaning womens magazine? I'd put more creedence into this article if it came from the Weekly Standard. Me thinks these peoples statements were taken out of context, spliced or outright made up! I'll believe it when I see a video of them making these statements.
I've been burnt too many times by the NY Times, Reuters, CBS news, etc. to believe anything the left puts in print.
ClevelandBronco
11-04-2006, 12:20 AM
Eliot Cohen, director of the strategic-studies program at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies and member of the Defense Policy Board: "I wouldn't be surprised if what we end up drifting toward is some sort of withdrawal on some sort of timetable and leaving the place in a pretty ghastly mess.… I do think it's going to end up encouraging various strands of Islamism, both Shia and Sunni, and probably will bring de-stabilization of some regimes of a more traditional kind, which already have their problems.… The best news is that the United States remains a healthy, vibrant, vigorous society. So in a real pinch, we can still pull ourselves together. Unfortunately, it will probably take another big hit. And a very different quality of leadership. Maybe we'll get it."
I'm just going to chew on all those quotes for a while, but that last one was particularly well chosen in its support of the structure of the piece.
ClevelandBronco
11-04-2006, 12:25 AM
Vanity Fair? My God, a left leaning womens magazine?
A few decades ago, yes, but it's a metrosexual kind of pub these days.
Think: Urbans (especially New White Urbans) with an economic upside.
Taco John
11-04-2006, 12:44 AM
Vanity Fair? My God, a left leaning womens magazine? I'd put more creedence into this article if it came from the Weekly Standard. Me thinks these peoples statements were taken out of context, spliced or outright made up! I'll believe it when I see a video of them making these statements.
I've been burnt too many times by the NY Times, Reuters, CBS news, etc. to believe anything the left puts in print.
Wow. It's no wonder I don't come to this forum. I can't believe that this kind of mindless cynicism exists. I don't mean to offend, Steve. But what you said comes across as nothing more than ideological clap trap tantamount to burying your head in the sand.
Wake up brother. There are real problems and real consequences for America here. Bush isn't going to be remembered in the fond way that Reagan is, and it's not going to be "the left" who does the most damage. The article is a sledgehammer to Bush's face from the people who essentially put him in office through efforts they started in the early 90's. Dismissing it simply because the quotes were collected by a writer who is getting paid by the Vanity Fair hardly diminishes the impact of the sentiments of those who gave the statements. These statements shouldn't be a suprise to anyone who's paid attention to the neo-con wing of politics. They've been very vocal about their displeasure with the execution of their grand vision for years now. This is just the first time these sentiments were gathered in one place.
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-04-2006, 03:04 AM
Dismissing it simply because the quotes were collected by a writer who is getting paid by the Vanity Fair hardly diminishes the impact of the sentiments of those who gave the statements.
Exactly.
As always, SteveCoulter13 couldn't deny the message, hence, his only recourse was to attack the messenger. This tactic is the only one apologists for this failed regime have left at this stage of the game.
Well old george is left twisting on the vine. He just wasn't smart enough for the job. What a colossal mistake this presidency has been and the worst is yet to come.
Spider
11-04-2006, 06:33 AM
you think Steve is bad , Read,Barrey sometime ........That bastard makes Steve look smart .............
Rohirrim
11-04-2006, 07:24 AM
Michael Ledeen, American Enterprise Institute freedom scholar: "Ask yourself who the most powerful people in the White House are. They are women who are in love with the president: Laura [Bush], Condi, Harriet Miers, and Karen Hughes."
----------------
Kenneth Adelman: "The most dispiriting and awful moment of the whole administration was the day that Bush gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to [former C.I.A. director] George Tenet, General Tommy Franks, and [Coalition Provisional Authority chief] Jerry [Paul] Bremer—three of the most incompetent people who've ever served in such key spots. And they get the highest civilian honor a president can bestow on anyone! That was the day I checked out of this administration. It was then I thought, There's no seriousness here, these are not serious people. If he had been serious, the president would have realized that those three are each directly responsible for the disaster of Iraq."
Holy smokes!
Barry Ramey
11-04-2006, 07:26 AM
Amazing how lefties throw out "cynicism" and "attacking the messenger" yet if you look at their posts when someone posts from a source they don't like, we really get great debate don't we. They never, ever question the source or attack the poster if something is posted they don't like and doesn't jive with their opinions. No, no hypocrisy going on around here. These forums are always good for a laugh at least :rofl:
Barry Ramey
11-04-2006, 07:28 AM
Yep, great debating and sharing of ideas going on here. Can't even spell, but show your vast intelligence, you're very impressive Ha!
you think Steve is bad , Read,Barrey sometime ........That bastard makes Steve look smart .............
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
11-04-2006, 07:31 AM
Amazing how lefties throw out "cynicism" and "attacking the messenger" yet if you look at their posts when someone posts from a source they don't like, we really get great debate don't we. They never, ever question the source or attack the poster if something is posted they don't like and doesn't jive with their opinions. No, no hypocrisy going on around here. These forums are always good for a laugh at least :rofl:
But Einstein:
In this instance, the sources are the very same neocons who planned Dim Son's ill-advised, ill-fated invasion/occupation of Iraq.
Their comments just happened to be published in a mag you dislike.
Why is it so hard for you to make this relatively simple distinction?
-Slap-
11-04-2006, 07:46 AM
Wake up brother. There are real problems and real consequences for America here. Bush isn't going to be remembered in the fond way that Reagan is, and it's not going to be "the left" who does the most damage.
Ironically, bungling interference by the Reagan administration is what caused many of the long term problems in that region today. We were so happy every teenage boy in Iran and Iraq were killing each other, we made sure they had the means and know-how to get the job done right. Unfortunately, once they ran out of teenage boys, all that hardware and knowledge was still laying around.
Rohirrim
11-04-2006, 07:52 AM
I wonder if we will ever follow George Washington's advice? It's been more than two hundred years, and we haven't followed it yet.
Atlas
11-04-2006, 08:19 AM
expect to encounter disappointment. What I find instead is despair, and fury at the incompetence of the Bush administration the neoconservatives once saw as their brightest hope.
"I believe demolishing Hussein's military power and liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk." Now he says, "I just presumed that what I considered to be the most competent national-security team since Truman was indeed going to be competent. They turned out to be among the most incompetent teams in the post-war era. Not only did each of them, individually, have enormous flaws, but together they were deadly, dysfunctional."
: 'The president makes the decision.' [Bush] did not make decisions, in part because the machinery of government that he nominally ran was actually running him.
"The most dispiriting and awful moment of the whole administration was the day that Bush gave the Presidential Medal of Freedom to [former C.I.A. director] George Tenet, General Tommy Franks, and [Coalition Provisional Authority chief] Jerry [Paul] Bremer—three of the most incompetent people who've ever served in such key spots
Bush has betrayed Iraqi reformers in a way that is "not much different from what his father did on February 15, 1991, when he called the Iraqi people to rise up, and then had second thoughts and didn't do anything once they did."
You know to be honest none of this is even remotely suprising. Most of us in this forum have realized all this stuff for a long time now. It is amazing that a Republican talking head can actually admit to it.
Spider
11-04-2006, 08:26 AM
Yep, great debating and sharing of ideas going on here. Can't even spell, but show your vast intelligence, you're very impressive Ha!
what part of I dont want to share Ideas with you , you didnt get ?
I learned along time ago it is useless to deal with people like you , just insult them , alot less headaches ............
elsid13
11-04-2006, 09:01 AM
Does this surprise anyone. This White House would have problems getting some in whore house, even with million dollars.
Gross incompetence. They shouldn't be running a public toll booth, much less a country!!!!!
gunns
11-04-2006, 10:57 AM
Amazing how lefties throw out "cynicism" and "attacking the messenger" yet if you look at their posts when someone posts from a source they don't like, we really get great debate don't we. They never, ever question the source or attack the poster if something is posted they don't like and doesn't jive with their opinions. No, no hypocrisy going on around here. These forums are always good for a laugh at least :rofl:
Brilliant rebuttal there Barry! Totally expected.
Oh and TJ, Barry is the dumb one, Steve is the damn scary one.
Taco John
11-05-2006, 02:46 AM
Cheney reacts to the criticisms of the Neo-Conservatives who have turned on Bush:
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/6v4t55vAbHM" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed>
Chaney in the above clip,It doesen't matter what the people want we are going to do what (we think) is right (in Iraq).