Boy, that Matt Leinart sure looks like a terrible QB

[GonzoLays]

Where you at SoCal? Hilarious!

[Northman]

We took the wrong Qb Gonzo, didnt you get the memo? Denver has more talent than Az but if Cutler was starting we would be 1-4 right now.

[GonzoLays]

Leinart is anything but a "safe bet".

I still dont understand why everyone is infatuated with the guy. He's a mid to late 3rd round talent.

Hilarious!

And here was my response to SoCalBronco:

I'm still flabbergasted by that statement. How can a 6'5" 225 pound 63% pass completion 38tds/9ints two time national champion Heisman QB go in the third round?

You want height? He has it. You want accuracy? He has it. You want a winner? two national championships. You want a smart player? He scored a 35 on the wonderlic and audibled his own plays at USC. You want mobility? He rushed for six tds.

How about comparing his stats to Carson Palmer, another USC QB who played in the same system. He out passed Palmers best season at USC and threw for more tds in a year than Palmer did. And Carson Palmer is one of the best young qbs in the league and former number one pick.

Wow. You have no idea what you are talking about.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1036948&highlight=Chow#post1036948

Once again, where you at SoCal?

[Arkansas Bronco]

A blind monkey could put up numbers with Boldin and Fitz. He has looked good so far lets see where it goes before we realy start to analize him.

[Jason in LA]

I'm glad the Raiders didn't pick that guy. Well, if they did, he'd probably suck with the players they would have around him.

[Kaylore]

Gonzo beat me to it. I'm working on a write up right now that examines the myth that starting talented super-star rookies early can hurt their development. It's total crap. Gradkowski, Leinert, Young. All started early and all are doing very well. They make mistakes but they are learning as they go. It's total garbage and I hope that SoCal and the others who claim this to be true come in here to admit they were wrong.

[JAPS]

We took the wrong Qb Gonzo, didnt you get the memo? Denver has more talent than Az but if Cutler was starting we would be 1-4 right now.

Alright, you been trumpeting your band for quite a while but please remember we are 4-1. Thats the difference between us and also ranoff's like AZ. Oh and I'm a Jake homer. Take it as you like

[Northman]

A blind monkey could put up numbers with Boldin and Fitz. He has looked good so far lets see where it goes before we realy start to analize him.

I dont think Fitz is playing in this game is he? Isnt he hurt right now?

[GonzoLays]

A blind monkey could put up numbers with Boldin and Fitz. He has looked good so far lets see where it goes before we realy start to analize him.

First of all, Fitzgerald is not even playing. And secondly, did you just call former league MVP Kurt Warner a blind monkey?

[Arkansas Bronco]

Alright, you been trumpeting your band for quite a while but please remember we are 4-1. Thats the difference between us and also ranoff's like AZ. Oh and I'm a Jake homer. Take it as you like

Thats ok man alot of people like the under-dog. Just not me (as a QB that is, as a person he is a good guy).

[Northman]

Alright, you been trumpeting your band for quite a while but please remember we are 4-1. Thats the difference between us and also ranoff's like AZ. Oh and I'm a Jake homer. Take it as you like



True, but my point is we could be 4-1 with Jay as we are with Jake. Everyone who has been defending Jake has said that Jay would not succeed as a rookie here. Well, obviously that is false now. So yea, i am trumpeting my horn. Take it as you like.

[Jason in LA]

Gonzo beat me to it. I'm working on a write up right now that examines the myth that starting talented super-star rookies early can hurt their development. It's total crap. Gradkowski, Leinert, Young. All started early and all are doing very well. They make mistakes but they are learning as they go. It's total garbage and I hope that SoCal and the others who claim this to be true come in here to admit they were wrong.

I'm starting to change my opinion on that subject. And it's not because I'm getting tired of Plummer. Really, it's not.

I'm interested in what you have to say about it. I'm thinking that it's the more complex offenses that are run in college these days. These QBs are more ready to play than QBs from 20 years ago.

[GonzoLays]

A blind monkey could put up numbers with Boldin and Fitz. He has looked good so far lets see where it goes before we realy start to analize him.

You say some outlandish things. A rookie QB picks apart the most feared NFL defense without his number one WR and you think that is nothing? Give me a break.

[freak6]

Go Cards. They might knock some fools outta the survivor pool, and give the Bears some hubris.

[Arkansas Bronco]

First of all, Fitzgerald is not even playing. And secondly, did you just call former league MVP Kurt Warner a blind monkey?

First, I am watching the game and I can see. Second, yea I guess I did.

[BroncoSoja]

Gonzo beat me to it. I'm working on a write up right now that examines the myth that starting talented super-star rookies early can hurt their development. It's total crap. Gradkowski, Leinert, Young. All started early and all are doing very well. They make mistakes but they are learning as they go. It's total garbage and I hope that SoCal and the others who claim this to be true come in here to admit they were wrong.

Sad thing is here we are with perhaps the best of that bunch(Cutler) riding the pine.. Yet listening to all the St. Jake lovers he would be terrible and lead us to ruin... Meanwhile we get to see the others perform pretty damn good on INFERIOR TEAMS and get to watch our 10 year Vet struggle on perhaps one of the BEST TEAMS in the NFL....

[GonzoLays]

First, I am watching the game and I can see.

Obviously you can't.

A blind monkey could put up numbers with Boldin and Fitz. He has looked good so far lets see where it goes before we realy start to analize him.

Fitz ain't playing so why mention him?

[Kaylore]

Sad thing is here we are with perhaps the best of that bunch(Cutler) riding the pine.. Yet listening to all the St. Jake lovers he would be terrible and lead us to ruin... Meanwhile we get to see the others perform pretty damn good on INFERIOR TEAMS and get to watch our 10 year Vet struggle on perhaps one of the BEST TEAMS in the NFL....

Yeah it just pisses me off even more. What a waste. What a total joke.

[scorpio]

Go Cards. They might knock some fools outta the survivor pool, and give the Bears some hubris.

That word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Arkansas Bronco]

Fitz ain't playing so why mention him?

Mainly because he will be playing most of the time like he did last week, which Leinart had a good game then as well. And like I said in my first post it is to early to judge you may be able to tell 2 starts in but I want to see more.

[Kaylore]

That word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

http://www.priceofliberty.net/wp-content/images/PostImages/inconceivable_222.jpg

[troya900]

You say some outlandish things. A rookie QB picks apart the most feared NFL defense without his number one WR and you think that is nothing? Give me a break.

Funny how you come out with a thread like this after 1 half of football for Leinart where the D gave him 4 turnovers to work with. Yet, Plummer week after week shows what a moronic, worthless QB he is and he keeps getting a pass from people like you.

[freak6]

That word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Oops, I ment the opposite of hubris. Good catch Scorpio. I'm tired of hearing about the unbeatable Bears!!

23-3

[ClevelandBronco]

M. Leinart 24/42, 232 yds., 2 TD, 0 Int.

But then the fumble on the sack that was returned for a TD that began the string of scores that lost the game.

Good numbers, especially for a rookie. But not a win.

The kid is very good.

[azbroncfan]

3rd round talent how do come up with that? Socal, for a draft expert you have had some real misses. I couldn't do any better though although I was screaming for mark anderson over dumerville.

[broncogary]

A He has looked good so far lets see where it goes before we realy start to analize him.

That's gotta hurt! :~ohyah!:

[SprintRightOption]

Sad thing is here we are with perhaps the best of that bunch(Cutler) riding the pine.. Yet listening to all the St. Jake lovers he would be terrible and lead us to ruin... Meanwhile we get to see the others perform pretty damn good on INFERIOR TEAMS and get to watch our 10 year Vet struggle on perhaps one of the BEST TEAMS in the NFL....

Dude, who are the Jake lovers? Orange4Life, who else? There are like 20 angry screaming pro-Cutler people saying things like "Jake is the worst QB in the NFL" or "Jake is just not getting it done, he needs to be benched." Those are Cutler homers, and you all are calling anyone who says something as mild as, "we are winning, let's not bench Plummer until we lose another game with him" a JAKE HOMER? Seriously, nobody is 1/4th as pro-Plummer as these guys are pro-Cutler. They're saying, "anybody who doesn't agree that Plummer is the worst QB ever is a complete idiot. I can stand for this for one more second!!!!!1!!1!!!!" Or saying Leinart's game tongiht proves that the "Plummer homers" are just plain ridiculous!!! (By the way, watermock, you have misspelled ridiculous about 10000 times by now, there is no E).

If you say something as mild as "Jack didn't throw the game away" or "I'm not 100% sure that Cutler will go undefeated and win the Superbowl if he starts now" when we win 3 straight games by 10 on the strength of defense, you are not some wild, frenzied Plummer homer grasping at straws to defend him at all costs. What are you people seeing?

Matt Leinart is an awesome, clutch QB with a long, proven track record, and anything he does right now, is not, FOR CERTAIN, less than what Jay Cutler would do. Where the **** is all the anger coming from, and where are all these crazy pro-plummer nuts you guys keep ranting about?

[ScotchTanShan]

Cutler may very well be a great QB- he's not Leinart at this point b/c he didn't play in a pro style offense in college or face the number of future NFL'rs in huge games as ML did... Cutler would not be doing the same for the Broncos right now, and thats a face.

Shanny is well aware the Jake is holding you back but he has to stick with him for a while until Jay can adjust. Gotta give it time, but anyone that's pro Plummer is a tard that refuses to see even you're coach knows the guys is a domehead that will cave under preasure no matter the skills he may flash.

[SoCalBronco]

Leinart was very good yet again. If he continues to be consistently good, I will be happy to eat a plate of crow.

He definitely is doing a fine job for Arizona so far.

[Kaylore]

Leinart was very good yet again. If he continues to be consistently good, I will be happy to eat a plate of crow.

He definitely is doing a fine job for Arizona so far.

Hey SoCal, what do you feel about Cutler starting early? Gradkowski, Young and Leinert seem to be doing ok. Do you still think we would damage Cutler's development?

[Florida_Bronco]

Hey SoCal, what do you feel about Cutler starting early? Gradkowski, Young and Leinert seem to be doing ok. Do you still think we would damage Cutler's development?

Well to be fair, every one of those teams basically had nothing to lose when they started their rookies.

[illini2187]

Bear fan here....Leinart looked real good. I'm am kinda drunk and very speechless right now. I really couldn't be happier though. A win is a win, and we have a Bye week to try and fix our offensive woes.

[Taco John]

Leinart was very good yet again. If he continues to be consistently good, I will be happy to eat a plate of crow.

He definitely is doing a fine job for Arizona so far.



You're a good guy, Socal... :)

[Taco John]

Bear fan here....Leinart looked real good. I'm am kinda drunk and very speechless right now. I really couldn't be happier though. A win is a win, and we have a Bye week to try and fix our offensive woes.

That was an amazing game, and a most improbable comeback. Games like that are the reason I watch the sport.:thumbsup:

[ScotchTanShan]

Exactly - all the other teams don't have the same season hopes the Broncos do. If Jake can simply be managed you can hope to squeek out games like you have b/c the D is solid enough.

Sadly, if you get down--- screwed, and I don't think Cutler wouldn't make a few rookie mistakes along the way to make a change warranted at this point. Just going to have to accept that you're going to be hampered on O - and Shanny knows the guy under center is why.


Oh, and J. Walker is looking good and may be the bailout reciever you need a la Sharpe back in the day to keep the chains moving.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Cutler may very well be a great QB- he's not Leinart at this point b/c he didn't play in a pro style offense in college or face the number of future NFL'rs in huge games as ML did... Cutler would not be doing the same for the Broncos right now, and thats a face.
I presume you meant "fact", but it's not a fact...it's utter nonsense.

First of all, the "pro style offense" is the most over rated and oft repeated drivel ever. If you can drop back in a pocket, scan the field for receivers and throw it to any area on the field accurately against both man to man coverage and a zone...you're basically in a "pro style offense"...though the NFL obviously uses a more complicated playbook. Second, Leinert had infinitely more talent surrounding him at USC than Cutler had at Vandy...practically an NFL expansion team before he ever left school...so he obviously had WAY more help. Third, I can't believe you're arguing that the SEC is inferior to the PAC 10 in the talent level that each QB faced. Cutler faced the best competition in the country week in and week out in that conference and he didn't have an armada of future NFL stars to back him up like Leinert did.

Leinert's game tonight proves that a rookie with talent in the right system can succeed. Is Cutler in that system? I'd say he is because I know that the talent level on offense that we currently have is capable of much more than we're currently seeing with Jake running the offense. The real question is not whether Cutler could succeed as Leinert has so far. The real question is this...

Are you watching this Mike Shanahan?

[yavoon]

Exactly - all the other teams don't have the same season hopes the Broncos do. If Jake can simply be managed you can hope to squeek out games like you have b/c the D is solid enough.

Sadly, if you get down--- screwed, and I don't think Cutler wouldn't make a few rookie mistakes along the way to make a change warranted at this point. Just going to have to accept that you're going to be hampered on O - and Shanny knows the guy under center is why.


Oh, and J. Walker is looking good and may be the bailout reciever you need a la Sharpe back in the day to keep the chains moving.

does j. walker look good or has he just replaced rod smith as jake's lock on target horse blinder throw boy.

[SoCalBronco]

Hey SoCal, what do you feel about Cutler starting early? Gradkowski, Young and Leinert seem to be doing ok. Do you still think we would damage Cutler's development?

I would still prefer for Jay to sit on the bench and soak it in for the year, even though Jake sucks Bob's hairy, sweaty balls. As it is now, I think Jay is getting acclimated to the full quantitative and qualitative aspects of our offense and is repping all of that. He's probably got a good grasp on the general qualitative concepts, like the dropback game, roll out game, run-checks, blitz checks etc. but the quantitative aspect, in the sense of the sheer number of plays under each concept, he has not gotten enough reps yet. I would prefer him to continue to learn in peace and without all the pressure the full quantitative complement of the offense. He most likely could be better than Plummer right now (after all we both saw how special he was in camp) because he is so gifted and Jake is smoking alot of pole currently. However, if we were to start him, I think we'd scale back what we are doing not in the qualitative manner that we are scaling it back for Jake (not alot of dropback pass concepts and not alot of checks concepts), but rather in the quantitative sense. I'd rather that he practice and get rep after rep after rep in the full complement this season, rather than have him practice and play something that is not what is completely going to be asked of him in the future. I'd also like him just to learn in peace and without pressure for at least this year.

[-Slap-]

I disagreed with him about Leinart, but what impresses me about SoCal is that he does his own talent evaluating based on his own personal observations. He doesn't just fall into line with all the other lemmings and declare Player X will be a star because everybody else is projecting him in the top ten.

[yavoon]

I disagreed with him about Leinart, but what impresses me about SoCal is that he does his own talent evaluating based on his own personal observations. He doesn't just fall into line with all the other lemmings and declare Player X will be a star because everybody else is projecting him in the top ten.

I like that he's willing to say ppl suck. lotsa ppl wont say ppl suck. though its probably not a very accurate predictive position to take.

[BroncoBuff]

I was never a Leinart fan - I'm still not.

But tonight was astonishing. Two starting O-Lineman and Larry Fitzgerald out for Arizona, and yet Leinart did ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING you could ask of him to beat the best defense in the league in just his 2nd start. Who wouldda thought Neil Rackers would go 'VanderJagt' on two kicks?

That last drive after the Bears' punt return for TD was a thing of beauty.

[freak6]

I would still prefer for Jay to sit on the bench and soak it in for the year, just to learn in peace and without pressure for at least this year.

Jake Plummer started from day one we signed him. Jay Cutler has had 3 months in this offense already. It's not like Jake was some stud vet that knew our offense in and out when he came in. I think the offense is upgraded with Cutler in there, since our 10 year vet still makes rookie mistakes.

[Northman]

Well to be fair, every one of those teams basically had nothing to lose when they started their rookies.



And that changes what? Bad teams are bad teams as you saw last night. But it doesnt change the fact that these Qb's are playing well as ROOKIES. Now imagine if you will a good ROOKIE playing well on a GOOD team. You Spinmeisters are amazing. Ha!

[Northman]

I presume you meant "fact", but it's not a fact...it's utter nonsense.

First of all, the "pro style offense" is the most over rated and oft repeated drivel ever. If you can drop back in a pocket, scan the field for receivers and throw it to any area on the field accurately against both man to man coverage and a zone...you're basically in a "pro style offense"...though the NFL obviously uses a more complicated playbook. Second, Leinert had infinitely more talent surrounding him at USC than Cutler had at Vandy...practically an NFL expansion team before he ever left school...so he obviously had WAY more help. Third, I can't believe you're arguing that the SEC is inferior to the PAC 10 in the talent level that each QB faced. Cutler faced the best competition in the country week in and week out in that conference and he didn't have an armada of future NFL stars to back him up like Leinert did.

Leinert's game tonight proves that a rookie with talent in the right system can succeed. Is Cutler in that system? I'd say he is because I know that the talent level on offense that we currently have is capable of much more than we're currently seeing with Jake running the offense. The real question is not whether Cutler could succeed as Leinert has so far. The real question is this...

Are you watching this Mike Shanahan?




Rep.

[Florida_Bronco]

And that changes what? Bad teams are bad teams as you saw last night. But it doesnt change the fact that these Qb's are playing well as ROOKIES. Now imagine if you will a good ROOKIE playing well on a GOOD team. You Spinmeisters are amazing. Ha!

Spinmeister? What the **** are you talking about dude? ???

[Orange_Beard]

Gonzo beat me to it. I'm working on a write up right now that examines the myth that starting talented super-star rookies early can hurt their development. It's total crap. Gradkowski, Leinert, Young. All started early and all are doing very well. They make mistakes but they are learning as they go. It's total garbage and I hope that SoCal and the others who claim this to be true come in here to admit they were wrong.

All three look better then Plummer.

[ScotchTanShan]

And better than Plummer, too!

I will weep the day he has to pack up his Element and head out of D town...

[Circle Orange]

I guess one decent game gets him into the hall of fame...never mind his team lost, as long as he 'looks good'.

Whatever...they had the cameras on him half the night going on and on, blah, blah...

Yes, he looks like a professional qb. But how about seeing how he WINS before casting him in bronze????

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I guess one decent game gets him into the hall of fame...never mind his team lost, as long as he 'looks good'.
Whatever...they had the cameras on him half the night going on and on, blah, blah...
Yes, he looks like a professional qb. But how about seeing how he WINS before casting him in bronze????
LOL
You can't do more than Leinart did last night so blaming him for not winning that game is idiotic.

What it shows is a rookie took it to the best D in the league.

[Circle Orange]

LOL
You can't do more than Leinart did last night so blaming him for not winning that game is idiotic.

What it shows is a rookie took it to the best D in the league.

I guess its just funny how the media hypes who they want to hype...when Rivers went against Pittsburgh's defense and did well, everyone blew it off...I guess Line-Art's the flavor of the week. And despite the losing atmosphere, the Cardinals have a lot of talent at the skill positions. They made a few alterations in the O line to better protect. It worked well for them last night.

But I still laugh at how everyone that plays a good game is an instant superstar.

[Rohirrim]

I guess one decent game gets him into the hall of fame...never mind his team lost, as long as he 'looks good'.

Whatever...they had the cameras on him half the night going on and on, blah, blah...

Yes, he looks like a professional qb. But how about seeing how he WINS before casting him in bronze????

What a joke. Even with the fumbles and the punt returns his team coughed up, he STILL got them to the position to win the game - and the friggin kicker muffed it. Leinart DID win that game. Now Denny needs to get somebody other than the Keystone Kops to back him up.

Leinart looks as good as I thought he would. Cutler might be even better. Personally speaking, I'm ready to find out.

[freak6]

Cutler might be even better. Personally speaking, I'm ready to find out.

We're 4-1. And Cutler hasn't even <b> taken an NFL snap</b>, and you people want to throw away the season.

[Rohirrim]

We're 4-1. And Cutler hasn't even <b> taken an NFL snap</b>, and you people want to throw away the season.

Right, drama queen. Perhaps you could explain how a better passer would hurt a team that's winning games through defense?

[Derger_Louis]

Mainly because he will be playing most of the time like he did last week, which Leinart had a good game then as well. And like I said in my first post it is to early to judge you may be able to tell 2 starts in but I want to see more.

Fitzgerald didn't play most of the time last week - he was injured in the first half, and only had 2 catches for 15 yards.

[Spider]

Hilarious! love the drama ...........

[Spider]

Been around enough to know Lienart is good , pretty solid , doesnt get rattled and sure in the hell isnt intimidated .... excellent skills , knows where he is on the field ...........
But then so was Bert Jones , Steve Grogan , Stan Humphries , etc ........ I would rather have Lienart then vick , Simms and a few others ........

[Elway 4 Life]

I do believe that the cardinals are a few good solid o-lineman away from being a contender.

They have been in almost evey game this year and could very well be 3-2.

Leinart is the future and looked very good last night. He gave them every chance to win. I screamed "bust" during the draft and so far i have been dead wrong. I think he is going to be a star (having the talent around him at the skill positions helps tremendously) in this league for years to come.

I think when Jay gets his opportunity he will be every bit as good if not better.

[freak6]

Right, drama queen. Perhaps you could explain how a better passer would hurt a team that's winning games through defense?

Because, he hasn't even taken an NFL snap. He'll kill us with his rookie mistakes.

You liberals make me sick. You always want to cut and run. The Broncos and the USA just have to stay the course!!!

pfff

[Rohirrim]

You must have missed the preseason. Cutler looks as poised and capable as Leinart did yesterday. I'll tell you what scares me: The first time the Broncos are down 10 points in any game this season. Hopefully, it never happens.

[GonzoLays]

I disagreed with him about Leinart, but what impresses me about SoCal is that he does his own talent evaluating based on his own personal observations. He doesn't just fall into line with all the other lemmings and declare Player X will be a star because everybody else is projecting him in the top ten.

I believe it has more to do with SoCal's jealousy of Leinart and USC's success than anything else.

Not surprisingly, there is a lack of institutional control at U$C. The NCAA needs to take them to the woodshed.

They got cheated by U$C and the stupid refs, it was a huge fraud.

As The Big E noted I am still angry at him for allowing U$C to fraud out that game

Only a fool would believe that SoCal rated him a "mid to late third round QB" because of his lack of talent.

[Dedhed]

Leinart has certainly put to rest the argument that a rookie can't out perform a lame duck veteran, and he replaced a QB with better credentials than Jake.

[Bronx33]

Leinart has certainly put to rest the argument that a rookie can't out perform a lame duck veteran, and he replaced a QB with better credentials than Jake.


Sure but warner was flat stinking and green is the coach and their season is and was lost from day one, and remember folks a good showing doesn't mean hes going to make it through the season intact. (alot of football to be played)

[Bronco Bob]

Right, drama queen. Perhaps you could explain how a better passer would hurt a team that's winning games through defense?

What proof do you have that Cutler is a better passer in a real NFL game?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What proof do you have that Cutler is a better passer in a real NFL game?
Than Plummer, are you kidding?

[Rohirrim]

What proof do you have that Cutler is a better passer in a real NFL game?


http://www.intellectualloafing.com/noframes/images/ravenseqn2.gif

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Sure but warner was flat stinking and green is the coach and their season is and was lost from day one, and remember folks a good showing doesn't mean hes going to make it through the season intact. (alot of football to be played)
Anyone who can't see Leinart is a talented QB after his last two starts probably still thinks Plummer is a better passer than Cutler.

[Bronx33]

Anyone who can't see Leinart is a talented QB after his last two starts probably still thinks Plummer is a better passer than Cutler.

I never said he wasn't talented, iam only saying we have two teams in two totally different situations and alot of football has yet to be played.

[Dedhed]

Sure but warner was flat stinking and green is the coach and their season is and was lost from day one, and remember folks a good showing doesn't mean hes going to make it through the season intact. (alot of football to be played)

Plummer is flat out stinking, and Cutler from what I've seen is better than Leinart. I don't think Cutler would have lost any of the games that Jake as won this year, and I think the playbook would be more open than it is right now.

Leinart has shown that a rookie can outperform a veteran at the QB position, which is something many around here have argued is impossible.

[Bronx33]

Plummer is flat out stinking, and Cutler from what I've seen is better than Leinart. I don't think Cutler would have lost any of the games that Jake as won this year, and I think the playbook would be more open than it is right now.

Leinart has shown that a rookie can outperform a veteran at the QB position, which is something many around here have argued is impossible.


Only difference is we are 4-1 and if we were 1-4 cutler just might be playing, and if cutler had started from day one and we were 1-4 people on here would be saying shanny is stupid to go with the rookie and should stay with the veteran. (we got nothing to lose) i just think this start cutler talk is a waste of time until jake starts losing games with his poor play.

[Rohirrim]

Only difference is we are 4-1 and if we were 1-4 cutler just might be playing, and if cutler had started from day one and we were 1-4 people on here would be saying shanny is stupid to go with the rookie and should stay with the veteran. (we got nothing to lose) i just think this start cutler talk is a waste of time until jake starts losing games with his poor play.

Yeah, but then you might be throwing Cutler in when the Broncos are down a couple of TDs, or something. Anybody ever think that the O is so anemic because Jake has some kind of Wally Pipp nightmare going? You know, he goes out and gets a big lead and then, fourth quarter, Shanahan says, "Good work, Jake. I'm going to let Jay get his feet wet a little." Aha! That's why Jake won't go for the big lead!!! I figured it out. ;D

[Smiling Assassin27]

you people are loons. you've seen cutler play some preseason snaps and you think he's a viable starter in this league? NOT. how people can get a read on jay cutler after 4 preseason games against vanilla defenses and a total lack of intensity is beyond me. you've got one proven commodity and one unproven commodity, period.

as for leinart, he looks good but so did neil lomax...the offensive line will get him killed eventually.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

you people are loons. you've seen cutler play some preseason snaps and you think he's a viable starter in this league?
No, we seen Plummer play some NFL snaps.

[Smiling Assassin27]

did you erase last year from your memory banks, then? the guy can be efficient in denver and was last year. this year, he's got a new running game, 2 new wr's (one that's getting old and slow) and a new TE who cannot get open at all.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

did you erase last year from your memory banks, then? the guy can be efficient in denver and was last year. this year, he's got a new running game, 2 new wr's (one that's getting old and slow) and a new TE who cannot get open at all.
New running game? If you think out TEs and WRs aren't getting open you haven't been watching the games.

[Circle Orange]

Leinart was very good yet again. If he continues to be consistently good, I will be happy to eat a plate of crow.

He definitely is doing a fine job for Arizona so far.


I dunno...I was watching his backside a lot. Okay, not especially plump. And his hair looks like something out of a gladiator movie, or Jason and the Argonauts. Hilarious!

[Smiling Assassin27]

i've seen every game. rod smith is not getting open consistently, neither is kircus. and sheffler's thinking too much to get open. and yes, new running game--bell is the primary guy this year and mike bell is the sub, just in case you hadn't heard. cecil sapp is playing a lot more FB and dropping TD's.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

i've seen every game. rod smith is not getting open consistently, neither is kircus. and sheffler's thinking too much to get open. and yes, new running game--bell is the primary guy this year and mike bell is the sub, just in case you hadn't heard. cecil sapp is playing a lot more FB and dropping TD's.
Uh, the RG is the same, even the same RBs save MA and MB. And Johnson just now got hurt.

And the WRs are complaining about not getting thrown too now. Kircus is definitely getting open, so is Javon. So Sapp is dropping TDs all over place now huh?

These excuses don't wash at all.

[Smiling Assassin27]

excuses are different than reasons.

did you see sapp's drop that cost us 7? how are you gonna pin that one on jake? how about the one that hit JW in the hands on 3rd down that he dropped? plummer's fault again? please. getting open once or twice a game, anyone can do. rod and kircus are not CONSISTENTLY getting open this year. wr's are complaining? uh, kircus isn't complaining and neither is rod. i don't hear marshall complaining or anyone else! javon complained even when favre was throwing his way 10 times per game--it's who he is. alexander's not a threat to get open and sheff's not even sure what city he's in most of the time.

look. is jake free of blame? hell no. some of his passes and decisions are downright ugly. but the guy has shown he can manage this offense at a pro bowl level. cutler's proven squat. the fact that we see few plays called for jake to roll out tells me that shanny's partly to blame for making jake stand in the pocket and fail. part of it is jake and his decisions/skills. the final part is jake's supporting cast, who have been FAR from consistent for an entire game, let alone a quarter of a season.

[Dedhed]

Only difference is we are 4-1 and if we were 1-4 cutler just might be playing, and if cutler had started from day one and we were 1-4 people on here would be saying shanny is stupid to go with the rookie and should stay with the veteran. (we got nothing to lose) i just think this start cutler talk is a waste of time until jake starts losing games with his poor play.

Doesn't change the fact that a rookie is a better than a veteran. A SB winner at that.

[Requiem]

I remember when SoCal had stated that to me, and I did laugh a while back. He and I have been discussing draft privately since the beginnin' of this season even. It was is unpopular opinion, that he believed Leinart was a third-round guy. However, Leinart did slide further down than expected (outside Mel Kiper and a select few) on Draft Day. I thought SoCal was far off on Leinart, but that's okay. I was off in thinking Chad Jackson was top fifteen material. Most all of us are when it comes to prospects at some point. However, I am thankful to have the opportunity to talk with SoCal, a guy who analyzes players and takes what he sees on the field and translates that into his own rankings. He's a good guy and a great member on these boards. Keep up the good work SoCal.

[Bronx33]

Doesn't change the fact that a rookie is a better than a veteran. A SB winner at that.

Your opinion is noted...

[Rohirrim]

I remember when SoCal had stated that to me, and I did laugh a while back. He and I have been discussing draft privately since the beginnin' of this season even. It was is unpopular opinion, that he believed Leinart was a third-round guy. However, Leinart did slide further down than expected (outside Mel Kiper and a select few) on Draft Day. I thought SoCal was far off on Leinart, but that's okay. I was off in thinking Chad Jackson was top fifteen material. Most all of us are when it comes to prospects at some point. However, I am thankful to have the opportunity to talk with SoCal, a guy who analyzes players and takes what he sees on the field and translates that into his own rankings. He's a good guy and a great member on these boards. Keep up the good work SoCal.

I respect SoCal too, but it's still fun to :poke: him over Leinart. ;D

[Kaylore]

I need to step in here and say I knocked Leinert for some things. I said he was whiner and didn't have the mental toughness to lose a lot in Arizona. I also wasn't impressed with his arm and his lack of mobility. Now I know it's early, but he showed a lot of resolve carrying that team and I bet he bounces back and does the same good things week to week.

[Requiem]

You like to play Tummy Sticks with him? That's what I gather from the emoticon. :D

[bloodsunday]

They make mistakes but they are learning as they go. It's total garbage and I hope that SoCal and the others who claim this to be true come in here to admit they were wrong.
I'd take a few mistakes (from either QB) in exchange for an offense that looks like it has some life. The Broncos offense looked as lifeless as the Raiders on Sunday. (That is the saddest statement I can make as a Broncos fan).

[Rohirrim]

You like to play Tummy Sticks with him? That's what I gather from the emoticon. :D

Watch it, sucka. :militia:

[Requiem]

Is that a challenge? *unbuckles belt*

[Rohirrim]

Is that a challenge? *unbuckles belt*

Okay, you asked for it. Internet fight! Make some room. :redpunch:

[broncocalijohn]

A blind monkey could put up numbers with Boldin and Fitz. He has looked good so far lets see where it goes before we realy start to analize him.


Fitzgerald didnt even play! How much more do you need to see? He put his team in position to win against the Bears defense! Two weeks in a row he gave Rackers opps to win the game. He was a stud at SC and he will be in the NFL. Palmer had a year to adjust to the level of play. Matt has to do it 3 to 4 games in his rookie season. Fight on Matt!

[GonzoLays]

Is that a challenge? *unbuckles belt*

You know, i'm not even going to go there. brrrr


hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[Smelvin]

I believe it has more to do with SoCal's jealousy of Leinart and USC's success than anything else.







Only a fool would believe that SoCal rated him a "mid to late third round QB" because of his lack of talent.

Excellent post. SoCal may know who every player in the draft is, but he seems to miss an awful lot. To say Leinart is a third round talent is laughable....completely destroys all credibility. If he were paid to evaluate talent...you're fired! And isn't SoCal the guy who wanted us to draft LenDale White with the 15th pick? That sure would have been a steal! Dude is riding pine for a horrible Tennessee team. He's fat and overweight. Completely unmotivated.

It cracks me up - all the so called "draft experts" in here who think they know more about these players than scouts who spend hours, days, weeks, months watching tape of the players they are evaluating.

Leinart is a 3rd round talent - yeah okay.

Just like the U is a clean program...lol.

[Northman]

I never said he wasn't talented, iam only saying we have two teams in two totally different situations and alot of football has yet to be played.



So again, in your estimation if you take a good rookie Qb and install him in a offense with great talent, THE BEST DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE AT THIS POINT, a SB winning coach he would fail? Yet, Leinart who plays with a has been RB, a fair defense, 2 good recievers ( although one was missing last night ), a coach who hasnt even been to a SB and a ****ty Oline can succeed? Yea, thats great logic there. ::)


Hey everyone, you heard it here first. Bronx has just enlightened us to the fact that Dennis Green is a far Superior coach to Shanahan and that the Cardinals are a far better team than the Broncos because Leinart can play well with a 1-5 team but Cutler would fail with a 4-1 team. Hilarious!

[BroncoBuff]

Fitzgerald didnt even play! How much more do you need to see? He put his team in position to win against the Bears defense! Two weeks in a row he gave Rackers opps to win the game. He was a stud at SC and he will be in the NFL. Palmer had a year to adjust to the level of play. Matt has to do it 3 to 4 games in his rookie season. Fight on Matt!

Bullseye.

I agreed with SoCal that Leinart was < Cutler. He still might be. But last night was a major eye-opener. He did everything humanly possible to win that game. VERY impressive.

[Bronx33]

So again, in your estimation if you take a good rookie Qb and install him in a offense with great talent, THE BEST DEFENSE IN THE LEAGUE AT THIS POINT, a SB winning coach he would fail? Yet, Leinart who plays with a has been RB, a fair defense, 2 good recievers ( although one was missing last night ), a coach who hasnt even been to a SB and a ****ty Oline can succeed? Yea, thats great logic there. ::)


Hey everyone, you heard it here first. Bronx has just enlightened us to the fact that Dennis Green is a far Superior coach to Shanahan and that the Cardinals are a far better team than the Broncos because Leinart can play well with a 1-5 team but Cutler would fail with a 4-1 team. Hilarious!


How the hell did you gather that from what i said??

[Northman]

you people are loons. you've seen cutler play some preseason snaps and you think he's a viable starter in this league? NOT. how people can get a read on jay cutler after 4 preseason games against vanilla defenses and a total lack of intensity is beyond me. you've got one proven commodity and one unproven commodity, period.

as for leinart, he looks good but so did neil lomax...the offensive line will get him killed eventually.


Uh yea, the line will get him killed because aside from the Receiver core there is no talent there. Fact is, the Cardinals are expected to lose but the point is that Leinart as a ROOKIE is not the one thats hurting that team. He has already outplayed a SB MVP, yes thats right a SUPER BOWL MVP!

[Bronco LB 59]

Excellent post. SoCal may know who every player in the draft is, but he seems to miss an awful lot. To say Leinart is a third round talent is laughable....completely destroys all credibility. If he were paid to evaluate talent...you're fired! And isn't SoCal the guy who wanted us to draft LenDale White with the 15th pick? That sure would have been a steal! Dude is riding pine for a horrible Tennessee team. He's fat and overweight. Completely unmotivated.

It cracks me up - all the so called "draft experts" in here who think they know more about these players than scouts who spend hours, days, weeks, months watching tape of the players they are evaluating.

SMELL VIN

You have no room to talk with all of your mindless Giants homerism.

[Northman]

How the hell did you gather that from what i said??



Its not just you Bronx. Its everyone who has said that Cutler cannot run this offense. Forget wins and losses for a moment and look at the actual Qb play. Leinart has played fabulous in his first two starts, its not his fault he doesnt have the supporting cast around him. Vince Young faces the same thing yet he was able to help lead his team to a late victory on Sunday. Same with the young kid in Tampa. All 3 of those teams are not very good overall yet the Qb play has been very impressive considering who it is running the offense. You make a claim that its only 2 games. Well, of course its only two games.

And you know what? All 3 of those Qbs will have bad games too. They are ROOKIES. And what im trying to explain to you is that we have a good young ROOKIE on our team with a great coach and a great supporting cast. A supporting cast that is much better than what the other 3 Rookie Qb's have. Now, even though it was pre season Cutler still showed more accuracy and poise in the pocket. He showed he can be cool and collective out there. Will he make mistakes? of course, HE IS A ROOKIE. But he also has a huge upside and right now, if Shanny is going to run a conservative offense, Cutler will do no worse because he has a better SUPPORTING CAST.

[Bronx33]

Its not just you Bronx. Its everyone who has said that Cutler cannot run this offense. Forget wins and losses for a moment and look at the actual Qb play. Leinart has played fabulous in his first two starts, its not his fault he doesnt have the supporting cast around him. Vince Young faces the same thing yet he was able to help lead his team to a late victory on Sunday. Same with the young kid in Tampa. All 3 of those teams are not very good overall yet the Qb play has been very impressive considering who it is running the offense. You make a claim that its only 2 games. Well, of course its only two games.

And you know what? All 3 of those Qbs will have bad games too. They are ROOKIES. And what im trying to explain to you is that we have a good young ROOKIE on our team with a great coach and a great supporting cast. A supporting cast that is much better than what the other 3 Rookie Qb's have. Now, even though it was pre season Cutler still showed more accuracy and poise in the pocket. He showed he can be cool and collective out there. Will he make mistakes? of course, HE IS A ROOKIE. But he also has a huge upside and right now, if Shanny is going to run a conservative offense, Cutler will do no worse because he has a better SUPPORTING CAST.


Dude i totally agree (thats why your last post confused the hell outa me) the one main factor that i see and i think mike is looking at and that's the team is still winning, mike IMO will stick with plummer, why (while your winning) why kill what mojo and team unity there is by pulling plummer for a rookie? what would that tell the rest of the team? better yet how would they respond to that? I fully agree cutler can play but until plummer totally loses it and games cutler will be holding a clip board. If you want to roll the dice this early in the year then fine go right ahead but iam guessing mikes going to stick with plummer and will cross that bridge when he gets to it.

[Northman]

Dude i totally agree (thats why your last post confused the hell outa me) the one main factor that i see and i think mike is looking at and that's the team is still winning, mike IMO will stick with plummer, why (while your winning) why kill what mojo and team unity there is by pulling plummer for a rookie? what would that tell the rest of the team? better yet how would they respond to that? I fully agree cutler can play but until plummer totally loses it and games cutler will be holding a clip board. If you want to roll the dice this early in the year then fine go right ahead but iam guessing mikes going to stick with plummer and will cross that bridge when he gets to it.



If i misunderstood you then my bad. And i dont think Shanny will pull Jake. The team is winning and i believe he will go with it until the well drys up. If we go on a losing skid and Jake is turning the ball over or just not playing well than i can see Shanny maybe pulling the trigger. I guess i just thought you were proclaiming that Jay couldnt succeed with this team this year. My Bad. You can now smack me. ;)

[bloodsunday]

the one main factor that i see and i think mike is looking at and that's the team is still winning, mike IMO will stick with plummer, why (while your winning) why kill what mojo and team unity there is by pulling plummer for a rookie?
Yes. But I am thinking the team mojo may have more to do with it than the talent or the winning. Shananah has talked openly about how the team reacted negatively to the Brister/Griese thing and it seems that has biased him on how to handle this situation.

All accounts are that Cutler is ahead of schedule (nothing concrete here just the rumors that you hear via the media) so I doubt (hope not) that its because they are worried about his abilities to be the man.

[Bronx33]

If i misunderstood you then my bad. And i dont think Shanny will pull Jake. The team is winning and i believe he will go with it until the well drys up. If we go on a losing skid and Jake is turning the ball over or just not playing well than i can see Shanny maybe pulling the trigger. I guess i just thought you were proclaiming that Jay couldnt succeed with this team this year. My Bad. You can now smack me. ;)


That's how i think mike is looking at the situation and i agree that's the best way to handle it, pulling jake now would do more damage IMO but i fully agree jake controls jakes destiny and if we start losing (pull his arse) and throw the kid in. Mike has been a pretty loyal coach IMO to his players and giving them the full benefit to prove themselves and self adjust to problems, IMO jake is not the QB to take this team to the promise land and it's a damn shame to see this D being wasted when it provides it's offense with numorous opportunities to put points on the board.

[-Slap-]

I believe it has more to do with SoCal's jealousy of Leinart and USC's success than anything else.

Only a fool would believe that SoCal rated him a "mid to late third round QB" because of his lack of talent.

Why?

Leinart's physical tools are not awe inspiring. His arm is average. His wheels are average. He showed a bit of a whiney nature after his losing streak was broken.

Do you honestly believe we were looking at a John Elway or Joe Namath level prospect here?

Now, its entirely possible SoCal's animus towards USC is the reason he downgraded Leinart. I can't speak for him. I know I had nothing personally against #2 overall pick Rick Mirer when he came out of school. I just saw he was a terrible pro prospect and I stated as much. I laughed and laughed when the Seahawks set their franchise back five years by drafting him.

I have nothing against Joey Harrington, either, but I was delighted when Matt Millen wasted the third overall pick on him.

I was scratching my head in amazement when people were predicting greatness for fat, slow Mike Williams. I said Vincent Jackson would be a better pro. Jackson hasn't done anything in the NFL yet and I was still right.

There's another poster on this board named Nuggets4 who isn't afraid to scout players based on his own observations. He was the only guy I knew who said Ryan Leaf would bust in the pros the day after he almost won the Rose Bowl. He was also telling people Cedric Benson had no future before his final season at Texas and he's been on the money about countless other players we've discussed over the last eight or nine years.

If Leinart truly was a can't miss prosepect, he would have gone first overall. Obviously some teams - even teams desperate for a quarterback - had their doubts and passed on him.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Leinart took the criticisms to heart and hit the weightrooms to strengthen his arms and legs before the draft. He also hired a running coach (to teach him how to run faster).

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Why?

Leinart's physical tools are not awe inspiring. His arm is average. His wheels are average. He showed a bit of a whiney nature after his losing streak was broken.

Do you honestly believe we were looking at a John Elway or Joe Namath level prospect here?

Now, its entirely possible SoCal's animus towards USC is the reason he downgraded Leinart. I can't speak for him. I know I had nothing personally against #2 overall pick Rick Mirer when he came out of school. I just saw he was a terrible pro prospect and I stated as much. I laughed and laughed when the Seahawks set their franchise back five years by drafting him.

I have nothing against Joey Harrington, either, but I was delighted when Matt Millen wasted the third overall pick on him.

I was scratching my head in amazement when people were predicting greatness for fat, slow Mike Williams. I said Vincent Jackson would be a better pro. Jackson hasn't done anything in the NFL yet and I was still right.

There's another poster on this board named Nuggets4 who isn't afraid to scout players based on his own observations. He was the only guy I knew who said Ryan Leaf would bust in the pros the day after he almost won the Rose Bowl. He was also telling people Cedric Benson had no future before his final season at Texas and he's been on the money about countless other players we've discussed over the last eight or nine years.

If Leinart truly was a can't miss prosepect, he would have gone first overall. Obviously some teams - even teams desperate for a quarterback - had their doubts and passed on him.

On the money Slap. Love all these guys who never watch a college game but think they are experts. There are a few guys, including SoCal, here who do pay attention before all of the internet draft board herding starts and can express an intelligent evaluation of a player. If half of the other folk here could support thier opinions as well as SoCal, this board would be much more interesting.

[Circle Orange]

This is why I never understood the hysteria about Leinart. It's almost as if the media is desperate to make all the qbs out of the same class equal, so they can compare notes. There's no way Leinart could be that wrongly scouted while playing at a high profile school. Maybe he's a late bloomer, like Brady. But this is as bad as the Eli Manning argument where unfootball people were saying, "oh, he's trying to pull an elway" and "accorsi has his new elway" when everyone in football just rolled their eyes. No sane NFL people ever considered Manning Elway, and even Accorsi couldn't say that. For that matter, Peyton isn't Elway either. So the Chargers essentially said "so what?" when the Mannings pulled their little power play. The commissioner of the league pressured Accorsi to trade Elway just to keep him in football, since Steinbrenner offered a contract, too. Did all that happen with Eli? Sometimes people connect nothing with nothing.

Circumstance doesn't equal talent. 8')

[Rohirrim]

I don't know who was saying Leinart was an Elway type QB. In the first place, Elway had a Nolan Ryan arm. There's very few people who come along with that type of cannon. Leinart's not even close. He's more in the Montana/Brady school - other guys whose QB skills were considered average coming out of college. He's also similar to them in another respect; He throws a very accurate ball, something which is very underappreciated, but a skill I personally put at the top for QBs - especially for the WCO. He's got great field awareness and poise, can read Ds, can throw every pass (except for maybe the backward-thirty-yards-across-the-field pass that Elway could throw), and is a proven winner. I watched most of Leinart's games at USC. He was a winner in college. He'll be a winner in the NFL. I'm happy with Cutler, who seems to have more of the cannon arm. But I would have been just as happy if the pick was Leinart.

[BroncoMan4ever]

i look at the draft and will gladly say and have been saying i think Young will be the bust of the Big3 QB's. He is an athlete, a freakishly good athlete, but not an NFL QB, as he can't throw a true downfield pass, and prefers to run.
Leinart, is a good all around QB, he doesn't have a cannon for an arm, and not very mobile, but he is a great leader, can read a defense good, can throw an accurate ball, and make just about every throw he is asked to. I personally am glad that Denver did not take him, because it would have been another Griese situation, except he would be a good leader. For Denver's offense you need to have a QB that is mobile and can run playaction, so for that reason Cutler is the perfect choice for the future QB of the team. Great leader, cannon for an arm, mobile, he is all that Leinart is, except mobile, stronger and with a bigger better arm.

[Dedhed]

Your opinion is noted...

If your of the opinion that Leinart isn't outperforming Kurt, you've got some issues to work through. In my book, that's not opinion, but fact.

[broncocalijohn]

Sad thing is here we are with perhaps the best of that bunch(Cutler) riding the pine.. Yet listening to all the St. Jake lovers he would be terrible and lead us to ruin... Meanwhile we get to see the others perform pretty damn good on INFERIOR TEAMS and get to watch our 10 year Vet struggle on perhaps one of the BEST TEAMS in the NFL....


i can go back to a kid named John Elway who was pulled many times for Deberg. As long as we are winning and our defense is this tight, Ill have him ride the pine. Anyways, he is hurt. Didnt you hear the news from the light rail? Hilarious!

[Ballhawk]

Matt Leinart, only QB in the history of the NFL to blow two 14 point leads after the 1st qrt in the same season...and it only took him two games to do it.

Didn't take long for him to get into the record books Hilarious!

[NFLBRONCO]

I was impressed with Leinart he does seem to have a Brady type cool. I think my biggest issue is will he survive the beating he's going to take? Edge 36 carries 54 yds ouch. It sure helps having 2 #1 wrs on your team.

[BroncoBuff]

Slap is right on the money when it comes to ranking players ... you gotta have the courage to make up your own mind about guys. If everybody was looking over everybody else's shoulder to rank players - like lemmings - it would be a pretty boring league.

For example, I like when the Raiders take Michael Huff instead of Cutler or Leinart. It gives the franchise character. Uhh

[BroncoBuff]

Matt Leinart, only QB in the history of the NFL to blow two 14 point leads after the 1st qrt in the same season...and it only took him two games to do it.

Didn't take long for him to get into the record books Hilarious!

You know .... that stat is correct. But it only proves the old saw: "There are lies, there are damned lies ... and there are statistics."

BallHawk, you didn't see the Monday game, did you?

[NFLBRONCO]

Slap is right on the money when it comes to ranking players ... you gotta have the courage to make up your own mind about guys. If everybody was looking over everybody else's shoulder to rank players - like lemmings - it would be a pretty boring league.

For example, I like when the Raiders take Michael Huff instead of Cutler or Leinart. It gives the franchise character. Uhh

To this day I don't understand why a lousy team in awful shape not draft Cutler or Leinart to build around. I guess Al figured since he got Shell back maybe he'll call Plunkett for 07 season. Thank you Al we are glad Cutler is here.

[broncocalijohn]

Matt Leinart, only QB in the history of the NFL to blow two 14 point leads after the 1st qrt in the same season...and it only took him two games to do it.

Didn't take long for him to get into the record books Hilarious!

I think the stat Rackers tying a record for blowing game winning field goals two weeks in a row spells larger doom than your hatred for Leinart. That post was what i expect from Gonzo lays. Bad post bad bad bad!

[Ballhawk]

I think the stat Rackers tying a record for blowing game winning field goals two weeks in a row spells larger doom than your hatred for Leinart. That post was what i expect from Gonzo lays. Bad post bad bad bad!

LOL, has nothing to do with hate. Matt has done well for a rookie, but listening to everyone get on this guys knob is just funny. He passed the ball 42 times for a wooping 5.5 yards per attempt. He put on a dink and dunk show. I am not saying he did not do well, but the fact is CHI did all they could to give that game away. After a good first drive Matt lead them on a 25, 10, 22, and 49 yard scoring drive. Of course to hear the announcers, he was tearing apart the Bears D.

The record he now holds as mentioned before is really a team record, but so is come from behind victories...yet QBs get credit for those.

[400HZ]

Leinart looked pretty damn good to me, especially considering that the offense consisted of him and Boldin and pretty much nobody else. You can't honestly try and compare him to Elway or Brady right now, but there also isn't anything you can knock him for after 2 games played.

[BigBad]

All Leinart has shown is that he can dink and dunk well. That was already known of him at USC. What he hasnt shown and what alot of his detractors knock him for is his ability to stretch the NFL field. I dont think he has a strong enough arm to do it. However you can still have success in the NFL this way.(see Brees, Drew)

[Rohirrim]

All Leinart has shown is that he can dink and dunk well. That was already known of him at USC. What he hasnt shown and what alot of his detractors knock him for is his ability to stretch the NFL field. I dont think he has a strong enough arm to do it. However you can still have success in the NFL this way.(see Brees, Drew)

Maybe some of you guys aren't old enough to remember this, but that was EXACTLY the rap people used to put on Montana. Believe me, there were people who absolutely hated Montana. Still do. Under the right system, with Bill Walsh as his coach, he worked out alright. ;D

[Xenos]

Maybe some of you guys aren't old enough to remember this, but that was EXACTLY the rap people used to put on Montana. Believe me, there were people who absolutely hated Montana. Still do. Under the right system, with Bill Walsh as his coach, he worked out alright. ;D

Too bad Leinert stuck with Green right now as well as no Oline.

[Ballhawk]

You know .... that stat is correct. But it only proves the old saw: "There are lies, there are damned lies ... and there are statistics."

BallHawk, you didn't see the Monday game, did you?

Yes, I watched the entire game, and I saw a RT blow a block that caused the fumble, saw Rackers choke an NFL Gimmie, and also watched the bears turn the ball over 6 times.

Don't get me wrong, I just found the record funny. Matt looked calm and composed. He also looked like a QB that is going to throw nothing but quick slants and dumpoffs 90% of the time. His longest completion was 26 yards. He had around half a dozen passes knocked down at the line.

In both games the same has been true, great 1st half lousy 2nd half. The bears were able to go over what they saw and shut him down. I think now that teams can actually watch film to prepare for Matt he is going to have a bunch of ugly hals, 1st and 2nd. If Boldin wasn't such a beast on short and intermediate routes Leinart would have been really exposed for the "noodle arm" he is. Boldin was targeted 19 times in that game!

We shall see, but I Matt has done nothing to really impress me. I never expected him to be jittery coming out of a major program, but he is definately not out there picking Ds a part.

[penguintheory]

Leinart's for real. Looks poised, polished, and ready to compete. Jury's still out on Young and Cutler.

Plummer? It's been 10 years, old man, and we've got talent on the other side of the ball peaking like it hasn't in Denver in years...

Imagine this defense with the mid-'90s Broncos. Excuse me, I need to wipe off my keyboard....

[BroncoMatt]

Leinart's helmet looks too big