John Abraham still playing it safe

[Clockwork Orange]

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9690339

Down in Atlanta, it looks as if defensive end John Abraham's groin is taking a while to heal. Abraham did not practice again Wednesday and is listed as questionable for Sunday's game against the Arizona Cardinals. Abraham also was listed as questionable for Monday night's game versus the Saints, and the defensive end never even made the trip to New Orleans.

One NFL general manager said there never have been doubts about Abraham's abilities; those are immense. The questions are about his durability. In three of his first six seasons with the New York Jets, Abraham failed to play in all 16 games. Already this season, Abraham has missed two more.

Without Abraham, the Falcons defense is missing its biggest disrupting force and the most intimidating presence along the defensive line.


Can't be too careful, right John?

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Just think, Broncos could have given up their first round choice and more for this POS.

[Man-Goblin]

He must be thinking about his NEXT contract...

[-Slap-]

Fag.

[-Slap-]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=39087&highlight=abraham

[Merlin]

Where are all the lovers that wanted to give-up a first round choice?

[rbackfactory80]

Well when on the field he can be as good as anybody. IE game 1 of the season, 2 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 5 tackles.

[Pendejo]

I'm glad that the Donks were able to butt into the Abraham deal, and wind up with Cutler.

[Kaylore]

Well when on the field he can be as good as anybody. IE game 1 of the season, 2 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 5 tackles.

"Aye, and if my Grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon."
http://www.billpetro.com/blog/uploaded_images/scotty-799003.jpg

[fontaine]

Meanwhile, Andre Carter (the other DE we wanted) has 5 tackles, 0 sacks after the first three games and is a liability against the run.

It looks like we dodged some major bullets there.

[-Slap-]

But we'll never go anywhere unless we commit huge dollars to the defensive line.

[-Slap-]

Well when on the field he can be as good as anybody. IE game 1 of the season, 2 sacks, 2 forced fumbles, and 5 tackles.

Three quarters.

The season will be 25% over on Sunday and this chronic malingerer will have chipped in three quarters of football.

[eddie mac]

Meanwhile, Andre Carter (the other DE we wanted) has 5 tackles, 0 sacks after the first three games and is a liability against the run.

It looks like we dodged some major bullets there.

Thing is though Denver were interested in both players and may well have signed them if the asking prices weren't so high.

[fontaine]

But we'll never go anywhere unless we commit huge dollars to the defensive line.

Thing is though Denver were interested in both players and may well have signed them if the asking prices weren't so high.

I agree, kind of. Carter was flat out overpaid by Snyder so what else is new. We do need to spend more resources on the DL but Myers/Warren are pretty solid. I think the draft is the way to go personally because usually the DL that make it out to free agency are guys with question marks around them.

Chicago are a great example. They built through the draft and didn't necessarily need blue chip prospects at every position. Two of their starting guys developed into solid players and they traded for O-Gun. Same with San Diego who drafted their guys in the late first, 2nd rounds etc.

[Cito Pelon]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=39087&highlight=abraham

Ouch. I'm glad I didn't get involved in that discussion.

[watermock]

And just think...we could of had Abraham instead of Cutler and Walker.

[Cito Pelon]

And just think...we could of had Abraham instead of Cutler and Walker.

Could have had Abraham, TO, Ricky, and Andre Carter also. The Foolsome Foursome.

[rbackfactory80]

"Aye, and if my Grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon."
http://www.billpetro.com/blog/uploaded_images/scotty-799003.jpg

I get your point, but that might be a little bit of a stretch.

[rovolution]

Could have had Abraham, TO, Ricky, and Andre Carter also. The Foolsome Foursome.

Who did we want first? Ricky W or Jamal L? I cant remember

[Cito Pelon]

Who did we want first? Ricky W or Jamal L? I cant remember

Hell, who knows? There was such hysterics going on, I couldn't follow it all, And there's still all kinds of hysteria over a 2-1 team that looks solid to me. The return game is the only question mark, and it's only game four coming up.

[Clockwork Orange]

Who did we want first? Ricky W or Jamal L? I cant remember

Williams was just a rumor for all we know. I don't believe that the Broncos ever actually got around to making an offer for him before he got suspended.

Lewis, on the other hand, was scheduled for a visit before the Ratbirds threw that 3 year contract worth $25 million at him.

[Popps]

Problem is, Abraham was probably more productive in the one game he did play than all of our ends combined, so far.

He's fragile, no question.... and with 20/20 hindsight glasses on, doesn't look like a great signing............................. right now. We'll see when the season plays out. They probably overpaid for him.

Then again, you could have said the same thing about Walker. Yet, Bronco fans strangely seem to be all behind this guy now. A few months ago, people were jumping off of buildings in denver at the thought of actually opening up the checkbook a little and paying a guy what they're worth.

Let me ask you a question.... do you think it's a major coincidence that our best defensive player is also our highest paid?

Now, let's look at the offense. Looks like Walker might be well on his way to being our most valuable weapon. Oddly, another guy on a big contract.

Crazy that we actually have to pay guys well that play well from time to time, huh?

But, not on the defensive line. Nooooooooo, no. Scrubs and cast-offs ONLY.
See, that line of reasoning has been so successful, we've had exactly one highly productive DE in the last decade, and we kicked him out of town as soon as he wanted a pay-raise.

Abraham might be a bust. He might miss a few games, then come back and produce at a high level. But, the fact remains that... if not him, somewhere along the line, this team has needed to get serious about the front four, and we just refuse to do so.

Hence, we've had a ****ty pass rush and marginal play up front for a decade. But, don't rock that boat, right?

[Cito Pelon]

Problem is, Abraham was probably more productive in the one game he did play than all of our ends combined, so far.

He's fragile, no question.... and with 20/20 hindsight glasses on, doesn't look like a great signing............................. right now. We'll see when the season plays out. They probably overpaid for him.

Then again, you could have said the same thing about Walker. Yet, Bronco fans strangely seem to be all behind this guy now. A few months ago, people were jumping off of buildings in denver at the thought of actually opening up the checkbook a little and paying a guy what they're worth.

Let me ask you a question.... do you think it's a major coincidence that our best defensive player is also our highest paid?

Now, let's look at the offense. Looks like Walker might be well on his way to being our most valuable weapon. Oddly, another guy on a big contract.

Crazy that we actually have to pay guys well that play well from time to time, huh?

But, not on the defensive line. Nooooooooo, no. Scrubs and cast-offs ONLY.
See, that line of reasoning has been so successful, we've had exactly one highly productive DE in the last decade, and we kicked him out of town as soon as he wanted a pay-raise.

Abraham might be a bust. He might miss a few games, then come back and produce at a high level. But, the fact remains that... if not him, somewhere along the line, this team has needed to get serious about the front four, and we just refuse to do so.

Hence, we've had a ****ty pass rush and marginal play up front for a decade. But, don't rock that boat, right?

How many D players do you want to make the highest paid at their position in the League? Bowlen/Shanahan don't Franchise players, never have done that a single time. The org pays their players, so how many do you want to wrap up long term? Can't have them all, make your choice.

[Xenos]

I agree, kind of. Carter was flat out overpaid by Snyder so what else is new. We do need to spend more resources on the DL but Myers/Warren are pretty solid. I think the draft is the way to go personally because usually the DL that make it out to free agency are guys with question marks around them.

Chicago are a great example. They built through the draft and didn't necessarily need blue chip prospects at every position. Two of their starting guys developed into solid players and they traded for O-Gun. Same with San Diego who drafted their guys in the late first, 2nd rounds etc.

We have a winner! This is my opinion as well. FA can sometimes be just as risky as the draft and more expensive. Spending money wisely is also key especially since the creation of the salary cap. By growing your team with the draft you can save money and get the same level of production. Granted, sometimes it may take a little longer, but it's better than being in cap hell every year like the Raiders and Redskins.
Some of the better teams in the league (I'm going by the last few years as opposed to this year) have done that and they have remained competitive each year. The Patriots won three superbowls using this strategy. The Steelers have managed to make the playoffs almost every year. The Eagles also followed a similar strategy until they decided to take a risk and bring in a big name FA...TO.
The downside to this strategy is that it can't prevent players from getting too greedy and wanting more ie. Deion Branch. The Pats may suffer this year but because of their scouting ability, they'll be a strong team again.

[Popps]

How many D players do you want to make the highest paid at their position in the League? Bowlen/Shanahan don't Franchise players, never have done that a single time. The org pays their players, so how many do you want to wrap up long term? Can't have them all, make your choice.

How's this... over the course of 10 years........ I'd like to take the defensive line seriously one time, particularly the end spots. Be it through the draft or FA, at least TRY to solidify the positions with something besides cast-offs and has-beens. Then, when you DO land a Bert Berry, just pay the guy a little bit and keep him around.

The problem with this "we can't pay guys" line of reasoning is that I've been hearing it about the D-line for 10 years. Yet, we can blow multiple 1st picks on CBs, WRs... and even OL. But, we can't, one time in a decade make a serious run at a dominant defensive linemen?

Shanny sure had no problem trading up for a QB when he saw one he liked.

Again, we can disagree on philosophy, but what we have done on the defensive line over the past decade simply has NOT worked.

I will say this, they finally got lucky digging through the garbage dumpster and landed Warren, and were at least smart enough to pay the guy properly and lock him up.

[Popps]

Chicago are a great example. They built through the draft and didn't necessarily need blue chip prospects at every position. .

Yea, well... that's not true.

Their two most productive linemen are....

1. Adewale Ogunleye: Signed as an unrestricted free agent to a 6 yr., $34 Million contract.

2. Tommie Harris: Drafted 14th overall.

So, one blue-chipper and one high priced FA DE account for their dominant line's two most important players.

Both of those players would have been perfect fits for us, by the way.

But, we were busy fishing for CBs. Who was it that year, Deltha O'Neal or Willie Middlebrooks?



With 3:31 left, the Bears trailing 16-12 and the Vikings facing third-and-8 at their own 43, Harris noticed left guard Steve Hutchinson leaning back slightly across from him.

When the ball was snapped, Hutchinson pulled. Harris anticipated the opening so well that he burst into the backfield and disrupted the handoff between quarterback Brad Johnson and running back Chester Taylor.

Harris jarred the ball loose, and Adewale Ogunleye recovered. Five plays later Rex Grossman hit Rashied Davis with a game-winning 24-yard touchdown pass.]

[watermock]

Actually, the handoff was clean...Taylor just was lazy with the ball and was stripped. Pissed me off because they had the game easily won. 19 points in 5 minutes.

[maven]

Ha! ROFL! LOL Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! :giggle: Problem is, Abraham was probably more productive in the one game he did play than all of our ends combined, so far.

He's fragile, no question.... and with 20/20 hindsight glasses on, doesn't look like a great signing............................. right now. We'll see when the season plays out. They probably overpaid for him.

Then again, you could have said the same thing about Walker. Yet, Bronco fans strangely seem to be all behind this guy now. A few months ago, people were jumping off of buildings in denver at the thought of actually opening up the checkbook a little and paying a guy what they're worth.

Let me ask you a question.... do you think it's a major coincidence that our best defensive player is also our highest paid?

Now, let's look at the offense. Looks like Walker might be well on his way to being our most valuable weapon. Oddly, another guy on a big contract.

Crazy that we actually have to pay guys well that play well from time to time, huh?

But, not on the defensive line. Nooooooooo, no. Scrubs and cast-offs ONLY.
See, that line of reasoning has been so successful, we've had exactly one highly productive DE in the last decade, and we kicked him out of town as soon as he wanted a pay-raise.

Abraham might be a bust. He might miss a few games, then come back and produce at a high level. But, the fact remains that... if not him, somewhere along the line, this team has needed to get serious about the front four, and we just refuse to do so.

Hence, we've had a ****ty pass rush and marginal play up front for a decade. But, don't rock that boat, right?


Looks like your key offseason acquisition can't seem to get healthy. The guy didn't even finish the first game of the season. Thankfully you're not running the Broncos since you would've dumped a #1 and bonus + large salary on Abraham.

:rofl:

[Popps]

Ha! ROFL! LOL Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! :giggle:


Looks like your key offseason acquisition can't seem to get healthy. The guy didn't even finish the first game of the season. Thankfully you're not running the Broncos since you would've dumped a #1 and bonus + large salary on Abraham.

:rofl:

Yea, I was one of few in favor of signing Walker around here. You hate that move, too?

But, you're probably right. Teams like Chicago who take calculated risks like Tommie Harris and Ogunleye are real dopes, huh? Must suck having a defense so tough that they literally almost didn't have to field an offense to make the playoffs.

But, hey... we're saving money. Whoopeeeee!

:yayaya:

I was in favor of bringing in Abraham if we could make it work, sure... and if he turns out a bust, I'll gladly admit I was off the mark.
But, what I'm NOT off the mark about is our team's goofball philosophy that the D-line only need be poo-poo'd with cast offs and mid round draft picks.

It's been a weak spot for 10 years. You can argue with those facts all you want. It won't change them.

[watermock]

Ha! ROFL! LOL Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! :giggle:


Looks like your key offseason acquisition can't seem to get healthy. The guy didn't even finish the first game of the season. Thankfully you're not running the Broncos since you would've dumped a #1 and bonus + large salary on Abraham.

:rofl:

Look you TOOL, C. Brown doesn't have a big contract whatsoever. If you haven't noticed, we are still stuffing the run. Lang has been playing well for us in his absence. Noone thinks we don't need help on the DL, but the offense needed a transfusion.

Javon Walker would command much more after last weeks performance and the new CBA. To think he's overpaid is ludicrous. That crip sure got chased down and stripped on that 83 yard TD now didn't he. Even Champ's contract looks much more in line after the new CBA as well as Gold's.

Players like Nalen, R. Smith and Jake won't be easily replaced, but we have allready gotten prospects to fill their shoes and those three would free up a ton of cap space I do believe. Our salary situation is fine thank you very much.

[rbackfactory80]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=5 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by maven http://www.orangemane.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1293737#post1293737)
Ha! ROFL! LOL Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! :giggle:


Looks like your key offseason acquisition can't seem to get healthy. The guy didn't even finish the first game of the season. Thankfully you're not running the Broncos since you would've dumped a #1 and bonus + large salary on Abraham.

:rofl:
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Got Class?

[Clockwork Orange]

Falcons | Abraham OUT for Week 4
Sun, 1 Oct 2006 09:12:52 -0700

Atlanta Falcons DL John Abraham (groin) is out for the Week 4 game.

[-Slap-]

Falcons | Abraham OUT for Week 4
Sun, 1 Oct 2006 09:12:52 -0700

Atlanta Falcons DL John Abraham (groin) is out for the Week 4 game.

Fag.

[fontaine]

Yea, well... that's not true.

Their two most productive linemen are....

1. Adewale Ogunleye: Signed as an unrestricted free agent to a 6 yr., $34 Million contract.

2. Tommie Harris: Drafted 14th overall.

So, one blue-chipper and one high priced FA DE account for their dominant line's two most important players.


I'm not sure but I thought Chicago traded for Ogun?

I think they got him for a 3rd rounder so there you go!

Tommie Harris was a blue chip prospect, but I said in my post that they didn't get blue chip prospect at every position.

[Popps]

I'm not sure but I thought Chicago traded for Ogun?

I think they got him for a 3rd rounder so there you go!

Tommie Harris was a blue chip prospect, but I said in my post that they didn't get blue chip prospect at every position.

Even if they got him for a 3rd rounder (I could have sworn he signed as a free agent) .... they signed him to a large contract, the exact kind that made us kick Berry loose.

Let's also remember high first round pick and big $ maker, Urlacher.

Is EVERY SINGLE one of their defensive starters a blue chip or high priced free agent, no. But, they have plenty. It's absolutely inaccurate to think of their defense as some rag-tag group of cast offs that just happened to wind up talented.

That team spent a gob of money and high draft picks getting itself where it is with regards to defense. Our team has a good start, but we haven't been serious about the D-line, yet. We'll see if we can sneak by with the rag-tags this year.

[Breck Bronc]

The Bears got Ogunleye for Marty Booker (who dropped a bunch of passes yesterday, including a would-be touchdown late in the game) and a third round pick. Ogunleye was holding out after leading the Dolphins and AFC in sacks in 2003. I wish we could have gotten in on that action, but I doubt Miami would have traded him to an AFC playoff contender.

Their other starting DE is Alex Brown, who was an underachieving player at the Univeristy of Florida and a 4th round draft pick in 2002.

Ian Scott starts at one DT spot next to Tommie Harris. Scott was another underachieving Gator and 4th round pick in 2003.

[-Slap-]

The Bears got Ogunleye for Marty Booker (who dropped a bunch of passes yesterday, including a would-be touchdown late in the game) and a third round pick. Ogunleye was holding out after leading the Dolphins and AFC in sacks in 2003. I wish we could have gotten in on that action, but I doubt Miami would have traded him to an AFC playoff contender.

Their other starting DE is Alex Brown, who was an underachieving player at the Univeristy of Florida and a 4th round draft pick in 2002.

Ian Scott starts at one DT spot next to Tommie Harris. Scott was another underachieving Gator and 4th round pick in 2003.

That awesome Bears defense was built largely because they've only had two winning seasons in the last ten years (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chiindex.htm) and they've been granted corresponding high draft picks.

Despite all that attention to defense, they got their **** pushed by Carolina's offense in the playoffs last season. A Panthers' team that was starting Nick Goings at tailback no less.

I hope someday we can duplicate their incredible success of being 4-0 in an incredibly weak conference.

[Mediator12]

Yeah, the Bears are still the best Defense in the NFL IMHO. They do it mostly from the Base package, but they have a Lethal Front Four of Brown, Harris, Tank Johnson, and Ogunleye on passing downs. They have the best starting DL in football and Great Backups for situational rotation. And, it looks like after last night they have a legit offense too.

I would trade Any 2 of DEN's DL straight up for any one of their top 6.

[WABronco]

On Seattle radio, a few Seahawks players were calling Ogunleye the most complete DE in the league. And to think, he only cost a scrub WR and a 3rd rounder...

What would you guys think about going after Ian Scott in FA?

[Cito Pelon]

Even if they got him for a 3rd rounder (I could have sworn he signed as a free agent) .... they signed him to a large contract, the exact kind that made us kick Berry loose.

Let's also remember high first round pick and big $ maker, Urlacher.

Is EVERY SINGLE one of their defensive starters a blue chip or high priced free agent, no. But, they have plenty. It's absolutely inaccurate to think of their defense as some rag-tag group of cast offs that just happened to wind up talented.

That team spent a gob of money and high draft picks getting itself where it is with regards to defense. Our team has a good start, but we haven't been serious about the D-line, yet. We'll see if we can sneak by with the rag-tags this year.

Shanny and his crew wanted Adam Archuleta, they wanted Urlacher, they wanted Freeney, they didn't go get them, much to their chagrin I guess. Too bad Shanny and his crew didn't know then what they know now - trade up. It's a shame they wasted a couple years and had to give up Portis to secure a D playmaker, but there we are.

So much for my rehash - the D and team overall are looking pretty good right now. The Broncs will be in the AFC Title hunt once again it looks like to me, and that's all you can ask for.

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . . . .I would trade Any 2 of DEN's DL straight up for any one of their top 6.

Hold the phone there, psycho-dude. Don't you think that's absurdly simplistic? I do. You haven't been on the mark about any thing at all so far this season. Stick to your doctoral program, you're pretty much throwing manure at the wall and hoping it will stick in regards to the Broncos.

[Mediator12]

Hold the phone there, psycho-dude. Don't you think that's absurdly simplistic? I do. You haven't been on the mark about any thing at all so far this season. Stick to your doctoral program, you're pretty much throwing manure at the wall and hoping it will stick in regards to the Broncos.

OK. :rofl: !Booya!

:notworthy