A Great Idea!

[Rohirrim]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/10/Dobbs.Oct11/index.html

I think this is a great idea. We can't seem to get the corruption out of Washington. The place is full of lobbyists, schemers, crooks, pervs, and every other kind of lowlife you can imagine - not to mention the politicians. ;D What's needed more than anything is campaign finance reform, and yet we know it will never happen. It's like trying to convince a pig to move away from the trough. Every policy put forward by both parties over the last thirty years has sold out working Americans and sold out America. The rich have gotten ten times richer - and so have the politicians. American wages have stagnated and jobs have gone offshore while the politicians give themselves raise, after raise, after raise. They've given themselves nine raises since the last time they raised the minimum wage. 80% of Americans want illegal immigration stopped, and yet the government refuses to do it. That ain't democracy, folks. The plan is so simple, it's brilliant: Everybody register as Independents.

[alkemical]

can i still **** on the steps of congress?

[Crushaholic]

Party affiliation is only important in the primaries. Registering as an Independent won't help at all. The problem is certainly money, but it's also the party whip on both sides. Politicians can't be independent thinkers if they have the leadership telling them what to do and threatening to leave them behind when doling out power positions if they don't obey them.

[yavoon]

I agree w/ dobbs on immigration. bush/democrats are totally screwing the will of the people on this one.

immigration is a bizarre issue though, because corporations love them(increases profits).

AND IN THEORY, socialists should hate them, decreases ability to handout benefits to the poor, keeps down wages and benefits.

BUT the liberals love immigration. and I think I know the reason, they know that w/ immigration they will not be able to give as many benefits to the poor and disenfranchised/unfortunate/whoever. BUT they also know they can still be the party "that does that." and w/ immigrants they will get more VOTES. so they dont mind if everyone is poorer if the votes increase.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

BUT the liberals love immigration. and I think I know the reason, they know that w/ immigration they will not be able to give as many benefits to the poor and disenfranchised/unfortunate/whoever. BUT they also know they can still be the party "that does that." and w/ immigrants they will get more VOTES. so they dont mind if everyone is poorer if the votes increase.

Wow, that's f_cking brilliant.

I didn't realize illegal immigrants could vote. :wave:

[loborugger]

There is a difference between legal and illegal immigrants and every study I have ever seen for any immigrant (I will emphasize legal, since we are splitting hairs) group is that they largely register and vote democrat.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

There is a difference between legal and illegal immigrants and every study I have ever seen for any immigrant (I will emphasize legal, since we are splitting hairs) group is that they largely register and vote democrat.

Any immigrant group?

That includes, well, most of us.

Are you sure this is your final answer?

[yavoon]

Wow, that's f_cking brilliant.

I didn't realize illegal immigrants could vote. :wave:

they do in california.

and its still besides the point, obviously they have to get here first before the dems can fight to get them the right to vote. and they can still impact the political landscape even w/o voting. and dont forget every illegal can pop out a kid(they lineup in hospitals to do this) and in 18 years he can collect his welfare check and start voting democrat.

typical one liner idiocy from u though.

[yavoon]

Any immigrant group?

That includes, well, most of us.

Are you sure this is your final answer?

no ability to discern larger points.

no wonder ur a democrat, u dont have a critical thinking bone in ur body.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

they do in california.

and its still besides the point, obviously they have to get here first before the dems can fight to get them the right to vote. and they can still impact the political landscape even w/o voting. and dont forget every illegal can pop out a kid(they lineup in hospitals to do this) and in 18 years he can collect his welfare check and start voting democrat.

typical one liner idiocy from u though.
You really don't a have a clue. Check out last elections and what percentage of the Latino vote Bush got.

How many Democrats are waving the Mexican flag? Your hero Bush does.

---------------------------------------
Bush Brandished Mexican Flag; Novak Says It May Signal 'Loyalty To A Foreign Power'

Think Progress | Posted April 4, 2006 10:33 PM
READ MORE: George W. Bush

In recent weeks, hundreds of thousands of demonstrators have taken to the streets all across the nation to protest right-wing immigration proposals. As Media Matters has documented, the fact that some demonstrators carry the Mexican flag has elicited the ire of conservative pundits. For example, Robert Novak has said:

"I am no hard-liner on immigration who wants to expel 11 million illegal immigrants, but flags are a symbol of national identity. The student brandishing the Mexican flag signals divided loyalty or perhaps loyalty to a foreign power."

But President Bush himself has publicly brandished the Mexican flag. ThinkProgress has obtained a copy of a five-minute ad that the 2004 Bush campaign distributed to Hispanic supporters. In the ad, Bush can be seen waving a Mexican flag while embracing a young girl. (Watch the full ad HERE.)
http://tinyurl.com/f9lku


http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/images/bush-mexican-flag-3.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

they do in california.

Illegal immigrants can vote in California?

Please enlighten us as to how this is so. (Links please.)


typical one liner idiocy from u though.

This from a semi-literate half-wit who can barely form a coherent sentence?

That's a good one. :laugh:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

no ability to discern larger points.

no wonder ur a democrat, u dont have a critical thinking bone in ur body.

The distiction/critical thinking problem is yours (not surprisingly.)

The following is the comment to which I responded:


every study I have I have ever seen for any immigrant (I will emphasize legal, since we are splitting hairs) group is that they largely register and vote democrat.

If you had the powers of attention and/or comprehension God gave a common house plant, you'd notice that the above comment is a blanket claim about "any immigrant group."

Now, one more time, slowly:

Do you still want to endorse the claim that "any immigrant group" votes Democrat?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

no wonder ur a democrat, u dont have a critical thinking bone in ur body.

Hilarious!

Yep - the party and president you support have distinguished themselves as true giants in the critical thinking arena.

Keep the thigh slappers coming, Kool-Aid Boy. :laugh:

[gunns]

BUT the liberals love immigration. and I think I know the reason, they know that w/ immigration they will not be able to give as many benefits to the poor and disenfranchised/unfortunate/whoever. BUT they also know they can still be the party "that does that." and w/ immigrants they will get more VOTES. so they dont mind if everyone is poorer if the votes increase.


Wow. Just wow

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Wow. Just wow

:laugh:

Dude needs to spray his brain with Lysol, huh?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Wow. Just wow
The voon is the poster boy for how the Neocon propaganda controls the 20 some percent left in this country that still worship Bush.

[spdirty]

heres an idea. Abolish the entire party system altogether. That way no politician is beholden to their party. Everyone can just vote and do what they think is right, instead of what their party pressures them to do/vote for.

Good post Ro

[yavoon]

The voon is the poster boy for how the Neocon propaganda controls the 20 some percent left in this country that still worship Bush.

this is all the left has is bully tactics. I dont even like bush, but because of where I stnad I "worship bush." AND EVEN STUPIDER, bush likes immigration! I mean thats the kicker in all this, is ur so ****ing dumb that u can't even equate the correct issues w/ ur political bashing. its like on an automated system of stupidity.

its sad and pathetic how far the left has gone away from any real ability to argue.

[yavoon]

Wow. Just wow

its how the party operates. they know gov't dependancy=democratic vote. its no great mystery. they foster gov't dependancy. and immigration is a great way to radically increase the amount of gov't dependancy.


its just reality. slap in the face eh?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

this is all the left has is bully tactics.

Hilarious!

This from a bush supporter?

My God, you made me laugh so hard I just about fell out of my chair. ROFL!

[yavoon]

Hilarious!

This from a bush supporter?

My God, you made me laugh so hard I just about fell out of my chair. ROFL!

"this is all the left has is bully tactics. I dont even like bush"


glad to see the literacy in the democratic party hasn't increased precipitously. it might endanger the constitutuency.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

glad to see the literacy in the democratic party hasn't increased precipitously. it might endanger the constitutuency(sic)

Hilarious!

You're about as qualified to evaluate literacy as your boy Foley is qualified to run a daycare center.

[sisterhellfyre]

heres an idea. Abolish the entire party system altogether. That way no politician is beholden to their party.

Interesting note... In the early days of the country, James Madison argued strongly that newly independent Americans should not form political parties, and even that political parties should be illegal.

Too bad he couldn't make it stick.

Regards,
m.

[defenseman]

they do in california.

and its still besides the point, obviously they have to get here first before the dems can fight to get them the right to vote. and they can still impact the political landscape even w/o voting. and dont forget every illegal can pop out a kid(they lineup in hospitals to do this) and in 18 years he can collect his welfare check and start voting democrat.

typical one liner idiocy from u though.

And you are paying for that kid. Congrats. Way off the deep end in your neck of the woods. Next thing you know, every non-english speaking person will have their own linguists. Pretty damn sad......dman

[defenseman]

Illegal immigrants can vote in California?

Please enlighten us as to how this is so. (Links please.)



This from a semi-literate half-wit who can barely form a coherent sentence?

That's a good one. :laugh:

Gee, we are just full of nice things to say don't ya know...dman

[defenseman]

Any immigrant group?

That includes, well, most of us.

Are you sure this is your final answer?

Most of us are born well past our immigration roots. Hundreds and hundreds of years ago. Sure, I've got some of the family tree from overseas, however, I was US born , not foreign born. I'm thinking we're embellishing it abit, stretching the definition a bit wouldn't you agree?..dman

[loborugger]

If you had the powers of attention and/or comprehension God gave a common house plant, you'd notice that the above comment is a blanket claim about "any immigrant group."


Dude, what kinda house plants are we talking about here? Are you are talking about Begonias or Philodendrens? Cause they are just plain stupid. However, Geraniums, well that is a different story all together. I read an article about an old woman that trained her Geraniums. One even saved her life. True story.

On the other hand, I think only God knows the God given comprehension of a houseplant. So, its an unfair comparision.

Seriously...

What is up with the personal attacks? Look at your contributions to the thread. First Yavoon posts something about immigrants voting, and the first you post is "****ing brilliant." I point out that he didnt mention the word illegal and you quote me twice comparing my intellect to a house plant.

I think you need a big hug.

As for my statement... legal immigrants are known to register and vote democratic more often than any other party. Learned that in Poli Sci 101. Dont think its changed since then.

Now as for the point that we are all immigrants... Ya, I guess so. Following that arguement, everyone on the British Isles is an immigrant, too. It all depends on how ridicilously large you want to make the definition for the word. However, Dictionary.com defines an immigrant as "a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence." Therefore, all of us born here would be counted out of this category.

[defenseman]

Dude, what kinda house plants are we talking about here? Are you are talking about Begonias or Philodendrens? Cause they are just plain stupid. However, Geraniums, well that is a different story all together. I read an article about an old woman that trained her Geraniums. One even saved her life. True story.

On the other hand, I think only God knows the God given comprehension of a houseplant. So, its an unfair comparision.

Seriously...

What is up with the personal attacks? Look at your contributions to the thread. First Yavoon posts something about immigrants voting, and the first you post is "****ing brilliant." I point out that he didnt mention the word illegal and you quote me twice comparing my intellect to a house plant.

I think you need a big hug.

As for my statement... legal immigrants are known to register and vote democratic more often than any other party. Learned that in Poli Sci 101. Dont think its changed since then.

Now as for the point that we are all immigrants... Ya, I guess so. Following that arguement, everyone on the British Isles is an immigrant, too. It all depends on how ridicilously large you want to make the definition for the word. However, Dictionary.com defines an immigrant as "a person who migrates to another country, usually for permanent residence." Therefore, all of us born here would be counted out of this category.


:thumbsup: Nice take:thumbsup: ......dman

[Bronco_Beerslug]

:thumbsup: Nice take:thumbsup: ......dman
It's BS take take rendered pointless since he only points out one side, failing to point out the other side (voon goon) is far more proficient at name calling with anyone who disagrees with him.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I point out that he didnt mention the word illegal and you quote me twice comparing my intellect to a house plant.

No. I was comparing your pal yavoon's intellect to that of a house plant.


As for my statement... legal immigrants are known to register and vote democratic more often than any other party.

But you said "any" immigrant group.

I asked you if this was your final answer.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It's BS take take rendered pointless since he only points out one side, failing to point out the other side (voon goon) is far more proficient at name calling with anyone who disagrees with him.

Exactly.

They can always dish it out, but they sure can't take it.

[yavoon]

notice the discrepancy in information between normal ppl and psycho wingnut bush haters. I count a bunch of posts by normal ppl which actually add to the conversation, make points, have full and complete thoughts. and from the other side? at best pedantry and one line insults.

they must be running out of links they can find to do their arguing for them.

[yavoon]

oh and for LABF. are u contending that illegals dont vote? I'm just wondering, because when ppl ask me for "proof" if I get it, I expect them to be properly humbled. I dont like just being badgered for the sake of it. so I'm gna assume ur stupid enough to think illegals dont vote and not malicious enough to just be a weenie(now thats a gamble).

oh and this:

The politicization of the INS continued in the 2000 election. As documented by journalist Joseph Farah ,on Nov. 6, 2000, (one day before the national election) the California Democratic Party sent thousands (upwards of 4 million by some estimates) of mailers out to immigrants who had citizenship requests before the INS. These non-citizens were informed, in both English and Spanish, that they were registered to vote as a Democrat and given a special identification card to "help...voting go more smoothly." Follow up investigations by the press pointed to the possible use of INS records to commit this massive voter fraud. How many of the recipients took advantage of the generous offer made by the Democrats is unknown, but based on the estimates it is quite possible that Gore's much touted popular vote win (by just under a million votes) could all be attributed to this scam alone. Flaws in the system continue to be used and expanded upon to give the Left an unfair advantage in elections and to undermine the legitimacy of our most fundamental American right.


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=10187

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

oh and for LABF. are u contending that illegals dont vote? I'm just wondering, because when ppl ask me for "proof" if I get it, I expect them to be properly humbled.

You claimed that illegal immigrants can vote in California.

The burden to prove this claim is on you.

Please direct us to the relevant legal statutes.

[yavoon]

You claimed that illegal immigrants can vote in California.

The burden to prove this claim is on you.

Please direct us to the relevant legal statutes.

haha now ur just chopping my post up. god, could u be more intellectually dishonest? this is a pathetic display, even for u. look its NOT my fault u were dumb enough to believe illegals couldn't vote.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

haha now ur just chopping my post up. god, could u be more intellectually dishonest? this is a pathetic display, even for u. look its NOT my fault u were dumb enough to believe illegals couldn't vote.

Oh - are you referring to the piece you just posted from a right-wing propaganda mill?

For a minute there I thought you were going to try to provide some actual proof that illegal immigrants were allowed to vote or had actually voted in CA.

[yavoon]

Oh - are you referring to the piece you just posted from a right-wing propaganda mill?

For a minute there I thought you were going to try to provide some actual proof that illegal immigrants were allowed to vote or had actually voted in CA.

oh so now u slander the source? even though it refers to actual stories and actual laws.

my dog could out argue u.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

oh so now u slander the source? even though it refers to actual stories and actual laws.

my dog could out argue u.

You make some wild claim about Democrats making it possible for illegal immigrants to vote, all you have to substantiate this claim is a piece from some right-wing propaganda site (no secondary source or confirmation from any mainstream news source) and you expect us to take you seriously?

What a knee slapper. :rofl:

[yavoon]

You make some wild claim about Democrats making it possible for illegal immigrants to vote, all you have to substantiate this claim is a piece from some right-wing propaganda site (no secondary source or confirmation from any mainstream news source) and you expect us to take you seriously?

What a knee slapper. :rofl:

do u contend that any of the news stories and/or laws they talk about are untrue?

ur only tactic is slander, slander the ppl u argue w/, slander the source. thats all u have. ur like a one trick pony. why do u even bother arguing? I could make a program that could argue ur side for u, give u more time to seeth over bush.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

do u contend that any of the news stories and/or laws they talk about are untrue?

Do you have any other source besides this right-wing propaganda mill to confirm your claims?

Do you have actual proof that illegal immigrants voted in the 2000 election?

ur only tactic is slander, slander the ppl u argue w/, slander the source. thats all u have. ur like a one trick pony. why do u even bother arguing? I could make a program that could argue ur side for u, give u more time to seeth over bush.

Bullsh_t.

My "tactic" is no different than that of any of your right-wing buddies on this board.

If I were to make a claim like yours and offer only a single, left-leaning source to back it up, the right-wingers here would cry foul like you wouldn't believe.

[yavoon]

Do you have any other source besides this right-wing propaganda mill to confirm your claims?

Do you have actual proof that illegal immigrants voted in the 2000 election?



Bullsh_t.

My "tactic" is no different than that of any of your right-wing buddies on this board.

If I were to make a claim like yours and offer only a single, left-leaning source to back it up, the right-wingers here would cry foul like you wouldn't believe.


so now ur saying ur as dumb as some unnamed "buddies" I have somewhere on the board.

"yah well I'm as stupid as some ppl who sort of agree w/ u on some political issues."
-LABF

like I said, the article mentioned real laws and real stories. if u want u can discount any editorializing u dont like.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

so now ur saying ur as dumb as some unnamed "buddies" I have somewhere on the board.

No. I'm pointing out that there's one set of rules for liberals and another, entirely different set for you and your right-wing buddies where sources are concerned.

I'm pointing out that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

"yah well I'm as stupid as some ppl who sort of agree w/ u on some political issues."
-LABF

Says the bullsh_t artist who still hasn't provided anything to prove his claim that illegal immigrants in CA, with the help of Democrats, voted in the 2000 elections.

You can't even provide us with one additional source to support the claims made by the right-wing propaganda mill you cited.

like I said, the article mentioned real laws and real stories. if u want u can discount any editorializing u dont like.

Then you should have no trouble providing some mainstream sources to confirm your claims.

[yavoon]

No. I'm pointing out that there's one set of rules for liberals and another, entirely different set for you and your right-wing buddies where sources are concerned.

I'm pointing out that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.



Says the bullsh_t artist who still hasn't provided anything to prove his claim that illegal immigrants in CA, with the help of Democrats, voted in the 2000 elections.

You can't even provide us with one additional source to support the claims made by the right-wing propaganda mill you cited.



Then you should have no trouble providing some mainstream sources to confirm your claims.

same bull****, different post. now ur claiming victimization? are u being victimized by my "buddies" again.

"not only am I as dumb as ppl who share some of ur political views, but they totally aren't fair to me!"
-LABF

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

same bull****, different post. now ur claiming victimization? are u being victimized by my "buddies" again.

There you go with the same old, tired right-wing spin we've already heard from Rehab Rush a million times: Anyone who thinks rules of debate should be applied equally to both sides is just playing "victim."

A third-grade child could spot the fallacies you keep flinging against the wall in the hope that something will stick.


"not only am I as dumb as ppl who share some of ur political views, but they totally aren't fair to me!"
-LABF

You have it bass-ackwards again (seems to be a pattern for you.)

You can't even adhere to the same standards for providing sources upon which your fellow right-wing jackalopes never fail to insist.

How "dumb" is that?

[yavoon]

There you go with the same old, tired right-wing spin we've already heard from Rehab Rush a million times: Anyone who thinks rules of debate should be applied equally to both sides is just playing "victim."

A third-grade child could spot the fallacies you keep flinging against the wall in the hope that something will stick.



You have it bass-ackwards again (seems to be a pattern for you.)

You can't even adhere to the same standards for providing sources upon which your fellow right-wing jackalopes never fail to insist.

How "dumb" is that?

I'm not responsible for any other posters on this forum LABF. ur gna have to deal w/ that, hell I bet most of them dont even agree w/ me on that many issues.

like I said though, I like ur idea, "I'm just as dumb as some unnamed "buddies" u have. not only that but they treat me unfairly!"

its fun to see someone try something so insanely stupid. slander, slander, slander, its all u got. its all u've ever had. whether its slander me, slander my imaginary buddies, slander my sources. its like ur throwing so much **** against a wall even if none of it sticks the mere pile will cover the view of the wall.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm not responsible for any other posters on this forum LABF. ur gna have to deal w/ that, hell I bet most of them dont even agree w/ me on that many issues.

like I said though, I like ur idea, "I'm just as dumb as some unnamed "buddies" u have. not only that but they treat me unfairly!"

its fun to see someone try something so insanely stupid. slander, slander, slander, its all u got. its all u've ever had. whether its slander me, slander my imaginary buddies, slander my sources. its like ur throwing so much **** against a wall even if none of it sticks the mere pile will cover the view of the wall.

I'll take the foregoing incoherent tripe to mean "no, I can't provide an unbiased or mainstream source to back up my claim about illegal immigrants voting in CA."

[defenseman]

I'm not responsible for any other posters on this forum LABF. ur gna have to deal w/ that, hell I bet most of them dont even agree w/ me on that many issues.

like I said though, I like ur idea, "I'm just as dumb as some unnamed "buddies" u have. not only that but they treat me unfairly!"

its fun to see someone try something so insanely stupid. slander, slander, slander, its all u got. its all u've ever had. whether its slander me, slander my imaginary buddies, slander my sources. its like ur throwing so much **** against a wall even if none of it sticks the mere pile will cover the view of the wall.

Yavoon. You are wasting your time...dman

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yavoon. You are wasting your time...dman

True to form, dman co-signs his fellow dittohead's BS - even when the latter is wrong about something.

[defenseman]

True to form, dman co-signs his fellow dittohead's BS - even when the latter is wrong about something.

It doesn't matter if he's wrong or right in the case of responding to you LABF. Quite simply, he truly is wasting his time having a discussion with ya. It's your way or the highway, and throw in a couple of sharp barbs or innuendos or open your umbrella to cover everyone who doesn't think your way. Ask the folks on this board, you'll find if they give a truthful answer, the majority will agree. Bottom line, he is wasting his time having a debate with you, not because you are better prepared, because you quite simply believe you are and cannot possibly be wrong. Just an observation. It's obvious to me your sense of humor is pretty good actually, but as far as debate goes, you have to be correct, under all circumstances. Well, in any case, have a wonderful day......dman

*Ever attend Columbia University?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It doesn't matter if he's wrong or right in the case of responding to you LABF. Quite simply, he truly is wasting his time having a discussion with ya. It's your way or the highway, and throw in a couple of sharp barbs or innuendos or open your umbrella to cover everyone who doesn't think your way.

There you go trying to reduce matters of fact and questions of truth vs. falsehood to mere matters of opinion again.

Such flagrant efforts to confuse these categories are precisely why you have so little credibility here.


Bottom line, he is wasting his time having a debate with you, not because you are better prepared, because you quite simply believe you are and cannot possibly be wrong.

Hilarious!

This from a staunch defender of a *president (and party) whose #1 rule of engagement is "never admit you're wrong about anything/never apologize?"

This might just be the funniest, most pot/kettle/black-ish thing I've heard you say.

*Ever attend Columbia University?

It's just you and GeeDubya vs. those damn people with brains, eh? :D