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Clockwork Orange
10-13-2006, 04:41 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2619621

Highly regarded pitcher Daisuke Matsuzaka was given permission by the Seibu Lions on Tuesday to pursue a career in the major leagues.

Matsuzaka, who has drawn interest from several major league teams including the New York Yankees, finished the 2006 regular season with a career-high 17 wins against five losses.

The 26-year-old right-hander posted a 2.13 earned-run average and 200 strikeouts.

Matsuzaka has long been considered one of the brightest prospects in Japanese professional baseball.

Seibu is expected to use the posting system in which major league teams present bids for Japanese players and the highest bidder wins the negotiating rights. Ichiro Suzuki signed with the Seattle Mariners under the same system.

Matsuzaka is still one year away from becoming a free agent.

In his eight-year career in Japan, Matsuzaka has led the Pacific League in wins three times and in strikeouts four times while winning the ERA title twice and the Sawamura Award, Japan's version of the Cy Young Award, once.

Matsuzaka impressed major league scouts when he helped Japan win the inaugural World Baseball Classic title last March and was named MVP of the tournament.

WABronco
10-13-2006, 12:22 PM
If he doesn't sign in Seattle it's going to be a MAJOR disappointment...

Clockwork Orange
10-13-2006, 03:25 PM
If he doesn't sign in Seattle it's going to be a MAJOR disappointment...

Get ready for a major disappointment. If Steinbrenner wants him, no one's going to top him in that bidding war.

WABronco
10-13-2006, 09:59 PM
Get ready for a major disappointment. If Steinbrenner wants him, no one's going to top him in that bidding war.

I wouldn't put it past Seattle ownership (heavy Japanese influence) to top any NY offer...

Clockwork Orange
10-13-2006, 10:18 PM
I wouldn't put it past Seattle ownership (heavy Japanese influence) to top any NY offer...

That'll be one hell of a bidding war then. We'll see, Steinbrenner isn't exactly known for fiscal restraint, especially when he wants a player.

WABronco
10-13-2006, 11:51 PM
One candidate to fill the Yankees' pitching need was given permission by his Japanese team to leave for America yesterday. The Seibu Lions will post Daisuke Matsuzaka, a 26-year-old right-hander who some scouts say has better stuff than Hideki Irabu.
U.S. teams can make closed bids on Matsuzaka next month during the posting process. Seattle is expected to go heavy after the pitcher who won a career-high 17 games last year and had a 2.13 ERA and 200 strikeouts. If the Mariners get crazy with the posting price - some say they will go as high as $30 million - the Yankees won't be in it. After a team wins the bidding it has to sign the player. ...


Interesting quote from a recent NY Post article. Granted, it's NY media...

But, as the article stated, the bidding process is "closed." Any team that wants him will have to make damn sure their one bid is highest...Seattle sounds like they're going after this one no holds barred. There are even rumors going around the Seattle blogs that ownership has a separate Japanese "slush fund" set aside for such occasions, and that the bid won't count against team salary budgets...

It's going to be interesting for sure.

Clockwork Orange
10-14-2006, 01:27 AM
Wow. $30 million just for the right to negotiate a contract with the guy. If he's that coveted, he's going to be able to command top flight starting pitcher money, so this is going to be disgustingly costly for whoever does land him.

He'd better be worth it or else someone's gonna throw a truckload of cash down the sinkhole.

Drek
10-15-2006, 12:56 PM
Wow. $30 million just for the right to negotiate a contract with the guy. If he's that coveted, he's going to be able to command top flight starting pitcher money, so this is going to be disgustingly costly for whoever does land him.

He'd better be worth it or else someone's gonna throw a truckload of cash down the sinkhole.

The winning team has exclusive negotiation rights and Matsuzaka's only other option would be to return to Japan and earn somewhere around $4-5M. Its pretty clear that he's signing with Boras though, so he'll get paid, but probably not the $15M AAV that Zito is basically guaranteed.

A lot of sources suggest the posting fee will need to top $17M for Seibu to let him go, so projected posts range from $18-$28M. About 9 MLB teams had scouts at his recent 1-0 shutout against Saitoh, another one of Japan's premier pitchers.

Seattle and the Yanks aren't really ideal teams to spend big money on his posting fee, as most teams view the posting fee as recoupable thanks to increased appeal to Japanese baseball fans. The Dodgers and Padres both come from locations with large asian populations and closer proximity to Japan, improving tourist appeal. The Mets would be a fit as they'd then have another direct competition with NYY for marketshare (Matsuzaka v. Matsui).

The Red Sox are actually interested as well, despite a very small Japanese community in Boston and exceptional distance from Japan. That could very possibly be tied to their ownership of NESN though, giving them the ability to sell their broadcasts and programming to Japanese sports stations. The international live broadcast rights are MLB property and revenue is shared equally amongst all teams, but the Yankees have made exceptional profit selling YES network programming to Japanese stations.

Matsuzaka looks like a hell of a talented pitcher, the big question most people have is less about his ability to get MLB pitchers out and more about health, as he's had many 100+ pitch starts, even a few 140+ pitch starts, and in high school once threw 400 pitches over a three game span. He's been pitching heavy workloads since he was a teen. Its rare for anyone to handle a workload like that without major injuries eventually coming up, but if Matsuzaka is one of those few who can it only increases his value to MLB teams.

His posting bid will likely be settled in early November, so we'll know whats up before most of the major FAs sign. I wouldn't be surprised if Boras intentionally held off Zito's signing until after Matsuzaka's posting, as it'd force all other teams seeking pitching to jump in on the Zito auction, which will get out of hand quickly then.

MechanicalBull
10-16-2006, 01:03 PM
From what I hear the Yanks will be making a pretty high bid for him because of how they got killed in the playoffs. Supposedly this guy is the real deal but we'll have to see if he ends up like Ichiro and Hideki Matsui or Kaz Matsui and Irabu.

Drek
10-18-2006, 01:56 PM
From what I hear the Yanks will be making a pretty high bid for him because of how they got killed in the playoffs. Supposedly this guy is the real deal but we'll have to see if he ends up like Ichiro and Hideki Matsui or Kaz Matsui and Irabu.

I expect the Yankees to sign one, if not two, out of Zito, Matsuzaka, and Schmidt. The only thing that will keep them from signing two of the three is the Mets and/or Red Sox stepping up with some big money while one of the three players makes his decision on non-money factors (Schmidt to Seattle, his hometown area).

Taco John
10-22-2006, 12:04 AM
If he doesn't sign in Seattle it's going to be a MAJOR disappointment...




MAJOR disappointment.


Damn I hate the Yankees...

-Slap-
10-22-2006, 02:01 AM
It won't be a bidding war. Its a closed bid auction, so whoever comes with the top initial bid wins. Seattle and Sega bid $17 million for the negotiating rights to Ichiro.

WABronco
10-24-2006, 11:33 AM
SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/289646_seriesbok23.html

World Series Notebook: Does Matsuzaka want to join Ichiro?
Yankees expected to battle Mariners for star pitcher
Monday, October 23, 2006
By JOHN HICKEY
P-I REPORTER
DETROIT -- The World Series, as always, is a celebration of the two teams that outlasted the other 28 to make it into the second half of October.
That doesn't mean the other 28 can be completely dismissed during the Fall Classic.
Not far from the talk of the Tigers and the Cardinals is talk of how others are planning on making it to the Series next year and beyond.
In many circles, that talk includes Daisuke Matsuzaka. The teams that are believed to be preparing posting bids to pay the Seibu Lions for the rights to the services of the right-handed starting pitcher are the Mariners, Yankees, Red Sox, Rangers, Dodgers, Cubs and Mets. And the Angels and Orioles might take a flier at the 26-year-old right-hander who was 17-5 with a 2.13 ERA in Japan this season.
But where is it that Matsuzaka himself would like to land? Baseball sources say that if he could choose, he'd come to Seattle to play. The reasons are twofold -- center fielder Ichiro Suzuki and catcher Kenji Johjima.
Matsuzaka, associates say, has long wanted to play with Ichiro, something that both men experienced in the World Baseball Classic last spring. Team Japan won the tournament with Matsuzaka winning the Most Valuable Player award and Ichiro serving as mentor to the younger men on the team.
And Matsuzaka and Johjima spent time as teammates at the 2004 Athens Olympics.
The Mariners, and everyone else, had believed they would have one last chance to scout Matsuzaka next month when a team of major league All-Stars, including Johjima, plays a five-game tour in Japan.
Matsuzaka was supposed to be on the Japanese select squad, but this weekend came word that he is pulling out. He cited lingering pain from a hit off his right elbow in September, while tour organizers said he was withdrawing because he wanted to focus on his conditioning in preparation for joining a major league team.
The posting process probably will run its course by the middle of next month. The Yankees, the team with the most money, and the Mariners, the team with the best Japanese connections, are widely considered the clubs that will ultimately butt heads for the right to sign Matsuzaka.
However, the bids are submitted just once for each team, no one knowing what the other teams might do. Seattle bid $13.1 million for Ichiro in fall 2000, and most believe this year's winning bid on Matsuzaka will be in excess of $20 million.

WABronco
10-24-2006, 09:11 PM
And also, with Boras signing on as Matsuzaka's agent, that takes a good handful of teams out of the running as well.

Good thing Bill Bavasi (Seattle GM) has a good relationship with Mr. Boras...

WABronco
10-26-2006, 10:10 PM
Scouting Report: Daisuke Matsuzaka - RHP (http://prospectinsider.wordpress.com/2006/10/26/scouting-report-daisuke-matsuzaka-rhp/)
Posted by Jason A. Churchill on October 26th, 2006

Daisuke Matsuzaka is the be-all, end-all, let’s face it. If the Seattle Mariners land the Japanese superstar, their offseason can be labeled a success, almost regardless of what else, if anything significant, accompanies his arrival this winter.

Personally, I LOVE the idea of adding him to the M’s pitching staff, and I don’t care if it costs $40 million in posting fees and $10+ million per season through 2009. But it seems that somewhere along the way some folks got the idea that Matsuzaka is the greatest pitcher in history of baseball, in any country in any era.

That simply is not the case, though Matsuzaka is clearly a very, very good starting pitcher, and he’s worth as much or more than any free-agent starter this league has seen in quite a few seasons - including the 40-something Roger Clemens.

The 26-year-old hurler, however, should not be expected to roll into the U.S. and post sub-3 ERA’s and lead the league in strikeouts.

So, what exactly can we expect?

That’s hard to tell for sure, and, contrary to what some ‘net rats would have you believe, there is a lot of value in a professional’s opinion, particularly those who have followed Matsuzaka’s 2005 and/or 2006 season.

We’ve read the analysis of those who have followed Matsuzaka’s past few campaigns from afar, using statistics, comparisons and a few minutes of footage over at youtube as evidence. Now it’s time to back those up with the trained eye.

Two have agreed to reveal their team affiliations in retro if their club loses out on the bidding…

What I found most interesting is that the scouts thought somewhat differently of Matsuzaka than the others. One spoke very highly of the way he uses his fastball, even as an out pitch, rather than falling in love with his curve or forkball.

Another thought Matsuzaka indeed fell into spells of overusing one of his offspeed pitches and a third saw no particular pattern at all, which he thought was sensational.

“I can’t get enough of a pitcher who will not use a pitch when he doesn’t need it,” said the AL scout. “Far too many pitchers show a hitter everything in each at-bat and all that seems to do is help the hitter and the rest of the lineup. If someone can’t hit a well-located fastball, what’s the point in using anything else.”

Matsuzaka’s four-seam fastball sits in the 90-94 mph range with average movement. The key to his 4-seam heater is the plus command he displays of the pitch on a regular basis.

“He’ll fight the corners until he finds the zone,” said the AL scout. He’s not afraid of walking a couple while he’s feeling out the strike zone. He rarely shows poor control and when he does it’s typically with his breaking stuff and offspeed stuff. He usually has good command of both of his fastballs.”

Yeah, he said both. Matsuzaka also uses a two-seam variety, in which he can cut in and out off the plate, as well as sink down out of the zone. It’s not a pitch that any of the scouts saw a lot of in 2006, but enough to know it’s there. Rafael Chaves is a big proponent of the two-seamer, especially the kind that induce ground balls, and Matsuzaka can often end an at-bat with a ground ball, when he’s looking to do so.

“Most strikeout pitchers give up the fly ball, and therefore the home run, too,” said the veteran scout. “But Matsuzaka hasn’t been looking for the strikeout, at least not regularly. He seems to understand that getting outs, no matter how they come about, is the name of the game.

“You see those Ks and think he’s Nolan Ryan, but he’s not. He can pitch, and that sinking fastball he’s got is probably underused. If he focused on that pitch more, it might be a 6 or better (on the 2-8 scale.”)

Matsuzaka’s 2-seam heater typically hit the 89-91 mph range, but touched 92-93 in one start in May, which led the NL scout to believe that he’s intentionally taking velocity off the pitch.

“I’ve seen him throw nothing but fastballs and sinkers for two innings at a time, maybe three, and give up zilch. He overmatched a lot of clubs but even when he was fighting his command, he was tough.”

Now that’s pitching.

The four-seamer received a 65 from one scout and a 60/65 from the other two. With the average MLB fastball believed to be about 87-88 mph, Matsuzaka’s velo alone is worth a 60 grade.

Matsuzaka’s BEST pitch is his curve ball. At times, it appears to be a slurvy style offering, but he throws it like a curve ball, so that’s what we’ll call it.

If you have not seen the video of Matsuzaka from last May and June, google that sucker, because he throws a few curves that will boggle the mind.

“That thing can be devastating,” said the veteran scout. “It’s a real good curve, one of the best you’ll see on any continent. He can hang it every once in awhile, but when it’s working it’s a late, and sometimes double-breaking pitch.

“It always shows a sharp downward break like most curves do, but sometimes it slides in on left-handed guys and away from the right-handers. He’s tied up more lefties on that pitch…”

Usually clocked between 77 and 81 mph, Matsuzaka’s curve ball needs a nickname, because it’s a plus-plus pitch, and I don’t care what anyone else says.

“I think it’s a 70,” said the veteran scout. “If he can get outs with it in the states, I’ll rethink that, but for now, I’ll stand by that.”

The NL scout said: “It’s well above average, I like it a lot. After you’ve seen a few good fastballs on the corner, you can’t adjust to a curve ball like this. It’s certainly a plus pitch.”

The soon-to-be 26-year-old’s most important pitch might be his change. Matsuzaka uses a forkball type grip and with his flawless arm action, he creates great deception in both speed and movement on the forkball.

I’d prefer not to call it a forkball, but apparently it’s more of a fork than a split, due to how deep the ball sits in Daisuke’s fingers. It’s more like a dead salmon being thrown 83-86 mph down at Pike Place, but instead of reaching the hands of the fish market gurus, it smacks a glass wall that we can’t see with the naked eye, and slides to the floor, uncatchable, unhittable.

“I agree, that’s got a good chance to be the most critical pitch for him in America,” said the AL scout. “Power arms with good change-ups can’t miss over here and he’s got the makings of a pretty good forkball.”

“I’d give it a 55 or 60, for now,” said the veteran scout. Most of this is, of course, based on how the pitches fared in Japan, since that’s pretty much all anyone has seen thus far.”

“It’s above average,” said the NL scout. “His arm speed is solid and the action is pretty good, but it’s a feel pitch and he does tend to lose a good feel for it at times. Sometimes it appears to be unavailable to him.”

Four above-average pitches, plus velo, good command, good arm speed… what else is there?

Lots.

“He’s not all about stuff,” said the NL scout. “He’s not a thrower – if he was, he wouldn’t be any good over here in the U.S. He thinks out there on the mound, and the key for me is the way hitters react to his pitches. They just don’t have good Abs and they are rarely locked in. That’s a great sign.”

Matsuzaka drew comparisons to Hideki Irabu in these conversations, based on Irabu’s Japanese success and the way he could intimidate hitters and force an uncomfortable experience in the box.

“Yeah, he’s got some of that,” said the AL scout. “But as you watch him start after start, it’s not just about the hitter not being confident – they aren’t – but he’ll drill a guy, he pitches inside, which is a bit rare over here.”

So, he’s pretty smart, confident, has no qualms about buying back the inner half of the plate.

Sign me up.

“I’d take him in heartbeat,” said the veteran scout. “I know we’re interested or I wouldn’t have spent so much time typing up all those reports. I’d pony up the dough if it was my money to give. He’s a terrific talent.

“The workload would worry me after 30 (years of age) or so, but not until then. And there aren’t many clubs in baseball that would allow him to surpass 125 pitches regularly, or go much past 215 innings, so he should be fine.

“I think he’s a strong No. 2 pitcher who will eat 200+ innings. He’ll dazzle at times and struggle in others. But the good will outnumber the tough ones by a large margin. He’s the best option on the market, and it’s not close.”

“I don’t know if I’d ever expect him to be a (number) one,” said the AL scout. “Not so much because he can’t, but why put pressure on him? Just wind him up and let him go, and keep a reasonable pitch count on him. Major League teams will probably prepare him for a little bit longer schedule, and his innings should be monitored.

“The work he’s got over here was pretty heavy for awhile and that is a factor with all pitchers. He’s a frontline arm with electric stuff and a ceiling as high as just about any righty in baseball.”

“It’s an easy question to answer. Get him a physical, jump for joy when he passes and shelter your $60 million investment. He’s a risk; I’d be worried, but only because of the financial venture. I wouldn’t bet on him breaking down anytime soon – he’s probably worth that risk, anyway, ya know? He’s a legit top-of-the-rotation type, though he may need some time to adjust to the ways of the American game - and it’s hitters.

“Say what you want about the Classic, but he’s never faced Manny and Papi one week, Thome, Konerko and Dye the next, and then Giambi, AROD and Matsui the next. The biggest thing to watch for is how the best hitters in the world react to his best, once they’ve seen him. That’s going to be his biggest challenge. It’s going to be tough, but there’s no doubt in my mind, or anyone else’s that I have spoken with, that he’ll be a success in Major League Baseball.”



Daisuke Matsuzaka, RHP – Seibu Lions

Born: 9-13-80
Bats/Throws: R-R
Ht/Wt: 6-0/205
Agent: Scott Boras

Tools:

4-Seam Fastball: 65+
Sits 91-94 mph, touches 95+ on rare occasions. Good movement, can tail away from lefties and in on righties. Slight downward plane keeps ball near bottom of zone.

2-Seamer: 65+
Sits 87-90 mph, has sinking, cutting action. Can change speeds on demand, improving pitch.

Curve Ball: 70
Sits 77-81 mph, sharp, late bite. Immediately one of best curves in game. Can adjust break to gain lateral movement like a slider with vertical break of typical curve. Good depth, consistent arm slot.

Forkball: 60
Usually 83-87 mph, split-finger type change-up. Baffling at times. Can change speeds effectively - and at will.

Delivery/Mechanics: 70
May have trouble holding runners in the states with his slow wind up, but doesn’t lose stuff from the stretch. Very consistent arm slot helps all of his pitches.

Straying Power: 65
He’s just 26 and though his workload is a popular issue, he’s showed very few signs of breaking down and there’s no reason to believe he won’t be very good through and beyind his original MLB contract, which is likely to be three years.

OFP: 70
There is no reason Matsuzaka won’t be a legit TOR starter who dominates at times.




Scott Boras is certainly going to want free agency granted after any three or four-year deal, rather than arbitration. It’s a simple procedure where the signing club contractually agrees to decline to offer arbitration at the end of the contract, making the player a free agent.

But three years at $10 million per? Sounds like he’s worth it.

The latest word, as of Tuesday night, was that so many clubs that were originally interested aren’t very confident about their chances, due to the full-blown efforts of the two heavy favorites, the Evil Empire and the Seattle Mariners.

Odds on the Winning Bid – Teams

Favorites : New York Yankees – 5-2, Seattle Mariners – 3-2.

Contenders: New York Mets – 10-1, Los Angeles Dodgers – 15-1, Boston Red Sox – 15-1 .

Long Shots: Texas Rangers – 25-1, Los Angeles Angels – 30-1, Chicago Cubs – 30-1, Chicago White Sox – 30-1, San Francisco Giants – 40-1, Philadelphia Phillies – 50-1, Baltimore Orioles – 50-1, Houston Astros – 75-1, St. Louis Cardinals – 75-1, Arizona Diamondbacks – 75-1, Detroit Tigers – 75-1, Atlanta Braves – 100-1, Toronto Blue Jays – 100-1.

Odds are based on the opinions of 11 baseball executives who have expressed their thoughts on the posting process, some publicly through a number of media sources, or via private conversations.

I can say this about the Seattle Mariners… they are PLANNING on winning the bid. But they also don’t want to be baited into going so high that it doesn’t make sense anymore.

My amateur advice would be to go hard after him, keep your plans close to the vest, but make sure that the financial investment doesn’t exceed the potential payoff. Both on and off the field of play.

Rumor has it that Matsuzaka’s first choice by far is to play in Seattle and the Mariners can offer more than any other team in all of baseball.

The money will be there wherever he ends up. You can argue, successfully, that on the surface the Yankees and other clubs can offer a better chance to win now, and a better shot at consistent postseason play, but the M’s aren’t that far away, especially if Daisuke joins the roster this winter.

The Yankees (Matsui), Dodgers (Nomo) and Angels (Hasegawa) have all had success with the Japanese stars, but the M’s blwo them all away with Ichiro, Sasaki, and the biggest advantage the M’s have, in regards to where Matsuzaka’s desires may lie.

Kenji Johjima, the M’s starting catcher, plays a large role in this process and several news reports, both recently and over the past year, have suggested that the idea of a Japanese-speaking catcher is a big part of why Matsuzaka sees Seattle as the best fit

Yeah, I know what you are thinking. This is a bidding war and Matsuzaka’s desires don’t really matter all that much, if at all.

I don’t buy into this blind bidding, not at all. I tryly think that if Matsuzaka wants to go to Seattle bad enough, that is who will “win” the bidding, some way, somehow… which leads me to the following:

Prediction: Seattle wins the rights to Daisuke Matsuzaka with a $28 million bid and signs him to a three-year contract worth about $11 million per season. The Mariners will not balk at Boras’ demands of free agency at the end of the pact.

WABronco
11-01-2006, 01:32 PM
Now there's rumblings from multiple sources that Seattle's not even entering a bid.

****.............

-Slap-
11-03-2006, 05:28 AM
And also, with Boras signing on as Matsuzaka's agent, that takes a good handful of teams out of the running as well.

Good thing Bill Bavasi (Seattle GM) has a good relationship with Mr. Boras...

They should handcuff Boras to Rosenhaus and drop them into the polar bear exhibit at the nearest zoo.

WABronco
11-03-2006, 10:20 PM
Hmmmmm

From an SI article:

"According to a source in Japan, Seattle was the team Matsuzaka least wanted to go to. That source said he believed Matsuzaka didn't want to play in Ichiro's shadow and would like to have his own spotlight. An executive with a team that may bid agreed that that's the impression he has, as well."

Whateva!

Jens1893
11-10-2006, 01:44 PM
The Boston Red Sox may have posted the top bid for the right to negotiate with Japanese right-hander Daisuke Matsuzaka, ESPN The Magazine's Buster Olney reported, citing Major League Baseball sources.

There has been no official announcement, and the Seibu Lions, Matsuzaka's team in Japan, have until Tuesday to accept or reject the high bid.

But Olney is reporting that the Red Sox may have posted the top bid with a figure between $38 million and $45 million, according to Major League Baseball officials who are monitoring the bidding.

Matsuzaka, who pitched for Japan's World Baseball Classic champions, is considered among the top prospects available this offseason.

If the Lions accept the top bid -- and according to the rules of the process, the team making the high bid is not disclosed to the Japanese team -- the winning bidder has 30 days to reach an agreement with Matsuzaka. If a deal cannot be reached, he would return to the Lions for the 2007 season and become a free agent in the spring of 2008.

WABronco
11-10-2006, 03:36 PM
45 million.....that's insane.

45 mil plus his contract...that could easily be more than 100 mil total.

Jens1893
11-14-2006, 08:38 PM
The Red Sox bid $51.1m

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2662193

Clockwork Orange
11-14-2006, 08:52 PM
The Red Sox bid $51.1m

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2662193

That's just insane.

WABronco
11-14-2006, 09:02 PM
In related news:

It appears Tampa Bay has won the bidding right for Japanese third baseman Akinori Iwamura. The Devil Rays reportedly outbid the Indians, San Diego and Boston for the left-handed hitter. The Yakult Swallows, Iwamura's club, are expected to announce the winning bid Wednesday or Thursday.

Bwahahahaha. Have fun in Tampa, sucker.

This is a tad interesting though, because TB is "set" at both 2nd and 3rd base. Unless they're planning on moving Upton to the OF and/or trading Crawford, it's hard to see the motive for this move...

WABronco
11-14-2006, 09:03 PM
That's just insane.

It is insane, but it's not like they have a limited cash flow.

Just guestimating, they're going to pay over 100 mil when all is said and done.

theAPAOps5
11-14-2006, 09:17 PM
It is insane, but it's not like they have a limited cash flow.

Just guestimating, they're going to pay over 100 mil when all is said and done.

Been a die-hard Red Sox fan since I was 6 years old. So here is my reason why they did that.

The only reason I think Boston bid for this guy was to snake him from the Yankees. He was coveted by the Yanks b/c they have abysmal pitching. So if the Sox can't negotiate a contract he stays in Japan. No matter what Boston keeps him out of NY. I think they treated this as their version of Johnny "Turncoat" Damon.

WABronco
11-14-2006, 09:32 PM
Been a die-hard Red Sox fan since I was 6 years old. So here is my reason why they did that.

The only reason I think Boston bid for this guy was to snake him from the Yankees. He was coveted by the Yanks b/c they have abysmal pitching. So if the Sox can't negotiate a contract he stays in Japan. No matter what Boston keeps him out of NY. I think they treated this as their version of Johnny "Turncoat" Damon.

That's right, but it's not like they don't need him. Their rotation is in shambles right now, and they could use a solid no. 2/3 to slot behind Schilling.

theAPAOps5
11-14-2006, 09:37 PM
That's right, but it's not like they don't need him. Their rotation is in shambles right now, and they could use a solid no. 2/3 to slot behind Schilling.

Oh I totally agree. They need a solid 2/3 pitcher in the rotation. But the Biggest problem is keeping Tek healthy. When he went down our season was done. He is one of the greatest pitch selection catchers of his era, he worked so closely with pitching that he got the rotation going even when they were struggling. He is amazing!

Hercules Rockefeller
11-14-2006, 10:04 PM
There's 2 reasons why they did this:
On-field: obvious
Off-field: You sign the guy, one of the most popular players in Japan is now on your team. Japan is a relatively untapped market for MLB, anyone believe any of these bidders didn't estimate how much more money they'll have coming back from Japan than before?

Pendejo
11-14-2006, 10:21 PM
Saw this video on yahoo. Didn't see it posted. Apparently it's a video of Matsuzaka's "gyro" pitch.

http://www.rotoauthority.com/files/gyroballvideo.mpeg

Jens1893
11-15-2006, 11:34 AM
That's just insane.

Why is that insane? Don´t you think it´s fair that, unlike hockey, a team that wants a player has to properly compensate the other team for allowing the player to get out of his contract? It´s a common thing here.

Smiling Assassin27
11-15-2006, 04:40 PM
Congrats on the next Hideki Irabu...

-Slap-
11-15-2006, 10:39 PM
Been a die-hard Red Sox fan since I was 6 years old. So here is my reason why they did that.

The only reason I think Boston bid for this guy was to snake him from the Yankees. He was coveted by the Yanks b/c they have abysmal pitching. So if the Sox can't negotiate a contract he stays in Japan. No matter what Boston keeps him out of NY. I think they treated this as their version of Johnny "Turncoat" Damon.

Many believe Boston placed a high bid to keep him out of New York, but they have no intention of actually signing him. There are provisions in place to ensure a "good faith effort" to sign him.

This has the potential to get very nasty.

Clockwork Orange
11-15-2006, 10:44 PM
The Yankees will simply respond by throwing megabucks at Zito or Schmidt.

Clockwork Orange
11-15-2006, 10:49 PM
Why is that insane? Don´t you think it´s fair that, unlike hockey, a team that wants a player has to properly compensate the other team for allowing the player to get out of his contract? It´s a common thing here.

Yes, I think that's insane. $51 million just for the right to negotiate with a player is ridiculous.

This wasn't about fair compensation, this was the Red Sox overcompensating because of their never ending case of penis envy when it comes to the Yankees.

Drek
11-19-2006, 08:36 AM
Many believe Boston placed a high bid to keep him out of New York, but they have no intention of actually signing him. There are provisions in place to ensure a "good faith effort" to sign him.

This has the potential to get very nasty.

I doubt it, they have all the negotiating leverage and priced a 26 year old ace potential starter this summer by giving Beckett a 3 year, $30M deal. If they offer anything near that you can't make an argument for it not being a good faith bid as Beckett is the same age as Matsuzaka, was controlled for the same number of years as Matsuzaka has remaining commitment to Seibu, and has a World Series MVP to show for his early career.

I don't find it that hard to understand why they bid so high really. The Yankees claim to make $5M a year in Japan annually since signing Matsui, and thats not counting any profits YES makes over there. Boras claims his Japanese sources cite the Yankees true profits to be in the area of $21M annually. I'm sure Boras is largely blowing smoke, but if you consider a middle ground there the Sox could recoup their bid pretty easily.

The big questions for Matsuzaka's negotiations is the length and his FA status post-contract. By MLB rules new Japanese players are considered rookies their first year and must acquire standard MLB service time for free agency. Hideki Matsui was a free agent and so got the Yankees to stipulate in the contract that they would decline arbitration, but Ichiro has been with the Mariners for pretty low money largely as a result of not having service time waived in his deal.

Boras is asking for the moon if he wants both a large payday and arbitration waived, I don't see any way he gets both.

OrangeShadow
11-19-2006, 06:53 PM
The Yankees will simply respond by throwing megabucks at Zito or Schmidt.

I didnt want zito anyway. a lefthanded flyball pitcher in fenway? no thanks

-Slap-
11-19-2006, 07:04 PM
If Zito is going to leave Oakland, he would do well to relocate into the National League.

elsid13
11-22-2006, 11:01 PM
I didnt want zito anyway. a lefthanded flyball pitcher in fenway? no thanks

Not a problem if the pitcher works the ball away for hitters and let the ball go to right center and mid right field, there is lots of space out there. I remember Bruce Hurst being pretty effective that way. But of course that depend on who the heck the right fielder is. I expect that we miss Nixon more then Theo believes we will.

OrangeShadow
11-28-2006, 02:02 PM
i dont know about nixon,i know he could play those angles better than a lot of players but he just doesnt stay healthy anymore and his power numbers were way down.
The move the sox should of made is signed gonzo but no,they have to pursue julio lugo :cuss:

sox did make an offer to matsuzaka somewhere in the 3 years at 8 or 9 a year with mutial 1 or 2 year options at the end

-Slap-
11-29-2006, 12:47 AM
sox did make an offer to matsuzaka somewhere in the 3 years at 8 or 9 a year with mutial 1 or 2 year options at the end

Boras' reaction: Hilarious! 4321~ :redbutt:

OrangeShadow
11-29-2006, 09:16 AM
well thats to bad,scott really doesnt have a lot of leverage here. Its not a good idea to take him back for another year in japan and he cant play teams off other teams so hes kind of limited

-Slap-
11-29-2006, 10:26 AM
He's got all the leverage in the world.

The Red Sox only did this to take this kid off the market and away from the Yankees, hence the lowball offer. The Red Sox obviously didn't realize how slowly 30 days can pass. Its only day 13 and the media and sports radio in Boston are already starting to hammer them.

OrangeShadow
11-29-2006, 10:33 AM
gammons said from the get go(and i agreed) it would go down tot he 29th day on the 23rd hour.

-Slap-
11-29-2006, 12:28 PM
gammons said from the get go(and i agreed) it would go down tot he 29th day on the 23rd hour.

It will go past that because they have no interest in signing him.

All they're accomplishing now is tying up their money.

elsid13
11-29-2006, 08:19 PM
It will go past that because they have no interest in signing him.

All they're accomplishing now is tying up their money.

Actually I don't think so. Theo and the rest of the front office were attempt to rebuild the starting pitching staff for a while. And is Lester hadn't got cancer maybe this move is made just hack off the Yankees. Right now this is the kind of move that I can see them pulling off, especial after the disaster from last year.

Jens1893
12-13-2006, 02:04 PM
Looks like they have an agreement as he´s currently travelling to Boston together with Boras, Epstein and other Boston officials.

24champ
12-13-2006, 02:38 PM
yeap

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6266048

elsid13
12-13-2006, 03:40 PM
Nice potential starting rotation. Still need a closer and middle relief. I can not believe they will go with Hanson as the closer right now.

OrangeShadow
12-13-2006, 04:26 PM
It will go past that because they have no interest in signing him.

All they're accomplishing now is tying up their money.

howd that prediction work out for ya?

24champ
12-13-2006, 08:19 PM
Um what is D-mat wearing? His girlfreind lend him a coat?

http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20061213/capt.mack10912132330.red_sox_matsuzaka_baseball_ma ck109.jpg