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Traveler
10-19-2006, 10:41 AM
Long read...

Still Dancing to Ollie's Tune
By Greg Grandin
TomDispatch.com

Tuesday 17 October 2006

Will the Democrats blow it again as they did in 1986?
A Republican Party on the ropes, bloodied by a mid-second-term scandal; a resurrected Democratic opposition, sure it can capitalize on public outrage to prove that it is still, in the American heart of hearts, the majority party.

But before House Democrats start divvying up committee assignments and convening special investigations, they should consider that they've been here before, and things didn't turn out exactly the way they hoped.

It was twenty years ago this November 3rd - exactly one day after the Democrats regained control of the Senate after six years in the minority - that the Lebanese magazine Ash-Shiraa reported on the Reagan administration's secret, high-tech missile sale to Ayatollah Khomeini's Iran, which violated an arms embargo against that country and contradicted President Ronald Reagan's personal pledge never to deal with governments that sponsored terrorism.

Democrats couldn't believe their luck. After years of banging their heads on Reagan's popularity and failing to derail his legislative agenda, they had not only taken back the Senate, but follow-up investigations soon uncovered a scandal of epic proportions, arguably the most consequential in American history, one that seemed sure to disgrace every single constituency that had fueled the upstart conservative movement. The Reagan Revolution, it appeared, had finally been thrown into reverse.

The New York Times reported that the National Security Council was running an extensive "foreign policy initiative largely in private hands," made up of rogue intelligence agents, mercenaries, neoconservative intellectuals, Arab sheiks, drug runners, anticommunist businessmen, even the Moonies. Profits from the missile sale to Iran, brokered by a National Security Council staffer named Oliver North, went to the Nicaraguan Contras, breaking yet another law, this one banning military aid to the anti-Sandinista guerrillas.

The ultimate goal of this shadow government, said a congressional investigation, was to create a "worldwide private covert operation organization" whose "income-generating capacity came almost entirely from its access to U.S. government resources and connections" - either from trading arms to Iran or from contributions requested by administration officials. Joseph Coors and H. Ross Perot kicked in, as did the Sultan of Brunei, whose $10,000,000 gift, solicited by Assistant Secretary of State Elliot Abrams, went missing after it was deposited into the wrong Swiss bank account.

The Democrats, now the majority in both congressional chambers, gleefully convened multiple inquiries into the scandal. From May to August 1987, TV viewers tuned in to congressional hearings on the affair. They got a rare glimpse into the cabalistic world of spooks, bagmen, and mercenaries, with their code words, encryption machines, offshore holding companies, unregistered fleets of boats and planes, and furtive cash transfers. Fawn Hall, Oliver North's secret shredder, told of smuggling evidence out of the Old Executive Office Building in her boots, and lectured Representative Thomas Foley that "sometimes you have to go above the written law."

Foreign enemies were not the only targets set in North's crosshairs, as later investigations described what was in effect a covert operation run on domestic soil, with the White House mobilizing conservative grassroots organizations to plant disinformation in the press and harass legislators and reporters who opposed or criticized President Reagan's Contra policy.

Reagan's poll numbers plummeted and talk of impeachment was rampant. Democratics thought they had found in Iran-Contra a sequel to Watergate, another tutorial about the imperial presidency that would enable them to consolidate the power Congress had assumed over foreign policy in the 1970s.

But just a year after the hearings, Iran-Contra was a dead issue. When Congress released its final report on the matter in November 1988, Reagan breezily dismissed it. "They labored," he said, "and brought forth a mouse." Vice President George H.W. Bush was elected president that month, despite being implicated in the scandal.

Ollie's Song

How could the Democrats have failed to inflict serious damage on an administration that had sold sophisticated weaponry to a sworn enemy of the United States? How could they have botched the job of transforming a conspiracy of self-righteous renegades, many of whom not only admitted their crimes but unrepentantly declared themselves to be above the law, into a defense of constitutional checks and balances in the realm of foreign affairs?

One reason is that the congressional hearings they called backfired on them. In the early months of those hearings, Congress methodically gathered damning testimony and documentary evidence of what many believed amounted to treason by high-level administration officials, if not the President himself.

But then in marched Oliver North - the crisp Marine, with his hard-rock jaw and chest full of medals. Ronald Reagan may have once been an actor, but it was North's dramatic chops that rescued his presidency.

For six days, the Marine fended off the questions of politicians and their lawyers. His answers were contradictory and self-serving, but his performance was virtuoso. Many viewers viscerally connected with the loyalty and courage so artfully on display. "If the commander in chief tells this lieutenant colonel to go stand in the corner and stand on his head," North said, "I will do so." Never mind that, as Senator Daniel Inouye, a maimed WWII veteran, pointed out, the U.S. Military Code stipulates that only legal orders are to be followed. Ollie-mania swept the heartland and Hollywood. Even liberal TV producer Norman Lear admitted he couldn't "take [his] eyes off" the colonel.

North's luster may not have rubbed off on Reagan, but his standoff with Congress allowed the president's defenders to take control of the storyline, reducing the scandal's cacophony to the simple chords of patriotism and anticommunism. Conservative activist Richard Viguerie compared the hearings to a song: "Liberals are listening to the words, but the guy in the street hears the music. The music is about men and women who are prepared to die for their country."

At the heart of the Democrats disaster was their unwillingness ever to question North's militarism or Reagan's support for the Contras, whose human-rights atrocities were well-documented. Rather than attacking Reagan's restoration of anticommunism as the guiding principle of U.S. policy, they focused on procedure - such as the White House's failure to oversee the National Security Council - or on proving that top officials had prior knowledge of the crimes.

Much as Hillary Clinton and John Kerry today focus on this administration's "incompetence" and "mishandling" of the Iraq War, Democrats twenty years ago were scathing in their descriptions of an administration steeped in "confusion, secrecy and deception" as well as of the White House's "pervasive dishonesty" and "disarray." But as today, so then, these criticisms seemed like mere cavils when the security of the United States - of the "Free World" - was at stake.

In 1988, when Democratic presidential candidate Michael Dukakis, in his first debate with Vice President Bush, brought up the scandal, Bush responded that he would take "all the blame" for Iran-Contra if he got "half the credit for all the good things that have happened in world peace since Ronald Reagan and I took over." Dukakis quietly took the deal, never again raising the issue. So, when Ollie North jibed that Libya's Muammar Qaddafi endorsed Dukakis, there was little left for the Massachusetts governor to do but don a helmet, jump in a tank, and look famously foolish.

Along with political timidity, there was another factor that led to the Democratic collapse on Iran-Contra - careerism. Far more so than today, Washington was then a clubby, small, inbred world. One of the reasons why the anger over George H.W. Bush's Christmas Eve 1992 pardon of six indicted Iran-Contra figures was so short-lived is that the move was quietly blessed by ranking Congressional Democrats, including Wisconsin Representative Les Aspin, who huffed and puffed but let the matter die. Aspin, who had supported aid to the Contras, was later tapped by Bill Clinton to be Secretary of Defense, easily winning confirmation with significant Republican support.

Careerism naturally leads to back-room deals. There were rumors that Democratic House Majority Leader Tip O'Neill, who unlike Aspin was an outspoken critic of Contra funding, toned down his opposition as a quid pro quo to secure federal funds for Boston's Big Dig construction project - another disaster from the 1980s that we are still living with.

Unleashing the Imperial Presidency

But if the Democrats failed to gain political traction with the scandal, or wring a parable out of it, others did far better. Dick Cheney today points to Iran-Contra not as a cautionary tale against unchecked executive power but as a blueprint for how to obtain it.

It turns out that it was Dick Cheney's current chief of staff David Addington - the man the press calls "Cheney's Cheney" for his defense of unchecked presidential power in matters of foreign policy - who, as a counsel to the Republicans serving on the congressional Iran-Contra committee, wrote the controversial 1988 "Minority Report" on the scandal.

At the time, the report, which condemned not the National Security Council for its secret dealings but Congress for its "legislative hostage taking," was considered out of the mainstream. Today, it reads like a run-of-the-mill Justice Department memo outlining the legal basis for any of the Bush Administration's wartime power grabs. It was this report that Cheney referenced when asked last December about his role in strengthening the executive branch. The report, he said, was "very good in laying out a robust view of the President's prerogatives" to wage war and defend national security.

Cheney and Addington are not the only veterans of the scandal to have found a home in the current White House. Other Iran-Contra notables who have resurfaced in recent years include Elliot Abrams, John Bolton, Otto Reich, John Negroponte, John Poindexter, neoconservative Michael Ledeen, and even Manucher Ghorbanifar, the Iranian arms dealer who brokered one of the first missile sales to the Khomeini regime.

This recycling of Iran-Contra personnel to fight the War on Terror points to the most important reason it has been so difficult to transform the scandal into a parable: Iran-Contra wasn't just a crime and a cover-up - as Watergate was - or a misdemeanor like Monica-Gate. It was rather the first battle in the neoconservative campaign against Congress and in defense of the imperial presidency.

Iran-Contra field-tested many of the tactics used by the Bush administration to build support for the invasion of Iraq by manipulating intelligence, spinning public opinion, and riding roughshod over experts in the CIA and the State Department who counseled restraint. While the original Iran-Contra battle might be termed a draw - the eleven convicted conspirators won on appeal or were pardoned by George H.W. Bush - the backlash has become the establishment.

That 80s Show

Today, with that establishment shackled to the most ruinous war in recent U.S. history, the Republicans, taking a page out of Oliver North's songbook, decided that the best defense was to go on the offensive, to turn the upcoming midterm vote into a debate on Iraq and national security. Up until the eve of the recent Foley IM-sex scandal, the strategy seemed like it just might be working once again. The Democrats were losing momentum in the run-up to next month's elections, unanimously consenting to a distended military budget, and watching silently as Republicans, with significant Democratic support, revoked habeas corpus and gave the President the right to torture at will.

Foley-gate, along with a cascade of other scandals, controversies, and bad war news, may indeed now give the Democrats the House, and perhaps even the Senate. But already there are reports that, if they do take over Congress, their agenda will have a remarkably 1986-ish look to it: hearings and calls for more congressional "oversight" of foreign policy that leave uncontested the crusading premises driving the President's extremist foreign policy.

If the Democratic Party wants to halt, or even reverse, its long decline and avoid yet again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, it will need to do more than investigate the six-year reign of corruption, incompetence, and arrogance presided over by Cheney and company. Progressive politicians who protest the war in Iraq will have to do more than criticize the way it has been fought or demand to have more of a say in how it is waged. They must challenge the militarism that justified the invasion and that has made war the option of first resort for too many of our foreign-policy makers. Otherwise, no matter how many tanks they drive or veterans they nominate - or congressional seats they pick up - the Democrats will always be dancing to Ollie's tune.

http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=130406_

Rohirrim
10-19-2006, 11:10 AM
Very good article. Thanks, Papi. That's a lot to chew on. I'll have to let that sink in for a while.

SPfloppy
10-19-2006, 01:27 PM
Well done.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-19-2006, 03:31 PM
What worries me is, even if the Dems bring their 'A' game, they still have to contend with this:

http://homepage.mac.com/rcareaga/diebold/little_die/diebold_23a.jpg

Nothing has changed since '04 with respect to the electronic voting machines and who owns/controls them.

elsid13
10-19-2006, 03:41 PM
LABF

I really think that the House and Senate are going to turn. Both major defeats for the WH. Seeing a lot of ads, where Republicans are running away as fast as the can for W. Not a good sign for the seating party in power.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-19-2006, 03:58 PM
LABF

I really think that the House and Senate are going to turn. Both major defeats for the WH. Seeing a lot of ads, where Republicans are running away as fast as the can for W. Not a good sign for the seating party in power.

I would agree with you if the playing field were level, i.e., if the rethugs didn't own/control the voting machines and the corporate media.

Let's hope you're right, in any event.

Rohirrim
10-19-2006, 04:02 PM
What worries me is that Karl Rove and Bush say they aren't worried at all. They are very confident that the GOP will retain both houses of Congress. Rove's not even doing anything out of the ordinary. Basically, he's walking around like a guy who knows the fix is in.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-19-2006, 04:27 PM
What worries me is that Karl Rove and Bush say they aren't worried at all. They are very confident that the GOP will retain both houses of Congress. Rove's not even doing anything out of the ordinary. Basically, he's walking around like a guy who knows the fix is in.

Bingo.

I'm constantly dumfounded by the fact that people are carrying on as though the issues with the voting machines that plagued the '04 elections just magically disappeared when, in fact, nothing has changed (in some cases, things have gotten worse.)

ClevelandBronco
10-19-2006, 10:45 PM
I would agree with you if the playing field were level, i.e., if the rethugs didn't own/control the voting machines and the corporate media.

Let's hope you're right, in any event.

Will you finally come out of the closet and admit that you're a K.C. fan?

"They didn't beat us. It was the refs. They screwed us."

Your posts read like Sunday night on the Planet.

My guess is that the near left will take the House. I wouldn't be surprised if they take the Senate as well.

Enjoy them. It's not like my guys have done anything important with them except to push through a couple of key appointments to the SCOTUS.

A little gridlock would be a good thing from my point of view.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-20-2006, 05:44 AM
"They didn't beat us. It was the refs. They screwed us."



You mean you're just now learning about all those "irregularities" involving those GOP-owned/controlled electronic voting machines?

Apparently news travels slowly to your neck of the woods.

ClevelandBronco
10-20-2006, 08:37 AM
You mean you're just now learning about all those "irregularities" involving those GOP-owned/controlled electronic voting machines?

Apparently news travels slowly to your neck of the woods.

"There's no way the league will allow us to win. They hate us."

clarker
10-20-2006, 09:39 AM
If the Dems blow this election they are officially the Buffalo Bills of politics.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-20-2006, 04:24 PM
"There's no way the league will allow us to win. They hate us."

"We're at war with Eurasia. We've always been at war with Eurasia."

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-20-2006, 04:26 PM
If the Dems blow this election they are officially the Buffalo Bills of politics.

If the repigs retain control of Congress, it won't be because the Dems "blew" anything - it will be because the fix was in (just like every election since 2000.)

ClevelandBronco
10-21-2006, 01:13 AM
If the repigs retain control of Congress, it won't be because the Dems "blew" anything - it will be because the fix was in (just like every election since 2000.)

"There's no way that call shouldn't be overturned. You can bet this **** would never happen to Indy."

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-21-2006, 02:13 AM
"There's no way that call shouldn't be overturned. You can bet this **** would never happen to Indy."

Yeah, what was I thinking?

Yours is a perfect analogy.

There was nothing more consequential than the outcome of a football game riding on those elections.

That's the ticket.

And, anyhow, it was just a coincidence that the man responsible for supervising the casting, counting, and certification of the votes in Ohio in '04 was also the chairman of his state's Bush/Cheney campaign.

It was just a coincidence that all four manufacturers of the electronic voting machines used in the election were republicans with ties to the Bush WH (and just a coincidence that the chairman of Diebold made a promise to deliver his state's electoral votes to the disaster monkey.)

It was just a coincidence that voters in Democratic districts in OH had to wait in line for 12 hours or longer and encountered inadequately-equipped facilities while no such difficulties occurred in GOP strongholds.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg...

Traveler
10-24-2006, 10:42 AM
My fears are starting to play out. Dem (pun intended) Dumbasses!

How Democrats Might Blow It
By Robert Parry
Consortium News

Tuesday 24 October 2006

As Democrats go through their biennial rite of premature victory celebrations, they are inviting defeat again by obsessing on polls about how many congressional seats are "in play" rather than on explaining to the American people what a Republican victory on Nov. 7 would mean to the nation.

In the last three elections, George W. Bush has claimed mandates for his policies even when there were questions about the legitimacy of Republican victories. In Election 2000, Bush brushed aside the fact that he lost the popular vote to Al Gore and pressed ahead with a right-wing agenda.

The Republican congressional victories in Election 2002 convinced Bush that the voters were behind his plans for "preemptive" wars. He called Election 2004 his "accountability moment," ratifying both his invasion of Iraq and his expansion of executive powers.

So, there should be little illusion how Bush would interpret a Republican upset victory on Nov. 7. It would be taken as a public embrace of his authoritarian vision for America's future and as an endorsement of the neoconservative commitment to wage "World War III" against Islamic militants around the world.

If the GOP keeps control of Congress, Bush would be strongly tempted to double up on his bloody wager in Iraq with military attacks on Iran and Syria. That expanded war would guarantee reprisals by radicalized Muslims around the world and thus draw the United States into a virtually endless conflict.

At home, the consequences of indefinite war would be fatal, too, to the already wounded American democratic Republic. Bush would translate a GOP victory into public acceptance of his de facto elimination of key constitutional rights and his creation of an imperial presidency.

Though the major U.S. news outlets have paid scant attention - and the Democrats have mostly ducked the issue - Bush already has put in place the framework for a modern-day totalitarian state.

Operating under Bush's assertion of "plenary" - or unlimited - presidential authority, his administration has devised a system of electronic eavesdropping that can pry into the private lives of Americans; has set up arrangements for detention camps; and has secured from Congress the power to detain American citizens for allegedly aiding U.S. enemies.

Indeed, the new Military Commissions Act of 2006, enacted on Oct. 17, establishes what amounts to a parallel legal system under Bush's control that permits the indefinite jailing of both citizens and non-citizens who are deemed enemies of the state.

The law specifically strips non-U.S. citizens of habeas corpus - the right to a fair trial - but American citizens caught up in Bush's legal system also would be denied the right to challenge their incarceration, effectively eliminating their habeas corpus rights, too.

Under the new law, Bush could put "any person" into the military tribunal process for allegedly aiding America's enemies and the detainee would be barred from filing any motions "whatsoever" to the civilian courts.

So, while the New York Times has assured Americans that they would still possess their habeas corpus rights, that amounts to semantics since the law's court-stripping provision means that American citizens might technically possess their rights but couldn't exercise them.

Bush's parallel legal system also sharply curtails the rights of detainees when they are put on trial before a military tribunal, permitting secret evidence and even coerced testimony to be used against them. [For details, see Consortiumnews.com's "Who Is ‘Any Person' in Tribunal Law."]

Though few Americans understand the full scope of the law's provisions - or what "World War III" against many of the world's one billion Muslims would entail - Bush would surely interpret a Republican congressional victory as a personal mandate to proceed in those directions.

Court Prospects

If Republicans keep control of the House and Senate, the chances of the U.S. Supreme Court striking down the Military Commissions Act also would be reduced. The court, which rebuffed Bush's earlier administrative version on a 5-4 vote, would weigh both the congressional approval and the voters' acquiescence in judging the law's legality.

While the 5-4 majority critical of the tribunals might hold through a second round of judicial review, Election 2006 might influence the decision of some justices who are always more political than they acknowledge.

Bush's assertion of unfettered presidential powers would stand even a better chance if one of the majority justices leaves the bench due to age or illness. Continued Republican control of the Senate probably would enable Bush to appoint a justice who would bend to Bush's theory of his authority.

Already Bush holds the upper hand if a vacancy occurs among the five justices who struck down the earlier version of the tribunals. Given the right-wing makeup of the U.S. Court of Appeals in the District of Columbia, the new military commissions are likely to pass muster there (as they did in their earlier form).

Thus, an absolute majority of the U.S. Supreme Court would be needed for reversal, and the four pro-Bush justices - John Roberts, Samuel Alito, Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas - would be enough to save the law on a tie vote.

Considering everything that's at stake, many Democrats appear to be devoting way too much energy to their anticipation of victory - and to an obsession with polls about which seats are "in play" - rather than in sealing the deal with the voters.

"I've moved from optimistic to giddy," Gordon R. Fischer, a former chairman of the Iowa Democratic Party, told the New York Times.

"I know a lot of people are in somersault land," said Rep. Rahm Emanuel, D-Ill., and chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, although he didn't count himself among them.

Democrats also seem to be hoping for victory by default as Republicans sink under the weight of chaos in Iraq and corruption scandals on Capitol Hill.

"I think we have the best chance to take over simply because of the pileup of disasters," said Rep. Louise Slaughter, D-N.Y. [NYT, Oct. 22, 2006]

Granted, some Democrats have issued cautionary warnings against over-confidence and many remember their premature celebrations in 2004 when the early exit polls showed Sen. John Kerry winning the White House. Opinion polls two weeks before an election mean even less, especially given the GOP's reputation for hardball election tactics.

But there is a troubling sense of déjà vu as Democrats let Republicans raise alarms on the Right about the dangers of a Democratic victory, while Democrats let up on their warnings to liberals, independents and even constitutional conservatives about what a Republican victory would foreshadow.

If the last two weeks of Campaign 2006 are dominated by news of Democrats buying confetti and icing champagne - rather than on Bush's grim vision of endless war and elimination of constitutional rights - chances for a Republican comeback could grow exponentially.

Not only would Democrats and independents be less inspired to go to the polls but the Republican base could be galvanized by a desperate battle to protect President Bush. Already, right-wing radio stations, Web sites and TV commentators are hammering home the image of cocky Democrats high-fiving each other and making behind-the-scenes plans for a triumphant transition of power.

Nothing motivates the American Right more than the chance of forcing Democrats to choke on their confetti and to gag on their champagne.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/102306.html

Rohirrim
10-24-2006, 10:50 AM
Any Dems who are taking victory for granted right now are complete fools. I'm really surprised at how tame their ads have been. I know if I was doing them, it would be a friggin Carville moment.

Traveler
10-24-2006, 11:08 AM
Any Dems who are taking victory for granted right now are complete fools. I'm really surprised at how tame their ads have been. I know if I was doing them, it would be a friggin Carville moment.

Ro-

It's amazing to me how little I hear and see from Dems about this upcoming election. It's like they are afraid to say or do anything that might piss off the Republicans. A bunch of stupid, scared, weak-assed pussies!

They should be scorching this administration for all the crime and corruption of the last 5 years, yet you barely hear a whisper. Truly Fcuking amazing!

Rohirrim
10-24-2006, 11:39 AM
Ro-

It's amazing to me how little I hear and see from Dems about this upcoming election. It's like they are afraid to say or do anything that might piss off the Republicans. A bunch of stupid, scared, weak-assed pussies!

They should be scorching this administration for all the crime and corruption of the last 5 years, yet you barely hear a whisper. Truly Fcuking amazing!

Augustus kept Agrippa around because the people believed that as long as an honest republican like Agrippa was around, Augustus would not be able to seize imperial power. Of course, they were in it together and Augustus had long since grabbed supreme power. The Senate, and the rest of the government, was all for show. I sometimes think maybe the Dems serve that purpose now. They pretend to be the opposition party so the American people will think they're still living in a republic.

defenseman
10-24-2006, 12:02 PM
Augustus kept Agrippa around because the people believed that as long as an honest republican like Agrippa was around, Augustus would not be able to seize imperial power. Of course, they were in it together and Augustus had long since grabbed supreme power. The Senate, and the rest of the government, was all for show. I sometimes think maybe the Dems serve that purpose now. They pretend to be the opposition party so the American people will think they're still living in a republic.

Interesting. But what's most interesting to me is, the Dems will have gotten elected based on an "anti-republican" stance, not necessarily a "this is what I'll do for you instead of the other" stance. They certianly have no real "promises to break" now do they. In short, don't say a word and let the republicans shoot themselves in the foot. Backing into office w/o any real sort of agenda published is pretty sad indeed, on both sides. I can tell you for the most part what I believe will happen if they take the majority, but, I'd guess 80-90 % of americans can't. And they certianly will be surprised when their tax bills start coming in. I know, I know, just the rich will be taxed. Don't believe it for a second, mark my words all our taxes will go up, and charlie rangle will be laughing all the way to the bank. The repubs have really blown it this time.....dman

ScottXray
10-24-2006, 12:03 PM
Augustus kept Agrippa around because the people believed that as long as an honest republican like Agrippa was around, Augustus would not be able to seize imperial power. Of course, they were in it together and Augustus had long since grabbed supreme power. The Senate, and the rest of the government, was all for show. I sometimes think maybe the Dems serve that purpose now. They pretend to be the opposition party so the American people will think they're still living in a republic.

Not QUITE yet...however we are damn close.
The comments about the voting machines are true....and are my major worry....
If the Dems don't take at least the House then I'll know the fix was in. And the fact that Bush keeps stating that the Republicans will retain control of both houses, as if there wasn't an election even happening is a damning statement. It does indicate a fix.

W*GS
10-24-2006, 12:18 PM
Part of the reason the Dems are so afraid to go on the attack is because they're in it up to their necks, as deep as the GOP.

defenseman
10-24-2006, 12:26 PM
Not QUITE yet...however we are damn close.
The comments about the voting machines are true....and are my major worry....
If the Dems don't take at least the House then I'll know the fix was in. And the fact that Bush keeps stating that the Republicans will retain control of both houses, as if there wasn't an election even happening is a damning statement. It does indicate a fix.

You nor I , nor anyone else will know anything. Considering the crap that flew around after the last election, I'm thinking you are not only wrong, but, you'll need proof for your claim. If it didn't occur, how can there be proof? JUST because the "polls" show this or that doesn't mean that a huge republican turnout could not occur and turn the tables. You just never know, and there are a few races out there that the Dems are counting on, that are pretty damn close. Alot can happen in a couple of weeks...dman

defenseman
10-24-2006, 12:28 PM
Part of the reason the Dems are so afraid to go on the attack is because they're in it up to their necks, as deep as the GOP.

They both certianly go to the same tailor. I'm guessing they both attend the same "tactics" school in unison. Agreed...dman

defenseman
10-24-2006, 12:29 PM
Part of the reason the Dems are so afraid to go on the attack is because they're in it up to their necks, as deep as the GOP.

They both certianly go to the same tailor. I'm guessing they both attend the same "tactics" school in unison. Agreed...dman

*and if by chance the Repubs do maintain control, I can't wait for the finger pointing and investigations. Slim chance indeed, but, you never know...

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-24-2006, 05:35 PM
Augustus kept Agrippa around because the people believed that as long as an honest republican like Agrippa was around, Augustus would not be able to seize imperial power. Of course, they were in it together and Augustus had long since grabbed supreme power. The Senate, and the rest of the government, was all for show. I sometimes think maybe the Dems serve that purpose now. They pretend to be the opposition party so the American people will think they're still living in a republic.

The more I see of these spineless, ineffectual Dems, the more I'm inclined to the same conclusion.