View Full Version : If we meet Indy again,
epa86b@netzero
11-01-2006, 05:47 AM
If we are getting no pressure with the front four, what adjustment's would you make?
I would:
Force Peyton to throw at Champ by bring the blitz from Darrent’s side of the field while having the opposite end and tackle not rush and put there hands up at the line.
Or
I would mimic New England’s tactics. I would setup in a 4-3 with Lang and Chuk on the ends. Once the ball is hiked, I would have the end closest to the slot receiver, tight end, or on the side of the back drop into coverage.
Or
When we blitz, bump and run the receivers.
Conklin
11-01-2006, 06:01 AM
if we meet indy again, i'll be there and screaming louder than ever...afterall, i'll let the coaches do their job and i'll just do mine better :-D
Barry Ramey
11-01-2006, 07:31 AM
Whichever tactic is used, there must be a better disguise what the coverage is. Just like watching the Pat-Viking game. The Pats had a veteran QB in Brad Johnson all confused where to go with the ball. And they have done that to Manning constantly the last few years. it will be interesting to see how Manning performs against the Pat defense, who will bring pressure, but also figure to once again disguise their coverages and try to confuse Manning, which has worked well in the past. That's what the Broncos must to. Beats pretty much just sitting in a deep zone and slowly getting picked apart all game long.
Willynowei
11-01-2006, 07:35 AM
If Denver plays indy again, i hope Coyer throws in some blitzing and press coverage right up the middle. Manning does not side step rushes at all, he just throws into them. if you can hit him from the front, He'll take the hit and probably deliver a few bad balls.
bronco militia
11-01-2006, 07:41 AM
as long as Coyer is D-Coord, I never want to see the Broncos play the Colts again.
epa86b@netzero
11-01-2006, 07:50 AM
If Denver plays indy again, i hope Coyer throws in some blitzing and press coverage right up the middle. Manning does not side step rushes at all, he just throws into them. if you can hit him from the front, He'll take the hit and probably deliver a few bad balls.
I have seen NE bring pressure Manning from the middle. I don't think that the Bronocs middle blitz is overly effective. Actually, unless it is an all out blitz, i don't care for the Broncos blitz packages.
I mentioned pressure from Darrent's side for two reasons. IT would allow the blitzer to see the quick pass and to potentially know down the ball. In addition, it would almost force Manning to look more to Champ's side.
Last year, open my eyes to how very good Champ is. THis last game has solidified it and if a QB is going to attack my defense, I am going to make him throw toward Champs side even it not to his man.
cmhargrove
11-01-2006, 08:03 AM
What would happen if we let someone like Sam Brandon try to jam Reggie Wayne off the line for 2-3 seconds, then release him to the corner?
It seems that the defenses that do well against the Colts try to "punch them in the face" rather than finesse a good scheme.
I'm no D-coordinator, but it's just an observation.
"If we meet Indy again"
Call in sick???
Barry Ramey
11-01-2006, 08:40 AM
I think you're right. Physical defenses that play that way do tend to give the Colts problems. Heck, can't Darrent jam a receiver at the line once in awhile even if playing zone? Seems he plays so far off WR's and still got beat by Wayne deep a few times.
What would happen if we let someone like Sam Brandon try to jam Reggie Wayne off the line for 2-3 seconds, then release him to the corner?
It seems that the defenses that do well against the Colts try to "punch them in the face" rather than finesse a good scheme.
I'm no D-coordinator, but it's just an observation.
400HZ
11-01-2006, 10:20 AM
San Diego and Pitt beat Indy last year by getting steady pressure, harrassing, and sacking Manning all game off 4 man, and every now and then 5 man pass rushes. I don't think it matters how confusing your coverage scheme is, Manning is going to find something to exploit if he has time to throw. Therefore - don't give him time to throw, and you can win. I'm surprised you guys didn't pick up on that when you played them.
In the two real losses Indy had last year, it was the EXACT same gameplan that beat them. Not to talk sh*t, but I don't think you guys have the personnel to beat Indy. You need some good pass rushers. Why didn't you guys blitz Lynch or someone? It wouldn't have mattered if you'd had 2 Champ Bailey clones in coverage, Peyaton still would have been able to hit his receivers if you gave him all day to throw. IMO your gameplan was retarded.
jmz313
11-01-2006, 10:26 AM
Its all about pressuring Manning with only 4 rushers. If we can't do that, just pray they turn it over once and we score every drive.
Bronco Billy
11-01-2006, 10:27 AM
I would like to see the secondary jam the receivers at the line to throw off the timing. The Colts adjusted too well at half time to our "prevent" defense.
The Pats blitz up the middle successfully because they disguise it so well. We won't be able to blitz anywhere if the Colts read blitz before the snap. BTW, has Belichick come out with Cliff Notes on the Colts yet? We could use them.
Bronco Billy
11-01-2006, 10:29 AM
Its all about pressuring Manning with only 4 rushers.
Agree, but we need to give the DL more than 2 seconds to get there.
Popps
11-01-2006, 10:30 AM
Watching the NFL Replay again right now.
Williams and Bailey are lined up about 7 yards off their receivers with no intention of jamming them.
Just an observation. Dr. Bronc has posted about this a couple time... but you wonder at some point if we can't get to the QB, why we don't at least try to slow down the WRs.
Willynowei
11-01-2006, 10:31 AM
San Diego and Pitt beat Indy last year by getting steady pressure, harrassing, and sacking Manning all game off 4 man, and every now and then 5 man pass rushes. I don't think it matters how confusing your coverage scheme is, Manning is going to find something to exploit if he has time to throw. Therefore - don't give him time to throw, and you can win. I'm surprised you guys didn't pick up on that when you played them.
In the two real losses Indy had last year, it was the EXACT same gameplan that beat them. Not to talk sh*t, but I don't think you guys have the personnel to beat Indy. You need some good pass rushers. Why didn't you guys blitz Lynch or someone? It wouldn't have mattered if you'd had 2 Champ Bailey clones in coverage, Peyaton still would have been able to hit his receivers if you gave him all day to throw. IMO your gameplan was retarded.
You made a very good point with broken up english and poor logic. Nevertheless what you are saying is 100%, even for a Dolt fan.
We didn't have the personell to beat Manning with the scheme we used. If we used a different scheme it might have given us a chance considering the way the offense played. In either case this defense doesn't have the personell to stop or even slow down the colts with any consistency.
We need pass rushers. Preferably a stud gap shooter with similar characteristics to some guy like Tommie Harriss in CHicago. To complement that we could also use a stud Dend.
We were two players short of a superbowl last year, bringing in Jay Cutler and Javon certainly will help the team down the road, but those were not the two stud D-linemen we needed.
TheSportsGuru
11-01-2006, 10:36 AM
If we paly them again I hope we convert to the 3-4, since that is the only defense that seems to give Peyton any problems....
labronx
11-01-2006, 10:57 AM
You made a very good point with broken up english and poor logic.
wow....
kamakazi_kal
11-01-2006, 11:38 AM
go tanya harding on payton's knee............sorry peanut but you gotta go down
Every year it's the same sh*t.
1) Before the draft and during free agency, people clamor for some moves to improve the pass rush.
2) Nothing significant is done in this regard.
3) People get upset and the Bronco apologists step up to toe the company line: "How would you like it if we overpaid for so-and-so?"; "Last time I checked Shanny was coach, not you."; "Statistically, we were blah blah blah last season..."
4) The noise dies down. Our defense plays well the first few games of the season. The apologists take any sign of life from the D-Line as vindication that things are okay.
5) We get exposed by a good team, partially or primarily because of a bad or non-existent pass rush.
Seriously, people. How many times do we have to get beat by Indy before it'll sink in? Our defense can be pretty good. And it would be so much better with some impact players up front. What good does it have to have such a decent secondary if you're gonna give a good QB like Manning all the time he needs?
And don't get me wrong. I like many of our recent moves and the offense was due for a serious upgrade. But we've half-assed the D-Line for many years now.
SteveTensi13
11-01-2006, 12:00 PM
Pressure up the middle, right in melon heads face. Alas, poor Coyer, is not big into pressure defense. It is more like a containment defense. So I see more of the same should we meet again.
Popps
11-01-2006, 12:51 PM
Every year it's the same sh*t.
1) Before the draft and during free agency, people clamor for some moves to improve the pass rush.
2) Nothing significant is done in this regard.
3) People get upset and the Bronco apologists step up to toe the company line: "How would you like it if we overpaid for so-and-so?"; "Last time I checked Shanny was coach, not you."; "Statistically, we were blah blah blah last season..."
4) The noise dies down. Our defense plays well the first few games of the season. The apologists take any sign of life from the D-Line as vindication that things are okay.
5) We get exposed by a good team, partially or primarily because of a bad or non-existent pass rush.
Seriously, people. How many times do we have to get beat by Indy before it'll sink in? Our defense can be pretty good. And it would be so much better with some impact players up front. What good does it have to have such a decent secondary if you're gonna give a good QB like Manning all the time he needs?
Wow, that is an easy nomination for post of the year.
The only thing you forgot to add was #6. Blame whoever is playing QB at the time for loss, replace QB... then expect nonexistent pass-rush to magically appear.
B-Love
11-01-2006, 02:26 PM
A concept rarely used in the NFL anymore but used to be a staple of High School and College Football.
Just as Urlacher existed as a "Monster Back" in College Ball, i.e. a LB/DB hybrid, the Nosebacker is a combination Nose Tackle/Middle Linebacker.
There are instances in NFL history where the Nosebacker is used for one simple thing.
In obvious Passing Situations the Nosebacker lines across from the Center, but stays upright and lines up 3-4 yards away from the Center.
Off the snap of the ball, the Nosebacker's job is to just pummel, pummel and pummel some more at the will of the Offensive Center, and to his his best to collapse the Middle of the pass pocket.
I have several videos where this has been done, but the most obvious success story was the 1980 Divisional Playoff between Buffalo and San Diego. The Bills moved toughman Sherman White from his standard RDE position to "Nosebacker" in obvious Passing Situations against dan Fouts. In 1980, Fouts was the equivalent to what Manning is today, though not quite as lethal.
Even though San Diego pulled out a late win, Sherman White destroyed Chargers Center Don Macek all day, and wreaked havoc on Fouts on several occasions. Fouts, who owned the NFL that year threw 4 Interceptions and was sacked several times.
Nothing fancy, start with a 2 pt. Pass Rushers stance from 3-4 yards away. A full running start and do not pick any Center Guard gaps!!!!
Just Bull Rush the **** out of the Center, with the best LARGE physical specimen you have on the team.
This is a fairly outdated NFL concept, but we have tried all other approaches to Manning and nothing else has worked.
bronco militia
11-01-2006, 02:28 PM
go tanya harding on payton's knee............sorry peanut but you gotta go down
bwgahahaha
OrangeShadow
11-01-2006, 03:18 PM
San Diego and Pitt beat Indy last year by getting steady pressure, harrassing, and sacking Manning all game off 4 man, and every now and then 5 man pass rushes. I don't think it matters how confusing your coverage scheme is, Manning is going to find something to exploit if he has time to throw. Therefore - don't give him time to throw, and you can win. I'm surprised you guys didn't pick up on that when you played them.
In the two real losses Indy had last year, it was the EXACT same gameplan that beat them. Not to talk sh*t, but I don't think you guys have the personnel to beat Indy. You need some good pass rushers. Why didn't you guys blitz Lynch or someone? It wouldn't have mattered if you'd had 2 Champ Bailey clones in coverage, Peyaton still would have been able to hit his receivers if you gave him all day to throw. IMO your gameplan was retarded.
I hate to admit it but i to dont think we have the personnel to beat indy
azbroncfan
11-01-2006, 03:45 PM
San Diego and Pitt beat Indy last year by getting steady pressure, harrassing, and sacking Manning all game off 4 man, and every now and then 5 man pass rushes. I don't think it matters how confusing your coverage scheme is, Manning is going to find something to exploit if he has time to throw. Therefore - don't give him time to throw, and you can win. I'm surprised you guys didn't pick up on that when you played them.
In the two real losses Indy had last year, it was the EXACT same gameplan that beat them. Not to talk sh*t, but I don't think you guys have the personnel to beat Indy. You need some good pass rushers. Why didn't you guys blitz Lynch or someone? It wouldn't have mattered if you'd had 2 Champ Bailey clones in coverage, Peyaton still would have been able to hit his receivers if you gave him all day to throw. IMO your gameplan was retarded.
Exactly 100 percent agreed. I have always maintained Denver is a great matchup for Indy and its obvious with the numbers payton's put up. Probably 1200 yards and 10+ TD's with no picks last three games. NFL is all about matchups and denver doesn't matchup well. Going 3-4 wouldn't make much difference because Denver still lacks a player who can pressure like Merriman or Porter.
PatsWin2002
11-01-2006, 03:55 PM
I hate to admit it but i to dont think we have the personnel to beat indy
I think you do. All it would've taken was 1 turnover.
If your D plays a little more physical and takes a few more chances to get Manning on his back then you're on the right track.
Throw that first gameplan away. You gotta throw stuff at Manning that he didn't see on film.
It's no secret he makes the whole thing go.....not Wayne or Addai or Harrison.
Get Manning out of his game and you're on your way. He's a bigshot and will make mistakes when forced. You guys never forced him. He was way too comfortable back there.
Thinking Indy is going to beat you every time is as silly as thinking the Patriots are no threat to you. :P
Atwater His Ass
11-01-2006, 04:11 PM
6 points in the first half, 28 in the 2nd. Bottom line is the Colts made adjustments at halftime and we didn't know wtf to do. You could tell half way through the 3rd quarter when we didn't do anything to slow them down we would probably lose.
We have the personnel to beat Indy, we just don't how to respond when they make changes, which points to our coaching staff having a SERIOUS problem with making adjustments on the fly. It's been that way for years, especially with the defense.
DB84FAN
11-01-2006, 04:14 PM
Plain and simple... we cannot rush with 4 or 5 and get to peyton anyway. So let champ do this thing.. have 2 cb's on reggie.. and just rush with 3. Anyway we cannot get to peyton.. what difference does it make whether we rush 3 or 4... atleast we have two men on reggie and nick/john dropping back or going after clark..
There running attack anyway ran for 173. i dont think we will do worse than that. Because they got 7 yrds each time. Atleast we will take peyton out of the game.... lol
minibronco
11-01-2006, 05:33 PM
Whichever tactic is used, there must be a better disguise what the coverage is. Just like watching the Pat-Viking game. The Pats had a veteran QB in Brad Johnson all confused where to go with the ball. And they have done that to Manning constantly the last few years. it will be interesting to see how Manning performs against the Pat defense, who will bring pressure, but also figure to once again disguise their coverages and try to confuse Manning, which has worked well in the past. That's what the Broncos must to. Beats pretty much just sitting in a deep zone and slowly getting picked apart all game long.
Seriously. On Sunday, I think Manning spent a record low amount of play clock dissecting our D. He probably recognized everything.