Michael J. Fox plunges into elections

[Dagmar]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15405455/

Parkinson's disease sufferer pitches for stem cell research supporters

NEW YORK - The symptoms of Parkinson's disease that all but ended Michael J. Fox's acting career are making him a powerfully vulnerable campaign pitchman for five Democrats who support stem cell research.

In 30-second TV ads for Rep. Benjamin L. Cardin, who is running for the Senate in Maryland, Senate candidate Claire McCaskill in Missouri and Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle, Fox shakes and rocks as he directly addresses the camera, making no effort to hide the effects of his disease.

In the McCaskill ad, which has been viewed by more than 1 million people on YouTube.com,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9WB_PXjTBo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMliHkTDHaE&mode=related&search=


Fox tells voters, "What you do in Missouri matters to millions of Americans. Americans like me."

He also was planning to appear at events for Sen. Robert Menendez of New Jersey and Tammy Duckworth, a candidate for Congress from Illinois.

Potential tie-breaker?
Celebrities have a long history of supporting political candidates. But there's no question that Fox, who campaigned for John Kerry in the 2004 presidential race, is uniquely suited as a spokesman for embryonic stem cell research, which some scientists believe could aid in discovering treatments or cures to Parkinson's and other diseases.

Fox's ads may even turn the close Senate race between McCaskill and Republican incumbent Jim Talent in Missouri, said Larry Sabato, a professor at the University of Virginia and director of its Center for Politics. He described the spots as "very powerful."

"If a tiny ad can change votes, this one ought to," said Sabato. "This is real. He's not playing a guy with Parkinson's - he IS a guy with Parkinson's."

Parkinson's disease is a chronic, progressive disorder of the central nervous system that leaves patients increasingly unable to control their movements. In his ads, Fox shows a remarkable nakedness that recalls Dick Clark's appearance last Dec. 31 on ABC's "New Year's Rockin' Eve," displaying the effects of his debilitating stroke a year prior.

Parkinson's victim
Fox was diagnosed with Parkinson's in 1991 and revealed his condition publicly in 1998. In 2000, the "Spin City" and "Back to the Future" star quit full-time acting because of his symptoms and founded the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research, which has raised millions of dollars.

He has since acted sporadically in smaller roles, such as in a several-episode guest appearance earlier this year on ABC's "Boston Legal," playing a business tycoon with cancer. For that role and others, Fox generally has sought to control his movements. He told The Associated Press in January that one long scene was physically taxing and that because of his illness, he "can't show up with a game plan."

In the same interview, Fox said he felt sympathy for Clark, who received a mixed reaction for his New Year's appearance.

Similarly, some have criticized Fox's ads as exploitive. Conservative radio commentator Rush Limbaugh claimed Fox was "either off his medication or acting" during the ad.

Others defend Fox's aggressive campaigning for a Parkinson's cure. Dr. John Boockvar, a neurosurgeon and assistant professor at Weill Cornell Medical Center at New York's Presbyterian Hospital, called Limbaugh's claim that Fox was acting "ludicrous." Boockvar said those with Parkinson's have "on" and "off" spells.

"If there is one single disease that has the highest potential for benefit from stem cell research," Boockwar said Tuesday, "it's Parkinson's."

[Dagmar]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15408508/

Limbaugh mocks Michael J. Fox political ad

Conservative talk show host accuses actor of faking Parkinson's disease

Possibly worse than making fun of someone's disability is saying that it's imaginary. That is not to mock someone's body, but to challenge a person's guts, integrity, sanity.

To Rush Limbaugh on Monday, Michael J. Fox looked like a faker. The actor, who suffers from Parkinson's disease, has done a series of political ads supporting candidates who favor stem cell research, including Maryland Democrat Ben Cardin, who is running against Republican Michael Steele for the Senate seat being vacated by Paul Sarbanes.

"He is exaggerating the effects of the disease," Limbaugh told listeners. "He's moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act. . . . This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox. Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting."

Limbaugh, whose syndicated radio program has a weekly audience of about 10 million, was reacting to Fox's appearance in another one of the spots, for Missouri Democrat Claire McCaskill, running against Republican Sen. James M. Talent.

But the Cardin ad is similar. It is hard to watch, unless, for some reason, you don't believe it. As he speaks, Fox's restless torso weaves and writhes in a private dance. His head bobs from side to side, almost leaving the video frame.

"This is the only time I've ever seen Michael J. Fox portray any of the symptoms of the disease he has," Limbaugh said. "He can barely control himself."

'A shameless statement'
Later Monday, still on the air, Limbaugh would apologize, but reaction to his statements from Parkinson's experts and Fox's supporters was swift and angry.

"It's a shameless statement," John Rogers said yesterday. Rogers, Fox's political adviser, who also serves on the board of the Parkinson's Action Network, added: "It's insulting. It's appallingly sad, at best."

"Anyone who knows the disease well would regard his movement as classic severe Parkinson's disease," said Elaine Richman, a neuroscientist in Baltimore who co-wrote "Parkinson's Disease and the Family." "Any other interpretation is misinformed."

Fox was campaigning yesterday for Tammy Duckworth, a congressional candidate, outside Chicago, when he alluded to Limbaugh's remarks. "It's ironic, given some of the things that have been said in the last couple of days, that my pills are working really well right now," he said, according to a report on the CBS2 Web site.

After his apology, Limbaugh shifted his ground and renewed his attack on Fox.

"Now people are telling me they have seen Michael J. Fox in interviews and he does appear the same way in the interviews as he does in this commercial," Limbaugh said, according to a transcript on his Web site. "All right then, I stand corrected. . . . So I will bigly, hugely admit that I was wrong, and I will apologize to Michael J. Fox, if I am wrong in characterizing his behavior on this commercial as an act."

Then Limbaugh pivoted to a different critique: "Michael J. Fox is allowing his illness to be exploited and in the process is shilling for a Democratic politician."

'Hope to millions of Americans'
Limbaugh's shock at Fox's appearance is a measure of the disease's devastation, advocates say. Contrary to the charge that Fox might not take his medicine to enhance his symptoms, the medicine produces some of the uncontrolled body movements.

"Stem cell research offers hope to millions of Americans with diseases like diabetes, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's," Fox says in the Cardin ad. "But George Bush and Michael Steele would put limits on the most promising stem cell research."

Fox has appeared in ABC's "Boston Legal" this season. In his scenes, taped over the summer, Fox does not shake or loll his head as he does in the Cardin commercial, but does appear to be restraining himself, appearing almost rigid at times.

A source with direct knowledge of Fox's illness who viewed the Cardin ad said Fox is not acting to exaggerate the effects of the disease. The source said Fox's scenes in "Boston Legal" had to be taped around his illness, as he worked to control the tremors associated with Parkinson's for limited periods of time.

Staff writer Frank Ahrens contributed to this report.
© 2006 The Washington Post Company

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15408508/

Limbaugh mocks Michael J. Fox political ad

Conservative talk show host accuses actor of faking Parkinson's disease


:pity:

Just when you think that fat, drug-addled POS can't possibly sink any lower...

[Barry Ramey]

Then again, I believe a few years ago, Fox wrote a book and in it, he admits when he testifies before Congress and other committees, he would often not take his medication beforehand. Did he do this for these spots? It's possible.

Besides, he's not telling the truth in the ads anyway. There is no ban on stem cell research. They use adult stem cells right now with postive results. he and his like want embryonic stem cells to be used and so far, when they have used them it has not been successful. Seems Fox and others would be wise to concentrate more on the research and use of the stem cells that have shown to be more promising and not lying that certain politicians are against stem cell research just because they are against the use of embryos, which again, when they have used those, it hasn't worked well at all.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Then again, I believe a few years ago, Fox wrote a book and in it, he admits when he testifies before Congress and other committees, he would often not take his medication beforehand. Did he do this for these spots? It's possible.

Besides, he's not telling the truth in the ads anyway. There is no ban on stem cell research. They use adult stem cells right now with postive results. he and his like want embryonic stem cells to be used and so far, when they have used them it has not been successful. Seems Fox and others would be wise to concentrate more on the research and use of the stem cells that have shown to be more promising and not lying that certain politicians are against stem cell research just because they are against the use of embryos, which again, when they have used those, it hasn't worked well at all.


Your ignorant on so many levels it's pretty embarrassing.
The Bush administration is preventing federal funds to be used for stem cell research.

And post your links for showing Fox is FAKING his symptoms.

Defending Limbaugh's accusation's that Fox is faking the disease puts you in the exact same scumbag fraternity he heads up.

[Orange_Beard]

Then again, I believe a few years ago, Fox wrote a book and in it, he admits when he testifies before Congress and other committees, he would often not take his medication beforehand. Did he do this for these spots? It's possible.


What's wrong with showing what the disease is really doing to him?

Right now the drugs treat the symptoms (shaking et. al), his "medications" are not curing him.

[defenseman]

Then again, I believe a few years ago, Fox wrote a book and in it, he admits when he testifies before Congress and other committees, he would often not take his medication beforehand. Did he do this for these spots? It's possible.

Besides, he's not telling the truth in the ads anyway. There is no ban on stem cell research. They use adult stem cells right now with postive results. he and his like want embryonic stem cells to be used and so far, when they have used them it has not been successful. Seems Fox and others would be wise to concentrate more on the research and use of the stem cells that have shown to be more promising and not lying that certain politicians are against stem cell research just because they are against the use of embryos, which again, when they have used those, it hasn't worked well at all.

Agreed. Not all the facts were presented, again I might add. status quo for the "shock and awe" ads now being presented to the voters. Fox's ad in my opinion, will backfire on the dems. Do I feel bad for Fox, sure I think we all do. Do I feel worse when I know only half the truth hit the airwaves. Yep....pretty sad display. Predicting it will turn the other way vice what they wanted...dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Agreed. Not all the facts were presented, again I might add. status quo for the "shock and awe" ads now being presented to the voters. Fox's ad in my opinion, will backfire on the dems. Do I feel bad for Fox, sure I think we all do. Do I feel worse when I know only half the truth hit the airwaves. Yep....pretty sad display. Predicting it will turn the other way vice what they wanted...dman
Agreeing with Ramey and Limbaugh puts you right there with them, congrats!

Dr. John Boockvar, a neurosurgeon and assistant professor at Weill Cornell Medical Center at New York's Presbyterian Hospital, called Limbaugh's claim that Fox was acting "ludicrous." Boockvar said those with Parkinson's have "on" and "off" spells.

"If there is one single disease that has the highest potential for benefit from stem cell research," Boockvar said Tuesday, "it's Parkinson's."

[Spider]

Agreed. Not all the facts were presented, again I might add. status quo for the "shock and awe" ads now being presented to the voters. Fox's ad in my opinion, will backfire on the dems. Do I feel bad for Fox, sure I think we all do. Do I feel worse when I know only half the truth hit the airwaves. Yep....pretty sad display. Predicting it will turn the other way vice what they wanted...dman
good case of stupid .......... Half truth ?
I have an aunt with Parkinsons , I would like to hear your half truth ..........
No I am not picking on you , Barrey is to stupid to deal with .......... Perhaps you are also . we will find out .............

[TheDave]

Then again, I believe a few years ago, Fox wrote a book and in it, he admits when he testifies before Congress and other committees, he would often not take his medication beforehand. Did he do this for these spots? It's possible.

Besides, he's not telling the truth in the ads anyway. There is no ban on stem cell research. They use adult stem cells right now with postive results. he and his like want embryonic stem cells to be used and so far, when they have used them it has not been successful. Seems Fox and others would be wise to concentrate more on the research and use of the stem cells that have shown to be more promising and not lying that certain politicians are against stem cell research just because they are against the use of embryos, which again, when they have used those, it hasn't worked well at all.

Your knowledge of Stem Cell research is so pathetic i'm not sure why i'm wasting my time. Adult stem cells have not shown ANY of the promise that fetal stem cells have. Saying that fetal stem cell "Have not worked at all" is nothing short of a lie.

Stick to the non science talking points...

[Rohirrim]

The Rush pig oinks again. I'm still waiting for some member of the free and open press of Florida to answer this question: Why was a bunch of unprescribed Viagra found in Rush's luggage when he returned from Dominica, a place known to specialize in child prostitution and sex tourism?

It was such an odd little story. Rush busted in Palm Beach Customs with unprescribed Viagra. Nobody ever asked even the simplest question. Why? Follow up? None.

[Orange_Beard]

Your knowledge of Stem Cell research is so pathetic i'm not sure why i'm wasting my time. Adult stem cells have not shown ANY of the promise that fetal stem cells have. Saying that fetal stem cell "Have not worked at all" is nothing short of a lie.

Stick to the non science talking points...

I might be worth "dropping" a few stem cells on this guys brain.

[TheDave]

I might be worth "dropping" a few stem cells on this guys brain.

Unfortunately they would be adult stem cells which do not have the ability to convert to brain tissue... Sucks to be him.

[Barry Ramey]

Geez, do people around here get their "news" and "info" from lefty blog sites or something? The Bush admin. is against federal funding for EMBRYONIC stem cell research. In fact, what admin. has done the most funding for stem cell research? The current Bush admin. It's the truth, but yeah, won't find that in the lefty blogs :thumbsup:

The stupid ones are the ones that believe and lie about embryonic stem cell working. if you call people developing tumors as something great, so be it.

The Bush admin. is not pushing for a law to stop it either. Nothing says private companies can't get involved with research and development of using embryos. There is no law right now that says you can't. Just not government won't fund it, which for those that have troubles understanding, doesn't make it illegal.

It amazes me the myths that get generated from the left, but my guess is they got their "education" from the Ward Churchill types.

[Barry Ramey]

And here's more from Neal Boortz about it:

http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

http://boortz.com/images/plink.gif (http://boortz.com/nuze/200610/10252006.html#mjfox)MICHAEL J. FOX'S STEM CELL ADS

http://boortz.com/images/michael_j_fox.jpgIn an attempt to elect more Democrats, Hollywood actor Michael J. Fox is recording campaign commercials for Democrats. The most-talked about one is in Missouri [watch it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMliHkTDHaE)], where Republican Senator Jim Talent is running for re-election against Democrat Claire McCaskill. The polls currently show it's a dead heat, with maybe Talent up by a few points...but still under 50 percent. This is going to be a close one.

Enter Michael J. Fox.

Hollywood celebrities recording campaign commercials endorsing one candidate or another are nothing new. It happens all the time. But in this case Fox, the popular actor currently suffering from the effects of Parkinson's disease, has produced ads that are deceptive. The issue is federal funding embryonic stem cell research....and Michael J. Fox is the new stooge in the Democratic Party's campaign of deception.

Like a lot of Republicans, Talent is opposed to federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. Aided by the mainstream media, Democrats have been advancing the lie for several years now that if you're opposed to the federal funding of something...then that means you want to ban it. Not so...in fact, what administration has provided more federal funding for stem cell research than another other? Your answer: the current Bush Administration.
I admire Michael J. Fox. I admire his courage in facing this horrible disease. I, too, want to see more research in this area. I admit to having a problem with the taxpayers funding that research. Is it a proper function of government? Or of private research institutions? My big problem here is that perhaps these ads are convincing voters that the Bush Administration and the Republicans are somehow working for a total ban. That's just not so.

If there is so much promise and so many cures to be had from embryonic stem cell research, then there is absolutely nothing stopping private companies from pursuing it. Embryonic stem cell research is not illegal...never has been. It just the Democrats exploit people like Michael J. Fox to attack candidates opposed to federal funding. But don't believe the hype....embryonic stem cell research is not now, nor has it ever been, illegal.

[defenseman]

And here's more from Neal Boortz about it:

http://boortz.com/nuze/index.html

http://boortz.com/images/plink.gif (http://boortz.com/nuze/200610/10252006.html#mjfox)MICHAEL J. FOX'S STEM CELL ADS

http://boortz.com/images/michael_j_fox.jpgIn an attempt to elect more Democrats, Hollywood actor Michael J. Fox is recording campaign commercials for Democrats. The most-talked about one is in Missouri [watch it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMliHkTDHaE)], where Republican Senator Jim Talent is running for re-election against Democrat Claire McCaskill. The polls currently show it's a dead heat, with maybe Talent up by a few points...but still under 50 percent. This is going to be a close one.

Enter Michael J. Fox.

Hollywood celebrities recording campaign commercials endorsing one candidate or another are nothing new. It happens all the time. But in this case Fox, the popular actor currently suffering from the effects of Parkinson's disease, has produced ads that are deceptive. The issue is federal funding embryonic stem cell research....and Michael J. Fox is the new stooge in the Democratic Party's campaign of deception.

Like a lot of Republicans, Talent is opposed to federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. Aided by the mainstream media, Democrats have been advancing the lie for several years now that if you're opposed to the federal funding of something...then that means you want to ban it. Not so...in fact, what administration has provided more federal funding for stem cell research than another other? Your answer: the current Bush Administration.
I admire Michael J. Fox. I admire his courage in facing this horrible disease. I, too, want to see more research in this area. I admit to having a problem with the taxpayers funding that research. Is it a proper function of government? Or of private research institutions? My big problem here is that perhaps these ads are convincing voters that the Bush Administration and the Republicans are somehow working for a total ban. That's just not so.

If there is so much promise and so many cures to be had from embryonic stem cell research, then there is absolutely nothing stopping private companies from pursuing it. Embryonic stem cell research is not illegal...never has been. It just the Democrats exploit people like Michael J. Fox to attack candidates opposed to federal funding. But don't believe the hype....embryonic stem cell research is not now, nor has it ever been, illegal.

Very true. And the reason why I don't buy into michael J. Fox's plea for help. Deceptive at the minumum, excluding the truth at the maximum. His ad is pretty much worthless because of it...dman

[TheDave]

Geez, do people around here get their "news" and "info" from lefty blog sites or something? The Bush admin. is against federal funding for EMBRYONIC stem cell research. In fact, what admin. has done the most funding for stem cell research? The current Bush admin. It's the truth, but yeah, won't find that in the lefty blogs :thumbsup:

The stupid ones are the ones that believe and lie about embryonic stem cell working. if you call people developing tumors as something great, so be it.

The Bush admin. is not pushing for a law to stop it either. Nothing says private companies can't get involved with research and development of using embryos. There is no law right now that says you can't. Just not government won't fund it, which for those that have troubles understanding, doesn't make it illegal.

It amazes me the myths that get generated from the left, but my guess is they got their "education" from the Ward Churchill types.

again stick to the non scientific talking points... your in way over your head on this subject.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Very true. And the reason why I don't buy into michael J. Fox's plea for help. Deceptive at the minumum, excluding the truth at the maximum. His ad is pretty much worthless because of it...dman
Hilarious!
The ya ya man chimes in with "I agree but I'm not sure what I agree with". But if it's something bad against Bush then ya ya, I agree.

[Barry Ramey]

Um yeah, Mr. Science or is it Mr. Wizard? Stick to telling the truth and maybe playing with your Matchbox cars :wave:


again stick to the non scientific talking points... your in way over your head on this subject.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Your knowledge of Stem Cell research is so pathetic i'm not sure why i'm wasting my time. Adult stem cells have not shown ANY of the promise that fetal stem cells have. Saying that fetal stem cell "Have not worked at all" is nothing short of a lie.

Stick to the non science talking points...
Bushbot Ramey is ignorant on so many fronts he's pushing Errant for the new board clown.

[TheDave]

Here is a simple bit of education for Barry and Dman....

Fetal stem cells are "pluripotent" meaning that they can become/mimic any cell in the body except placental tissue.

Adult stem cells are "multipotent" meaning that they are limited to what they can replicate... blood stem cells can replicate most cells found in blood. This is why they are currently used in bone marrow transplants.

The reason for using embryonic stem cells is because of their flexibility. Not only does it shorten research time because of their ease to harvest but their flexibility is endless. On the other hand adult stem cells are much more difficult to harvest and culture while their uses are very specific and limited.

Point is we need to continue research on both fronts. The reason our republican led government has not properly supported this research is political only. First they are making their case for the simple minded people that compare this to abortion. Give me a Fvcking break, the cells being used are scheduled to be discarded by the invitro-labs... So much for the abortion angle.

The other reason is for the Pharmaceutical giants. If they back this research that finds a cure, then they can patent it and charge what they want for these therapies. If government funded cures are found they become available to everyone at a limited cost... just like Polio...

So to both of you take your Rush Limbaugh talking points and shove them, leave the complicated scientific issues to people who attended those liberal hot-spot universities and actually learned something along the way.

[Rohirrim]

It's pretty much the death knell of a society when it uses religious belief to attack science. That's what took Islam from the forefront of scientific thought, to where it is today.

[alkemical]

Why is this important?

[TheDave]

Why is this important?

Stem Cells or Michael J Fox?

[defenseman]

Here is a simple bit of education for Barry and Dman....

Fetal stem cells are "pluripotent" meaning that they can become/mimic any cell in the body except placental tissue.

Adult stem cells are "multipotent" meaning that they are limited to what they can replicate... blood stem cells can replicate most cells found in blood. This is why they are currently used in bone marrow transplants.

The reason for using embryonic stem cells is because of their flexibility. Not only does it shorten research time because of their ease to harvest but their flexibility is endless. On the other hand adult stem cells are much more difficult to harvest and culture while their uses are very specific and limited.

Point is we need to continue research on both fronts. The reason our republican led government has not properly supported this research is political only. First they are making their case for the simple minded people that compare this to abortion. Give me a f***ing break, the cells being used are scheduled to be discarded by the invitro-labs... So much for the abortion angle.

The other reason is for the Pharmaceutical giants. If they back this research that finds a cure, then they can patent it and charge what they want for these therapies. If government funded cures are found they become available to everyone at a limited cost... just like Polio...

So to both of you take your Rush Limbaugh talking points and shove them, leave the complicated scientific issues to people who attended those liberal hot-spot universities and actually learned something along the way.

Ok, now that the education is complete, if it's that simple, WHY haven't we got the research yet? I can't help but think that the proper pressure has not been applied yet to the conservative right wing that truly wants to shut all this down. I'm for it mind you, just did not like fox's characterization, not the whole truth was put on the table by him. Ergo, it's useless. If what you say is true, why can't we convince the republicans to buy in? What's the problem? Again, I'm for the research, just didn't like fox's characterization......misleading at best...dman

[Orange_Beard]

Geez, do people around here get their "news" and "info" from lefty blog sites or something? The Bush admin. is against federal funding for EMBRYONIC stem cell research. In fact, what admin. has done the most funding for stem cell research? The current Bush admin. It's the truth, but yeah, won't find that in the lefty blogs :thumbsup:

The stupid ones are the ones that believe and lie about embryonic stem cell working. if you call people developing tumors as something great, so be it.

The Bush admin. is not pushing for a law to stop it either. Nothing says private companies can't get involved with research and development of using embryos. There is no law right now that says you can't. Just not government won't fund it, which for those that have troubles understanding, doesn't make it illegal.

It amazes me the myths that get generated from the left, but my guess is they got their "education" from the Ward Churchill types.

Yeah you are right..... Way Right.

Anyone to the left of Hitler must be a wacko.

[TheDave]

Ok, now that the education is complete, if it's that simple, WHY haven't we got the research yet? I can't help but think that the proper pressure has not been applied yet to the conservative right wing that truly wants to shut all this down. I'm for it mind you, just did not like fox's characterization, not the whole truth was put on the table by him. Ergo, it's useless. If what you say is true, why can't we convince the republicans to buy in? What's the problem? Again, I'm for the research, just didn't like fox's characterization......misleading at best...dman

What did he say that was misleading?

the democratic Rep wants to expand stem cell funding especially to the crucial embryonic research that has shown promise for Parkinson's disease.

On the other hand the Republican Rep. does not support expanding stem cell funding and in fact wants to outlaw embryonic research (the abortion BS again)

Those are facts and are only misleading to people ignorant of the science behind this. Since you are always saying you want to see "all" the facts maybe now is a good time to brush up on what this debate is truly about.

[alkemical]

Stem Cells or Michael J Fox?

the whole "issue" of m.j. fox v. rush -OR-

the continued circle jerk of why one man's PC is another man's taboo.

[Barry Ramey]

Um gee, thanks for the education Mr. Wizard. But that doesn't change the fact the Bush haters saying he and the republicans are against any stem cell research and that's a bunch of BS. Besides, if you want things done right and more quicker, you'd have a better shot with private companies doing it and not the usual slow government and there are companies right now involved. And with that comes competition and a better product, not something from the government who would have no competition and you are stuck with whatever they have. I know you got taught that in your liberal classes, bi daddy government should be involved with everything, but those of us who have experienced things and don't live in a glass house and have dealt with real life and not just theories know that's not the answer to most issues and problems.

[bendog]

What did he say that was misleading?

the democratic Rep wants to expand stem cell funding especially to the crucial embryonic research that has shown promise for Parkinson's disease.

On the other hand the Republican Rep. does not support expanding stem cell funding and in fact wants to outlaw embryonic research (the abortion BS again)

Those are facts and are only misleading to people ignorant of the science behind this. Since you are always saying you want to see "all" the facts maybe now is a good time to brush up on what this debate is truly about.

Thank you.

[TheDave]

the whole "issue" of m.j. fox v. rush -OR-

the continued circle jerk of why one man's PC is another man's taboo.

For me atleast i couldn't care less about Fox or Rush. Rush is a POS for saying what he did about Fox, but what else is new.

In my opinion Stem Cell research is the most promising research in science today... yes any science. This could lead to the abolishment of many, many diseases and further our understanding of the human body beyond anything we have ever done. When the talking heads start down playing it's importance i tend to get my panties in a wad.

[TheDave]

Um gee, thanks for the education Mr. Wizard. But that doesn't change the fact the Bush haters saying he and the republicans are against any stem cell research and that's a bunch of BS. Besides, if you want things done right and more quicker, you'd have a better shot with private companies doing it and not the usual slow government and there are companies right now involved. And with that comes competition and a better product, not something from the government who would have no competition and you are stuck with whatever they have. I know you got taught that in your liberal classes, bi daddy government should be involved with everything, but those of us who have experienced things and don't live in a glass house and have dealt with real life and not just theories know that's not the answer to most issues and problems.

In this case the gov't should be involved, just like it was with polio and other vaccinations. This science could put us way ahead of the rest of the world for health and medicine. Thats profitable for all of us.

As for you're private companies doing a better job tell that to NASA and the CDC. Gov't does an excellent job with research, don't stop that now because Rush told you so.

[alkemical]

For me atleast i couldn't care less about Fox or Rush. Rush is a POS for saying what he did about Fox, but what else is new.

In my opinion Stem Cell research is the most promising research in science today... yes any science. This could lead to the abolishment of many, many diseases and further our understanding of the human body beyond anything we have ever done. When the talking heads start down playing it's importance i tend to get my panties in a wad.

careful dave - you might end up on da list.

[Barry Ramey]

Oh, so Mr. Wizard says because republicans are against using embryos so that automatically means they are for making it illegal? Um, sure because that's what the lefty blog talking points say. You might want to stay out of politics and common sense since that seems above you.

What did he say that was misleading?

the democratic Rep wants to expand stem cell funding especially to the crucial embryonic research that has shown promise for Parkinson's disease.

On the other hand the Republican Rep. does not support expanding stem cell funding and in fact wants to outlaw embryonic research (the abortion BS again)

Those are facts and are only misleading to people ignorant of the science behind this. Since you are always saying you want to see "all" the facts maybe now is a good time to brush up on what this debate is truly about.

[Barry Ramey]

Um, for one, I don't listen to Rush nor do I know what he thinks about what government should do and I don't really care. Government has helped in some areas, but hasn't in many more and I don't see it any better than anything else these days. In fact, in regards to science, they can't agree with themselves what's best. No fat in diet. Yes, need some. Yes, that pill works. No, it doesn't. Still no cures for cancer, MS, leukemia, etc., so they don't know it all.


In this case the gov't should be involved, just like it was with polio and other vaccinations. This science could put us way ahead of the rest of the world for health and medicine. Thats profitable for all of us.

As for you're private companies doing a better job tell that to NASA and the CDC. Gov't does an excellent job with research, don't stop that now because Rush told you so.

[TheDave]

Oh, so Mr. Wizard says because republicans are against using embryos so that automatically means they are for making it illegal? Um, sure because that's what the lefty blog talking points say. You might want to stay out of politics and common sense since that seems above you.

You know everyone here warned me you were an idiot and that i was wasting my time... i should of listened to them.

[bendog]

barry, publically funded research with embryonic stem cells, that means at places like the University of Michigan Medical School,... good or bad? You can handle this one. It's a no brainer.

[TheDave]

barry, publically funded research with embryonic stem cells, that means at places like the University of Michigan Medical School,... good or bad? You can handle this one. It's a no brainer.

Yeah bendog, we sure wouldn't want those liberal nuts over at Johns Hopkins working on this... this guy makes errand look sane

[bendog]

Yeah bendog, we sure wouldn't want those liberal nuts over at Johns Hopkins working on this... this guy makes errand look sane

Yeah, but limiting it to guys like Merck and Glaxo would probably tend to help their bottom lines in maybe ten to twenty years ...... nah, that wouldn't have anything to do with the gop's postion; I must be a liberal nut to even harbor that cumminsit thought for a minute, and I must be an evil doer who hates our freedoms. Of course Merck will fund research aimed at curing paralysis and parkinsons without daily drug therapy. They're motivated by doing good.

And besides, going out with Parkinson's isn't too pleasant, but hell it beats Alzheimers, so Fox should probably just be grateful.

[fido]

if everyone would just eat their veggies........

[BroncoInferno]

Ok, now that the education is complete, if it's that simple, WHY haven't we got the research yet? I can't help but think that the proper pressure has not been applied yet to the conservative right wing that truly wants to shut all this down. I'm for it mind you, just did not like fox's characterization, not the whole truth was put on the table by him. Ergo, it's useless. If what you say is true, why can't we convince the republicans to buy in? What's the problem?

The problem is with the religious nutjobs who compare embryonic cell research to Nazi experiments on actual human beings. The Republicans who block this reseasrch are either among those religious nuts or are pandering to them for votes. It has nothing to do with any reasonable, scientifically based skepticism.

And, again, what did Fox mislead about? Everything he said was 100% accurate.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ok, now that the education is complete, if it's that simple, WHY haven't we got the research yet? I can't help but think that the proper pressure has not been applied yet to the conservative right wing that truly wants to shut all this down. I'm for it mind you, just did not like fox's characterization, not the whole truth was put on the table by him. Ergo, it's useless. If what you say is true, why can't we convince the republicans to buy in? What's the problem? Again, I'm for the research, just didn't like fox's characterization......misleading at best...dman
Because of all the religious right republicans in this country that think it's their duty to legislate morality on the rest of us.

And tell me about what part of Fox's "characterization" was misleading?

Tonight you get to see the religious right's answer to Fox's commercial where they are spouting sh*t like he's advocating legalizing cloning.

[baja]

Agreed. Not all the facts were presented, again I might add. status quo for the "shock and awe" ads now being presented to the voters. Fox's ad in my opinion, will backfire on the dems. Do I feel bad for Fox, sure I think we all do.<b> Do I feel worse when I know only half the truth hit the airwaves. Yep....pretty sad display.</b> Predicting it will turn the other way vice what they wanted...dman

Well here is your opportunity to post the untold part of the truth but I know you won't because you almost always post in vague, sound good language.

[Spider]

What sacres me about Barrey is ....... this guy could actually reproduce ...... I would feel better if Barrey was gay .We could flush down any offspring he might have

[BroncoInferno]

What sacres me about Barrey is ....... this guy could actually reproduce ...... I would feel better if Barrey was gay .

Have we ruled that out? He is a Republican after all...

[Spider]

Have we ruled that out? He is a Republican after all...

thats true ........

[baja]

thats true ........

Not to worry when Berry's sister told him she had her tubes tied he went to the doc and had his 'tube' tied in a knot

[Spider]

Not to worry when Berry's sister told him she had her tubes tied he went to the doc and had his 'tube' tied in a knot

;D .........

[bendog]

What gets me is that that we have conservative gopers - nancy reagan (for God's sake!) John Danforth the editor of the Neshoba County Miss paper (where we killed them civil rights agitators and where Reagan launched his 1980 campaign)- saying this issue is ridiculous. It's using cells that are going in the trash. Moreover, why is it anybody's biz if I want to CREATE an embryo from MY DNA and use it for MY medical treatment.

People actually make issues of this crap, and then along comes d-man saying Fox is being somehow not honest. IF people weren't dying and sitting in wheel chairs, this would be funny

I doubt even wags is marching to Bushii's tune on this one.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What gets me is that that we have conservative gopers - nancy reagan (for God's sake!) John Danforth the editor of the Neshoba County Miss paper (where we killed them civil rights agitators and where Reagan launched his 1980 campaign)- saying this issue is ridiculous. It's using cells that are going in the trash. Moreover, why is it anybody's biz if I want to CREATE an embryo from MY DNA and use it for MY medical treatment.

People actually make issues of this crap, and then along comes d-man saying Fox is being somehow not honest. IF people weren't dying and sitting in wheel chairs, this would be funny

I doubt even wags is marching to Bushii's tune on this one.
It really defies the imagination trying to make sense of the religious right's problem with stem cell research.

[baja]

It really defies the imagination trying to make sense of the religious right's problem with stem cell research.

And yet they have no problem with 610,000 iraqi civilians being killed. maybe towel heads don't count.

[bendog]

Oh, I understand their logic. Now the American Protestant RR is not being honest. However the Papists are logically consistent. Life begins at conception and life is sacred. If you buy that 100%, then yes Iraq is wrong, cutting aid to children and below living wages level jobs are all as wrong as "harvesting" stem cells.

It's just that to most of us, life has shades of grey, and moral absolutes have to pass a common sense test.

[baja]

Oh, I understand their logic. Now the American Protestant RR is not being honest. However the Papists are logically consistent. Life begins at conception and life is sacred. If you buy that 100%, then yes Iraq is wrong, cutting aid to children and below living wages level jobs are all as wrong as "harvesting" stem cells.

It's just that to most of us, life has shades of grey, and moral absolutes have to pass a common sense test.

So you kill them for stealing lunch money??

[bendog]

So you kill them for stealing lunch money??

Naw, waterboard em. (-:

I'm doing some looking. Giving dman the benefit of the doubt that possibly Fox was "overreaching" in saying Brownback wants to make embryonic stem cell research illegal.

He proposed making cloning of them illegal. That is, their aren't that many unused embryoes sitting in freezers, so you get a few, and clone em.
http://www.bu.edu/washjocenter/Spring_2003_Stories/heidi_taylor/newswire_htaylor_cloning-2-6.htm

I don't see how Fox "over reached."

[Barry Ramey]

Oh, here's some info. those that are fixated on killing embryos don't like to see or hear.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px" vAlign=top align=left width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px" vAlign=top align=right>Source:</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px" vAlign=top align=left><!-- SOURCE BEGIN -->American Chemical Society (http://www.acs.org/)<!-- SOURCE END --></TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" vAlign=top align=right>Date:</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" vAlign=top align=left><!-- DATE BEGIN -->September 19, 2006<!-- DATE END --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right></TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px" vAlign=top noWrap align=left>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Adult Stem Cells Show Wider Potential Than Previously Thought

<!-- BODY BEGIN -->Chemists are developing new insights and techniques in an effort to expand the therapeutic potential of stem cells, which includes possible treatments for Parkinson's disease, diabetes, spinal cord injury and other devastating conditions.

Embryonic stem cells are the most versatile stem cells, capable of being transformed into any other cell type, depending on their desired therapeutic use.

Now, researchers at Northwestern University have found new evidence that hematopoietic stem cells, a type of adult stem cell derived from the bone marrow that gives rise to blood cells, are capable of undergoing more diverse transformations than previously thought and could be transformed into a wide variety of tissue types, not just blood cells.

In recent laboratory tests, human megakaryocytes (bone marrow cells that produce blood platelets that are responsible for blood clotting) derived from adult hematopoietic stem cells were, for the first time, reprogrammed into neutrophil-like cells similar to the white blood cells that are responsible for fighting infections, according to study leader E. Terry Papoutsakis.

Insights from this study could help guide similar adult stem cell transformations in other cell types in the future, he says.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060918201025.htm

[Barry Ramey]

Oh and yet another about the supposed "limited" adult stem cells.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px" vAlign=top align=left width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px" vAlign=top align=right>Source:</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px" vAlign=top align=left><!-- SOURCE BEGIN -->University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine (http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/)<!-- SOURCE END --></TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" vAlign=top align=right>Date:</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" vAlign=top align=left><!-- DATE BEGIN -->July 12, 2006<!-- DATE END --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>Post to:</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px" vAlign=top noWrap align=left>Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/bookmark.pl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com% 2Freleases%2F2006%2F07%2F060712180513.htm&title=New+Source+Of+Multipotent+Adult+Stem+Cells+D iscovered+In+Human+Hair+Follicles), del.icio.us (http://del.icio.us/post?v=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2 F2006%2F07%2F060712180513.htm&title=New+Source+Of+Multipotent+Adult+Stem+Cells+D iscovered+In+Human+Hair+Follicles), Digg (http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2 F2006%2F07%2F060712180513.htm),
Furl (http://www.furl.net/storeIt.jsp?t=New+Source+Of+Multipotent+Adult+Stem +Cells+Discovered+In+Human+Hair+Follicles&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2F2 006%2F07%2F060712180513.htm), Netscape (http://www.netscape.com/submit/?U=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2F 2006%2F07%2F060712180513.htm&T=New+Source+Of+Multipotent+Adult+Stem+Cells+Disco vered+In+Human+Hair+Follicles), Newsvine (http://www.newsvine.com/_tools/seed&save?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Frelease s%2F2006%2F07%2F060712180513.htm&h=New+Source+Of+Multipotent+Adult+Stem+Cells+Disco vered+In+Human+Hair+Follicles),
reddit (http://reddit.com/submit?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Frel eases%2F2006%2F07%2F060712180513.htm&title=New+Source+Of+Multipotent+Adult+Stem+Cells+D iscovered+In+Human+Hair+Follicles), Yahoo! MyWeb (http://myweb2.search.yahoo.com/myresults/bookmarklet?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2F releases%2F2006%2F07%2F060712180513.htm&t=New+Source+Of+Multipotent+Adult+Stem+Cells+Disco vered+In+Human+Hair+Follicles&d=&ei=UTF-8)
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
New Source Of Multipotent Adult Stem Cells Discovered In Human Hair Follicles

<!-- BODY BEGIN -->Researchers at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine have isolated a new source of adult stem cells that appear to have the potential to differentiate into several cell types. If their approach to growing these cells can be scaled up and proves to be safe and effective in animal and human studies, it could one day provide the tissue needed by an individual for treating a host of disorders, including peripheral nerve disease, Parkinson’s disease, and spinal cord injury.
<!-- IMAGE BEGIN -->http://www.sciencedaily.com/images/2006/07/060712180513.jpg
Hair spheres formed by proliferation of multipotent stem cells derived from human hair follicles. (Credit: Xiaowei Xu, University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine and the American Journal of Pathology) <TABLE style="PADDING-TOP: 5px" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=bottom>Ads by Google (http://services.google.com/feedback/abg?url=http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060712180513.htm&hl=en&client=ca-pub-1787672658759074&adU=www.hair-loss-study.com&adT=Hair+Loss+Product+Reviews&adU=www.aculas.com&adT=Hair+loss+laser+therapy&adU=www.LaserComb.net&adT=The+HairMax+LaserComb&adU=Consumer-Research-Guide.com&adT=The+Truth+About+Hair+Loss&adU=www.HairLossTreatments.in&adT=Hair+Loss+Treatments&adU=www.FreeCordBlood.com&adT=Cord+Blood&adU=RestorationHair.com&adT=Hair+Regrowth+in+2+weeks&adU=www.hairlossclinic.com.au&adT=Hairloss/Scalp+Specialist&done=1)
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<HR>


<!-- IMAGE END -->“We are very excited about this new source of adult stem cells that has the potential for a variety of applications,” says senior author Xiaowei (George) Xu, MD, PhD, Assistant Professor of Pathology. “A number of reports have pointed to the fact that adult stem cells may be more flexible in what they become than previously thought, so we decided to look in the hair follicle bulge, a niche for these cells.” Xu and colleagues report their findings in the latest issue of the American Journal of Pathology.

Hair follicles are well known to be a source for adult stem cells. Using human embryonic stem cell culture conditions, the researchers isolated and grew a new type of multipotent adult stem cell from scalp tissue obtained from the National Institute of Health’s Cooperative Human Tissue Network.

The mutipotent stem cells grow as masses the investigators call hair spheres. After growing the “raw” cells from the hair spheres in different types of growth factors, the investigators were able to differentiate the stem cells into multiple lineages, including nerve cells, smooth muscle cells, and melanocytes (skin pigment cells).

The differentiated cells acquired lineage-specific markers and demonstrated appropriate functions in tissue culture, according to each cell type. For example, after 14 days, 20% to 40% of the cells in the melanocyte media took on a weblike shape typical of melanocytes. The new cells also expressed biomarkers typical of pigment cells and when placed in an artificial human skin construct, produced melanin and responded to chemical cues from normal epidermis skin cells.

After 14 days, about 10% of the stem cells in the neuronal cell line -- a type of cell not present in skin or hair -- grew dendrites, the long extensions typical of nerve cells and expressed neuronal proteins. The neurotransmitter glutamate was also present in the cells, but the neurotransmitter dopamine was not detected.

Thirdly, about 80% of the stem cells grown in the muscle media differentiated into smooth muscle cells. These new muscle cells also contracted when placed in a collagen matrix.

Overall, the researchers showed that human embryonic stem cell media could be used to isolate and expand a novel population of multipotent adult stem cells from human hair follicles. “Although we are just at the start of this research, our findings suggest that human hair follicles may provide an accessible, individualized source of stem cells,” says Xu. The researchers are now working on inducing other cell types from the hair sphere cells and testing the cells in animal models.

Study co-authors are Hong Yu, Suresh M. Kumar, and Geza Acs, all from Penn; and Dong Fang, Ling Li, Thiennga K. Nguyen, and Meenhard Herlyn, all from the Wistar Institute, Philadelphia.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/07/060712180513.htm

[TheDave]

Oh, here's some info. those that are fixated on killing embryos don't like to see or hear.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px" vAlign=top align=left width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px" vAlign=top align=right>Source:</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px" vAlign=top align=left><!-- SOURCE BEGIN -->American Chemical Society (http://www.acs.org/)<!-- SOURCE END --></TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" vAlign=top align=right>Date:</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" vAlign=top align=left><!-- DATE BEGIN -->September 19, 2006<!-- DATE END --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right></TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px" vAlign=top noWrap align=left>
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Adult Stem Cells Show Wider Potential Than Previously Thought

<!-- BODY BEGIN -->Chemists are developing new insights and techniques in an effort to expand the therapeutic potential of stem cells, which includes possible treatments for Parkinson's disease, diabetes, spinal cord injury and other devastating conditions.

Embryonic stem cells are the most versatile stem cells, capable of being transformed into any other cell type, depending on their desired therapeutic use.

Now, researchers at Northwestern University have found new evidence that hematopoietic stem cells, a type of adult stem cell derived from the bone marrow that gives rise to blood cells, are capable of undergoing more diverse transformations than previously thought and could be transformed into a wide variety of tissue types, not just blood cells.

In recent laboratory tests, human megakaryocytes (bone marrow cells that produce blood platelets that are responsible for blood clotting) derived from adult hematopoietic stem cells were, for the first time, reprogrammed into neutrophil-like cells similar to the white blood cells that are responsible for fighting infections, according to study leader E. Terry Papoutsakis.

Insights from this study could help guide similar adult stem cell transformations in other cell types in the future, he says.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/09/060918201025.htm


That's excellent news, and another reason we should fund ALL stem cell research. By the way Barry notice where this study came from, another of those damn liberal Universities ;)

[Barry Ramey]

Oh and here's some info. on embryonic stem cell research that the self-appointed science experts may need to know.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 10px" vAlign=top align=left width="100%"><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px" vAlign=top align=right>Source:</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px" vAlign=top align=left><!-- SOURCE BEGIN -->University of California - Los Angeles (http://www.ucla.edu/)<!-- SOURCE END --></TD></TR><TR><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" vAlign=top align=right>Date:</TD><TD style="PADDING-RIGHT: 5px; PADDING-TOP: 5px" vAlign=top align=left><!-- DATE BEGIN -->August 6, 2006<!-- DATE END --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>Post to:</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px" vAlign=top noWrap align=left>Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/bookmark.pl?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com% 2Freleases%2F2006%2F08%2F060805123052.htm&title=Neural+Stem+Cells+Derived+From+Human+Embryon ic+Stem+Cells+Carry+Abnormal+Gene+Expression), del.icio.us (http://del.icio.us/post?v=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2 F2006%2F08%2F060805123052.htm&title=Neural+Stem+Cells+Derived+From+Human+Embryon ic+Stem+Cells+Carry+Abnormal+Gene+Expression), Digg (http://digg.com/submit?phase=2&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2 F2006%2F08%2F060805123052.htm),
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reddit (http://reddit.com/submit?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Frel eases%2F2006%2F08%2F060805123052.htm&title=Neural+Stem+Cells+Derived+From+Human+Embryon ic+Stem+Cells+Carry+Abnormal+Gene+Expression), Yahoo! MyWeb (http://myweb2.search.yahoo.com/myresults/bookmarklet?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2F releases%2F2006%2F08%2F060805123052.htm&t=Neural+Stem+Cells+Derived+From+Human+Embryonic+S tem+Cells+Carry+Abnormal+Gene+Expression&d=&ei=UTF-8)
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Neural Stem Cells Derived From Human Embryonic Stem Cells Carry Abnormal Gene Expression

<!-- BODY BEGIN -->Neural stem cells grown from one of the federally approved human embryonic stem cell lines proved to be inferior to neural stem cells derived from fetal tissue donated for research, a UCLA study has found.
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Researchers from the Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Medicine at UCLA coaxed cells from the federally approved line to differentiate into neural stem cells, a process that might one day be used to grow replacement cells to treat such debilitating diseases as Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. However, the neural stem cells expressed a lower level of a metabolic gene called CPT 1A, a condition that causes hypoglycemia in humans.

The study may shed new light on better ways to grow neural and other stem cells in the lab so they mirror normal cells and promote normal functioning, said Guoping Fan, an assistant professor of human genetics and a researcher in UCLA's stem cell institute. The study appears this week in an early online edition of the journal Human Molecular Genetics.

"This study is a very important first step in looking at the differentiation process in neural stem cells," said Fan, senior author of the study. "Now we have a direct measurement of the types of cells that eventually, we hope, will be used for transplantation. We can tell, are they normal or not.

Understanding why these cells under-expressed CPT 1A is the first step in a comprehensive understanding of cells obtained from human embryonic stem cells."

The study, Fan said, deals with one of the most important aspects in stem cell biology - potential abnormalities in cells derived from human embryonic stem cells. Stem cells with abnormalities may not effectively treat the diseases they were created to treat, or they may result in secondary problems such as hypoglycemia, Fan said.

UCLA researchers also compared the neural stem cells they grew to cancer cells to ensure that the neural stem cells did not have any abnormalities in a DNA modification associated with gene silencing. The abnormal DNA modification is characteristically a hallmark of cancer cells. The good news, Fan said, is that the neural stem cells in their study did not share any abnormal characteristics associated with cancer. The means, theoretically, that a patient undergoing transplantation with these neural stem cells would not later develop a malignancy.

In the three-year study, researchers compared the neural stem cells grown in the lab from human embryonic stem cells to neural stem cells that already had differentiated and were derived from donated fetal tissue. The question: would the cell lines be the same and mirror the normal neural stem cells found in humans or would one cell line be superior to the other?

"Compared to the normal cells derived from the fetal tissue, the level of gene expression in the neural stem cells grown in the lab is lower," Fan said. "Proper levels of gene expression are essential for normal cell function. This study suggests that the differentiation procedure used in the lab needs to be improved so all genes are properly regulated in the stem cells we grow."

Fan and his colleagues now are studying what may have gone awry in the process they used to coax the human embryonic stem cells to differentiate into neural stem cells that may have resulted in the under-expression of the CPT 1A gene. They're also planning to repeat their work on other federally approved stem cell lines to see if the abnormality was an aberration found only in this one stem cell line. Fan and other UCLA researchers said the abnormality found in the federally approved stem cell line reinforces the need for other embryonic stem cells lines on which to conduct research.

To compare the neural stem cells, researchers extracted DNA fragments and used high throughput micro array technology to study the pattern of DNA cytosine methylation. They also monitored for levels of gene expression that are necessary for cell function as well as abnormalities that might be problematic.

"Any stem cells that might one day be used for transplantation have to be as close as possible to normal stem cells," Fan said. "The next step is to see if we can improve the way we grown these cells. I think we learned an important lesson with this study."

The Institute for Stem Cell Biology and Medicine was launched in 2005 with a UCLA commitment of $20 million over five years. The ISCBM is committed to a multi-disciplinary, integrated collaboration of scientific, academic, and medical disciplines for the purpose of understanding adult and human embryonic stem cells. The institute supports innovation, excellence and the highest ethical standards focused on stem cell research with the intent of facilitating basic scientific inquiry directed towards future clinical applications to treat disease. The institute is a collaboration of the David Geffen School of Medicine, UCLA's Jonsson Cancer Center, the Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science and the UCLA College.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060805123052.htm

[bendog]

That's excellent news, and another reason we should fund ALL stem cell research. By the way Barry notice where this study came from, another of those damn liberal Universities ;)

Not only that look who did it. a bunch of asian types, rag heads of some kind, a viet refugee and sponsored by a damn Jew.

Study co-authors are Hong Yu, Suresh M. Kumar, and Geza Acs, all from Penn; and Dong Fang, Ling Li, Thiennga K. Nguyen, and Meenhard Herlyn, all from the Wistar Institute, Philadelphia.
--
but at least we know where barry's coming from. It's "killing" an embryo. Personally, I don't find anymore ethical a problem than shooting bb's at the birds harassing my kid's cat. But, I'm a REDNECK

[Barry Ramey]

Oh, but Mr. Wizard, you stated "adult stem cells are limited." So maybe you don't know as much as you claim.

That's excellent news, and another reason we should fund ALL stem cell research. By the way Barry notice where this study came from, another of those damn liberal Universities ;)

[Barry Ramey]

I find it interesting how some people on the left project their racist attitudes and beliefs on to others whom they think hold such thoughts.

Not only that look who did it. a bunch of asian types, rag heads of some kind, a viet refugee and sponsored by a damn Jew.

Study co-authors are Hong Yu, Suresh M. Kumar, and Geza Acs, all from Penn; and Dong Fang, Ling Li, Thiennga K. Nguyen, and Meenhard Herlyn, all from the Wistar Institute, Philadelphia.
--
but at least we know where barry's coming from. It's "killing" an embryo. Personally, I don't find anymore ethical a problem than shooting bb's at the birds harassing my kid's cat. But, I'm a REDNECK

[bendog]

Barry, it says "may." And, in the 4 years this bogus issue has been wanking along, serious research has been limited. I sincerely hope you don't have a family member suffering from parkinsons or paralysis, but x-nay the bull****.

[bendog]

I find it interesting how some people on the left project their racist attitudes and beliefs on to others whom they think hold such thoughts.

Dude, I'm a bud lt and vodka drinking, gun dog owner, anti-gummit, one-person-one-vote-racist, Goldwater REPUBLICAN. I just wish a-holes like you would get the hell out of my political party!

[TheDave]

Oh, but Mr. Wizard, you stated "adult stem cells are limited." So maybe you don't know as much as you claim.

God you are slow,

Reread the article you posted, it shows that they have gotten these stem cells to convert to 3 different tissue types. 3 Vs. 100's is the definition of limited.


Try to keep up...

[gunns]

I find it interesting how some people on the left project their racist attitudes and beliefs on to others whom they think hold such thoughts.

I thought you were a Republican. Just look at the last Presidential election to see what you've stated put into practice.

[Spider]

Oh, but Mr. Wizard, you stated "adult stem cells are limited." So maybe you don't know as much as you claim.did you even bother to read what you posted ? ...... either that are you are the special ed bastard of the year ...........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

did you even bother to read what you posted ? ...... either that are you are the special ed bastard of the year ...........

Another question would be "why must you post articles with all those hair loss links and spam attached?"

:D

[Barry Ramey]

Funny the "science experts" around here claim embryonic stems have more promise yet can only offer beliefs. There is no scientific proof from what has already been done that using embryo stem cells are better and in fact, it shows quite the opposite unless mutation cells is considered progress. So makes me wonder what the motive is to mislead others into thinking the way they do based purely on opinion. Oh yeah, their God complex, since you say it, it means it must be true, don't need any facts othe than what's found ona lefty blog and they are so accurate of course. You guys and your warped sense of reality humors me :wave:

[Spider]

Funny the "science experts" around here claim embryonic stems have more promise yet can only offer beliefs. There is no scientific proof from what has already been done that using embryo stem cells are better and in fact, it shows quite the opposite unless mutation cells is considered progress. So makes me wonder what the motive is to mislead others into thinking the way they do based purely on opinion. Oh yeah, their God complex, since you say it, it means it must be true, don't need any facts othe than what's found ona lefty blog and they are so accurate of course. You guys and your warped sense of reality humors me :wave:
Prove embryonic stem cells dont work , and dont shove that god shít as a reason ...........

[TheDave]

Funny the "science experts" around here claim embryonic stems have more promise yet can only offer beliefs. There is no scientific proof from what has already been done that using embryo stem cells are better and in fact, it shows quite the opposite unless mutation cells is considered progress. So makes me wonder what the motive is to mislead others into thinking the way they do based purely on opinion. Oh yeah, their God complex, since you say it, it means it must be true, don't need any facts othe than what's found ona lefty blog and they are so accurate of course. You guys and your warped sense of reality humors me :wave:

So what's your reason for shutting done research you know nothing about... Why are you so against using embryonic stem cells, which currently are the only cells that show the potential of curring paralysis, Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, etc.?

You keep saying that these cells are completely ineffective yet in lab experiments they have already shown the ability to heal severed spinal cords?

Instead of trying to talk about things way over your head just tell us why you are soooo against this research so that we can deal with that.

[bendog]

Out of curiosity, I wonder what Barry thinks the article he pasted says.

[baja]

Guys like Barry is why the government is now run by big business. Thinking for yourself has been stystematically weened out of the duller Americans. Just give me TV and toys huh Berry.

[bendog]

hmmm. I don't know, but Barry didn't read, or understand, what he pasted, because it didn't say what he apparntly thought it did. He prolly hacked it from some right to life site. LOL

I never did really figure what D-man was saying Fox was being disengenuous about, either. Maybe it was that when talking about Parkinsons, fox doesn't take his "anti-shake" meds, which is NOT being disengenuous. For example, when I had a client who was crazy, I didn't want him medicated cause I wanted people to see him being crazy cause that was the way he really was.

Or, whether D-man thought Fox was disnengenous in saying Brownback wanted to make embyronic stem cell research illegal. Brownback does, but he's trying it back door by making cloning the stem cells illegal. If that's being disengenuous, I suggest D-man just plan on not voting since no candidate will meet his honesty test.

[defenseman]

I've heard one say this, one say that. This report says this, this report says that? Who do you believe anymore? You see it the way you will, I'll see it the way I will is what it really comes down to anymore......as far as Michael Fox? He dove into politics, he must be ready to accept scrutiny, all the rest who dabble do. Should he expect anything less because he's "special"? I should hope not. He needs to cowboy up if he's going to endorse a candidate on a national or state level and have his flack jacket handy. Today's politics knows no friend..dman

[Barry Ramey]

I'd like those that think they are science experts because they think so to prove embryonic stem cells work. Oh yeah, don't forget the work they've done with mice and just what a great success that's been so far. But obviously the embryonic believers believe it's ok to destroy life to experiment.(hmm, didn't Hitler dabble in that?)

Let's see Fox says a politician is against advanced stem cell research, but nothing about him supporting geneal stem cell research. He also gives the impression if you vote the way I think you should, embryonic stem cells will allow me to beat my disease despite the only proof being theory.

There is no ban on using embryos or making it illegal, which another lie the dims in this forum believe despite no proof of that either.

But then again, they do support Pelosi and Hillary, who support that parents don't need to be informed of their daughters having an abortion, so thereby saying the government has more rights than the parents do even though schools need permission from parents for kids to go on field trips and hospitals on any surgery. Well, that is othe than abortion of course. So worrying about human life is not that interesting to them, unless of course it's a child molester or a muslim terrorist, then they care about human life. Meanwhile, let's open up abortion clinics on each street corner and pay women for aborted fetuses to use for experments, just like that bill Fox is endorsing allows.

[Barry Ramey]

And here's more about that bill Fox supports and looks like deception is involved in it.

Celebs Set to Air TV Ads in Response to Fox's Controversial Stem Cell Campaign

Wednesday, October 25, 2006
http://www.foxnews.com/images/foxnews_story.gif


Missouri became the national battleground Wednesday in the embryonic stem cell research debate, as celebrity opponents of a state amendment — including a World Series starting pitcher — said they would air a commercial during the game in response to an ad in which actor Michael J. Fox (javascript:siteSearch('Michael J. Fox');) graphically displays the symptoms of his Parkinson's disease (javascript:siteSearch('Parkinson's disease');).
The minute-long ad opposing Amendment 2, a Missouri ballot initiative that would protect stem cell research (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,224738,00.html#), features St. Louis Cardinals (javascript:siteSearch('St. Louis Cardinals');) pitcher Jeff Suppan (javascript:siteSearch('Jeff Suppan');), who is scheduled to start Wednesday night's Game 4 against the Detroit Tigers (javascript:siteSearch('Detroit Tigers');).

Arizona Cardinals (javascript:siteSearch('Arizona Cardinals');) quarterback Kurt Warner (javascript:siteSearch('Kurt Warner');), Kansas City Royals (javascript:siteSearch('Kansas City Royals');) player Mike Sweeney (javascript:siteSearch('Mike Sweeney');) and actors Patricia Heaton (javascript:siteSearch('Patricia Heaton');) of TV's "Everybody Loves Raymond (javascript:siteSearch('Everybody Loves Raymond');)," and Jim Caviezel (javascript:siteSearch('Jim Caviezel');), who portrayed Jesus in "The Passion of the Christ (javascript:siteSearch('The Passion of the Christ');)" also are featured in the ad.

"Amendment 2 claims it bans human cloning, but in the 2,000 words you don't read, it makes cloning a constitutional right," Suppan says in the commercial. "Don't be deceived."

The ad comes in response to a series of controversial 30-second Fox ads, in which he asks voters to support various Democratic candidates and legislation backing embryonic stem cell (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,224738,00.html#) research.

Those ads ignited a firestorm Tuesday when conservative talk-show commentator Rush Limbaugh (javascript:siteSearch('Rush Limbaugh');) told his listeners that the TV and movie star was "either off his medication or acting."

In the ads, Fox, 45, who was diagnosed with Parkinson's in 1991 and went public with the disease in 1998, shakes and rocks uncontrollably as he directly addresses the camera, making no effort to hide the effects of his disease.

Fox's Missouri ad asks voters to support Democratic Senate hopeful Claire McCaskill (javascript:siteSearch('Claire McCaskill');), who is campaigning to unseat Republican incumbent Jim Talent (javascript:siteSearch('Jim Talent');).
McCaskill supports the Missouri embryonic stem cell research (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,224738,00.html#) amendment, while Talent is opposed.

Limbaugh weighed in on the Fox ad during his broadcast Tuesday.
"He is exaggerating the effects of the disease," Limbaugh told his listeners. "He's moving all around and shaking and it's purely an act. ... This is really shameless of Michael J. Fox (javascript:siteSearch('Michael J. Fox');). Either he didn't take his medication or he's acting."

In addition to backing McCaskill, Fox's ads have been airing in support of Rep. Benjamin L. Cardin (javascript:siteSearch('Rep. Benjamin L. Cardin');), who is running for the Senate in Maryland, and Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle (javascript:siteSearch('Gov. Jim Doyle');).

Fox also was planning to appear at events for Sen. Robert Menendez (javascript:siteSearch('Sen. Robert Menendez');) of New Jersey and Tammy Duckworth (javascript:siteSearch('Tammy Duckworth');), a candidate for Congress from Illinois.

In the ad supporting McCaskill, which by Tuesday night had been viewed more than 1 million times on YouTube.com, Fox tells voters, "What you do in Missouri matters to millions of Americans. Americans like me."

"All stem cell research is legal today in Missouri," Limbaugh countered. "Jim Talent (javascript:siteSearch('Jim Talent');) does not seek to criminalize it, as Michael J. Fox (javascript:siteSearch('Michael J. Fox');) asserts in his television commercial. The truth is, Amendment 2 would put human cloning in the Missouri Constitution. Michael J. Fox (javascript:siteSearch('Michael J. Fox');) is participating in this disinformation campaign."

In addition to providing state constitutional protections for embryonic stem cell research, Amendment 2 (http://www.sos.mo.gov/elections/2006petitions/ppStemCell.asp) also would ban cloning and egg harvesting for stem cell research.

Limbaugh asserts, however, that language in the bill — a reference to somatic cell nuclear transfer — is just another term for cloning.
"The fine print creates a right to do somatic cell nuclear transfer which is the scientific term for cloning, the same method used to clone Dolly the sheep!" Limbaugh charged.

Talent, the Republican incumbent, opposes the amendment on the grounds that he equates embryonic stem cell research with human cloning.
Talent's spokesman, Rich Chrismer, told USA Today that Fox's statements were "false," and said Talent supports "stem cell research that doesn't involve cloning or destroying a human embryo."

"Democrats cannot look you in the eye and say, 'Here's what we're for' and convince you to vote for it. They have to trick you, and the Michael J. Fox commercial in Missouri and Maryland is just the latest incarnation," Limbaugh charged.

"Ludicrous," is how John Boockvar, a neurosurgeon and assistant professor at Weill Cornell Medical Center at New York's Presbyterian Hospital (javascript:siteSearch('Weill Cornell Medical Center at New York's Presbyterian Hospital');), described Limbaugh's claim that Fox was acting.
Parkinson's disease is a chronic, progressive disorder of the central nervous system that leaves patients increasingly unable to control their movements.
Boockvar said those with Parkinson's have "on" and "off" spells.

There's no question that Fox, a popular TV and movie actor who also campaigned for John Kerry in the 2004 presidential race, is uniquely suited as a spokesman for embryonic stem cell research, which some scientists believe could aid in discovering treatments or cures to Parkinson's and other diseases.

"I'm a one-issue guy. I'm about stem cells," Fox told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch earlier this month during a campaign appearance for McCaskill that raised almost $200,000 for the state auditor's senate bid.

"If there is one single disease that has the highest potential for benefit from stem cell research," Boockvar said, "it's Parkinson's."
"The reason that he's powerful is that he's comparatively young," says Kathleen Hall Jamieson (javascript:siteSearch('Kathleen Hall Jamieson');), director for the University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center (javascript:siteSearch('University of Pennsylvania's Annenberg Public Policy Center');). "As a result, a lot of people in that age range can look at him and say, 'If that can happen to him, it can happen to me.'"
The risk in airing the ads is that they could appear as using Fox's hopes for a cure for political gain, Jamieson said.
Limbaugh made a similar point on his Tuesday program.

"I don't care what anybody says; it is unseemly, it is exploitative, and it is downright mean to mislead people who suffer from horrible diseases that there is a cure around the corner — if only Republicans could be defeated," Limbaugh said.

Larry Sabato (javascript:siteSearch('Larry Sabato');), director of the Centre for Politics at the University of Virginia (javascript:siteSearch('Centre for Politics at the University of Virginia');), told the BBC that Fox's intervention could help decide the race.
"If a tiny ad can change votes, this one ought to," he said.
"This is real. He's not playing a guy with Parkinson's — he is a guy with Parkinson's."

In 2000, the "Spin City (javascript:siteSearch('Spin City');)" and "Back to the Future (javascript:siteSearch('Back to the Future');)" star quit full-time acting because of his symptoms and founded the Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research (javascript:siteSearch('Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research');), which has raised about $80 million for research and education.

Fox has since acted sporadically in smaller roles, such as in a several-episode guest appearance earlier this year on ABC's "Boston Legal (javascript:siteSearch('Boston Legal');)," playing a business tycoon with cancer. For that role and others, Fox generally has sought to control his movements, though his illness was evident.

He told The Associated Press in January that one long scene was physically taxing and that because of Parkinson's disease, he "can't show up with a game plan."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,224738,00.html

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I've heard one say this, one say that. This report says this, this report says that? Who do you believe anymore? You see it the way you will, I'll see it the way I will is what it really comes down to anymore......as far as Michael Fox? He dove into politics, he must be ready to accept scrutiny, all the rest who dabble do. Should he expect anything less because he's "special"? I should hope not. He needs to cowboy up if he's going to endorse a candidate on a national or state level and have his flack jacket handy. Today's politics knows no friend..dman

Seems all you can do is generalize and offer nothing more than vague ramblings that don't address any specific points. Once again (you have charged him with making false and or misleading statements), what did he say that was false or not accurate?

[BroncoInferno]

I'd like those that think they are science experts because they think so to prove embryonic stem cells work. Oh yeah, don't forget the work they've done with mice and just what a great success that's been so far. But obviously the embryonic believers believe it's ok to destroy life to experiment.(hmm, didn't Hitler dabble in that?)

Let's see Fox says a politician is against advanced stem cell research, but nothing about him supporting geneal stem cell research. He also gives the impression if you vote the way I think you should, embryonic stem cells will allow me to beat my disease despite the only proof being theory.

There is no ban on using embryos or making it illegal, which another lie the dims in this forum believe despite no proof of that either.

But then again, they do support Pelosi and Hillary, who support that parents don't need to be informed of their daughters having an abortion, so thereby saying the government has more rights than the parents do even though schools need permission from parents for kids to go on field trips and hospitals on any surgery. Well, that is othe than abortion of course. So worrying about human life is not that interesting to them, unless of course it's a child molester or a muslim terrorist, then they care about human life. Meanwhile, let's open up abortion clinics on each street corner and pay women for aborted fetuses to use for experments, just like that bill Fox is endorsing allows.

You're persistent, I'll give you that. Stupid and unmoved by reality, but persistent nonetheless.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

---------------------------------------------
Michael J. Fox's Appearance in TV Ad Typical of Parkinson's
Wednesday, October 25, 2006

By Michael W. Smith

When actor Michael J. Fox appeared in a TV political ad supporting stem cell research, a flurry of controversy erupted around his Parkinson’s disease symptoms.

Was he exaggerating, as one radio commentator suggested?

Many people don’t realize how severe Parkinson’s disease can be. This is largely because most of us have never witnessed these symptoms unless we personally know someone struggling with this disabling condition.

Fox has a very severe form of Parkinson’s that affected him at a young age. And he’s been through many aggressive treatments, including brain surgery.

The symptoms he displayed on the commercial are common Parkinson’s disease symptoms.

In the past we’ve witnessed his tremor that’s so characteristic of Parkinson’s. And his uncontrolled body movements that appeared during the commercial are also typical of Parkinson’s -- and also possibly a side effect of one of his medications.

Despite all his treatment, Fox continues to have severe Parkinson’s symptoms that are likely getting worse over time.

Unfortunately, medications often may not work that well, especially as the disease progresses. That’s why researchers are working furiously to find new and improved treatments for Parkinson’s.

More information on Parkinson’s disease symptoms and treatment can be found in WebMD’s Guide to Parkinson’s disease.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,225198,00.html

[bendog]

I'd like those that think they are science experts because they think so to prove embryonic stem cells work. Oh yeah, don't forget the work they've done with mice and just what a great success that's been so far. But obviously the embryonic believers believe it's ok to destroy life to experiment.(hmm, didn't Hitler dabble in that?)

Let's see Fox says a politician is against advanced stem cell research, but nothing about him supporting geneal stem cell research. He also gives the impression if you vote the way I think you should, embryonic stem cells will allow me to beat my disease despite the only proof being theory.

There is no ban on using embryos or making it illegal, which another lie the dims in this forum believe despite no proof of that either.

But then again, they do support Pelosi and Hillary, who support that parents don't need to be informed of their daughters having an abortion, so thereby saying the government has more rights than the parents do even though schools need permission from parents for kids to go on field trips and hospitals on any surgery. Well, that is othe than abortion of course. So worrying about human life is not that interesting to them, unless of course it's a child molester or a muslim terrorist, then they care about human life. Meanwhile, let's open up abortion clinics on each street corner and pay women for aborted fetuses to use for experments, just like that bill Fox is endorsing allows.


Barry, nobody is talking aborted fetuses. We're talking about frozen embryos that the "owners" don't want anymore, and which can be cloned, and then be taken apart without any living being suffereing any pain in any way, and there is a decent probability that doing that will create ways to end suffering in people with stuff like parkinsons and paralysis. Why are you so hateful? What do you fear?

Some slippery slope, no doubt, to using human fetuses or even using humans. So fine, pass a law prohibiting that. I'd wager brownback would get near unanimous support for that. But, no, that isn't enough. It's not the fear of the slippery slope that gets people like you going. Rather, its your need to use the govt to push your religious views on me, and that is supposed to be un-American.

[defenseman]

I'd like those that think they are science experts because they think so to prove embryonic stem cells work. Oh yeah, don't forget the work they've done with mice and just what a great success that's been so far. But obviously the embryonic believers believe it's ok to destroy life to experiment.(hmm, didn't Hitler dabble in that?)

Let's see Fox says a politician is against advanced stem cell research, but nothing about him supporting geneal stem cell research. He also gives the impression if you vote the way I think you should, embryonic stem cells will allow me to beat my disease despite the only proof being theory.

There is no ban on using embryos or making it illegal, which another lie the dims in this forum believe despite no proof of that either.

But then again, they do support Pelosi and Hillary, who support that parents don't need to be informed of their daughters having an abortion, so thereby saying the government has more rights than the parents do even though schools need permission from parents for kids to go on field trips and hospitals on any surgery. Well, that is othe than abortion of course. So worrying about human life is not that interesting to them, unless of course it's a child molester or a muslim terrorist, then they care about human life. Meanwhile, let's open up abortion clinics on each street corner and pay women for aborted fetuses to use for experments, just like that bill Fox is endorsing allows.

Funny thing is, one of the newest techniques presently being attempted is drilling two nickel sized holed into a parkinson patient's head and inserting a specific virus. Apparently, the virus in question alleviates alot of the symptoms of many patients quite abit. The specifics I dare not try to describe as full understanding I certianly don't have. However, according to some experts, it helps greatly in alleviating the parkinson issues and symptoms. My question, why hasn't Mr. Fox tried this? This treatment, according to some experts anyway, does help. In any case, just a bit of fuel to the fire...dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Funny thing is, one of the newest techniques presently being attempted is drilling two nickel sized holed into a parkinson patient's head and inserting a specific virus. Apparently, the virus in question alleviates alot of the symptoms of many patients quite abit. The specifics I dare not try to describe as full understanding I certianly don't have. However, according to some experts, it helps greatly in alleviating the parkinson issues and symptoms. My question, why hasn't Mr. Fox tried this? This treatment, according to some experts anyway, does help. In any case, just a bit of fuel to the fire...dman
Are you for real? This is so ignorant it's really kind of sad that there are people who actually think in this kind of process.

Do you know what stage he is in, what symptoms he has, how severe those symptoms are? You do know he's already had brain surgery?

I have Meniere's but I'm not going to try a vestibular nerve section or Labyrinthectomy to relieve my symptoms until I'm completely unable to function. Cutting holes in your skull is the LAST thing a person wants to do unless this is one the last remaining things left in the treatment list to try.

[BroncoInferno]

Once again (you have charged him with making false and or misleading statements), what did he say that was false or not accurate?

Still waiting for you to back this up, dman.

[defenseman]

good case of stupid .......... Half truth ?
I have an aunt with Parkinsons , I would like to hear your half truth ..........
No I am not picking on you , Barrey is to stupid to deal with .......... Perhaps you are also . we will find out .............

You need to be looking in mirror spide, and worry about yourself...dman

*Sorry didn't get back to your right away, been really busy...

[defenseman]

What did he say that was misleading?

the democratic Rep wants to expand stem cell funding especially to the crucial embryonic research that has shown promise for Parkinson's disease.

On the other hand the Republican Rep. does not support expanding stem cell funding and in fact wants to outlaw embryonic research (the abortion BS again)

Those are facts and are only misleading to people ignorant of the science behind this. Since you are always saying you want to see "all" the facts maybe now is a good time to brush up on what this debate is truly about.

I'm going to search the text, But I'm thinking what you are saying is NOT exactly what he said. I'm thinking Fox put a baby blanket around ALL stem cell research with the way he worded it.....dman

[defenseman]

Are you for real? This is so ignorant it's really kind of sad that there are people who actually think in this kind of process.

Do you know what stage he is in, what symptoms he has, how severe those symptoms are? You do know he's already had brain surgery?

I have Meniere's but I'm not going to try a vestibular nerve section or Labyrinthectomy to relieve my symptoms until I'm completely unable to function. Cutting holes in your skull is the LAST thing a person wants to unless this is one the last remaining things left in the treatment list to try.

Yeah, I'm for real, and yes they apparently have made some strides in this area? What's wrong with providing an alternative method? Maybe he has tried , who knows, then again who knew a virus could help out someone with his issues. I emphathize with him though, tough disease, tough way to go which makes it that much more important to look at everything on the market available it would seem to me. Later...dman

[defenseman]

Still waiting for you to back this up, dman.

I'll get there, give it a rest there big guy...dman

[Barry Ramey]

Why don't the ones that support that bill in Missouri, like Fox, come clean and tell the truth that it's a pro cloning bill? Why do they have to hide it? Since they're hiding it and aren't telling the truth about it, pretty much tells you all you need to know. Of course won't stop the emptyheads on the left from rubberstamping it since would require the ability to think for oneself and I can clearly see that's a chore for many of the lefties around here. As long as there is a "d" by a name, they vote for it. Such deep, great thinkers as they like to believe :rofl:

[alkemical]

Why don't the ones that don't support that bill, come clean and tell the truth that it's a pro cloning fear tactic that us god fearing humans are using? Why do we have to hide it? Since we're hiding behind it and aren't telling the truth about it, pretty much tells you all you need to know about us. Of course this won't stop the emptyheads on the right from shooting it down like dead-eye dick cheney, since would require the ability to think for oneself and I can clearly see that's a chore for many of my fellow righties around here. As long as there is a "r" by a name, they vote for it. Such deep, great thinkers as we like to believe :rofl:

;)

[bendog]

;)

why does he want to control my DNA?

[defenseman]

Still waiting for you to back this up, dman.

Define for me one phrase...."expanding stem cell research"...dman

[alkemical]

why does he want to control my DNA?



Don't you get it by now bendog.

With american political landscaping done to do nothing more than reduce people to hot button issues (since it's an ADD-America by design), and root root for "my team" nothing will get done. Those in power agree and love this since it distracts us "joes" from what is really going on.

So while the "Conservatives" say this isn't good and this is bad, they say it's picking up the eugenics process where hitler left off. Yet they fail to see the same 'logic' that the expanisve use of gov't over daily lives and monitoring of information was hitlerish too.

Hmmmm -

[Spider]

You need to be looking in mirror spide, and worry about yourself...dman

*Sorry didn't get back to your right away, been really busy...

and this answers the question how ?

[defenseman]

Why don't the ones that support that bill in Missouri, like Fox, come clean and tell the truth that it's a pro cloning bill? Why do they have to hide it? Since they're hiding it and aren't telling the truth about it, pretty much tells you all you need to know. Of course won't stop the emptyheads on the left from rubberstamping it since would require the ability to think for oneself and I can clearly see that's a chore for many of the lefties around here. As long as there is a "d" by a name, they vote for it. Such deep, great thinkers as they like to believe :rofl:

that only works to a point. Do you feel the repubs have stated their positoin well enough with respect to the subject of abortion and embryonic stem cel research?.....dman

*It appears obvious to me anyway the reason they don't support embryonic stem cell research is that they tie it right to abortion. Am I wrong?

[defenseman]

Define for me one phrase...."expanding stem cell research"...dman

Someone needs to step up on this. "expanding stem cell research" was specifically called out by Mr. Fox. Care to comment on what this really means?....dman

[ScottXray]

I was listening to the radio yesterday and they were talking about this measure 2 in Missouri.

Apparently there are two very prestigious institutes in the state that do research in this area. Those Institutes are trying to attract some Big Names in the field to come work for them. They are not having success because there are several state legislators trying to pass bills that would effectively make the research, currently being done, a criminal act punishable with jail terms for the researchers.

What measure 2, if passed, does is make it illegal for the state of Missouri to pass a law, in regards to stem cell research, that is MORE restrictive than the federal law. In other words, it does not legalise anything that is already federally prohibited, and is very specific in that regard. If it's illegal Federally it will be illegal in Missouri. It just ensures the researchers there, that the state won't be able to throw them in prison for doing legal stem cell research, and gives these institutes the legal assurance they need to attract top minds.

All the" it legalises abortion and cloning" stuff is just that..stuff. But the disinfornation campaign is in full swing.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Someone needs to step up on this. "expanding stem cell research" was specifically called out by Mr. Fox. Care to comment on what this really means?....dman
What don't you understand about it? It's self explanatory. Go back read the statements and watch the video and listen this time. There's no "hidden" message.... Geeeezus!!

[Barry Ramey]

Oh, here's a read the yellow dog democrats around here will just love!

DAVID FRUM'S DIARY:

Oct. 26, 2006: The Cry Baby Party
Let me see if I understand the rules of American politics in 2006:

It's in bounds to write a deliberately deceptive voter initiative to try to inscribe embryo-killing research into a state's law.

It's in bounds for a likeable and suffering celebrity to suggest that such research is poised to deliver a cure that will help him - despite the utter absence of evidence for any such claim.

It's in bounds for Democratic politicians to promise (as John Edwards promised in 2004) that if embryo-killing research goes forward, the disabled will rise from their wheelchairs and walk again.

But it's out of bounds for a conservative radio broadcaster to question the honesty of the initiative or the truth of the claims made on its behalf.

It's in bounds for Democrats to accuse the Republican leadership in the House of harboring and protecting sexual predators.

It's in bounds for Democrats to urge Pennsylvania voters to defeat Republican incumbent Don Sherwood because of his misconduct in his marriage.

It's in bounds for anonymous Democrats to substantiate accusations of Republican immorality by spreading whispers about a camping trip on which Jim Kolbe, five of his staffers, and Kolbe's sister were joined by two congressional pages - even when all concerned agree that no misbehavior of any kind occurred or was even hinted at.

But it's out of bounds for Republicans to note in a campaign ad that a Democratic senatorial candidate attended a football party sponsored by Playboy magazine.

That's private - and it's racist to think otherwise.

Got it?

Or is it too complicated?

If so, let me simplify:

Democrats may say what they please and do as they please - Republican speech must be carefully scrutinized for any hint of inappropriateness - and all Republicans be immediately called on to disavow anything anywhere done with less than perfect gentlemanliness & elegance.

Democrats may strike in any way they like - and may go sobbing to the media if they get back any portion of what they dish out.

And it works, because after all: in this game, the ref wears their jersey.

Posted at 11:22 AM


http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTliOWQ0ZmRjNmUxZTE1YjMyNGI4NTE4NzUxM2Y5N2M=

[TheDave]

Oh, here's a read the yellow dog democrats around here will just love!

DAVID FRUM'S DIARY:

Oct. 26, 2006: The Cry Baby Party
Let me see if I understand the rules of American politics in 2006:

It's in bounds to write a deliberately deceptive voter initiative to try to inscribe embryo-killing research into a state's law.

It's in bounds for a likeable and suffering celebrity to suggest that such research is poised to deliver a cure that will help him - despite the utter absence of evidence for any such claim.

It's in bounds for Democratic politicians to promise (as John Edwards promised in 2004) that if embryo-killing research goes forward, the disabled will rise from their wheelchairs and walk again.

But it's out of bounds for a conservative radio broadcaster to question the honesty of the initiative or the truth of the claims made on its behalf.

It's in bounds for Democrats to accuse the Republican leadership in the House of harboring and protecting sexual predators.

It's in bounds for Democrats to urge Pennsylvania voters to defeat Republican incumbent Don Sherwood because of his misconduct in his marriage.

It's in bounds for anonymous Democrats to substantiate accusations of Republican immorality by spreading whispers about a camping trip on which Jim Kolbe, five of his staffers, and Kolbe's sister were joined by two congressional pages - even when all concerned agree that no misbehavior of any kind occurred or was even hinted at.

But it's out of bounds for Republicans to note in a campaign ad that a Democratic senatorial candidate attended a football party sponsored by Playboy magazine.

That's private - and it's racist to think otherwise.

Got it?

Or is it too complicated?

If so, let me simplify:

Democrats may say what they please and do as they please - Republican speech must be carefully scrutinized for any hint of inappropriateness - and all Republicans be immediately called on to disavow anything anywhere done with less than perfect gentlemanliness & elegance.

Democrats may strike in any way they like - and may go sobbing to the media if they get back any portion of what they dish out.

And it works, because after all: in this game, the ref wears their jersey.

Posted at 11:22 AM


http://frum.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZTliOWQ0ZmRjNmUxZTE1YjMyNGI4NTE4NzUxM2Y5N2M=


Once again Barry.... Why are you against embryonic stem cell research?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Oh, here's a read the yellow dog democrats around here will just love!
DAVID FRUM'S DIARY:

Are you kidding LOL

David J. Frum (born 1960), a Canadian-American former speechwriter for President George W. Bush, and the author of the first "insider" book about the Bush presidency. Born in Toronto, Canada to Jewish parents, Frum is a strong supporter of Israel and a prominent neoconservative.

In January 2003, he released The Right Man: The Surprise Presidency of George W. Bush, the first insider account of the Bush presidency. Frum is widely cited as having authored the phrase "axis of evil," which he discusses in his book. In fact, though, his original phrasing was "axis of hatred". As the title suggests, Frum also discusses how the events of September 11, 2001 redefined the country and the President. Frum writes, "George W. Bush was hardly the obvious man for the job. But by a very strange fate, he turned out to be, of all unlikely things, the right man."

Frum's latest book, An End to Evil, was co-written with Richard Perle. It provided a defense of the 2003 invasion of Iraq, and advocated regime change in Iran and Syria. Furthermore, it called for a tougher policy with North Korea, as well as advocating a tougher U.S. stance against Saudi Arabia and other Islamic nations in order to "win the war on terror" (the book's by-line).

The book received negative reviews from the Left (and from paleoconservatives like Patrick Buchanan) but positive views from the mainstream Right, with the Left contending that it only served to further isolate America in the world's eyes, while the Right argued it constituted a realistic manifesto of how the United States should fight terror. Fareed Zakaria criticised it heavily in a New York Times column (Showing Them Who's Boss), taking a jibe at the authors by suggesting, "To transform the world, you do actually need to engage in it."

http://tinyurl.com/y4cbaq

[defenseman]

What don't you understand about it? It's self explanatory. Go back read the statements and watch the video and listen this time. There's no "hidden" message.... Geeeezus!!

The "other" half of the story, was not presented, ergo, guilty by ommission is the way I see it. What Fox doesn't explain is : 1) the propostion in question does limit cloning via utilizing a willing female, it does NOT prevent cloning in a Lab type enviroment. This is very, very bad. 2) There have been numerous treatments/cures generated from adult stem cells, ZERO to date from embryonic stem cells. 3) There is NO REGULATION with respect to the embryonic research either at the state or local government , let alone at the federal level. He prayed on peoples emotions, people feel bad for him so they vote for the amendment NOT KNOWING what they voted for. Really sad.

That said, do I personally believe we need to get into embryonic. Absolutely, but NOT without controls. ANY proposal which would have a loophole or clause ALLOWING Cloning, and with NO regulation will not work.
The question of "killing" of a human being due to embryonic research is a personal one for all of us. However, if material containing embryonic stem cells is going to be discarded anyway, at a minumum we should start using it for research.

Cures/treatments via adult stem cells:

a. Spinal chord injuries-Laura Domiquez
b. Heart attacks/failures/cardiac degeneration
c. Corneal reconstruction
d. Leukemia
e. Diabetes
f. There's others out there. They've had reasonable success w/adult stem cells from what I can tell..


*Why do I have a problem with Fox? He's allowed himself to be duped by the people responsible for this proposed amendment to the constitution in missouri. All the imformation was not presented, and the ad prayed on the emotions of the viewer, when behind the scenes this measure would drastically change stem cell research as we know it, Potentially allowing lab cloning , without controls of any sort. He allowed himself to be taken by these people. The ommission of some key facts wrt to the amendment is telling the "half truth", the duping of Michael J. Fox is on him himself. To be honest though, I do sympathize with him. A dreadful disease, he's just wants a chance at a cure, I can't blame him for that. However, not at any cost...dman

[Barry Ramey]

I don't know if Fox knows the loopholes or not, no one seems willing to ask him, but it's his responsibility to know what exactly he's telling others to do. Since this bill does have these hidden loopholes, then obviously the need to trick people and if they need to trick people, then one has to conclude they know the masses wouldn't vote for it otherwise. But people continue the lies of embryonic research is so promising despite the evidence, so they aren't very interested in the truth anyway. Just promote their agenda any way they can.

[defenseman]

I don't know if Fox knows the loopholes or not, no one seems willing to ask him, but it's his responsibility to know what exactly he's telling others to do. Since this bill does have these hidden loopholes, then obviously the need to trick people and if they need to trick people, then one has to conclude they know the masses wouldn't vote for it otherwise. But people continue the lies of embryonic research is so promising despite the evidence, so they aren't very interested in the truth anyway. Just promote their agenda any way they can.

The promise of a host of cures wrt embryonic stem cell research is quite simply, wrong. Nothing to date, from my understanding will or has been cured with embryonic stem cells, however that is not to say it can't happen. I hope they do cure the ills of the world, that would be a wonderful thing. But, do it honestly and above board...dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The promise of a host of cures wrt embryonic stem cell research is quite simply, wrong. Nothing to date, from my understanding will or has been cured with embryonic stem cells, however that is not to say it can't happen. I hope they do cure the ills of the world, that would be a wonderful thing. But, do it honestly and above board...dman
You and Ramey playing ya ya boys again I see.

"OMFG those evil bastards want to unleash their hidden devil moral agenda on us God fearing Christians".

It's apparent NEITHER of you understand what he's asking for.

[bendog]

D-Man, that's akin to saying in 1939 that fission was impossible. No one knows, and there's only one way to find out.

And, barry, why are you against embryonic stem cell research? Is it cloning, or is it that slippery slope to the vast maj of us saying ... well, yeah that's not really abortion if its just and embryo?

[defenseman]

Fox is forwarding his cause, agreed. But at too high of a price, potential cloning issues. This is not a good thing. And beerslug, it's everyone's choice whether or not they agree with this sort of thing, there is no right answer. I personally do not agree with cloning or using it to generate embryonic stem cells for research, I believe it's wrong. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion or god from where I sit. If you are going to continue to bash based on someones right to have an opinion on an issue, for which, there really is no right or wrong answer, there really is no reason for anyone to come here and have any conversation with you. I stated my reasons, and their basis. Your answer is to criticize, bash and group everyone into the religious right. If you have data to refute my take , then do so. Other than that, I suggest you call the dissedent group at Columbia university who decided it was OK to disrupt a minuteman speaker from completing his presentation. You'll fit right in with those folks. Your attack on my take is right up their alley..dman

*Tell me where I'm wrong factually, and I'll listen, other than that, I feel I've addressed your comment enough wrt why I didn't think Fox was telling the whole story.

[defenseman]

You and Ramey playing ya ya boys again I see.

"OMFG those evil bastards want to unleash their hidden devil moral agenda on us God fearing Christians".

It's apparent NEITHER of you understand what he's asking for.

What he's asking for is NOT what is being portrayed. I stated in no uncertian terms the potential results of what he wants, and their specific limitations. Devil morals and god fearing christians have nothing to do with it. Cloning is an issue, and it should continue to be an issue. This amendment is the end justifying the means, and, it will get shot down in missouri, as it should be...dman

[bendog]

Come on Barry, come clean. Tell the truth. It'll be like getting a hundred pound monkey off yer back.

The issue has put Doyle, a Catholic, at odds with church leaders in the state. It also risks motivating the state's powerful anti-abortion groups that back Green, also a Catholic.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061027/ap_on_el_gu/stem_cell_governors

[defenseman]

D-Man, that's akin to saying in 1939 that fission was impossible. No one knows, and there's only one way to find out.

And, barry, why are you against embryonic stem cell research? Is it cloning, or is it that slippery slope to the vast maj of us saying ... well, yeah that's not really abortion if its just and embryo?

Agreed. However, it needs to be done the correct way. Cloning should not and CANNOT be allowed to produce the embryonic stem cells in question. The Missouri ammendment leaves cloning in the lab, unchecked, unfeddered and uncontrolled. It will not be voted in, regardless of who may endorse it, once the folks in missouri are informed on it's pitfalls...dman

*I'll say it again, I've got no problem with this sort of research, the right way. Not the wrong way, and potential cloning unchecked is definitely the wrong way. But, as they say, this is a personal choice to which there truley is no right answer to. You either agree, or disagree, and that's about it.....

[bendog]

What's wrong with cloning D-Man?

Don't you see what this is about? The anti-choice crowd wants to put this as an issue of "they're making embryos to kill." Cloning uses embryos that will be destroyed anyway to get around that argument. (and it's more effective and probably cheaper than harvesting eggs and getting sperm.) Now if these christian-0-facists are really concerned about cloning people, that can be dealt with, and in fact already has been in the US by scientific ethics.

[defenseman]

What's wrong with cloning D-Man?

Don't you see what this is about? The anti-choice crowd wants to put this as an issue of "they're making embryos to kill." Cloning uses embryos that will be destroyed anyway to get around that argument. (and it's more effective and probably cheaper than harvesting eggs and getting sperm.) Now if these christian-0-facists are really concerned about cloning people, that can be dealt with, and in fact already has been in the US by scientific ethics.

The thought of "cloning" human beings absolutely mortifies me. Just my feelings on it. Again, cloning human beings is a personal opinion either for or against. There is no right answer. However, embryonic stem cells utilized for research, that would be "destroyed" anyway, I don't have a problem with. I will say, the missouri ammendment DOES NOT cover all the bases it needs to, the key one being cloning, which I am very opposed to. Too many doors get opened that shouldn't be opened by the missouri ammendment as far as I'm concerned..dman

*the thought of cloning another human being, well, it just scares the hell out of me. What's next if that is allowed? Who knows....

[defenseman]

What's wrong with cloning D-Man?

Don't you see what this is about? The anti-choice crowd wants to put this as an issue of "they're making embryos to kill." Cloning uses embryos that will be destroyed anyway to get around that argument. (and it's more effective and probably cheaper than harvesting eggs and getting sperm.) Now if these christian-0-facists are really concerned about cloning people, that can be dealt with, and in fact already has been in the US by scientific ethics.

the missouri amendment doesn't properly address the issue, ergo, it won't get passed. Especially in missouri once they find out cloning is not excluded in a lab enviroment....dman

[bendog]

Oh, so your objection to cloning is that it isn't limited to just cloning embryos? You're concerned someone will clone entire adult humans, or pets or something?

If so, you're getting humped in the ass by christian-0-facists, because if cloning is permissible for stem cell purposes, then it's a positive. And, that's what they're desperate to avoid facing. Once an embryo can be created and then used, and destroyed, to achieve a morally good thing, they're on a slippery slope to having to accept the morning after pill. That's the issue here.

If the issue were unethical uses of cloning, that could be legislated.

[TheDave]

The thought of "cloning" human beings absolutely mortifies me. Just my feelings on it. Again, cloning human beings is a personal opinion either for or against. There is no right answer. However, embryonic stem cells utilized for research, that would be "destroyed" anyway, I don't have a problem with. I will say, the missouri ammendment DOES NOT cover all the bases it needs to, the key one being cloning, which I am very opposed to. Too many doors get opened that shouldn't be opened by the missouri ammendment as far as I'm concerned..dman

*the thought of cloning another human being, well, it just scares the hell out of me. What's next if that is allowed? Who knows....

Cloning embryo's and cloning complete human beings are two opposite ends of the spectrum. First lets get this out of the way, i do not think that complete human cloning should be legal... there i said it.

The problem here comes from a lack of education... To say that all cloning be illegal is naive. Cloning of cells happens every day in labs world -wide. Stop falling for the Sci-Fi scare tactics. No one is pushing for complete human cloning... Just some 4-6 cell clusters to aide in research

[defenseman]

Cloning embryo's and cloning complete human beings are two opposite ends of the spectrum. First lets get this out of the way, i do not think that complete human cloning should be legal... there i said it.

The problem here comes from a lack of education... To say that all cloning be illegal is naive. Cloning of cells happens every day in labs world -wide. Stop falling for the Sci-Fi scare tactics. No one is pushing for complete human cloning... Just some 4-6 cell clusters to aide in research

Help me out here. IF, the cloning of a human being is not possible, say so. Second, I really want to fall onto the correct side on this based on facts not religion. Based on that point of view, if you could provide me with some place that can put it into a lamen's explanation of how we can't clone a human being I want to see it for sure. Falling for sci - fi tactics I certianly don't want to do, but everything I've looked at so far supports the cloning of a human being is possible? Am I wrong? If so, help me out here, I'm just trying to get the facts. In addition, for the record, cloning of humans should not EVER be allowed, ever. But that's just my opinion..dman

[defenseman]

Cloning embryo's and cloning complete human beings are two opposite ends of the spectrum. First lets get this out of the way, i do not think that complete human cloning should be legal... there i said it.

The problem here comes from a lack of education... To say that all cloning be illegal is naive. Cloning of cells happens every day in labs world -wide. Stop falling for the Sci-Fi scare tactics. No one is pushing for complete human cloning... Just some 4-6 cell clusters to aide in research


Or is the question, define when life begins? When does something have a soul? That's not what I'm looking for, can we clone a full grown human being , yes or no?...dman

[TheDave]

Help me out here. IF, the cloning of a human being is not possible, say so. Second, I really want to fall onto the correct side on this based on facts not religion. Based on that point of view, if you could provide me with some place that can put it into a lamen's explanation of how we can't clone a human being I want to see it for sure. Falling for sci - fi tactics I certianly don't want to do, but everything I've looked at so far supports the cloning of a human being is possible? Am I wrong? If so, help me out here, I'm just trying to get the facts. In addition, for the record, cloning of humans should not EVER be allowed, ever. But that's just my opinion..dman

This site does a pretty good job of explaining it....

http://abc.net.au/science/slab/stemcells/default.htm


Cloning for therapy

Another approach to overcoming the problem of tissue rejection is to be 'transplanted' with cells containing your own genetic material. But this involves the most contentious of all stem cell therapies — therapeutic cloning.

This is how it would work for diabetes


http://abc.net.au/science/slab/stemcells/img/cloning_diagram.gif

'Therapeutic cloning' was the intention stated by the US company, Advanced Cell Technology, when it announced in November 2001 that it had created a cloned human embryo. This was a preliminary development — the longest-surviving embryo reached only the six-cell stage, and no stem cells were harvested. But the development was significant because it was done by transferring the nucleus of an adult cell into an egg cell which had had its own nucleus removed. Called 'somatic cell nuclear transfer', this is the same technique that was used to create Dolly the sheep.

Skorecki is planning to use the same nuclear transfer technique, but in a different way. It involves the combination of two of the most debated issues, genetic engineering and cloning. He believes that therapeutic cloning from each patient's own cells would be too costly and not practical. "We genetically modify the cloned adult cells [from other cell lines] so that they interfere with the cell's mechanism of tissue rejection," he says. Ideally, these cloned insulin-producing cells will not be rejected by any patient.

Human embryonic stem cells have been successfully turned into insulin-producing cells, blood cells and nerve cells. But even if the problem of tissue rejection is overcome, the big question, says Leon McQuade, is whether the transplanted cells will continue to function once inside a patient's body. For diabetes, though, he says: "Even if they need to be replenished once a year, it's a better option than injecting insulin on a day to day basis".

At Melbourne's Monash University, Professor Alan Trounson's team was the first in the world to create mature nerve cells from human embryonic stem cells. That team has just announced that they have successfully transplanted nerve cells into the brain of newborn mice. The cells seemed to function like normal brain cells, meaning such an approach shows real promise for treating neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's.

[TheDave]

Or is the question, define when life begins? When does something have a soul? That's not what I'm looking for, can we clone a full grown human being , yes or no?...dman

Since it has never been done, at least there is no public knowledge of this, the answer is no. On the other hand, i fail to see how this could be much more difficult than Dolly the sheep. I realize there are significant differences but nothing that could not be overcome with additional trials.

[ScottXray]

Help me out here. IF, the cloning of a human being is not possible, say so. Second, I really want to fall onto the correct side on this based on facts not religion. Based on that point of view, if you could provide me with some place that can put it into a lamen's explanation of how we can't clone a human being I want to see it for sure. Falling for sci - fi tactics I certianly don't want to do, but everything I've looked at so far supports the cloning of a human being is possible? Am I wrong? If so, help me out here, I'm just trying to get the facts. In addition, for the record, cloning of humans should not EVER be allowed, ever. But that's just my opinion..dman

A Few things here.
1. Even a cloned Human embryo would need a human womb to come to term. We do NOT have the technology of the Brave New World (bottled babies). A human woman would have to carry the embryo in order to achieve any possible growth beyond a small cell cluster.

2. Cloning may be possible in the above circumstance. The fact is , that MOST clonings that have been attempted have still failed...even at the animal level. Human clones would be a thorny problem both morally and legally...but if you believe in the right to life or in the sanctity of life in general what difference is there between this and in-vitro fertilisation? Both require science and technology to aid in the formation of a human being. Many of the embryos created this way are "disposed" of. Should we ban ALL science assisted births?

3. Fox is not supporting Measure 2 directly... but rather asking the voters to support the Democratic Senate candidate in Missouri, Claire McCaskell, because she supports government funded stem cell research. Her opponent does not.

The problem with ALL these issues is the same one over and over...
Where do you draw a line? And who decides?

[defenseman]

A Few things here.
1. Even a cloned Human embryo would need a human womb to come to term. We do NOT have the technology of the Brave New World (bottled babies). A human woman would have to carry the embryo in order to achieve any possible growth beyond a small cell cluster.

2. Cloning may be possible in the above circumstance. The fact is , that MOST clonings that have been attempted have still failed...even at the animal level. Human clones would be a thorny problem both morally and legally...but if you believe in the right to life or in the sanctity of life in general what difference is there between this and in-vitro fertilisation? Both require science and technology to aid in the formation of a human being. Many of the embryos created this way are "disposed" of. Should we ban ALL science assisted births?

3. Fox is not supporting Measure 2 directly... but rather asking the voters to support the Democratic Senate candidate in Missouri, Claire McCaskell, because she supports government funded stem cell research. Her opponent does not.

The problem with ALL these issues is the same one over and over...
Where do you draw a line? And who decides?


It doesn't matter whether Fox supports it or not. He has thrown his hat into the political ring and labeled one politician as a non supporter, and the other a supporter, on the "politics" behind Measure 2. Measure 2 IS the thrust of the "political" ad in missouri. Ergo, by default , he is behind it. If he DID NOT agree with it, he should have NOT done the Ad, simple as that. He is not allowed to have his cake and eat it too, just like the rest of us. Bottom line, he is now a political figure wrt measure 2 whether he likes it or not......dman

[Barry Ramey]

Yep, if Fox just stated he supported democrats because he thinks they would do what he wants in regards to stem cells, then it's a free country, can support who he wants. But once he starts telling others to support a bill that isn't honest in its writing, then he's free to be criticized. Lefties like having Fox, 9/11 widows, and Sheehan to name a few speak the things they want others to think and match their own views and because they are considered victims, should be free from criticism no matter what they say.

[TheDave]

Yep, if Fox just stated he supported democrats because he thinks they would do what he wants in regards to stem cells, then it's a free country, can support who he wants. But once he starts telling others to support a bill that isn't honest in its writing, then he's free to be criticized. Lefties like having Fox, 9/11 widows, and Sheehan to name a few speak the things they want others to think and match their own views and because they are considered victims, should be free from criticism no matter what they say.


Ever going to answer the question Barry?


Why are you against Embryonic Stem Cell Research?

[defenseman]

This site does a pretty good job of explaining it....

http://abc.net.au/science/slab/stemcells/default.htm


Cloning for therapy

Another approach to overcoming the problem of tissue rejection is to be 'transplanted' with cells containing your own genetic material. But this involves the most contentious of all stem cell therapies — therapeutic cloning.

This is how it would work for diabetes


http://abc.net.au/science/slab/stemcells/img/cloning_diagram.gif

'Therapeutic cloning' was the intention stated by the US company, Advanced Cell Technology, when it announced in November 2001 that it had created a cloned human embryo. This was a preliminary development — the longest-surviving embryo reached only the six-cell stage, and no stem cells were harvested. But the development was significant because it was done by transferring the nucleus of an adult cell into an egg cell which had had its own nucleus removed. Called 'somatic cell nuclear transfer', this is the same technique that was used to create Dolly the sheep.

Skorecki is planning to use the same nuclear transfer technique, but in a different way. It involves the combination of two of the most debated issues, genetic engineering and cloning. He believes that therapeutic cloning from each patient's own cells would be too costly and not practical. "We genetically modify the cloned adult cells [from other cell lines] so that they interfere with the cell's mechanism of tissue rejection," he says. Ideally, these cloned insulin-producing cells will not be rejected by any patient.

Human embryonic stem cells have been successfully turned into insulin-producing cells, blood cells and nerve cells. But even if the problem of tissue rejection is overcome, the big question, says Leon McQuade, is whether the transplanted cells will continue to function once inside a patient's body. For diabetes, though, he says: "Even if they need to be replenished once a year, it's a better option than injecting insulin on a day to day basis".

At Melbourne's Monash University, Professor Alan Trounson's team was the first in the world to create mature nerve cells from human embryonic stem cells. That team has just announced that they have successfully transplanted nerve cells into the brain of newborn mice. The cells seemed to function like normal brain cells, meaning such an approach shows real promise for treating neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's.


I'll get to this Dave. Thanks for the input....busier than a one legged man in an a$$ kicking contest right now...dman

[baja]

I like busier than a one armed wallpaper hanger with the crabs

[Barry Ramey]

Oh, looks like the left's hero admits he hasn't even read the Missouri Amendment, but he'll tell voters what they should do without knowing what they would really be voting for. Yes, what a responsible spokesman.


Stephanopoulos: In the ad now running in Missouri, Jim Caviezel speaks in Aramaic. It means, "You betray me with a kiss." And his position, his point, is that actually even though down in Missouri they say the initiative is against cloning, it's actually going to allow human cloning.

Fox: Well, I don't think that's true. You know, I campaigned for Claire McCaskill. And so I have to qualify it by saying I'm not qualified to speak on the page-to-page content of the initiative. Although, I am quite sure that I'll agree with it in spirit, I don't know, I— On full disclosure, I haven't read it, and that's why I didn't put myself up for it distinctly.

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=2613377&page=2

[bendog]

Barry never answered, did he.

[TheDave]

Barry never answered, did he.

He11 no, then he would have to engage in conversation... it's easier to post Rush's and Coulter's talking points

[alkemical]

.

[defenseman]

This site does a pretty good job of explaining it....

http://abc.net.au/science/slab/stemcells/default.htm


Cloning for therapy

Another approach to overcoming the problem of tissue rejection is to be 'transplanted' with cells containing your own genetic material. But this involves the most contentious of all stem cell therapies — therapeutic cloning.

This is how it would work for diabetes


http://abc.net.au/science/slab/stemcells/img/cloning_diagram.gif

'Therapeutic cloning' was the intention stated by the US company, Advanced Cell Technology, when it announced in November 2001 that it had created a cloned human embryo. This was a preliminary development — the longest-surviving embryo reached only the six-cell stage, and no stem cells were harvested. But the development was significant because it was done by transferring the nucleus of an adult cell into an egg cell which had had its own nucleus removed. Called 'somatic cell nuclear transfer', this is the same technique that was used to create Dolly the sheep.

Skorecki is planning to use the same nuclear transfer technique, but in a different way. It involves the combination of two of the most debated issues, genetic engineering and cloning. He believes that therapeutic cloning from each patient's own cells would be too costly and not practical. "We genetically modify the cloned adult cells [from other cell lines] so that they interfere with the cell's mechanism of tissue rejection," he says. Ideally, these cloned insulin-producing cells will not be rejected by any patient.

Human embryonic stem cells have been successfully turned into insulin-producing cells, blood cells and nerve cells. But even if the problem of tissue rejection is overcome, the big question, says Leon McQuade, is whether the transplanted cells will continue to function once inside a patient's body. For diabetes, though, he says: "Even if they need to be replenished once a year, it's a better option than injecting insulin on a day to day basis".

At Melbourne's Monash University, Professor Alan Trounson's team was the first in the world to create mature nerve cells from human embryonic stem cells. That team has just announced that they have successfully transplanted nerve cells into the brain of newborn mice. The cells seemed to function like normal brain cells, meaning such an approach shows real promise for treating neurodegenerative diseases like Parkinson's.


Ok, finally got around to reading it. Good read, somewhat enlightening and answered some questions I had nagging at me. I fully endorse embryonic research on stem cells as long as the "research" never allows for the cloning of a human being. Ergo, the words in whatever amendment need to specifically call that out, and I am happy with it. Simple as that. God only know what the world would be like if another Dman should start running around the planet...dman

*Good read somewhere on some british scientist that grew a new liver. Simply amazing, holds great promise to hopefully solve many medical issues we now face. Again though, no human being clones allowed. I actually read alot more than just this, needed lots of information to make my decision. and fortunately , there is alot of info available, both for and against..

[bendog]

I still don't see the "scientific" objection to cloning embryonic stem cells. Moreover, its the only practical approach.

The Rel Right is horrified, because it's a slipperly sloap to saying the morning after pill is A-OK, which it is to 75-80% of us.

Morally it's an interesting question. D-Man brought up the soul. If Man creates something with "life," can it have a soul? I'd think not.

[ScottXray]

I still don't see the "scientific" objection to cloning embryonic stem cells. Moreover, its the only practical approach.

The Rel Right is horrified, because it's a slipperly sloap to saying the morning after pill is A-OK, which it is to 75-80% of us.

Morally it's an interesting question. D-Man brought up the soul. If Man creates something with "life," can it have a soul? I'd think not.

A soul? where do you find it to be measured?

God will decide if he grants a life (of any kind) a soul. Since there is no way to either prove or disprove the existence of such a thing, I think you have to err on the side of caution...Every thinking being, whether "man made" or naturally born probably has a soul. (I do not include computers in the definition of thinking being)

If we state that clones don't, then we can start to think that (name your preference of Minority) don't either.....so its not a sin to kill them.
Now, THERE is a slippery slope!

[defenseman]

I still don't see the "scientific" objection to cloning embryonic stem cells. Moreover, its the only practical approach.

The Rel Right is horrified, because it's a slipperly sloap to saying the morning after pill is A-OK, which it is to 75-80% of us.

Morally it's an interesting question. D-Man brought up the soul. If Man creates something with "life," can it have a soul? I'd think not.

I'm thinking on the last paragraph, with respect to the "soul" it is absolutely a personal thing. There truly is no right or wrong answer, only each person's private or published belief. Tough question to answer and even more difficult to support, because there is no way to support neither for or against the process. None. The hard right will always be against, the far left always for. In the middle is where the answer lies. It's like giving a lecture to a bunch of engineering students, you have to ALWAYS teach to the middle, never the upper crust nor the bottom of the barrel...dman

*I only hope each man or woman who undertakes this research truly understands it's gravity and importance, and the humility needed to conduct it the right way. Stick with the research, don't play god. I sure would like to see the thousands of diseases which plague us wiped off the planet. Hopefully, we won't kill ourselves off due to ideological differences in the meantime. It certianly would be a waste..

[bendog]

I'm thinking on the last paragraph, with respect to the "soul" it is absolutely a personal thing. There truly is no right or wrong answer, only each person's private or published belief. Tough question to answer and even more difficult to support, because there is no way to support neither for or against the process. None. The hard right will always be against, the far left always for. In the middle is where the answer lies. It's like giving a lecture to a bunch of engineering students, you have to ALWAYS teach to the middle, never the upper crust nor the bottom of the barrel...dman

*I only hope each man or woman who undertakes this research truly understands it's gravity and importance, and the humility needed to conduct it the right way. Stick with the research, don't play god. I sure would like to see the thousands of diseases which plague us wiped off the planet. Hopefully, we won't kill ourselves off due to ideological differences in the meantime. It certianly would be a waste..

I doubt we're far apart. My reasoning for an embryonic stem cell that is cloned not having a soul is simply that I don't think mankind can create a soul. I would agree that cloning a human being should be not just illegal, but we should have treaties banning it internationally. Practically, I doubt there's a great threat. I mena, will some guy like KimBongII or Mobutu clone an army to attack his neighbors ... no, he can't feed the army he's got now, and practically speaking its hard enough just to keep people from breeding themselves to distinction to have to worry about a practical threat to peace. There's a reason to think some damn fool will create a "Frankenstein," but I don't think that outweighs the potential benefits.

Moreover, even without embryonic stem cell cloning, I expect some Dman fool will try cloning a human. That's the reason I still think you're falling for a red herring from the religious right, and the real issue is the morning after pill. It's not that they're primarly worried about cloning a human. It's that the morning after pill will be even more widely accepted, and first trimester abortions will be viewed less unfavorably.

Note: Barry ain't answering.

[alkemical]

A soul? where do you find it to be measured?

God will decide if he grants a life (of any kind) a soul. Since there is no way to either prove or disprove the existence of such a thing, I think you have to err on the side of caution...Every thinking being, whether "man made" or naturally born probably has a soul. (I do not include computers in the definition of thinking being)

If we state that clones don't, then we can start to think that (name your preference of Minority) don't either.....so its not a sin to kill them.
Now, THERE is a slippery slope!


The distinction between having a soul, and thinking/being aware are two different things IMO.

Example: HAL9000 was aware and thought. It didn't have emotions so to say. (I think computers can/will get to this point, infact i predict the internet at some point will become aware of itself.)

now creating a 'being' that is an organic entity, i find - a bad thing. Not so much for the "soul" but i believe genetics as is - is fine. The world mutates when it has to, and if a species can't adapt it dies.

that being said, i wouldn't mind growing some new sinus's

[defenseman]

The distinction between having a soul, and thinking/being aware are two different things IMO.

Example: HAL9000 was aware and thought. It didn't have emotions so to say. (I think computers can/will get to this point, infact i predict the internet at some point will become aware of itself.)

now creating a 'being' that is an organic entity, i find - a bad thing. Not so much for the "soul" but i believe genetics as is - is fine. The world mutates when it has to, and if a species can't adapt it dies.

that being said, i wouldn't mind growing some new sinus's

This is scary stuff (in the bold)......IF this were to occur, we all may be very short for this earth I'm afraid. Kinda reminds me of the terminator series with "arnold" if you know what I mean. LOL,....New sinuses? .....dman

[alkemical]

Dman,

When you think about it. Only so many connections would have to be made, till at some point it became somewhat aware of itself. maybe skynet is google. ;)

It sounds silly, but i can promise you that - i'd say in 15years the internet can become selfaware. Esp with things like google