NK to test Nuke

[Hotrod]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-10-03T122519Z_01_TKV002561_RTRUKOC_0_US-KOREA-NORTH-NUCLEAR.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

"By Jonathan Thatcher

SEOUL (Reuters) - Reclusive North Korea said on Tuesday it would conduct its first-ever nuclear test, blaming a U.S. "threat of nuclear war and sanctions" for forcing its hand.

The statement by North Korea's foreign ministry, which was carried on the official KCNA News Agency, was immediately condemned by Japan as called "totally unforgivable".

Its announcement capped weeks of rumors that the Stalinist state was planning a test and came amid increasingly bitter relations with the outside world after it test-fired missiles in July.


"The U.S. extreme threat of a nuclear war and sanctions and pressure compel the DPRK (North Korea) to conduct a nuclear test, an essential process for bolstering nuclear deterrent, as a corresponding measure for defense," the statement said.

But it added that North Korea would never use nuclear weapons first and would "do its utmost to realize the denuclearization of the peninsula and give impetus to the worldwide nuclear disarmament and the ultimate elimination of nuclear weapons".

Analysts say North Korea probably has enough fissile material to make 6 to 8 nuclear bombs but probably does not have the technology to make one small enough to mount on a missile.

Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Aso was quoted by Kyodo News Agency as calling the planned test "totally unforgivable" and warning that the international community would respond harshly.

Officials in North Korea's two other major neighbors -- China and South Korea -- gave no immediate reaction to the report"

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Well thats nice Russian bombers off our coast......NK testing Nukes.......China increasingly less dependant on us as a trade parterner.......Iran moving forward with enrichment..........Iraq still a mess..........Syria threatining to take the Golan hights by force..............Muslims calling for the death of the pope..............Hugo making arms deals with China.............Children being gunned down in schools...............Chefs win a game.................

What say you do Humans now officially suck or what???

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You can thank Bush for spurring them on. Most of the planet now feels they have to try and protect themselves from the United States.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You can thank Bush for spurring them on.

And for sitting on his ass and doing nothing while NK developed them on his watch.

Blame Bush for North Korea's Nukes

A few hours ago North Korea announced it had nukes. This was no surprise. Immediately after this announcement many on the Right Blogosphere blamed Bill Clinton (see random examples here, here, and here). This also was no surprise. These people are ignorant of what really happened in North Korea in the 1990s and on the Bush Junior Watch, and they form opinons in ignorance. No surprise.

For a detailed history of North Korea and its nuclear program from 1977 to 1999, I recommend this timeline maintained by the Monterey Institute of International Studies. But here is the highly simplified version:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030202045212/cns.miis.edu/research/korea/nuc/iaea7789.htm

When Bill Clinton became president in 1993 he inherited a ton of unresolved messes from Poppy Bush. Somalia got most of the headlines, but North Korea was a mess, also. In 1992 the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) had conducted some inspections in North Korea, but chief inspector Hans Blix suspected the North Koreans were hiding some stuff and fibbing about other stuff.

http://web.archive.org/web/20030202060624/cns.miis.edu/research/korea/nuc/iaea92.htm

Throughout 1993 North Korea and the IAEA inspectors engaged in major head butting. The IAEA said North Korea had more uranium and plutonium fuel than it was admitting to. Also, the U.S. announced that it had intelligence, some from satellite photos, that there was a lot of nuclear-waste-related activity going on in North Korea that had been concealed from the IAEA. Details here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030202055442/cns.miis.edu/research/korea/nuc/iaea93.htm

Although North Korea had both uranium and plutonium, it was the plutonium that really worried everyone. In the nuclear weapons biz there is a huge difference between plutonium and uranium that news stories don't always make clear. Very basically, you need vast amounts of uranium and years and years of processing in order to get enough nuclear stuff to make a bomb. But plutonium is nearly ready to use out of the box, so to speak.

The biggest point of ignorance on the part of the righties has to do with the distinction between plutonium and uranium, and as I said, lots of journalists, and also lots of politicians, are not clear about this, either. But now you are informed.

So, even though North Korea had both uranium and plutonium, it was the plutonium that concerned the rest of the world. The North Koreans were thought to be years away from doing much with the uranium. But by 1993 it was believed North Korea already had enough plutonium in the can, so to speak, for at least one nuclear weapon.

In 1994, western intelligence sources realized that a reprocessing complex being built at Yongbyon included a gas graphite reactor designed specifically for separating plutonium from nuclear waste. This scared the stuffing out of lots of people. The IAEA believed North Korea was hiding more plutonium somewhere. And then North Korea announced it was restricting IAEA inspections. Matters came to a head in June 1994, when North Korea relinquished its IAEA membership and all the inspectors cleared out of the country.

http://web.archive.org/web/20021226021228/cns.miis.edu/research/korea/nuc/iaea94.htm

But then along came Jimmy. In June 1994, former President Carter went to North Korea to negotiate with Kim Il Sung, president of North Korea. These negotiations were a great success.

http://www.armscontrol.org/factsheets/agreedframework.asp

North Korea committed to freezing its plutonium weapons program in exchange for two proliferation-resistant nuclear reactors and other aid. As President Carter explained,

Responding to a standing invitation from North Korean President Kim Il Sung and with the approval of President Bill Clinton, I went to Pyongyang and helped to secure an agreement that North Korea would cease its nuclear program at Yongbyon and permit I.A.E.A. inspectors to return to the site to assure that the spent fuel was not reprocessed. In return, the United States and our allies subsequently assured the North Koreans that there would be no nuclear threat to them, that a supply of fuel oil would be provided to replace the power lost by terminating the Yongbyon nuclear program and that two modern nuclear plants would also be provided, with their fuel supplies to be monitored by international inspectors. [Carter, "Engaging North Korea," The New York Times, October 27, 2002]

And, in spite of what the righties will tell you, the North Koreans kept this agreement. The plutonium processing at Yongbyon and elsewhere stopped, and IAEA inspectors were allowed back into North Korea. The plutonium processors were sealed with IAEA seals.

This doesn't mean all was peaches and cream with North Korea. Kim Il Sung died in July 1994 and was replaced by his dumber and nuttier son, Kim Jong Il. Head butting and game playing between North Korea and the IAEA continued. In 1998 there were rumors the North Koreans had broken the IAEA seals on the plutonium processors, but inspectors confirmed the seals were still in place. Many western intelligence agencies believed North Korea had resumed processing uranium, however. Consensus was that this situation required watching but was not an immediate concern. Also in 1998, North Korea tested a long-range ballistic missiles.

On the other hand, South Korean President Kim Dae Jung, elected in 1998, began a "Sunshine Policy" to lessen tensions and build reconciliation between North and South Korea. In June 2000 the North and South Korean leaders held a historic three-day summit in Pyongyang, the first such contact in 50 years. They signed a pact in which they agreed to work toward reunification. Kim Dae Jung was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2000.

So here's where we stood when Bush II became President: Kim Jong Il was (and remains) a genuinely horrible leader whose people were starving, and western intelligence agencies at least suspected he was processing uranium. But relations with South Korea were improving, the IAEA was still inspecting, and the plutonium processors were still sealed.

But then there was Bush.

Kim Dae Jung came to Washington in March 2001 to pay respects to the new U.S. President Bush and ask for his support for the Sunshine Policy. And what happened?

Bush dissed him, that's what. The arrogant little twerp snubbed a Nobel Prize winner and friend to America. And when word of the snub reached North Korea, the "Sunshine Policy" died.

The late, great Mary McGrory wrote:

We should perhaps remember that President Bush has never liked talking to Koreans. His first overseas visitor was the estimable Kim Dae Jung, whom Bush snubbed.

Bush, as he was eager to demonstrate, was not a fan. Kim's sin? He was instituting a sunshine policy with the North, ending a half-century of estrangement. Bush, who looked upon North Korea as the most potent argument for his obsession to build a national missile defense, saw Kim, a Nobel Peace Prize winner, as nothing but trouble. He sent him home humiliated and empty-handed. [McGrory, "Bush's Moonshine Policy," The Washington Post, December 29, 2002; emphasis added].

As a reaction to Bush's unexpected hard-line stance, North Korea cancelled scheduled reconciliation talks with South Korea.

Tomorrow, come back for Part II, in which Bush's continued carelessness and arrogance finally pushed North Korea into resuming plutonium processing. I'll also explain how really bad reporting gave the impression that the deterioration of relations with North Korea was the fault of the Clinton Administration.

Continued: http://www.mahablog.com/oldsite/id34.html

[BKK]

You can thank Bush for spurring them on. Most of the planet now feels they have to try and protect themselves from the United States.

HA HA HA HA HA HA! Your killing me! Bush's fault? Ha!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

HA HA HA HA HA HA! Your killing me! Bush's fault? Ha!
Hey look, it's one of the long lost Bush supporters the other thread was talking about. Show me how Bush and the Neocon's imperialistic actions haven't embolden the rest of the planet against us.

[fido]

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-10-03T122519Z_01_TKV002561_RTRUKOC_0_US-KOREA-NORTH-NUCLEAR.xml&src=rss&rpc=22

Chefs win a game.................


:notworthy

Inevitably, other nation states will have nuke technology. It's over 60 years old now.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

HA HA HA HA HA HA! Your killing me! Bush's fault? Ha!

Here's a foreign affairs quiz:

(1) How many nuclear weapons did North Korea produce in Bill Clinton's eight years of office?

(2) How many nuclear weapons has it produced so far in President Bush's four years in office?

The answer to the first question, by all accounts, is zero. The answer to the second is fuzzier, but about six.

The total will probably rise in coming months, for North Korea has shut down its Yongbyon reactor and says that it plans to extract the fuel rods from it. That will give it enough plutonium for two or three more weapons.

The single greatest failure of the Bush administration's foreign policy concerns North Korea. Mr. Bush's policies toward North Korea have backfired and led the North to churn out nuclear weapons, and they have also antagonized our allies and diminished America's stature in Asia.

The upshot is that there's a significantly greater risk of another Korean War, a greater likelihood that other Asian countries, like Japan, will eventually go nuclear as well, and a greater risk that terrorists will acquire plutonium or uranium.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/26/op...erland&emc=rss

[alkemical]

clinton signed the transfer agreement for rumsfields company (when he was ceo) to sell NK light water nuke reactors.

so really, we f'd ourselves again!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

clinton signed the transfer agreement for rumsfields company (when he was ceo) to sell NK light water nuke reactors.

so really, we f'd ourselves again!

Those reactors were good for power only - not for producing weapons-grade plutonium.

The deal kept NK from pursuing the latter.

[Spider]

NK having Nukes is worse then my spelling .......

[ant1999e]

You can thank Bush for spurring them on. Most of the planet now feels they have to try and protect themselves from the United States.

"Guess what pinhead, we CAN'T stop them from getting nukes just like we CAN'T stop Iran from continuing their nuclear weapon program. And another little tidbit for you, we don't have the RIGHT to stop them from continuing their nuclear programs."
Isn't that right Beerslug.

[Spider]

Far be it from me to mention Embargo ......

[ant1999e]

Those reactors were good for power only - not for producing weapons-grade plutonium.

The deal kept NK from pursuing the latter.

Didn't keep them from pursuing the latter for very long.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"Guess what pinhead, we CAN'T stop them from getting nukes just like we CAN'T stop Iran from continuing their nuclear weapon program. And another little tidbit for you, we don't have the RIGHT to stop them from continuing their nuclear programs."
Isn't that right Beerslug.

So is the following just more hot air from the failed administration you're blowing then, dipsh*t?

US wont live with nukes in NK period

http://reuters.myway.com/article/200...-NORTH-DC.html

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States will not live with a nuclear-armed North Korea, assistant secretary of State Chris Hill said on Wednesday.

Hill refused to say exactly what steps the United States might take to ensure that North Korea did not succeed in testing a weapon but promised "we will do all we can to dissuade the DPRK from this test."

"We are not going to live with a nuclear North Korea, we are not going to accept it," Hill told the U.S.-Korea Institute, which is part of the Johns Hopkins University.

North Korea, which had said previously that it had nuclear bombs, said on Tuesday it would conduct its first nuclear test."

[Spider]

EMBARGO

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Didn't keep them from pursuing the latter for very long.

Bullsh*t. :bs:

The agreement kept NK from pursuing a nuclear weapon or weapons-grade plutonium from 1994 until Bush took office and started up with his asinine cowboy rhetoric.

If you can't get your facts straight, then you have no business participating in this discussion.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Isn't that right Beerslug.

Now you're starting to understand. Bush has speeded up every country's weapons program on the planet that thinks we will attack them and with good reason.

[baja]

Wonder what Bush senior thinks of junior's presidency?

[defenseman]

clinton signed the transfer agreement for rumsfields company (when he was ceo) to sell NK light water nuke reactors.

so really, we f'd ourselves again!

Ultimately, as a country we've made our mistakes with this group of deviates. However, I blame the North Koreans for their stance presently, and only them. They could play nicey if they really wanted to, but choose not to be nice. Their bag. No different than the true islamists extemists. They are responsible for their own actions, and should be held accountable for their actions.....dman

[Hotrod]

EMBARGO

LOL what ;D

[alkemical]

Ultimately, as a country we've made our mistakes with this group of deviates. However, I blame the North Koreans for their stance presently, and only them. They could play nicey if they really wanted to, but choose not to be nice. Their bag. No different than the true islamists extemists. They are responsible for their own actions, and should be held accountable for their actions.....dman

Dman,

The krishna's taught me that violence is not just a physical action.

So when you give a homeless drunk money for food - he will not buy food. But if you buy food and give it to him, that is more nobel, or better yet give him some honest work and then feed him.


I hope you understand what i mean by this little analogy.

[Hotrod]

I once gave a homeless man a few dollars because he flat out said he wanted a drink. Thats noble since neither of us were trying to lie to ourselves???

[defenseman]

Dman,

The krishna's taught me that violence is not just a physical action.

So when you give a homeless drunk money for food - he will not buy food. But if you buy food and give it to him, that is more nobel, or better yet give him some honest work and then feed him.


I hope you understand what i mean by this little analogy.

Save me the time and put it on the table for consumption...dman

[alkemical]

I once gave a homeless man a few dollars because he flat out said he wanted a drink. Thats noble since neither of us were trying to lie to ourselves???

actually there is some honesty in that......

[alkemical]

Save me the time and put it on the table for consumption...dman



We knew they were a problem - and we gave them the tech anyway - we also knew that NK & Iran had trade agreements.

1+1= duh!

[Hotrod]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/10/04/nkorea.nuclear.unresponse/index.html

By Elise Labott
CNN
Adjust font size:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. envoy to stalled North Korea nuclear talks says the United States will not tolerate a nuclear North Korea and has warned Pyongyang not to test a nuclear weapon.

"We are not going to live with a nuclear North Korea," Assistant Secretary of State Chris Hill told the U.S.-Korea Institute at Johns Hopkins University Wednesday. "We are not going to accept it."

North Korea "can have a future, or it can have these weapons. It cannot have both," Hill said. The U.S. and its allies "are in a very tense time" in dealing with Pyongyang, Hill added. (Watch the U.S. look into the veracity of North Korea's claim of a planned nuclear test -- 1:56 )

South Korea, meanwhile, warned North Korea's stance could trigger a regional atomic arms race that could upend the balance of power in Northeast Asia.

Any display of Pyongyang's nuclear force could prompt Japan to go nuclear and trigger a regional arms race, South Korean Vice Foreign Minister Yu Myung-hwan said Wednesday, according to The Associated Press. (Watch how North Korea is justifying its planned nuclear test -- 3:37 )

Speaking to lawmakers, Yu said such a North Korean nuclear test "could provide a pretext for Japan's nuclear armament."

"This will prompt countermoves by China or Russia and lead to a change in the balance of power in Northeast Asia," AP reports Yu saying.

Hill said that on Tuesday the United States passed a message "of deep concern" about a possible test to Pyongyang through the North Korean mission to the United Nations, which serves as a contact between the two governments, but did not receive an answer.

"We will do all we can to dissuade the DPRK [North Korea] from this test," Hill said.

He declined to say exactly what the United States would do if North Korea undertakes such a test, but said, "we would have no choice but to act resolutely to make sure that the DPRK understood -- and to make sure that any other country understands -- that this (nuclear test) is a very bad mistake."

If North Korea does conduct a test, it "will realize that they had a bad day when they made that choice," he said.

After his appearance, Hill told reporters, "if they think that firing off a weapon will somehow make them a part of some sort of nuclear club, they should think again."

"If they think that by exploding a weapon, that somehow we will come to terms with it, we won't," he said.

Citing U.S. belligerence and pressure, North Korea said Tuesday that a nuclear test was in the works. (Pyongyang's statement)

North Korea's announcement came in the form of a Foreign Ministry statement published by the Korean Central News Agency, or KCNA -- the communist country's official news agency.

"The field of scientific research of the DPRK will in the future conduct a nuclear test under the condition where safety is firmly guaranteed," the statement said.

The ministry added, "The U.S. extreme threat of a nuclear war and sanctions and pressure compel the DPRK to conduct a nuclear test ... as a corresponding measure for defense."

A date and time for the test was not issued.

A flurry of diplomatic activity has taken place since the North Korean announcement. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has reached out to her counterparts in Asia, and U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations John Bolton has been meeting with members of the U.N. Security Council about a possible statement urging North Korea not to take any provocative action by testing a nuclear weapon.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said talks were under way with with the DPRK to convince it to "abstain from any steps that may aggravate the situation."

Japan on Wednesday pressed a divided U.N. Security Council to adopt a statement urging North Korea to cancel its planned test and return immediately to six-party talks aimed at persuading Pyongyang to scrap its nuclear weapons program.

[alkemical]

why is it i hear timpani drums playing in the background.....

[Hotrod]

Yep sounds like MAYBE they are sending out signals to prepare the citizens so they are not so surprised when/if we lob some missles that way. The problem is Kim-little-dong is nuts. He may order an all out offensive at SK and our soldiers there. Very dangerous and hope the admin/generals etc think long and hard before jumping in this thing.

[defenseman]

We knew they were a problem - and we gave them the tech anyway - we also knew that NK & Iran had trade agreements.

1+1= duh!

Yep. Like I said, we have made mistakes with these malcontents. However, ultimately they are the deviates. we need to learn from our mistakes, hopefully, and deal with them as they really are from now on. Hindsight is 20/20, learn from it and don't make the same mistake. From my perspective, they(NK) are the issue. Pointing fingers just doesn't get it done anymore now does it and I'm sick of the both parties pointing the finger at each other blaming the other for whatever. They(repubs/dems) act like grade school kids taddle taleing to the teacher, damn immature little children. Fix the problem, move on....dman

[Hotrod]

Yep. Like I said, we have made mistakes with these malcontents. However, ultimately they are the deviates. we need to learn from our mistakes, hopefully, and deal with them as they really are from now on. Hindsight is 20/20, learn from it and don't make the same mistake. From my perspective, they(NK) are the issue. Pointing fingers just doesn't get it done anymore now does it and I'm sick of the both parties pointing the finger at each other blaming the other for whatever. They(repubs/dems) act like grade school kids taddle taleing to the teacher, damn immature little children. Fix the problem, move on....dman

Very good post

[baja]

If someone asks me for money he gets it and I do not judge what he might do with it. It is enough that he asked.

[Hotrod]

If someone asks me for money he gets it and I do not judge what he might do with it. It is enough that he asked.

Well then "Hey baja can I have some money" ;D

[defenseman]

If someone asks me for money he gets it and I do not judge what he might do with it. It is enough that he asked.

I give very large quantities to specific charities...dman

[baja]

Well then "Hey baja can I have some money" ;D

Sure!

Seriously what I have found in my life is if you give with no judgment or expectation with the only intention being to help a person and trust it is for the higher good than it always comes back 10 fold and more.

[defenseman]

Sure!

Seriously what I have found in my life is if you give with no judgment or expectation with the only intention being to help a person and trust it is for the higher good than it always comes back 10 fold and more.

Count yourself fortunate. Not entirely true in my dealings with the subject at hand. But thats a long story, certianly too long for here..dman

[alkemical]

Yep. Like I said, we have made mistakes with these malcontents. However, ultimately they are the deviates. we need to learn from our mistakes, hopefully, and deal with them as they really are from now on. Hindsight is 20/20, learn from it and don't make the same mistake. From my perspective, they(NK) are the issue. Pointing fingers just doesn't get it done anymore now does it and I'm sick of the both parties pointing the finger at each other blaming the other for whatever. They(repubs/dems) act like grade school kids taddle taleing to the teacher, damn immature little children. Fix the problem, move on....dman



Well it seems that we are in agreement - i just don't think we learn from our mistakes (well out gov't anyway)

[alkemical]

If someone asks me for money he gets it and I do not judge what he might do with it. It is enough that he asked.



Equivalent exchange -

[ant1999e]

Bullsh*t. :bs:

The agreement kept NK from pursuing a nuclear weapon or weapons-grade plutonium from 1994 until Bush took office and started up with his asinine cowboy rhetoric.

If you can't get your facts straight, then you have no business participating in this discussion.

What facts? I didn't give you any facts. Here are two facts for you._i_O_i_

[bendog]

The gop congress never funded what WJC agreed to. Kim Bongii's more eager to sell that a hooker at a religious right convention. Only bushii could have failed to get a deal. I think even Duckass could've handled it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What facts? I didn't give you any facts. Here are two facts for you._i_O_i_
I guess not knowing the facts never stopped you before, so I'm not surprised now that you have no idea that 14% of all of Americas oil is from Venezuela and you're using it every day just like everyone else.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What facts? I didn't give you any facts.

My point exactly.

Here are two facts for you._i_O_i_

No thanks - I don't play for your team. Try your pal Foley.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I guess not knowing the facts never stopped you before, so I'm not surprised now that you have no idea that 14% of all of Americas oil is from Venezuela and you're using it every day just like everyone else.

Yep.

Almost everything this ant1999e clown posts he's basically just pulling out of his patoot.

With role models like Team Bush and the right-wing media, what more can we expect?

[alkemical]

Yep.

Almost everything this ant1999e clown posts he's basically just pulling out of his patoot.

With role models like Team Bush and the right-wing media, what more can we expect?



patoot?


lol

[ant1999e]

I guess not knowing the facts never stopped you before, so I'm not surprised now that you have no idea that 14% of all of Americas oil is from Venezuela and you're using it every day just like everyone else.

And What the hell does this have to do with the subject of NK and nukes?

So does that mean I must suck Hugo's cock like you and LABF?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So does that mean I must suck Hugo's cock like you and LABF?

Better not - GeeDubya might get jealous.

[ant1999e]

My point exactly.



No thanks - I don't play for your team. Try your pal Foley.

He isn't my pal. You're the one that's all about free love.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Your(sic) the one that's all about free love.

You mean "free" as in "don't have to pay for it?"

Guilty as charged.

[ant1999e]

Love is never free. You pay sooner or later.

[Spider]

If someone asks me for money he gets it and I do not judge what he might do with it. It is enough that he asked.

I spotted a 2005 Peterbuilt with a 53 foot 3 axle stretch 250K for both......I will pay you back 20.00 a week ;D