Poll: Start Jay if we drop the game in Pitt?

[watermock]

Hate to do this, I haven't posted a QB thread but I have a bone to chew.

Popps commented that it was a minority akin to Religious Right Wing Fanatic with tunnel vision that wanted a change.

First, this place is as akin to religious fanatisism as a food fight in a correctional institution.

[ludo21]

I was just about to post a QB thread, lord knows we needed one to discuss the position.

[Taco John]

Popps says a lot of things Mock. If he says them enough times in a convincing enough way, he can get the people who want the same thing to believe it as the truth.

He's very good at that.

[watermock]

Popps made such an increble accusation full of insults I felt compelled. I just want to see if the people wanting a change are in the minority like Right Wing Religious Fanatics with no clue that we have a pass rush problem.

[BroncoFanCam]

Pitt + Loss = Jake's benching.

We need to win big games, regardless of Pitt's record, this is a big game. If Jake can't get it done this week, what makes anyone think he will do it in the Playoffs?

[watermock]

I left out pass rush on purpose, because it's completely mutually exclusive.

[long beach bronco]

Put Cutler In.

[Wes Mantooth]

I left out pass rush on purpose, because it's completely mutually exclusive.

but its the reason why the poll exists. Jake had a good game against Indy. Why can't we bench the d line or Coyer?

[watermock]

but its the reason why the poll exists. Jake had a good game against Indy. Why can't we bench the d line or Coyer?

Start your own poll then. It's mutually exclusive so I didn't give weasels a way out. :giggle:

I'm not going to allow apologists to blame the pass rush or lack thereof an out.

Why don't I just say it was Ernster's fault? The question is very straight forward. Want me to make a poll "should Denver draft or get a free agent pass rusher to get to Manning? I wonder how that one would turn out.

Read the poll question again. He allready had a horrible game last game against Pitt.

[bombquixote]

I voted yes, but I'll add this caveate: The loss must be because of Jake's mistakes. If, like last week, the offense puts up good points but the defense gets toasted, then no, you don't bench Jake.

[Popps]

[QUOTE=watermock;1338807Popps commented that it was a minority akin to Religious Right Wing Fanatic with tunnel vision that wanted a change.[/QUOTE]

Wrong.

That's not remotely the context in which I made the statement.

My comment was made SPECIFICALLY in regards to SUNDAY'S LOSS to Indy, in that a few misguided people are going to try to pin that loss on the QB, even though the rest of the free world saw our defense collapse.

So, your premise for this poll is absolutely and completely false.

Have fun, though.

[Popps]

Popps says a lot of things Mock. If he says them enough times in a convincing enough way, he can get the people who want the same thing to believe it as the truth.

He's very good at that.

:rofl:

No, what might confuse you is that I say the SAME things enough times... whereas you simply change your stance every time the wind blows.

My statements were in direct relation to how people were blaming Plummer for the Indy loss, NOT in an overall sense of those who want Jay to start.

I believe there are very rational, logical, objective people that want Jay to start and base that on fair analysis...

you're just not one of them.

[Rigs11]

Pitt + Loss = Jake's benching.

We need to win big games, regardless of Pitt's record, this is a big game. If Jake can't get it done this week, what makes anyone think he will do it in the Playoffs?

What makes you think the defense can handle the playoffs?Especially if it's manning. Hey if the defense stinks it up again can we bench them?

[Popps]

I left out pass rush on purpose, because it's completely mutually exclusive.

Really?

Our d-line's performance is exclusive from our QB.

Veerrrrrrrrrry interesting.

Taco, your thoughts?

[Popps]

but its the reason why the poll exists. Jake had a good game against Indy. Why can't we bench the d line or Coyer?


Because that wouldn't jive with those who have agendas to meet and post only for the sake of their "argument," not for what's truly a problem with the team.

See, it can ONLY be the QB. It can't be both, it definitely can't just be the defense, it's got to ONLY be the QB.

Stick around, kid. You'll learn something around here.

[bronco militia]

there was yet another opportunity for Jake to be the Hero........but the pass fell short.


Jake's auditioning for his next employer and I'm ready to move on....

[RhymesayersDU]

This just in -- football is a team sport.

Look, I'm not trying to spin for Jake Plummer. Hell, I'm not even trying to defend him per se. I'm just as excited for the Cutler era to start as the next guy. But simply stating "if we lose, should he be benched" is a dumb question.

If Jake goes out and lays an egg, throws INTs, etc, and you want to call for Cutler, I'll hear that argument. I'll disagree because I believe he should start in 2007, but I will understand where it's coming from.

But if Jake throws 3 TDs, no INTs, plays well, and we still lose, well then it would be asinine to call for his benching "because we lost." Now granted, we probably won't lose if he plays like that, but you get my point.

So, it depends. If Jake is playing terribly and Shanahan decides to go Parcells and sit Jake down, so be it.

[Florida_Bronco]

Like others have said, it's not as simple as if we win or lose, it will depend on how Jake plays.

[elsid13]

Because that wouldn't jive with those who have agendas to meet and post only for the sake of their "argument," not for what's truly a problem with the team.

See, it can ONLY be the QB. It can't be both, it definitely can't just be the defense, it's got to ONLY be the QB.

Stick around, kid. You'll learn something around here.

Popps

We have a 6 games proving that the defense is pretty good this season, we have about 1 game of decent QB play. And before you go off about sacking Manning, that doesn't happen a heck of lot in this league. He was taken down 17 time last year and only 7 times this year. Team win against the colts when the limit their rushing yards on the early downs and put Manning
3rd and long situation and rush up the middle making Manning throw to his check downs and tackling those guys. Denver Defense failed on doing any of those 3 things on Sunday.

The colts game went south when Rhodes/Addia started craving up the defense for 5 to 6 yard especial in the second half. That was caused by Warren absence. From the Denver Post this morning:

"It's not the scheme," said Ebenezer Ekuban, the Broncos' defensive end who starts ahead of Dumervil. "Our previous two games against Oakland and Cleveland, we were getting pressure with just the front four guys. Give credit to Indy's offensive linemen. They did a good job of containing us and our pass rush. We just had a bad day, man. We just had a bad day."

The Broncos should be helped this week by the expected return of defensive tackle Gerard Warren. Without "Big Money" clogging the middle because of a sprained big toe, the Colts' Joseph Addai and Dominic Rhodes not only ran the ball effectively in the first half, they set up those rush-hesitating, play-action passes throughout.

"Yeah, Gerard is always a big plus," Lang said. "You can't cry over spilled milk. He wasn't playing against Indianapolis, and you have to step up and overcome that. But he would have helped."

[troya900]

Like others have said, it's not as simple as if we win or lose, it will depend on how Jake plays.

I find it kind of funny how you can say it isn't as simple as if we win or lose when most of the plummer supporters on here keep giving him a pass week after week after week of dog crap performances just because the defense goes out and wins the game. Yet if we lose we have to look at all the stats and decide then if plummer should be relieved of his duties.

[Florida_Bronco]

I find it kind of funny how you can say it isn't as simple as if we win or lose when most of the plummer supporters on here keep giving him a pass week after week after week of dog crap performances just because the defense goes out and wins the game. Yet if we lose we have to look at all the stats and decide then if plummer should be relieved of his duties.

What does that have to do with the actual football respect of it? What the Jake supports or haters do here have zero bearing on what happens out on that football field or the coaching decisions that go along with it.

Shanny and Co will decide if Jake gets pulled if we lose this game, and you can bet they will look at HIS performance to decide.

[BroncoFanCam]

What does that have to do with the actual football respect of it? What the Jake supports or haters do here have zero bearing on what happens out on that football field or the coaching decisions that go along with it.

Shanny and Co will decide if Jake gets pulled if we lose this game, and you can bet they will look at HIS performance to decide.You can make excuses all you want, but ask yourself this...

When wa sthe last time you saw Shanny doing his signature "half-fist-pump", and yelling his signature "All-Right!" On the sideline?

You haven't seen it, because he isn't doing it. Instead you get to see images of him hiding his face in the playbook, saying "OH NO!" and "AWWW MAN!"

Don't sit here and try and hide behind the fact a change hasn't been made already, because it's a brewin'... You are the king of Homerdom if you can't see it on Shanny's face week in and week out.

[Man-Goblin]

5-3 and in serious danger of missing the playoffs? I'm down for getting the kid some time at that point.

[troya900]

What does that have to do with the actual football respect of it? What the Jake supports or haters do here have zero bearing on what happens out on that football field or the coaching decisions that go along with it.

Shanny and Co will decide if Jake gets pulled if we lose this game, and you can bet they will look at HIS performance to decide.

I never said that it really mattered to shanny, I'm just saying it's kind of ironic that plummer supporters will give plummer a pass week after week after week of crap performances just cause the defense wins it, yet when we lose they want to look at his stats.

And to your reply I agree with you and as a person that wants to see Cutler it makes me sad. I see no reason why Shanahan would pull Plummer because of a crappy performance in Pittsburgh (even if we lose) when plummer has come out week after week before the Indy game and stunk up the field yet keeps his job.

[Florida_Bronco]

You can make excuses all you want, but ask yourself this...

When wa sthe last time you saw Shanny doing his signature "half-fist-pump", and yelling his signature "All-Right!" On the sideline?

You haven't seen it, because he isn't doing it. Instead you get to see images of him hiding his face in the playbook, saying "OH NO!" and "AWWW MAN!"

Don't sit here and try and hide behind the fact a change hasn't been made already, because it's a brewin'... You are the king of Homerdom if you can't see it on Shanny's face week in and week out.

What the **** are you talking about? Did you even read my post? I didn't make any excuses about anything.

Wow, that was really one of the strangest posts I've ever read.

[Hogan11]

1) No way is Denver losing to Pittsburgh

B) The only way Cutler sees the field this year is via a Plummer injury.

[Los Broncos]

Why start Jay and risk injury?

[Sodak]

Can someone explain why a rookie shouldn't play his first year? I forgot... or I'm starting to forget. All this jibber jabber is confusing.

[freak6]

Why start Jay and risk injury?

I agree. Jay Cutler is to good for the regular season. I think he should only come in for Super Bowls, or if we are losing in the playoffs.

[Popps]

Popps

We have a 6 games proving that the defense is pretty good this season, we have about 1 game of decent QB play. And before you go off about sacking Manning, that doesn't happen a heck of lot in this league.

It's not JUST about sacking Manning, but that's where it starts.

As for our "5 great defensive games to 1 good QB game," first of all.. that's wrong. For what it's worth, Plummer was arguably the MVP of the NE game and at least co-MVP of this game... by unbiased third parties. So, that's wrong.

But, let's say the (irrelevant) point that the QB only played one good game was true... he played a good game Sunday, and we lost.

Why did we lose?

Because our defense did the same thing they do every time we face a real playoff team. They went belly-up. The only difference in this game was that our offense fought through a poor defensive performance, and gave us the lead TWO different times in the 4th quarter, and then tied it up at the end... only to have the defense piss it away.

But, back to the 5 great defensive games... let me ask you a question...

If Plummer had 5 great games to start the season, then went belly-up in this game, threw 5 INTs and completely melted down. Would you be providing the same cushy, loving tones about him as you are the defense?

Or, would you be trying to run him out of town because he's a "choker."

Hey, maybe he is... but if Plummer is a choker, our defense is chokers 10-fold.

Our D falls apart like a cheap suit in big games, and the old "well, our O didn't score enough" line of crap was officially put to bed on Sunday.

But, hey.. make it all about the QB, folks. When Cutler takes over... you're going to see the same exact thing from our defense if we don't get some front four talent. Write it down... and I'll be here saying the same exact things.

[Taco John]

Our D falls apart like a cheap suit in big games, and the old "well, our O didn't score enough" line of crap was officially put to bed on Sunday.



Against one of the worst defenses in the league, Jake looked like he could still actually play at this level. I hardly think the Indianapolis game put anything to bed. I'll happily give Plummer props for not collapsing into a shell for the first half of the game like he has done in the past. For once, he wasn't a problem...

Also, Jake was hardly the MVP of the New England game. Not even Co-MVP. That game was all about Javon Walker and YAC.

[Ballhawk]

Against one of the worst defenses in the league, Jake looked like he could still actually play at this level.

He did? Outside of what could be viewed as a trick play (running Kircus back to the opposit side of the field) what exactly did he do? Outside of that one play he was 12/20 for 129 yards and once again when he had to throw he couldn't do it. I believe he was 0 for 3 on 3rd downs in the 2nd half.

Don't get me wrong, there is hope. Walters went 5/14 for 51 yards and beat Pitt.

[Popps]

Against one of the worst defenses in the league, Jake looked like he could still actually play at this level. I hardly think the Indianapolis game put anything to bed. I'll happily give Plummer props for not collapsing into a shell for the first half of the game like he has done in the past. For once, he wasn't a problem...

Also, Jake was hardly the MVP of the New England game. Not even Co-MVP. That game was all about Javon Walker and YAC.

Wasn't he awarded co-MVP for that game? Pretty sure he was.

Not like you'd give him credit, no matter what he did. Your infatuation really is disturbing. It's just beyond any kind of fixation I've ever seen on a message board.

But, he'll be gone soon... and I'm sure 50% of your posts will still be about him. The other 50% will be about Cutler, either defending poor play if he starts slow or crediting yourself for anything he does well as vindication for him over Plummer.

Meanwhile, I'll still be here... explaining football to you, reminding you that defense wins championships, and we haven't had a championship defense, and whether or not we have one now is anyone's guess.


I hardly think the Indianapolis game put anything to bed.

Well, it obviously did. It put to bed the idiotic notion that our defenses failures are somehow anyone's fault but their own. All of your "if we just scored one more TD in the first half" garbage you spouted after the Pitt (and multiple Indy) losses was flushed down the crapper, where it belongs.

Sunday's game was a lesson for you, printed in large, easy-to-read letters.
If you want to continue to ignore it because of a QB infatuation, have at it.

[fontaine]

It comes down to one thing:

I have the same expectation and standards for every starter on this team!

If one player is stinking it up for the past 8 games and is near the bottom of the league at his position, then he has to be held accountable.

I don't care if it's safety, punter, DL, OL, FB, or yes QB.

I expect good play from my starters so if Gold was near the bottom of the league at his position for half a season then screw him.

It's the same with Plummer. No excuses, no bullsh*t.

No QB in this offense, whatever the reason, should be near the bottom of the league at every QB stat.

If Plummer can't be an asset on the field out there, then **** him, dump him, and move on. NO ONE player means more to me than this team winning.

Unfortunately for Shanahan, and all Bronco fans, the major reason why Plummer still has a job is because Cutler is an unkown at this point. Do you honestly believe Plummer would still be out there if we had a vet like Charlie Batch?

But that excuse is only going to save Plummer's sorry, bottom of the league, position for only so long. Every game we have to suffer his brain farts is one game closer to his end.

[watermock]

Looks like the real "minority" has spoken huh Popps. And this was after a half-ass decent performance against a crap defense to the exclusion of Freeney.

I see basically 8 votes for Jake or bust and I think it's pretty clear who the minority is. Owned.

[elsid13]

It's not JUST about sacking Manning, but that's where it starts.


But, back to the 5 great defensive games... let me ask you a question...

If Plummer had 5 great games to start the season, then went belly-up in this game, threw 5 INTs and completely melted down. Would you be providing the same cushy, loving tones about him as you are the defense?



If Plummer had played at half the level of defense has played this season and had bad game, I would treat it as single event that could be improved on and moved on. And really not about getting pressure on Payton, it about stopping the run, something Denver failed to do on Sunday. Once Warren is in the line up agains then that problem should be fixed.

[Northman]

It would at least take a good 2-3 losses in a row and it would have to attributed to Jake's performance in order for him to get benched. And the Indy game was more on defense than on him. He really is only accountable for one loss this year and that is the Rams game. He most likely will be our starter till the end of the year.

[Ballhawk]

It would at least take a good 2-3 losses in a row and it would have to attributed to Jake's performance in order for him to get benched. And the Indy game was more on defense than on him. He really is only accountable for one loss this year and that is the Rams game. He most likely will be our starter till the end of the year.

Not really, there are 15 QBs in the NFL that on this team would have hung 50 pts on that Indy D last Sunday. Indy averages 30 a game and they have just started playing well. It is all great that we scored 31, but 40 something was there for the taking. Can you imagine what Peyton would do against Indy D?

Can't blame fans for wanting above average play out of the QB position.

[Ballhawk]

So far this year Rookie QBs are 4-8, the starters they replaced 1-10.

[OrangeShadow]

I think it depends. If we get the running game going and the defense is playing like they did before the indy game and we lose because of a couple bonehead throws by jake then yes. If we lose because of a defensive lack like last week then no.

[DrFate]

Not really, there are 15 QBs in the NFL that on this team would have hung 50 pts on that Indy D last Sunday.

Considering the Colts scored on nearly every possession, those 15 QBs would have still lost - 51-50.

Simply look at the box score:
http://sports-att.espn.go.com/nfl/drivechart?gameId=261029007

With the exception of the opening drive, and the end of the first half (where Manning took a knee) - the Colts scored every time they had the ball.

The Denver offense scored on FOUR drives of 80+ yards. They had a great game. The Denver defense forced ZERO turnovers, and only stopped the Colts on ONE possession. The defense that slammed the Pats in week 3 simply didn't show up against the Colts.

[toad]

Not really, there are 15 QBs in the NFL that on this team would have hung 50 pts on that Indy D last Sunday. Indy averages 30 a game and they have just started playing well. It is all great that we scored 31, but 40 something was there for the taking. Can you imagine what Peyton would do against Indy D?

Can't blame fans for wanting above average play out of the QB position.

Here's how the these stats work out after week 8:

St. Louis' defense has given up an avg of 23.7 pts/game...we scored 10.
KC's defense has given up an avg of 21.7 pts/game...we scored 9.
NE's defense has given up an avg of 12.4 pts/game...we scored 17.
Baltimore's defense has given up an avg of 13 pts/game...we scored 13.
Oaklands defense has given up an avg of 21.1 pts/game...we scored 13.
Cleveland's defense has given up an avg of 19.8 pts/game...we scored 17.
Indy's defense has given up an avg of 21.9 pts/game...we scored 31.

We've been behind the scoring curve against St. Louis, KC, and Oak.
We've been right at the scoring curve against Baltimore and Cleveland.
We've been above the scoring curve against NE and Indy.

So I think our offensive output against our specific opponents has been pretty average....it just looks "bad" because we had 2 very poor offensive games to start the season. I also like the fact that we've been at or above the average scoring against the better teams we've played (Baltimore, NE, and Indy)...especially considering Baltimore and NE have solid defenses.

Its looking up, I believe.

On Plummer, I think the conterversy really starts if he lays a goose-egg against Pittsburgh and we lose...but, big picture, I think it takes 2-3 of those performances in losses for Cutler to come in.

[Dedhed]

My comment was made SPECIFICALLY in regards to SUNDAY'S LOSS to Indy, in that a few misguided people are going to try to pin that loss on the QB, even though the rest of the free world saw our defense collapse

And to a deluded few the loss was just what they needed to support their "Anyone but Plummer is accountable in a loss. Jake gets all credit in a win" stance. To an apologist Sunday was a win because Jake didn't throw 3INTs, and have a completion % below 50. It was a banner day for Plummer;all 176 yards of it.

And there are others here who recognize that a loss is a loss, and that if this team proves that it can't beat the caliber of teams they'll face inthe playoffs, changes will be made. You're a fool if you think the changes will start anywhere but at QB.

[Man-Goblin]

1) No way is Denver losing to Pittsburgh


I wish I shared your optimism.

Look people, the fact remains that Shanahan never denied the Mort report that if Plummer couldn't beat Indy and/or Pittsburgh he would seriously consider making a change.

In my mind the change could come as early as Sunday if the team remains lethargic on O (which is a good possibility considering the caliber of Pitt's D).

If the Broncos lose to Pittsburgh (which is another good possibility). I think we'll see Cutler the next Sunday. But Shanahan isn't going to publicly show that hand until he actually plays it.

[Dedhed]

I wish I shared your optimism.

Look people, the fact remains that Shanahan never denied the Mort report that if Plummer couldn't beat Indy and/or Pittsburgh he would seriously consider making a change.

In my mind the change could come as early as Sunday if the team remains lethargic on O (which is a good possibility considering the caliber of Pitt's D).

If the Broncos lose to Pittsburgh (which is another good possibility). I think we'll see Cutler the next Sunday. But Shanahan isn't going to publicly show that hand until he actually plays it.I agree. For all the defensive blame being thrown around here, the offense could have iced that game early in the second half. Against the best offense in the league, the defense put the offense in a position to put the game away and they failed.

6 points to the Colts in the 1st half. If Jake comes out and leads the team to a TD on the first posession of the 2nd half, the Colts are a 1 dimensional offense. The pass rush is free to get after Manning because they don't need to respect the run if the score is 21-6. Instead the offense goes 3 and out on the 1st posession and turns the ball over on the 2nd.

[BMF Bronco]

:rofl:

No, what might confuse you is that I say the SAME things enough times... whereas you simply change your stance every time the wind blows.

My statements were in direct relation to how people were blaming Plummer for the Indy loss, NOT in an overall sense of those who want Jay to start.

I believe there are very rational, logical, objective people that want Jay to start and base that on fair analysis...

you're just not one of them.

Are you a "flip-flopper" TJ?!

[Dedhed]

:rofl:

No, what might confuse you is that I say the SAME things enough times... .
It's called "monomaniacal". You say the same things regardless of what actually happens.

[watermock]

That's exactly how I saw the game unfold to start the second half! 14 straight points later, one after you know who fumbles, and takes a 20 to 14 lead. As Dedhed so bluntly pointed out, if we score and continue the momentum to open up the second half, it might of taken some heart out of them.

I was thinking the exact same thing, that this was the perfect opportunity to twist the knife for the kill. (opening second half "drive" if you could possibly call it that.

[Willynowei]

Losses I would pin on Jake = 1. Losses I would pin on the defense = 1.

Well, looks like they both need to be benched. :)

[watermock]

"Monomania"...see, the mane is actually an educational experience. I have a pretty good vocabulary but rarely use it. Sure beats "Tunnel Vision", much cooler and smart sounding. "files word for future use against Bush Bashers"

[troya900]

Losses I would pin on Jake = 1. Losses I would pin on the defense = 1.

Well, looks like they both need to be benched. :)

Lol ya, but you have to also look at the 5 wins and those are most certainly attributed to the defense since they didn't give up double digits in any of them and the offense (particularly plummer because the running game has been good) stunk up the field. But I guess the way it goes is if we win we can bury our heads in the sand to plummers performance, like most plummer supporters want us to.

[wolf754life]

this is a first round playoff loser, time to put cutler in and draft some d-lineman next year....this year is pretty much over.........

[Dedhed]

Losses I would pin on Jake = 1. Losses I would pin on the defense = 1.

Well, looks like they both need to be benched. :)And wins?

[Taco John]

Are you a "flip-flopper" TJ?!

Not hardly. That's just one of those things that Popps says over and over again hoping that people will believe it. "You change your stance when the wind blows." He's the only person I've ever had accuse me of such a thing. Mostly I get accused of being stubborn, so I'm not sure where Popps comes up with it.

But he's been saying it for years, and even though it hasn't caught on, he'll keep repeating it over and over and over until it does.

[watermock]

You were one of the first to call for Jakes head I think Taco. I waited till 3 weeks ago when I turned my back. It will take a hell of a lot for me to change it again. It's not like we would be putting in BVP or Jarious Jackson. Jay is a blue chip prospect that has had a full camp, preseason and half a regular season to learn the ropes.

Anyone see how Dallas rallied behind Romo after he got a weeks reps with the starters? The team was excited, Tuna was excited.

Vindication? When he still isn't even in the top 30 passing rating?

Ded hit the nail on the head again...he's on a roll.

Originally Posted by Willynowei
Losses I would pin on Jake = 1. Losses I would pin on the defense = 1.

Well, looks like they both need to be benched.

Ded:
And wins?

mock:
The NE playoff win?

[Lidderer]

That's exactly how I saw the game unfold to start the second half! 14 straight points later, one after you know who fumbles, and takes a 20 to 14 lead. As Dedhed so bluntly pointed out, if we score and continue the momentum to open up the second half, it might of taken some heart out of them.

I was thinking the exact same thing, that this was the perfect opportunity to twist the knife for the kill. (opening second half "drive" if you could possibly call it that.

two things:

1) This is just bats*t crazy thinking. You're acting as though there are times in games when teams AREN'T trying to score(and yes, i'm excluding kneel-downs and the like). This cinematic idea you have of football games is far removed from what actually happens in the games themselves. There's no button a player presses during different moments, regardless of how much you believe in one. To put it clearly: who the **** wasn't thinking that it would be a good time to score a td? Hey bronco fans, which one of ya'lls thought we should kneel on that opening drive?

2) i've always thought you and Dedhead were the same poster, and was surprised to learn otherwise in your post here. A similar style runs through.

[watermock]

It's called taking off the Orange Sunglasses and being Objective. Find a place where I said we weren't trying to score. The fact is, I said that it was an optimum time with momentum to really stick the knife in. A few minutes later, we were down 20-14 and the entire complection of the game had changed.

There are no buttons that certain famous QB's didn't press in critical moments? You can't be serious.

You obviously never heard the phrase "Big players make Big plays in Big Games?" Elway, Brady, Starr, Vinateri, Montana to name a few.

Then you have your garden variety QB's that melt under pressure, SOB for example.

It's always a good idea to score. What an idiotic assertion. Try taking a reading comprehension class and buy a vowel. The point was it was an optimal time to even get a field goal even and KEEP THE MOMENTUM.

You obviously don't remember me saying that it would take between 27-31 points. I got my 31 but we couldn't keep Manning off the field with 3 and outs in the second half. I'm perfectly aware that we couldn't stop Manning...I knew we couldn't keep him down all game.

And where did I say that the Defense didn't have a sub par game? I'm talking about a QB that has struggled all the way back to the New England playoff game.

I have been screaming we need a decent pass rush for years. WTF are you barking at. If I see a weakness from any position from Owner to Waterboy, I will mention it. If your not getting better, your getting worse. Stone cold fact.

[watermock]

Found this tidbit in the Al Davis Elway Conspiracy thread:

And he's right. The quarterback has to have that intangible quality that inspires confidence

and inspires hope in the other players.

great ones, like Unitas, have it.

"You can't measure it," Accorsi said, "but you know it when you see it."

Sounds like a definition of obsenity by the High Court Ha!

[Mile High Shack]

Defense allows a score on every drive sans 2...1 which they got past our 50 and Clark dropped an easy 1st down
the other in which they took a knee

and people still want to blame Plummer

wow...just wow, the level of hate for one player on this board is amazing, even to me, and I'm negative.

Plummer isn't going to be our QB next year, but we are stuck with him this year, get use to it folks.

[watermock]

If Jake had consistently had a half ass decent games for the past 8 games, noone would be calling for his head. This ISN'T ABOUT SUNDAY. How many times do I have to tell you monomaniacle fools? (This is going to be a handy word).

[Mile High Shack]

If Jake had consistently had a half ass decent games for the past 8 games, noone would be calling for his head. This ISN'T ABOUT SUNDAY. How many times do I have to tell you monomaniacle fools? (This is going to be a handy word).

sure it is, some people on here are still saying offense should've iced the game and then our D wouldn't of given up 10,000 yards and 15,000 points to Indy.

Fact is, Jake didn't play bad against NE or Indy, the two top teams in the AFC.

I'm not a Jake hater, nor a supporter, I just like the Broncos and I'm not sure a rookie QB could do that against NE for one and 2, consistantly make the right read in the Indy game.

if we are eliminated from playoff contention, then there is no point to continue the Jake era, but until that happens, Shanny isn't going to bench Plummer, b/c if we aren't elminated, that means we are winning...and the W is the only thing that matters

[Crushaholic]

This is one reason I hate fantasy football. Individual stats mean NOTHING to me if we win. Obviously, that's not the case with some people...

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

This is one reason I hate fantasy football. Individual stats mean NOTHING to me if we win. Obviously, that's not the case with some people...

Same here.

Losses that are the team's fault -2
Win's that are the team's credit - 5

This isn't basketball

[watermock]

No it's not just about last Sunday Shack, it's the apologists with the short memories, even tho if Jake doesn't fumble we probably win the game, I'm not blaming him for the loss. 31 should of been enough.

The question was "If Jake struggles again against PITT is it time for a change?", not "Should Jay start this week?". For me, this goes all the way back to the playoffs starting in New England where our D won the game. Jake just managed not to hurt the team fatally, but he made up for it the next week.

The poll results are pretty much what I expected considering Jake had an adequate game. I can accept the positions that we should wait till Oakland, or after we miss the playoffs. They aren't unreasonable opinions.

I shouldn't of even made that option, if we miss the playoffs, it will mean that Jake sucked and is out the door anyway. That's not even up to debate actually. We miss the playoffs on the last game or two there is ZERO chance Jay isn't starting.

[troya900]

Yeah blaming plummer IS NOT about this last Colts game. It's the fact we already know what we have in plummer, which is a player who consistently makes bone headed plays can't scan the field worth a crap and continually ****s himself in playoff games.

[Florida_Bronco]

This is one reason I hate fantasy football. Individual stats mean NOTHING to me if we win. Obviously, that's not the case with some people...

I agree, fantasy football is stupid.

[Barry Ramey]

Well, if the reports are true, Cutler hasn't gotten many snaps in practice this year, much less with the 1st team offense. So if Shanahan is gearing up for a change, that's a strange way to be doing it.

My feeling is Shanahan is going with Plummer the whole way unless injured. If he thought Cutler was ready, one would think he'd be preparing more in practice, but it seems he's content to let Cutler sit at least this year.

I don't know why a rookie QB would be expected to lead this team to the playoffs. It's is very rare for such a thing to happen and Shanahan knows that.

If the Bronco defense gets shredded again this week, will people blame Plummer for that even if he has a good game? Probably. But I vote no, if they lose to the Steelers, that's not time to switch QB's especially if that's not even the reason they would happen to lose.

[Alkazar]

Irregardless of past play or what Plummer does in the next few games, I will not advocate putting in Cutler until the season is shot. As poorly as he seems to have played this year (up until last Sunday at least), Plummer still represents the best chance for the Broncos to make the post-season. Whether he could take us all the way to SB XLI, remains to be seen, but I do have some serious doubts about that.

[Chupacabra]

there was yet another opportunity for Jake to be the Hero........but the pass fell short.


Jake's auditioning for his next employer and I'm ready to move on....


oh right, after he snaked his way out of a collapsed pocket away from 2 defenders all the while keep us in field goal range giving the broncs d a chance to send the game into overtime..... how many starting qbs in the league right now would have made that play?

[watermock]

Shanahan isn't going to give the media tools ammo. When Jake's end comes, it will be a swift execution.

Did Parcells say that if Bledsoe struggled, he might be pulled at halftime?

You novice analyists are amusing. "I analyise Football...That's what I DO..."

[Blueflame]

Defense allows a score on every drive sans 2...1 which they got past our 50 and Clark dropped an easy 1st down
the other in which they took a knee

and people still want to blame Plummer

wow...just wow, the level of hate for one player on this board is amazing, even to me, and I'm negative.

Plummer isn't going to be our QB next year, but we are stuck with him this year, get use to it folks.

After last Sunday's game, hey, his QB rating is all the way (almost) up to the level he played at for the 2002 Arizona Cardinals. With another good game, he might even go as high as the 2000 Cardinals, y'never know. :P

Oh, yeah... that's right. Those Cardinals teams went 5-11 and 3-13 respectively.

[watermock]

He's going to crack that top 30 next week Blue...I can just feel it...

Just like he demolished the Steelers in the AFC Championship.

[Blueflame]

He's going to crack that top 30 next week Blue...I can just feel it...

Just like he demolished the Steelers in the AFC Championship.

I honestly hope he does excel, Mock. The Steelers' defense is no slouch, though, particularly on their home field, following an embarrassing loss in Oakland. The Broncos can't afford any sloppy ball-handling. We have to play virtually mistake-free football in order to have a chance of winning on Sunday.

[elsid13]

Everyone excited about the 3-9 play at the end of the game. The pass that killed me was on 3-6 on first series of the second half. When Jake pass was off target to wide open Walker for the first down. He makes that pass the drive continue and we don't give the ball up on the Colts to start at midfield

This series here
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2 id=home vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=home align=left colSpan=2>Denver Broncos at 14:54</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 id=play vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>1-10-DEN26</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(14:54) J.Plummer pass incomplete short right to J.Walker (G.Gardner).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 id=play vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>2-10-DEN26</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(14:51) M.Bell right tackle to DEN 30 for 4 yards (N.Harper, R.Brock). IND-N.Harper was injured during the play.</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 id=play vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>3-6-DEN30</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(14:17) J.Plummer pass incomplete deep left to J.Walker.</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 id=play vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>4-6-DEN30</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(14:11) P.Ernster punts 45 yards to IND 25, Center-M.Leach. T.Wilkins to IND 44 for 19 yards (M.Leach, K.Paymah).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[No1BroncoFan]

If one player is stinking it up for the past 8 games and is near the bottom of the league at his position, then he has to be held accountable.
This is what I don't understand. Why does everyone think Plummer isn't being held accountable for his poor play this season? The fact that he hasn't been benched?

Shanahan has stated that Cutler is not ready for the NFL, hence we have no viable (in the head coach's mind) alternative to Jake yet people are freaking out that he hasn't been benched. Yes, Jake has played like sh*t this year and while the Indy game was an improvement it was nowhere near great. But, until Shanahan thinks Cutler gives us the best chance to win, Plummer will be the starter despite what all the smarter-than-the-coach-internet-posters want.

We'll see Cutler only if we're mathematically eliminated or Plummer is injured. That's it.

Ben

[watermock]

Show me a quote where Shanahan said "He's not ready for the NFL". What I read was "He's ahead of the curve". Your making a total assertion. I dare you to come up with that quote.

I've heard stuff like "Jake gives us the best chance at this time"..and spin like that...nice imagination.

[watermock]

Everyone excited about the 3-9 play at the end of the game. The pass that killed me was on 3-6 on first series of the second half. When Jake pass was off target to wide open Walker for the first down. He makes that pass the drive continue and we don't give the ball up on the Colts to start at midfield

This series here
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2 id=home vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=home align=left colSpan=2>Denver Broncos at 14:54</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 id=play vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>1-10-DEN26</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(14:54) J.Plummer pass incomplete short right to J.Walker (G.Gardner).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 id=play vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>2-10-DEN26</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(14:51) M.Bell right tackle to DEN 30 for 4 yards (N.Harper, R.Brock). IND-N.Harper was injured during the play.</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 id=play vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>3-6-DEN30</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(14:17) J.Plummer pass incomplete deep left to J.Walker.</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 id=play vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>4-6-DEN30</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(14:11) P.Ernster punts 45 yards to IND 25, Center-M.Leach. T.Wilkins to IND 44 for 19 yards (M.Leach, K.Paymah).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That's the series I have talked about but evidently is a figment of my imagination. After a long TD drive by Indy, Jake fumbles deep into our own redzone before the defense can even catch their breath.

[No1BroncoFan]

Show me a quote where Shanahan said "He's not ready for the NFL". What I read was "He's ahead of the curve". Your making a total assertion. I dare you to come up with that quote.
Well gee, if I could link to the television interview when he said it, I would. Unlike you, I don't have weeks at a time to search the internet for something to back up my message board comments. You don't want to believe it? Fine by me. I don't much give a sh*t what some Viking fan thinks.
I've heard stuff like "Jake gives us the best chance at this time"..and spin like that...nice imagination.
Spin? Plummer has played like sh*t, yet Shanahan keeps playing him with the chosen one waiting in the wings. What exactly is that supposed to say? "Yeah! Cutler gives us the best chance to win, but we're gonna play Plummer because... er... well... "

So watermock, just how stupid is Shanahan for not playing Cutler?

Buy a clue dimwit. If Shanahan believed Cutler was the best option, he'd be playing. It has nothing to do with what you or I (or anyone else on this board) thinks.

BTW - Have you figured out what the "Karman Line" is yet?

Ben

[BroncoFanCam]

This is what I don't understand. Why does everyone think Plummer isn't being held accountable for his poor play this season? The fact that he hasn't been benched?

Shanahan has stated that Cutler is not ready for the NFL, hence we have no viable (in the head coach's mind) alternative to Jake yet people are freaking out that he hasn't been benched. Yes, Jake has played like sh*t this year and while the Indy game was an improvement it was nowhere near great. But, until Shanahan thinks Cutler gives us the best chance to win, Plummer will be the starter despite what all the smarter-than-the-coach-internet-posters want.

We'll see Cutler only if we're mathematically eliminated or Plummer is injured. That's it.

Ben

RED = News to me...

Last I heard the entire coaching staff, and his offensive and defensive teammates were praising his abilities (physically and mentally) and how quickly he learned the playbook and terminology, as well as his instant cammand of the huddle.

Not only that but Shanny being quoted in MULTIPLE papers as saying "Yes, a rookie QB, stepping into the right situation can have success."

These things and the fact that he has been babying a 10 year veteran into not making ROOKIE mistakes for the last two seasons, begs the question...

WHAT'S THE BLOODY DIFFERENCE?!?!?!?!

[Florida_Bronco]

RED = News to me...

Last I heard the entire coaching staff, and his offensive and defensive teammates were praising his abilities (physically and mentally) and how quickly he learned the playbook and terminology, as well as his instant cammand of the huddle.

Not only that but Shanny being quoted in MULTIPLE papers as saying "Yes, a rookie QB, stepping into the right situation can have success."

These things and the fact that he has been babying a 10 year veteran into not making ROOKIE mistakes for the last two seasons, begs the question...

WHAT'S THE BLOODY DIFFERENCE?!?!?!?!

I'm still waiting for you to respond to post #25.

[BroncoFanCam]

Why start Jay and risk injury?

Are you suggesting they might try and Keemo VanOlhoffen his ass??!?!?!?!?!?

:redpunch: :redpunch: :redpunch:

[watermock]

Well gee, if I could link to the television interview when he said it, I would.

You can't, because it doesn't exist.

People put words into Shanahan's mouth all the time. What network was it on. He generally just does his weekly press conference this time of year.

What exactly is that supposed to say? "Yeah! Cutler gives us the best chance to win, but we're gonna play Plummer because... er... well... "

So watermock, just how stupid is Shanahan for not playing Cutler?


First, the question was if he struggled again NEXT week but apologist comprehension skills aren't the greatest around here. Second, yeah, I think a change is order IF Jake throws a turd AGAIN against Pittsburg.

Your a fool. You think Shanahan is going to show his hand if he's thinking of pulling Plummer when he allready feels a hot breath on the back of his neck?

Haven't you noticed how similiar Parcells acted, i.e. irritated with QB questions then "Suddenly Romo was in the second half".

You don't have a clue. You don't crack your starter even more by threatening him with the rope.

When Jake is pulled, Shanahan won't say a single bad word about Jake. Just the same thing he always says: We feel that (insert player here) gives us the best chance to win at this time. That's all he's going to say or do.

If you think Shanahan has been vindicating Plummer your making crap up. Shanahan does a TV show probably.

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/local_story_304073846.html

I'm hearing him say that the offense had an opportunity to win and didn't take advantage of it. I heard things quite different than you out of his mouth. But revisionist history from sources so mysterious must be your forte. Shanahan just goes on every sports talk show on cable. It's not hard to find. He's got a TV show on CBS, and a Monday new conference. It's not that hard to find.

Your going to sell a made up quote that Shanahan said that "Cutler isn't ready to play in the NFL?" That's simply a stone cold idiotic LIE unless you can prove me wrong. I have gone thru his Channel 4 and Monday new conference and nothing of the sort was said like that.

Second, why would he say that anyway?

There is your mysterious TV feed.

[No1BroncoFan]

You can't, because it doesn't exist.

People put words into Shanahan's mouth all the time. What network was it on. He generally just does his weekly press conference this time of year.



First, the question was if he struggled again NEXT week but apologist comprehension skills aren't the greatest around here. Second, yeah, I think a change is order IF Jake throws a turd AGAIN against Pittsburg.

Your a fool. You think Shanahan is going to show his hand if he's thinking of pulling Plummer when he allready feels a hot breath on the back of his neck?

Haven't you noticed how similiar Parcells acted, i.e. irritated with QB questions then "Suddenly Romo was in the second half".

You don't have a clue. You don't crack your starter even more by threatening him with the rope.

When Jake is pulled, Shanahan won't say a single bad word about Jake. Just the same thing he always says: We feel that (insert player here) gives us the best chance to win at this time. That's all he's going to say or do.

If you think Shanahan has been vindicating Plummer your making crap up. Shanahan does a TV show probably.

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/local_story_304073846.html

I'm hearing him say that the offense had an opportunity to win and didn't take advantage of it. I heard things quite different than you out of his mouth. But revisionist history from sources so mysterious must be your forte. Shanahan just goes on every sports talk show on cable. It's not hard to find. He's got a TV show on CBS, and a Monday new conference. It's not that hard to find.

Your going to sell a made up quote that Shanahan said that "Cutler isn't ready to play in the NFL?" That's simply a stone cold idiotic LIE unless you can prove me wrong. I have gone thru his Channel 4 and Monday new conference and nothing of the sort was said like that.

Second, why would he say that anyway?

There is your mysterious TV feed.
Piss off mock. Just because you can't find something doesn't mean it isn't there? Or maybe because it wasn't said since the Indy game? Maybe you should lay off the booze. I don't much give a sh*t if you believe me or not and I'm not going to waste my time finding a link to win an internet argument. I just don't care enough who the starter is.

You never did address the central point of my post. If Cutler is so fvkking great, why isn't he getting more snaps iin practice and why isn't he starting? If it's so obvious to you, because of some pre-season games, that Cutler is better than Plummer, why can't Shanahan see it? After all, he sees the team every freakin' day. You see them for what, seven minutes before you're too drunk to focus?

Personally, I hope Cutler is every bit as good as everyone is asserting. If he's not, he's gonna have a hell of a time here (except from TJ who is too emotionally invested and will blame everything but Cutler, even if he richly deserves the blame).

Unlike some, I don't have a problem with the idea of Cutler playing. As long as he's the one who gives us the best chance to win. Righ now, Shanahan says (by his actions, not his words) that guy is Plummer. If he changes his mind tomorrow, it's all good with me. I want the 11 guys in the field that give us the best chance, period. I don't believe, for several reasons, that it's Cutler at this point.

Ben

[Florida_Bronco]

Piss off mock. Just because you can't find something doesn't mean it isn't there? Or maybe because it wasn't said since the Indy game? Maybe you should lay off the booze. I don't much give a sh*t if you believe me or not and I'm not going to waste my time finding a link to win an internet argument. I just don't care enough who the starter is.

You never did address the central point of my post. If Cutler is so fvkking great, why isn't he getting more snaps iin practice and why isn't he starting? If it's so obvious to you, because of some pre-season games, that Cutler is better than Plummer, why can't Shanahan see it? After all, he sees the team every freakin' day. You see them for what, seven minutes before you're too drunk to focus?

Personally, I hope Cutler is every bit as good as everyone is asserting. If he's not, he's gonna have a hell of a time here (except from TJ who is too emotionally invested and will blame everything but Cutler, even if he richly deserves the blame).

Unlike some, I don't have a problem with the idea of Cutler playing. As long as he's the one who gives us the best chance to win. Righ now, Shanahan says (by his actions, not his words) that guy is Plummer. If he changes his mind tomorrow, it's all good with me. I want the 11 guys in the field that give us the best chance, period. I don't believe, for several reasons, that it's Cutler at this point.

Ben

Great post! I agree 100% in that I don't care who starts, as long as Shanny puts the best players on the field.

[troya900]

Piss off mock. Just because you can't find something doesn't mean it isn't there? Or maybe because it wasn't said since the Indy game? Maybe you should lay off the booze. I don't much give a sh*t if you believe me or not and I'm not going to waste my time finding a link to win an internet argument. I just don't care enough who the starter is.

You never did address the central point of my post. If Cutler is so fvkking great, why isn't he getting more snaps iin practice and why isn't he starting? If it's so obvious to you, because of some pre-season games, that Cutler is better than Plummer, why can't Shanahan see it? After all, he sees the team every freakin' day. You see them for what, seven minutes before you're too drunk to focus?

Personally, I hope Cutler is every bit as good as everyone is asserting. If he's not, he's gonna have a hell of a time here (except from TJ who is too emotionally invested and will blame everything but Cutler, even if he richly deserves the blame).

Unlike some, I don't have a problem with the idea of Cutler playing. As long as he's the one who gives us the best chance to win. Righ now, Shanahan says (by his actions, not his words) that guy is Plummer. If he changes his mind tomorrow, it's all good with me. I want the 11 guys in the field that give us the best chance, period. I don't believe, for several reasons, that it's Cutler at this point.

Ben

Ya god help up us if shanny is keeping cutler out cause he's fairly sure he'll play worse than plummer has this year so far, that means he would be the worst QB in the league statistically.

[BroncoFanCam]

You never did address the central point of my post. If Cutler is so fvkking great, why isn't he getting more snaps iin practice and why isn't he starting? If it's so obvious to you, because of some pre-season games, that Cutler is better than Plummer, why can't Shanahan see it? After all, he sees the team every freakin' day. You see them for what, seven minutes before you're too drunk to focus?

I am sure Jay has learned plenty playing with the second squad in practice. What he would be taking away from practice would be learning the plays in general, timing, routes, defenses, formations, audibles etc. Basically the same stuff as Jake with the first team.

Regardless of the play, the timing, the steps, the cuts in/out the blocking... All of that varies very, very little between the squads. What changes is the abilities of the people around him to make that play even better.

I am sure they all have their certain little quirks, and moves that are unique to that particular player, but the plays and Jay Cutler's responsibilities during that play aren't going to change.

If Chris Meyers makes the wrong block wth the second team, he is going to get his butt chewed, and told how he should have done it, just like George Foster would with the starters. "For this play to work, you need to do THIS."

If Kircus cuts the wrong direction on his route, the coaches are going to get on him the same way as they would Javon Walker (the difference is Javon would probably already know he stuffed it up).

Also as mock already mentioned...

You don't go around giving your backup practice time with the starters, not if you want your 1st string QB keep his head on straight. There is enough pressure for him to keep his job woithout the coach poking him and prodding him in practice. Showing him... "Look if you don't do it, he will." That is not showing the guy that you think he can do it. It only makes him doubt himself even more.

Jake has been doing very little in our wins, last week was his ONLY contribution offensively, and we can't afford him to fall back into his first 6 games performance.

As it stands he did enough to hang onto his job one more week, drop this one though and he's gonna be getting a lot of clip-board time.

[Dedhed]

Shanahan has stated that Cutler is not ready for the NFL,
Ben
I'd like to see that quote, please.

[watermock]

No1BroncoFan;1339823]Piss off mock.[quote] Standard insult when confronted, even tho I never specifically confronted you, just your comment. Classic Immaturity.

[quote]Just because you can't find something doesn't mean it isn't there?[/b]

I can't see it. You didn't even supplant it with an argument moron.

[quote]Or maybe because it wasn't said since the Indy game? Maybe you should lay off the booze. I don't much give a sh*t if you believe me or not and I'm not going to waste my time finding a link to win an internet argument. I just don't care enough who the starter is.

Your not going to quote because the quote doesn't exist. Shahanahan does two shows. He does he press conference, and he does his weekly show. If you want to find it, go to either site and find it. Your not going to,

YOUR A LIAR.

You never did address the central point of my post. If Cutler is so fvkking great, why isn't he getting more snaps iin practice and why isn't he starting? If it's so obvious to you, because of some pre-season games, that Cutler is better than Plummer, why can't Shanahan see it? After all, he sees the team every freakin' day. You see them for what, seven minutes before you're too drunk to focus?

You didn't have a central point. How do you know how many reps that Cutler is getting? Remember, the question was IF JAKE STRUGGLES AT PITT Should We make a change? And I left plenty of other options. Did Shanahan disclose how many reps Jay has gotten? Or are you making an assertion? Of course Jake is getting the majority of reps, he's the starter this week. The question was if he lays another turd you moron.

Personally, I hope Cutler is every bit as good as everyone is asserting. If he's not, he's gonna have a hell of a time here (except from TJ who is too emotionally invested and will blame everything but Cutler, even if he richly deserves the blame).

Now I'm Cutler's Sugar Daddy along with Taco? STFU.

Unlike some, I don't have a problem with the idea of Cutler playing. As long as he's the one who gives us the best chance to win. Righ now, Shanahan says (by his actions, not his words) that guy is Plummer. If he changes his mind tomorrow, it's all good with me. I want the 11 guys in the field that give us the best chance, period. I don't believe, for several reasons, that it's Cutler at this point.

Ben

Gee whiz...I thought my poll was going to determing the starter. It was to prove Popps was a moron. Jump in the pool. The idea of cutler playing wasn't the question moron. Buy a clue.

The question was if Jake struggled against Pitt would it be time for a change.

The idea of Jay Cutler playing this year is running at around 80 percent from my count.

[watermock]

I'd like to see that quote, please.


You dimwit...It was on TV Dedhed...that's why I wasted some time to find the CBS feed and listen to it. Those are the only two things Shanahan will talk to.

So he's just a ****ing liar.

Assertive comments are a common phenomenon Dedhed.

I don't even want to be your friend. We don't even know each other at all.

These dimwits are amusing.

[Dedhed]

Ya god help up us if shanny is keeping cutler out cause he's fairly sure he'll play worse than plummer has this year so far, that means he would be the worst QB in the league statistically.
The ONLY reason Cutler isn't starting already is because of the political ramifications in the locker room, and those are dwindling by the week.

[ScottXray]

I'd like to see that quote, please.

If I remember correctly ( and I MAY be wrong) Shanahan DID say that Cutler was not ready to start in the NFL. But it was about two weeks into Training camp, around the first preseason game.
There has been a LOT of time since then, and Cutler has had a lot of time to improve. To my knowledge He (Shanahan) has NOT repeated that statement or anything like that since then.

As others said...Cutler will go in when Shanny says so...,
But, if Plummer is doing poorly, I think it will be this year, just not before the end of the Oakland game. If we end up at 5-4 after a 5-1 start I think Jake will sit, because effectively, any shot at the playoffs will be on the line then. It will probably take 11-5 or 12-4 to win the division.

[wabbit]

... As others said...Cutler will go in when Shanny says so...,
But, if Plummer is doing poorly, I think it will be this year, just not before the end of the Oakland game. If we end up at 5-4 after a 5-1 start I think Jake will sit, because effectively, any shot at the playoffs will be on the line then. It will probably take 11-5 or 12-4 to win the division.

Shanahan learned a hard lesson when he benched Bubby Brister for Brian Griese; he may've been right in doing so, but you had better steel the locker room to the possibility.

Mike lost his team that year, despite some pretty incredible performances by Griese.

He won't do it again, and there is no indication he is preparing the team for a change.

If it happens, it will be because the players...in a sense...petition him to make it happen, and even then he would probably give Plummer one last shot to win a crucial game, as he did with Griese vs. Oakland several years ago.

I'm not saying Cutler won't play this year, or even that Plummer won't get benched at some point.

I'm only saying it would happen only under the most extreme circumstances, and that just hasn't happened yet.

[Popps]

Shanahan learned a hard lesson when he benched Bubby Brister for Brian Griese; he may've been right in doing so, but you had better steel the locker room to the possibility.

Mike lost his team that year, despite some pretty incredible performances by Griese.

He won't do it again, and there is no indication he is preparing the team for a change.

If it happens, it will be because the players...in a sense...petition him to make it happen, and even then he would probably give Plummer one last shot to win a crucial game, as he did with Griese vs. Oakland several years ago.

I'm not saying Cutler won't play this year, or even that Plummer won't get benched at some point.

I'm only saying it would happen only under the most extreme circumstances, and that just hasn't happened yet.\


Wabbit bringing the logic, as usual.


I'm only saying it would happen only under the most extreme circumstances, and that just hasn't happened yet.

.... and basically, that's why I chose "other."

Funny, though... looks like about 2/3rds of the forum favors a more even-keeled approach to this situation. Guess the quiet masses aren't buying into the panic being sold by some around here.



So, with a couple recent polls we've learned...

A. The forum is split on Coyer, with about half of the posters feeling he's done a marginal job.

B. 2/3rd of the forum favors Shanahan's decision of sticking with Plummer while the team is winning.


Interesting stuff.

[atomicbloke]

I remember that on opening week, during the third quarter agianst the Rams, one of the announcers said that Mike Shanahan mentioned that Jay Cutler is not ready for the NFL yet. A shot of Jay on the sidelines was shown then.

That is the only instance I can recollect of Shanny saying Jay wasn't ready. And technically, it was the CBS announcer quoting Shanny.

[fontaine]

This is what I don't understand. Why does everyone think Plummer isn't being held accountable for his poor play this season? The fact that he hasn't been benched?

Shanahan has stated that Cutler is not ready for the NFL, hence we have no viable (in the head coach's mind) alternative to Jake yet people are freaking out that he hasn't been benched. Yes, Jake has played like sh*t this year and while the Indy game was an improvement it was nowhere near great. But, until Shanahan thinks Cutler gives us the best chance to win, Plummer will be the starter despite what all the smarter-than-the-coach-internet-posters want.

We'll see Cutler only if we're mathematically eliminated or Plummer is injured. That's it.

Ben

For what it's worth, I kind of agree with you. As I said in my original post, Shanahan has a quandry in that Cutler is a complete unkown at this point so it's not so easy to say let's just bench Plummer.

For what it's worth I definitely believe Plummer deserves to be benched for the crimes he's committed against this team! But Shanahan has reasons to believe he still gives us the better chance to win. I don't agree with it, but that's my problem, still I'll always back this team regardless.

[Taco John]

So, with a couple recent polls we've learned...

A. The forum is split on Coyer, with about half of the posters feeling he's done a marginal job.

B. 2/3rd of the forum favors Shanahan's decision of sticking with Plummer while the team is winning.


Interesting stuff.


Hilarious stuff.

I think this is probably your spin on it that you'll repeat over and over hoping people will believe it.

It's just too hard to believe that anyone would try to paint the coach leading the unit who has saved us from 0-7 and whose unit has delivered all 5 of our wins as doing a "marginal job," despite the fact that he has no dominant pass rushers up front to work with. Meanwhile his players are rallying around him and his scheme even after a tough loss.

But even more hilarious that the current worst starting quarterback in the league (this is virtually a statistical fact at this point) is given a pass by these same people because the "marginally coached" defense has saved him from the embarassment of leading this championship calibre team to an 0-7 start.

It's a mad, mad, mad, mad Mane. Either that or Popps is painting a false picture. Nah. When has he ever done that!? :rofl:

[fontaine]

\

So, with a couple recent polls we've learned...

A. The forum is split on Coyer, with about half of the posters feeling he's done a marginal job.

B. 2/3rd of the forum favors Shanahan's decision of sticking with Plummer while the team is winning.


Interesting stuff.

Not really, if you understand the basic dynamic of these polls.

If you were to put the same Poll on Coyer before the Indy game most people here would be in complete support. Hell, even you flip flopped on him.

It's the what have you done for me lately generation.

Here let me use the same arguement some have used here with Plummer:

Coyer has led us to over 30 wins in three years and also led us to three consecutive trips to the playoffs!

[Taco John]

If you were to put the same Poll on Coyer before the Indy game most people here would be in complete support. Hell, even you flip flopped on him.




True story. Here is a poll from before the Indy game to prove it. (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=47888)

[Taco John]

And here's the one taken after it. (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=48805)

Looks like Popps changes his stance whenver the wind blows...

[fontaine]

True story. Here is a poll from before the Indy game to prove it. (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=47888)

People just see things the way they want to see them. To some that Poll you just linked to, just doesn't exist because it doesn't vindicate their line of thinking.

It's the same way Popps believes and says that this defense was built for the sole reason to stop teams like Indy scoring so many points against us and then will crucify this D for one lousy game, but at the same time he'll continue to say (quite rightly) that we just haven't put any quality resources along the DL.

The two statements just don't add up.

How can you say this D was built to stop Indy and lambast Coyer when we don't have quality DL?

Same when some people will say Jake's fumbles are the result of great DL play.

But are never willing to give credit to a probowl duo like Manning and Wayne when they carve up our defense.

[Popps]

It's the same way Popps believes and says that this defense was built for the sole reason to stop teams like Indy scoring so many points against us and then will crucify this D for one lousy game

Actually, it's been 5 lousy games... the ones that matter. Playoff games, or games against playoff-caliber teams. You know, teams like Indy, who we've constructed this defense to stop.

he'll continue to say (quite rightly) that we just haven't put any quality resources along the DL.

Well, you've now officially represented my posts accurately one time on this forum. Congrats.

But are never willing to give credit to a probowl duo like Manning and Wayne when they carve up our defense.

Manning is a great QB. What, you didn't know that before Sunday? Problem is, last time... it was Ben Rothlisberger and Cedric Wilson tearing this defense to shreds... a guy who might be losing his job soon and a WR most NFL fans couldn't find on a map.

[fontaine]

Actually, it's been 5 lousy games... the ones that matter. Playoff games, or games against playoff-caliber teams. You know, teams like Indy, who we've constructed this defense to stop.

Stop the presses!

You mean to say defenses are supposed to stop teams in the playoffs. My god what a revelation!

Now we can finally say the Orange Crush was a lousy defense because they stank it up in the SuperBowl and couldn't stop Dallas.

They gave up 27 points, and failed miserabley when it counted!

No wonder none of those losers ever made the HOF!

:rofl:

[Popps]

It's just too hard to believe that anyone would try to paint the coach leading the unit who has saved us from 0-7 and whose unit has delivered all 5 of our wins as doing a "marginal job," :

Poor guy... let me help you read...

The poll was on Coyer's job overall. That means from day one. About half the respondents thought he was average to below average.

But, in true Taco fashion, you've twisted it to be specifically about this season, realizing that you have no factual argument to make against the factual results of a factual poll.

That said, I'd imagine our defense falling on their faces in their biggest (and some might argue only) true test this season might even sway some people to think that Coyer is suspect THIS season, as well. Takes all kinds, huh?

Meanwhile his players are rallying around him and his scheme even after a tough loss.

So, when Rod Smith rallies around Plummer, he's a pawn reciting the company line, but when players back Coyer, it's 100% legit.

Got it.

despite the fact that he has no dominant pass rushers up front to work with.

No kidding? We don't have a pass-rush? Wow, interesting that you'd finally notice that. Hey, here's a question... would Coyer have anything to do with that after almost 4 years of being our head coach, or does he have no say in player personnel decisions?

Beyond that, I've already made that exact point 100s of times around here, and it's the reason I actually stick by Coyer. Have you heard me calling for his replacement? No.

But even more hilarious that the current worst starting quarterback in the league (this is virtually a statistical fact at this point) is given a pass by these same people because the "marginally coached" defense has saved him from the embarassment of leading this championship calibre team to an 0-7 start.

Separate issues. Our QB may very well be a problem, Taco.... but he wasn't on Sunday.

Sunday, our defense had their test... the test they'd been studying for for 3 years. They failed miserably.

See, I was making this point about our defense (pass-rush) long before you took on your bizarre infatuation with Plummer. When Plummer's gone, I'll still be making this argument if they haven't fixed it.

It's a mad, mad, mad, mad Mane.

Yea, well... they say **** rolls downhill.

Sorry you didn't like me repeating the results of the polls. But, you've never been big on facts.

[Popps]

Stop the presses!

You mean to say defenses are supposed to stop teams in the playoffs. My god what a revelation!

Now we can finally say the Orange Crush was a lousy defense because they stank it up in the SuperBowl and couldn't stop Dallas.

They gave up 27 points, and failed miserabley when it counted!

No wonder none of those losers ever made the HOF!

:rofl:

When our defense can get us into a SB, we'll talk. But, they've been too busy allowing playoff records to opposing offenses to worry about SB appearances.

[fontaine]

That said, I'd imagine our defense falling on their faces in their biggest (and some might argue only) true test this season might even sway some people to think that Coyer is suspect THIS season, as well. Takes all kinds, huh?

So the defense wasn't tested the other 7-8 times this season when Plummer coughed up the ball to leave the D in short field position where they had to save TDs and bail out our offense because we couldn't score?

Apart from maybe one/two games, every time Plummer has stepped on the field he's tested our defense!


Hilarious!

[Taco John]

So, when Rod Smith rallies around Plummer, he's a pawn reciting the company line, but when players back Coyer, it's 100% legit.

Got it.


I've never said Rod was reciting company line even once. I think Rod is as sincere in his defense of Plummer as he was in his defense of Griese. Rod stands by his guys.

And yes, I think that the players who are coming out and saying "there's nothing wrong with the scheme, we need to execute" are being sincere.

[Popps]

So the defense wasn't tested the other 7-8 times this season when Plummer coughed up the ball to leave the D in short field position where they had to save TDs and bail out our offense because we couldn't score?

Apart from maybe one/two games, every time Plummer has stepped on the field he's tested our defense!


Hilarious!

The only hilarious thing about this thread is that you and Taco can't mention our defense without the word "Plummer" following shortly after.

It reminds me of my dog when I put her toy up on a shelf. She'll sit there just staring at it for 30 minutes, unable to be distracted from her singular focus.

Someone could put up a thread saying that we need an upgrade at long-snapper, and you and Taco would somehow work Plummer into your first posts.

Totally removes the validity of the responses, but does make for good entertainment.

You guys can't argue the defenses merit on its own. You have to bring in the QB. But, that's what agenda-driven people do.

I'm a huge Cutler fan. If he starts next week, I'll be his biggest fan. I'll also be here saying the same things I've been saying about our horrid pass-rush long before Jake was a Bronco.

[Taco John]

No kidding? We don't have a pass-rush? Wow, interesting that you'd finally notice that.
Finally? What are you talking about? Everybody knows that we're weakest up front. You're not special.
Hey, here's a question... would Coyer have anything to do with that after almost 4 years of being our head coach, or does he have no say in player personnel decisions?
You think defensive ends grow on trees or something? Coyer puts in his tickets, and Shanahan and Sundquist pull the trigger based on what they think are the teams key issues. This past draft, hmmm... Well apparently they decided that a first round quarterback was the priority over a first round DE. Your issue should be with Shanahan and Sundquist, not Coyer.

[fontaine]

When our defense can get us into a SB, we'll talk. But, they've been too busy allowing playoff records to opposing offenses to worry about SB appearances.

Once again, you missed the point.

No defense, even the Orange Crush can consistently overcome 4 or so turnovers by it's own offense. Yeah it's the defense that technically gives up the points but it's a team loss.

You can't just blatantly flat out say our defense fails in the playoffs over and over again, when the ONE time our offense didn't turnover over the ball 4 or 5 times they ended up beating the New England Patriots who were practically invincible in the playoffs.

It's a team game. Everything the offense does affects the D and vice versa.

[fontaine]

You guys can't argue the defenses merit on its own. You have to bring in the QB. But, that's what agenda-driven people do.

I'm a huge Cutler fan. If he starts next week, I'll be his biggest fan. I'll also be here saying the same things I've been saying about our horrid pass-rush long before Jake was a Bronco.

Allright so let's NOT talk about Plummer and this defense.

Let's talk about another Bronco defense called the Orange Crush and how they "failed" in the SuperBowl. They must have really sucked to give up 27 points in the biggest game of the season right Popps? They sure must have been lousy!

See, I didn't talk about the QB there. I just mentioned the defense out of context like you do and said that the Orange Crush defense failed miserably and were lousy when it mattered.

---But then again, you'll just ignore this post and give us some non relevant anecdote about your pet right? You're turning more and more into Watermock!

:clown:

[Taco John]

[size="4"]You can't just blatantly flat out say our defense fails in the playoffs over and over again...etc...

But he will... He thinks that he can criticize the defense to no end, and everything is cool, but we can't criticize Plummer without being dogs looking at a chew toy. It's just his perspective. He's right, and everyone who disagrees with him is a dog without a chew toy. It's the same act, just different circumstances.

This is the guy, who in the middle of a near Baltimore shut-out, blasted Coyer for being a mediocre coach who doesn't deserve credit for anything, but has the nerve to call us "agenda driven." Who does he think he's fooling? There must be someone stuffing his rep box who buys into his schtick.

He's just into protecting Plummer, and the best way to do that is to blast the defense for failing Plummer, including blasting Coyer, the guy who's put together this amazing, historic defense without any dominant pass rushers. But if/when Plummer chokes in the post season again this year, and our defense is left holding the bag against a playoff team, it won't be Plummer he criticizes. He'll whine about not having any dominant pass rushers, and ironically call for Coyer's head.

[fontaine]

But he will... He thinks that he can criticize the defense to no end, and everything is cool, but we can't criticize Plummer without being dogs looking at a chew toy. It's just his perspective. He's right, and everyone who disagrees with him is a dog without a chew toy. It's the same act, just different circumstances.
This is the guy, who in the middle of a near Baltimore shut-out, blasted Coyer for being a mediocre coach who doesn't deserve credit for anything. Freak will be along shortly with the quote, I'm sure.
He's just into protecting Plummer, and the best way to do that is to blast the defense for failing Plummer, including blasting Coyer, the guy who's put together this amazing, historic defense without any dominant pass rushers. But if/when Plummer chokes in the post season again this year, and our defense is left holding the bag against a playoff team, it won't be Plummer he criticizes. He'll whine about not having any dominant pass rushers, and ironically call for Coyer's head.

Like I said TJ, the Orange Crush defense sure did suck and failed miserably when it mattered right? I mean they gave up 27 points in the biggest game of the season!

What was poor old Craig Morton supposed to do when that crappy Defense just choked into giving up 27 points!

:giggle:

[Taco John]

You guys can't argue the defenses merit on its own. You have to bring in the QB. But, that's what agenda-driven people do.



This defense couldn't be any easier to defend. Without any dominant pass rushers, they've nearly shut down the endzone, and saved this team from an 0-7 season. What more really needs to be said?

[Popps]

So, let me get this straight. Because we don't have a dominant pass-rusher, the very thing I've been bitching about forever... the defense gets a free pass for their epic, multiple playoff collapses?

So. we play crappy, but it's OK... because our players just aren't good enough. So, don't criticize the players (on defense) or the (defensive) coaches, because they're limited by a lack of talent... which is O.K..(!?!)

LOL!

Wow, take Jake Plummer out of your posts, and you two don't know which end is up. Great stuff.

[fontaine]

So, let me get this straight. Because we don't have a dominant pass-rusher, the very thing I've been b****ing about forever... the defense gets a free pass for their epic, multiple playoff collapses?

So. we play crappy, but it's OK... because our players just aren't good enough. So, don't criticize the players (on defense) or the (defensive) coaches, because they're limited by a lack of talent... which is O.K..(!?!)

LOL!

Wow, take Jake Plummer out of your posts, and you two don't know which end is up. Great stuff.

What part of these two sentences did you not understand?

No defense, even the Orange Crush can consistently overcome 4 or so turnovers by it's own offense. Yeah it's the defense that technically gives up the points but it's a team loss.

[Popps]

Like I said TJ, the Orange Crush defense sure did suck and failed miserably when it mattered right? I mean they gave up 27 points in the biggest game of the season!

Yea, well... if our defense would have done that Sunday, we would have won.


Conversely, had our offense scored 31 points in the 77 Superbowl, we would have won.

Beyond that, I'm not sure if you were actually watching the 77 Superbowl, but go ahead and check the half-time score and tell me if we still had a chance to win the game. I'll give you a hint, our 77 defense didn't buckle to the tune of an NFL playoff record in the first half.

[Popps]

What part of these two sentences did you not understand?

No defense, even the Orange Crush can consistently overcome 4 or so turnovers by it's own offense. Yeah it's the defense that technically gives up the points but it's a team loss.

Umm... I don't understand the 4 turnovers part.

See, we had one turnover on Sunday. (A forced fumble by a dominant defensive linemen.)

Yet, with only one turnover... and a huge output by our offense, our defense still went belly up, and if it weren't for some dropped passes by Indy receivers, might have allowed 39 completions in 39 attempts.

So, it's not me that has the "understanding" issue. You're talking about the 77 Broncos and 4 turnovers and a bunch of other unrelated nonsense. I'm talking about our defensive collapse on Sunday.

Get it together, and we'll try this again when you figure out exactly what it is you're saying.

[fontaine]

[I]So, it's not me that has the "understanding" issue. You're talking about the 77 Broncos and 4 turnovers and a bunch of other unrelated nonsense. I'm talking about our defensive collapse on Sunday.

No you're not you liar.

I took exception to your posts when you said this about our defense:

Actually, it's been 5 lousy games... the ones that matter. Playoff games, or games against playoff-caliber teams. You know, teams like Indy, who we've constructed this defense to stop.

If you want to talk about the defensive collapse on Sunday, then stick to the damn subject, instead of lumping our playoffs losses together with this one and just saying that the Defense once again played lousy.

When all I'm saying is that it's a team loss. Both our offense and defense screwed up.

[troya900]

I just have to add the only reason this team has a victory in the playoffs since elway retired is because of the defense. Plummer again **** his pants in the NE game and was bailed out by the defense. I understand wanting to blame the D for the 3 playoff loses, but overlooking how the D played you have to look and see how plummer also plays and it isn't pretty. While Cutler might not come in and light up the world every damn broncos fan knows what we get with plummer. We get a guy who has to be bailed out by his teammates for him to win. We get a guy consistently making boneheaded passes just leaving you scratching your head. We get a guy who is terribly inaccurate. We get a guy who can't scan the field worth a crap. We know what we get with plummer. Really sue me and the rest of the fans that want to see cutler come in BECAUSE we know what we get with plummer!

[Broncoman13]

Bring on Cutler... Plummer sucks.

Find a new DC... Coyer sucks.

Cut Warren, Ekuban, Lang, Myers, Dumervil, and Veal... They suck.

Provide cake and presents... I think TJ and Popps are going to be together for a good long while. Then again, Celebrity Marriages never last.

[Dedhed]

Here's Popps's reality:

In a loss, the defense gave up too many points.

In a win, the offense scored enough points.

There is nothing in between those two blanket statements for this mighty thinker.

[Popps]

Here's Popps's reality:

In a loss, the defense gave up too many points.

In a win, the offense scored enough points.

There is nothing in between those two blanket statements for this mighty thinker.

Of course there are gray areas.... but those don't get a lot of play around here.

Bottom line is, our defense has fallen apart in its biggest challenges. 3 times against Indy, right out of the gate... against Pitt in the AFCCG DIRECTLY out of the gate, and now against Indy when our offense finally made it easy on them by racking up 31 pts.

Look, Shanahan has been feverishly re-tooling this defense for going on four years now. If I'm crazy, so is the entire front office, coach, staff... because their actions have told you what they've thought about the defense over the last few years. If people want to use that argument for Jake Plummer or the offense, I'm fine with that. But don't tell me it's a one way street.

The problem is, while we've made A LOT of moves on the d-line, we haven't made any serious ones in about 10 years. The results speak for themselves. Last in sacks last year and no pass rush in our biggest game this year.

I'm guessing this is where someone tells me they don't like Jake Plummer again.....

[Dedhed]

Of course there are gray areas.... but those don't get a lot of play around here.

Bottom line is, our defense has fallen apart in its biggest challenges. 3 times against Indy, right out of the gate... against Pitt in the AFCCG DIRECTLY out of the gate, and now against Indy when our offense finally made it easy on them by racking up 31 pts.

Look, Shanahan has been feverishly re-tooling this defense for going on four years now. If I'm crazy, so is the entire front office, coach, staff... because their actions have told you what they've thought about the defense over the last few years. If people want to use that argument for Jake Plummer or the offense, I'm fine with that. But don't tell me it's a one way street.

The problem is, while we've made A LOT of moves on the d-line, we haven't made any serious ones in about 10 years. The results speak for themselves. Last in sacks last year and no pass rush in our biggest game this year.

I'm guessing this is where someone tells me they don't like Jake Plummer again.....
Wrong yet again. The defense has bailed the offense out on the multiple occassions where Jake and the offense have fallen apart.

The offense, for their part, has not once bailed out the defense when they've fallen apart.

Funny I thought it was the front office that moved up to draft a QB, and went decidedly OFFENSIVE in the off-season.

I'm guessing that doesn't tell you anything, though.

[smalltowngrll]

This is just cracking me up. It's his fault, it's their fault, it's never that persons fault. Shall we call the defense the BRON and the offense the COS?? It seems this board has defined our one team into two seperate teams forgetting that both sides need to play as one team in order to make it to the Playoffs. Our whole team has to play as ONE in order to get anywhere. Didn't they teach you that in grade school? Yes, there are tweeks that need to be made to different areas, but this is becoming a freakin' blame game now! :pity:

[troya900]

This is just cracking me up. It's his fault, it's their fault, it's never that persons fault. Shall we call the defense the BRON and the offense the COS?? It seems this board has defined our one team into two seperate teams forgetting that both sides need to play as one team in order to make it to the Playoffs. Our whole team has to play as ONE in order to get anywhere. Didn't they teach you that in grade school? Yes, there are tweeks that need to be made to different areas, but this is becoming a freakin' blame game now! :pity:

Shanahan moved up in the draft to get Cutler that was very high on just about everyones draft list. Lets not kid ourselves here Cutler was brought in to replace Jake. When Jake comes out and looks so bad for so many games in this 2006 season being practically the worst QB in the league productivity wise he should be getting all the heat that he has. If he comes out and plays like he did for a good chunk of the 2006 season by being pretty efficient none of this Cutler talk would be near as big as it is.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

This is just cracking me up. It's his fault, it's their fault, it's never that persons fault. Shall we call the defense the BRON and the offense the COS?? It seems this board has defined our one team into two seperate teams forgetting that both sides need to play as one team in order to make it to the Playoffs. Our whole team has to play as ONE in order to get anywhere. Didn't they teach you that in grade school? Yes, there are tweeks that need to be made to different areas, but this is becoming a freakin' blame game now! :pity:

Damn right STG - Teach these kids it is a team game.

[Atlas]

seems like people around here want Plummer to fail so Cutler will start. That's just ridicules.

[No1BroncoFan]

[QUOTE]No1BroncoFan;1339823]Piss off mock.[quote] Standard insult when confronted, even tho I never specifically confronted you, just your comment. Classic Immaturity.

[quote]Just because you can't find something doesn't mean it isn't there?[/b]

I can't see it. You didn't even supplant it with an argument moron.



Your not going to quote because the quote doesn't exist. Shahanahan does two shows. He does he press conference, and he does his weekly show. If you want to find it, go to either site and find it. Your not going to,

YOUR A LIAR.



You didn't have a central point. How do you know how many reps that Cutler is getting? Remember, the question was IF JAKE STRUGGLES AT PITT Should We make a change? And I left plenty of other options. Did Shanahan disclose how many reps Jay has gotten? Or are you making an assertion? Of course Jake is getting the majority of reps, he's the starter this week. The question was if he lays another turd you moron.



Now I'm Cutler's Sugar Daddy along with Taco? STFU.



Gee whiz...I thought my poll was going to determing the starter. It was to prove Popps was a moron. Jump in the pool. The idea of cutler playing wasn't the question moron. Buy a clue.

The question was if Jake struggled against Pitt would it be time for a change.

The idea of Jay Cutler playing this year is running at around 80 percent from my count.

You dimwit...It was on TV Dedhed...that's why I wasted some time to find the CBS feed and listen to it. Those are the only two things Shanahan will talk to.

So he's just a ****ing liar.

Assertive comments are a common phenomenon Dedhed.

I don't even want to be your friend. We don't even know each other at all.

These dimwits are amusing.

Piss off fvk-bag. You're nothing more than an abusive drunk and I pity anyone who lives with/near you.

I won't supplly a quote because I'm simply not going to take the time searching the internet to find something that Shanahan said a couple of weeks ago in a blurb on television. You're not worth the hassle.

Get bent mock.

Ben

[freak6]

Piss off fvk-bag. You're nothing more than an abusive drunk and I pity anyone who lives with/near you.

Ben

Meanie!!!

lol

[Arkansas Bronco]

I am going with other for now because if something does cause us to loose and Jake had a good game then no. If he goes in and tosses 3 picks and looses another fumble then most likely.

[BroncoFanCam]

seems like people around here want Plummer to fail so Cutler will start. That's just ridicules.No one WANTS Jake to fail, I am sure everyone speaking badly of him on these boards, sits in front of their TV, or with an ear toards teh radio sayingf "C'mon Jake!" When he drops back to pass, or we are going into a passing situation... I know I do.

I am a Bronco fan, and whenever we win, regardless of who is Quarterbacking, it is a better day for me.

That said, when we cannot put even the worst of teams away due to monumental offensive struggles.

When our QB leaves me, other fans, his teammates and coaches scratching their heads, or hitting themselves in the head... You HAVE to ask the question, "Is this good enough?"

When WIDE OPEN receivers in the end- zoneare being overthrown by 10 yards, from the 15 yardline, and countless other poorly thrown balls all over the field.

When a QB on a team with one of the best running attacks in football, can't manage to break the top 30 in efficiency (currently 36th in passer rating -http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/QB-PASSING/2006/regular - )...

When that same QB has nearly twice as many turnovers as he does touchdowns...

With a WR squad that includes a HOF hopeful on one side, and a Pro Bowler and obvious force (both deep and across the middle) on the other...

An O-Line that has anually been one of the greatest in the game (don't bring up Lepsis yet, Pears has done a good job in his 1.5 games thus far)...

Our offense should be performing and putting people away PERIOD!

Fact is, Jake's lackluster play is directly responsible for our offensive woes. The coaching staff has virtually no faith in him to get the job done, and are handcuffing him into not making mistakes, and rightfully so!

When given free-reign he is more of an asset to the other team, and the existence of a purely vanilla offense, in the end is his fault. The blame laid on him is not un-warranted.

I do NOT wish for Jake to do bad, as already said, I just have an overwhelming fear that he WILL ANYWAYS. I have been given NOTHING to quell those fears. Only support for the reasons they are there to begin with.

[Atlas]

Fact is, Jake's lackluster play is directly responsible for our offensive woes. The coaching staff has virtually no faith in him to get the job done, and are handcuffing him into not making mistakes, and rightfully so!
.

The Fact is Jake played great against the Colts and instead of people saying this is good news and now the offense has had a breakout game and will start rolling, they talk about Plummer failing next week and starting Cutler.

[Dedhed]

The Fact is Jake played great against the Colts and instead of people saying this is good news and now the offense has had a breakout game and will start rolling, they talk about Plummer failing next week and starting Cutler.

Yet another example of how the term "great" has disintegrated in the presence of Plummer. The day 176 yards is a great performance is the day Griese is a great QB.

[watermock]

Idiot. All you produced was a defensive insult. Shanahan never said that Plummer played "Lights Out" because it never existed and you know it, and your the delusional 6 year old. I called you on it, and you can't support anything you said, so in typical pre-adolecent behavior, your start insulting me and disregarding what I said.

Congratulations, your an official moron.

[Taco John]

The Fact is Jake played great against the Colts and instead of people saying this is good news and now the offense has had a breakout game and will start rolling, they talk about Plummer failing next week and starting Cutler.




I'm happy Jake played well against the Colts defense. The number one reason I'm happy for that is that the Colts are one of the worst teams against the pass in the league. Right now, they're ranked 30th overall in percentage of completions against them (http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=4&_1:col_1=6).

How excited am I supposed to get that Jake managed to actually look like a Pro quarterback against one of the worst passing defenses in the league? Yeah, it was great to see him complete 13 solid passes against them. But this week, we're facing a real defense-- the second rated defense in intercepting the ball. Hopefully the third worst defense in the game gave Jake enough of a warm-up that he can go out there and get us 13 more good completions.

[Northman]

No one WANTS Jake to fail, I am sure everyone speaking badly of him on these boards, sits in front of their TV, or with an ear toards teh radio sayingf "C'mon Jake!" When he drops back to pass, or we are going into a passing situation... I know I do.

I am a Bronco fan, and whenever we win, regardless of who is Quarterbacking, it is a better day for me.

That said, when we cannot put even the worst of teams away due to monumental offensive struggles.

When our QB leaves me, other fans, his teammates and coaches scratching their heads, or hitting themselves in the head... You HAVE to ask the question, "Is this good enough?"

When WIDE OPEN receivers in the end- zoneare being overthrown by 10 yards, from the 15 yardline, and countless other poorly thrown balls all over the field.

When a QB on a team with one of the best running attacks in football, can't manage to break the top 30 in efficiency (currently 36th in passer rating -http://www.nfl.com/stats/playersort/NFL/QB-PASSING/2006/regular - )...

When that same QB has nearly twice as many turnovers as he does touchdowns...

With a WR squad that includes a HOF hopeful on one side, and a Pro Bowler and obvious force (both deep and across the middle) on the other...

An O-Line that has anually been one of the greatest in the game (don't bring up Lepsis yet, Pears has done a good job in his 1.5 games thus far)...

Our offense should be performing and putting people away PERIOD!

Fact is, Jake's lackluster play is directly responsible for our offensive woes. The coaching staff has virtually no faith in him to get the job done, and are handcuffing him into not making mistakes, and rightfully so!

When given free-reign he is more of an asset to the other team, and the existence of a purely vanilla offense, in the end is his fault. The blame laid on him is not un-warranted.

I do NOT wish for Jake to do bad, as already said, I just have an overwhelming fear that he WILL ANYWAYS. I have been given NOTHING to quell those fears. Only support for the reasons they are there to begin with.



Post of the year and dead on.

[Popps]

No one WANTS Our offense should be performing and putting people away PERIOD!

31 points should be enough to win an NFL game.

If it's not, and you need to score more than that every time you play a decent opponent, you can forget winning any Superbowls, I don't care who your QB is.

Ask Elway. He got tired of having to score 50 points to win a game, so he re-structured his contract to help us bring in a dominant pass-rusher.

Miraculously, we went on to win a couple of SBs with an absolutely dominant performance by our defense AND offense over two playoff years.


Once again, get rid of Plummer if you want. You're still left with a giant elephant in the living room that a lot of people around here just refuse to recognize: our defense caves in big games. Sunday was just the latest example.

Is that Coyer? No pass rush? Both?

Whatever it is, we've already decided our solution for the QB issues facing this team. Maybe after ten years, it's time to figure out how to shut down a QB like Gannon or Manning?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Yet another example of how the term "great" has disintegrated in the presence of Plummer. The day 176 yards is a great performance is the day Griese is a great QB.

I believe the phrase is "lowered expectations". When his so-called supporters are saying he played great with a performance like that, it just shows how little they actually expect of him.

[TheDave]

I've been on the fense all season over this, but if we loose Pittsburg and Jake has another game similiar to the previous 7 I think I've seen enough and it's time to move on....

[-Slap-]

seems like people around here want Plummer to fail so Cutler will start. That's just ridicules.

Actually its comments exactly like this one which have divided the board.

The argument evolves thusly:

Bronco Fan A: "Plummer is struggling badly."

Broncos Fan B: "Relax, we're (quote winning record)"

Bronco Fan A: "Yeah, but he's really playing terribly, maybe we should try Cutler."

Bronco Fan B: "You're NOT A BRONCO FAN!!!!!!!!"

Bronco Fan A, justifiably: "**** you, asshole."

Etc, etc, etc.

[Northman]

Actually its comments exactly like this one which have divided the board.

The argument evolves thusly:

Bronco Fan A: "Plummer is struggling badly."

Broncos Fan B: "Relax, we're (quote winning record)"

Bronco Fan A: "Yeah, but he's really playing terribly, maybe we should try Cutler."

Bronco Fan B: "You're NOT A BRONCO FAN!!!!!!!!"

Bronco Fan A, justifiably: "**** you, a-hole."

Etc, etc, etc.



You forgot:


Bronco Fan B: The defense is horrible and until we fix it we wont win a Super Bowl.

Bronco Fan A: True, the defense needs help but it doesnt excuse the poor Qb play.

Bronco Fan B: Bull****! The defense puts Jake in holes and he turns the ball over because he is making plays.

Bronco Fan A: We were only down by 8 with the Rams though? And the defense has kept the team in every game except one?

Bronco Fan B: ..........

[Rigs11]

You forgot:


Bronco Fan B: The defense is horrible and until we fix it we wont win a Super Bowl.

Bronco Fan A: True, the defense needs help but it doesnt excuse the poor Qb play.

Bronco Fan B: Bull****! The defense puts Jake in holes and he turns the ball over because he is making plays.

Bronco Fan A: We were only down by 8 with the Rams though? And the defense has kept the team in every game except one?

Bronco Fan B: ..........

You forgot:

Moron Bronco fan: let's throw in a rookie.
Smart Bronco fan: Why? we're winning.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but Plummer's stats suck
Smart Bronco fan:Ummm....we're winning.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but I like stats.
Smart Bronco fan:Boy the defense really sucked last game.
Moron Bronco fan: It was Jake's fault.
Smart Bronco fan:Umm the offense scored 31 points.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but he fumbled.
Smart Bronco fan:Umm.Manning was scoring all day. Did it really matter if the ball was at the 10 or at the 40?
Moron Bronco fan:Cutler wouldn't of fumbled.
Smart Bronco fan:Really? A rookie?
Moron Bronco fan:My cat is my only friend.

[Orange_Beard]

Where is the "If the sun comes up tomorrow I want Cutler to start"

[Northman]

You forgot:

Moron Bronco fan: let's throw in a rookie.
Smart Bronco fan: Why? we're winning.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but Plummer's stats suck
Smart Bronco fan:Ummm....we're winning.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but I like stats.
Smart Bronco fan:Boy the defense really sucked last game.
Moron Bronco fan: It was Jake's fault.
Smart Bronco fan:Umm the offense scored 31 points.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but he fumbled.
Smart Bronco fan:Umm.Manning was scoring all day. Did it really matter if the ball was at the 10 or at the 40?
Moron Bronco fan:Cutler wouldn't of fumbled.
Smart Bronco fan:Really? A rookie?
Moron Bronco fan:My cat is my only friend.




I at least give you credit. You realize your a moron so you get kudos from me.:thumbsup:

[freak6]

I for one am hoping Jake Plummer gets injured asap ^5, nothing to bad, just enough so that he is out for the season, hopefully not to painful, but whatever it takes. Then I hope we lose the rest of our games so we can draft Ted :yep:Ginn with our first overall pick, and send Old Man Rod out :deadhorseto pasture. Then, if we can just fire Coyer and trade Champ Bailey for Randy:super: Moss, I think we'll finally have a shot at winning a championship again.
:hitself:

[troya900]

You forgot:

Moron Bronco fan: let's throw in a rookie.
Smart Bronco fan: Why? we're winning.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but Plummer's stats suck
Smart Bronco fan:Ummm....we're winning.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but I like stats.
Smart Bronco fan:Boy the defense really sucked last game.
Moron Bronco fan: It was Jake's fault.
Smart Bronco fan:Umm the offense scored 31 points.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but he fumbled.
Smart Bronco fan:Umm.Manning was scoring all day. Did it really matter if the ball was at the 10 or at the 40?
Moron Bronco fan:Cutler wouldn't of fumbled.
Smart Bronco fan:Really? A rookie?
Moron Bronco fan:My cat is my only friend.

And this is exactly what makes me laugh about the plummer supporters. We're winning lalalalallalalala....I don't see all those terrible passes....lalalalalalalalalalala....I don't see a QB that has the worst productivity at of all but like 1 other QB...lalalalalalala. Talk about burying your head in the sand. When are people going to hold a guy responsible for his piss ass poor play when you got a guy behind him w/ incredible tools who we MOVED UP in the draft for to specifically take over for Plummer. Yeah we all would've liked to sit him for a year and plummer to play like he did last year, but he's not he's simply playing freaking terrible.

[broncos_mtnman]

Why wait?

Start him before the PITT game.

:yayaya:

[Rigs11]

And this is exactly what makes me laugh about the plummer supporters. We're winning lalalalallalalala....I don't see all those terrible passes....lalalalalalalalalalala....I don't see a QB that has the worst productivity at of all but like 1 other QB...lalalalalalala. Talk about burying your head in the sand. When are people going to hold a guy responsible for his piss ass poor play when you got a guy behind him w/ incredible tools who we MOVED UP in the draft for to specifically take over for Plummer. Yeah we all would've liked to sit him for a year and plummer to play like he did last year, but he's not he's simply playing freaking terrible.

Hey genius can we get into the playoffs based on our Qb's rating come playoff time?Can we get into the playoffs based on wether our Qb has a rocket arm?No. It comes down to wins.You're the one living in lala land.

[troya900]

Hey genius can we get into the playoffs based on our Qb's rating come playoff time?Can we get into the playoffs based on wether our Qb has a rocket arm?No. It comes down to wins.You're the one living in lala land.

And you are simply giving credit where it is NOT due. If the defense plays like it did in the 5 wins we have the rest of the season you could prop a damn dead body up at QB and get into the playoffs. Sorry for wanting to hold a guy responsible for his repeatable piss poor play this year.

Edit: To add, I'd have loved to see plummer play like he did most of last year in the regular season and have him play out this year and have Cutler learn for the year behind him. At some point this season though w/ the repeatable piss poor play from plummer you have to realize we are just spinning our wheels with a guy that has 4 years in this offense and is getting worse.

[Dedhed]

You forgot:

Moron Bronco fan: let's throw in a rookie.
Smart Bronco fan: Why? we're winning.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but Plummer's stats suck
Smart Bronco fan:Ummm....we're winning.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but I like stats.
Smart Bronco fan:Boy the defense really sucked last game.
Moron Bronco fan: It was Jake's fault.
Smart Bronco fan:Umm the offense scored 31 points.
Moron Bronco fan:Yeah but he fumbled.
Smart Bronco fan:Umm.Manning was scoring all day. Did it really matter if the ball was at the 10 or at the 40?
Moron Bronco fan:Cutler wouldn't of fumbled.
Smart Bronco fan:Really? A rookie?
Moron Bronco fan:My cat is my only friend.

This post says it all about the mentality of the average Jake supporter. Does it not?

[Popps]

This post says it all about the mentality of the average Jake supporter. Does it not?

Huh?

So, the 9 posts before it saying the exact same thing, only inverted... and less funny were somehow intelligent?

O.K.

[Popps]

Interesting.... poll still shows about 2 to 1 in favor of showing some patience with the QB situation while we're winning.

[Rigs11]

This post says it all about the mentality of the average Jake supporter. Does it not?

And this type of post shows the IQ of a Cutler supporter.Brilliant post by the way..What are you 60?

[Rigs11]

And you are simply giving credit where it is NOT due. If the defense plays like it did in the 5 wins we have the rest of the season you could prop a damn dead body up at QB and get into the playoffs. Sorry for wanting to hold a guy responsible for his repeatable piss poor play this year.

Edit: To add, I'd have loved to see plummer play like he did most of last year in the regular season and have him play out this year and have Cutler learn for the year behind him. At some point this season though w/ the repeatable piss poor play from plummer you have to realize we are just spinning our wheels with a guy that has 4 years in this offense and is getting worse.

Ah. I love the IF argument.IF memory serves me right, Plummer gave us more than enough points to win last week. It was the defense that chocked in the second half.IF....

[troya900]

Interesting.... poll still shows about 2 to 1 in favor of showing some patience with the QB situation while we're winning.

I don't understand how you come up with 2 to 1. I would consider change after Steelers or Oakland in the same camp which is 57 people that don't seem to have much patience at all. I see the Jake or bust, wait till out of playoff race and wait another year at 66 (I seen some Chief and Charger fan votes so I don't count them). And I'm not including other. So 57 to 66 that sure as heck doesn't look like 2 to 1 to me.

[troya900]

Ah. I love the IF argument.IF memory serves me right, Plummer gave us more than enough points to win last week. It was the defense that chocked in the second half.IF....

I don't know why you are using that argument. The IF is specifically for the defense and the defense is the main factor of our 5 wins. There is no if about plummer he HAS played like pure crap. The only IF there is for plummer is IF he can actually start playing like a real NFL QB.

[NFLBRONCO]

I picked other IF Shanny puts in Cutler I'll be for it. I still think only way Shanny might switch is if we lose to Pitt and to Oakland. I don't think Shanny will switch QB's as fast most think.

[broncocalijohn]

This poll question is incomplete. If Plummer has a game like he did vs Indy, then there is no way that you change Qbs. Why u started this beyond me but you got 7 pages. havent read but i wonder how O4L feels about this topic.

[Popps]

I don't understand how you come up with 2 to 1.

47 people voted he should be swapped out right now.

91 voted for other options which involve NOT swapping him out right now.

True, not quite 2-1.

My bad.....

1.93617021227............ to 1.

[Popps]

This poll question is incomplete. If Plummer has a game like he did vs Indy, then there is no way that you change Qbs. .

To me, that was the "other" option. Because, as we saw against Indy... despite popular belief, we can get a good game out of our QB and still lose.
There's this little detail called a "defense" some people aren't familiar with around here.

Why u started this beyond me

The poll was apparently started to address something I said. Problem is, it had nothing to do with what I said.

I think it was also posted to prove a point, which also backfired to the tune of 2-1.

havent read but i wonder how O4L feels about this topic.

:rofl:

Jake is over the top, no question. But, there's also NO question he's hardcore fan. You get the idea that he probably needs to take a walk to cool off after we lose. I'll take a fan like that any day over the passive, ho-hum if we win or lose type that we've seen lately... whether I agree with his position on our current QB or not.

[troya900]

47 people voted he should be swapped out right now.

91 voted for other options which involve NOT swapping him out right now.

True, not quite 2-1.

My bad.....

1.93617021227............ to 1.

That's quite shady considering you are counting votes of people who would toss plummer out one game after pitt with people who want to see cutler sit another year after this (which is really ridiculous by the way). Not to mention the pole itself doesn't even say RIGHT NOW it says if plummer stinks it up against pitt, but I'll let you keep your 2 to 1 statistic.

[Atlas]

I'm happy Jake played well against the Colts defense. The number one reason I'm happy for that is that the Colts are one of the worst teams against the pass in the league. Right now, they're ranked 30th overall in percentage of completions against them (http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2006/regular?sort_col_1=4&_1:col_1=6).

How excited am I supposed to get that Jake managed to actually look like a Pro quarterback against one of the worst passing defenses in the league? Yeah, it was great to see him complete 13 solid passes against them. But this week, we're facing a real defense-- the second rated defense in intercepting the ball. Hopefully the third worst defense in the game gave Jake enough of a warm-up that he can go out there and get us 13 more good completions.

OK so Jake looked great game against a bad defense!! Well, instead of people saying Jake has turned the corner and had a breakout game they are still saying "when do we replace him?" He wasn't the problem against the Colts. I feel stupid argueing this with a bunch of idiots that don't know any better.

[watermock]

I just made the poll.. You should do democratic polls Popps.

94 votes say pull him if he dumps the Oakland game.

Do you see the pull Jake option?

Why not look at the poll obvectively?

I gave people options becaus I'm not monomanical.

What I see is about 70 to 21. about removing him or potntially removing him.

So your going to say conditinals count?

You want a straight up count yes or no Popps.

That make you happy?

If he stinks it up I'.ll make it a straight up or down vote. I hope I don't have to.

[watermock]

If Jake Behaves, I will still have another Poll.

We all know how he owns Pittburg.

[Popps]

I just made the poll.. You should do democratic polls Popps.

94 votes say pull him if he dumps the Oakland game.

Do you see the pull Jake option?

Why not look at the poll obvectively?

I gave people options becaus I'm not monomanical.

What I see is about 70 to 21. about removing him or potntially removing him.

So your going to say conditinals count?

You want a straight up count yes or no Popps.

That make you happy?

If he stinks it up I'.ll make it a straight up or down vote. I hope I don't have to.


Wow.

[watermock]

wow away.

[Dedhed]

Huh?

So, the 9 posts before it saying the exact same thing, only inverted... and less funny were somehow intelligent?

O.K.
I was referring to the inability to avoid name calling, and the blatant hypersensitivity.

[Dedhed]

And this type of post shows the IQ of a Cutler supporter.Brilliant post by the way..What are you 60?

Are you implying that there's a direct corelation between age and IQ, or just unable to express yourself clearly?

[Northman]

Ah. I love the IF argument.IF memory serves me right, Plummer gave us more than enough points to win last week. It was the defense that chocked in the second half.IF....


And just on cue you already forgot about the other 6 games where the defense played exceptionally well. Your totally ****ing clueless.

[BroncoFanCam]

OK so Jake looked great game against a bad defense!! Well, instead of people saying Jake has turned the corner and had a breakout game they are still saying "when do we replace him?" He wasn't the problem against the Colts. I feel stupid argueing this with a bunch of idiots that don't know any better.You must have EXCEPTIONALLY low standards if you consider that last game by Jake "great", and you obviously have no idea in the least what actual greatness is (actual as opposed to perceived).

If you had, you would know better than to keep bringing that nonsense up.

:loopy:

[troya900]

I don't even really know why people are arguing about the way Plummer played against the Colts. He did pretty well considering the run was working so good the second half he didn't really have to pass. This game though just proves that even if Jake plays pretty damn well this team can still lose. Imagine if he played a stinker game like he has damn near every game this season. That would have been a painful blowout like the playoff losses against the colts. I wish I could believe that Plummer would keep playing like he did against the colts, but it's fairly obvious when Jake plays good defenses that keep him in the pocket the offense is pretty much doomed to failure.

[broncobum6162]

Ah. I love the IF argument.IF memory serves me right, Plummer gave us more than enough points to win last week. It was the defense that chocked in the second half.IF....

He also committed the key turnover in the 3rd quarter that totally swung the momentum in Indys favor. Indy up 20-14 and 3rd quarter isn't even 1/2 over.
He's famous for doing that at crititcal times.

[Rigs11]

And just on cue you already forgot about the other 6 games where the defense played exceptionally well. Your totally ****ing clueless.

Nah, being totally fvcking clueless requires the moronic assessment that putting in a rookie is going to magically fix everything.The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" game.If I can recall the Defense sucked last week. Jake antd the offense finnally step it up and you're still not happy.Sucks to be you.

[Broncojef]

Nah, being totally f***ing clueless requires the moronic assessment that putting in a rookie is going to magically fix everything.The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" game.If I can recall the Defense sucked last week. Jake antd the offense finnally step it up and you're still not happy.Sucks to be you.

Yeah jake really stepped up with the fumble on his own 10 yard line to let the Colts and manning back in the game. Whenever we need a true leader Jake steps on it. Lets not kid ourselves Jake will play until the season is over in Shanny's mind and then we'll see Cutler come in. 5-3, 5-4, 5-5 not sure when it will happen but when even guys like you have had enough then we will see the change.

[Popps]

That's quite shady considering you are counting votes of people who would toss plummer out one game after pitt with people who want to see cutler sit another year after this (which is really ridiculous by the way). Not to mention the pole itself doesn't even say RIGHT NOW it says if plummer stinks it up against pitt, but I'll let you keep your 2 to 1 statistic.

That's good, because it's 100% accurate. Sorry you don't enjoy it. I didn't make the poll.

[Popps]

He also committed the key turnover in the 3rd quarter that totally swung the momentum in Indys favor. Indy up 20-14 and 3rd quarter isn't even 1/2 over.
He's famous for doing that at crititcal times.

Plummer has had plenty of bad games. Sunday wasn't one of them.

As for the turnover, it was a forced fumble on a sack.

Our defense should try that some time. Great things can happen when you pick up opposing QBs and body-slam them to the ground.

Beyond that, momentum was absolutely not "swung" in Indy's direction. We took the lead two times after that, and then tied it up at the end. Our defense managed to piss away THREE MORE chances to win the game.

Again, if people don't like the QB, that's cool. Just be accurate with your posts. Momentum was not remotely swung by the forced fumble, and we took the lead AFTER that happened.

[Cito Pelon]

Yeah jake really stepped up with the fumble on his own 10 yard line to let the Colts and manning back in the game. Whenever we need a true leader Jake steps on it. Lets not kid ourselves Jake will play until the season is over in Shanny's mind and then we'll see Cutler come in. 5-3, 5-4, 5-5 not sure when it will happen but when even guys like you have had enough then we will see the change.

You ready to pack up and go home already?

[Cito Pelon]

Plummer has had plenty of bad games. Sunday wasn't one of them.

As for the turnover, it was a forced fumble on a sack.

Our defense should try that some time. Great things can happen when you pick up opposing QBs and body-slam them to the ground.

Beyond that, momentum was absolutely not "swung" in Indy's direction. We took the lead two times after that, and then tied it up at the end. Our defense managed to piss away THREE MORE chances to win the game.

Again, if people don't like the QB, that's cool. Just be accurate with your posts. Momentum was not remotely swung by the forced fumble, and we took the lead AFTER that happened.

DO NOT interfere with the negativity! Phweeeeeeeeet, unsportsmanlike conduct! Maybe you're approaching this wrongly - you must start with the assumption that an NFL team has to trot out a potential HOF QB to be title-worthy. Of course, that means the rest of the team is so bad the team absolutely needs an HOF QB to pull their asses out of mediocrity.

[Popps]

You ready to pack up and go home already?

Yea, apparently we're 5-5 already. Guess there's no need to watch the next few games.

[Northman]

Nah, being totally f***ing clueless requires the moronic assessment that putting in a rookie is going to magically fix everything.The NFL is a "what have you done for me lately" game.If I can recall the Defense sucked last week. Jake antd the offense finnally step it up and you're still not happy.Sucks to be you.


Actually, i was pretty content as we are still 5-2. It was the Jake brigade that was whining and crying all week. So in other words, must suck to be YOU. Go cry in your wheaties elsewhere poser.

[REB]

We'll see.......

[broncobum6162]

Plummer has had plenty of bad games. Sunday wasn't one of them.

As for the turnover, it was a forced fumble on a sack.

Our defense should try that some time. Great things can happen when you pick up opposing QBs and body-slam them to the ground.

Beyond that, momentum was absolutely not "swung" in Indy's direction. We took the lead two times after that, and then tied it up at the end. Our defense managed to piss away THREE MORE chances to win the game.

Again, if people don't like the QB, that's cool. Just be accurate with your posts. Momentum was not remotely swung by the forced fumble, and we took the lead AFTER that happened.

We had zero momentum in that 3rd quarter. We went in at halftime w/ a 14-6 lead and we let them right back in. We had a quick 3 and out. They scored in 6 plays and then on our ensuing possesion we fumble on our own ten. How in the heck don't you call that momentum in Indys direction. They went from being down 14-6 to being up 21-14 in less than 1/2 of a quarter.

[Blueflame]

Interesting.... poll still shows about 2 to 1 in favor of showing some patience with the QB situation while we're winning.

The conclusion one can draw from those numbers can vary wildly, Popps. To me, it looks like the numbers support the contention that Broncos fans are overwhelmingly dissatisfied with our QB's performance to date this season and simply want him to play better... and if he can't/won't improve (and soon), they would support ushering in the change that is inevitable regardless of anything Plummer says or does...sooner rather than later.

[BroncoFanCam]

The conclusion one can draw from those numbers can vary wildly, Popps. To me, it looks like the numbers support the contention that Broncos fans are overwhelmingly dissatisfied with our QB's performance to date this season and simply want him to play better... and if he can't/won't improve (and soon), they would support ushering in the change that is inevitable regardless of anything Plummer says or does...sooner rather than later.

Shhhhhhhh!!!!

You might taint the opacity of his jake-goggles.

[denvernut1]

lets see jay air it out

[Popps]

The conclusion one can draw from those numbers can vary wildly, Popps. To me, it looks like the numbers support the contention that Broncos fans are overwhelmingly dissatisfied with our QB's performance to date this season and simply want him to play better.

Ummm... right. They're also 2-1 in favor of not benching Plummer if we lose, which we didn't.

Oh well!

:wave:

[Rigs11]

Actually, i was pretty content as we are still 5-2. It was the Jake brigade that was whining and crying all week. So in other words, must suck to be YOU. Go cry in your wheaties elsewhere poser.

16/27, 227 yards, 3 TD's, 0 INT's

[Blueflame]

Ummm... right. They're also 2-1 in favor of not benching Plummer if we lose, which we didn't.

Oh well!

:wave:

Most do want Plummer to remain as our starter, giving Cutler time to become familiar with our offensive system. They just want him to play better (like he did for the most part today). It's within his power to silence all the criticism... all he has to do is play better football.

[troya900]

Most do want Plummer to remain as our starter, giving Cutler time to become familiar with our offensive system. They just want him to play better (like he did for the most part today). It's within his power to silence all the criticism... all he has to do is play better football.

Yup, I'm gladly eating the crow today. It's not about just wanting to see Cutler come in. It's wanting the QB to make some plays which he didn't for the most part before Indy. He made a bunch of great plays today and I want Cutler to sit for the year as long as plummer keeps it up.

[BroncoFanCam]

Yup, I'm gladly eating the crow today. It's not about just wanting to see Cutler come in. It's wanting the QB to make some plays which he didn't for the most part before Indy. He made a bunch of great plays today and I want Cutler to sit for the year as long as plummer keeps it up.Exactly...

Keep it up Jake, and all of this talk will vanish right before your eyes.