On my way off the Jake Plummer bandwagon

[TheChamp247]

Ok so I would like to start this out by saying I have fully supported Plummer all the way through, a veteran quarterback will ALWAYS do better than a rookie, no matter who we are playing. And yes i know this was a big game against a VERY strong team. The officals did blow their fair share of calls but you can never blame a loss on the refs. The D was less dominate today but was still stong. Now to my point, I am on my way off of the Plummer bandwagon (whats left of it) for 2 reasons, 1. Was the fumble in the red zone, no matter what you have to hang on to the ball with 2 hands if your being sacked. Easy Clots score and potentialy game deciding. 2. 3rd and 9 with 2 minuets remaining, Plummer has an amazing play breaking out of rushers to the right side only to jump in the air and thow a pass well behing and short of the reciever with NOBODY within 10 yards of him. If he runs and somehow manages not to get the first, at least the clock runs and could change the game. Anyways i know a lot of people here won't agree with me but this is my opinion, however i will always bleed the orange and blue. GO BRONCOS!

[epicSocialism4tw]

merge?

[TheChamp247]

o my bad, i tried looking for a similar post but i felt that it was too long of a post to add on....merge if needed

[Blart]

We lost because Plummer turned everyone on the broncos defense gay with his good looks

[Popps]

The fumble was forced by a dominant defensive lineman. Give him credit, and pray that we see one in Denver again some day.

[TheChamp247]

Oh yea by no means am I not giving credit to the D-lineman, he made a great play. All im saying is that Plummer needed more field awareness, and if he though he as going to be wraped up as he was, he should have grabed the ball with both hands. And yes I do pray for the day we have a D-lineman that acually single handedly gets good pressure, Elvis sadly hit a slump today

[SprintRightOption]

Looking good, looking good. Then BAM!
The D was less dominate today but was still stong.
That's where you lost me.

[Florida_Bronco]

I find it sad that the game when our offense gets in gear coincides with the game our defense laid an egg. Anyways, I won't fault Jake too much for that fumble. The guy was getting raped by 2 D-lineman and the ball popped out. It sucks, but it happens. On that 3 and 9 play...had both Bells not fallen down at the line of scrimmage on that play, maybe Jake wouldn't have had to fight out of that. Either way, he did a great job just avoiding the sack.

[mattbeymvp]

9 out of 10 QBs in this league get sacked on that play you want to blame Plummer for. If it ended up being a sack then we couldn't have tied the game up.

With Freeney lined up on a backup left tackle I'm surprised he didn't cause more havoc. The fact of the matter is, the Colts made adjustments at halftime to the holes in our defense and our coaching staff didn't adjust ours.

Most of the blame rests on Darrent Williams' shoulders though.

[TheChamp247]

Looking good, looking good. Then BAM!

That's where you lost me.

well with what I saw, was that our offense finally did get it in gear (except for a few plays) which was all great. However our special teams failed our defense today, to many times did we have to punt and they would have a good return...thats my feeling on it. Granted in the end D-Will got picked on way to much on those come-back plays and yes the defense did slack off, but it was 14-6 at one point and they played as strong as we could ask

[mattbeymvp]

well with what I saw, was that our offense finally did get it in gear (except for a few plays) which was all great. However our special teams failed our defense today, to many times did we have to punt and they would have a good return...thats my feeling on it. Granted in the end D-Will got picked on way to much on those come-back plays and yes the defense did slack off, but it was 14-6 at one point and they played as strong as we could ask

They took the entire second half off, what game did you watch?

[Taco John]

I think it's hard to criticize Jake much today. He definitly needs to protect the ball better, but he also needs protected himself.

Overall, I think Jake did his job out there today. I think we just faced the best offense in the league. I was encouraged, as this is the way I think our past games againt the Colts would have looked like if we had gotten some offensive execution during them. We're a step closer.

[Blart]

Jake couldn't get pressure on manning, he couldn't cover Wayne, nor could he block worth a damn.

[TheChamp247]

9 out of 10 QBs in this league get sacked on that play you want to blame Plummer for. If it ended up being a sack then we couldn't have tied the game up.

With Freeney lined up on a backup left tackle I'm surprised he didn't cause more havoc. The fact of the matter is, the Colts made adjustments at halftime to the holes in our defense and our coaching staff didn't adjust ours.

Most of the blame rests on Darrent Williams' shoulders though.

Oh yea i thought it was amazing how Plummer managed to get away from that sack and yes he did manage to keep us in field goal range, but to me thats not enough to expect from a veteran quarterback who is supposed to lead us deep into the playoffs, I believe he should have had the presense to tuck the ball and run, it does at least one of 2 things, gaurantees the clock runs and second mabye he gets the first and we force OT or even better score the winning TD. My view is that Plummer does his share of work, but he is not the QB who will make the game winning plays. That play reminded me of a play we had against Oakland a few years ago in the snow. We picked it off in the redzone, Plummer makes an amazing move to get away from defenders and a sack, only to thow a pick when he could have run it and lived to fight another play. What I want is a QB who will finish a game off

[orange crusher]

9 out of 10 QBs in this league get sacked on that play you want to blame Plummer for. If it ended up being a sack then we couldn't have tied the game up.

Most of the blame rests on Darrent Williams' shoulders though.

I think you're thinking of a different play on a different series. We didn't get the field goal to tie it on the drive that Jake fumbled. However, I agree on the play you're referring to. Most tend to forget the good things Jake does.

As for the blame resting on DW's shoulders, I don't completely agree. While DW had a rough day, the lack of pressure on Manning was the biggest factor. Manning could have eaten a Snickers in the pocket while he surveyed the field.

[mattbeymvp]

The same people bashing Plummer for throwing the ball away would have been the first people to jump down his throat had he decided to throw and it got intercepted or had he held on and got hit and fumbled.

Nothing he ever does is going to be enough for you, unless he gets his name changed legally to Elway.

[TheChamp247]

As to how the "defense took the 2nd half off" I agree that they slacked in the second half, the colts had better halftime preparations offensively than we did defensivly (mostly we should have decieded to blitz more) but they played consistantly enough to keep the game close and if our offense, mostly Plummer converts on a few key plays we win, thats what his veteran leadership is there for isn't it?

[orange crusher]

I think you're thinking of a different play on a different series. We didn't get the field goal to tie it on the drive that Jake fumbled. However, I agree on the play you're referring to. Most tend to forget the good things Jake does.

As for the blame resting on DW's shoulders, I don't completely agree. While DW had a rough day, the lack of pressure on Manning was the biggest factor. Manning could have eaten a Snickers in the pocket while he surveyed the field.

Oops, my goof. I didn't see that he did mention the play that we got the FG.

[mattbeymvp]

As to how the "defense took the 2nd half off" I agree that they slacked in the second half, the colts had better halftime preparations offensively than we did defensivly (mostly we should have decieded to blitz more) but they played consistantly enough to keep the game close and if our offense, mostly Plummer converts on a few key plays we win, thats what his veteran leadership is there for isn't it?

So Plummer has to be perfect but the defense is afforded excuses?

Whatever.

[Turf Shaman]

I've got no problem with how Jake played today. And I was all over him for his play earlier in the season. If he played like he did today, I wouldn't have been. Seems like some people on this board want to jump on Jake for everything and others want to defend him and find far fetched excuses when he's blatantly stinkin' it up. Is giving him credit when he plays well and criticizing him when he plays bad such a novel approach?

[TheChamp247]

The same people bashing Plummer for throwing the ball away would have been the first people to jump down his throat had he decided to throw and it got intercepted or had he held on and got hit and fumbled.

Nothing he ever does is going to be enough for you, unless he gets his name changed legally to Elway.

Im not sure you read everything here. Im not "bashing" him for throwing the ball away, im simply saying that if he runs, we have a much better chance to win (3rd and 9 play in 4th quarter) That "throw" he had should have been intercepted, it was horrible, yes plummer does have good plays that go overlooked, hell he has done great here in denver, but what im looking for is a QB who makes the game winning decision in the 4th quarter and this is where i think Plummer blew it

[TheChamp247]

So Plummer has to be perfect but the defense is afforded excuses?

Whatever.

This is the best the defense has played against the colts (in a real game) since like the regular season game i think in 2003 (correct me if im wrong, im reffering to the one where CP was hurt, and we stomped them in Indy, only to return in the playoffs to get stomped) The defense should have had a better gameplan, but they didn't and they exectued enough to keep us in it. Im also not saying Plummer has to be perfect, but this is a KEY play, simple (well after he makes his signature move on the defenders) but having the presence to run it instead of throwing there seems like its a football 101 type play, you need the clock to run in that situation

just noticed, mod who changed the title, good move. more discriptive, thanks

[mattbeymvp]

This is the best the defense has played against the colts (in a real game) since like the regular season game i think in 2003 (correct me if im wrong, im reffering to the one where CP was hurt, and we stomped them in Indy, only to return in the playoffs to get stomped) The defense should have had a better gameplan, but they didn't and they exectued enough to keep us in it. Im also not saying Plummer has to be perfect, but this is a KEY play, simple (well after he makes his signature move on the defenders) but having the presence to run it instead of throwing there seems like its a football 101 type play, you need the clock to run in that situation

No, when you score 31 points and lose your defense does not "keep you in the game".

[TheChamp247]

No, when you score 31 points and lose your defense does not "keep you in the game".

yes acually in this game they did, we played the colts, who ealsiy scored 90 points in two playoff games, as our defense simply watched from the sidelines, yes i mean the starting defense

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Plummer played to his potential today. By no means is a franchise quarterback... but he is a mobile guy with a decent arm who can escape the pocket and make plays. Griese would have been killed on at least 2 plays where Jake scrambled for first downs. While his drop-back passing accuracy sucks, he's probably the best in the league while throwing on the run.

He made some GREAT throws today: That strike to Kircus was all-the-way across the field, probably 50 yards in the air on a frozen rope. The toss to Scheffler while running full-tilt to the left was a thing of beauty. He showed perfect touch on the TD to Walker. Add in the drive-sustaining scrambles... and the sack avoidance that kept us in field goal range. He played a heck of a game as far as I'm concerned.

Jake is certainly an upgrade to his predecesor. Obviously, he's not the long-term answer... but he has lived up to, if not surpassed, my expectations of him. Count me in as a fan of his. I may be in the minority, but I really appreciate what he has done over the past few years. Hopefully he goes out a winner.

And when Cutler does take over... which will be next year... I'll be just as excited as everyone else.

[Sassy]

He made some GREAT throws today: That strike to Kircus was all-the-way across the field, probably 50 yards in the air on a frozen rope. The toss to Scheffler while running full-tilt to the left was a thing of beauty. He showed perfect touch on the TD to Walker. Add in the drive-sustaining scrambles... and the sack avoidance that kept us in field goal range. He played a heck of a game as far as I'm concerned.

None, of which, show up on the "stats"...for those of you who said Jake just had an "average" game...I don't see it that way at all!

[titan]

Plummer on the Broncos All Access show tonight said he regretted not running on that final failed 3rd down attempt, though he said avoiding the sack was the first thing on his mind (he wanted to stay within Elam's field goal range). I don't think he knew how clear a path he had to run for the first down.

I was sitting in the north stands, and the Kircus completion was one of the best I've seen from Plummer. He missed on the bomb to Javon in the 1st half but did have some other nice throws. Also nice to see the bootleg back in the offense. The defense lost this one, not Jake.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

9 out of 10 QBs in this league get sacked on that play you want to blame Plummer for. If it ended up being a sack then we couldn't have tied the game up.

With Freeney lined up on a backup left tackle I'm surprised he didn't cause more havoc. The fact of the matter is, the Colts made adjustments at halftime to the holes in our defense and our coaching staff didn't adjust ours.

Most of the blame rests on Darrent Williams' shoulders though.

I completely disagree. Reggie Wayne was allowed to run timing routes uncontested (sometimes with 3 moves) while Payton stood protected in the pocket. Lining Darrent up 6 yards off the reciever (then letting the combo of Manning & Wayne have 5 seconds to throw) is the reason Darrent appeared exploited. Honestly, I think the result would have been just about the same if Champ was the one covering Wayne. They just didn't want to take the chance against the absolute best DB in the business.. so they kept going up against Darrent.

[mattbeymvp]

I completely disagree. Reggie Wayne was allowed to run timing routes uncontested (sometimes with 3 moves) while Payton stood protected in the pocket. Lining Darrent up 6 yards off the reciever (then letting the combo of Manning & Wayne have 5 seconds to throw) is the reason Darrent appeared exploited. Honestly, I think the result would have been just about the same if Champ was the one covering Wayne. They just didn't want to take the chance against the absolute best DB in the business.. so they kept going up against Darrent.

Darrent bit on every single fake Wayne made on intermediate routes. He kept trying to jump routes and was constantly out of position.

[Florida_Bronco]

Plummer played to his potential today. By no means is a franchise quarterback... but he is a mobile guy with a decent arm who can escape the pocket and make plays. Griese would have been killed on at least 2 plays where Jake scrambled for first downs. While his drop-back passing accuracy sucks, he's probably the best in the league while throwing on the run.

He made some GREAT throws today: That strike to Kircus was all-the-way across the field, probably 50 yards in the air on a frozen rope. The toss to Scheffler while running full-tilt to the left was a thing of beauty. He showed perfect touch on the TD to Walker. Add in the drive-sustaining scrambles... and the sack avoidance that kept us in field goal range. He played a heck of a game as far as I'm concerned.

Jake is certainly an upgrade to his predecesor. Obviously, he's not the long-term answer... but he has lived up to, if not surpassed, my expectations of him. Count me in as a fan of his. I may be in the minority, but I really appreciate what he has done over the past few years. Hopefully he goes out a winner.

And when Cutler does take over... which will be next year... I'll be just as excited as everyone else.


This is a great assesment of Plummer and a great post.

[dbfan4life]

Using THIS game to jump off the Jake Plummer wagon is chicken****! Try not to **** up your already ****ed up face on the pavement on the way off.

[Blueflame]

Darrent bit on every single fake Wayne made on intermediate routes. He kept trying to jump routes and was constantly out of position.

Darrent Williams is just in his second NFL season. Reggie Wayne is half of arguably the best WR tandem in the league. With Champ Bailey on the other side (covering Marvin Harrison, who was worth a whopping 4 FF points today), who can blame the OC for going after the less-experienced CB? ??? Let's get real... rather than skewering a young DB, I'd say our team came up a tiny bit short against a very tough, as-yet-undefeated opponent.

[mattbeymvp]

Darrent Williams is just in his second NFL season. Reggie Wayne is half of arguably the best WR tandem in the league. With Champ Bailey on the other side (covering Marvin Harrison, who was worth a whopping 4 FF points today), who can blame the OC for going after the less-experienced CB? ??? Let's get real... rather than skewering a young DB, I'd say our team came up a tiny bit short against a very tough, as-yet-undefeated opponent.

I blame him for not making a single stop and then acting like an idiot in his post game interview.

[Taco John]

I blame him for not making a single stop and then acting like an idiot in his post game interview.

Yes, but you run a website called "FireMikeShanahan.com," so in reality, nobody honestly cares who you blame or what you even think, except to gain amusement for the fact that the minute we lose, you come out of the woodwork to update your site.

[DomCasual]

Yes, but you run a website called "FireMikeShanahan.com," so in reality, nobody honestly cares who you blame or what you even think, except to gain amusement for the fact that the minute we lose, you come out of the woodwork to update your site.

I just said the exact same thing in another thread. The guy disappears for a month of winning football games. Now all of a sudden, he is a posting machine.

As I said in the other thread, I don't respect a single thing he says. Bottom line is that he acts happy when we lose and he disappears when we win. That puts him in the same category as Waffle Boy, and I don't respect him, either.

[mattbeymvp]

Yes, but you run a website called "FireMikeShanahan.com," so in reality, nobody honestly cares who you blame or what you even think, except to gain amusement for the fact that the minute we lose, you come out of the woodwork to update your site.

You have an inability to address points because you weigh more than your SAT score. Thus you rely almost solely upon ad hominem attacks and debate tactics that wouldn't work against a seven year old.

It's sad.

[Blueflame]

I blame him for not making a single stop and then acting like an idiot in his post game interview.

The '06 Broncos defense is the primary reason why the team has 5 wins... and Darrent has played a pretty big role in that. Paid-a-ton Manning is "the best QB in the NFL"... just listen to ESPiN and they'll tell you so. :P

Anyway, we're still in good shape... 5-2 isn't the end of the world (I'd bet a significant percentage of Broncos fans had this game penciled in as a possible loss from the moment the schedule came out... ).

[Blueflame]

You have an inability to address points because you weigh more than your SAT score. Thus you rely almost solely upon ad hominem attacks and debate tactics that wouldn't work against a seven year old.

It's sad.

Coming from a guy whose webpage (fireshanahan.com) is an ad hominem attack (on the Broncos' HC), the irony of this post is sublime...

[mattbeymvp]

Coming from a guy whose webpage (fireshanahan.com) is an ad hominem attack (on the Broncos' HC), the irony of this post is sublime...

You're a genius. Arguing that a person is ineffective at their occupation using statistics and by pointing out specific failures is not an ad hominem attack.

If I had posts on my site where I said "Shanahan is stupid" "Shanahan is a jerk" or any of that, maybe what you said would be relevant.

Learn to use ellipsis points too.

Sincerely,

Jacob.

[Blueflame]

You're a genius. Arguing that a person is ineffective at their occupation using statistics and by pointing out specific failures is not an ad hominem attack.

If I had posts on my site where I said "Shanahan is stupid" "Shanahan is a jerk" or any of that, maybe what you said would be relevant.

Learn to use ellipsis points too.

Sincerely,

Jacob.

If 119 wins and 64 losses... 2 SB trophies and only one sub-.500 season (of 11) is "ineffective", one's standards for success must be unattainably high. You do realize that 31 other franchises would be very happy to have that record of "ineptitude", right?

[mattbeymvp]

If 119 wins and 64 losses... 2 SB trophies and only one sub-.500 season (of 11) is "ineffective", one's standards for success must be unattainably high. You do realize that 31 other franchises would be very happy to have that record of "ineptitude", right?

My two word retort:

Post Elway

[Blueflame]

My two word retort:

Post Elway

Post Elway, the Broncos still have a winning record (72-47).

[mattbeymvp]

Post Elway, the Broncos still have a winning record (72-47).

Mediocrity, settling for less, constant excuses. The hallmarks of Shanahan after Elway.

[labronx]

The fumble was forced by a dominant defensive lineman. Give him credit, and pray that we see one in Denver again some day.

The fumble was caused by a turnover machine called Jake Plummer!
It's the only thing that has ever been consistant throught out his career.

I think one year he managed to get his shiat together only to relapse during the playoffs.

Good luck with Plummer the rest of the season.

We have a defense that can't stop Payton Manning and an offensive line that can't stop dominant defensive linemen.

Why do we even bother playing on Sundays?

Our QB is doing great don't worry as long we keep on winning. He is 5-1 and has something like a 36-12 record as our QB, no worries he will get it together all you guys are just Plummer haters.

Wrong he is 5-2 as long as we keep winning right?

[Blueflame]

Mediocrity, settling for less, constant excuses. The hallmarks of Shanahan after Elway.

A lot of ball clubs would like to be as "mediocre" as the post-Elway Broncos. Are we supposed to be shocked or surprised that it's difficult to replace a retired HOF'er?

[Blueflame]

The fumble was caused by a turnover machine called Jake Plummer!
It's the only thing that has ever been consistant throught out his career.


The one thing that has been consistent through Plummer's career is inconsistency, imho... he is capable of making a brilliant play that makes the fans go "YEAH"... followed immediately by one that makes us all go "WTF WAS THAT?"

[Kaylore]

The sack isn't Plummer's fault but the fumble is. Lots of Quarterbacks get sacked without fumbling. Plummer has fumbled quite a bit this year. Sometimes we get them, sometimes we don't but his small hands make it easy to force fumbles on him. He shouldn't have done that - especially in our own redzone which seems to be his favorite place to give the ball to the other team.

[Popps]

The sack isn't Plummer's fault but the fumble is.

DE Dwight Freeney and LB Cato June collaborated on a sack of Denver QB Jake Plummer, forcing a fumble that Colts DT Raheem Brock recovered at the Broncos 12]

Ummm... no, it wasn't.

It was a forced fumble. It was statistically ruled a forced fumble. The rest of the free world recognizes it as a forced fumble and a fantastic defensive play.

I realize you have an agenda to keep up, but when one guy hits your QB low, the other grabs him high and slams him down on top of another guy, bad things can happen.

As for "other QBs not fumbling"... Plummer has been one of the least sacked QBs in in the league due to his elusiveness. He fumbles no more than any other QB when he's sacked.

Look, the rest of the planet watched the play and credited Freeney with a forced fumble. But, you feel free to stick it on Plummer. God forbid we put the blame where it was due.

[Northman]

DE Dwight Freeney and LB Cato June collaborated on a sack of Denver QB Jake Plummer, forcing a fumble that Colts DT Raheem Brock recovered at the Broncos 12]

Ummm... no, it wasn't.

It was a forced fumble. It was statistically ruled a forced fumble. The rest of the free world recognizes it as a forced fumble and a fantastic defensive play.

I realize you have an agenda to keep up, but when one guy hits your QB low, the other grabs him high and slams him down on top of another guy, bad things can happen.

As for "other QBs not fumbling"... Plummer has been one of the least sacked QBs in in the league due to his elusiveness. He fumbles no more than any other QB when he's sacked.

Look, the rest of the planet watched the play and credited Freeney with a forced fumble. But, you feel free to stick it on Plummer. God forbid we put the blame where it was due.



This wasnt a blindside hit where Jake didnt know what was going on. The ball got stripped because Jake didnt secure it. That is a fumble on Jake's part no matter how much you want to spin it.

[Popps]

This wasnt a blindside hit where Jake didnt know what was going on. The ball got stripped because Jake didnt secure it. That is a fumble on Jake's part no matter how much you want to spin it.

He attempted to secure it on the way down. Problem was, THREE guys were kicking his ass in the process.

But, you're right.. the 34 points we gave up today were probably due to that fumble, which was ruled a forced fumble and recognized by everyone but you and a couple of others around here a forced fumble.

Hey, anything to give the d-line a free ride, right? God forbid we point the finger at the unit that's been letting this franchise down for almost a decade.

[Kaylore]

I'm off it only because we're not going to win a Super Bowl with this front four and this is Plummer's last year. I think we'll win some good games and make the playoffs and then get bounced early. If we can't beat Peyton Manning in our own hose with their absolute worst defense, we aren't going to be able to beat other playoff calibur teams that are complete on the road or in neutral stadiums.

[Northman]

He attempted to secure it on the way down. Problem was, THREE guys were kicking his ass in the process.

But, you're right.. the 34 points we gave up today were probably due to that fumble, which was ruled a forced fumble and recognized by everyone but you and a couple of others around here a forced fumble.

Hey, anything to give the d-line a free ride, right? God forbid we point the finger at the unit that's been letting this franchise down for almost a decade.


This coming from the guy who gives Jake a free ride right? Dont play like you dont. Ive already stated that defense played poorly but one guy took Jake to the ground and stripped it out of his hands. Just like a back Jake needs to put 2 hands on that **** and secure it. If he puts two hands on that ball it doesnt come loose period. Oh yea, who exactly has been keeping this team in games the first 6 weeks? Oh yea, the defense. Guess you forgot all about that already. Must be your ADD kicking in eh Popps?

[AlienBronco]

DE Dwight Freeney and LB Cato June collaborated on a sack of Denver QB Jake Plummer, forcing a fumble that Colts DT Raheem Brock recovered at the Broncos 12]

Ummm... no, it wasn't.

It was a forced fumble. It was statistically ruled a forced fumble. The rest of the free world recognizes it as a forced fumble and a fantastic defensive play.

I realize you have an agenda to keep up, but when one guy hits your QB low, the other grabs him high and slams him down on top of another guy, bad things can happen.

As for "other QBs not fumbling"... Plummer has been one of the least sacked QBs in in the league due to his elusiveness. He fumbles no more than any other QB when he's sacked.

Look, the rest of the planet watched the play and credited Freeney with a forced fumble. But, you feel free to stick it on Plummer. God forbid we put the blame where it was due.


I blame this fumble on the two new inexperience Linemen who Freeney toke advantage off. If you watch the replay of the game, you will see Freeney run a stunt that leaves Pearce in dust and then proceeds to go around the RG Carlisle causing the fumble.

[Blueflame]

He attempted to secure it on the way down. Problem was, THREE guys were kicking his ass in the process.

But, you're right.. the 34 points we gave up today were probably due to that fumble, which was ruled a forced fumble and recognized by everyone but you and a couple of others around here a forced fumble.

Hey, anything to give the d-line a free ride, right? God forbid we point the finger at the unit that's been letting this franchise down for almost a decade.

Um... isn't the defense that allowed a meager 44 points through six games a primary reason why we have 5 wins? "Letting this franchise down for almost a decade" seems a bit harsh in light of that little factoid...

[Kaylore]

I blame this fumble on the two new inexperience Linemen who Freeney toke advantage off. If you watch the replay of the game, you will see Freeney run a stunt that leaves Pearce in dust and then proceeds to go around the RG Kuper causing the fumble.

Kuper didn't play.

[Kaylore]

Um... isn't the defense that allowed a meager 44 points through six games a primary reason why we have 5 wins? "Letting this franchise down for almost a decade" seems a bit harsh in light of that little factoid...

Popps made up his mind that Coyer is the problem long ago and is convinced another defensive coordinator would have turned Ebenezer Ekuban into Reggie White by now. Besides, I'm sure he's eager to turn the tables on the Jake bashers and get some good Coyer bashing in while he still can.

[Northman]

Um... isn't the defense that allowed a meager 44 points through six games a primary reason why we have 5 wins? "Letting this franchise down for almost a decade" seems a bit harsh in light of that little factoid...



Nah, anyone who has been keeping up with Popps knows that he was waiting for the defense to have a bad game. And Boom, here he is. He even tried to blame the defense in week 1 but started to back peddle when he realized that the defense was the only reason we were still in the games after that. But like clockwork here he is with his doom and gloom of the defense again. Ha!

[Popps]

Popps made up his mind that Coyer is the problem long ago and is convinced another defensive coordinator would have turned Ebenezer Ekuban into Reggie White by now.

Wow, so you've gone from clueless to just a flat out liar.

No, I never "decided" Coyer was the problem. In fact, I've said he's done pretty well with the (lack of) talent he's been given up front.

I think he's learning on the job, and had some obvious problems (like today) ... but I've never expected him to turn **** into sugar-coookies.

Quite the contrary, I've called for us to bring in some legitimate talent up front for this guy to build a defense around.

So, you're just barfing out random lies at this point. A simple search of my posts on the guy will prove that.

[Popps]

Nah, anyone who has been keeping up with Popps knows that he was waiting for the defense to have a bad game. !

Again, just random lies.

Go ahead and check my posts before the game today. I hoped and expected our D to make a real statement against Manning. (Feel free to read my posts on the game-thread I started)

I was shocked to see this kind of collapse again. I honestly expected a couple of scores, but nothing like this complete melt-down.

I'm a huge fan of our defensive talent. I just also happen to be aware of the disservice our front office has done to players like Lynch and Bailey by poo-poo'ing the d-lne for years.

But, hey.. just keep throwing random lies out there. It's really all you've got.

[Northman]

Again, just random lies.

Go ahead and check my posts before the game today. I hoped and expected our D to make a real statement against Manning. (Feel free to read my posts on the game-thread I started)

I was shocked to see this kind of collapse again. I honestly expected a couple of scores, but nothing like this complete melt-down.

I'm a huge fan of our defensive talent. I just also happen to be aware of the disservice our front office has done to players like Lynch and Bailey by poo-poo'ing the d-lne for years.

But, hey.. just keep throwing random lies out there. It's really all you've got.



Oh, their not random. But i dont have the time to go and dredge through all your posts the last 6 games but i know they are there. Which totally explains why you have jumped ship after a bad game by the defense. its one game and we lost by 3 when it could have been 20. We are 5-2 and hardly out of the race. Sack up.

[AlienBronco]

Kuper didn't play.

Sorry, my bad it was Carlisle

[Popps]

Oh, their not random. But i dont have the time to go and dredge through all your posts the last 6 games but i know they are there. Which totally explains why you have jumped ship after a bad game by the defense. its one game and we lost by 3 when it could have been 20. We are 5-2 and hardly out of the race. Sack up.

A. Not jumping ship. I love this team and the players.

B. Our D has been great until this week.

C. I never said we were out of the race.

Any other BS you want to fabricate?

[Blueflame]

Popps made up his mind that Coyer is the problem long ago and is convinced another defensive coordinator would have turned Ebenezer Ekuban into Reggie White by now. Besides, I'm sure he's eager to turn the tables on the Jake bashers and get some good Coyer bashing in while he still can.

Nah, anyone who has been keeping up with Popps knows that he was waiting for the defense to have a bad game. And Boom, here he is. He even tried to blame the defense in week 1 but started to back peddle when he realized that the defense was the only reason we were still in the games after that. But like clockwork here he is with his doom and gloom of the defense again.

We all knew the defense probably wasn't gonna be able to carry the whole team throughout the season. What is surprising (or not LOL) is that those who were the most willing to give Plummer a pass for five subpar games are the first ones to point the finger at Coyer after this game.

[Northman]

A. Not jumping ship. I love this team and the players.

B. Our D has been great until this week.

C. I never said we were out of the race.

Any other BS you want to fabricate?



Your carrying on and on about the defense. Its one game. Get over it already. Sack up.

[Popps]

We all knew the defense probably wasn't gonna be able to carry the whole team throughout the season..

Right, and for good reason.

We also didn't realize that they would fail their first test so miserably.

Indy averages 28 points a game. We gave them 34. We couldn't even do better than the Texans of the world against them.

But, I'll leave you guys to your Plummer infatuation. Have at it. I'll still be here bitching about this stuff when Cutler takes over if it's not fixed... just like I was when Griese was QB.

It's weird when people see beyond the QB position, huh? Very confusing.

[Popps]

Your carrying on and on about the defense. Its one game. Get over it already. Sack up.

I'll be gung-ho by next weekend. This game just represented a lot, and it was a test for the defense I really thought they'd ace, or at least pass.

[Northman]

We all knew the defense probably wasn't gonna be able to carry the whole team throughout the season. What is surprising (or not LOL) is that those who were the most willing to give Plummer a pass for five subpar games are the first ones to point the finger at Coyer after this game.



Again, im not shocked. I knew this would happen. Once the defense had a bad game i knew we would have 20 threads on how the defense is the problem again even though they have been more consistent than our Qb. Nevermind how great the defense has played most of the year but one bad game and " oh no!, our season is lost! " wah wah wah wah

[Northman]

I'll be gung-ho by next weekend. This game just represented a lot, and it was a test for the defense I really thought they'd ace, or at least pass.



Not really, Indy is our kryptonite right now. I thought Coyer would have blitzed more but that didnt seem to be working either. But, im just glad the offense decided to keep us in the game today otherwise it would have been a lot worse. I was more worried about the offense in this game than the defense. I knew Peyton and co. would get their points. Its a great offense. Coyer just needs to come up with a stronger gameplan next time.

[Blueflame]

Right, and for good reason.

We also didn't realize that they would fail their first test so miserably.

Indy averages 28 points a game. We gave them 34. We couldn't even do better than the Texans of the world against them.

But, I'll leave you guys to your Plummer infatuation. Have at it. I'll still be here b****ing about this stuff when Cutler takes over if it's not fixed... just like I was when Griese was QB.

It's weird when people see beyond the QB position, huh? Very confusing.

Neither the offense nor special teams has looked particularly good in '06. The defense has. So today was their "first test", eh? I'd say that happened in Week One. You do realize, of course, that the Rams (tied with the Seachickens), Pats, and Ravens are currently leading their respective divisions...

[Popps]

Not really, Indy is our kryptonite right now. I thought Coyer would have blitzed more but that didnt seem to be working either. But, im just glad the offense decided to keep us in the game today otherwise it would have been a lot worse. I was more worried about the offense in this game than the defense. I knew Peyton and co. would get their points. Its a great offense. Coyer just needs to come up with a stronger gameplan next time.

I hope that next time is this season. We have officially developed a giant monkey on our back... the Bakersfield chimp variety.

[Northman]

I hope that next time is this season. We have officially developed a giant monkey on our back... the Bakersfield chimp variety.

True.

[Blueflame]

Again, im not shocked. I knew this would happen. Once the defense had a bad game i knew we would have 20 threads on how the defense is the problem again even though they have been more consistent than our Qb. Nevermind how great the defense has played most of the year but one bad game and " oh no!, our season is lost! " wah wah wah wah

Yeah, I'm not at all surprised... it's par for the course.

[Popps]

Neither the offense nor special teams has looked particularly good in '06. The defense has. So today was their "first test", eh? I'd say that happened in Week One. You do realize, of course, that the Rams (tied with the Seachickens), Pats, and Ravens are currently leading their respective divisions...

I'm not taking away from our past solid performances.

But, if you don't think that everything we've done on defense in the past three years has been because of Manning exploiting us, you're just not paying attention.

This was a "calendar" game, marked down from the beginning of the season.
We whiffed, big-time.

Our second biggest test game comes next week. Let's hope we show up.

[Blueflame]

Not really, Indy is our kryptonite right now. I thought Coyer would have blitzed more but that didnt seem to be working either. But, im just glad the offense decided to keep us in the game today otherwise it would have been a lot worse. I was more worried about the offense in this game than the defense. I knew Peyton and co. would get their points. Its a great offense. Coyer just needs to come up with a stronger gameplan next time.

The Colts own us... the Pats own them... and we own the Pats. Go figure. LOL

[Popps]

Yeah, I'm not at all surprised... it's par for the course.

Right, because if it's one thing people are hard on around here.. it's our defense.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Popps]

Indy is our kryptonite right now

Totally true.

The upside here is, I think we can beat every other team in the league.

If we were in the NFC, I'd be booking hotel reservations for the Superbowl.

[BroncoFanCam]

Mediocrity, settling for less, constant excuses. The hallmarks of Shanahan after Elway.

I agree, let's do our damndest to try and lure Schittenhiemer away from the Chargers... That's how ya win baby!!! :chairhit:

Fact is, Shanny is one of the PREMIER Head Coaches in football, and for you to think otherwise discredits you from the begining...

[Blueflame]

I'm not taking away from our past solid performances.

But, if you don't think that everything we've done on defense in the past three years has been because of Manning exploiting us, you're just not paying attention.

This was a "calendar" game, marked down from the beginning of the season.
We whiffed, big-time.

Our second biggest test game comes next week. Let's hope we show up.

A big part of the reason Manning has "exploited us" in the postseason is injury at the CB position. Today, I think Gerard Warren's absence might have been a factor. With the time and comfort level Paid-a-ton had in the pocket, any QB in the league could probably have found an open receiver. Still, we were within reach of the win and could very well have pulled it out had Plummer not coughed up the football at the 12.... the play was key; not just in terms of points, but in momentum.

[Popps]

A big part of the reason Manning has "exploited us" in the postseason is injury at the CB position. Today, I think Gerard Warren's absence might have been a factor. With the time and comfort level Paid-a-ton had in the pocket, any QB in the league could probably have found an open receiver. Still, we were within reach of the win and could very well have pulled it out had Plummer not coughed up the football at the 12.... the play was key; not just in terms of points, but in momentum.

It was a forced fumble by a top tier defensive linemen. It was a game-changing play made by a game-chaning player.

Just hope that some day we'll see one of those up front, again.

[Blueflame]

Right, because if it's one thing people are hard on around here.. it's our defense.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I didn't count the number of threads today, but it's clear some are very hard on them, despite the fact that they've performed at a much higher level all season than either the offense or special teams.

[Nomad]

Instead of listening to the orangemane (non)experts...let's take a quick look at what the people that matter think....


Plummer protects his starting role
Veteran quarterback chalks up a 104.1 rating
By Mike Klis and Bill Williamson
Denver Post Staff Writers
DenverPost.com
Article Last Updated:10/29/2006 11:57:06 PM MST

There is the outcome of one game, and there is what's best for a long season.

The Broncos lost to the Indianapolis Colts, 34-31 on Sunday, a defeat that snapped what had been the NFL's longest running regular-season home winning streak at 13 games.

But in the big picture, the Broncos' expectations are centered on Super Bowl XLI. This is why, despite a 5-1 record, there was concern because quarterback Jake Plummer was not playing Super Bowl-caliber ball.

A national report last week said Plummer would be replaced by rookie Jay Cutler. The report said Cutler might be called on in last Sunday's game against Cleveland, or a short time later if Plummer played poorly against Indianapolis and Pittsburgh.

It doesn't look that way anymore. Plummer played well for two quarters in a win at Cleveland and played his best game of the season in nearly matching the high-powered Colts point for point.

"Hopefully everybody will get off of Jake's back now," tight end Stephen Alexander said. "Everybody in here has known all along he's the guy who's going to get it done for us. We just had to play better around him."

Plummer's passing stats Sunday - 13-for-21 for 174 yards, a touchdown, no interceptions and a 104.1 rating - tell only part of the story. It's when he made his completions - enough to lead four touchdown drives of 80 yards or longer. It also appears the Broncos' game plan has begun to call on Plummer's athleticism in recent weeks. Three times he ran for first downs, and he scored a touchdown on a 1-yard dive.

"I'm a quarterback, not a running back, so it's not like I'm telling them to put in running plays for me," Plummer said. "But I've been getting yardage and it's fun. I like doing those things."

"He played very well," coach Mike Shanahan said of Plummer.

Said receiver Rod Smith: "He's taken a lot of shots, verbal shots. But that's not come from people in this locker room. It's like I tell him, 'Wherever you drive this car, I'm going with you.' He played with a lot of heart."

[Circle Orange]

I find it sad that the game when our offense gets in gear coincides with the game our defense laid an egg. Anyways, I won't fault Jake too much for that fumble. The guy was getting raped by 2 D-lineman and the ball popped out. It sucks, but it happens. On that 3 and 9 play...had both Bells not fallen down at the line of scrimmage on that play, maybe Jake wouldn't have had to fight out of that. Either way, he did a great job just avoiding the sack.

That's the same thing I was thinking, its strange that when the D is "off" the O is "on". Weirdness continues this year.

And this Plummer bandwagon has no wheels.

[Dedhed]

It was a forced fumble by a top tier defensive linemen. It was a game-changing play made by a game-chaning player.

Just hope that some day we'll see one of those up front, again.

Or under center, take your pick.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Or under center, take your pick.

Jake made plays yesterday. No doubt about it. That beautiful designed boot play to Kircus was a top-flight throw, and he made plays executed like that over the course of the entire game. Jake scored two TD's. He also hurled a beautiful fly route to Walker that should have been caught. He scrambled like Vick for a first down.

Jake was on. Lets not give a false account of what happened yesterday.

[Barry Ramey]

Yes, Plummer is the only QB in the history of the NFL to get sacked and lose a fumble. He should have learned from watching Elway who NEVER did that of course. And we know Cutler will never, ever get sacked and fumble the ball.

[riiiiick]

that 3rd and 9 play was key and jake could have won it with a play there. a QB trying not to make a mistake vs one who takes chances. he probably thought he could not get 9 running but he did seem to have some room to the side to buy some more time. anyway, it's all split second and he just settled to not get sacked and not make a mistake.

[Barry Ramey]

If Plummer gets sacked, makes a field goal less likely if they even try it. But as one can see, even when Plummer plays well, he won't get any credit from quite a few. They win and Plummer deosn't put up good numbers, he stinks. they lose when Plummer does put up good numbers, he still stinks because they lost. The game they win when he puts up good numbers, they'll say Cutler could have done that. It's beyond ridiculous the Plummer hating.

[epicSocialism4tw]

that 3rd and 9 play was key and jake could have won it with a play there. a QB trying not to make a mistake vs one who takes chances. he probably thought he could not get 9 running but he did seem to have some room to the side to buy some more time. anyway, it's all split second and he just settled to not get sacked and not make a mistake.

Sure, but he made a play just to get out of that collapsed pocket and out of the grasp of whichever DL had him sacked. He made the safe play.

But lets forget that he was given a 3rd and 9, which doesnt seem like much for Manning against the Denver D, but still is a very difficult down to convert. Especially when you dont have a pocket to work with and you have a player on your back.

What's ironic is that the Clots D was able to make things happen when they needed to in the red zone and our defense played like they werent even on the field.

[BMF Bronco]

I don't understand why you are all on Popps' ass for calling a spade a spade. The defense let us down once again in a big time game, circ last years loss against Pittsburgh. Hell even the "experts" point to the fact of the lack of defense, read below...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Aq5RC3V9s5YGaA.VWAqnjMk5nYcB?slug=jc-coltswin102906&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

DENVER – The NFL's marquee matchup between the Indianapolis Colts (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/ind/) and Denver Broncos (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/den/) had a decidedly different feel to it Sunday.
The Colts' 34-31 win was great fun, in all the ways that make the NBA All-Star game a joy to watch. It was fast and furious, as the teams combined for more than 800 yards of offense.
It was exciting as Colts kicker Adam Vinatieri (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3727/)'s 37-yard field goal with two seconds remaining decided the outcome, adding another big kick to his lengthy résumé.
Finally, there was absolutely no defense to be had.
Indianapolis and Denver combined to score on 12 of 17 possessions, including all five series in the fourth quarter. In fact, the Colts essentially scored on seven straight possessions (a kneel-down just before halftime was the lone exception).

<TABLE cellPadding=1 align=right border=0 hspace="10" vspace="5"><TBODY><TR><TD><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=middle>ADVERTISEMENT
<SCRIPT>var lrec_target="_top";var lrec_URL=new Array();lrec_URL[1]="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12i5fpqa9/M=557153.9434804.10168328.1806201/D=sports/S=97542380:LREC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1162235262/A=4033642/R=0/id=flash/SIG=11npcoqvm/*http://downloads.yahoo.com/internetexplorer/index.php";var lrec_fv="clickTAG=javascript:lrec_window(1)";var lrec_swf="http://us.a2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_ie7/20061013_77889_1_300x250_lrec_ie7.swf";var lrec_altURL="http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12i5fpqa9/M=557153.9434804.10168328.1806201/D=sports/S=97542380:LREC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1162235262/A=4033642/R=1/id=altimg/SIG=11npcoqvm/*http://downloads.yahoo.com/internetexplorer/index.php";var lrec_altimg="http://us.a2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_ie7/20061013_77889_1_300x250_lrec_ie7.jpg";var lrec_w=300;var lrec_h=250;</SCRIPT><SCRIPT src="http://us.js2.yimg.com/us.js.yimg.com/a/1-/jscodes/flash6/lrec_20060816.js"></SCRIPT><SCRIPT language=VBScript>on error resume nextplugin=(IsObject(CreateObject("ShockwaveFlash.ShockwaveFlash.6")))</SCRIPT><OBJECT height=250 width=300 classid=clsid:D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000>























<embed src="http://us.a2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_ie7/20061013_77889_1_300x250_lrec_ie7.swf" loop="false" wmode="opaque" quality="high" width="300" height="250" flashvars="clickTAG=javascript:lrec_window(1)" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowScriptAccess="always"></embed></OBJECT><NOSCRIPT>http://us.a2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ya/yahoo_ie7/20061013_77889_1_300x250_lrec_ie7.jpg (http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12i5fpqa9/M=557153.9434804.10168328.1806201/D=sports/S=97542380:LREC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1162235262/A=4033642/R=2/id=noscript/SIG=11npcoqvm/*http://downloads.yahoo.com/internetexplorer/index.php)</NOSCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><SCRIPT type=text/javascript>if (window.yzq_a == null) document.write("<scr" + "ipt type=text/javascript src=""http://us.js2.yimg.com/us.js.yimg.com/lib/bc/bc_1.7.3.js></scr" + "ipt>");</SCRIPT><SCRIPT type=text/javascript>if (window.yzq_a){yzq_a('p', 'P=gFCwaELaR9FcJ1mGRUDQLwy2zuSL6kVGMV4AAFwy&T=13ragrpia%2fX%3d1162228062%2fE%3d97542380%2fR%3d sports%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d1.1%2fW%3d8%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3 d2813690204%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d094ADA42');yzq_a('a', '&U=13a22cgdu%2fN%3dT9WMBdFJq24-%2fC%3d557153.9434804.10168328.1806201%2fD%3dLREC% 2fB%3d4033642');}</SCRIPT><NOSCRIPT>http://us.bc.yahoo.com/b?P=gFCwaELaR9FcJ1mGRUDQLwy2zuSL6kVGMV4AAFwy&T=1408scps2%2fX%3d1162228062%2fE%3d97542380%2fR%3d sports%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d2.1%2fW%3d8%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3 d1743188186%2fQ%3d-1%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d094ADA42&U=13a22cgdu%2fN%3dT9WMBdFJq24-%2fC%3d557153.9434804.10168328.1806201%2fD%3dLREC% 2fB%3d4033642</NOSCRIPT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Indy's passing game (quarterback Peyton Manning (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4256/) threw for 345 yards and wide receiver Reggie Wayne (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/5477/) had 138 yards and three touchdowns) went arm-to-leg with the Broncos' running game (227 yards rushing, including 136 from backup running back Mike Bell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/8008/)). </P>"That was some pretty amazing stuff to watch at both ends, especially if you like offense," said Wayne, who also scored a critical two-point conversion after his third touchdown. "I'm just glad we came out of this with the win because it looked like whoever had it last was going to take it."
Which may be why this is the type of game that shows little really has changed about either team this year.
And in a league where defense is a more consistent measure of a Super Bowl contender's chances, this contest is hardly worth using as a barometer.
The Colts are 7-0 even though they have trouble stopping the run.
Denver, which entered the contest having allowed only two touchdowns all season, still can't stop Manning when it counts, even with a secondary built for that purpose.
Understandably, there was a reason both coaches could discuss the great drama this game provided yet seem a bit chagrined by what they saw.
"I thought eventually that we would stop them," said Colts coach Tony Dungy, who watched his defense get gashed for 180 yards rushing in the second half alone. "We just didn't adjust well. … They made some really good adjustments, but it would have been nice to stop them and not have those last two drives."
The worst part for Dungy is that the gashing was done by just about any back on the Denver roster. Mike Bell, an undrafted rookie, came in for banged-up starter Tatum Bell (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6800/), who was suffering with turf toe. If that wasn't bad enough, fullback Cecil Sapp (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6751/) turned two dive plays into 39 yards.
Of course, Denver coach Mike Shanahan didn't have a much better situation.
Denver played very soft coverage all game long, leaving strong safety John Lynch (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/2441/) back in coverage most of the game. The Broncos rarely blitzed, preferring to play to the speed of their defense.
But where that style has worked all season for Denver, it was picked apart by Manning. He completed 32 of 39 passes, including nine of his last 10 throws on Indianapolis' final two drives.
"He was just amazing at picking us apart," Lynch said. "We've been playing this way all season and I'm comfortable with it, but he's just special."
True, but this has been pretty standard for Manning against the Broncos, particularly when it counts. In two playoff wins after the 2003 and 2004 season, Manning combined to throw nine touchdown passes and only one interception against Denver.
Sunday merely was a continuation of that trend even though Denver had rebuilt its secondary. After the 2003 season, Denver traded for Pro Bowl cornerback Champ Bailey (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4655/) and used three high draft picks on cornerbacks the following year.
While Bailey did his job Sunday, limiting Pro Bowl wide receiver Marvin Harrison (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/3514/) to five catches for 38 yards, the rest of the Denver secondary was useless.
Darrent Williams (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7232/), who was on the other side with Wayne, had his troubles. Whether Wayne was running comeback routes, slants or fades, Williams had no answers.
Furthermore, the Colts did a good job of making sure Williams had little help by putting tight end Dallas Clark (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/6360/) in the slot and forcing Denver to account for him.
It was great strategy, great fun and great theater.
It just may not be the kind of stuff that leads to a title – for either team.

[rbackfactory80]

We did not need defense yesterday, we needed 1 stop.

[epicSocialism4tw]

We did not need defense yesterday, we needed 1 stop.


The only thing that could stop the Clots was halftime.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You have an inability to address points because you weigh more than your SAT score. Thus you rely almost solely upon ad hominem attacks and debate tactics that wouldn't work against a seven year old.

It's sad.
This coming from the genius who came up with "fireshanahan.com" ........... Classic!!!!!!!http://www.digital-inn.de/images/smilies/anims/19.gif
:rofl:

[Rock Chalk]

yes acually in this game they did, we played the colts, who ealsiy scored 90 points in two playoff games, as our defense simply watched from the sidelines, yes i mean the starting defense

Colts didnt score 40 points on us this game because they didnt have the ball enough times thanks to our offense using up the clock.

The defense was just as horrible this past game as it was in the playoffs. The difference being, the offense showed up.

All year long I have heard how if our offense had showed up in Indy, we would have won those games. Anyone want to take back that assumption now?

When you cannot force a single 3 and out, when the only punt you force is the first possession when the opposition is feeling out your defense, you make it real difficult to win the game.

Indy's so called crappy defense put pressure on Jake, got a sack, forced a three and out, forced a fumble and, in general, gave their offense a chance to win.

Our "vaunted" defense did not a single one of those things. THATS why we lost.

[jonny1]

Still, we were within reach of the win and could very well have pulled it out had Plummer not coughed up the football at the 12.... the play was key; not just in terms of points, but in momentum.

Blueflame, I must disagree with you. That fumble happened early in the third quarter.

You do realize that ONE stop by the Broncos defense in the fourth quarter would have won the game?

[Dedhed]

Blueflame, I must disagree with you. That fumble happened early in the third quarter.

You do realize that ONE stop by the Broncos defense in the fourth quarter would have won the game?

One more first down probably wins it. 0 turnovers probably wins it. Chicken/Egg. Plummer/Defense.

[Crushaholic]

Anybody who has said Plummer can't throw the deep ball has to be eating crow today. That throw to Kircus was outstanding...:notworthy

[yavoon]

Instead of listening to the orangemane (non)experts...let's take a quick look at what the people that matter think....


Plummer protects his starting role
Veteran quarterback chalks up a 104.1 rating
By Mike Klis and Bill Williamson
Denver Post Staff Writers
DenverPost.com
Article Last Updated:10/29/2006 11:57:06 PM MST

There is the outcome of one game, and there is what's best for a long season.

The Broncos lost to the Indianapolis Colts, 34-31 on Sunday, a defeat that snapped what had been the NFL's longest running regular-season home winning streak at 13 games.

But in the big picture, the Broncos' expectations are centered on Super Bowl XLI. This is why, despite a 5-1 record, there was concern because quarterback Jake Plummer was not playing Super Bowl-caliber ball.

A national report last week said Plummer would be replaced by rookie Jay Cutler. The report said Cutler might be called on in last Sunday's game against Cleveland, or a short time later if Plummer played poorly against Indianapolis and Pittsburgh.

It doesn't look that way anymore. Plummer played well for two quarters in a win at Cleveland and played his best game of the season in nearly matching the high-powered Colts point for point.

"Hopefully everybody will get off of Jake's back now," tight end Stephen Alexander said. "Everybody in here has known all along he's the guy who's going to get it done for us. We just had to play better around him."

Plummer's passing stats Sunday - 13-for-21 for 174 yards, a touchdown, no interceptions and a 104.1 rating - tell only part of the story. It's when he made his completions - enough to lead four touchdown drives of 80 yards or longer. It also appears the Broncos' game plan has begun to call on Plummer's athleticism in recent weeks. Three times he ran for first downs, and he scored a touchdown on a 1-yard dive.

"I'm a quarterback, not a running back, so it's not like I'm telling them to put in running plays for me," Plummer said. "But I've been getting yardage and it's fun. I like doing those things."

"He played very well," coach Mike Shanahan said of Plummer.

Said receiver Rod Smith: "He's taken a lot of shots, verbal shots. But that's not come from people in this locker room. It's like I tell him, 'Wherever you drive this car, I'm going with you.' He played with a lot of heart."

oh horsepucky, the running game goes for 225 and plummer throws for under 200 yards, though efficiently, against a horrid defense and now he's good again?

hahahhahahahha.

[BMF Bronco]

oh horsepucky, the running game goes for 225 and plummer throws for under 200 yards, though efficiently, against a horrid defense and now he's good again?

hahahhahahahha.

Hey asshat, did you miss the Elway-esque bomb to kircus? Did you miss the scarmbling ability that kept us in drives, did you miss the precision throw in the end-zone to Javon? Yeah, he sucked it up didn't he?!

[Meck77]

Now to my point, I am on my way off of the Plummer bandwagon (whats left of it) for 2 reasons, !

Goodbye.......

Sure Jake had a TO. He got hammered when the pocket collapsed. People were freaking out that the Broncos O couldn't score. We hung 31. Should have been enough to beat the Colts had our D been able to hold just one drive.

Gotta give props to the Colts. They always seem to exploit one DB and just hammer away....

I'm not worried. We held our own vs one of the best teams in the league. The game could have gone either way.

Time to refocus and kill the Steelers!

[Popps]

Plummer and the offense re-took the lead at least twice after that sack, maybe three times... and tied the game one additional times.

So, let's not pretend that a forced fumble at that stage of the game was the difference.

When you're defense gives up 34 points, it's time to start admitting you have a problem.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Also, the ball he threw to Javon on the sdelines should have been caught. Javon short armed it.

[yavoon]

Hey asshat, did you miss the Elway-esque bomb to kircus? Did you miss the scarmbling ability that kept us in drives, did you miss the precision throw in the end-zone to Javon? Yeah, he sucked it up didn't he?!

he had an ok day against a horrible defense. if this is the standard, throwing long passes to wide open receivers and throwing under 200 yards and onlyc ompleting 13 passes for everyone to jump back on the plummer bandwagon then thats sad.

what happens next week when he plays a defense that isnt populated by ppl w/ under 3 years experience? and to a bigger question, can plummer have 6 bad games and 1 decent game against a horrid defense and the plummer homers claim victory? I swear if he completes a pass someone is gna post on this board saying "hah I told u! plummer is awesome!"

[Dedhed]

Anybody who has said Plummer can't throw the deep ball has to be eating crow today. That throw to Kircus was outstanding...:notworthy

Please. Kircus was open by 15 yards when Plummer threw it, and 2 yards by the time the ball floated down. To cite that a proof that Plummer has a good deep ball is insane.

[Crushaholic]

BTW, Indianapolis is #3 in pass defense. That was not a "horrible" pass defense that Plummer faced.

[BMF Bronco]

he had an ok day against a horrible defense. if this is the standard, throwing long passes to wide open receivers and throwing under 200 yards and onlyc ompleting 13 passes for everyone to jump back on the plummer bandwagon then thats sad.

what happens next week when he plays a defense that isnt populated by ppl w/ under 3 years experience? and to a bigger question, can plummer have 6 bad games and 1 decent game against a horrid defense and the plummer homers claim victory? I swear if he completes a pass someone is gna post on this board saying "hah I told u! plummer is awesome!"

Check the stats chico, Indy is one of the top passing D's in the league. Us Plummer apologists have to take these games for what they are, great games, becuase it's people like you who try to downplay everything he does! you were one of those who was calling for Maddux back in the ealry 90's weren't you?!

[yavoon]

BTW, Indianapolis is #3 in pass defense. That was not a "horrible" pass defense that Plummer faced.

indy gives up an average of 167.9 yards/game to be 'third' against the pass. plummer got 174.

ooooo!

[BMF Bronco]

Please. Kircus was open by 15 yards when Plummer threw it, and 2 yards by the time the ball floated down. To cite that a proof that Plummer has a good deep ball is insane.

it was across the field, it travelled over 50 yards in the air, how is that NOT a beautiful pass?! Phil Simms even made reference to how it was Elway-esque! What the hell do you people want from him?!

[yavoon]

Check the stats chico, Indy is one of the top passing D's in the league. Us Plummer apologists have to take these games for what they are, great games, becuase it's people like you who try to downplay everything he does! you were one of those who was calling for Maddux back in the ealry 90's weren't you?!

he got 6 more yards than what indy gives up on average. like I said, he had a decent game, he got about what a team 'normally gives up.' how this is encouraging I dont know, but I guess when ur so starved for plummer to do anything that doesn't make u hurl that this is good enough.

I think in the future everytime plummer completes a pass he will be praised.

[Rock Chalk]

Plummer and the offense re-took the lead at least twice after that sack, maybe three times... and tied the game one additional times.

So, let's not pretend that a forced fumble at that stage of the game was the difference.

When you're defense gives up 34 points, it's time to start admitting you have a problem.

Group think says the problem is Plummer. Never going to change their mind.

[Bronx33]

it was across the field, it travelled over 50 yards in the air, how is that NOT a beautiful pass?! Phil Simms even made reference to how it was Elway-esque! What the hell do you people want from him?!


I din't see anything wrong with that pass, infact i think it was a designed play executed to perfection now please don't bash me for being a plummer homer because iam not. But the fact is that play was done correctly and perfect i think some folks are expecting a frozen rope so kircus has time to do something with the ball but that play looked like it was designed to end out of bounds.

[BMF Bronco]

he got 6 more yards than what indy gives up on average. like I said, he had a decent game, he got about what a team 'normally gives up.' how this is encouraging I dont know, but I guess when ur so starved for plummer to do anything that doesn't make u hurl that this is good enough.

I think in the future everytime plummer completes a pass he will be praised.

How is it encouraging?! Well let's start with his passer rating, 104.1 which is only 3.8 points under arguably the best QB in the league's season rating, Manning who is at 107.9. Secondly let's quote John Clayton (one of Plummers biggest critics)...

"Still, the game went back and forth for the full 60 minutes. Despite starting slow, Jake Plummer played an excellent game. In the first half, he used his feet on option runs and in moving pockets. He scored on a 1-yard touchdown and took the Broncos into halftime with a 14-6 lead after connecting with Javon Walker on a 14-yard touchdown strike with 22 seconds left in the first half."

[24champ]

Plummer and the offense re-took the lead at least twice after that sack, maybe three times... and tied the game one additional times.


Funny nobody wants to talk about that. Everytime the colts scored we answered, just needed one STOP, that is what hurts about this loss. Our defense was drafted/built towards beating the Colts and we didn't get the job done. One consolation though, It's better to lose yesterday than later in the playoffs. I think this D is good enough to carry us to the SB, this is just one game and we need to finish out the season to play these SOBs again and prove we are worthy of the Lombardi.:thumbsup:

[BMF Bronco]

I din't see anything wrong with that pass, infact i think it was a designed play executed to perfection now please don't bash me for being a plummer homer because iam not. But the fact is that play was done correctly and perfect i think some folks are expecting a frozen rope so kircus has time to do something with the ball but that play looked like it was designed to end out of bounds.

Agreed 100%, and yes I am a Plummer homer, I just want to see the rest of these pricks give him credit where it's due!

[Sassy]

it was across the field, it travelled over 50 yards in the air, how is that NOT a beautiful pass?! Phil Simms even made reference to how it was Elway-esque! What the hell do you people want from him?!

They want a chance to blame him for everything...win or lose...so yeah, that includes the fumble...blah...I guess the playcalling doesn't matter, the D doesn't matter, the fact that Darrent couldn't cover Wayne doesn't matter...Does the fact that it is a TEAM WIN OR LOSS matter...hmmm probably not. While I'm not saying that the D totally sucked (we have to give some credit to the Colts O) ...they were the ones on the field giving up 34 points while our Offense ... especially Jake...kept them in the game. They looked confident while our D did not.

I was ready to throw Jake to the wolves last weekend in Cleveland after he gave up the ball in the redzone and the Browns capitalized with a TD...but this game, you couldn't ask for much more from your QB against one of the top offenses in the NFL.

I'll take Shanahan's word for it...

"He played very well," coach Mike Shanahan said of Plummer.

Said receiver Rod Smith: "He's taken a lot of shots, verbal shots. But that's not come from people in this locker room. It's like I tell him, 'Wherever you drive this car, I'm going with you.' He played with a lot of heart."

[yavoon]

How is it encouraging?! Well let's start with his passer rating, 104.1 which is only 3.8 points under arguably the best QB in the league's season rating, Manning who is at 107.9. Secondly let's quote John Clayton (one of Plummers biggest critics)...

"Still, the game went back and forth for the full 60 minutes. Despite starting slow, Jake Plummer played an excellent game. In the first half, he used his feet on option runs and in moving pockets. He scored on a 1-yard touchdown and took the Broncos into halftime with a 14-6 lead after connecting with Javon Walker on a 14-yard touchdown strike with 22 seconds left in the first half."

he completed 13 passes for about what the colts giveup and happened to not throw an int(though he fumbled). and the offense relied mostly on running the ball. this is pretty much what happens against the colts, if u replace the fumble w/ an int u'd drop his rating and it'd probably be what the colts normally give up.

this was an average game, calling it excellent is just ignoring all statistical evidence to the contrary. I swear we played exactly how other teams play against the colts. this is nothing to get a stiffy about. sure it wasn't the horrid ass performance we normally get, but thats because the colts let plummer escape and rollout for some damn reason. other teams will stop this and other teams will have vastly better defenses.

[BMF Bronco]

sure it wasn't the horrid ass performance we normally get, but thats because the colts let plummer escape and rollout for some damn reason. other teams will stop this and other teams will have vastly better defenses.

They let him escape and roll out?! funny, I could have sworn I saw him elude like three sacks, including one where the dude was on his back. Give the guy credit, he played well.

[yavoon]

They let him escape and roll out?! funny, I could have sworn I saw him elude like three sacks, including one where the dude was on his back. Give the guy credit, he played well.

the outside end was collapsing to chase down the run instead of keeping plummer contained. other teams wont do that.

I see now ur about nitpicking though.

[Sassy]

At least BMF knows what he's talking about...and can spell ;D

[BMF Bronco]

the outside end was collapsing to chase down the run instead of keeping plummer contained. other teams wont do that.

I see now ur about nitpicking though.

I am not nitpicking, merely pointing out good plays. What about the draw for the TD? Or what about the one where he gained the first down and got the late hit. Dude, he played well!

[yavoon]

I am not nitpicking, merely pointing out good plays. What about the draw for the TD? Or what about the one where he gained the first down and got the late hit. Dude, he played well!


so now that we see statistically his performance was pretty much exactly what the colts giveup, we're onto anecdotes. did u see that one time he made a play that was good! wow that proves it!

[Sassy]

Jake had runs for 1st downs...awesome throws and did not lose this game despite the fact that many think the fumble blew the game for us. His stats, while not "impressive" so to speak, did not tell the story of how he played. Gee, I can think of another game where the QB had crappy stats and it did not tell the story...of course, we won that game (SB 32) but we also had a D that day that showed up to play. If Jake didn't play well against Indy...we would have lost that game by 40 points!

[broncos_mtnman]

Please. Kircus was open by 15 yards when Plummer threw it, and 2 yards by the time the ball floated down. To cite that a proof that Plummer has a good deep ball is insane.

Absolutely correct!!

^5

[BMF Bronco]

Absolutely correct!!

^5

Hey jackass, how many interceptions did he throw yesterday?

-edit- why did you change the picture?!

[Sassy]

...and Jake also had a TD all by himself ;D

[broncos_mtnman]

Hey jackass, how many interceptions did he throw yesterday?

-edit- why did you change the picture?!

None, but that wasn't the question, was it?

my sig is a collection of random images that randomly post

[BMF Bronco]

None, but that wasn't the question, was it?

my sig is a collection of random images that randomly post

No it wasn't the question, but just as it was last week, you guys are bitching about a 50 yard reception, pure idiocy.

[Nomad]

None, but that wasn't the question, was it?

my sig is a collection of random images that randomly post

Are you the same douche bag that posts the same drivel at denverbroncos.com? If so, please go back there and don't ruin 2 Bronco forums for me...

[epicSocialism4tw]

Are you the same douche bag that posts the same drivel at denverbroncos.com? If so, please go back there and don't ruin 2 Bronco forums for me...

This one is very nearly ruined itself. I dont think that he will tip the scales.

[2KBack]

this whole "plummer only completed 13 passes" crap is getting old. Plummer completed 13 of 21, that's 62%, that's the kind of completion percentage you look for.

[Dedhed]

When you're defense gives up 34 points, it's time to start admitting you have a problem.
But not when your veteran QB is the least efficient in the league? Boy that Popps is objective isn't he?

[Dedhed]

Agreed 100%, and yes I am a Plummer homer, I just want to see the rest of these pricks give him credit where it's due!

Did you call Plummer 'crap' when it was due?

[BMF Bronco]

Did you call Plummer 'crap' when it was due?

I am an equal opportunity asshole, I call them as I see them

[Dedhed]

I am an equal opportunity a-hole, I call them as I see them
You didn't answer the question.

[Taco John]

Popps: When you're defense gives up 34 points, it's time to start admitting you have a problem.

Dedhed: But not when your veteran QB is the least efficient in the league? Boy that Popps is objective isn't he?




LOL ROFL! LOL ROFL!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Popps: When you're defense gives up 34 points, it's time to start admitting you have a problem.

Dedhed: But not when your veteran QB is the least efficient in the league? Boy that Popps is objective isn't he?


I dont think that Popps or any of the rest of us who werent keen on the idea of throwing a rookie into the starting lineup when the current starter has had a tangible record of success denied that Jake was not playing well. He was playing poorly for the most part, and that is not a question. The debate revolved around why it would not be beneficial to the Broncos and their chance to win a SB this season.

What is funny is your constant avoidance of your own failed ideas. You should be a politician.

[Sassy]

Here's some math for ya...Jake is what 37-13 and Cut hasn't played a down in the NFL yet...I'll take my chances with the veteran. (Although, in the 4th quarter last week against Cleveland, I would have thrown him to the wolves...;D )

[BMF Bronco]

You didn't answer the question.

Yes I did, I was critical of him over the past couple of weeks, but I was nowhere near ready to replace him with Cutler!

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . . . .What I want is a QB who will finish a game off

What I want is an entire dang team that can finish a game off. That final 6:54 was a team issue, not a Jake issue. 28-23 lead with 6:54 left and getting out-scored 11-3 at home with 6:54 left is a team issue, my friend.

[BroncoFanCam]

Hey jackass, how many interceptions did he throw yesterday?
So this is the standard Jake is held to now is it?

Instead of EXPECTING our QB to not throw INT's, now we praise him, when he doesn't throw an INT. Don't you see how sad that is?

What happened to praise coming for things like multiple TD's, great completetion %ages, high ratings of overall efficiency?

Now we are simply happy when he doesn't have multiple turnovers in a game... how utterly pathetic.

[Sassy]

We sure don't see many praising him on here for great throws, his running ability to get first downs (and a TD BTW) and his heart that's for sure...

...He's getting ragged on for his fumble...and let some are letting the D slide...(I don't see our team getting pissed at him for the fumble...)

[Taco John]

I don't know how much a quarterback should be praised for a 13 completion game against one of the worst defenses in the league... But I'll say this: his completion to Kircus across the field was very nice. It was refreshing to see a completed pass thrown across his body. It was also nice to see the deep pass to Javon, though I had the feeling that would be the last one of those we saw that game, for whatever reason that was.

Plummer did an effective job of managing the game for the few passes that he completed.

[Blueflame]

We sure don't see many praising him on here for great throws, his running ability to get first downs (and a TD BTW) and his heart that's for sure...

...He's getting ragged on for his fumble...and let some are letting the D slide...(I don't see our team getting pissed at him for the fumble...)

Any NFL QB who fumbles away the ball at his own 12-yard line should fully expect to be ragged on and held accountable for the mistake.

[BroncoFanCam]

Are you the same douche bag that posts the same drivel at denverbroncos.com? If so, please go back there and don't ruin 2 Bronco forums for me...http://www.wonderpuppy.net/misc2/cheesenwhinesm.gif

[BroncoFanCam]

I don't know how much a quarterback should be praised for a 13 completion game against one of the worst defenses in the league... But I'll say this: his completion to Kircus across the field was very nice. It was refreshing to see a completed pass thrown across his body. It was also nice to see the deep pass to Javon, though I had the feeling that would be the last one of those we saw that game, for whatever reason that was.

Plummer did an effective job of managing the game for the few passes that he completed.I'm just glad that duck came back down to earth, well designed play, and a well ran route.

It was a very good play...

[Sassy]

Any NFL QB who fumbles away the ball at his own 12-yard line should fully expect to be ragged on and held accountable for the mistake.

I'm not saying that...I'm saying that there are those that choose to put the blame soley on Jake and leave our pitiful attempt at a defense (3 TD's and 345 yards worth) out of the equation. You do sound like you are blaming the loss entirely on Jake.

[Rigs11]

But not when your veteran QB is the least efficient in the league? Boy that Popps is objective isn't he?

You're a stat whore. Nothing more. You can't even give Plummer props for playing a great game yesterday. Go on now, gotta keep up with that fantasy football...

[TheChamp247]

Using THIS game to jump off the Jake Plummer wagon is chicken****! Try not to **** up your already ****ed up face on the pavement on the way off.

why? this was the big game of the regular season, I supported him throught his struggles against medocire teams, knowing/hoping that he would get it together for a big game, to me it was his errors in the end that cost us, D kept it close enough for him to win (well as close as they could on a crappy day) and to me he blew it

[Bronco Billy]

Any NFL QB who fumbles away the ball at his own 12-yard line should fully expect to be ragged on and held accountable for the mistake.

The refs blew the whistle on the play and should of been in the grasp. Yes, Jake should of held onto the ball to avoid any conflict, bu the refs should have never allowed the challenge. I believe that continuation of a play after the whistle is good for the NFL, but a team should not be able to challenge a play when the whistle is blown for a QB who is "in the grasp" of a defender.

[Rigs11]

why? this was the big game of the regular season, I supported him throught his struggles against medocire teams, knowing/hoping that he would get it together for a big game, to me it was his errors in the end that cost us, D kept it close enough for him to win (well as close as they could on a crappy day) and to me he blew it

They kept it close enough to win???:rofl: :rofl: By giving up 34 points?What errors did Plummer have in the end?You mean making sure that Mike and Tatum didn't slip on that last series? Or covering Reggie Wayne?Dude you're really grasping.

[Sassy]

Don't you know Rigs...Jake is always responsible for what the Bronco D does... ;D

[Blueflame]

I'm not saying that...I'm saying that there are those that choose to put the blame soley on Jake and leave our pitiful attempt at a defense (3 TD's and 345 yards worth) out of the equation. You do sound like you are blaming the loss entirely on Jake.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the loss and while Plummer's fumble wasn't the only factor, by any means, those 7 points certainly didn't help the Broncos' cause.

The plethora of "our defense sucks" threads kinda tick me off... our "D" is the primary reason we have 5 wins (it certainly hasn't been because of our 31st-ranked offense). We might be fighting the Fade for the division cellar if they hadn't been playing so very well all season long.

Mostly, I'm just testy because the team lost. I always hate that.

[Sassy]

Yes...the D can be given credit for the five wins...but on the other hand, our offense kept us in this game...mistakes or not.

[Blueflame]

The refs blew the whistle on the play and should of been in the grasp. Yes, Jake should of held onto the ball to avoid any conflict, bu the refs should have never allowed the challenge. I believe that continuation of a play after the whistle is good for the NFL, but a team should not be able to challenge a play when the whistle is blown for a QB who is "in the grasp" of a defender.

From what I understand the rule changed this season and the correct call was made.

[Blueflame]

Yes...the D can be given credit for the five wins...but on the other hand, our offense kept us in this game...mistakes or not.

Nonetheless, Plummer cannot be described as "virtually blameless" in the loss when he did make a mistake that cost the team 7 points.

[TheChamp247]

They kept it close enough to win???:rofl: :rofl: By giving up 34 points?What errors did Plummer have in the end?You mean making sure that Mike and Tatum didn't slip on that last series? Or covering Reggie Wayne?Dude you're really grasping.

when i say they kept it close enough to win im comparing it to the previous playoff losses where we were done by half time and the reason we scored in the second half was because they put in their back ups, and the fact that if you take away the fumble that Jake had, ill assume they get a FG from that drive, making it 30-31 F, With Mike and Tatum sliping on the last series, i do believe plummer tripped them up at least 2 times, and i have never expected plummer to play all positions, if you read the original post you would know i have fully supported him through all his years here and his ups and downs, but the game was there for him to win, he is the QB and that responsibility falls on him, its just the way it goes. Im not a "Plummer Basher" im simply fed up with the inconsistancy

[Crushaholic]

Nonetheless, Plummer cannot be described as "virtually blameless" in the loss when he did make a mistake that cost the team 7 points.

7 out of 34 points is virtually insignificant...

[Popps]

There is plenty of blame to go around for the loss and while Plummer's fumble wasn't the only factor.

Right, plenty of blame... all of which should go to a total defensive collapse.

Plummer's forced fumble was made up for THREE TIMES be he and the offense, only to have the defense piss it away three more times.

[Blueflame]

7 out of 34 points is virtually insignificant...

Take away that 7 points and we win by 4...

[Sassy]

Take away that 7 points and we win by 4...

Take any stop by the D including a FG instead of a TD and we still win...same thing.

[Bronco Billy]

From what I understand the rule changed this season and the correct call was made.

I understand the rule changed for "continuation of a play" so it can be reversed with instant replay. I don't think that covers a ref blowing the whistle for "in the grasp" to protect the QB. However, I may be mistaken as to why the whistle was blown. If Plummer doesn't fumble, there's nothing to discuss. I'm just upset the Colts where allowed to challenge the play.

[Bronco Billy]

Take away that 7 points and we win by 4...

...assuming the Colts wouldn't have scored a TD on the last drive. They still had plenty of time on the clock.

[TheChamp247]

7 out of 34 points is virtually insignificant...

34-31=LOSS
27-31=WIN

Insignificant? no, not really? hell give them a FG on that drive assuming we punt still 30-31, and that is with the 2pt conversion they had later in the game

[Blueflame]

Right, plenty of blame... all of which should go to a total defensive collapse.

Plummer's forced fumble was made up for THREE TIMES be he and the offense, only to have the defense piss it away three more times.

Plummer gets his slice of the "accountability pie" too.

[Blueflame]

I understand the rule changed for "continuation of a play" so it can be reversed with instant replay. I don't think that covers a ref blowing the whistle for "in the grasp" to protect the QB. However, I may be mistaken as to why the whistle was blown. If Plummer doesn't fumble, there's nothing to discuss. I'm just upset the Colts where allowed to challenge the play.

Special teams probably shoulda been a tad quicker on getting the punt kicked.

[epicSocialism4tw]

why? this was the big game of the regular season, I supported him throught his struggles against medocire teams, knowing/hoping that he would get it together for a big game, to me it was his errors in the end that cost us, D kept it close enough for him to win (well as close as they could on a crappy day) and to me he blew it


The D didnt keep anything close. They literally didnt get a stop for the entire fourth quarter, and the only thing that stopped the Clots once they got rolling was halftime.

No matter where you fall on the Jake/Cutler issue, it was pretty plain to see yesterday that the defense lost that game. If you want to point out the one mistake that Plummer made, you should also point out the complete failure to stop the Clots play after play after play after play after play after play after play after play ad infinitum.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Right, plenty of blame... all of which should go to a total defensive collapse.
Plummer's forced fumble was made up for THREE TIMES be he and the offense, only to have the defense piss it away three more times.

Some people just will not give the guy a break. At this point this is what we are seeing here on orangemane. In a game that Jake clearly made much more of a contribution to the win than the loss, people still want to dogpile the man.

If were pointing to individual plays as the crux of the flow of events to the outcome, Im going to point to Plummer's perfect fade pass to Walker that put the Broncos in the lead 14-6 heading into halftime. Halftime was the last time that the Clots offense was stopped, and our offense had given the defense an 8 point advantage to work with.

[maven]

I'm not surprised people are jumping off the Jake Plummer bandwagon. Peyton found a weak link in our defense and ABUSED him. Plummer, never ever going to take adavantage of a CB.

[TheChamp247]

The D didnt keep anything close. They literally didnt get a stop for the entire fourth quarter, and the only thing that stopped the Clots once they got rolling was halftime.

No matter where you fall on the Jake/Cutler issue, it was pretty plain to see yesterday that the defense lost that game. If you want to point out the one mistake that Plummer made, you should also point out the complete failure to stop the Clots play after play after play after play after play after play after play after play ad infinitum.

Im not saying that the defense was flawless and they didn't have a part, im just sayin that this game was close till the end and it came down to on the field decision making, i.e. the 3rd and 9 play

[SprintRightOption]

why? this was the big game of the regular season, I supported him throught his struggles against medocire teams, knowing/hoping that he would get it together for a big game, to me it was his errors in the end that cost us, D kept it close enough for him to win (well as close as they could on a crappy day) and to me he blew it

This has to be nominated for the Worst Post of the Year.

You do realize that the Colts scored on every possession in the second half and the reason the Colts didn't score as much as the playoff games is because our offense held the ball for long drives and scored points.

You said in your first post on this thread that the D was still strong but not as dominant. The D was horrible, and this is not the 2004 record breaking Colts O, this is the same offense that needed a late score at home to beat the lowly Titans 14-13, and the same Colts O that scored 14 points at home against the Jags.

Good thing you pointed out that Plummer "choked" in the end by somehow avoiding a sure sack enough to give Elam a realistic shot in the end. Unbelievable!

And yavoon, have you EVER said anything good about the Broncos, even once? You were a huge Chargers fan in 2004, and never said anything good about the Broncos in the 13-3 season last year.

[Taco John]

You do realize that the Colts scored on every possession in the second half and the reason the Colts didn't score as much as the playoff games is because our offense held the ball for long drives and scored points.



This is an excellent point... Jeez, I wonder who has tried to make this point before... I woooonder who it could have been... Who could it have beeeeen?

It's coming to me... Give me a minute...

[epicSocialism4tw]

This is an excellent point... Jeez, I wonder who has tried to make this point before... I woooonder who it could have been... Who could it have beeeeen?
It's coming to me... Give me a minute...

Aw, come on Taco. You're a big proponent of groupthink=truth. I guess that anyone who agrees with Popps' argument is wrong, and your groupthink garbagecan is the correct one to toss ideas into.

[SprintRightOption]

This is an excellent point... Jeez, I wonder who has tried to make this point before... I woooonder who it could have been... Who could it have beeeeen?

It's coming to me... Give me a minute...

Okay, point taken.

But I'm not sure that means our offense choked in those playoff games. Slow start or FG instead of TD and BAM it's 21-3 and we can't play the same game we played this week of eating the clock and matching their scores in the second half.

[mattbeymvp]

Im not saying that the defense was flawless and they didn't have a part, im just sayin that this game was close till the end and it came down to on the field decision making, i.e. the 3rd and 9 play

So the final minute and a half of the game didn't matter?

[BroncoFanCam]

You're a stat whore. Nothing more. You can't even give Plummer props for playing a great game yesterday. Go on now, gotta keep up with that fantasy football...My how our expectations have fallen...

When you call that performance great (not, average, not above average, not good - but GREAT) we have a serius problem.

Great is what Peyton did, Average is what Jake managed compare and learn.

If you think Jake has a hope in Hell of commanding on offense down the field the way Peyton did, you are a homer, plain and simple.

It was a far cry from greatness.

[fontaine]

Plummer and the offense re-took the lead at least twice after that sack, maybe three times... and tied the game one additional times.

So, let's not pretend that a forced fumble at that stage of the game was the difference.

When you're defense gives up 34 points, it's time to start admitting you have a problem.


Stop exaggerating. A couple of players had two quarters of lousy, horrible football. So why are you pinning the blame on the entire D?

For the rest of the year, most of the D has played great to elite, and 2 quarters of football doesn't define any team over the first half of the season.

Our Defense will continue to play well because that's what they've done all year long. Every player has a bad game now and then and DWill had a nightmare.

If these players, like DWill, slump for the next 7-8 games then WE HAVE A PROBLEM.

[fontaine]

You're a stat whore. Nothing more. You can't even give Plummer props for playing a great game yesterday. Go on now, gotta keep up with that fantasy football...

If Plummer played a "great" game against an injury plagued defense where he completed all of 13 passes, then all hail the 2nd coming of the Lord Jesus Manning.

Because Peyton throwing for 345 yards, 32 of 39 passes for 3 TDs against one of the best defenses in the league would be Godlike by your measure.

[-Slap-]

If Plummer played a "great" game against an injury plagued defense where he completed all of 13 passes, then all hail the 2nd coming of the Lord Jesus Manning.

Because Peyton throwing for 345 yards, 32 of 39 passes for 3 TDs against one of the best defenses in the league would be Godlike by your measure.

Plummer makes just enough plays to lose and he's hailed as Johnny Unitas. You can only shake your head and laugh at these people, Fontaine.

[fontaine]

Plummer makes just enough plays to lose and he's hailed as Johnny Unitas. You can only shake your head and laugh at these people, Fontaine.

I'm still trying to figure out what game these people were watching?

In the 2nd half when this offense needed to put up points, the running game went for 179 yards, two TDs, in 20 rushing attempts.

At the same time Jake went 6/10, 46 yards, 1 fumble, and we've got people proclaiming Jake played great, did good etc.

Yeah Jake had a decent game and didn't commit his usual multiple mistakes but the major reason why we were still in the game at all was because of our running game.

At least we still have high standards for the running game. Has anyone even created a thread for Mike Bell getting his first 100 yard game?

:rofl:

-edit- Just saw one running game related thread!

[-Slap-]

At the same time Jake went 6/10, 46 yards, 1 fumble, and we've got people proclaiming Jake played great, did good etc.

Jake decided to change his MO in big games from not showing up until halftime to disappearing in the second half.

[fontaine]

Jake decided to change his MO in big games from not showing up until halftime to disappearing in the second half.

I genuinely feel bad for the guy because I suspect he's a fiery competitor at heart and secretly despises his lack of "involvement" in the offense. Right now, he's like the short kid with glasses, and man boobs that gets picked last for b-ball and told to not get in anyone's way!

[Dedhed]

You're a stat whore. Nothing more. You can't even give Plummer props for playing a great game yesterday. Go on now, gotta keep up with that fantasy football...
I'm a perfomance whore. Jake has sucked. He's had a handful of nice plays this year scattered amongst mind numbing ineptitude for a 10 year veteran. He was fine on Sunday, but there is a very good reason he only threw for 170-something yards despite completing over 60% of his passes. Shanahan doesn't trust him to throw the ball, and has to go to great lengths to keep him from destroying any chance at all of winning.

Edit- It's sad when as long as your QB doesn't throw 3 INTs his performance is touted as "great".

[Meck77]

Here's some math for ya...Jake is what 37-13 and Cut hasn't played a down in the NFL yet..)

37-13 Amazing isn't it....

I wonder if we'll have as much success under Cutler. You'd think so. All the signs are there but you just never know.

Time will tell.....

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

37-13 Amazing isn't it....

I wonder if we'll have as much success under Cutler. You'd think so. All the signs are there but you just never know.

Time will tell.....

Yep - Tony Mandrich, Ryan Leaf and Mike Malamua looked great in preseason too.

[Bronco Bob]

Shanahan doesn't trust him to throw the ball, and has to go to great lengths to keep him from destroying any chance at all of winning.


Cutler was the one who tossed the 45 yard completion to Kircus?
Cutler was the one who threw the 15 yard TD to Walker?
Cutler was the one who threw to Scheffler for a for 27 yard gain?
Denver is a run first team. Denver was having great success
running the ball. It would be silly to expect Shanahan to have
Jake start tossing the ball every down just to pad Jake's stats
when by running the ball you eat up the clock and wear down
the opposing defense. If Cutler was in there it still would have
been run, run, run, run, pass, run, run, run, run, pass. Plus
maybe a few ints and sacks thrown in for good measure.
Shanahan had Jake pass the ball when he needed Jake to
pass the ball. If he didn't trust Jake, Jake wouldn't be in the game.
And passing isn't everything in a QB. Jake kept several drives
alive with his feet by rolling out and scrambling. Has Cutler
proven he has the ability to roll out and scramble like Jake
can do?
:~ohyah!:

[Dedhed]

Cutler was the one who tossed the 45 yard completion to Kircus?
Cutler was the one who threw the 15 yard TD to Walker?
Cutler was the one who threw to Scheffler for a for 27 yard gain?
Denver is a run first team. Denver was having great success
running the ball. It would be silly to expect Shanahan to have
Jake start tossing the ball every down just to pad Jake's stats
when by running the ball you eat up the clock and wear down
the opposing defense. If Cutler was in there it still would have
been run, run, run, run, pass, run, run, run, run, pass. Plus
maybe a few ints and sacks thrown in for good measure.
Shanahan had Jake pass the ball when he needed Jake to
pass the ball. If he didn't trust Jake, Jake wouldn't be in the game.
And passing isn't everything in a QB. Jake kept several drives
alive with his feet by rolling out and scrambling. Has Cutler
proven he has the ability to roll out and scramble like Jake
can do?
:~ohyah!:
WHo said anything about Cutler? Jake rolled out and scrambled b/c Shanahan knows that every time Jake puts the ball in the air its a risky proposition. He doesn't trust Jake.

Cutler hasn't thrown a single interception in the NFL. See how short-sighted that sounds?

[TheChamp247]

So the final minute and a half of the game didn't matter?

final minuet and a half would have consisted of us moving in for the winning TD or running the clock out and kicking the tying FG if plummer runs, D got screwed in that situation, Manning is the King of the 2 minuet drill