So, what's your opinion on Coyer?

[Popps]

After another big-game defensive collapse, there are a lot of theories going around on who to blame... personnel, staff, scheme, etc.

Coyer's name keeps coming up. So, let's get a feel for the opinion around here. What's the verdict on this guy. It's coming up on 4 years he's been in charge of this defense.

Are we better than when he took over? How good of a job is he doing? Are we where we wanted to be after promoting him to DC in 2003?

[epicSocialism4tw]

I voted "fair" because of the long unsatiated disappointment I have felt in having zero pass rush when it matters most. I know that it's not entirely his fault that the talent on the line isnt up to snuff, but at the same time a coworker or an employee can lobby for things that he thinks are entirely neccesary. A pass rush is necessary. Coyer hasnt brought us any closer to the realization of an effective pass rush. Maybe he should get a sales pitch together. Or maybe he's Shanahan's pencil pusher.

[SoCalBronco]

He's an outstanding coordinator. I'm glad we've got him. Despite this last game, I support him 100%. He's done some fine things with our defense the last several years, without alot of quality players at certain positions each year.

I just wish he would incorporate DJ more into the defense. I am sick and tired of seeing him rarely on the field in the second half. This **** has to stop. Sam Brandon does not add anything special to the equation.

On the whole though, I am very grateful to have Coyer as our DC.

[Taco John]

He's the best coordinator we've had since Wade Phillips. Without having any dominant pass rushers, he crafted one of the best defenses in the league. Having one of the best defenses in the game without any dominant pass rushers, we couldn't expect any more from him at this stage.

I can't wait to see what he can do once we get some dominant pass rushers in there. He's the kind of hard nosed coach that I love to have on defense.

[Popps]

I voted fair, but I still like the guy. I'm in the camp that thinks his defenses fall apart in big games.... but it's not necessarily his fault. I only think you can "scheme" around a lack of talent up front for so long. I think he does about as well as he could with what he has. Though, some of the adjustment criticisms may be warranted.

To me he's a project in the works. Some very good results, some bad ones... but visible potential.

[fontaine]

I have no complaints. Coyer and the defense are the biggest reason we've won 5 games so far.

That defense held the Colts to just two field goals in the first half so he had his gameplan down.

Unfortunately, the Colts made good adjustments in the half and if you're Larry Coyer and the D has held Manning and co. to just 6 points in the first half you don't risk making changes. Go with what's worked so far, but as I said, give credit to the Colts. They made adjustments and executed in the 2nd half.

[Northman]

I chose Fair although the options were pretty limited. He's taken a subpar Dline and still managed to create a good defense despite the collapse against the Colts.

[Kaylore]

Here's some perspective.

At the end of the '04 season we had a dearth of turnvovers. Shanahan asks him to fix that. After making it a point of focuse that offseason, the Broncos explode and are one of the top teams in turnovers in 2005.

At the end of the 2005 season the Broncos see that they struggled to get off the field on third downs and redzone defense. Once again, after addressing the issue in the offseason, Larry Coyer has made us one of the top five teams in third down defense and redzone defense.

Now a lot of you are pissed about the meltdown last game. I think most of your concerns have more to do with the players we have than the scheme. I didn't like the game plan either, but that is something that Shanahan put in. Yes, Coyer answers to Shanahan, so there's that. The other end is that it's not Coyer's fault we have some real avearge players on the front line. Until we can play a physical and disruptive game on the defensive side like we do on the offense we are going to get beat up by Manning.

Our spead and swarming abilirty is great against certain teams (The Patriots, for example) but what the other team is just as fast and super precise you need to disrupt their timing because they are going to outspeed you and not make mistakes. It's teams like that that we need the team to play physical and right now there is just too much "finesse" with this defense and not enough "I'll eat your face". That's not on Coyer because he has to play with the players they give him.

Anyway the point is that every offseason we have sucked at something and every offseason he's come through. The only thing he can't change is that our front four suck and until it does all that speed we have will get wasted.

[watermock]

We need to give that old crusty pipe smoker some damn help at the DE spot.

Anyone who blames Coyer doesn't understand he has to play the hand he's dealt with. You take a dominant QB, playing as well as any of all time, and a DL that is able to stop the run but has zero ability to pressure the QB, you have the perfect recipe for for giving up a 28 point second half that destroyed our bye week possibilty. I honestly don't know who to root for in the NE/Indy game.

[Mile High Shack]

he's average, completely average

I don't think any D coordinator couldn't do what he has done

[troya900]

We need to give that old crusty pipe smoker some damn help at the DE spot.

Anyone who blames Coyer doesn't understand he has to play the hand he's dealt with. You take a dominant QB, playing as well as any of all time, and a DL that is able to stop the run but has zero ability to pressure the QB, you have the perfect recipe for for giving up a 28 point second half that destroyed our bye week possibilty. I honestly don't know who to root for in the NE/Indy game.

Would have been nice if they could've stopped the run. They were getting gashed for like 5 or 6 yards every run. Wasn't the type of gashing that Denver did in the second half, but still it was enough to make it that much easier for the Colts offense.

[Turf Shaman]

Coyer has done an excellent job with what he's had to deal with, namely a mediocre front four since he's come here. Even with Brown and Pryce last year, the front four didn't generate enough pressure so the Broncos went with tons of blitzes last year. The fact that the Broncos haven't been able to generate pressure with the front 4, something that has been a problem since the playoff drubbings to the Colts yet still hasn't been addressed, falls on Shanahan, not Coyer.

[Rohirrim]

All I can say is that I hope our draft in April looks like this:

1. DE
2. DE
3. DE
4. DT

[ScottXray]

All I can say is that I hope our draft in April looks like this:

1. DE
2. DE
3. DE
4. DT

:thumbs: ;) :woowoo: What HE said!
Coyer has done fantastic with what tools he's got. Give him the full set, Shanny.

[Arkansas Bronco]

he's average, completely average

I don't think any D coordinator couldn't do what he has done

Pretty much my thoughts, I voted fair. I think this is a spot that we could upgrade but if we do I would like someone that is proven.

[Arkansas Bronco]

All I can say is that I hope our draft in April looks like this:

1. DE
2. DE
3. DE
4. DT

Slight change

1. DE
2. DT
3. DE
4. QB (we have to get a back up)

[fatcard]

No one would have voted anything other than Excellent had this poll been put up two days ago...

As the song says... "What a difference a day makes..."

[Bronco Bob]

Slight change

1. DE
2. DT
3. DE
4. QB (we have to get a back up)

Naw, why waste a pick on an unproven rookie QB? Just pick up a
servicable journeyman veteran from somewhere. KC seems to be doing
reasonably well with Huard, for example. Charlie Batch for the Steelers
too.

[Arkansas Bronco]

Naw, why waste a pick on an unproven rookie QB? Just pick up a
servicable journeyman veteran from somewhere. KC seems to be doing
reasonably well with Huard, for example. Charlie Batch for the Steelers
too.

Very good point and I must take my statement back (it was realy just a jab at Plummer lovers anyway). So OT or DE at #4 would be the choice.

[2KBack]

I said during the offseason that the scheme is flawed, and adjustments are going to be needed or they will get exposed again. It's nice that he makes adjust ents in the offseason, but those need to be made game to game or even half to half. Until he learns to be more fliexible with his gameplans he is going to be a guy who creates a very solid defense, then refuses to make the adjustsments that could make them good to great.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

All I can say is that I hope our draft in April looks like this:

1. DE
2. DE
3. DE
4. DT

I like that too, but it will be:

Speed Wr
RB
TE
OT

As I have said on other threads - ya gotta prop up the golden boy

[long beach bronco]

I gave him fair because when the chips are down Coyer can't adjust. Why did we continue to play a vanilla zone when it was constantly getting worked over by Manning? Why wasn't he putting 8 and 9 in the box to rattle Manning when it became obvious that the zone scheme was crap? Why was he laying the CB's way off of the receivers allowing the constant dink and dunk? That's what Solomon Wilcotts and the guys on Sirius was talking about yesterday, they didn't use their talent to the fullest. Coyer handicapped the defense by the scheme he was using, and Manning loved it.

[Barry Ramey]

I also voted fair since yes, he's done good things and the defense has ranked at worst in the middle since he's been around for the most part, but against really good offenses, he doesn't seem to have any idea what to do. You can't keep giving the same look, the good QB's will pick that apart. You can't send blitzers starting 10-15 yards away after the snap against an offense designed for the QB to get rid of the ball quickly, the blitzers don't have a chance to get there.

Adjustments are something that I also think he's weak at. Sure, if something is working, then don't fix what's not broken. But if something isn't working, seems a change needs to happen and not just be stubborn and keep going with something that isn't working.

[BroncoSoja]

lol I knew the Coyer bashers could not wait to drill this guy... His unit was the reason why we were 5-1, since he has been here I believe we have been in the Top 10 in defense in the NFL.. And yet the minute he and his Defense have a bad game Popps and his band come busting out of the woodwork.

[NFLBRONCO]

I know he needs more help but, I think he could alot better. Against good teams he struggles mightly. I think alot of DC's can do as good as he's done this year. I think Denver should replace him but, if they don't so be it.

[broncosteven]

Here's some perspective.

At the end of the '04 season we had a dearth of turnvovers. Shanahan asks him to fix that. After making it a point of focuse that offseason, the Broncos explode and are one of the top teams in turnovers in 2005.

At the end of the 2005 season the Broncos see that they struggled to get off the field on third downs and redzone defense. Once again, after addressing the issue in the offseason, Larry Coyer has made us one of the top five teams in third down defense and redzone defense.

Now a lot of you are pissed about the meltdown last game. I think most of your concerns have more to do with the players we have than the scheme. I didn't like the game plan either, but that is something that Shanahan put in. Yes, Coyer answers to Shanahan, so there's that. The other end is that it's not Coyer's fault we have some real avearge players on the front line. Until we can play a physical and disruptive game on the defensive side like we do on the offense we are going to get beat up by Manning.

Our spead and swarming abilirty is great against certain teams (The Patriots, for example) but what the other team is just as fast and super precise you need to disrupt their timing because they are going to outspeed you and not make mistakes. It's teams like that that we need the team to play physical and right now there is just too much "finesse" with this defense and not enough "I'll eat your face". That's not on Coyer because he has to play with the players they give him.

Anyway the point is that every offseason we have sucked at something and every offseason he's come through. The only thing he can't change is that our front four suck and until it does all that speed we have will get wasted.

Against Average Offenses he is Outstanding, but against Playoff teams he is FAIR.

He does what is asked but I have not seen him do him more than asked or make the average/subpar D-line players better or even mask the D's weaknesses in big games.

He has some nice blitz packages, he just cannot find the right time to use them to throw off a great team like indy or pitt last year. Timing is everything when deciding to blitz & it seems to me that every one knows when & who is coming when Denver does blitz. I put the fact that the blitzes get picked up on the players.

He would be a genius if he could upset a good teams timing & actually find a way to get Manrino's Jersey dirty for once.

[Barry Ramey]

I can't speak for others, but I've worried about how the defense has been given up easy completions in that soft zone all season and essentially just counting on teams to make a mistake.

But again, this defense has not helped the offense a lot considering if you look, the Broncos are one of the worst in starting field position for their offense. Actually, going into the Colt game, the Broncos were only ahead of the Steelers in that category.

So how many TD drives do people really expect in games when your offense is constantly starting at the 20 or worse? Sure, against a bad defense, can get some, but against a good defense, people think the offense can go 80+ yards for TD's multiple times every game? Just not going to happen.

So yes, the defense is not giving up a lot of TD's, but they give up a ton of yards in the passing game and either get field goals or punt with a short field and again, Bronco offense starting deep in own territory. Combine that with not much going on in the kick return game, and they don't get great field position even after scores either.

[Willynowei]

He's the best coordinator we've had since Wade Phillips. Without having any dominant pass rushers, he crafted one of the best defenses in the league. Having one of the best defenses in the game without any dominant pass rushers, we couldn't expect any more from him at this stage.

I can't wait to see what he can do once we get some dominant pass rushers in there. He's the kind of hard nosed coach that I love to have on defense.

having the best linebackers and corners in the league helps.

I'll say this. Coyer is a great fundamentals coach. Denver players swarm and hustle, this means that he is drilling discipline into their heads. Denver also pursues the run with discipline and with all running lanes covered, this is very important, and it shows with Coyer's Defense.

With that said, he's not belicheck, he's not john fox, he's not marvin lewis, Jim johnson, or my favorite: Monte Kiffin. Coyer's never come up with unbelievably clever schemes in any football game, except that punt rush he used against the Eagles. That was classic.

But even that, was suggested to Coyer by Shanahan and Kubiak, I think Shanny should get more involved with the defense. As hard working as coyer is, it takes some creativity and flat out smarts to come up with tricky schemes to coverup your major weaknesses - like the D-line.

Shanny works with Crap personell on offense year after year and delivers, sometimes the scheme can overcome poor personell, even if you would normally lose in the trenches.

[Tredici]

I think it's time to get rid of Bobby Turner. The running backs just aren't piling up enough yardage for me.

[Rohirrim]

I think it's time to get rid of Bobby Turner. The running backs just aren't piling up enough yardage for me.

That's enough of that talk! ;D

[Mile High Shack]

I think it's time to get rid of Bobby Turner. The running backs just aren't piling up enough yardage for me.

yeah, unlike Coyer's defenses though, the RBs can produce against good teams
;)

[Mile High Shack]

I can't speak for others, but I've worried about how the defense has been given up easy completions in that soft zone all season and essentially just counting on teams to make a mistake.

But again, this defense has not helped the offense a lot considering if you look, the Broncos are one of the worst in starting field position for their offense. Actually, going into the Colt game, the Broncos were only ahead of the Steelers in that category.

So how many TD drives do people really expect in games when your offense is constantly starting at the 20 or worse? Sure, against a bad defense, can get some, but against a good defense, people think the offense can go 80+ yards for TD's multiple times every game? Just not going to happen.

So yes, the defense is not giving up a lot of TD's, but they give up a ton of yards in the passing game and either get field goals or punt with a short field and again, Bronco offense starting deep in own territory. Combine that with not much going on in the kick return game, and they don't get great field position even after scores either.


it's not like people haven't been open against other teams we have played

I remember watching the Raiders game there in Denver and I saw dudes running wide open in the soft parts of the zone....the problem was, Oakland has a very bad QB running the show..(thankfully)...well that and the ocoodinator is clueless (oakland).

Teams have had their chances, but that is why those teams are average, they makes mistakes, but against playoff caliber teams, they generally don't make those same mistakes and that is when we get exposed

[Rohirrim]

I'll tell you one thing that surprises me. I haven't seen a single "Let's Change to the 3-4" thread this week. Way to go, Maners. :thumbs:

[fontaine]

yeah, unlike Coyer's defenses though, the RBs can produce against good teams
;)

Are you high?

B'more, New England, KC, STL all average over 20 points and have had no trouble scoring tons of points, except that is against our D.

EVERY SINGLE offense we've faced, Coyer and his D have held them to well below their average scoring points per game.

As a matter of fact that D was well on it's way to holding Indy in check after just 6 points in the first half, but give credit to Indy, they made adjustments and DWill had a very bad 2nd half.

Two quarters of football and Coyer's been hung out to dry! Unbelievable.

[SteveTensi13]

He's sort of a hybrid Ray Rhodes-Greg Robinson type!

[Mile High Shack]

Are you high?

B'more, New England, KC, STL all average over 20 points and have had no trouble scoring tons of points, except that is against our D.

EVERY SINGLE offense we've faced, Coyer and his D have held them to well below their average scoring points per game.

As a matter of fact that D was well on it's way to holding Indy in check after just 6 points in the first half, but give credit to Indy, they made adjustments and DWill had a very bad 2nd half.

Two quarters of football and Coyer's been hung out to dry! Unbelievable.

honestly, do you really think Baltimore has a good offense? c'mon...seriously

St. Louis was trying to run a new offensive system and they had failed to score a TD in the preaseason, after the game against us, they implemented more of the old offense Bulger was use to running....

KC was the first game with Huard as QB, so they were taking it conservative since they didn't know what they had

NE was still working out the kinks, they had lost both of their receivers from last year and only had Ben Watson left, the Bills shut them down too on the passing end, they are now running on full cylinders.

so no...I'm not high, I just deal in reality and realize throught Coyer's term here, he has been an average D coordinator, not the 2nd coming of the 85 Bears like some of you have thought.

[Tw0mey]

Before the Colts game I would have said good, put I put fair. Like every damn year against the Colts, we played soft, and got torn apart. Year after year after year this happens and I am thinking that we need a new D coordinator. We have too much talent on defense to play the way we do. Sad thing is I think I said the same exact thing last year against the Colts. How sad.

[broncosteven]

But again, this defense has not helped the offense a lot considering if you look, the Broncos are one of the worst in starting field position for their offense. Actually, going into the Colt game, the Broncos were only ahead of the Steelers in that category.

So how many TD drives do people really expect in games when your offense is constantly starting at the 20 or worse? Sure, against a bad defense, can get some, but against a good defense, people think the offense can go 80+ yards for TD's multiple times every game? Just not going to happen.

So yes, the defense is not giving up a lot of TD's, but they give up a ton of yards in the passing game and either get field goals or punt with a short field and again, Bronco offense starting deep in own territory. Combine that with not much going on in the kick return game, and they don't get great field position even after scores either.

This is a good point. I know our special teams are far from special but it is hard to field a punt that lands inside the 10 or even 15.

[Old Dude]

I think he's done reasonably well, but let's keep things in perspective.

Without going through all of it blow-by-blow, everyone knows that the Broncos have had most of their focus (in the draft in 2004 and 2005) and in free agency, (as well in decisions regarding re-signings of veterans) on acquiring defensive talent ever since the Portis-Bailey trade.

This defense should be performing at a high level, and most of the time it does.

[Popps]

All I can say is that I hope our draft in April looks like this:

1. DE
2. DE
3. DE
4. DT

Amen brother.

[PLOWHORSE]

At this point I have to say FAIR. A good DC would have ANTICIPATED what the Colts were going to do in the 2nd half. By shutting them down to 2 FGs in the 1st half even my 12 yr old nephew said "wait till Manning gets in at halftime and makes his adjustments".....Why couldn''t Coyer make the same prediction, and make his defense prepared for what eventually happened?

Think man think!!

[orinjkrush]

well i hate to put a silver lining on this cumulogranite flop, but we haven't shown [exposed] the Dolts anything.....for our rematch. if Coyer cant change mightily for that, then, tar and feathers seem apropos.

[long beach bronco]

If Manning and Co. can make the adjustments on us in the third qtr. then Coyer and Co. should have been able to make the adjustments on them in the fourth qtr. BUT THEY DID NOT.

[Barry Ramey]

You can probably about count on one hand the number of possessions the Bronco offense has started say past their 35 yard line so far this season. That's not very good to say the least.