Thread for people who are enjoying the win but still want Plummer benched.

[Taco John]

GREAT WIN! It's awesome to be in first place in the AFC West.

When are we going to bench Plummer?

[Northman]

I just dont understand it. Why is Jake so hot and cold throughout a game? 6 games into the season and he cant stay consistent. Im baffled.

[OrangeShadow]

he looked pretty good especially on the two 85 yard drives. he just lost it in that last quarter,i dont understand it either

[SoCalBronco]

Im very thankful that the Browns defenders don't have hands.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Looked great in the 1st half (minus the pick) and the first drive of the 2nd. The playcalling wasn't great in the 2nd half after the TD by any stretch, but those were some terrible throws he made regardless.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Worst starting QB in the entire league. I will gladly take the upside of a Losman, Walter or Frye over this washed-up hack. Wins or not, he's done. He has officially reached Kerry Collins washed-up status. I'm ready to move on.

[BlaK-Argentina]

Jake looked very good and AWFUL at times today. I don't know what the heck is going on with him but that won't get it done next week.

[Willynowei]

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

[Blueflame]

I'm sounding like a broken record, I know... but Plummer can play better than this. I have no clue whatsoever why he isn't doing it. If he can't get it done, then perhaps he should be carrying the clipboard after all...

[Northman]

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

What if he plays better?

[plummershelper]

Rod's on the radio apologizing to the d for giving up a td. We have so many class guys, but the o didn't let the td get scored. that's all on jake.

[yavoon]

ur theory interest me, I wish to subscribe to ur newsletter.

[Taco John]

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

Then we made a lateral move, and we'll still count on our defense to win games... and our real quarterback gets some valuable experience and another step towards his upside.

[maven]

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

There would be no difference on offense.

Plummer is one tough SOB. Now the only way Cutler will get an opportunity is if Plummer gets injured. I'm not advocating an injury, but I would not be shedding tears if it happens.

[Popps]

It really is baffling.

He just didn't do this crap last year.... and really, I don't think he's looked that off since week 1. I can't figure out if it's the threat of being replaced, a new system... or what. Why was he able to control the offense SO well all last season, and is struggling now?

He had a chance to really help his case and just close out a game today, and just looked out of it.

Well, I don't know what the answer is... as I don't think starting a rookie against Indy/Pitt is the way to go. But, I'll say this... Jake has to prove himself now, and he's picked a very tough spot to do it.

[frerottenextelway]

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

I really, really doubt Cutler would play worse than Plummer has, but if he did we could always go back to Jake for rest of the season.

[-Slap-]

GREAT WIN! It's awesome to be in first place in the AFC West.

When are we going to bench Plummer?

It really is just a matter of time.

[Que]

I've kept my mouth shut until now. Bench him. Bench him now. We can get this sort of production from a rookie - including the picks. Can't believe i'm calling for his head right before the Indy game but I see no reason to keep him as our starter any more. Clearly, the coaches have lost confidence in him. Sooner or later our defense won't be able to pull off the impossible every_single_quarter. That day comes next week.

Bench him now.

/knee jerk

[houghtam]

No, he's not the worst starting Quarterback in the league. That's just ignorant. But he's still pretty bad, though. I'm not one of those who loves Plummer and thinks he's a god in cleats like some of the people here, but like one of us said, I know he can play better than he has.

That said, he could have lost the game for us today. First half he looked okay, and made a couple of throws that were just fantastic. Second half and the fourth quarter especially he looked like Joey Harrington. *shudder*

Sooner or later, if he keeps playing like this, he's going to blow it and we'll lose a game despite our stifling defense. I'm not quite ready to start yelling to put Cutler in, because I just don't think he's ready, and sad as it is, I think he would make more mistakes than Jake.

But the time for him to replace Jake Plummer is getting closer and closer.

[defenseman]

Rod's on the radio apologizing to the d for giving up a td. We have so many class guys, but the o didn't let the td get scored. that's all on jake.

Sad indeed. But, the defense is just as classy. They'll reset the clock and start over. As far a jake guys, I'm thinking Shanahan is at the end of his rope. Inconsistency is a killer. Jake epitomizes it. You must have production, alot more than you are getting. If I'm the coach, you are looking at Manning and the colts. They will score some points boys and girls, don't worry about that. The question is will we score enough to beat them? With Jake at the helm presently, that is an inconsistent proposition. I'd be sitting jake at this point to be quite honest. the colt D is soft, they are far from painfully good. Cutler, gives the O their best chance from where I sit...dman

*Jake is suffering from "playing not to lose" disease. In doing so, he's already lost, but, he just doesn't know it yet....

[riiiiick]

GREAT WIN! It's awesome to be in first place in the AFC West.

When are we going to bench Plummer?

the guy has played the worst 6 game stretch of his career, however no way will he be benched with the team at 5-1. the mane is stuck with him until at least after pitt. if he loses both of those, only then could he even be considered for benching (and probably not even then). that's just plain fact.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Cutler can't play worse.

As an opposing fan, I'm much more scared of a guy with a big arm who makes good decisions and throws accurately.

The only thing that frustrates me about Jake is his ability to escape. That's it.

I can only hope and pray that Jake Plummer is Denver's starting quarterback come Thanksgiving.

[Rohirrim]

Great win! 5 and 1 feels good. What a defense! If not for Jake, they blank the Browns and go to game seven giving up one TD. Awesome record! Elvis is looking good. Brandon gets his first TD. Javon looks better every week.


Change is inevitable. I am willing to state categorically (IMO) Cutler could not possibly be any worse than Jake. Week to week, I'm cheering for the D while waiting for Jake to cough it up on O. If the Brown's D could catch, he would have coughed this one up. He's the weakest link in the chain. Don't look back. Don't think twice. The times they are a'changin'. It's all right, ma, I'm only dyin'.

[defenseman]

Rod's on the radio apologizing to the d for giving up a td. We have so many class guys, but the o didn't let the td get scored. that's all on jake.

Sad indeed. But, the defense is just as classy. They'll reset the clock and start over. As far a jake guys, I'm thinking Shanahan is at the end of his rope. Inconsistency is a killer. Jake epitomizes it. You must have production, alot more than you are getting. If I'm the coach, you are looking at Manning and the colts. They will score some points boys and girls, don't worry about that. The question is will we score enough to beat them? With Jake at the helm presently, that is an inconsistent proposition. I'd be sitting jake at this point to be quite honest. the colt D is soft, they are far from painfully good. Cutler, gives the O their best chance from where I sit...dman

*Jake is suffering from "playing not to lose" disease. In doing so, he's already lost, but, he just doesn't know it yet....

[freak6]

Javon Walker is a beast. He is the ONLY reason Jake is still our starting QB.

[Rulon Velvet Jones]

Look at the other starters around the league and tell me one guy you WOULDN'T take over Plummer.

[BroncoFiend]

GREAT WIN! It's awesome to be in first place in the AFC West.

When are we going to bench Plummer?

I'm with ya all the way now TJ. I'm happy with the win, thrilled with the defense and excited about a 5-1 start. But I am fed up with Plummer, I don't even care about the reason anymore, they guy is just hurting the offense with his boneheaded plays.

No way Cutler is a step down from the way Plummer is playing now, rookie inexperience or not.

[Willynowei]

I'm sounding like a broken record, I know... but Plummer can play better than this. I have no clue whatsoever why he isn't doing it. If he can't get it done, then perhaps he should be carrying the clipboard after all...

Thats my position right now. Jake's had some terrible throws, just bad throws. He's also missed easy reads that he just hasn't done in three years in Denver. Jake's past mistakes have always been that he would force it in a tough situation instead of taking a sack or incompletion. He was also never good at the out route, and the fade...

This season, of the touchdowns he's thrown, they've come on OUT ROUTES AND FADES....

His problem also wasn't just forcing it.... he just can't freakin throw a slant or an in, or a post.... he's just missing throws.

Also those throws he used to lob regularly off the boot last year over the backside end... he's missing those high... why? A lot of high balls overall... I think it might be his throwing motion, the balls are all too high...

But honestly, at this point, yes we are winning, but he's playing quarterback at a level below that which is expected of any starting NFL quarterback. I don't like the idea of starting a rookie... because you can't win playoff games with a rookie, its proven, but at this point, I'm not sure if Jake will EVER get back on track. It might be time to consider the option if we cannot beat Indy at home due to inept offense.

[freak6]

BOTTOMLINE
----------------------------------------------------------------

Jake Plummer starting is costing the Broncos more points with his terrible reads/passes than any other QB in the NFL.
----------------------------------------------------------------

[theAPAOps5]

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

Cutlers worse could not be as bad as Plummer. At least Cutler can throw a spiral. I was all about waiting and argued for it until now. I can't take this chiat any longer. Plummer is a complete moron and can not be trusted to make any decision what-so-ever. He just can't be relied upon to make any educated decision. I almost hope they loose next week and Plummer is at fault so that Shanny can move on to a talented future (now I will take a win as well, just want Plummer gone!).

[Kaylore]

There were some factors in this one like the wind, that didn't help anyone who put the ball in the air (passers, punters, kickers). I agree with SoCal that peole are forgeting how many interceptions were dropped by Brown defenders. I'm ready to move on. If there is anything his poor play and this defense has shown, especially with the emergence of a pass rush, it's that we can win with a rookie.

[Hulamau]

GREAT WIN! It's awesome to be in first place in the AFC West.

When are we going to bench Plummer?

Sign me up ... on both accounts. Its great to win another one, but I'm beyond tired of Plummer's ball and chain around this team!

It's not just the INTs, as every QB throws a few, but it how blatant they are and for his two decent drives he had plenty of mediocre ones and simply makes winning hese games a lot harder than they should be.

We no longer have the luxury of the poor offensive teams of these last several weeks. Even NE was wounded at WR when we played them.

Anyway, there is much to be happy about too like ELVIS, Walker and Brandon Marshall who could be huge for us the rest of the way. We just need to pray Lepsis and Big Money are ready to rumble next week.

[lvbronco]

Message from a long time objective lurker. The only way you see Cutler this year is if Plummer is injured. Bottom line is Shanny makes that decision and we are 4-1 and that's the important stat.

[gunns]

No, he's not the worst starting Quarterback in the league.

You're right. He's the 31st ranked QB. Vince Young, Chris Simms, Walters, Collins and Rothliesberger all have worse QB ratings. Make you feel better?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Plummer will be starting next week. Our D was INCREDIBLE again today!!! Thankfully!!

Our offense is the worst in the league besides the Raiders.


----------------------------------------------
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td class="yspsctnhdln">2006 NFL Regular Season Standings</td> </tr> <tr> <td height="7"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> </tbody></table> </td> <td align="right" nowrap="nowrap"> <select name="year" onchange="this.form.submit()"> <option value="season_2006" selected="selected">2006 Regular Season</option> <option value="preseason_2006">2006 Preseason</option> <option value="season_2005">2005 Regular Season</option> <option value="preseason_2005">2005 Preseason</option> <option value="season_2004">2004 Regular Season</option> <option value="preseason_2004">2004 Preseason</option> <option value="season_2003">2003 Regular Season</option> <option value="preseason_2003">2003 Preseason</option> <option value="season_2002">2002 Regular Season</option> </select> </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr> <td colspan="12" height="5"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="12" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> AFC</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="25%"> East</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">W</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">L</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">T</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Pct</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Home</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Road</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Div</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Conf</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="9%">Streak </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> New England (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nwe)</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>.833</td> <td>136</td> <td>80</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>3-0-0</td> <td>4-0-0</td> <td>5-1-0</td> <td>Won 3 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> NY Jets (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nyj)</td> <td>4</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>.571</td> <td>147</td> <td>173</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>3-3-0</td> <td>Won 2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Buffalo (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/buf)</td> <td>2</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>.286</td> <td>100</td> <td>153</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>Lost 3 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Miami (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/mia)</td> <td>1</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>.143</td> <td>102</td> <td>145</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>0-4-0</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>1-5-0</td> <td>Lost 4 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="12" height="5"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="25%"> North</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">W</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">L</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">T</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Pct</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Home</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Road</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Div</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Conf</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="9%">Streak </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Cincinnati (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/cin)</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>128</td> <td>113</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-0-0</td> <td>3-1-0</td> <td>Won 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Baltimore (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/bal)</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>110</td> <td>69</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>1-0-0</td> <td>3-1-0</td> <td>Lost 2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Pittsburgh (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/pit)</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>.333</td> <td>144</td> <td>125</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>0-1-0</td> <td>2-3-0</td> <td>Lost 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Cleveland (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/cle)</td> <td>1</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>.167</td> <td>88</td> <td>126</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>0-2-0</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>Lost 2 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="12" height="5"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="25%"> South</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">W</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">L</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">T</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Pct</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Home</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Road</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Div</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Conf</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="9%">Streak </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Indianapolis (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/ind)</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1.000</td> <td>171</td> <td>122</td> <td>4-0-0</td> <td>2-0-0</td> <td>3-0-0</td> <td>4-0-0</td> <td>Won 6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Jacksonville (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/jac)</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>.500</td> <td>125</td> <td>101</td> <td>3-0-0</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>0-2-0</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>Lost 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Houston (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/hou)</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>.333</td> <td>99</td> <td>154</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>0-2-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>Won 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Tennessee (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/ten)</td> <td>1</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>.167</td> <td>85</td> <td>157</td> <td>0-2-0</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>0-1-0</td> <td>0-4-0</td> <td>Won 1 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="12" height="5"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="25%"> West</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">W</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">L</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">T</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Pct</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Home</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Road</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Div</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Conf</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="9%">Streak </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Denver (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/den)</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>.833</td> <td>79</td> <td>44</td> <td>3-0-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-0-0</td> <td>5-0-0</td> <td>Won 5 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> San Diego (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sdg)</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>178</td> <td>85</td> <td>2-0-0</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>3-2-0</td> <td>Lost 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Kansas City (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/kan)</td> <td>3</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>.500</td> <td>117</td> <td>124</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>Won 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Oakland (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/oak)</td> <td>1</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>.167</td> <td>72</td> <td>135</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>0-2-0</td> <td>0-4-0</td> <td>Won 1 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="12" height="5"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="12" height="18"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="yspsctbg"> <td colspan="12" class="ysptblhdr" height="18"> NFC</td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="25%"> East</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">W</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">L</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">T</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Pct</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Home</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Road</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Div</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Conf</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="9%">Streak </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> NY Giants (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nyg)</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.600</td> <td>127</td> <td>109</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-0-0</td> <td>3-1-0</td> <td>Won 2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Dallas (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/dal)</td> <td>3</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.600</td> <td>147</td> <td>92</td> <td>2-0-0</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>Won 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Philadelphia (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/phi)</td> <td>4</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>.571</td> <td>200</td> <td>147</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>3-3-0</td> <td>Lost 2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Washington (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/was)</td> <td>2</td> <td>5</td> <td>0</td> <td>.286</td> <td>140</td> <td>171</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>0-2-0</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>Lost 3 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="12" height="5"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="25%"> North</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">W</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">L</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">T</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Pct</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Home</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Road</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Div</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Conf</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="9%">Streak </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Chicago (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/chi)</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>0</td> <td>1.000</td> <td>180</td> <td>59</td> <td>3-0-0</td> <td>3-0-0</td> <td>3-0-0</td> <td>5-0-0</td> <td>Won 6 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Minnesota (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/min)</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>120</td> <td>95</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>4-1-0</td> <td>Won 2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Green Bay (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/gnb)</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>.333</td> <td>121</td> <td>162</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>1-4-0</td> <td>Won 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Detroit (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/det)</td> <td>1</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>.143</td> <td>132</td> <td>189</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>0-4-0</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>0-5-0</td> <td>Lost 1 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="12" height="5"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="25%"> South</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">W</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">L</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">T</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Pct</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Home</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Road</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Div</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Conf</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="9%">Streak </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> New Orleans (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/nor)</td> <td>5</td> <td>1</td> <td>0</td> <td>.833</td> <td>145</td> <td>110</td> <td>3-0-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>4-1-0</td> <td>Won 2 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Atlanta (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/atl)</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>124</td> <td>107</td> <td>3-1-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>3-2-0</td> <td>Won 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Carolina (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/car)</td> <td>4</td> <td>3</td> <td>0</td> <td>.571</td> <td>123</td> <td>128</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>Lost 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Tampa Bay (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/tam)</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>.333</td> <td>85</td> <td>125</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>0-2-0</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>Won 2 </td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="12" height="5"><spacer type="block" height="1" width="1"></td> </tr> <tr class="ysptblthbody1" align="right"> <td class="yspdetailttl" align="left" height="18" width="25%"> West</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">W</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">L</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="4%">T</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">Pct</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PF</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="6%">PA</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Home</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Road</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Div</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="7%">Conf</td> <td class="yspdetailttl" width="9%">Streak </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> Seattle (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sea)</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>121</td> <td>142</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-0-0</td> <td>4-2-0</td> <td>Lost 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> St. Louis (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/stl)</td> <td>4</td> <td>2</td> <td>0</td> <td>.667</td> <td>139</td> <td>128</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>2-1-0</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>3-2-0</td> <td>Lost 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow1" align="right"> <td align="left"> San Francisco (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/sfo)</td> <td>2</td> <td>4</td> <td>0</td> <td>.333</td> <td>124</td> <td>194</td> <td>2-2-0</td> <td>0-2-0</td> <td>1-1-0</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>Lost 1 </td> </tr> <tr class="ysprow2" align="right"> <td align="left"> Arizona (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/ari)</td> <td>1</td> <td>6</td> <td>0</td> <td>.143</td> <td>120</td> <td>165</td> <td>1-3-0</td> <td>0-3-0</td> <td>1-2-0</td> <td>1-4-0</td> <td>Lost 6 </td></tr></tbody></table>

[lvbronco]

Make that 5-1

[in awe]

He embarrasses our organization.

[Bronco Bob]

Broncos are a history masking team. Probably the only team to be 5 -1,
sole posession of 1st place in their division, winner of 5 in a row,
ranked in the top 5 of all sportswriters polls.

And the fans are calling for benching a veteran starting QB for an unproven rookie. Gotta love those Denver fans.

[theAPAOps5]

Message from a long time objective lurker. The only way you see Cutler this year is if Plummer is injured. Bottom line is Shanny makes that decision and we are 4-1 and that's the important stat.

Actually "lurker" they are 5-1 and it has been rumored that Cutler could have played as early today and that if Plummer loses in the next 2 weeks it shows he can't win in January as well. So in reality the only way Plummer plays on is if he breaks out in the next two weeks.

[fontaine]

Yeah the weather conditions weren't great for passing the ball but the Browns were missing their best CB in Baxter and dropped a couple of ints but even then Jake managed to throw up two ints, and look like he was drunk out there on the field.

I don't want Cutler to start against Indy/Pitt because it's not right to throw in a rookie against two of the best teams in the NFL right now, but on the other hand Jake has turned the ball over EIGHT FREAKIN' TIMES against those two teams the last time he played them.

[theAPAOps5]

Broncos are a history masking team. Probably the only team to be 5 -1,
sole posession of 1st place in their division, winner of 5 in a row,
ranked in the top 5 of all sportswriters polls.

And the fans are calling for benching a veteran starting QB for an unproven rookie. Gotta love those Denver fans.

Yeah you lost all credibility when you actually listed as a stat the writers polls! Then you went down the crapper.

Stay on that Plummer bandwagon and call Denver fans stupid. But just be ready to be called out when Denver loses by 3 to an Indy, SD, heck even Pitt. Elite teams will eat up Plummer and his offence. Some people can see the big picture and Plummer is killing that picture.

[Cito Pelon]

This over-reliance on the slants is getting ridiculous. Seems to me that is the worst pass Jake throws. It's like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, but for some reason the O staff thinks that is a safe pass. That's damn ridiculous.

[freak6]

Our defense has given up 43 points this season.

Jake's idiotic INTs have been directly responsible for 13 of those.

Jake's idiotic INTs have been directly responsible for our only loss.

The only way we can lose is if Jake kills our chances.

Just like he did in the AFC Game, handing the Steelers a 17 point lead, when it should've been a 2 possesion game at worse.

[elsid13]

Look at the other starters around the league and tell me one guy you WOULDN'T take over Plummer.

Mark Brunell. Trust me, Plummer looks like Payton compared to him.

[freak6]

Oops, they actually cost us 16 points checking the Rams game, and took at least 3 off. I didn't add those into the total amount of points he has cost us because you never know what happens on the Broncos next play if Jake doesn't throw a terrible pass over Devoe to Chavous.

16 out of 43.

[watermock]

Mock and Beezlebub's opinion.

http://notadiary.typepad.com/mysticworlds/images/hangingpost.jpg

I think that sums up me and kitty cat's position. Every time you think Jake is going to break out of his funk he throws another duck into coverage. He easily could of thrown 5 picks.

He had 5-7 decent throws and the rest of the 40 something were crap. Walker stole some poorly thrown balls.

I have made my opinion clear and it hasn't changed. Unless we can rattle Manning we are going to be eaten alive.

This is getting so fvckin' old.

Cool song by Mellencamp to open the Baseball game.

Win next sunday we grab home field with many tiebreakers and only have to split with SD.

I guess we get Jake till a 5 game losing streak or something.

I just keep saying every day Jay digests the book and gets reps.

Why can't Jake find Scheff? Cutler could.

Great National Anthem tonight.

[Rohirrim]

Broncos are a history masking team. Probably the only team to be 5 -1,
sole posession of 1st place in their division, winner of 5 in a row,
ranked in the top 5 of all sportswriters polls.

And the fans are calling for benching a veteran starting QB for an unproven rookie. Gotta love those Denver fans.

Obviously, you're not watching the games. The goal is not to win a bunch of games. The goal is to win one game: The Super Bowl. Jake will never do that. Time to give somebody a shot who can.

[DarkHorse30]

Plummer is earning his disrespect. He's got a good running game, a good pair of WRs, a decent O-line.....so what gives?

[-Slap-]

The worst thing is Cutler could have been cutting his teeth against the weakest part of our schedule and gaining valuable experience the last few weeks. Instead Jay will have to come in off the bench against playoff contenders when Plummer makes it utterly impossible for Shanahan to stick with him.

[elsid13]

Was Scheffer active today?

BTW Randy Cross is a complete moran.

[Bronco Bob]

Actually "lurker" they are 5-1 and it has been rumored that Cutler could have played as early today and that if Plummer loses in the next 2 weeks it shows he can't win in January as well. So in reality the only way Plummer plays on is if he breaks out in the next two weeks.

Whose rumoring it? The sports writers? There goes your credibility.

:thumbsup:

[baja]

It's simple! Stay with Plummer and we lose against the Colts. Start Jay there is nothing to lose.

[-Slap-]

You know what's funny? Jake has steadily eroded his base of support with each sub-par performance. People who were pleading for patience a couple weeks ago are ready to pelt his porch with garbage and rotten fruit today.

Not that I blame them. We all have different breaking points. We all have different capacities for self deception.

[No1BroncoFan]

I really, really doubt Cutler would play worse than Plummer has, but if he did we could always go back to Jake for rest of the season.
No, we couldn't just go back to Plummer. Benching Jake in favor of the rookie is a one way street.

I have not been impressed by Jake's play this season, but the rook is not the answer. Our offensive line isn't good enough in pass protection to stop the all out bull rush they'd face week in and week out if Cutler was back there.

Ben

[Garcia Bronco]

Broncos are a history masking team. Probably the only team to be 5 -1,
sole posession of 1st place in their division, winner of 5 in a row,
ranked in the top 5 of all sportswriters polls.

And the fans are calling for benching a veteran starting QB for an unproven rookie. Gotta love those Denver fans.

It makes me ashamed... Cutler will get his chance...the instant oatmeal generation just want it now...and why...because we don't win by 40. Put Cutler is...it's not going to make a difference. While he may have more zip on the ball...he'll see nothing but eight man fronts. What's killing us is the running game not being what it was...that's why the boots rarely work and it's why Jake is having problems....he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

[freak6]

You know what's funny?

We all have different capacities for self deception.

I always marvel at people's failure to objectively look at the NFL from season to season. Week one was just a continuation of the AFC CG, and it won't stop.

Other famous morons have relied upon "Stay the Course", but at least we are WINNING!!!

[-Slap-]

It makes me ashamed... Cutler will get his chance...the instant oatmeal generation just want it now...and why...because we don't win by 40. Put Cutler is...it's not going to make a difference. While he may have more zip on the ball...he'll see nothing but eight man fronts. What's killing us is the running game not being what it was...that's why the boots rarely work and it's why Jake is having problems....he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=48172&highlight=Garcia

[freak6]

Put Cutler is...it's not going to make a difference. While he may have more zip on the ball...he'll see nothing but eight man fronts.

You know this because you have a crystal ball, or you are just such an expert on the NFL and in particular the Broncos that you state the following:

What's killing us is the running game not being what it was...that's why the boots rarely work and it's why Jake is having problems....he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

Seriously, this is too easy. I really feel like destroying stupid takes like this. I usually go off and completely humilliate the individual poster for being so ignorant, but I'm going to let this one slide as an example of how foolish and desperate you Plummer homers have gotten.

Between you, BMF, and that clown Popps I don't even know why I bother reading you Plummer homers ignorance.

[Cito Pelon]

I saw the Broncos have had the worst starting position in the NFL prior to this game. People forget how hard it is to continually drive out of a hole, and still put points up. Jake and the guys have done a good job overcoming that.

[watermock]

Just for your information, BOB...we have been 5-1 before and fell on our collective faces.

I have to agree with RO...it's about ONE GAME and WINNING it.

We get to listen to apologists all week saying we are 5-1.

WE ARE 5-1 BECAUSE OUR DEFENSE IS SHUT DOWN.

[SprintRightOption]

First, another smackdown performance by the defense, who deserved the shutout if Jake doesn't give Cleveland first down at the 18.

What was his "realistic" interception total today? There were at least 2 that clanged right off the hands of a defender in the 4th quarter: the left seam pass to Rod that the diving DB got 2 hands on put couldn't pull in, and the 3rd down pass to Javon short right that looked from the live camera like a pick because it hit hit squarely in the chest then bounced down to the ground then into his hands. I think there was at least one more, so that would be 2, but I don't think the first real pick was that much Jake's fault because it hit kircus then bounced up and was caught on the dive by Baxter. What other dropped picks am I missing?

[Garcia Bronco]

Look at the other starters around the league and tell me one guy you WOULDN'T take over Plummer.

These are guys that have started that I wouldn't take over Plummer

Walters
Kitna
McNair
Gradowski
Bledsoe
Huard
Warner
Vick
Harrington
Culpepper
Brooks

[DarkHorse30]

The biggest problem with Jake is that he has developed happy feet. Nearly every throw he's dancing around in the pocket waiting for somebody to be WIDE open. That's fine if you're Jay Cutler and this is your first year......but Plummer is supposed to know the system inside and out. Then, when he finally decides to loft one out there, the timing is off and the WR rarely can make a move for RAC. Maybe Jake just can't read defenses or something, but he often looks completely lost.

I seriously doubt Cutler would look MORE lost than Plummer does. Plus, Shanahan would be forced into running more.....which is what he should be doing in the first place. Plus, when Jay sees someone getting open, he can probably gun it in there instead of waiting for the guy to get MORE open, or something.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

LOL

Well sh*t, lets get someone in there that CAN play from the pocket and SEE the whole field. Ha!

[Northman]

Message from a long time objective lurker. The only way you see Cutler this year is if Plummer is injured. Bottom line is Shanny makes that decision and we are 4-1 and that's the important stat.



You mean 5-1.

[Hulamau]

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

Define "what if he plays poorly" Willy? You mean like throwing a 48% completion average like today, or how about a total of only 4 TDs and 7 INTs over 6 games? Throwing balls right to defenders repeatedly? Thank God the Browns DBs have stone hands or we could have lost this one!

Remember these guys dont play in a vaccum but as a team, and though Cutler will make a number of rookie mistakes when he gets in, there is little chance he stinks it up any worse than Plummer with this cast and crew around him.

Shanny can even ease him in and spoon feed him this same conservative pablum offense he's got Jake leashed to as he gets up to speed.

For every INT Jay-Cee throws he'll also drive the field for a TD as well as light a spark in this offense that it sorely deserves. I know the defense will appreciate having and offense that can move the ball consistently, even if they turn it over at times

Cutler will also get Scheffler, Marshall and Kircus much more involved making game planning against us a nightmare for opposing DCs.

Right now the game plan for other teams is to slow Tatum, Walker and keep Jake in the pocket. Luckily our defense has made most of those game plans moot at this point, but its not likely to last.

So what if Cutler struggles too ... at least he'll be improving week in and week out and not whistling past the grave yard waiting for the roof to cave in as we are with Plummer at the helm. Jake is NEVER going to get much better, even if he has a decent game occasionally.

Sticking with him is just promising a heartbreak sooner or later this year.

I said three weeks ago that Jake had three weeks to bust out, turn it around and show he can truly lead this offense to playoff calibre play. He has failed to do so, even though we are winning thanks to the defense. Furthermore, he's had MORE than enough chances at this point to satisfy any but the terminally 'snake bit' homer!

I want to win in the worst way this year, but I'm now convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that Cutler gives us the best chance from here on out, and even if we don't make it all the way, which is a crap shoot in any event, at least we'll be that much closer to becoming a complete team and ready to win it all at the soonest possible date!

[No1BroncoFan]

You know this because you have a crystal ball, or you are just such an expert on the NFL and in particular the Broncos that you state the following:

Seriously, this is too easy. I really feel like destroying stupid takes like this. I usually go off and completely humilliate the individual poster for being so ignorant, but I'm going to let this one slide as an example of how foolish and desperate you Plummer homers have gotten.

Between you, BMF, and that clown Popps I don't even know why I bother reading you Plummer homers ignorance.
Why is it that the Plummer debate always has to devolve to hostile name-calling bullsh*t? It comes from both side, so I'm not singling out Freak or any other Maner. Just curious. I've got my opinion of why we should stay with Plummer (and believe me, it's not his play) while others have their opinions of why we should start Cutler. The fact that we can't respect each other (and the mods don't seem to care) has taken a lot from the site.

Ben

[bpc]

I've held firm in support of Plummer...

I agree totally with Slap. We are stuck now. I think he could do very well against Indy but any mistake will be magnified now. We are unfortunately better off going with Jake. As for Pittsburgh... that would be a tough task for anybody let alone a fresh rookie who has no starts.

We are looking at Oakland being his first realistic chance to start now.

COME ON DEFENSE, you have to get us through the next two weeks.

[hades]

What happens when the D has an off game, and the O can't bail them out?

[Garcia Bronco]

You know this because you have a crystal ball, or you are just such an expert on the NFL and in particular the Broncos that you state the following:



Seriously, this is too easy. I really feel like destroying stupid takes like this. I usually go off and completely humilliate the individual poster for being so ignorant, but I'm going to let this one slide as an example of how foolish and desperate you Plummer homers have gotten.

Between you, BMF, and that clown Popps I don't even know why I bother reading you Plummer homers ignorance.

It's what rookie QB's see in the NFL...8 man fronts. Let what slide? Bring it. You think are running game is now what it was last year...or four years ago...or when John Elway was here with Davis. Get a grip. You are blinded by your hatred which is why you changed you user name....who are you going to be next week? We aren't taking over games with our running game like in the past

[DrFate]

I've defended Plummer as much as anybody (mainly because he took too much abuse for playoff losses then the defense didn't show up). That said, Plummer has been miserable nearly all year. It is clear to most that the Broncos are running what amounts to a high-school passing game (one read and a dump off - and sometimes Plummer throws to that one read, covered or not). I can't see how Cutler playing could possibly result in fewer points or more turnovers. The Brownies should have had 4 INTs today, if they could catch.

Plenty of rookies play their first year. We could run a run-first, conservative 'protect Cutler' offense - and still get more production than we have to date. I'm not too eager to see next week.

[Cito Pelon]

You know what's funny? Jake has steadily eroded his base of support with each sub-par performance. People who were pleading for patience a couple weeks ago are ready to pelt his porch with garbage and rotten fruit today.

Not that I blame them. We all have different breaking points. We all have different capacities for self deception.

Real men measure themselves by their capacity for self-deception. And it isn't "funny". It's a daily battle that few can overcome. I'm proud to say I'm a survivor.

Ace.

[That One Guy]

Just incase anyone was wondering, I went and looked at some stuff.

First, someone mentioned the weather as the reason for tonights issues. Plummer went 20/41 - 48% passing tonight and average completions were 10.5 yds. Frye on the other hand went 19/33 - 57% and averaged 7.8 yds per completion. So Frye averaged 9% better completion percentage for making passes 5 feet shorter. Given the defenses they were facing, I'd hardly say the conditions were holding QBs back out there.

Someone else said the running game wasn't producing this year as it had in the past. Well, our starter last year, MA, averaged 4.2 yds per carry while Tater averaged 5.3 yds. Since MA had substantially more carries than Tater, that means our average was somewhere below 4.7 ypc. This year, so far, Tater is averaging 4.7 yds per carry despite teams stacking against the run and forcing Jake to beat them. When you account for the focus of opposing D's being on the run as well as the successful ground game, that just wont fly as the scape goat.

And just for the sake of conversations, can anyone tell me the last time Jake had a WR that could do things that Javon has done so far this year. Javon alone has carried Jake and sometimes the whole team on his back. Rod is the consistent one but Jake didn't have the players when he was doing well that he has now, there's no reason for Jake to be playing as he is.

To me, this about dispells all the excuses that I've seen. Now, everyone, let's just enjoy the wins of the past as these next few weeks could be really painful.

[meangene]

I was happy we won today but there is NO WAY we beat either Indy or Pittsburgh with Jake at QB. Not going to happen. Then, we may see Cutler. At 5-3 the playoffs are still very much in sight. Stay with Jake at that point and there is NO WAY we make the playoffs.

People forget that Cutler started the last preseason game against Arizona's first team defense and played great football with a large number of second stingers around him. Cutler was the SEC player of the year on a horrible Vanderbilt team. It was basically him and a bunch of guys. He is not going to blink at the pressure of an 8 man front and has the arm to make teams pay. The way I see it just being able to open up the playbook because Cutler has the arm to make all the throws gives him a huge advantage. You don't think teams are crowding the line of scrimmage now and jumping the short routes because of Jake's limitations? At least Cutler makes teams defend the whole field. And, I'd rather start him at home against Indy's defense than on the road at Pitt. Too bad we'll not see him start either though he may finish one or both.

[BroncoSoja]

I just dont understand it. Why is Jake so hot and cold throughout a game? 6 games into the season and he cant stay consistent. Im baffled.

Im not 'baffled.. If you go back to November 13, 2005 Plummer has been playing bad every since that point and on. Thats why I laugh at people that try to say its the pressure of Culter or its all the new people on the Offense..That's also the reason why I laugh at people that say he had a Probowl year last year. Wrong he had a Probowl half season, the other half stunk it up. Which is why he was only a alternate.

Bottom line is while we might keep winning with him at QB(what else is new), we will not win when it counts with him as QB(what else is new).

[Garcia Bronco]

Someone else said the running game wasn't producing this year as it had in the past. Well, our starter last year, MA, averaged 4.2 yds per carry while Tater averaged 5.3 yds. Since MA had substantially more carries than Tater, that means our average was somewhere below 4.7 ypc. This year, so far, Tater is averaging 4.7 yds per carry despite teams stacking against the run and forcing Jake to beat them. When you account for the focus of opposing D's being on the run as well as the successful ground game, that just wont fly as the scape goat.



But...you have to look at the big play in the running game....how many runs of 15-20 or longer.

another thing to factor in is that we are 28th in starting field positon as well.


Look...I don't care who is the QB....I just want the laundry to win the game, and right now...I think Plummer gives us the better chance in the short term, and we are going to beat the Colts...and maybe not the Steelers because we areplaying in their house. We own the Colts at home

[Cito Pelon]

Define "what if he plays poorly" Willy? You mean like throwing a 48% completion average like today, or how about a total of only 4 TDs and 7 INTs over 6 games? Throwing balls right to defenders repeatedly? Thank God the Browns DBs have stone hands or we could have lost this one!

Remember these guys dont play in a vaccum but as a team, and though Cutler will make a number of rookie mistakes when he gets in, there is little chance he stinks it up any worse than Plummer with this cast and crew around him.

Shanny can even ease him in and spoon feeding him this same conservative pablum offense he's got Jake leashed to as he gets up to speed.

For every INT Jay-Cee throws he'll also drive the field for a TD as well as put light a spark in this offense that it sorely deserves. I know the defense will appreciate having and offense that can move the ball consistently, even if they turn it over at times

Cutler will also get Scheffler, Marshall and Kircus much more involved making game planning against us a nightmare for opposing DCs.

Right now the game plan for other teams is to slow Tatum, Walker and keep Jake in the pocket. Luckily our defense has made most of those game plans moot at this point, but its not likely to last.

So what if Cutler struggles too ... at least he'll be improving week in and week out and not whistling past the grave yard waiting for the roof to cave in as we are with Plummer at the helm. Jake is NEVER going to get much better, even if he has a decent game occasionally.

Sticking with him is just promising a heartbreak sooner or later this year.

I said three weeks ago that Jake had three weeks to bust out, turn it around and show he can truly lead this offense to playoff calibre play. He has failed to do so, even though we are winning thanks to the defense. Furthermore, he's had MORE than enough chances at this point to satisfy any but the terminally 'snake bit' homer!

I want to win in the worst way this year, but I'm now convinced beyond any shadow of a doubt that Cutler gives us the best chance from here on out, and even if we don't make it all the way, which is a crap shoot in any event, at least we'll be that much closer to becoming a complete team and ready to win it all at the soonest possible date!

A well-crafted post, but I'm still not buying it. It's goofy, goofy, goofy to be hooting for Jay. I'd think you and others would at some point realize how foolish you make yourselves. Jay will not be playing any time soon. When will that finally sink in? Jake keeps driving the team on long scoring drives, he's playing pretty well, the O staff pretty much just wants to see Jake and everybody else execute a little better, they have a known commodity, the team is 5-1 and in first place. When is it finally going to sink in that Jay is not going to play?

[Jetmeck]

It really is baffling.

He just didn't do this crap last year.... and really, I don't think he's looked that off since week 1. I can't figure out if it's the threat of being replaced, a new system... or what. Why was he able to control the offense SO well all last season, and is struggling now?

He had a chance to really help his case and just close out a game today, and just looked out of it.

Well, I don't know what the answer is... as I don't think starting a rookie against Indy/Pitt is the way to go. But, I'll say this... Jake has to prove himself now, and he's picked a very tough spot to do it.

If you look at his numbers tell me they don't resemble something a rookie would have. Tell me about rooks making bad throws then watch Jake.

Leinart and Young are playing as well as Plummer is in his 10th season and they ARE rooks but don't have as good a team around them. Cutler WOULD have a much better team around him than the aforementioned rooks and could win for us know.

Plummer is going to implode against a great playoff type team and we all know it. Look what he is doing against bad teams.

[dbfan4life]

Bench Jake against Indy. That way we can start a thread on why even though we lost, Cutler is still the man. I can't defend Jake's play but I feel 100% that starting Cutler against a team with one of the leagues premier pass rushers is not a smart thing to do.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

A well-crafted post, but I'm still not buying it. It's goofy, goofy, goofy to be hooting for Jay. I'd think you and others would at some point realize how foolish you make yourselves. Jay will not be playing any time soon. When will that finally sink in? Jake keeps driving the team on long scoring drives, he's playing pretty well, the O staff pretty much just wants to see Jake and everybody else execute a little better, they have a known commodity, the team is 5-1 and in first place. When is it finally going to sink in that Jay is not going to play?
LOL

If Plummer plays this way next week he will be booed off the field, is that sinking in?

[That One Guy]

But...you have to look at the big play in the running game....how many runs of 15-20 or longer.

another thing to factor in is that we are 28th in starting field positon as well.


Look...I don't care who is the QB....I just want the laundry to win the game, and right now...I think Plummer gives us the better chance in the short term, and we are going to beat the Colts...and maybe not the Steelers because we areplaying in their house. We own the Colts at home

I completely agree. The starting field position can kick you in the jimmy but didn't we start off twice in the first quarter at or beyond the 50 just to come away empty?

And I 100,000% agree with you on not caring who the QB is. I think everyone else is in that same boat. Last year, there were those saying Tater needed to get more carries, Dayne needed to get more carries, stuff like that. There will always be people crying the what if's about the backups. Someone the other day was spouting moving Marshall above Rod, you'll always have those people but this isn't one of those cases. I venture to say that 80% of the people here would be satisified with Jake's sub-50% completion percentage had he not thrown the one bad pick and the many that should've been picks. You can also see this in the number of people converting from the protect Jake to the F-k Jake camps. He's not only crapping on drives and holding back the O occasionally, he's setting us up for failure and we're just waiting for someone to sieze the opportunity. But yes, as you said, I couldn't care less who the QB is in name, I just want someone who wont hold us back from showing everyone who we are and what we can accomplish.

[Garcia Bronco]

What about McNabb....he threw 3 int's today...two TD's to the other team..still accounted for 33 plus points in FF........The Eagles lost. Awesome. Would you rather have that?

[Circle Orange]

GREAT WIN! It's awesome to be in first place in the AFC West.

When are we going to bench Plummer?

Everything, anything, and everyone must go. Even the stadium. Scorched earth is best. :crazy: Burn it all down and start from scratch! I think we should protest by posting blank threads until Jake is gone. Something simple, like orange text on an orange background. :~ohyah!:

You know its bad when commentators are agitating for a quarterback switch.

[Garcia Bronco]

I completely agree. The starting field position can kick you in the jimmy but didn't we start off twice in the first quarter at or beyond the 50 just to come away empty?

And I 100,000% agree with you on not caring who the QB is. I think everyone else is in that same boat. Last year, there were those saying Tater needed to get more carries, Dayne needed to get more carries, stuff like that. There will always be people crying the what if's about the backups. Someone the other day was spouting moving Marshall above Rod, you'll always have those people but this isn't one of those cases. I venture to say that 80% of the people here would be satisified with Jake's sub-50% completion percentage had he not thrown the one bad pick and the many that should've been picks. You can also see this in the number of people converting from the protect Jake to the F-k Jake camps. He's not only crapping on drives and holding back the O occasionally, he's setting us up for failure and we're just waiting for someone to sieze the opportunity. But yes, as you said, I couldn't care less who the QB is in name, I just want someone who wont hold us back from showing everyone who we are and what we can accomplish.



I think we are showing everyone who we are and what we can accomplish...we are 5-1...ahead in our divison. The Eagles...have much better offense...they are with a game of .500 nad have lost two straight games...McNabb is having a great statistical season. Doesn't matter though...they are lsoing

[telluride]

I think Jake lost the locker room today. You know the defense wanted to make history, and Jake screwed that up. The D has to be tired of dragging this team's ass out of the messes that Jake consistently creates.

Just watch this week unfold. Jake has lost the team.

[Rashomon]

There is just no way you can replace the starting QB on a team that has won 5 straight games, no matter how poorly he is playing. Some other posters have mentioned it, and I agree that the realistic scenario is if Plummer and the offense play poorly the next two games, and the Broncos lose those games, Cutler could be starting at Oakland.
ESPN is reporting that as a likely scenario.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2634996

At that point, Shanahan would have stuck with Plummer thru half the season. If Cutler is showing everyone enough in practice to make them feel comfortable, then he could be forced to move in a different direction to try to spark the offense. I don't think anyone realistically thinks that the Broncos will make a deep playoff run averaging less than 14 ppg.

[elsid13]

I realized if Denver benches Plummer, there goes his trade value. But if we keep playing him, his trade value takes big hit, too. Damned either way.

[Garcia Bronco]

If you look at his numbers tell me they don't resemble something a rookie would have. Tell me about rooks making bad throws then watch Jake.

Leinart and Young are playing as well as Plummer is in his 10th season and they ARE rooks but don't have as good a team around them. Cutler WOULD have a much better team around him than the aforementioned rooks and could win for us know.

Plummer is going to implode against a great playoff type team and we all know it. Look what he is doing against bad teams.

Leinhart just lost his 3rd straight game and Vince Young is not playing better than Jake Plummer...they are actually about the same statistically speaking. If we had records like Titans and Cards...I have the wheel on the bench bus...but we're 5-1

[dbfan4life]

Just looking at the game highlights, Jake had an up and down game. Really, more down than up. What can we do? I am certain that we will not bench Jake no matter how much this board bitches and whines. So the question is not when do we bench Jake but when does that Jake of last year emerge? Your guess is as good as mine. No matter what, though, I root for this team with all I have! **** all this talk of Plummer being benched and **** all those who keep asking for Jake to be benched.

[Jetmeck]

What about McNabb....he threw 3 int's today...two TD's to the other team..still accounted for 33 plus points in FF........The Eagles lost. Awesome. Would you rather have that?


You are not seriously comparing Plummer to what is right now the best QB in the leaque, are you ? McNabb has a bad game once in awhile, with consistent good to great games. Plummer is consistently bad with a couple of DECENT throws here and there.

[Jetmeck]

Leinhart just lost his 3rd straight game and Vince Young is not playing better than Jake Plummer...they are actually about the same statistically speaking. If we had records like Titans and Cards...I have the wheel on the bench bus...but we're 5-1


What did I say ? Read it again, LEINART and Young play on bad teams. Cutler would have a very good team around him and could win now. Plummer is being propped up by our team, he is holding us back and you know it.

The two rooks on bad teams could outplay Jake any day.
Give a decent qb we would be super bowl material.

[Hulamau]

I don't expect Cutler will start against Indy or the Steelers either (unless JAke throws 3 or 4 picks next week). Its not politically expedient for Shanny to do so quite yet.

But I also bet the well-connected 'Source' that Mort got the info from that Shanny is considering Cutler if JAke cant win against Indy and/or the Steelers is right as well!

It is likely all part of Shanny's carefully considered method of gradually plowing the field of expectations while also turning the heat up on Jake to try to get him to play better. He's letting Cutler know too to get ready after week 8 (that's been my target all along as well when Jay-Cee will likely be up to speed enough to step in and play at a decent level).

Of course, Shanny has been praying Plummer could Carpe Diem this whole thing and take the bull by the horns, but he is also signaling his patience has limits as well!

Witnessing this terrible offensive first half of this season in the context of the past few years and indeed Jake's whole career, Plummer simply has no more money left in the 'bank of second chances', and anyone that thinks Plummer could possibly lead us to the promiseland playing like this has got to be delusional.

Going to Cutler after the Steelers game guarantees us nothing this year, other than a greatly excellerated maturation period and a better chance in 2007 while still giving us at least as much chance to win it all now as we've got with Jake (slim as that might be).

[That One Guy]

Leinhart just lost his 3rd straight game and Vince Young is not playing better than Jake Plummer...they are actually about the same statistically speaking. If we had records like Titans and Cards...I have the wheel on the bench bus...but we're 5-1

Unfortunately, if things don't start rolling we could weasle our way to a 12 or 13 win season but this wont fly when the big dogs came to play in December and January. While our D has been good, our D has also been lucky (See the Lamont Jordan fumble or any of Champs RZ INTs) and we can't count on that. Without some lucky breaks, we'd be doing well but we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are now with points allowed and possibly even wins. Ultimately, I'd take a few games lost to Cutler errors if he can make us a stronger push when the time comes. Sneaking our with through the season with this 17 point ceiling we have isn't gonna fly when it comes time for trophies and, whether it be with 9 or 15 wins, the playoffs and then those rings are all I'm really concerned with.

[Rohirrim]

The other thing no one has mentioned, Jake killed the momentum for the entire team. Champ picked it off in the EZ. The Broncos on the sidelines were starting to loosen up. The game tension was broken. The Browns were starting to hang their heads. The D made the big play. The shut out was intact. All the O had to do was orchestrate one of those four to six minute drives and the game is over. Two plays later, Jake tosses the ball directly into the stomach of the opposition. Bailey barely has time to celebrate his TO before he has to run back onto the field. The Browns get fired up. The D has to stop the party and get back on the field to clean up after Jake - again. Talk about a buzz killer. Frye does his job and the Browns score. The scoreless streak is dead. The Browns are back in it. A game that was in the bag was now squirting all over the field again. Not only that. Now Jake starts really spraying it. What saves the Broncos? The Browns D have lousy hands.

Put that banner across the paper tomorrow: Browns Bad Hands Give Broncos Victory.

Bottom line. Jake took a game that was in the bag and turned it into a nailbiter. Shanahan doesn't need this crap. He's getting too old for this crap.

[Jetmeck]

I don't expect Cutler will start against Indy or the Steelers either (unless JAke throws 3 or 4 picks next week). Its not politically expedient for Shanny to do so quite yet.

But I also bet the well-connected 'Source' that Mort got the info from that Shanny is considering Cutler if JAke cant win against Indy and/or the Steelers is right as well!

It is likely all part of Shanny's carefully considered method of gradually plowing the field of expectations while also turning the heat up on Jake to try to get him to play better. He's letting Cutler know too to get ready after week 8 (that's been my target all along as well when Jay-Cee will likely be up to speed enough to step in and play at a decent level).

Of course, Shanny has been praying Plummer could Carpe Diem this whole thing and take the bull by the horns, but he is also signaling his patience has limits as well!

Witnessing this terrible offensive first half of this season in teh context of teh past few years and Jake's whole career, Plummer simply has no more money left in the 'bank of second chances', and anyone that thinks Plummer could possibly led us to the promiseland playing like this has got to be delusional.

Going to Cutler after the Steelers game guarantees us nothing this year, other than a greatly excellerated maturation period and a better chance in 2007 while still giving us at least as much chance to win it all now as we've got with Jake (slim as that might be).


Very well put........

[Garcia Bronco]

You are not seriously comparing Plummer to what is right now the best QB in the leaque, are you ? McNabb has a bad game once in awhile, with consistent good to great games. Plummer is consistently bad with a couple of DECENT throws here and there.

McNabb is a surpremely better QB, but his team is playing 500 ball...and that's the point.

[Hulamau]

Unfortunately, if things don't start rolling we could weasle our way to a 12 or 13 win season but this wont fly when the big dogs came to play in December and January. While our D has been good, our D has also been lucky (See the Lamont Jordan fumble or any of Champs RZ INTs) and we can't count on that. Without some lucky breaks, we'd be doing well but we wouldn't be anywhere near where we are now with points allowed and possibly even wins. Ultimately, I'd take a few games lost to Cutler errors if he can make us a stronger push when the time comes. Sneaking our with through the season with this 17 point ceiling we have isn't gonna fly when it comes time for trophies and, whether it be with 9 or 15 wins, the playoffs and then those rings are all I'm really concerned with.

good post cah412,

Cutler could lose a couple more games than perhaps Jake might lose in the next couple months and still give us a better chance in the playoffs as he gets better by leaps and bounds each game

[Rascal]

Why is it that the Plummer debate always has to devolve to hostile name-calling bullsh*t? It comes from both side, so I'm not singling out Freak or any other Maner. Just curious. I've got my opinion of why we should stay with Plummer (and believe me, it's not his play) while others have their opinions of why we should start Cutler. The fact that we can't respect each other (and the mods don't seem to care) has taken a lot from the site.

Ben

Word. From what I've read lately, haven't been on much, freak is the worst at name calling hence the reason i don't read his posts.

[gadlaw]

LOL

If Plummer plays this way next week he will be booed off the field, is that sinking in?

LOL LOL
As the man said, the team is 5 - 1 and in first place. I'm not sure that has sunk in for you yet.

[SprintRightOption]

Okay. The shark has been jumped, people. It is about 8:30pm central time on October 22. So far in this thread we have heard:

- someone say they prefer we lose to the Colts, because that might get Jay in there

- someone say that there is no way we will make the playoffs (not win in them, just get there) if Plummer keeps starting

- several people say he is not capable of playing any better than he has, despite the 2003, 2005 (or the first 9 games of, according to coltsoja) or 2004 seasons, in that order.

Jake had a ****ty day and should have had 3-4 picks, and his 2006 season has been pretty bad overall. But I don't think he's the worst QB in the league, and I'm going to do something crazy: root for the Broncos and whoever plays QB next week.

I knew you guys wouldn't let me down.

[Garcia Bronco]

What did I say ? Read it again, LEINART and Young play on bad teams. Cutler would have a very good team around him and could win now. Plummer is being propped up by our team, he is holding us back and you know it.

The two rooks on bad teams could outplay Jake any day.
Give a decent qb we would be super bowl material.

And they at times play badly on bad teams. But that has nothing to do with what's going on here. The situations are almost exclusive from each other

[freak6]

Put Cutler is...it's not going to make a difference. While he may have more zip on the ball...he'll see nothing but eight man fronts.

Ok genius. You want it, you got it.

If they bring the safety up, then that means one of our WR's is matched up one on one paired with a cannon and extremely accurate arm of a poised quarterback, not a happy footed scared QB. Javon Walker is a big play WR that no headcoach on the planet is going to leave single covered, and the same goes for Rod who is the best WR we have at getting open. You think you will see Griese's rookie season all over again. Won't happen because Mike will let LOOSE the playbook with Cutler, as he has stated Cutler allows him to employ every last page of it.

If we go max protect, it won't matter if they bring the house, otherwise they would do it now vs Jake who is a ragarm that can't read a defense to save his life. They can't because our WR's are to dangerous. When Cutler gets in, I <b>hope </b>they put 8 in the box. I hope they disrespect him. He's so much better than any QB we have seen in orange since HIS retirement. Cutler really couldn't do worse than Jake, and even if he did, who cares, switch back to Jake. But he won't, because other than experiance, Cutler is better in every area than Plummer.

What's killing us is the running game not being what it was...that's why the boots rarely work and it's why Jake is having problems.

The running game is fine. Tatum Bell has been running hard all season. 4.7 YPC. Did you happen to see his 9 yard touchdown. Should I even mention the plethora of carries he has lost due to IGNORANT and TERRIBLE passes by Jake Plummer? 585 yards rushing for Tatum Bell.

"At the end of the game, I didn't make good decisions," Plummer said.

Broncos 5th in the NFL in rushing. DOH!!!


he's having to play from the pocket...and he's not tall enough to see the whole field.

Do you even realize that you are making an argument against Jake. You're saying he is only a good QB with the aid of the bootleg to draw the safety up, creating one on one matchups for our WRs, example the Javon Walker catch vs the Raiders.

How weak is that, you are admitting that our QB can't function in the pocket!!!

Is that not a fundamental part of football? DUH. But I digress, you are correct, he does suck in the pocket.

But then you did say the bootlegs don't work because of a lack of running game...

HMMM...

Tell that to Todd Devoe. Did you forget that play? DUH. It's Jake's ragarm that kills these bootlegs. The int to Rod vs the Rams in Stl territory was outside the pocket as well. So basically, it looks like I just showed that Jake sucks outside the pocket, with you saying he sucks inside the pocket. I guess it must be both.

That bootleg today, when he threw a TERRIBLE jump pass over the WIDE OPEN TEs head, and the Safety barely missed scooping it up to put them in scoring position. I guess that was because the running game sucked right.

Now it's because he isn't tall enough to see the whole field... How do I dare shoot that BS down. Dude has been in the league for 10 years Garcia, wake up. It's not his supposed lack of height.

"At the end of the game, I didn't make good decisions," Plummer said.

Even Shanahan has admitted that Jake is missing open recievers, he is SCARED because he has no confidence in that rag arm of his to go deep vs anything but a wide open WR.

[That One Guy]

McNabb is a surpremely better QB, but his team is playing 500 ball...and that's the point.

Gotcha, by allowing 7 points the Broncos have a better record than the Eagles who are allowing 21 per game. Point well taken... I guess... Wait... no... I don't get the point.

[SteveTensi13]

I see no problem in putting in Jay Cutler. Plummer, at this point, is playing EXACTLY like a rookie QB anyways, might as well give Cutler some game time experience. Plummer cannot read defenses, has no pocket awareness and his arm strength, while never in Elways league, has mysteriously vanished. Sometimes I swear I've seen Rod Smith shaking his head leaving the field after another 3 and out or an untimely boneheaded interception.

THE TIME FOR CHANGE IS NOW. Plummer looks to have lost complete confidence in himself and its only a matter of time, if not already, that the team starts feeding off this negativity and affects their play as well.

[freak6]

THE TIME FOR CHANGE IS NOW.

Exactly, vote Democutler!!!

[Rascal]

Whoever is the QB is who I want as QB. If Shanny puts in Cutler fine...if Jake stays the starter...fine. I wonder how many could honestly say that.

[Turf Shaman]

McNabb is a surpremely better QB, but his team is playing 500 ball...and that's the point.

It's a point that couldn't poke a hole through a tissue. If McNabb was QBing the Broncos they'd be 6-0, averaging about two touchdowns more on offense, and the McNabb-Walker combo would be terrorizing opponents. The Broncos have a better team than the Eagles, and that has nothing, absolutely zilch, to do with the quarterbacks. I love many things about this team, obviously #1 is the defense. The defense gets 90% of the credit for the 5-1 start. They are 5-1 IN SPITE of the quarterback play. We can only dance around that point because they are 5-1, but it can't last if the quarterback play doesn't improve.

[freak6]

Whoever is the QB is who I want as QB. If Shanny puts in Cutler fine...if Jake stays the starter...fine. I wonder how many could honestly say that.

As if that is something to be proud of. As if that makes you more of a loyal fan that us. To me it makes you less of a fan. We are not blind to the situation, and have formulated an opinion based upon our expertise from watching this offense function for 11 years now.

If you want to say you are just going along with Shanahan, I can see that as a valid reason for your opinion, but your statement comes off as if you think your support of whoever is back there makes you a better fan that us.

All of us support whoever is back there, I cheer for Jake as much as I did for Elway.

Reality of the situation screams that Jake Plummer is only our starting QB because he has Javon Walker at WR.

[-Slap-]

Whoever is the QB is who I want as QB. If Shanny puts in Cutler fine...if Jake stays the starter...fine. I wonder how many could honestly say that.

Rascal, like willow

Bend in wind of change

Not felled

Like stubborn oak

[gadlaw]

You are not seriously comparing Plummer to what is right now the best QB in the leaque, are you ? McNabb has a bad game once in awhile, with consistent good to great games. Plummer is consistently bad with a couple of DECENT throws here and there.

McNabb is an overhyped east coast wonder the same as Michael Vick. Both quarterbacks, like every other quarterback win some and lose some. Can't remember any Super Bowls either one of them has won. The Broncos got to the AFC Championship game last year and are 5-1 this year. Plummer has thrown a few bad balls same as always but with the Broncos he has been a consistent winner. He runs the plays that are called and continues this year to not overpush himself trying to win by himself. I know we are all waiting for the second coming of Elway/Cutler but I think the coaches think that Jake gives the team the best chance to win today. I'll give the coaches the benefit of the doubt and won't be part of the torch carrying mob.

[SportinOne]

You just hate to see Jake struggle like this after the kind of year he had last year...

What's the difference between last year and this year? I'm not sure.

Another reason you don't like to see him struggle is that it brings down his trade value. I'd almost think that if he keeps doing this the rest of the year that we might as well keep him as a backup. He might not be capable of taking us to a super bowl victory but if the kid goes down (knock on wood), we could go back to playing ugly for a game or two. He has to be the best backup in the league, doesn't he?? doesn't he?

[Hotwheelz]

McNabb is an overhyped east coast wonder the same as Michael Vick. Both quarterbacks, like every other quarterback win some and lose some. Can't remember any Super Bowls either one of them has won. The Broncos got to the AFC Championship game last year and are 5-1 this year. Plummer has thrown a few bad balls same as always but with the Broncos he has been a consistent winner. He runs the plays that are called and continues this year to not overpush himself trying to win by himself. I know we are all waiting for the second coming of Elway/Cutler but I think the coaches think that Jake gives the team the best chance to win today. I'll give the coaches the benefit of the doubt and won't be part of the torch carrying mob.

Did you just compare McNabb to Vick?

Well, hell, then I should be QB.

You're an idiot.

[DBroncos4life]

As if that is something to be proud of. As if that makes you more of a loyal fan that us. To me it makes you less of a fan. We are not blind to the situation, and have formulated an opinion based upon our expertise from watching this offense function for 11 years now.

If you want to say you are just going along with Shanahan, I can see that as a valid reason for your opinion, but your statement comes off as if you think your support of whoever is back there makes you a better fan that us. All of us support whoever is back there, I cheer for Jake as much as I did for Elway.

Reality of the situation screams that Jake Plummer is only our starting QB because he has Javon Walker at WR.

Pretty sure he said NOTHING to make anyone but you think that. In fact in your very own post you went on to call him and others that believe the same exact thing less of a fan then you. Pretty sure over the last few weeks you've been about as big as a cock ****er on this Plummer thing then anyone else I've seen. Its one thing to say Plummer needs benched but to sit there and go after fans that don't think the change is good for the team for whatever reason they believe in is just tacky. Anyways carry on.

[wabbit]

...

What's the difference between last year and this year? I'm not sure...



I'm not certain either, but I would bet that the lack of a productive TE has a LOT to do with it.

[Rascal]

Rascal, like willow

Bend in wind of change

Not felled

Like stubborn oak

LOL

Rep.

[Turf Shaman]

McNabb is an overhyped east coast wonder the same as Michael Vick. Both quarterbacks, like every other quarterback win some and lose some. Can't remember any Super Bowls either one of them has won. The Broncos got to the AFC Championship game last year and are 5-1 this year. Plummer has thrown a few bad balls same as always but with the Broncos he has been a consistent winner. He runs the plays that are called and continues this year to not overpush himself trying to win by himself. I know we are all waiting for the second coming of Elway/Cutler but I think the coaches think that Jake gives the team the best chance to win today. I'll give the coaches the benefit of the doubt and won't be part of the torch carrying mob.

LOL, so you knock McNabb (who is a MUCH better quarterback than Vick, all you need to do is watch football games to know that) for not winning a Super Bowl, but then you praise Plummer for making it to the AFC Championship game in the next sentence. That's classic. McNabb has won a conference championship game at least. Plummer has got nothing on McNabb other than a better team.

[Rascal]

As if that is something to be proud of. As if that makes you more of a loyal fan that us. To me it makes you less of a fan. We are not blind to the situation, and have formulated an opinion based upon our expertise from watching this offense function for 11 years now.

If you want to say you are just going along with Shanahan, I can see that as a valid reason for your opinion, but your statement comes off as if you think your support of whoever is back there makes you a better fan that us.

All of us support whoever is back there, I cheer for Jake as much as I did for Elway.

Reality of the situation screams that Jake Plummer is only our starting QB because he has Javon Walker at WR.

*sigh*

Stop assuming things first of all. Secondly, I don't care what you think.

It makes me less of a fan...LOL!!

Yeah...I'm sure you cheer for Jake as much as you did for Elway. :pigsfly:

Reality screams that Jake is our QB because that's who Shanny wants as his QB regardless of what the fans or media want.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

LOL LOL
As the man said, the team is 5 - 1 and in first place. I'm not sure that has sunk in for you yet.
Aren't you the same person that compared Plummer to McNabb?

[Rascal]

Pretty sure he said NOTHING to make anyone but you think that. In fact in your very own post you went on to call him and others that believe the same exact thing less of a fan then you. Pretty sure over the last few weeks you've been about as big as a cock ****er on this Plummer thing then anyone else I've seen. Its one thing to say Plummer needs benched but to sit there and go after fans that don't think the change is good for the team for whatever reason they believe in is just tacky. Anyways carry on.

Quotted for truth.

[ClevelandBronco]

I want to win in the worst way this year…

No problem. We are winning in the worst way.

[freak6]

Pretty sure he said NOTHING to make anyone but you think that. In fact in your very own post you went on to call him and others that believe the same exact thing less of a fan then you. Pretty sure over the last few weeks you've been about as big as a cock ****er on this Plummer thing then anyone else I've seen.

Oh waaa!!!

BMF started the namecalling, not me. I just told him he should get Plummer tattoo'd on his back and volunteer at the Christian Science reading room because he is clearly wasting his time watching football, not to mention posting here with the ignorant crap he was trying to post which directly contradicted his own asanine statements that they immediately preceded. That was not namecalling.

And he immediately calls me a "moron"...lmfao. Then I went on to completely destroy him post after post after post. He put his ignorance on full display, I just happened to expose it. Do you remember him saying I am homosexually involved with our 1st round draft pick in more specific terms???

Now Garcia spews out even more asanine and ignorant bs in some pathetic desperate attempt to hang onto his reasoning that Plummer should stay at QB.

And this time I left it alone, and simply called it an ignorant and desperate post, probably drunk.

And he calls me out, and I absolutely destroy that post in detail. http://orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=1323759&postcount=102
Did I call him stupid. No, I just proved him completely wrong, and when the Freak goes off and destroys anyone with the FACTS, you guys cry and whine about how mean I am, how I namecalll and the such. Grow some spine, open your eyes, and don't spread or post ignorant BS that is easily taken apart.

Like the following BS in my signature.

[DBroncos4life]

Oh waaa!!!

BMF started the namecalling, not me. I just told him he should get Plummer tattoo'd on his back and volunteer at the Christian Science reading room because he is clearly wasting his time watching football, not to mention posting here with the ignorant crap he was trying to post which directly contradicted his own asanine statements that they immediately preceded. That was not namecalling.

And he immediately calls me a "moron"...lmfao. Then I went on to completely destroy him post after post after post. He put his ignorance on full display, I just happened to expose it. Do you remember him saying I am homosexually involved with our 1st round draft pick in more specific terms???

Now Garcia spews out even more asanine and ignorant bs in some pathetic desperate attempt to hang onto his reasoning that Plummer should stay at QB.

And this time I left it alone, and simply called it an ignorant and desperate post, probably drunk.

And he calls me out, and I absolutely destroy that post in detail. Did I call him stupid. No, I just proved him completely wrong, and when the Freak goes off and destroys anyone with the FACTS, you guys cry and whine about how mean I am, how I namecalll and the such. Grow some spine, open your eyes, and don't spread or post ignorant BS that is easily taken apart.

Like the following BS in my signature.

So how does any of what you just said have to do with Rascal's comment? I mean really? Thats what I want to know. I'm glad Freak thinks Freak is the **** but not once did I say the word mean or say a damn thing about name calling. I did say you are being a cock ****er about the whole Plummer thing and thats it. Again carry on man :welcome:

[SprintRightOption]

And the worst poster award goes to freak6.

Also in the running for special category "Most self congratulations/Most Frequently Stating 'I am winning this argument'"

[freak6]

So how does any of what you just said have to do with Rascal's comment? I mean really? Thats what I want to know. I'm glad Freak thinks Freak is the **** but not once did I say the word mean or say a damn thing about name calling. I did say you are being a cock ****er about the whole Plummer thing and thats it. Again carry on man :welcome:

If his reasoning is whom am I to argue with Shanahan, amen. Same goes for all of us. That is the only valid reason not to be calling for Cutler.

But he said he will root for whomever is playing QB, and that he wonders who else can say that, insinuating that those of us calling for Cutler don't root for Jake.

Then he confirmed that insinuation by stating that he thinks I don't root for Jake as much as I rooted for Elway, or that in some way I am wishing for Jake to fail. Give me a break, all ANY of us want to do is Win as many games as possible. I wish for nothing less than a touchdown every down we play.

It's a typical ploy currently used by other morons that say "Stay the course".

They call anyone else that sees the obvious need for change a traitor, and less of a Fan/American. Pathetic, the reason we call for change is because we love our team/country that much.

Insert quote from Jefferson or Franklin here, there are many about how the function of the people is to check those in charge.

[freak6]

And the worst poster award goes to freak6.

Also in the running for special category "Most self congratulations/Most Frequently Stating 'I am winning this argument'"

Why don't you take me on? Can any of you? I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to debate Jake vs Jay. But SRO and the rest of you have nothing to base you argument on, so you end up calling me a meanie for taking apart ignorant BS excuses that people keep vomitting up.

[DBroncos4life]

If his reasoning is whom am I to argue with Shanahan, amen. Same goes for all of us. That is the only valid reason not to be calling for Cutler.

But he said he will root for whomever is playing QB, and that he wonders who else can say that, insinuating that those of us calling for Cutler don't root for Jake.

Then he confirmed that insinuation by stating that he thinks I don't root for Jake as much as I rooted for Elway, or that in some way I am wishing for Jake to fail. Give me a break, all ANY of us want to do is Win as many games as possible. I wish for nothing less than a touchdown every down we play.

It's a typical ploy currently used by other morons that say "Stay the course".

They call anyone else that sees the obvious need for change a traitor, and less of a Fan/American. Pathetic, the reason we call for change is because we love our team/country that much.

Insert quote from Jefferson or Franklin here, there are many about how the function of the people is to check those in charge.

See there is the problem. You think everything is about you. Pretty sure he just made that statement with really no one in mind other then the fact that HE himself believes that Mike will make the right choices for the team. Now I know thats hard for you to swallow here because, well hell I really have no clue why you can't see that.

Now on to this second bold part. Again you believe that people that back Plummer aren't opening their eyes and being unreasonable to change. Do you not feel that its unreasonable to score on every play? I mean the NFL isn't a cake walk here. Plummer is playing poorly this year. There are many reasons why this is, but it doesn't change the fact that he is our starting QB till Mike makes the change. Fighting week in and week out after a win because we didn't "score" enough or the O is "struggling" is pretty much beating a dead horse.

We lost Kubes, we've gotten crap out of our TE's this year and now our LT could be hurt pretty bad and all you want to do is toss the guy that should be our FUTURE out there now for the sake of opening up the O somemore. I for one don't want to see Cutler out there now that Lepsis is down, but hey thats just MHO.

[errand]

If Shanahan put Cutler in and he plays poorly.... then what?

Exactly...

What amazes me is the TJ's of the world who have never been right when it comes to the QB position are clamoring for a rookie to lead this team......and while they have a valid argument in that Jake hasn't consistently played well, they still fail to point out exactly what has Jay done to deserve the starting nod?


Surely if Jay was performing better in practice, Mike, whose job security is tied to winning, would make the switch if it meant Jay gave us the best chance to win. mike gets paid to look at this team objectively. If Jay deserved to start in Mike's opinion...he'd be starting if you asked me.

Jake made some dumb throws...but c'mon, when you got a 17 point lead and a defense that's beating the snot out of the opposing team...why the hell are you even having your QB throw it in the 4th qtr anyways?

If I were the HC, I'd have sat on that lead and played the field position game...worked for the '77 Broncos, and the '00 Ravens. I'd have force them to go 80, 70, or 60 yards against the NFL's top D....because quite frankly, I doubt they could have.

[baja]

I think Jake lost the locker room today. You know the defense wanted to make history, and Jake screwed that up. The D has to be tired of dragging this team's ass out of the messes that Jake consistently creates.

Just watch this week unfold. Jake has lost the team.

I was thinking the same, if not completely lost at least raised some serous doubt

[errand]

Then we made a lateral move, and we'll still count on our defense to win games... and our real quarterback gets some valuable experience and another step towards his upside.

...or his confidence gets shot, and he goes into the crapper for several years.

BTW. other than his pre-draft work outs and his pre-season peformance against scrubs, just what has you so convinced he's the new Savior of the franchise?

[freak6]

See there is the problem. You think everything is about you. Pretty sure he just made that statement with really no one in mind.

He said he will root for whomever is playing QB, and that he wonders who else can say that, insinuating that those of us calling for Cutler don't root for Jake.

<b>Then he confirmed that insinuation </b>by stating that he thinks I don't root for Jake as much as I rooted for Elway.

So ignorant, I bleed orange as much as ANYONE on this board. WhyTF else would I be on a Bronco message board going on 8 years now with the same people talking about and debating the Broncos and the NFL. I don't give a fk about the name on the jersey, I want more Championship gear, and this BS isnt good enough for me.

<img src="http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/31-86/31-86264-P.jpg">

Especially with the best D in the NFL. Jake has been directly responsible for more than 25% of the points our defense has given up.

The best 11 should be on the field.

[freak6]

Exactly...
they still fail to point out exactly what has Jay done to deserve the starting nod?

Jake gets the reps, but reportedly Cutler is getting more and more. How can he compare the 2 without ever seeing Cutler in game action, let alone limited practice reps. Jay hasn't done anything to DESERVE the starting job, but I'd ask you the same question of Jake and you would say nothing either!!

If Jay deserved to start in Mike's opinion...he'd be starting if you asked me. That's about the only good argument for why Jake should be starting, Mike says so.
why the hell are you even having your QB throw it in the 4th qtr anyways? Well Jake was throwing in the 4th quarter, and was hitting Browns defenders in thier hands!!!

[errand]

For those advocating our starting a rookie QB in a potential SB run....

Look at Leinhart....looked all-world the first game...above average the next, and now after two weeks of game film being available for opponents to look at, he looks like most rookies do....absolutely overwhelmed.

[ZONA]

Man, I don't think I have ever seen a 5-1 team where all the fans are calling to bench the QB.

I agree with the game plan though. We needed to get Jake throwing the pill around to jump start this offense and build his confidence. I think Shanny knew our defense would pretty much put the clamps on the Browns offense so he just let jake air it out, knowing damn well he would probably throw a few picks. Hopefully he can use this to gain some momentum and this offense can start clicking better.

I'm all for Cutler to start but I already know that's not gonna happen this year so I just quit talking about it.

[maven]

There were some factors in this one like the wind, that didn't help anyone who put the ball in the air (passers, punters, kickers). I agree with SoCal that peole are forgeting how many interceptions were dropped by Brown defenders. I'm ready to move on. If there is anything his poor play and this defense has shown, especially with the emergence of a pass rush, it's that we can win with a rookie.

Agree with Socal about drops??? A blind man listening to the game would've realized Jake could've possibly had 5 int's during the game. socal, popps, and others would ride Plummer's jock as long as the team is winning. It is as obvious as to any Plummer is not going to lead this team to the superbowl. I even think they are finally seeing the light

I find it rather entertaining that you, taco, and others were late to the wagon, but with the loudest voice once you finally realized Plummer will not lead us. If the past two seasons wasn't obvious to some that a change was in the works, I don't know what is. I have always thought Plummer was a stop-gap and would never lead this team to a Superbowl victory. He has & never has been a complete player. I'm glad as weeks go by, the more people see the light and the wagon is willing to accept more riders.

See the light, and the wagon accepts all who are willing to join the Cutler wagon.

[No1BroncoFan]

The best 11 should be on the field.
Here's the part that really gets you Cutler guys. According to Shanahan, the best 11 are already out there. Seriously, if Cutler gives us a better chance to win, why is Shanahan sitting on him? Loyalty to Plummer? Bullsh*t. Fear of dividing the locker room? Maybe, in part. Or, how 'bout the idea that Cutler isn't ready to face real NFL defenses. "But he did so good in the pre-season." Yep. He sure did. Against plain vanilla 2nd and third string defenses (don't even go there with Arizona, they are a second string defense). Our offensive line would face all out bull-rushing on every passing down and they're not up to it. Cutler may be 100 times better than Plummer, but he's not currently our best option, period.

Ben

[ClevelandBronco]

There's a little "rage" going on on one side of this non-argument and I'm beginning to suspect that Freak might be Merriman's connection out there in SD.

[Rascal]

He said he will root for whomever is playing QB, and that he wonders who else can say that, insinuating that those of us calling for Cutler don't root for Jake.

<b>Then he confirmed that insinuation </b>by stating that he thinks I don't root for Jake as much as I rooted for Elway.

So ignorant, I bleed orange as much as ANYONE on this board. WhyTF else would I be on a Bronco message board going on 8 years now with the same people talking about and debating the Broncos and the NFL. I don't give a fk about the name on the jersey, I want more Championship gear, and this BS isnt good enough for me.

<img src="http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/31-86/31-86264-P.jpg">

Especially with the best D in the NFL. Jake has been directly responsible for more than 25% of the points our defense has given up.

The best 11 should be on the field.

I didn't insinuate anything. You let your thoughts come up with that.

You were the one that claimed some fans were better then another...or at least implied I did.

This BS of being 5-1 isn't good enough for you? Wow...tough crowd.

[Rascal]

Here's the part that really gets you Cutler guys. According to Shanahan, the best 11 are already out there. Seriously, if Cutler gives us a better chance to win, why is Shanahan sitting on him? Loyalty to Plummer? Bullsh*t. Fear of dividing the locker room? Maybe, in part. Or, how 'bout the idea that Cutler isn't ready to face real NFL defenses. "But he did so good in the pre-season." Yep. He sure did. Against plain vanilla 2nd and third string defenses (don't even go there with Arizona, they are a second string defense). Our offensive line would face all out bull-rushing on every passing down and they're not up to it. Cutler may be 100 times better than Plummer, but he's not currently our best option, period.

Ben


Exactly. The fans and media may disagree, but they aren't the man in charge. And that person in charge says it's Plummer. I'll take his choice over other people's opinions.

[yavoon]

Here's the part that really gets you Cutler guys. According to Shanahan, the best 11 are already out there. Seriously, if Cutler gives us a better chance to win, why is Shanahan sitting on him? Loyalty to Plummer? Bullsh*t. Fear of dividing the locker room? Maybe, in part. Or, how 'bout the idea that Cutler isn't ready to face real NFL defenses. "But he did so good in the pre-season." Yep. He sure did. Against plain vanilla 2nd and third string defenses (don't even go there with Arizona, they are a second string defense). Our offensive line would face all out bull-rushing on every passing down and they're not up to it. Cutler may be 100 times better than Plummer, but he's not currently our best option, period.

Ben

why have any discussion over personnel if the answer is, "shannahan is right, shutup."

I hope the jake plummer side doesnt slide into conversation killing arguments.

[Rascal]

And as per his usual MO freak starts calling people morons yet again who disagree with him. Brilliant.

[Rascal]

There's a little "rage" going on on one side of this non-argument and I'm beginning to suspect that Freak might be Merriman's connection out there in SD.

LOL

[cutthemdown]

I'm hoping Shannahan just waiting for the right time to switch to Cutler. He wants it to be in a way where he could still go back to Jake Plummer if Cutler struggled even worst then Plummer has been. So we Probably have to be behind in a game really bad, or lose a couple in a row. It's brutal watching Plummer butcher the game of football the way he is, but we are winning which is all that matters for now.

[freak6]

"But he did so good in the pre-season." Yep. He sure did. Against plain vanilla 2nd and third string defenses (don't even go there with Arizona, they are a second string defense).

Ben

Titans and Lions both played thier starters vs Cutler, as did the Cardinals D that pretty much shut out the Bears high flying offense.

Jake is worse than that rookie in Az.

[Jason in LA]

Well who really cares that the guy is completing 52% of his passes, and is on pace to throw 18 ints with only 10 TDs and only 2600 yards? It's about the wins isn't it?

[freak6]

And as per his usual MO freak starts calling people morons yet again who disagree with him. Brilliant.

What I did is use facts to destroy Garcia's pathetic and desperate attempt to apologize for Jake Plummer play.

Einstien defined insane as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I didn't call anyone specifically a moron, just those that refuse to change course in a losing cause, ie the war in Iraq. But the Broncos are on a 5 game winning streak. If we were losing, then I would out and out call Mike Shanahan a moron.

But I will call ignorant people spouting off complete BS like Garcia did as evidence to support thier weak position stupid, because that is how they are representing themselves.

[Rigs11]

Ahh you guys and your stats. Who gives a fack if Plummer throws 10 interceptions as long as we win.Also Shanny opened up the offense today becasue all you stat whores weren't happy with him handing the ball off even though we were winning. Unfortunately it was windy as hell. Was I the only one that saw the ball get taken by the wind on those 2 field goals?And we threw the ball how many times? keep crying about Plummer but we've won 5 in a row.

[Rigs11]

Well who really cares that the guy is completing 52% of his passes, and is on pace to throw 18 ints with only 10 TDs and only 2600 yards? It's about the wins isn't it?

yep. Unless they let you into the playoffs based on stats.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'm so sick of arguing about this. The bottom line is that we aren't going anywhere this year with Plummer at QB. He sucks...plain and simple. He's been just horrible and a blind man can see it. Let see what happens next week when we need more than 17 points to win.

I'd start Cutler even if it meant losing a couple games we should win because Jake's time has come and gone. I want him out of there. Our offense stinks and he's the primary reason why.

[DBroncos4life]

I'm so sick of arguing about this. The bottom line is that we aren't going anywhere this year with Plummer at QB. He sucks...plain and simple. He's been just horrible and a blind man can see it. Let see what happens next week when we need more than 17 points to win.

I'd start Cutler even if it meant losing a couple games we should win because Jake's time has come and gone. I want him out of there. Our offense stinks and he's the primary reason why.

The Titans held the Colts to 14 points but then again they have a much better D then we do. Uhh

[freak6]

Who gives a fack if Plummer throws 10 interceptions as long as we win. Maybe because we are looking toward the playoffs. I might be wrong, it's probably because we all took Jake in fantasy football!!! Also Shanny opened up the offense today <b>becasue all you stat whores weren't happy with him</b>.

lmao

[footstepsfrom#27]

The Titans held the Colts to 14 points but then again they have a much better D then we do. Uhh
I don't suppose the Colts took them for granted and brought their B game though right? If you think we'll beat them scoring 14 I think you're mistaken. We're not going to go this whole year holding teams to 7 points a game.

[Jason in LA]

I'd start Cutler even if it meant losing a couple games we should win because Jake's time has come and gone.

You know what, even if it meant the Broncos would lose a couple of games, it might not be a bad thing because the Broncos have stocked up on some wins so far. And the way the defense is playing, they can win games without the offense.

The defense and running game can get this team to the playoffs. By then Cutler could have enough starts to give the team something come playoff time.

[DBroncos4life]

I don't suppose the Colts took them for granted and brought their B game though right? If you think we'll beat them scoring 14 I think you're mistaken. We're not going to go this whole year holding teams to 7 points a game.

That maybe but this isn't last years Colts. Today was the best I've seen them play in weeks.

[Rascal]

What I did is use facts to destroy Garcia's pathetic and desperate attempt to apologize for Jake Plummer play.

Einstien defined insane as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I didn't call anyone specifically a moron, just those that refuse to change course in a losing cause, ie the war in Iraq. But the Broncos are on a 5 game winning streak. If we were losing, then I would out and out call Mike Shanahan a moron.

But I will call ignorant people spouting off complete BS like Garcia did as evidence to support thier weak position stupid, because that is how they are representing themselves.

See post 124 Einstein.

So we are morons for refusing to change course when the Broncos are 5-1? Brilliant!!

[NFLBRONCO]

GREAT WIN! It's awesome to be in first place in the AFC West.

When are we going to bench Plummer?

We are winning so nothing will happen with Jake. If we lost 2 games in a row I could see Cutler playing.

[freak6]

We all saw what Cutler did to 3 1st string defenses with OUR SCRUBS.

What would he do with Javon, Rod, the first string running game, and a freak like this? Much better than our scared, happy footed, rag arm, that admits "I made some poor decisions towards the end of the game"...

[maven]

Jake sucks, but I'm glad the Broncos won.

[freak6]

See post 124 Einstein.

So we are morons for refusing to change course when the Broncos are 5-1? Brilliant!!

No, people that use BS excuses are morons. People that claim to be bigger fans than others who have a difference of opinion are morons. If you can back up what you are saying, I have no problem with that.

It's ok, the tide is turning. 6 games in with no change and finally the Plummer homers are waking up. Those of us that saw no change from last season to this season have every right to say "I told you so".

I didn't label anyone a moron until they started vomiting all over themselves and this board, like Popps, BMF, and Garcia did.

But if you wanna say "I think Plummer should start because Shanahan said so", amen. I happen to disagree for all the 100s of valid reasons I have posted. Your only reason is a record we have no thanks to Jake Plummer, who is responsible for at least 13 of the 43 points our defense has given up. Actually more, because his idiotic interceptions have cost us a bunch of points as well.

"I made some poor decision toward the end of the game"...

Every game outside of Mass.

[Rascal]

I stole this from a guy named SSOG:

Pop quiz... name the only NFL team to win its last 4 games by double-digits.
Answer: Denver.

Okay, that was an easy one. Name the only other NFL team to win its last THREE games by double-digits.
Answer: New England.

And what happened to New England 4 weeks ago? That's right, they lost to Denver by double digits (in New England, I might add).

Okay, another question. How many teams, besides Denver and New England, have even managed to win TWO straight by 10+?
Answer: None.

How many teams, besides Denver and New England, have managed to win two straight games by even SEVEN points?
Answer: Minnesota, and that's it.

The moral of this story? While this certainly isn't the Denver offense we've all grown accustomed to, it hasn't made one bit of difference. No team other than Denver has been as consistantly dominant this season. Your other contenders are teams such as Indy (beat Tenn by 1 point on a last-second comeback), New England (lost to Denver, but has been rolling since), Philly (lost to Tampa Bay), San Diego (lost to KC), and Chicago (miracle MNF comeback against the team that just got rolled by Oakland). Would I love for Denver to hang 50 on someone at some point? Absolutely. But I'm not beating myself up over the fact that they haven't yet. Keep winning by 10, and I'll keep on managing to find something to smile about. :)

[dbfan4life]

God, it sucks being 5-1.

[maven]

I stole this from a guy named SSOG:

Pop quiz... name the only NFL team to win its last 4 games by double-digits.
Answer: Denver.

Okay, that was an easy one. Name the only other NFL team to win its last THREE games by double-digits.
Answer: New England.

And what happened to New England 4 weeks ago? That's right, they lost to Denver by double digits (in New England, I might add).

Okay, another question. How many teams, besides Denver and New England, have even managed to win TWO straight by 10+?
Answer: None.

How many teams, besides Denver and New England, have managed to win two straight games by even SEVEN points?
Answer: Minnesota, and that's it.

The moral of this story? While this certainly isn't the Denver offense we've all grown accustomed to, it hasn't made one bit of difference. No team other than Denver has been as consistantly dominant this season. Your other contenders are teams such as Indy (beat Tenn by 1 point on a last-second comeback), New England (lost to Denver, but has been rolling since), Philly (lost to Tampa Bay), San Diego (lost to KC), and Chicago (miracle MNF comeback against the team that just got rolled by Oakland). Would I love for Denver to hang 50 on someone at some point? Absolutely. But I'm not beating myself up over the fact that they haven't yet. Keep winning by 10, and I'll keep on managing to find something to smile about. :)

This sounds like gamblimg statistics. Which can be useless.

The broncos/patriots are both 5-1.

I'd rather be the colts who are 6-0

[Rascal]

No, people that use BS excuses are morons. People that claim to be bigger fans than others who have a difference of opinion are morons. If you can back up what you are saying, I have no problem with that.

It's ok, the tide is turning. 6 games in with no change and finally the Plummer homers are waking up. Those of us that saw no change from last season to this season have every right to say "I told you so".

I never gave an excuse, and I never claimed to be a bigger or better fan. You did though, so I guess that makes you the moron.

You have every right to shut the hell up also.

[Rascal]

This sounds like gamblimg statistics. Which can be useless.

The broncos/patriots are both 5-1.

I'd rather be the colts who are 6-0

Gambling statistics from that? Interesting.

[freak6]

I never gave an excuse, and I never claimed to be a bigger or better fan. You did though, so I guess that makes you the moron.


I think it show's a laissez faire attitude to just say, "Cuz Mike said so, so shut up". I think people that don't vote or have an opinion are less American than those that do as well. It shows that you care. How many people keep restating "Relax, we won". DOH, that was you huh.

What's the point of a discussion board otherwise. "Hey we won, let's shut down the board til next Sunday and eat our McCaffrey Flakes covered in McCaffrey Mustard". No thanks.

[Taco John]

What I did is use facts to destroy Garcia's pathetic and desperate attempt to apologize for Jake Plummer play.

Einstien defined insane as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I didn't call anyone specifically a moron, just those that refuse to change course in a losing cause, ie the war in Iraq. But the Broncos are on a 5 game winning streak. If we were losing, then I would out and out call Mike Shanahan a moron.

But I will call ignorant people spouting off complete BS like Garcia did as evidence to support thier weak position stupid, because that is how they are representing themselves.



Comparing football situations to political situations is about as moronic as they come, Freak. Come on.

You're the kind of in-your-face Democrat that makes moderates want to vote Republican just to spite you. You should really think about it, because it doesn't help your cause at all.

[24champ]

What I did is use facts to destroy Garcia's pathetic and desperate attempt to apologize for Jake Plummer play.

Einstien defined insane as doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I didn't call anyone specifically a moron, just those that refuse to change course in a losing cause, ie the war in Iraq. But the Broncos are on a 5 game winning streak. If we were losing, then I would out and out call Mike Shanahan a moron.

But I will call ignorant people spouting off complete BS like Garcia did as evidence to support thier weak position stupid, because that is how they are representing themselves.

Wow...is all I have to say.

[ludo21]

Great points on this thread.

Plummer came out stronger than in recent weeks, but fell off the wagon late. Missing easy slant passes, poor deep balls...

But STILL, I would NOT make a change until we start LOSING!! Game 1, Jake cost us the game, since then, he has made just enough plays to win games for us, and thats enough for me. When Jake starts costing us wins, then make the move, but ill stand firm till that time.

[Popps]

I'm not certain either, but I would bet that the lack of a productive TE has a LOT to do with it.

No question. Sheffler has looked pretty spastic. Given, the chemistry prob could be part Jake, but Jake hasn't had much problem with his other new weapon.

Now I'm hearing that Shef was benched? Very disappointing. I really thought that kid would be tearing it up by now.

Time to get Alexander more involved? He and Jake had decent chemistry last season. Not great, but he always seemed good for a catch or two a game.

[SoCalBronco]

What's the point of a discussion board otherwise. "Hey we won, let's shut down the board til next Sunday and eat our McCaffrey Flakes covered in McCaffrey Mustard". No thanks.

That would taste pretty gross. :) Cornflakes with mustard fit in with each other about as well as Bob and supermodels.

[MrPeepers]

i'm going to vegas this weekend...

girlfriend from indianapolis is betting on the colts, me obviously going for broncos.

how do you bet on these teams at the sportsbook? is one casinos better than another? do i bet spreads or winner or what? never bet on a game before.

[fontaine]

You know what's funny? Jake has steadily eroded his base of support with each sub-par performance. People who were pleading for patience a couple weeks ago are ready to pelt his porch with garbage and rotten fruit today.

Not that I blame them. We all have different breaking points. We all have different capacities for self deception.


This is the way I see it too.

Mike Shanahan IS NOT going to bench Plummer on the basis of his poor play. Plummer has already turned the ball over like 13 times in just six games so far.

If Mike was going to bench Plummer he would have done it before.

The ONLY thing Plummer has going for him is Cutler inexperience and that Jake does have the respect and support of his team mates. His 2nd interception pretty much destroyed that great TD streak our defense had going so sooner or later with plays like that he IS going to alienate his team mates and most vocal supporters like Rod/Lynch.

When that happens, Shanahan will start Cutler because he can't afford to screw with team chemistry and send the wrong signal to his players by inserting a rookie QB while we're still winning and the team leaders believe in Jake. But I see that support eroding away when Jake does things like throw that int just seconds after Champ made that great defensive play in the red zone. That kind of crap raises questions among even the most senior and most patient players in the locker room.

Mike has his finger on the pulse of this team and when he suspects that Jake is losing command of the huddle and respect from his team mates, that's when Jake forces Mike to go to the rookie.

At least that's the way I see it.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

i'm going to vegas this weekend...

girlfriend from indianapolis is betting on the colts, me obviously going for broncos.

how do you bet on these teams at the sportsbook? is one casinos better than another? do i bet spreads or winner or what? never bet on a game before.

Double down on 5... and hit on 17. Do it consistantly and you'll have the table to yourself. When the others start to b!tchin, tell them that's how you roll... and eat a $25 chip right in their face.

Skip the glitz and glamour of the Strip... and head on down to the Westward Ho!

When you get hungry, go to the buffet at Circus Circus for some all you can eat hot-dogs and Mac-n-Cheese.

Never play cards against anyone named after a city. I thougt it was B.S. when I first heard it... trust me on this one.

Remember... free drinks. 15% of free is nothing the last time I checked. Tell that cocktail waitress to drop the attitude and keep 'em coming... and give her a swat on the ass. They love it.

Stick with that advice, and your Vegas trip will be MONEY BABY!!

[Blueflame]

Why is it that the Plummer debate always has to devolve to hostile name-calling bullsh*t? It comes from both side, so I'm not singling out Freak or any other Maner. Just curious. I've got my opinion of why we should stay with Plummer (and believe me, it's not his play) while others have their opinions of why we should start Cutler. The fact that we can't respect each other (and the mods don't seem to care) has taken a lot from the site.

Ben

It's easy to get caught up in the heat of a lively debate... but when all's said and done, at the end of the day, we're on the same side. Broncos fans may disagree on the course of action that should be taken (start this QB or bench that one) but the common goal is for the team to win football games, go to the playoffs, and win it all. The namecalling and rudeness are unnecessary and solve nothing. A perspective that varies from one's own is not necessarily inherently "wrong" or "flawed"; it's just different and should be respected, imho.

[Northman]

What about McNabb....he threw 3 int's today...two TD's to the other team..still accounted for 33 plus points in FF........The Eagles lost. Awesome. Would you rather have that?



But the defense still kept them in the game. And McNabb still put up enough points to win. The TB kicker made a great kick but Philly could have easily won that game. And Pitt? The defense played horrible yesterday yet the Pitt offense still put up the points to be competitive. If the defense struggles against the Colts and the offense doesnt put up enough points to keep us in the game are you going to blame the defense? Answer: Yes

[Kaylore]

You know what, even if it meant the Broncos would lose a couple of games, it might not be a bad thing because the Broncos have stocked up on some wins so far. And the way the defense is playing, they can win games without the offense.

The defense and running game can get this team to the playoffs. By then Cutler could have enough starts to give the team something come playoff time.

I like this idea. Is Cutler anymore of an unknown than Jake? Well, yes in that the "known" Jake is one that keeps turning the ball over, holding onto the ball too long and throwing behind his receivers. Cutler can do at least that. He'll be rough at first but I think that he could become decent enough by the playoffs.

[riiiiick]

who can say that cutlers mistakes could not cost us games? many in this thread say "he can't do any worse", i assume you mean stats and you are right (bradley would have better stats!), but if you mean wins, he could do a lot worse. if you mean mistakes that cost a win, he could do a lot worse. last week everyone was like, "look at all the other rook QB's, they're doing great", well not this week. teams purposely put more heat on a rook, the odds/history are greatly in their favor. anyway, wanting cutler since draft day is not unreasonable, but saying he can't do any worse, when the team is 5-1 is unproven, at best.

[Odysseus]

Comparing football situations to political situations is about as moronic as they come, Freak. Come on.

You're the kind of in-your-face Democrat that makes moderates want to vote Republican just to spite you. You should really think about it, because it doesn't help your cause at all.

I'm in total agreement. When did we become a nation of Mullahs instead of a democracy? We are no better than a bunch of shieks willing to destroy reputations, careers or caretakes of only our best ideas for the smallest insult. Our best and brightest cannot be heard in this take over by the talking heads. We are forced to choose between which liar lies best instead of anything right.

[-Slap-]

who can say that cutlers mistakes could not cost us games? many in this thread say "he can't do any worse", i assume you mean stats and you are right (bradley would have better stats!), but if you mean wins, he could do a lot worse. if you mean mistakes that cost a win, he could do a lot worse. last week everyone was like, "look at all the other rook QB's, they're doing great", well not this week. teams purposely put more heat on a rook, the odds/history are greatly in their favor. anyway, wanting cutler since draft day is not unreasonable, but saying he can't do any worse, when the team is 5-1 is unproven, at best.

Jake had two interceptions and at least three more balls that should have been picked. He did everything in his power to lose that game, but our defense was too good to let it happen and Cleveland was too inept to force the issue.

[Odysseus]

It is too early for Cutler but I would love to bench Plummer. I cannot believe he gave up the Browns shutout. The defense is the only thing that has carried him and this is how he rewards them? "We" have to get better on offense? "We" need to bench Plummer but "We" have to sit on Cutler a little longer.

"We" are not happy with you Jake. The minute the Broncos get the running game up one more notch. "We" might be interested in seeing Cutler hand off the ball since "WE" want 4 quarters of football.

Jake is a disaster addict. If Jay has to start too early because this guy has bad mental habits I don't think keeping Jake around is any kind of option.

[DarkHorse]

This years team doesn't seem to have "it" - and by "it" I mean excitement, fun, joy of playing the game, etc...


This yawn inducing anemic offense will not beat the Colts, I don't care how good the defense is. At some point in time we will need to score points and so far, against some of the worst defenses in the game right now we haven't shown that we can do that.

Nice to win but sure is boring to watch.

[fontaine]

It is too early for Cutler but I would love to bench Plummer. I cannot believe he gave up the Browns shutout. The defense is the only thing that has carried him and this is how he rewards them? "We" have to get better on offense? "We" need to bench Plummer but "We" have to sit on Cutler a little longer.

"We" are not happy with you Jake. The minute the Broncos get the running game up one more notch. "We" might be interested in seeing Cutler hand off the ball since "WE" want 4 quarters of football.

Jake is a disaster addict. If Jay has to start too early because this guy has bad mental habits I don't think keeping Jake around is any kind of option.


I agree that it's too early for Cutler, especially when we've got Indy/Pitt coming right up.

After we went up 17-0 with the way our defense was stomping all over them, I was secretly wishing we would insert Mike Bell/Cutler in for "mop up" duties. It would have been the perfect situation to see how the kid is progressing and how he fares against the same defense with the same set of WRs without stirring up too much controversy, but instead we got to see Plummer flutter up ducks that must have had Mike's heart in his throat.

We're not going to get the same luxury against the Colts/Steelers. It's too bad really.

[freak6]

I agree that it's too early for Cutler, especially when we've got Indy/Pitt coming right up.


I think the upcoming schedule provides even more reason for Cutler to play.

Jake Plummer has been awful in 5 of 6 games!!!

What makes any of you think it is going to change. He does not give us the best chance to win against the Colts. If it turns into a shootout, (I think we'll hold them to 14 or less) then Cutler should definitely be in there.

A Jake mistake will cost us even more vs these teams!!!

It's time to wake up Bronco fans. 43 points we have given up. 33% of those I can pin on Jake Plummer. How many points has he taken off the board? How many carries has Tatum Bell lost?

The time for Cutler to start was week 2.

[fontaine]

I think the upcoming schedule provides even more reason for Cutler to play.

Jake Plummer has been awful in 5 of 6 games!!!

What makes any of you think it is going to change. He does not give us the best chance to win against the Colts. If it turns into a shootout, (I think we'll hold them to 14 or less) then Cutler should definitely be in there.

A Jake mistake will cost us even more vs these teams!!!

It's time to wake up Bronco fans. 43 points we have given up. 33% of those I can pin on Jake Plummer. How many points has he taken off the board? How many carries has Tatum Bell lost?

The time for Cutler to start was week 2.

I'm not disagreeing with you but putting Cutler in these two high pressure games is asking for trouble.

The time to play Cutler was late in the 3rd yesterday when we were up 17-0 and our defense was destroying the Browns because they was no pressure, Cleveland was missing it's best CB, and Cutler should have been inserted for "mop up" duties without stirring up too much controversy.

As it is we're in a lucky position where the Colts are missing two DTs in Reagor/Cory Simon so we need to run the ball against them, play conservatively in the passing game and pray the defense can hold them.

[freak6]

As it is we're in a lucky position where the Colts are missing two DTs in Reagor/Cory Simon so we need to run the ball against them, play conservatively in the passing game and pray the defense can hold them.

My thoughts exactly. But, that dictates that the play action pass is going to be an integral part of the game plan. I am so fed up with Jake throwing ducks to wide open WRs, who are looking to call for a fair catch becuase the corner ends up with enough time to recover and drill the reciever counting clouds before making the catch.

It happened to Ashley 4 times last year, could've been 4 TDs with a stronger year. Mike saw it just like we did, hence, Cutler.

We gotta convert those plays into TDs where the WR is led to the endzone ala Rod Smith SB 33, or fast forward to Kircus vs Arizona this pre-season.

I'm sure Jake will start, but if we get down, then I think we gotta turn to the rookie and cross our fingers. Hell of a fire to get thrown in if it does go down like that. But I have faith in the kid.

[gadlaw]

Did you just compare McNabb to Vick?

Well, hell, then I should be QB.

You're an idiot.

I didn't compare them, I used them in the same sentence. And as for comparisons - here's the comparison: They are both overhyped quarterbacks. And you're a - nope can't do it. Personal comments? Good for you. Sign of good character. Not.

[Odysseus]

This past weekend pretty much the best quarterbadks in the league got owned....across the board.

This is a rookie QB. Lepsis is hurt. Jake is not Charlie Batch. This is an ugly position to be in. This year it is all about the defense. The bottomline might be that Jake is playing so bad that it just doesn't matter.

Oh yeah. Our running game might get exposed but other than that we've got this.

[fontaine]

My thoughts exactly. But, that dictates that the play action pass is going to be an integral part of the game plan. I am so fed up with Jake throwing ducks to wide open WRs, who are looking to call for a fair catch becuase the corner ends up with enough time to recover and drill the reciever counting clouds before making the catch.

It happened to Ashley 4 times last year, could've been 4 TDs with a stronger year. Mike saw it just like we did, hence, Cutler.

We gotta convert those plays into TDs where the WR is led to the endzone ala Rod Smith SB 33, or fast forward to Kircus vs Arizona this pre-season.

I'm sure Jake will start, but if we get down, then I think we gotta turn to the rookie and cross our fingers. Hell of a fire to get thrown in if it does go down like that. But I have faith in the kid.

Hilarious!

Hey I've resigned myself to expecting the same old thing by Jake. I don't have any faith in him.

I'm just counting on Bell/Walker to carry the offense and the D to carry this team and so far they haven't disapointed!

Once you change your perspective, you won't get so fed up!
;D

[Traveler]

My take is that Jake is just continuing his pattern of one good year followed by one bad year?

[Garcia Bronco]

"If they bring the safety up, then that means one of our WR's is matched up one on one paired with a cannon and extremely accurate arm of a poised quarterback, not a happy footed scared QB. Javon Walker is a big play WR that no headcoach on the planet is going to leave single covered, and the same goes for Rod who is the best WR we have at getting open. You think you will see Griese's rookie season all over again. Won't happen because Mike will let LOOSE the playbook with Cutler, as he has stated Cutler allows him to employ every last page of it."

Speculation...it's not as easy as one plus one equals two. A rookie will struggle...pure and simple.

"If we go max protect, it won't matter if they bring the house, otherwise they would do it now vs Jake who is a ragarm that can't read a defense to save his life. They can't because our WR's are to dangerous. When Cutler gets in, I <b>hope </b>they put 8 in the box. I hope they disrespect him. He's so much better than any QB we have seen in orange since HIS retirement. Cutler really couldn't do worse than Jake, and even if he did, who cares, switch back to Jake. But he won't, because other than experiance, Cutler is better in every area than Plummer."

Even Elway struggled his rookie year....he was in...then Reeves pulled him out. Cutler might be better, but to assume he will is out of box.



"The running game is fine. Tatum Bell has been running hard all season. 4.7 YPC. Did you happen to see his 9 yard touchdown. Should I even mention the plethora of carries he has lost due to IGNORANT and TERRIBLE passes by Jake Plummer? 585 yards rushing for Tatum Bell.

"At the end of the game, I didn't make good decisions," Plummer said.

Broncos 5th in the NFL in rushing. DOH!!!"


5th in rushing is comparing us to the field...but you know as well as I do that it is not what it was last season....and it's not what it was with Portis or Davis.



"Do you even realize that you are making an argument against Jake. You're saying he is only a good QB with the aid of the bootleg to draw the safety up, creating one on one matchups for our WRs, example the Javon Walker catch vs the Raiders.

How weak is that, you are admitting that our QB can't function in the pocket!!!

Is that not a fundamental part of football? DUH. But I digress, you are correct, he does suck in the pocket.

But then you did say the bootlegs don't work because of a lack of running game...

HMMM...

Tell that to Todd Devoe. Did you forget that play? DUH. It's Jake's ragarm that kills these bootlegs. The int to Rod vs the Rams in Stl territory was outside the pocket as well. So basically, it looks like I just showed that Jake sucks outside the pocket, with you saying he sucks inside the pocket. I guess it must be both.

That bootleg today, when he threw a TERRIBLE jump pass over the WIDE OPEN TEs head, and the Safety barely missed scooping it up to put them in scoring position. I guess that was because the running game sucked right.

Now it's because he isn't tall enough to see the whole field... How do I dare shoot that BS down. Dude has been in the league for 10 years Garcia, wake up. It's not his supposed lack of height.

"At the end of the game, I didn't make good decisions," Plummer said.

Even Shanahan has admitted that Jake is missing open recievers, he is SCARED because he has no confidence in that rag arm of his to go deep vs anything but a wide open WR."[/QUOTE]

His height has always been the problem combined with the lack of passing lanes...it is what it is...but to say a rookie with no NFL experience is going to solve the problem is short sighted.

[Garcia Bronco]

Gotcha, by allowing 7 points the Broncos have a better record than the Eagles who are allowing 21 per game. Point well taken... I guess... Wait... no... I don't get the point.

McNabb is a great QB....but his team is playing 500 ball...and he threw 2 TD's to the other team yesterday.

[clarker]

I don't know if I want Jake benched or not but we won't beat the Colts if he plays like he did yesterday.

I don't think we would beat them with Cutler either, but I keep asking myself if the 10 year vet keeps making rookie mistakes, why not play the rookie who has a bigger up side?

[Garcia Bronco]

It's a point that couldn't poke a hole through a tissue. If McNabb was QBing the Broncos they'd be 6-0, averaging about two touchdowns more on offense, and the McNabb-Walker combo would be terrorizing opponents. The Broncos have a better team than the Eagles, and that has nothing, absolutely zilch, to do with the quarterbacks. I love many things about this team, obviously #1 is the defense. The defense gets 90% of the credit for the 5-1 start. They are 5-1 IN SPITE of the quarterback play. We can only dance around that point because they are 5-1, but it can't last if the quarterback play doesn't improve.

I think we are 5-1 because of the entire team.

[freak6]

His height has always been the problem combined with the lack of passing lanes...

You said the running game not being the same is why Jake sucks. We are 5th in the NFL in rushing.

Point destroyed.

How many rushing yards have been lost due to terrible Jake Plummer interceptions?

Point further destroyed.

How many points that the D has given up have been the direct result of Jake turnovers? 13 of the 43 the D has given up.

Point further destroyed.

Your reasoning for keeping Jake in there is that "a rookie will struggle, pure and simple, even Elway struggled"

Did Elway have the 5th leading running game, 4.7 YPC? Did Elway have the best D in the NFL? It was solid, but not like this. Did Elway have a HOF WR teamed with an ALL-Pro WR? Did Elway have Shanahan or Reeves calling the plays?

Point destroyed.

Your reasoning for keeping Jake in there is that "a rookie will struggle, pure and simple, even Elway struggled"

Jake Plummer - QB rating 63

Point destroyed.

Next.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I think we are 5-1 because of the entire team.
You should probably slow down on the "thinking" then if that's what you believe.

[bronco militia]

http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/Drew1023toon.gif

[Garcia Bronco]

We all saw what Cutler did to 3 1st string defenses with OUR SCRUBS.

What would he do with Javon, Rod, the first string running game, and a freak like this? Much better than our scared, happy footed, rag arm, that admits "I made some poor decisions towards the end of the game"...


He played more second and third string defenses...and we don't have scrubs. I think perhaps you have over played the preseason in your mind

[Bronco_Beerslug]

http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/drew1021toon.gif

[Bronco_Beerslug]

http://blogs.rockymountainnews.com/denver/drew/archives/drew1020toon.gif

OK. So we need a nickname. Remember we're dealing with that putrid excuse for an offense the Broncos currently have so make your nickname suggestion reflect that. Silly is great. Satirical is better. Leave any ideas you might have by clicking on comments. Be sure to leave an e-mail address in the e-mail field of the comment box (It's not seen online or published in any way. It's just so we can contact you to let you know if you've won). The Bozos (and Drew, of course) will look over the entrys and select a winner. The winner will get next weeks Bozos of Blitz cartoon original which will have your name in it because you won, a nice copy of the whole page with the cartoon on it and we'll even throw in a Fraternal Order of Pigskin T-shirt (sizes are limited) and an autographed "Give my Regards to Elway" book to round out the prizes. Have a blast. Send us as many ideas as you want. We'll take suggestions all week and decide the winner next Wednesday. Thanks for reading. Happy nicknaming.
Drew and those Bozos of Blitz, Fred and Dean.

[Garcia Bronco]

"You said the running game not being the same is why Jake sucks. We are 5th in the NFL in rushing."

The running game is not fooling the defense enough for the boots...on the playaction....which is where jakes does his damage. Which is why he's not performing as well.

"How many rushing yards have been lost due to terrible Jake Plummer interceptions?"

Look into your crystal ball

"How many points that the D has given up have been the direct result of Jake turnovers? 13 of the 43 the D has given up."

Jake isn't the only guy who has caused turnovers that have led to points

"Your reasoning for keeping Jake in there is that "a rookie will struggle, pure and simple, even Elway struggled""

"Did Elway have the 5th leading running game, 4.7 YPC? Did Elway have the best D in the NFL? It was solid, but not like this. Did Elway have a HOF WR teamed with an ALL-Pro WR? Did Elway have Shanahan or Reeves calling the plays?"

The evidence is overwhelming on rookie QB's. They struggle. The best you could hope for is a Rothlisberger type season...and there is no gurantee that will happen.

[gadlaw]

LOL, so you knock McNabb (who is a MUCH better quarterback than Vick, all you need to do is watch football games to know that) for not winning a Super Bowl, but then you praise Plummer for making it to the AFC Championship game in the next sentence. That's classic. McNabb has won a conference championship game at least. Plummer has got nothing on McNabb other than a better team.

Look, McNabb is as much a winner as John Elway was before two Super Bowl wins. He's a good quarterback, not a great quarterback - yet or ever. At this point Elway had taken the team on his back to Super Bowl loses and was 'never won the big one' Elway by the media. Before the Super Bowl against Green Bay I remember them asking Elway and everyone else on the team if they thought that Elway could make it into the Hall of Fame without winning the Super Bowl cause nobody thought he'd win one. McNabb doesn't get that qualifier by the media. So I'll always diss on every 'greatest thing since sliced bread' quarterback who hasn't won a Super Bowl and who doesn't get the same treatment that Elway got when he was playing. Today over at NFL.com Shannon Sharpe writes that McNabb's turnovers were too much for his team to overcome. The point being that even the great McNabb that so many people are offended that I mentioned in the same breath with Vick loses games due to his own mistakes. If it was Plummer you'd be calling for his head like you're doing now. NcNabb's team lost, Plummer's team won. And as far as Plummer taking the team to the Conference Championship I can't understand how so many of you can't seem to remember that Plummer has done well so hey, I'll mention it as evidence of Plummer being the best quarterback that Shanny has with the best chance of winning right now. And in losing that game I saw the whole team lose it, not just Plummer. So I assume when you say 'classic' you mean too complicated of a train of thought.

And you're right, Plummer doesn't have anything on McNabb except a better team. But it's a team sport, not Battle of the Network Stars. The coaches think Plummer is the starter and that seems about right. I understand and I agree that it's like watching the Chicago Bears instead of the Denver Broncos out there. It's frustrating and not what I'm used to seeing but dropping Cutway in there right now isn't the answer, you don't change the engine when all that's wrong is underinflated tires.

[gadlaw]

I stole this from a guy named SSOG:

Pop quiz... name the only NFL team to win its last 4 games by double-digits.
Answer: Denver.

Okay, that was an easy one. Name the only other NFL team to win its last THREE games by double-digits.
Answer: New England.

And what happened to New England 4 weeks ago? That's right, they lost to Denver by double digits (in New England, I might add).

Okay, another question. How many teams, besides Denver and New England, have even managed to win TWO straight by 10+?
Answer: None.

How many teams, besides Denver and New England, have managed to win two straight games by even SEVEN points?
Answer: Minnesota, and that's it.

The moral of this story? While this certainly isn't the Denver offense we've all grown accustomed to, it hasn't made one bit of difference. No team other than Denver has been as consistantly dominant this season. Your other contenders are teams such as Indy (beat Tenn by 1 point on a last-second comeback), New England (lost to Denver, but has been rolling since), Philly (lost to Tampa Bay), San Diego (lost to KC), and Chicago (miracle MNF comeback against the team that just got rolled by Oakland). Would I love for Denver to hang 50 on someone at some point? Absolutely. But I'm not beating myself up over the fact that they haven't yet. Keep winning by 10, and I'll keep on managing to find something to smile about. :)

:thumbs: And I was worried that everyone had gone completely crazy. We do need more points, I saw the coaches trying to work on that in the first half against Cleveland with more passes and rollouts. What worried me was seeing those planned rollouts picked up so easily by the defense, Jake would go out there and there'd be a Brown in his face immediately. It looks like defenses are ready for what the Broncos try to do, Broncs need to change their looks a bit, the Bells need to pop a few early in the next game to take the pressure off the pass a bit as well.

[baja]

This is the way I see it too.

Mike Shanahan IS NOT going to bench Plummer on the basis of his poor play. Plummer has already turned the ball over like 13 times in just six games so far.

If Mike was going to bench Plummer he would have done it before.

The ONLY thing Plummer has going for him is Cutler inexperience and that Jake does have the respect and support of his team mates. His 2nd interception pretty much destroyed that great TD streak our defense had going so sooner or later with plays like that he IS going to alienate his team mates and most vocal supporters like Rod/Lynch.

When that happens, Shanahan will start Cutler because he can't afford to screw with team chemistry and send the wrong signal to his players by inserting a rookie QB while we're still winning and the team leaders believe in Jake. But I see that support eroding away when Jake does things like throw that int just seconds after Champ made that great defensive play in the red zone. That kind of crap raises questions among even the most senior and most patient players in the locker room.

Mike has his finger on the pulse of this team and when he suspects that Jake is losing command of the huddle and respect from his team mates, that's when Jake forces Mike to go to the rookie.

At least that's the way I see it.

Certainly Mike will take under consideration the locker room temperature relative to the QB position but Mike will let his mantra be the overriding point when it comes to who plays," I will always put the 11 players on the field that gives us the best chance to win".

[fontaine]

Certainly Mike will take under consideration the locker room temperature relative to the QB position but Mike will let his mantra be the overriding point when it comes to who plays," I will always put the 11 players on the field that gives us the best chance to win".

Is that why Ruben Droughns was languishing on the bench when Q was stinking it up?

Or why it took injuries etc for Elvis Dumvervil to be declared active and get his 5 sacks in two games? It must have been ST, yeah, Elvis doesn't play ST so he must not give us the best chance to win even though he's got 5 sacks in two games?

Or why Lenny Walls started ahead of Fox/Dwill even though he stunk and we finally had to drop in down the depth charts when he was giving up TDs?

Must have been also why there was no clear cut starter between Bell at the early part of the season?

Save the Party Line for someone else. Mike hates unkowns and Cutler is an unkown to a certain extent but to say Jake gives us a better chance to win after his crapy play so far is ludicrous.

[Taco John]

Anyone remember the play where Jake stepped up in the pocket, pump-faked, and then ran backwards out of the pocket before he got rid of it? I think he threw it away after that. My dad and I were dumbfounded.

[freak6]

the running game not being the same is why Jake sucks. We are 5th in the NFL in rushing."

The running game is not fooling the defense enough for the boots You mean like the duck he threw to Javon vs the Raiders, or the one where he hit Chavous right between the numbers in Stl? Or the one where he threw way over a WIDE OPEN TE, and nearly hit Russell for another idiotic INT.

How many rushing yards have been lost due to terrible Jake Plummer interceptions?

Look into your crystal ball That's not an answer. Why are you afraid to answer Garcia. You say the running game isn't what it used to be, I say Jake's int's have killed 4 drives that could've yeilded at least another 60 yards rushing putting Tatum as the #2 RB in the NFL. Don't be scared, don't be a coward. Answer.

How many points that the D has given up have been the direct result of Jake turnovers? 13 of the 43 the D has given up.

Jake isn't the only guy who has caused turnovers that have led to points.

Oh, so that makes it ok for him to throw idiotic interceptions, because Tatum has fumbled, it makes it excusable for Jake to implode. Truly a pathetic excuse Garcia. Very logical.

Your reasoning for keeping Jake in there is that "a rookie will struggle, pure and simple, even Elway struggled. Did Elway have the 5th leading running game, 4.7 YPC? Did Elway have the best D in the NFL? It was solid, but not like this. Did Elway have a HOF WR teamed with an ALL-Pro WR? Did Elway have Shanahan or Reeves calling the plays?

The evidence is overwhelming on rookie QB's. They struggle. The best you could hope for is a Rothlisberger type season...and there is no gurantee that will happen.

Jake Plummer is struggling. Jake Plummer is playing worse than I would ever expect a Rookie too. The best I could hope for is a Big Ben type season, well that is alot better than wtf Jake is doing. ERRRRRRRRR

You really got me there Garcia.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12409

Look at that guys rookie stats. I'd take those over Jake Plummer 2k6. And Jake is a freaking 10 year vet, a 4 year vet of our offense!!!

Unbelievable.

[gadlaw]

Is that why Ruben Droughns was languishing on the bench when Q was stinking it up?

Or why it took injuries etc for Elvis Dumvervil to be declared active and get his 5 sacks in two games? It must have been ST, yeah, Elvis doesn't play ST so he must not give us the best chance to win even though he's got 5 sacks in two games?

Or why Lenny Walls started ahead of Fox/Dwill even though he stunk and we finally had to drop in down the depth charts when he was giving up TDs?

Must have been also why there was no clear cut starter between Bell at the early part of the season?

Save the Party Line for someone else. Mike hates unkowns and Cutler is an unkown to a certain extent but to say Jake gives us a better chance to win after his crapy play so far is ludicrous.

I like the Party Line. There's no need to 'save it' for someone else since your opinion is as good as anyone else's opinion. Call me crazy but I think you're right Baja Fan and that Shanahan is going to put the team on the field that gives the team the best chance to win today. Shanahan sees the players every day and has a team of coaches as well to see what he doesn't see. Cutler isn't a complete unknown to Shanahan, he drafted him in the first place and he apparently thinks that throwing a complete rookie out there when his team is 5-1 isn't a good idea. Go figure. Why oh why won't Shanahan listen to all this forum wisdom is beyond me. :notworthy

[freak6]

Anyone remember the play where Jake stepped up in the pocket, pump-faked, and then ran backwards out of the pocket before he got rid of it? I think he threw it away after that. My dad and I were dumbfounded.

He scrambled for a first down on a play that sounds just like that. It was a smart play. I was high fiving.

[baja]

Is that why Ruben Droughns was languishing on the bench when Q was stinking it up?

Or why it took injuries etc for Elvis Dumvervil to be declared active and get his 5 sacks in two games? It must have been ST, yeah, Elvis doesn't play ST so he must not give us the best chance to win even though he's got 5 sacks in two games?

Or why Lenny Walls started ahead of Fox/Dwill even though he stunk and we finally had to drop in down the depth charts when he was giving up TDs?

Must have been also why there was no clear cut starter between Bell at the early part of the season?

Save the Party Line for someone else. Mike hates unkowns and Cutler is an unkown to a certain extent but to say Jake gives us a better chance to win after his crapy play so far is ludicrous.

HEY! You have read my posts every day for years now surely you know I am far from a party line guy. I was the second one after TJ to call for Cutler to start. I never said in the post you are referring to I agreed with Mike just that he will start who HE believes are the best 11 player and not the convoluted scenarios you proposed.

[BroncoInSkinland]

5-1 congrats to everyone. I hope you get what you need to be happy with our team, in the present and the future.

[Meck77]

I hope Jake continues to "Suck" and the Broncos keep on winning. These melt down threads make me laugh....I hope we "Struggle" all the way to home field advantage in the playoffs!


Go Broncos!

[orange 4 life]

I hope Jake continues to "Suck" and the Broncos keep on winning. These melt down threads make me laugh....I hope we "Struggle" all the way to home field advantage in the playoffs!


Go Broncos!

good to see not everyone has lost their fvkkkin mind.

its so utterly pathetic reading all this crap on the front page that im just gonna go to another board for awhile.
all this is anymore is irritating.

go broncos indeed.

we're 5-1, and we're winning games by double digit scores.
i dont care if its 10-0 or 30-20, im gonna be happy either way, and frankly, 10-0 is more encouraging since a lights out defense is what wins championships.

whatever.
we're 5-1, but the sky is falling and we should put in a rookie qb.
yeah, okay guys :thumbsup: great idea.

here's to everyone else that is just enjoying being in 1st place and looking forward to sundays big game.
kudo's to you.

jake

[-Slap-]

Plummer sucks rat****.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

good to see not everyone has lost their fvkkkin mind.
its so utterly pathetic reading all this crap on the front page that im just gonna go to another board for awhile.

Don't let the door hit you in your ass on the way out, say hi to Alec.

[freak6]

im gonna be happy either way, and frankly, 10-0 is more encouraging since a lights out defense is what wins championships.


We gave up 24 points to the Packers in SB 32. That defense is the first to ever win a Super Bowl while being last in the NFL in Yards Per Carry given up.

The next years defense was awful against the pass, but top 5 vs the run.

But since you are so sure that a 10-0 wins are more encouraging that 30-20 wins, tell us what happened to the Broncos the last time they led the NFL in points given up and went to the Super Bowl?

[kamakazi_kal]

i think we could get the same production (17pts per game) with cutler in the line up ............. im tired of watching jake lob the ball up for grabs, put a little frickn heat on the ball plummer, if not for our WR's out fighting DB's for the ball this last sunday plummer may have had 5 picks and at least 2 were just plain dropped by the browns......... i would be happy just to see jake throw the damn ball away when he gets in trouble

dude has as many ints. (7) through 6 games as he did all last year and i can see another jake playoff implosion in our future

like i said in another thread i wouldnt at all be suprised to see pro bowl jake show his head this week, dude just folds up againt teams we should be running over and shows up for games he should struggle

[Taco John]

its so utterly pathetic reading all this crap on the front page that im just gonna go to another board for awhile.
all this is anymore is irritating.

go broncos indeed.




Good luck finding a Broncos board that isn't talking about benching Plummer.

That's just the reality of playing bad. When you drag your team down, people want to bench you. Thankfully, our team is good enough to absorb Plummer's poor play and manage wins out of it. For that, I'm extremely thrilled and optimistic for our long term chances. But there's no point in keeping a player who isn't performing in a starting role when we've got the future of our team ready to roll.

[ludo21]

I hope Jake continues to "Suck" and the Broncos keep on winning. These melt down threads make me laugh....I hope we "Struggle" all the way to home field advantage in the playoffs!


Go Broncos!



:thumbs: !Booya!

Agreed.

And i agree with TJ here O4L, good luck finding a board about NOT benching Plummer, he is playing horrid, and it is worth discussing.

But as long as he keeps making enough plays to win games for us when it counts, ill ride Jake till he is benched.

[watermock]

Are you completely blind Orange 4 Life?

Your like the woman that claims that her car has been hit by a meteor a second time and says it straight faced.

Your more than welcome to try to find Jake's passing rating on NFL.com's stat board without actually pulling up his actual player page.

He had a 51.8 rating Sunday. That isn't hating, it's stone cold FACT.

He has a 60.4 rating.

You could see Shanahan seething with a fake smile today. So whatever. Jay fought thru the SEC for 4 years. Shanahan said it's now on a week to week thing.

[watermock]

Meck, your smart enough to see Jake playing horrific.

Jake is 4-7 ints. 60.4. It's not imaginary bashing. We are on a pace to make the 2000 Ravens look like a juggernaut. Opposing teams best friend is our QB.

We had Cleveland at home.

[rbackfactory80]

Why don't you take me on? Can any of you? I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to debate Jake vs Jay. But SRO and the rest of you have nothing to base you argument on, so you end up calling me a meanie for taking apart ignorant BS excuses that people keep vomitting up.

Dude ease up. You are acting like a complete tool on every thread with the same rant. I think we all know where you stand. You live in San Diego and are this angry. Take a walk over to Gaslamp, have a couple of beers and Chill the F*** out, and get over the obsession you have for a Rookie QB that has never taken a snap. Its one thing to want Cutler in and another to treat any one with another opinion like idiots. And you are the " Democrat" more like a Dicktater to me, if you know what I am saying.

[rbackfactory80]

Why don't you take me on? Can any of you? I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to debate Jake vs Jay. But SRO and the rest of you have nothing to base you argument on, so you end up calling me a meanie for taking apart ignorant BS excuses that people keep vomitting up.

Dude ease up. You are acting like a complete tool on every thread with the same rant. I think we all know where you stand. You live in San Diego and are this angry. Take a walk over to Gaslamp, have a couple of beers and Chill the F*** out, and get over the obsession you have for a Rookie QB that has never taken a snap. Its one thing to want Cutler in and another to treat any one with another opinion like idiots. And you are the " Democrat" more like a Dicktator to me, if you know what I am saying.

[Taco John]

I hope Jake continues to "Suck" and the Broncos keep on winning. These melt down threads make me laugh....I hope we "Struggle" all the way to home field advantage in the playoffs!


Go Broncos!




For my part, I hope Jake doesn't continue to suck, and actually pulls himself together. Also, I'd rather not see us struggle to HFA, but get there with some authority. It would be nice for our guys to be confident going into the playoffs, rather than expecting another standard Plummer playoff outing.

[dbfan4life]

I can see O4L's point. There are no less that 5 bench Jake related threads on the front page and ironically no thread police yelling about using existing threads to post in. Jake has played poorly, not debating that. I'm not calling for the rookie, yet. You just don't change QB's on a winning team, especially with a very tough stretch coming up. Cutler may be the second coming but I would rather not have to find out now.

[Odysseus]

I hope Jake continues to "Suck" and the Broncos keep on winning. These melt down threads make me laugh....I hope we "Struggle" all the way to home field advantage in the playoffs!


Go Broncos!

You....have the stamina of a Bull. I've been waiting all season for Plummer to wake up this whole season.

Jake's head is not into the game. Jake is a par golfer. He's not Tiger Woods but he can keep up. Jake is a gambler. Right now no matter how you phrase it Jake doesn't have anything staked. He doesn't see the wins. He doesn't have his focus.

Jake needs to get pissed and put some pop on the ball. Jake needs to look to his future away from the Broncos and put up some good stuff instead of barely backup material.

How much of this is Dinger's fault. Kubiak goes and Jake goes stupid? How does that happen?

Sports writers aren't asking the right questions. They are talking on silly crap that the Mane already ripped apart three years ago.

I hope Jake sucks LESS. I'd like to see a Jake Lite. All the sloppy duck passes and none of the avoidable picks.

GO BRONCOS!!!!

[Blueflame]

I can see O4L's point. There are no less that 5 bench Jake related threads on the front page and ironically no thread police yelling about using existing threads to post in. Jake has played poorly, not debating that. I'm not calling for the rookie, yet. You just don't change QB's on a winning team, especially with a very tough stretch coming up. Cutler may be the second coming but I would rather not have to find out now.

That's because Plummer's/the offense's performance is a topic people want to discuss. There are also five O-line-related threads on page one, primarily discussing Lepsis' injury and how to replace him while he undergoes surgery/rehab. Oh, and there are a couple of Merriman threads, too. Hey, look at the bright side... at least page one isn't inundated with Chefs threads today.... Ha!

[Meck77]

For my part, I hope Jake doesn't continue to suck, and actually pulls himself together. Also, I'd rather not see us struggle to HFA, but get there with some authority. It would be nice for our guys to be confident going into the playoffs, rather than expecting another standard Plummer playoff outing.

It was a joke bro. I just get a kick out of everyone tripping out. It's just funny to me to see everyone so fed up with Shanny for not putting in Cutler yet everyone was sucking shanny's left nut after he made the selection and he regained his "mastermind" status.

When Shanny fails to keep this team competitive anymore I say off with his head!

On deck the Colts! If we end up with one more point than they do I'll be a real happy Broncos fan!

I'd post on the other dozen or so Jake sucks thread but I have to go scoop horse shiat out of the barn. :~ohyah!:

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'd post on the other dozen or so Jake sucks thread but I have to go scoop horse shiat out of the barn. :~ohyah!:
That's good for you, builds character.








http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4723/08001chorseshap2.jpg

[troya900]

I stole this from a guy named SSOG:

Pop quiz... name the only NFL team to win its last 4 games by double-digits.
Answer: Denver.

Okay, that was an easy one. Name the only other NFL team to win its last THREE games by double-digits.
Answer: New England.

And what happened to New England 4 weeks ago? That's right, they lost to Denver by double digits (in New England, I might add).

Okay, another question. How many teams, besides Denver and New England, have even managed to win TWO straight by 10+?
Answer: None.

How many teams, besides Denver and New England, have managed to win two straight games by even SEVEN points?
Answer: Minnesota, and that's it.

The moral of this story? While this certainly isn't the Denver offense we've all grown accustomed to, it hasn't made one bit of difference. No team other than Denver has been as consistantly dominant this season. Your other contenders are teams such as Indy (beat Tenn by 1 point on a last-second comeback), New England (lost to Denver, but has been rolling since), Philly (lost to Tampa Bay), San Diego (lost to KC), and Chicago (miracle MNF comeback against the team that just got rolled by Oakland). Would I love for Denver to hang 50 on someone at some point? Absolutely. But I'm not beating myself up over the fact that they haven't yet. Keep winning by 10, and I'll keep on managing to find something to smile about. :)


This isn't right Chicago has won by more than 10 points in 2 straight games twice. Would have been five straight if they beat Minnesota by more than 3 points.

Edit: San Diego also did it twice. Seems like you pulled something from someone who doesn't have very good recollection of facts.

[orangenblue]

I hope Jake continues to "Suck" and the Broncos keep on winning. These melt down threads make me laugh....I hope we "Struggle" all the way to home field advantage in the playoffs!


Go Broncos!

We play Indy, SD, KC, and SEA, next. Trust me, Jake is a mere open sore right now. He's going to turn into a gash, and the blood is going to flow like a river. It's going to be hard to stop the bleeding.

He just crapped his pants against the Browns. Randy Moss couldn't even make him look good. I literally cannot believe he is an NFL QB.

[Cito Pelon]

You know what, even if it meant the Broncos would lose a couple of games, it might not be a bad thing because the Broncos have stocked up on some wins so far. And the way the defense is playing, they can win games without the offense.

The defense and running game can get this team to the playoffs. By then Cutler could have enough starts to give the team something come playoff time.

That's too much of a "maybe" for me. If Shanny wants to do it and it's handled smoothly, then it's ok with me. I'm not advocating it though. Too risky. Alfred Williams has a talk show here in Denver and he was saying the vets absolutely hated it when Shanny dumped Brister for Griese back in '99. I really don't think the locker room wants Jay in. They have a known commodity with Jake, they've won with him many, many times. These guys have seen many QB's struggle at times on the other side of the ball, I don't think they're panicking. I think people need to just give it some time, the situation will sort itself out.

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . . . ..But I see that support eroding away when Jake does things like throw that int just seconds after Champ made that great defensive play in the red zone. That kind of crap raises questions among even the most senior and most patient players in the locker room.

Mike has his finger on the pulse of this team and when he suspects that Jake is losing command of the huddle and respect from his team mates, that's when Jake forces Mike to go to the rookie.

At least that's the way I see it.

I don't see how a few instances of poor QB play "raises questions among even the most senior and most patient players in the locker room." They've seen plenty of bad QB play before, and Jake isn't that horrible despite what we see here on this board.

[Garcia Bronco]

Look, McNabb is as much a winner as John Elway was before two Super Bowl wins. He's a good quarterback, not a great quarterback - yet or ever. At this point Elway had taken the team on his back to Super Bowl loses and was 'never won the big one' Elway by the media. Before the Super Bowl against Green Bay I remember them asking Elway and everyone else on the team if they thought that Elway could make it into the Hall of Fame without winning the Super Bowl cause nobody thought he'd win one. McNabb doesn't get that qualifier by the media. So I'll always diss on every 'greatest thing since sliced bread' quarterback who hasn't won a Super Bowl and who doesn't get the same treatment that Elway got when he was playing. Today over at NFL.com Shannon Sharpe writes that McNabb's turnovers were too much for his team to overcome. The point being that even the great McNabb that so many people are offended that I mentioned in the same breath with Vick loses games due to his own mistakes. If it was Plummer you'd be calling for his head like you're doing now. NcNabb's team lost, Plummer's team won. And as far as Plummer taking the team to the Conference Championship I can't understand how so many of you can't seem to remember that Plummer has done well so hey, I'll mention it as evidence of Plummer being the best quarterback that Shanny has with the best chance of winning right now. And in losing that game I saw the whole team lose it, not just Plummer. So I assume when you say 'classic' you mean too complicated of a train of thought.

And you're right, Plummer doesn't have anything on McNabb except a better team. But it's a team sport, not Battle of the Network Stars. The coaches think Plummer is the starter and that seems about right. I understand and I agree that it's like watching the Chicago Bears instead of the Denver Broncos out there. It's frustrating and not what I'm used to seeing but dropping Cutway in there right now isn't the answer, you don't change the engine when all that's wrong is underinflated tires.


Awesome post

[Cito Pelon]

I don't know if I want Jake benched or not but we won't beat the Colts if he plays like he did yesterday.

I don't think we would beat them with Cutler either, but I keep asking myself if the 10 year vet keeps making rookie mistakes, why not play the rookie who has a bigger up side?

It's the "we're 5-1, why knock the train off the rails" crowd vs. the "risk knocking the train off the rails" crowd.

[Cito Pelon]

Is that why Ruben Droughns was languishing on the bench when Q was stinking it up?

Or why it took injuries etc for Elvis Dumvervil to be declared active and get his 5 sacks in two games? It must have been ST, yeah, Elvis doesn't play ST so he must not give us the best chance to win even though he's got 5 sacks in two games?

Or why Lenny Walls started ahead of Fox/Dwill even though he stunk and we finally had to drop in down the depth charts when he was giving up TDs?

Must have been also why there was no clear cut starter between Bell at the early part of the season?

Save the Party Line for someone else. Mike hates unkowns and Cutler is an unkown to a certain extent but to say Jake gives us a better chance to win after his crapy play so far is ludicrous.

Now that was pretty good. Except it isn't ludicrous to say Jake gives the team the best chance to win. It's playing the odds.

[freak6]

It's the "we're 5-1, why knock the train off the rails" crowd vs. the "risk knocking the train off the rails" crowd.

Starting Jake Plummer is just as much of a risk. Do you people even watch the games?

It's the "we're 5-1, yay, Casey Jones is driving this train...high on cocaine!!!" vs the "We need to replace Casey Jones now to avoid the January train crash"

But, I guess all you Plummer homers are happy with this. <img src="http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/31-86/31-86264-P.jpg">

[ludo21]

a red x?

[Garcia Bronco]

Starting Jake Plummer is just as much of a risk. Do you people even watch the games?

It's the "we're 5-1, yay, Casey Jones is driving this train...high on cocaine!!!" vs the "We need to replace Casey Jones now to avoid the January train crash"

But, I guess all you Plummer homers are happy with this. <img src="http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/31-86/31-86264-P.jpg">

Hehe

[ludo21]

im sure happy with Division Champs and HVA.

???

So we sucked when it counted, it was a huge team loss.

[freak6]

im sure happy with Division Champs and HVA.

???

So we sucked when it counted, it was a huge team loss.

Oh, we had HVA?

Anyway, it was a team loss. But Jake failed when we needed him most. Down 10, and Simms is telling everyone we need to be careful right here.

http://www.cherokeeflyer.com/downloads/affcgfirstint.wmv

He has since gotten only worse than really imaginable.

[ZONA]

This is the way I see it too.

Mike Shanahan IS NOT going to bench Plummer on the basis of his poor play. Plummer has already turned the ball over like 13 times in just six games so far.

If Mike was going to bench Plummer he would have done it before.

The ONLY thing Plummer has going for him is Cutler inexperience and that Jake does have the respect and support of his team mates. His 2nd interception pretty much destroyed that great TD streak our defense had going so sooner or later with plays like that he IS going to alienate his team mates and most vocal supporters like Rod/Lynch.

When that happens, Shanahan will start Cutler because he can't afford to screw with team chemistry and send the wrong signal to his players by inserting a rookie QB while we're still winning and the team leaders believe in Jake. But I see that support eroding away when Jake does things like throw that int just seconds after Champ made that great defensive play in the red zone. That kind of crap raises questions among even the most senior and most patient players in the locker room.

Mike has his finger on the pulse of this team and when he suspects that Jake is losing command of the huddle and respect from his team mates, that's when Jake forces Mike to go to the rookie.

At least that's the way I see it.


I don't see it that way. I would say if the team keeps winning, you won't see the vets gripe about much at all. They'll just keep saying the most important stat of all is that Jake keeps winning. Bottom line, if we keep winning, Jake will keep starting. Period.

[ludo21]

my bad. Colts did ;D

But in essence, we had it since all games were at home.

[errand]

Well who really cares that the guy is completing 52% of his passes, and is on pace to throw 18 ints with only 10 TDs and only 2600 yards? It's about the wins isn't it?

Why not? Afterall, we won a Super bowl with a QB putting up wimpy stats like 12-23 for 123 yards 0 td's 1 int.

30 years from now nobody will care that Elway put up wimpy numbers.....all he has to do is show them the ring.

[errand]

good to see not everyone has lost their fvkkkin mind.

its so utterly pathetic reading all this crap on the front page that im just gonna go to another board for awhile.
all this is anymore is irritating.

go broncos indeed.

we're 5-1, and we're winning games by double digit scores.
i dont care if its 10-0 or 30-20, im gonna be happy either way, and frankly, 10-0 is more encouraging since a lights out defense is what wins championships.

whatever.
we're 5-1, but the sky is falling and we should put in a rookie qb.
yeah, okay guys :thumbsup: great idea.

here's to everyone else that is just enjoying being in 1st place and looking forward to sundays big game.
kudo's to you.

jake

I recall the Cowboys winning a playoff game 5-0 over the Detroit Lions in '70 or '71. I wonder how many people were bitching about it after it was over?

[errand]

We gave up 24 points to the Packers in SB 32. That defense is the first to ever win a Super Bowl while being last in the NFL in Yards Per Carry given up.

The next years defense was awful against the pass, but top 5 vs the run.

But since you are so sure that a 10-0 wins are more encouraging that 30-20 wins, tell us what happened to the Broncos the last time they led the NFL in points given up and went to the Super Bowl?

Yeah they got creamed by the 49ers...55-10.

So tell us Freak, did you blast Dan for starting Elway in that game (3 ints, his best pass completion was 28 yard shovel pass, and his first pass was a laser intot urf 10 yards shy of Mark Jackson)...were you calling for Kubiak to save the day?

BTW, the last time the Broncos led the NFL in scoring, they got wasted by the Raiders 42-24 in aplayoff game...so again what's your point?

[-Slap-]

I think to myself, what could be more absurd than people continuing to defend Jake Plummer?

Then I see Errand decided the time was ripe to make this another Elway hate thread.

[Cito Pelon]

Starting Jake Plummer is just as much of a risk. Do you people even watch the games?

It's the "we're 5-1, yay, Casey Jones is driving this train...high on cocaine!!!" vs the "We need to replace Casey Jones now to avoid the January train crash"

But, I guess all you Plummer homers are happy with this. <img src="http://www.fansedge.com/Images/Product/31-86/31-86264-P.jpg">

I watch the games, but I don't freak out at 5-1 with 10 games left.

[errand]

I think to myself, what could be more absurd than people continuing to defend Jake Plummer?

Then I see Errand decided the time was ripe to make this another Elway hate thread.

Gee, you mean I'm not a racist? That's your go to move from what I've heard from alot of posters on here.

I love the Broncos...not any one player. You have a man crush on John, and while I'm sure he'd be flattered...I doubt he'd like you more than your dog did.

It's not an Elway hate thread clown...I'm just giving numerous occasions when the NFL's best QB ever didn't live up to the hype either. Unlike you, I know Elway was human and prone to make mistakes....you see him as a God who never played poorly, or cost the Broncos a game.

Sorry to have to wake you up from fantasy land...but John Elway threw alot of INT's (some as lame) like Jake has as a Bronco. He also won alot games as a Bronco despite that fact....just like Jake has.

John Elway cost us the '91 AFC title game with a stupid int into the breadbasket of a Bills LB....cost us the game, but it didn't make me scream for Kubiak like you dolts are clamoring for Cutler.

When the clock strikes :00, as long as our side of the scoreboard has 1 more pint than the other team's side...I'm smiling. You can cry all you want....it's a free country.

[Garcia Bronco]

Gee, you mean I'm not a racist? That's your go to move from what I've heard from alot of posters on here.

I love the Broncos...not any one player. You have a man crush on John, and while I'm sure he'd be flattered...I doubt he'd like you more than your dog did.

It's not an Elway hate thread clown...I'm just giving numerous occasions when the NFL's best QB ever didn't live up to the hype either. Unlike you, I know Elway was human and prone to make mistakes....you see him as a God who never played poorly, or cost the Broncos a game.

Sorry to have to wake you up from fantasy land...but John Elway threw alot of INT's (some as lame) like Jake has as a Bronco. He also won alot games as a Bronco despite that fact....just like Jake has.

John Elway cost us the '91 AFC title game with a stupid int into the breadbasket of a Bills LB....cost us the game, but it didn't make me scream for Kubiak like you dolts are clamoring for Cutler.

When the clock strikes :00, as long as our side of the scoreboard has 1 more pint than the other team's side...I'm smiling. You can cry all you want....it's a free country.

haha....awesome

[-Slap-]

Gee, you mean I'm not a racist? That's your go to move from what I've heard from alot of posters on here.

I love the Broncos...not any one player. You have a man crush on John, and while I'm sure he'd be flattered...I doubt he'd like you more than your dog did.

It's not an Elway hate thread clown...I'm just giving numerous occasions when the NFL's best QB ever didn't live up to the hype either. Unlike you, I know Elway was human and prone to make mistakes....you see him as a God who never played poorly, or cost the Broncos a game.

Sorry to have to wake you up from fantasy land...but John Elway threw alot of INT's (some as lame) like Jake has as a Bronco. He also won alot games as a Bronco despite that fact....just like Jake has.

John Elway cost us the '91 AFC title game with a stupid int into the breadbasket of a Bills LB....cost us the game, but it didn't make me scream for Kubiak like you dolts are clamoring for Cutler.

When the clock strikes :00, as long as our side of the scoreboard has 1 more pint than the other team's side...I'm smiling. You can cry all you want....it's a free country.

You're a blatant racist and an overall idiot.

That's really not relevant to your constant Elway bashing, though. I'm not really sure what motivates that, but I have met some so-called Bronco fans who love to slander the man who carried the franchise on his back for the first half of his career.

Doesn't really bother me because its just another fool checking himself and sparing me the trouble.

In your case, I think you believe it makes you look like some kind of hardass. I guess that's why you never have anything good to say about Taco John, either.

My favorite post of yours was when you said six year olds shouldn't get participation trophies in little league because it would make them grow up queer or something. You are grotesquely stupid, Errand. Make no mistake about that.

[Garcia Bronco]

My favorite post of yours was when you said six year olds shouldn't get participation trophies in little league because it would make them grow up queer or something. You are grotesquely stupid, Errand. Make no mistake about that.

you might be right...but not today.