Sorry Plummer, I was flat out wrong

[Willynowei]

So i never saw the St.Louis game, and hearing from the KOA broadcast and reading info off the maners here who were supposedly at the game, i assumed Jake was a huge part of the loss that day.

Well i finally downloaded the torrent, and I can't believe what i saw. Jake did not look like a lost, confused quarterback who was exposed by a good defense. He looked like a pro-bowl caliber quarterback who was betrayed by a flat out pathetic performance by his teamates.

Observations (I'll be frank, there were some shocking ones):

1.) Rod Smith was smothered. Plummer had several incompletions that were balls you'd see any great QB throw to his go to guy. Soft, over the top, right to the hands. Rod faced unbelievably good coverage that game, the corner was physical and kept Rod from getting position on jump balls. Rod still produced, but give Kudos to the Rams corner.

2.) This is already apparent, but George Foster couldn't play highschool varsity football if he weren't as big as he is. Flat out, Foster is stupid. If you've played football I'm sure you'll agree that the game is fairly cerebral, knowing how to position yourself and use body leverage is key in blocking, Foster flat out sucks at this in pass protection.
a.) His stance is lazy, too high, hands resting on the thighs, not by the sides ready to fire out. His butt is way too high.
b.) He archs his back because his but is so high and has a generally lazy form. Defenders easily get inside his reach by staying low and exploding into his body. I saw him get lifted up (yes literally) by leonard little and shoved backwards.
c.) He's stupid, no like really stupid. On one play, all little did was line up way to his outside. Instead of shuffling his feet to pick up little, foster stood straight up and checked for a blitz or stunt first even though there was no linebacker within 5 yards. Would it be a good idea to first take care of the other teams leading sacker?

3.) Drops. There were a ton. From early on with Scheffler to Javon to even Rod, everyone had their share of drops.

I reviewed each turnover except the last because the torrent was cut short. Jake is at fault yes, but everyone one of the turnovers were not entirely Jakes fault.

Jakes 1st: Fumble: Jake was pulling the ball back to throw, eyes down field like a good quarterback should. What he didnt know was that he was about to be unloaded on by Little, automatic fumble, not a QB in the league could've avoided it.

Jakes 2nd: INT: Jake dropped back 3 steps, eyes looking at Rod. He began to pull the ball back to throw. As his hand was comming forward, look carefully, a Ram Defender gets his hand into the throwing lane. Jake was near release, so he went ahead and adjusted the throw to the left. However, it was an in, and the corner was able to pick it off because he covered the route well and was inside of Rod, right where the ball was thrown.
I can imagine a guy like Brady tucking the ball and taking the sack, or a tall guy like Rothlesberger throwing it over the defenders reach. Jake made a mistake there, but it was overblown. Had Rod had better position or had there been better protection on a THREE STEP DROP, that never would've been an interception.

Jakes 3rd: INT2: Todd Devoe was wideopen at middle of the field. Jake lobbed one high and infront of him. A safety from behind Todd went up for the ball. However Todd had much better position on the ball. The read was fine, the throw could've been better but it was fine. Devoe did something a Peewee player would do, mis judge a lob. Seriously, you are a widereceiver, and you misjudged a jump ball, get your a** out of this league.

I looked at the stat sheet and I saw over 150 yards rushing, and thought, with that much of a running game and those two guys at wideout, Jake must've really stunk it up.

To be honest, it looked like any probowl QB whos weapons and protection is being raped by the opposing defense. Jake could've avoided one of the mistakes he made in that game by my count. He threw mostly accurate balls, a lot his misses were poor play by the receiver.

Think about it, Devoe should've caught that ball for a huge gain. Walker should've scored a touchdown like twice. The fumble never would've happened if Mike Bell wasn't asked to block leonard little. We have one INT left, and it was a pretty unique scenario. Jake was in his throwing motion as the defensive lineman reached for the ball, it was not a bad read at all.

Honestly, i have no idea why the reports, the broadcasts and the comments of people who actually saw the game were so negative. But I'm here to ask you all to take a look and see if you still think it was Jakes fault that night. I saw about 10% of the blame falls on him.

I'm Digging this CRAP up because i feel Denver fan's owe their quarterback an apology. I'll be the first; Sorry Jake for thinking you were the main reason Denver has a loss in its record right now.

[SteveTensi13]

Holy cow, we must have watched two completely different games! On the plus side, the Clinton team would love you as a spin doctor!!

[ludo21]

Funny how we all see things differently. ;D

[Taco John]

Sorry Jake, that in your 9 opening starts as a quarterback, you've thrown 23 interceptions. I sincerely apologize for watching you continue that trend with Denver, instead of getting some fresh air with my family that first week.

Thanks for pulling your head out against the Pats.

[Kaylore]

Taco has already hit on this, but even Jake admited he made some mistakes. Were all his problems his fault? No but five turnovers and four were from one player.

[listopencil]

...

Yes, a lot of people saw the exact same thing that you did but it seems to be fashionable to blame Plummer for the entire game. It adds fuel to the "start Cutler" fire even though our Head Coach has stated that Cutler isn't ready to start in the NFL.

[broncolife]

hahahahahaha.........wait it isnt April.

[Paladin]

Holy cow, we must have watched two completely different games! On the plus side, the Clinton team would love you as a spin doctor!!

That's a dumb statement right there, IMHO. But little minds say silly things.....

[Taco John]

I don't know why we've got to dwell on Jake's mistakes from the Rams game. He just had a decent game against the Patriots, and we're going into primetime against the rat birds. I mean, I guess we can sit here and argue about whether Jake's floater to Devoe was a terrible pass (it was), or just Devoe grab-assing it (he was wide open until the ball was underthrown)... But what's the point?

[Clockwork Orange]

I don't know why we've got to dwell on Jake's mistakes from the Rams game.

You're probably the last person who should ever tell anyone not to dwell on Jake's mistakes.

[RhymesayersDU]

You're probably the last person who should ever tell anyone not to dwell on Jake's mistakes.

QFT.

[Bronco Bob]

Holy cow, we must have watched two completely different games! On the plus side, the Clinton team would love you as a spin doctor!!

Why would the Clinton team need a spin doctor?

[Taco John]

You're probably the last person who should ever tell anyone not to dwell on Jake's mistakes.

Hey, the guy pulled through... All I wanted through September was 2-2. We're at least that far, so the panic has subsized. I was as nervous as anyone here about going into Foxborough in Primetime, followed up by a primetime appearance against the Ravens.

The guy is a notorious slow starter, which is a problem in the playoffs, but we'll just have to worry about that then. For right now, our defense looks for real, and Jake has finally worked through his open season jitters. No sense on bagging on the guy during a week that he doesn't deserve it... unless of course, someone wants to dig up the bodies from weeks one and two...

[broncolife]

QFT.

whats qft stand for? I think I know what the f stands for or it just might be that I have a dirty mind.:)

[RhymesayersDU]

whats qft stand for? I think I know what the f stands for or it just might be that I have a dirty mind.:)

LOL

Quoted For Truth

[Taco John]

whats qft stand for? I think I know what the f stands for or it just might be that I have a dirty mind.:)



QFT = Quoted for truth

[Killericon]

His St. Louis game was ****, his NE game was gold. Nuff' said.

[watermock]

We have scored 10, 9, and 17.

36 total points in three games isn't going to cut it. There is no huge vindication for the offense whatsoever.

[freak6]

Holy cow, we must have watched two completely different games! On the plus side, the Clinton team would love you as a spin doctor!!

"I wasn't on point, I didn't feel a sense of urgency"

I'd take you and ANY republican defending Bush to the WOODSHED in a debate. SheepTensi, I think you need to wipe the pus off your lobatomy.

[Clockwork Orange]

There is no huge vindication for the offense whatsoever.

Actually there is.

The RBBC appears to have been scrapped and this guy looks as though he's knocked off the rust and is able to trust that knee.

[watermock]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2622&dateline=1159206414
I'd take you and ANY republican defending Bush to the WOODSHED in a debate.

I have a feeling you would take anything to the woodshed.

Have fun in the circle jerk room. Speaking of President's, did you happen to seen Clinton's meltown? Clinton tried to orchistrate the conversation but got frustrated and blew up.

[freak6]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2622&dateline=1159206414



I have a feeling you would take anything to the woodshed.

Have fun in the circle jerk room. Speaking of President's, did you happen to seen Clinton's meltown?

I'm a Sgt of Marines moron. And you're the last person that should be starting an argument. You can click on my profile to see the real me if you like. But one more word out of you and I will unload both barrells and make you pull a TO drunky.

[freak6]

Say something drunky. I'm waiting.

[watermock]

Actually there is.

The RBBC appears to have been scrapped and this guy looks as though he's knocked off the rust and is able to trust that knee.

We can agree on this point Clockwork, but I expected all along Walker would break out. Tater Tot has to carry the load, but we have a few backs behind him.

[Popps]

I still think Plummer was bad in that game.

But, I erased it off of Tivo immediately. I couldn't stand to watch that one again. So, it's tough for me to really evaluate again. I thought he made one really bad throw, and two that could have gone either way. But, when those "go either way" ones go the wrong way, you've had a bad day.

I do know it was a team loss, though. We had a ton of other ####-ups.

I also know that St. Louis had a good game plan for our offense and made it very tough for us to get anything consistent going, besides a few long runs.

We made adjustments for the next week which were obvious and effective.

[Crushaholic]

I'm one of Plummer's biggest fans on this site, and I admit he had a bad game in St. Louis. Having said that, the O-line (particularly Foster) was being bullrushed all day and Plummer didn't have time to throw. However, he did make some lousy throws even when he had protection.

[ScottXray]

CAT FIGHT! LOL LOL LOL :threadjac


Freak and Mock are trying to hi-jack the thread.........LET THEM!
I don't want to talk about Jake this week..:deadhorse he done GOOD last weekend!:charge: :brokehalo

[Rock Chalk]

LOL

Quoted For Truth

I thought it was Quite ****ing True.

[Willynowei]

Guys take a look again at the game. I'm not saying Jake had a good game, but the numbers flat out lie. Only one of the first three turnovers by Jake were his fault. The other two were complete bogus. I don't care how you disect it; the ball was too short, the ball was too soft. The fact is that Devoe was wide freakin open, and even when the ball got there Devoe was infront of the safety and mistimed his jump. What is this? Highschool football? It doesn't even happen in Highschool football! How do you mistime a jump on a lob ball? holly f*cking sh*t he needs a new job.

[Drek]

I reviewed each turnover except the last because the torrent was cut short. Jake is at fault yes, but everyone one of the turnovers were not entirely Jakes fault.

Jakes 1st: Fumble: Jake was pulling the ball back to throw, eyes down field like a good quarterback should. What he didnt know was that he was about to be unloaded on by Little, automatic fumble, not a QB in the league could've avoided it.
Most QBs in this league keep BOTH HANDS ON THE BALL while scanning the field, they don't hold it out there for DEs to strike at. Also there's something to be said for taking the sack. Jake saw the pressure coming and tried a last second throw, he should have tucked and got leveled. This is however the only turnover of that day that was mildly excusable, as Bell on Little was a horrible blocking matchup that obviously wasn't going to go our way.


Jakes 2nd: INT: Jake dropped back 3 steps, eyes looking at Rod. He began to pull the ball back to throw. As his hand was comming forward, look carefully, a Ram Defender gets his hand into the throwing lane. Jake was near release, so he went ahead and adjusted the throw to the left. However, it was an in, and the corner was able to pick it off because he covered the route well and was inside of Rod, right where the ball was thrown.
I can imagine a guy like Brady tucking the ball and taking the sack, or a tall guy like Rothlesberger throwing it over the defenders reach. Jake made a mistake there, but it was overblown. Had Rod had better position or had there been better protection on a THREE STEP DROP, that never would've been an interception. How is throwing a poor pass to a blanketted WR that you were staring down since the snap something that can even be overblown? Thats high school QB'ing right there.


Jakes 3rd: INT2: Todd Devoe was wideopen at middle of the field. Jake lobbed one high and infront of him. A safety from behind Todd went up for the ball. However Todd had much better position on the ball. The read was fine, the throw could've been better but it was fine. Devoe did something a Peewee player would do, mis judge a lob. Seriously, you are a widereceiver, and you misjudged a jump ball, get your a** out of this league.

I love this topic. "Hey, lets make excuses for why Jake couldn't deliver the ball to a WR in front of the endzone with 10 yards of space, and instead had to throw up a lame duck that was closer to the safety than Devoe!" Devoe had to run from the middle of the field, jump in the air, and try to make a play on a lame duck pass. Chavous just had to step forward out of the endzone and have it fall in his lap like mana from heaven.

You also missed the 3rd INT when Jake stared Rod down again the entire play and forced it into triple coverage.

Make excuses all you want, Jake played the single worst game of football a Broncos QB has managed in recent history that game. We lost BECAUSE OF JAKE. Accept it, move on, Shanahan isn't going ot let it happen again. The gameplan will be scaled down the rest of the season to where Jake can't lose games for us, he can facilitate Rod and Javon winning games for us, he can handoff to Tatum who can win games for us, and he can manage the ball and clock like a veteran enabling the defense to win games for us. When Jake has to win a game we LOSE, when Jake can manage a game safely we WIN. Simple as that.

[Broncos4tw]

Were you watching a game from last year or something? I think you were watching the wrong game. You had to be. The o-line played poorly, but Jake played a worse game than anyone on the team that day. He made very poor throws, and very bad decisions. He is lucky it wasn't one more pick than it was.

It's rather funny that you blame a receiver for an incredibly poorly thrown ball that took a week to get there. A Bronco fan that attended the game said it was clear that the receiver wasn't going to get that, no matter how he timed his jump. He couldn't get back to it in time. You can't blame a receiver for not expecting his QB to throw a lame duck, and mistiming a jump because it was probably 10 yards further upfield than he expected. That was a gimme 7 points (7 game winning points) that Jake flushed down the toilet.

He throw behind receivers, at their heads, he didn't scramble for crap, he played a very poor game. This was acknowledged by himself, his players as well as his coach.

He played a very poor second game as well.

Last game though, he finally looked great. Receivers dropped plenty of balls in the last game, but we still didn't lose, because he did make plays, made some accurate throws, and scrambled when needed. The stuff he didn't do in game one.

I'm a huge Bronco fan, but even my glasses ain't tinted that orange.

[55CrushEm]

I'd take you and ANY republican to the WOODSHED in a debate.

I doubt that.....in any case keep this sh*t in the political forum....

BTW, why is a leftie like yourself mocking gay people (via your avatar) ? That's not very typical of your ilk.....

[Popps]

. When Jake has to win a game we LOSE, when Jake can manage a game safely we WIN. Simple as that.

I'm just wondering...

the next week when he led us on the scoring drive in overtime, hitting Walker to set up the game winning FG... that doesn't count, right?

Or...

the following week when he played lights-out against a favored team on the raod in a game that was basically a must-win... that doesn't count either, right?

Just curious, because it sure seems to me like he "needed" to win those games, and he did. But, I'm sure there's a good explanation... something about how when we win, it's got nothing to do with him, but when we lose, it's solely his doing.

[BMF Bronco]

We have scored 10, 9, and 17.

36 total points in three games isn't going to cut it. There is no huge vindication for the offense whatsoever.

your stupidity amazes me sometimes!

[BMF Bronco]

I doubt that.....in any case keep this sh*t in the political forum....

BTW, why is a leftie like yourself mocking gay people (via your avatar) ? That's not very typical of your ilk.....

He lost a bet, he's just manning up and not welching.

[yavoon]

I'm just wondering...

the next week when he led us on the scoring drive in overtime, hitting Walker to set up the game winning FG... that doesn't count, right?

Or...

the following week when he played lights-out against a favored team on the raod in a game that was basically a must-win... that doesn't count either, right?

Just curious, because it sure seems to me like he "needed" to win those games, and he did. But, I'm sure there's a good explanation... something about how when we win, it's got nothing to do with him, but when we lose, it's solely his doing.

lights out? we scored 17 points. if our QB going lights out gives us 17 points I think we have some serious issues to consider.

by my observation almost any qb coulda beat NE that day w/ the rest of denver's team.

[Taco John]

Only one of the first three turnovers by Jake were his fault.


Absolutely wrong. The only one that can't be blamed on Plummer, except for the fact that he had absolutely no pocket presence, is the fumble. Every one of those interceptions was stupidity on Plummer's part. The worst was the duck he threw to a wide open Devoe. That was a terrible floater to a wide open guy. That should have been six, but Plummer screwed it up.

[Rock Chalk]

Everyone of your posts is stupidity on your part Taco.

But we dont blame you.

We won, all of you just need to quit complaining. Better yet, go root for a team that deserves some complaining, liek teh Raiders. Bunch of panty wastes.

[Taco John]

Everyone of your posts is stupidity on your part Taco.

But we dont blame you.

We won, all of you just need to quit complaining. Better yet, go root for a team that deserves some complaining, liek teh Raiders. Bunch of panty wastes.


Blame the idiot who decided it was important to throw the Rams game in everybody's faces after a nice win against the Patriots.

[BMF Bronco]

Absolutely wrong. The only one that can't be blamed on Plummer, except for the fact that he had absolutely no pocket presence, is the fumble. Every one of those interceptions was stupidity on Plummer's part. The worst was the duck he threw to a wide open Devoe. That was a terrible floater to a wide open guy. That should have been six, but Plummer screwed it up.

Didn't you just say that you're not going to dwell on the Rams game and look forward to the rat birds?

[dbfan4life]

I thought it was Quite ****ing True.

I was thinking

Quit
****ing
Talking

I like it my way better. :yayaya:

[GonzoLays]

Absolutely wrong. The only one that can't be blamed on Plummer, except for the fact that he had absolutely no pocket presence, is the fumble. Every one of those interceptions was stupidity on Plummer's part. The worst was the duck he threw to a wide open Devoe. That was a terrible floater to a wide open guy. That should have been six, but Plummer screwed it up.

The offensive line is the weakness of the offense, remember? If Plummer had an offensive line that could pass block, we would be 3-0 right now with one of the highest scoring offenses in the league.

Plummer has been sacked 7 times in our last two losses. Extrapolated, that's 56 sacks a year which would be somekind of NFL record. No PROTECTION, no COMPLETION. Ya dig?

[Tredici]

Guys take a look again at the game. I'm not saying Jake had a good game, but the numbers flat out lie. Only one of the first three turnovers by Jake were his fault. The other two were complete bogus. I don't care how you disect it; the ball was too short, the ball was too soft. The fact is that Devoe was wide freakin open, and even when the ball got there Devoe was infront of the safety and mistimed his jump. What is this? Highschool football? It doesn't even happen in Highschool football! How do you mistime a jump on a lob ball? holly ****ing sh*t he needs a new job.

All I see in your review of Jake is you making excuses for him while holding everyone else on the field accountable.

That's some funny stuff. Funnier that you can't see it.

There was very little proper execution by anyone regarding the offensive game plan and the results show it. Absolutely no need to defend individual preformances - especially at the expense of someone else's.

[freak6]

Jake sucked. That pass to Devoe was the worst I've ever seen him throw, I take that back the one to Rod in the AFC C was worse, but still. I love how he makes up the excuse for Jakes 1st pick that "The corner had undercut Rod and stepped into the passing lane"...

lmfao

[Willynowei]

Most QBs in this league keep BOTH HANDS ON THE BALL while scanning the field, they don't hold it out there for DEs to strike at. Also there's something to be said for taking the sack. Jake saw the pressure coming and tried a last second throw, he should have tucked and got leveled. This is however the only turnover of that day that was mildly excusable, as Bell on Little was a horrible blocking matchup that obviously wasn't going to go our way.

How is throwing a poor pass to a blanketted WR that you were staring down since the snap something that can even be overblown? Thats high school QB'ing right there.


I love this topic. "Hey, lets make excuses for why Jake couldn't deliver the ball to a WR in front of the endzone with 10 yards of space, and instead had to throw up a lame duck that was closer to the safety than Devoe!" Devoe had to run from the middle of the field, jump in the air, and try to make a play on a lame duck pass. Chavous just had to step forward out of the endzone and have it fall in his lap like mana from heaven.

You also missed the 3rd INT when Jake stared Rod down again the entire play and forced it into triple coverage.

Make excuses all you want, Jake played the single worst game of football a Broncos QB has managed in recent history that game. We lost BECAUSE OF JAKE. Accept it, move on, Shanahan isn't going ot let it happen again. The gameplan will be scaled down the rest of the season to where Jake can't lose games for us, he can facilitate Rod and Javon winning games for us, he can handoff to Tatum who can win games for us, and he can manage the ball and clock like a veteran enabling the defense to win games for us. When Jake has to win a game we LOSE, when Jake can manage a game safely we WIN. Simple as that.

1.) Both hands? Are you kidding me? Who holds the ball with both hands during the throwing motion? Watch it again, your memory is fuzzy he was in the act of throwing but his arm didn't begin to move forward, thus the challenge and the play standing...

2.) Alot of people are reading this part wrong. It wasn't over blown because the corner jumped out of no where and picked it off or to that extent. When i said the defender came into his lane i wasn't talking about the corner.
The D-lineman had his hand hovering right infront of Jakes right Arm, thats what adjusted the throw left, and thus it was picked off. Like i said, this was his fault for throwing at all, he should've taken the sack.

3.) This one is pretty simple. If you want to defend Devoe you can. Jumping up and catching a ball traveling at the trajectory of a punt is about the easiest thing a professional athlete can do. Time that jump even to an average extent and we wouldn't be discussing this as an INT, but instead a large gain.

[Willynowei]

Absolutely wrong. The only one that can't be blamed on Plummer, except for the fact that he had absolutely no pocket presence, is the fumble. Every one of those interceptions was stupidity on Plummer's part. The worst was the duck he threw to a wide open Devoe. That was a terrible floater to a wide open guy. That should have been six, but Plummer screwed it up.

You have no clue what you're talking about, sorry but you and everyone who defends Devoe is clueless about that play, probably because you never bothered to watch it more than once.

Devoe ran a deep 15 yard post from left side. The corner covering him collided with another player. Jake was comming off of PLAYACTION. When he turned around Devoe already made his break. He was heading toward midfield. What is jake supposed to do there? What possible throw could he make? Tell me, unless Farve or Elway or maybe VIck was throwing that ball, what could've happened differently?

Are you telling me Jake could bullet that pass 35 yards downfield to a receiver running full speed TOWARD a safety? I'm sure you know that an Open receiver is not open if hes running toward a defended area, because you have to account for the time the ball takes to get there NO DUH.

You know what would've been nice? Is if when Devoe saw he was WIDE OPEN he should've BENT IT UP FIELD like as in a skinny post. I mean, now this is against fundamentals but if your man is on the ground and the safety is at mid field would you continue on a route that goes toward him?

Taco, watch the freakin play and tell me I'm wrong.

[Orange_Beard]

3 picks and a Fumble. What else can I say.

[Drek]

I'm just wondering...

the next week when he led us on the scoring drive in overtime, hitting Walker to set up the game winning FG... that doesn't count, right?
Yeah, putting Elam in position for three kicks, throwing a pick, and squandering red zone attempts all day long,THATS winning a game right there! HO DAMN.


Or...

the following week when he played lights-out against a favored team on the raod in a game that was basically a must-win... that doesn't count either, right?
15/30 is lights out? We sqeeze out a 10-7 victory if Walker doesn't break his second TD wide open. Tatum Bell and Javon Walker won last week's game, along with some excellent defense. Jake just didn't hinder the cause like he did in weeks prior.[/QUOTE]

1.) Both hands? Are you kidding me? Who holds the ball with both hands during the throwing motion? Watch it again, your memory is fuzzy he was in the act of throwing but his arm didn't begin to move forward, thus the challenge and the play standing... Both hands until he's actually ready to throw. On that play Jake was holding it in one hand, scanning the field, asking Little to key in on it. The fact that he went into a windup to throw the ball as he saw Little bearing down on him doesn't make it better, it makes it worse since even then he had the chance to tuck and take the sack.


3.) This one is pretty simple. If you want to defend Devoe you can. Jumping up and catching a ball traveling at the trajectory of a punt is about the easiest thing a professional athlete can do. Time that jump even to an average extent and we wouldn't be discussing this as an INT, but instead a large gain. I think you need to go watch the game again. Devoe was open in the center of the field, in front of the goal line. The eventual pick was a good 10 yards away from where Devoe was when the ball left Jake's hand. Sorry, it was really that bad of a throw. When Jake let it fly Chavous was closer to where it was aimed than Devoe. 3rd string WR against a 1st string DB, and the DB was given position. How was that matchup supposed to work out? The best thing Devoe could have done on that play was to 1. knock it down, 2. offensive interference on Chavous or 3. get ready to tackle, in that order. Catching the ball wasn't an option, as Chavous was already under it like he was ready to return a damn punt.

I'm sure the apologists will run off at the mouth about how we all just want to see Jake fail and we'll do the same to Cutler, blah blah blah. Sorry, I root for Jake every Sunday, but I'm not going to keep blinders on when he has a **** game, especially one has outright atrocious as the Rams game. In KC he was still bad. The Pats game is the first appearance of last year's Jake Plummer we've seen, and it came just in time. I'm quite sure he'll lead us into the playoffs and personally I have super bowl expectations for this team, but that doesn't change his poor play to date. Accept it and be ready to celebrate the great run he's gearing up for. Slow start like last year, he's coming out of it and, unlike last year, finding that he has some legit weapons to go to in Walker, Kircus, and Scheffler (when he settles in a bit more).

[labronx]

FIXED IT FOR YA!

Tell me, unless CUTLERFarve or Elway or maybe VIck was throwing that ball, what could've happened differently?

Are you telling me Jake could bullet that pass 35 yards downfield to a receiver running full speed TOWARD a safety? .

Bet ya Cutler can!!!!!

[gunns]

I doubt that.....in any case keep this sh*t in the political forum....

BTW, why is a leftie like yourself mocking gay people (via your avatar) ? That's not very typical of your ilk.....

Take your own advice.

[Northman]

The offensive line is the weakness of the offense, remember? If Plummer had an offensive line that could pass block, we would be 3-0 right now with one of the highest scoring offenses in the league.

Plummer has been sacked 7 times in our last two losses. Extrapolated, that's 56 sacks a year which would be somekind of NFL record. No PROTECTION, no COMPLETION. Ya dig?


You mean the same offensive line that allowed him to go 13-3 last year?

[gunns]

I'm not apologizing for anything. My problem with Plummer is exactly what has happened so far this season.....his inconsistency. Which Plummer will show up for which game.......it's gone on for 3 years. That, and the fact that the WR's are consistently blamed for Plummers INT's. Maybe we should see if we can conjure up another trade, this time for Rod. I mean damn, he dropped one of Plummers "perfectly" thrown balls.

[Northman]

We won, all of you just need to quit complaining. Better yet, go root for a team that deserves some complaining, liek teh Raiders. Bunch of panty wastes.


There's a difference between a team that just flat out sucks and one that is underachieving especially at the Qb position.

[gunns]

You mean the same offensive line that allowed him to go 13-3 last year?

Exactly. Isn't this the same offense line that was so bad in the St. Louis game? So they just showed up for the NE game? Yeah, so did Jake.

[gunns]

We won, all of you just need to quit complaining. Better yet, go root for a team that deserves some complaining, liek teh Raiders. Bunch of panty wastes.

I don't care what goes on with other teams or if they are worse than us. I'm sure Tennessee fans aren't saying it's better to have their problems than the Raiders. Personally I have higher expectations for the Broncos.

[Willynowei]

Both hands until he's actually ready to throw. On that play Jake was holding it in one hand, scanning the field, asking Little to key in on it. The fact that he went into a windup to throw the ball as he saw Little bearing down on him doesn't make it better, it makes it worse since even then he had the chance to tuck and take the sack.
I think you need to go watch the game again. Devoe was open in the center of the field, in front of the goal line. The eventual pick was a good 10 yards away from where Devoe was when the ball left Jake's hand. Sorry, it was really that bad of a throw. When Jake let it fly Chavous was closer to where it was aimed than Devoe. 3rd string WR against a 1st string DB, and the DB was given position. How was that matchup supposed to work out? The best thing Devoe could have done on that play was to 1. knock it down, 2. offensive interference on Chavous or 3. get ready to tackle, in that order. Catching the ball wasn't an option, as Chavous was already under it like he was ready to return a damn punt.


Again, dude, I have the video right infront of me. Everytime you draw up this scenario i watch the torrent and it's really obvious that you are speaking from memory that i think is fuzzy.

Watch it again, lets go through the play step by step.
A.) Plummer play fakes the ball.
B.) Plummer looks right and pump fakes
C.) Plummer attempts a throw right after the pump fake.

Little came in from so far to Plummer's right it is doubtful plummer ever knew he was comming, you're telling me he Jake saw little and tried to get rid of it? Theres no way Jake would stand up straight like that if he knew Leonard little was about to unload on him. Jake's eyes were down field, look at the tape, he never saw the hit comming. ANd he shouldnt, a QB should NEVER look at the rush.

2.) Again i have the tape right infront of me and i urge you to WATCH a REPLAY.

YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE ROUTE DEVOE WAS RUNNING:

He was not running a FLY, he was running a SKINNY POST, right into Corey Chavous. Think about it, it was a play action to the right side, classic shanahan play where all the receivers start dragging toward the right half of the field so Jake only reads half the field.

Classic bronco play, wide out comes across from the other side. Thus, his route took him toward chavous. The throw Jake threw was a jump ball, and whats wrong with that? you can't expect your receiver to beat an opposing safety at a jump ball?

Let me put it this way, lets say that jake didn't have the arm strength to throw it deep into the endzone over the top for devoe to try to get it behind Chavous. Would you really believe that?

Denver was on the 40, Jake threw the ball from the 45. Enzone is 10 yards, that means the throw is 55 yards if he threw it straight down field. You don't think Jake Plummer can throw a 55 yard ball?

I know high school quarter backs that can throw it 55 yards (too bad he's short otherwise he'd play D1). Average guy can throw a ball 40yards, NFL qbs throw an average of 50-60 yards. Jake has an above average arm. I think he can throw it 60 yards. He purposely chose to throw it underneath for the jump ball, and i don't see anything wrong with that. FARVE DOES IT ALL THE TIME.

[Orange_Beard]

Are you telling me Jake could bullet that pass 35 yards downfield to a receiver running full speed TOWARD a safety? I'm sure you know that an Open receiver is not open if hes running toward a defended area, because you have to account for the time the ball takes to get there NO DUH.


The "mistake" was that he did not throw a "bullet pass", he chucked up a duck.
I have watched the game a couple of times, just don't see how you can defend Plummers play.
That pick he threw on the boot was just as bad if not worse, then the wounded duck.
The D kept us in the game, Plummer and the O gave the game away.

[fatcard]

Average guy can throw a ball 40yards, NFL qbs throw an average of 50-60 yards. Jake has an above average arm. I think he can throw it 60 yards. He purposely chose to throw it underneath for the jump ball, and i don't see anything wrong with that. FARVE DOES IT ALL THE TIME.

Yeah but for jake to throw the ball 50 yards he has to put it up in the stratosphere... its like it takes 10 seconds to reach the receiver!

[orangemonkey]

Great analysis Willy! You clearly understand this game.

Jake had a bad game but our receivers had a worst game. That mix is a recipe for disaster but if it takes a game or two for the offense to click and start winning, so be it. I still believe we have one of the most prolific offenseive attacks in the league this year.

Thanks for the read.

[fontaine]

I know high school quarter backs that can throw it 55 yards (too bad he's short otherwise he'd play D1). Average guy can throw a ball 40yards, NFL qbs throw an average of 50-60 yards. Jake has an above average arm. I think he can throw it 60 yards. He purposely chose to throw it underneath for the jump ball, and i don't see anything wrong with that. FARVE DOES IT ALL THE TIME.

ROFL!

I found this especially hilarious considering the fact that Favre is fast closing in on the ALL TIME INTERCEPTION leader (think Brett's just 19 ints short).

[Rock Chalk]

Exactly. Isn't this the same offense line that was so bad in the St. Louis game? So they just showed up for the NE game? Yeah, so did Jake.

This is a retarded argument, let me explain.

See, this is not the same line as last year. Nalen was playing at a pro-bowl level last year. Foster always sucked, but Lepsis was blowing up some of the best DEs in the game last year as well. Jake avoided enough sacks to make that offensive line look a LOT better than it did.

This year, Nalen is even older, not playing anywhere near the level he played last year. Lepsis is still strong but is also not playing up to his level of play last year. Carlisle and Hamilton are being pushed back on pass protection far too much and are unable to handle blitzes as well as they did for the better part of last year.

Foster still sucks.

Jake is STILL avoiding a lot of sacks, one of which prevented a safety in the New England game.

You think the Offensive Line is why we went 13-3 last year? Quit deluding yourself. Jake made plays to avoid being sacked and kept drives alive. Yet, here, he will get NO credit for that. He will get nothing but blame everytime he makes a bad decision, will never get any credit for putting the ball where it should be, will never get any credit for making a big play even if its not many yards.

You know what was different between the NE game and the Rams game? Jake was able to avoid the pressure from the pass rush, and the receivers actually caught balls at key times of the game instead of dropping them. Oh, they still dropped balls making Plummer's throwing percentage look mostly average, but they stepped up their game when the game mattered most. Yet, Plummer STILL just barely "eeked" by according to some nimrods on this site.

Unf***ingbelievable

[Taco John]

Watch it again, lets go through the play step by step.
A.) Plummer play fakes the ball.
B.) Plummer looks right and pump fakes
C.) Plummer attempts a throw right after the pump fake.



It's funny you saw it like that, because I saw it like this:

A.) Plummer play fakes the ball.
B.) Plummer looks right and hesitates, queing the defense where he's going to throw the ball
C.) Plummer attempts a throw right where he just pump faked

[fontaine]

This is a retarded argument, let me explain.

See, this is not the same line as last year.

. . .

You think the Offensive Line is why we went 13-3 last year? Quit deluding yourself. Jake made plays to avoid being sacked and kept drives alive. Yet, here, he will get NO credit for that. He will get nothing but blame everytime he makes a bad decision, will never get any credit for putting the ball where it should be, will never get any credit for making a big play even if its not many yards.


Yeah Jake made some great plays last year.

But to quote you Alec (in the same post):
This is a retarded argument, let me explain.

See, this is not the same line as last year.

(I know that's going to piss you off)

Ha!

You know what was different between the NE game and the Rams game? Jake was able to avoid the pressure from the pass rush, and the receivers actually caught balls at key times of the game instead of dropping them. Oh, they still dropped balls making Plummer's throwing percentage look mostly average, but they stepped up their game when the game mattered most. Yet, Plummer STILL just barely "eeked" by according to some nimrods on this site.

Unf***ingbelievable

Oh and the other difference you forgot:

Jake turned the ball over 4 times in that Rams game.

[fido]

same game, same qb, different takes by different people....
they are all opinions.....mine happens to follow tacos opinions on this matter

[Taco John]

I'm still not sure why anyone wants to drag up Plummer's Rams game. In fact, I'm not even sure if this is a genuine attempt to defend Plummer. I can't help but wonder if someone is so upset that Plummer had a good game, they decided to dig up one of Jake's worst games as a Bronco knowing that it would remind people of how bad Plummer played that game, and keep their mind off of how well he played this last game against New England.

[TXBRONC]

I'm still not sure why anyone wants to drag up Plummer's Rams game. In fact, I'm not even sure if this is a genuine attempt to defend Plummer. I can't help but wonder if someone is so upset that Plummer had a good game, they decided to dig up one of Jake's worst games as a Bronco knowing that it would remind people of how bad Plummer played that game, and keep their mind off of how well he played this last game against New England.


That's an interesting thought. Why not discuss the most rescent game instead where he did play very well?

[freak6]

Anubis's new avatar fkd me all up. That was like a flash grenade, I can't think.

[Jagrego]

True story. Jake did fine. The KC game was the same. No one wants to give KC any credit for playing their collective @$$#$ off.

[TXBRONC]

True story. Jake did fine. The KC game was the same. No one wants to give KC any credit for playing their collective @$$#$ off.

Yes they did play well, but I would disagree that he played well entire KC game. From about midway point in the third quarter through the fourth I would agree. Thankfully, that good play did continue into the New England game.

[Jagrego]

TXBRONC, I agree with you. Fans can be so fickle. I wonder if the New England fans are calling for Jakes job too? ;)

[gunns]

This is a retarded argument, let me explain.

See, this is not the same line as last year. Nalen was playing at a pro-bowl level last year. Foster always sucked, but Lepsis was blowing up some of the best DEs in the game last year as well. Jake avoided enough sacks to make that offensive line look a LOT better than it did.

This year, Nalen is even older, not playing anywhere near the level he played last year. Lepsis is still strong but is also not playing up to his level of play last year. Carlisle and Hamilton are being pushed back on pass protection far too much and are unable to handle blitzes as well as they did for the better part of last year.

Foster still sucks.

Jake is STILL avoiding a lot of sacks, one of which prevented a safety in the New England game.

You think the Offensive Line is why we went 13-3 last year? Quit deluding yourself. Jake made plays to avoid being sacked and kept drives alive. Yet, here, he will get NO credit for that. He will get nothing but blame everytime he makes a bad decision, will never get any credit for putting the ball where it should be, will never get any credit for making a big play even if its not many yards.

You know what was different between the NE game and the Rams game? Jake was able to avoid the pressure from the pass rush, and the receivers actually caught balls at key times of the game instead of dropping them. Oh, they still dropped balls making Plummer's throwing percentage look mostly average, but they stepped up their game when the game mattered most. Yet, Plummer STILL just barely "eeked" by according to some nimrods on this site.

Un****ingbelievable

I'll agree the O line looks weak this year. The same O line that played in the Rams game and the NE game. That does not discount the bonehead throws by Plummer. Those are throws he chose to take instead of a sack. In the Rams game he had his head turned completely to the side and threw it the opposite direction trying to avoid the rush. It was just a miracle it was not picked off. And unless the O line has been bad every year he's been here, he's not always running for his life. He is not a pocket passer.

Sure there's other problems besides Jake but we're addressing Jake. It's pathetic the never ending multitude of excuses that are made for his bonehead plays. The WR's, the O line, our defensive pass rush, etc. etc. He had a good game against NE. Now which Jake will show up for Baltimore. The never ending question.

[Tredici]

.

Watch it again, lets go through the play step by step.
A.) Plummer play fakes the ball.
B.) Plummer looks right and pump fakes
C.) Plummer attempts a throw right after the pump fake.

Little came in from so far to Plummer's right it is doubtful plummer ever knew he was comming, you're telling me he Jake saw little and tried to get rid of it? Theres no way Jake would stand up straight like that if he knew Leonard little was about to unload on him. Jake's eyes were down field, look at the tape, he never saw the hit comming. ANd he shouldnt, a QB should NEVER look at the rush.



The "excuse" paragraph comes in because you conveniently exclude:

D.) After completing the progression and not finding an outlet EXPECT pressure is coming.

Correct one of your statements to "After A B and C there's no way Jake should be standing up straight like that because he's going to get unloaded on."

A QB should never look at the rush. But a good QB will know it's there and that he has to react to it. You're suggestion to pretend it doesn't exist just doesn't account for reality.

[Rock Chalk]

I'll agree the O line looks weak this year. The same O line that played in the Rams game and the NE game. That does not discount the bonehead throws by Plummer. Those are throws he chose to take instead of a sack. In the Rams game he had his head turned completely to the side and threw it the opposite direction trying to avoid the rush. It was just a miracle it was not picked off. And unless the O line has been bad every year he's been here, he's not always running for his life. He is not a pocket passer.

Sure there's other problems besides Jake but we're addressing Jake. It's pathetic the never ending multitude of excuses that are made for his bonehead plays. The WR's, the O line, our defensive pass rush, etc. etc. He had a good game against NE. Now which Jake will show up for Baltimore. The never ending question.

The same pathetic excuses for Elway's incredibly dumb boneheaded plays? Or Favre's? What about Manning's boneheaded plays? Or Brady's? Or Big Ben's excuses for the Cincy collapse this year?

You think Jake is the only one that makes boneheaded plays and costs the team a game? Get real. My only contention is that it is NOT ENTIRELY Jake's fault and starting Cutler (as many of the local slack jawed yokels would infer with their incessant Jake "bashing") is going to help solve the problems? Hell no. Cutler is bound to make even more mistakes as a rookie unable to read complex defenses at this point.

No one ever claimed Jake was the greatest QB. Hell, I dont even think anyone has claimed Jake has at any point been a great QB. But he is a good QB and quite frankly, good QBing is all you need or, should I mention that the last GREAT QB to win a title game was John Freaking Elway. BRady is good, not great. Afterall, Elway with a bunch of ragtag receivers led his team to 3 superbowls, Brady cant even manage to win a game against a good opponent.

Then you have Kurt Warner, not great. Trent Dilfer, not great. Brad Johnson, not great. Big Ben, not great.

Jake will undoubtably make another stupid decision this year and, predictably, he will undoubtably get crucified because of the shortsightedness of idiotic fans. Jake will also undoubtably make some outstanding plays that will go unheralded by those SAME fans. Jake will lead us yet again to a fourth consecutive playoff appearance and, Jake will likely lead us yet again to the AFC Championship but, it wont be because of him. Oh no. He's just out there doing his job. No credit and all the blame.

You people have really started pushing the extremes of what is rational as of late.

If not for some of the more rational fans, and yes I speak of the Jake supporters because in their rational minds they understand Jake is not a world beater and that he isn't going to make every play and every right decision but he IS a winner and he DOES make plays, with his legs, with his arms and with his heart. Jake has done more for Denver than any QB save for John Elway and that includes the great Brian Griese whom our fearless leader loved so much that he fought tooth and nail for the guy right up until the day he was shipped out of town (and come to think of it, Senior Taco defended Griese for many months AFTER that schmuck was gone).

I dont care if you like Jake, and I dont care if you think we Jake supporters are making excuses for him. If it is a disagreement of your own opinion, we are "making excuses" instead of replying with a different view of the same situation using actual logic, something apparently, that is lost on you. Jake made some mistakes in that Rams game, yes, and pretty much everyone agrees with that. That was only part of the problem.

Ever wonder why Devoe has not been active since that Rams game? Think it may have to do with being a complete and total dumbass when it came time to time his jump? I bet you 500 bucks SHanny thinks so.

Or, how is it that when the line starts gelling, which it usually does about the 3rd game of the season, and we stick with one running back, that all of a sudden we start scoring points? Wow, ya think that maybe, just MAYBE that the game plan for the Rams game was not very good. That the idea of switching RBs every series and not going into max protect mode when we were going to pass was not a good one? That maybe, just MAYBE, Shanahan got outcoached...again...by Linehan?

And the KC game, let's talk about that one. Where Jake led a 5 minute 73 yard drive (picking up 59 yards in the air) only to have Elam miss a FG. Where led another 5:34 second drive (mostly on the ground) from our 37 to the KC 5 for a good Elam FG, and where he led yet another long drive (7:16 seconds) of 76 yards gaining 41 of those yards in the air and another 15 on a penalty (so, over half the actual gained yards in the air) for another good field goal. and finally how he led the OT drive to get us in a winning position by gaining 38 of the 63 yards through the air.

Yet, he had some bad drives, most notably due to an improved Kansas City defense that had also stifled a far more potent "passing" offense in Cincinatti the week before.

You people just dont look at things objectively. The defense has been lights out, helping us to stay in games, and Jake, while not perfect...far from it this year...has actually played well in two of our 3 games. Taco also further pointed out that Jake is not a quick starter to ANY season he is in.

We didnt put touchdowns on the board, but so what, we won the KC game. We put the touchdowns on the board and, its not because of Jake I hear, its because of Javon Walker. Hmm, the same Javon Walker that Jake noticed was in single coverage on both of those plays that caught beautiful passes right on the money. Yeah, I bet you Javon Walker isnt complaining about Jake, its only the moronic Jake bashing shortsighted fans that do.

I'll take Jake, his winning percentage, his good plays, his bad plays and everything else over Cutler this year. Next year, we can talk about the new guy, this year, I got faith.

[Willynowei]

The "excuse" paragraph comes in because you conveniently exclude:

D.) After completing the progression and not finding an outlet EXPECT pressure is coming.

Correct one of your statements to "After A B and C there's no way Jake should be standing up straight like that because he's going to get unloaded on."

A QB should never look at the rush. But a good QB will know it's there and that he has to react to it. You're suggestion to pretend it doesn't exist just doesn't account for reality.

So the problem was not that the opposing teams defensive end ran over our runningback as if he wasn't there and got to Jake in relatively no time at all. Instead, Jake held on to the ball too long?

From the point of the ball being snapped to the hit was 3 seconds. Since it was a playaction, from the point of which Jake got set to the point he got hit was less than 2 seconds.

Even on a three step drop a QB should get three seconds to throw, and this was a playaction.

[Taco John]

WHY!? WHY!? WHY!? /Nancy Kerrigan Voice

[Willynowei]

It's funny you saw it like that, because I saw it like this:

A.) Plummer play fakes the ball.
B.) Plummer looks right and hesitates, queing the defense where he's going to throw the ball
C.) Plummer attempts a throw right where he just pump faked

Watch the play again, this time pay attention to the receivers plummers looking at, they are both on your screen.

Broncos come out in a proformation strong left. Kyle Johnson and Tatum in the backfield, Rod Smith and David Kircus are to his left side. Scheffler is the tightend.

Plummers five receiving options:

A.) Tatum stays in to block.
B.) Kircus goes deep down the leftside out of the cameras view.
C.) Scheffler goes upfield.

D.) Rod is on a crossing route.
E.) Kyle Johson leaks out to the flat.

Now, lets see here, plummer looks right both times, and you even said that right Taco?

So you think its hesitation. But it looks like a purposefully drawn up play to me. Kyle Johnson leaks out to the flat, at about 3 yards, Rod is crossing at about 5 yards. Jake looks at Kyle and pumps, watch the linebacker behind Kyle Johnson, he is in the area that Rod Smith is heading toward on the crossing route.

Seems alot like a play shanahan drew up to get the linebacker to bite on the flat and get Rod on the crossing route. Infact, if there was protection and the linebacker bit on the flat, then the commentator would probably have congradulated jake on the smart play. I mean, think about it, two receivers clear up field probably to get the safeties back. The fullback leaks out to clear the linebacker off to the sideline.

That leaves Rod 1 on 1 at mid field on a crossing route. Its a play Denver runs all the time, basically two reads, either Rod or if the linebacker blitzes or hesitates, go to Kyle Johnson. Don't you see us run that all the time Taco? Jake didn't hesitate because he was never looking for kyle. He was trying to get Rod the ball the whole time.

[Taco John]

Why can't you just accept the guy had a bad first game? Hell, the guy has thrown 23 interceptions in his 9 opening starts... We all should have KNOWN he was going to have this kind of game. It's what he does...

Get over it. He is a slow starter... He's found his rhythm now. Things *should* be ok. Unless, of course, he slows down in his start out of the bye against Baltimore. Even if that happens, he can rebound against Oakland. OAKLAND!

[Willynowei]

Why can't you just accept the guy had a bad first game? Hell, the guy has thrown 23 interceptions in his 9 opening starts... We all should have KNOWN he was going to have this kind of game. It's what he does...

Get over it. He is a slow starter... He's found his rhythm now. Things *should* be ok. Unless, of course, he slows down in his start out of the bye against Baltimore. Even if that happens, he can rebound against Oakland. OAKLAND!

Oh he had a bad first game. I didnt see the KC game either, waiting for the torrent. I don't even think he did that well against the patriots, I think he was little jittery at the start of the game, but when he settled in, he made some nice throws.

However, the first 2 weeks i got all my game info from here on the mane, and seeing the 3 ints, it was pretty easy to say "wow Jake's going to cost us the season". But after seeing the torrent, i think everyone else on the team (except the defensel) should take equal responsibility for that loss. So Jake didn't look like the weak link on that offense and that team anymore.

The playoffs are all about Defense and turnover free football. After watching that torrent, I'm confident that as long as the rest of the offense plays well, Jake won't faulter like he did against St.Louis.

Lets keep in mind, what Peyton Manning looks like when he gets smacked around by the pass rushes of teams like the Chargers, Steelers and the old patriots; I don't think Jake deserves anymore blame than his supporting cast that game.

[TXBRONC]

Oh he had a bad first game. I didnt see the KC game either, waiting for the torrent. I don't even think he did that well against the patriots, I think he was little jittery at the start of the game, but when he settled in, he made some nice throws.

However, the first 2 weeks i got all my game info from here on the mane, and seeing the 3 ints, it was pretty easy to say "wow Jake's going to cost us the season". But after seeing the torrent, i think everyone else on the team (except the defensel) should take equal responsibility for that loss. So Jake didn't look like the weak link on that offense and that team anymore.

The playoffs are all about Defense and turnover free football. After watching that torrent, I'm confident that as long as the rest of the offense plays well, Jake won't faulter like he did against St.Louis.

Lets keep in mind, what Peyton Manning looks like when he gets smacked around by the pass rushes of teams like the Chargers, Steelers and the old patriots; I don't think Jake deserves anymore blame than his supporting cast that game.


I disagree, Jake overall looked whole lot better in Patriot game than he did in the first two games of the season. His completion percentage wasn't very good but other than that he had a solid game.

Again I disagree, in the first game of the season which I did watch of the three ints only the second one can be argued as not being his fault (although persoanlly I say that he still bares the greater responsibilty) but the other two are on him as is the one int thrown in the game against the Chiefs.


That being said, those games are in the past and we can't change what happened so we might as well move on and hope that Jake will continue getting into rhythm with his receivers.

[Tredici]

So the problem was not that the opposing teams defensive end ran over our runningback as if he wasn't there and got to Jake in relatively no time at all. Instead, Jake held on to the ball too long?

From the point of the ball being snapped to the hit was 3 seconds. Since it was a playaction, from the point of which Jake got set to the point he got hit was less than 2 seconds.

Even on a three step drop a QB should get three seconds to throw, and this was a playaction.

Okay. So:

D. Running Back's Fault

It was a team loss. Just view it in that perspective.

[orange 4 life]

So i never saw the St.Louis game, and hearing from the KOA broadcast and reading info off the maners here who were supposedly at the game, i assumed Jake was a huge part of the loss that day.

Well i finally downloaded the torrent, and I can't believe what i saw. Jake did not look like a lost, confused quarterback who was exposed by a good defense. He looked like a pro-bowl caliber quarterback who was betrayed by a flat out pathetic performance by his teamates.

Observations (I'll be frank, there were some shocking ones):

1.) Rod Smith was smothered. Plummer had several incompletions that were balls you'd see any great QB throw to his go to guy. Soft, over the top, right to the hands. Rod faced unbelievably good coverage that game, the corner was physical and kept Rod from getting position on jump balls. Rod still produced, but give Kudos to the Rams corner.

2.) This is already apparent, but George Foster couldn't play highschool varsity football if he weren't as big as he is. Flat out, Foster is stupid. If you've played football I'm sure you'll agree that the game is fairly cerebral, knowing how to position yourself and use body leverage is key in blocking, Foster flat out sucks at this in pass protection.
a.) His stance is lazy, too high, hands resting on the thighs, not by the sides ready to fire out. His butt is way too high.
b.) He archs his back because his but is so high and has a generally lazy form. Defenders easily get inside his reach by staying low and exploding into his body. I saw him get lifted up (yes literally) by leonard little and shoved backwards.
c.) He's stupid, no like really stupid. On one play, all little did was line up way to his outside. Instead of shuffling his feet to pick up little, foster stood straight up and checked for a blitz or stunt first even though there was no linebacker within 5 yards. Would it be a good idea to first take care of the other teams leading sacker?

3.) Drops. There were a ton. From early on with Scheffler to Javon to even Rod, everyone had their share of drops.

I reviewed each turnover except the last because the torrent was cut short. Jake is at fault yes, but everyone one of the turnovers were not entirely Jakes fault.

Jakes 1st: Fumble: Jake was pulling the ball back to throw, eyes down field like a good quarterback should. What he didnt know was that he was about to be unloaded on by Little, automatic fumble, not a QB in the league could've avoided it.

Jakes 2nd: INT: Jake dropped back 3 steps, eyes looking at Rod. He began to pull the ball back to throw. As his hand was comming forward, look carefully, a Ram Defender gets his hand into the throwing lane. Jake was near release, so he went ahead and adjusted the throw to the left. However, it was an in, and the corner was able to pick it off because he covered the route well and was inside of Rod, right where the ball was thrown.
I can imagine a guy like Brady tucking the ball and taking the sack, or a tall guy like Rothlesberger throwing it over the defenders reach. Jake made a mistake there, but it was overblown. Had Rod had better position or had there been better protection on a THREE STEP DROP, that never would've been an interception.

Jakes 3rd: INT2: Todd Devoe was wideopen at middle of the field. Jake lobbed one high and infront of him. A safety from behind Todd went up for the ball. However Todd had much better position on the ball. The read was fine, the throw could've been better but it was fine. Devoe did something a Peewee player would do, mis judge a lob. Seriously, you are a widereceiver, and you misjudged a jump ball, get your a** out of this league.

I looked at the stat sheet and I saw over 150 yards rushing, and thought, with that much of a running game and those two guys at wideout, Jake must've really stunk it up.

To be honest, it looked like any probowl QB whos weapons and protection is being raped by the opposing defense. Jake could've avoided one of the mistakes he made in that game by my count. He threw mostly accurate balls, a lot his misses were poor play by the receiver.

Think about it, Devoe should've caught that ball for a huge gain. Walker should've scored a touchdown like twice. The fumble never would've happened if Mike Bell wasn't asked to block leonard little. We have one INT left, and it was a pretty unique scenario. Jake was in his throwing motion as the defensive lineman reached for the ball, it was not a bad read at all.

Honestly, i have no idea why the reports, the broadcasts and the comments of people who actually saw the game were so negative. But I'm here to ask you all to take a look and see if you still think it was Jakes fault that night. I saw about 10% of the blame falls on him.

I'm Digging this CRAP up because i feel Denver fan's owe their quarterback an apology. I'll be the first; Sorry Jake for thinking you were the main reason Denver has a loss in its record right now.


wow.
well done.

as one of plummers biggest supporters, even i had to admit he played poor, but i also noticed (and pointed out) that the ENTIRE offense was terrible.
the pass blocking and some HUGE drops (scheffs wouldve kept the opening drive going, javons cost a td, and devoe mistiming an EASY ball
potentially cost another td) were EVERY BIT as much reason for the loss as jake plummer.....

......yet no one wants to hear that.
its just too much easier to yell for cutler and heap all blame on plummer.

no, plummer wasnt very good in the first two games, but he didnt have alot of help (blocking, drops and lack of separation), he still managed to lead 4th quarter and overtime drives to help beat KC, and then he bounced back with a near flawless performance at new england. even in that game, he had SEVEN passes dropped, but his play (and the defense) was so good we overcame it and got another win.

plummer has been nothing but good since coming to this town, and its a * * * * i n g shame people dont appreciate him.

[orange 4 life]

I still think Plummer was bad in that game.

But, I erased it off of Tivo immediately. I couldn't stand to watch that one again. So, it's tough for me to really evaluate again. I thought he made one really bad throw, and two that could have gone either way. But, when those "go either way" ones go the wrong way, you've had a bad day.

I do know it was a team loss, though. We had a ton of other ####-ups.

I also know that St. Louis had a good game plan for our offense and made it very tough for us to get anything consistent going, besides a few long runs.

We made adjustments for the next week which were obvious and effective.

that about sums it up.
once again, another great post from popps.

[orange 4 life]

You have no clue what you're talking about, sorry but you and everyone who defends Devoe is clueless about that play, probably because you never bothered to watch it more than once.

Devoe ran a deep 15 yard post from left side. The corner covering him collided with another player. Jake was comming off of PLAYACTION. When he turned around Devoe already made his break. He was heading toward midfield. What is jake supposed to do there? What possible throw could he make? Tell me, unless Farve or Elway or maybe VIck was throwing that ball, what could've happened differently?

Are you telling me Jake could bullet that pass 35 yards downfield to a receiver running full speed TOWARD a safety? I'm sure you know that an Open receiver is not open if hes running toward a defended area, because you have to account for the time the ball takes to get there NO DUH.

You know what would've been nice? Is if when Devoe saw he was WIDE OPEN he should've BENT IT UP FIELD like as in a skinny post. I mean, now this is against fundamentals but if your man is on the ground and the safety is at mid field would you continue on a route that goes toward him?

Taco, watch the freakin play and tell me I'm wrong.

first time ive seen someone else mention this. well done again.
i DO think jake played poorly. one of his worst games as a bronco. still, he was FAR from the ONLY reason we lost. if walker and devoe make those catches (and they both shouldve), we probably win the game DESPITE the offense's overall bad performance.

on that play to devoe, it flat out AMAZES me that people say that plummer missed "a wide open devoe".
its basic stuff, and you pointed it out adequately simply by saying "devoe was running TOWARDS the safety."

ideally, devoe breaks off that route (which i think plummer was looking for him to do. if you watch the tape, you see plummer hesitate, and i think that hesitation was the hope that devoe would break route).

when devoe DIDNT break route, an underthrown softy is actually the best chance for a completion (unless someone thinks plummer should throw balls 35 yards on a rope).
the pass was a wobbler, but it was still where it needed to be.
devoe completely misjudged it, and through his hands it goes. giftwrapped for the safety.
plummer takes the fall, but devoe made the critical mistakes (plural).

plummers final int. was a killer as it was just a bad decision to throw to a blanketed rod and while we needed 8 points out of that drive, we didnt need it on that play.
again though, if walker and devoe make those catches we overcome jakes (and the rest of the offense) bad day and win anyway.

its over and we need to look forward, but kudo's to you for at least admitting that its not all plummers fault.
he gets alot of blame in this town and not alot of credit, and it should be the other way around.

[orange 4 life]

FIXED IT FOR YA!

Bet ya Cutler can!!!!!

youre nuts

[Circle Orange]

*quietly waits results for next week's game. Anticipating another explosion of Cutler threads.*

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . . . I saw about 10% of the blame falls on him.

I'm Digging this CRAP up because i feel Denver fan's owe their quarterback an apology. I'll be the first; Sorry Jake for thinking you were the main reason Denver has a loss in its record right now.


I'm glad to see you came to your senses. Well done. Now if I could see some other posters figure out they can't just snap their fingers in September 2006 and poof! the '97/'98 team appears . . . . ..

[Sassy]

They just want to snap their fingers and see #7 instead of #16...they also tend to forget the crappy games that Elway had...

[Circle Orange]

They just want to snap their fingers and see #7 instead of #16...they also tend to forget the crappy games that Elway had...

LOL, but John had GOOD crappy games... Ha!

I always used to marvel at how he could stink the joint up, then do a 'James Bond' rescue with a fourth quarter comeback. It sure kept you from leaving a game until it was over (altho I was more glued to the TV)

[Popps]

To me, the one throw that was baffling was the floater off his back foot. I don't even know who that was intended for. Just awful.

The other two INTs weren't good throws, but I'd say half the time... could have been caught or incomplete. Particularly the last INT (which bunched up everyone's panties around here) ... the LB made a great play diving in front of that pass, and then the DB showed amazing instincts to pluck it out of the air. Bad throw, but a better play.

Jake looked bad, which was probably accentuated by people playing poorly around him.

That's the point that some people around here just refuse to deal with. Plummer is a part of a winning mechanism for this team. But, when people aren't doing their jobs around him, he usually struggles. He's not a do it yourself guy... in other words, he's not Elway.

People mistake that for "he can't play under pressure." Obviously, untrue.
He's won 35 games in 3 years, been in the playoffs all three seasons and played in an AFCCG. In case people may forget.. there is actually a wee-bit of pressure just GETTING INTO the playoffs.

I made a case last week of how the Patriot game was an ENORMOUS amount of pressure on Plummer... maybe his career and our season on the line, and he came out and played very well. I've also made the case that in several seasons, I can only point to one, maybe two games that I thought we deserved to win, but Jake lost for us by playing poorly... and those two games were V E R Y sketchy anyway.

So, team shows up... follows winning blueprint, we win. Team ****-tanks early, falls in a hole, takes crappy penalties, can't pass protect... we lose.

Plummer is a winner with this team. Plummer is not John Elway, nor will he be. So, don't be surprised when we lose if the team plays ****ty around him. Don't be surprised that he throws INTs when we're down by a few scores and he's being sacked on every other play. It IS what it is. Maybe Cutler will be Elway, but Plummer is not. Doesn't mean we can't win a championship with him if we follow the blueprint that won us 35 games.

[Willynowei]

To me, the one throw that was baffling was the floater off his back foot. I don't even know who that was intended for. Just awful.

The other two INTs weren't good throws, but I'd say half the time... could have been caught or incomplete. Particularly the last INT (which bunched up everyone's panties around here) ... the LB made a great play diving in front of that pass, and then the DB showed amazing instincts to pluck it out of the air. Bad throw, but a better play.

Jake looked bad, which was probably accentuated by people playing poorly around him.

That's the point that some people around here just refuse to deal with. Plummer is a part of a winning mechanism for this team. But, when people aren't doing their jobs around him, he usually struggles. He's not a do it yourself guy... in other words, he's not Elway.

People mistake that for "he can't play under pressure." Obviously, untrue.
He's won 35 games in 3 years, been in the playoffs all three seasons and played in an AFCCG. In case people may forget.. there is actually a wee-bit of pressure just GETTING INTO the playoffs.

I made a case last week of how the Patriot game was an ENORMOUS amount of pressure on Plummer... maybe his career and our season on the line, and he came out and played very well. I've also made the case that in several seasons, I can only point to one, maybe two games that I thought we deserved to win, but Jake lost for us by playing poorly... and those two games were V E R Y sketchy anyway.

So, team shows up... follows winning blueprint, we win. Team ****-tanks early, falls in a hole, takes crappy penalties, can't pass protect... we lose.

Plummer is a winner with this team. Plummer is not John Elway, nor will he be. So, don't be surprised when we lose if the team plays ****ty around him. Don't be surprised that he throws INTs when we're down by a few scores and he's being sacked on every other play. It IS what it is. Maybe Cutler will be Elway, but Plummer is not. Doesn't mean we can't win a championship with him if we follow the blueprint that won us 35 games.

That sums it up well Popps. I think the main point i want to make, is that looking forward, Plummer won't carry this team to a superbowl, but if the rest of the team earns it, Plummer won't spoil it either. He just has to be good enough, and I had questions after the St.Louis game. But after watching it myself, i think he is very capable of being the quarterback of a championship team.

[ScottXray]

when devoe DIDNT break route, an underthrown softy is actually the best chance for a completion (unless someone thinks plummer should throw balls 35 yards on a rope).
the pass was a wobbler, but it was still where it needed to be.
devoe completely misjudged it, and through his hands it goes. giftwrapped for the safety.
plummer takes the fall, but devoe made the critical mistakes (plural).


its over and we need to look forward, but kudo's to you for at least admitting that its not all plummers fault.
he gets alot of blame in this town and not alot of credit, and it should be the other way around.

The problem is that the pass was an OVERTHROWN softy, and that Jake should have thrown the ball earlier. He was rolling left and Devoe was in the clear EARLY, at the 25-30 yard line. Jake could have stopped, set and thrown and hit him but he continued his rollout and by the time he set and threw, he had to put the arc on it, and Devoe had to sit and wait for the ball at the five. If Jake would have underthrown it then Devoe would have had position and probably made the catch. Instead Jake threw it over him, almost to the goal line and the safety had better position. Devoe should have tried to knock the ball down. But Jake threw it to the wrong spot. In my book, that means the Int is on Jake.

However,...it is Over. Jake is playing better, and hopefully the rest of the offense continues to gel. I really hope the Jake /Jay threads go away, and we don't have any reason to talk about it again this year.:welcome:

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . . He's not a do it yourself guy... in other words, he's not Elway. . . . . .

. . . . .. It IS what it is. Maybe Cutler will be Elway, but Plummer is not. Doesn't mean we can't win a championship with him if we follow the blueprint that won us 35 games.

Bad Popps! Go to your room without dinner. Penalty box. Don't fuel the fire with Elway comparisons. I agree with your post, but I don't see any point in bringing Elway into the argument. This is a completely different team that has their own identity. And it's darn well about time they have established a new identity. This looks to me like a good O and D, and to start the season by going 11 q's without an opposing TD is a nice identity. I'm curious what the record is for opening the season with only one opposing TD.

[Cito Pelon]

They just want to snap their fingers and see #7 instead of #16...they also tend to forget the crappy games that Elway had...

Yeah, I have tapes of playoff games where Sharpe, Eddie, Rod, TD, Darrien Gordon, Alfred Williams, Neil Smith, Tanuvasa, Atwater, Griffith, Romo, Cadrez, Mobley, Traylor, Carswell, et al bailed the boat to keep it afloat. Those '97/'98 teams were good T-E-A-M-S. This current edition of the Broncos is close to approaching that level of team play.

[Tredici]

I think the main point i want to make, is that looking forward, Plummer won't carry this team to a superbowl, but if the rest of the team earns it, Plummer won't spoil it either. He just has to be good enough, and I had questions after the St.Louis game. But after watching it myself, i think he is very capable of being the quarterback of a championship team.

Had you made this post to begin with no one would've taken much issue with the statement. If you isolate plays you can find reasons why the execution wasn't there and subsequently excuse every player on the field.

Plummer showed he had the capability last season. When he plays well it isn't a surprise. The problem is when he plays poorly it isn't a surprise either. Everyone is always hoping for more good than bad.

[gunns]

The same pathetic excuses for Elway's incredibly dumb boneheaded plays? Or Favre's? What about Manning's boneheaded plays? Or Brady's? Or Big Ben's excuses for the Cincy collapse this year?

You think Jake is the only one that makes boneheaded plays and costs the team a game? Get real. My only contention is that it is NOT ENTIRELY Jake's fault and starting Cutler (as many of the local slack jawed yokels would infer with their incessant Jake "bashing") is going to help solve the problems? Hell no. Cutler is bound to make even more mistakes as a rookie unable to read complex defenses at this point.

No one ever claimed Jake was the greatest QB. Hell, I dont even think anyone has claimed Jake has at any point been a great QB. But he is a good QB and quite frankly, good QBing is all you need or, should I mention that the last GREAT QB to win a title game was John Freaking Elway. BRady is good, not great. Afterall, Elway with a bunch of ragtag receivers led his team to 3 superbowls, Brady cant even manage to win a game against a good opponent.

Then you have Kurt Warner, not great. Trent Dilfer, not great. Brad Johnson, not great. Big Ben, not great.

Jake will undoubtably make another stupid decision this year and, predictably, he will undoubtably get crucified because of the shortsightedness of idiotic fans. Jake will also undoubtably make some outstanding plays that will go unheralded by those SAME fans. Jake will lead us yet again to a fourth consecutive playoff appearance and, Jake will likely lead us yet again to the AFC Championship but, it wont be because of him. Oh no. He's just out there doing his job. No credit and all the blame.

You people have really started pushing the extremes of what is rational as of late.

If not for some of the more rational fans, and yes I speak of the Jake supporters because in their rational minds they understand Jake is not a world beater and that he isn't going to make every play and every right decision but he IS a winner and he DOES make plays, with his legs, with his arms and with his heart. Jake has done more for Denver than any QB save for John Elway and that includes the great Brian Griese whom our fearless leader loved so much that he fought tooth and nail for the guy right up until the day he was shipped out of town (and come to think of it, Senior Taco defended Griese for many months AFTER that schmuck was gone).

I dont care if you like Jake, and I dont care if you think we Jake supporters are making excuses for him. If it is a disagreement of your own opinion, we are "making excuses" instead of replying with a different view of the same situation using actual logic, something apparently, that is lost on you. Jake made some mistakes in that Rams game, yes, and pretty much everyone agrees with that. That was only part of the problem.

Ever wonder why Devoe has not been active since that Rams game? Think it may have to do with being a complete and total dumbass when it came time to time his jump? I bet you 500 bucks SHanny thinks so.

Or, how is it that when the line starts gelling, which it usually does about the 3rd game of the season, and we stick with one running back, that all of a sudden we start scoring points? Wow, ya think that maybe, just MAYBE that the game plan for the Rams game was not very good. That the idea of switching RBs every series and not going into max protect mode when we were going to pass was not a good one? That maybe, just MAYBE, Shanahan got outcoached...again...by Linehan?

And the KC game, let's talk about that one. Where Jake led a 5 minute 73 yard drive (picking up 59 yards in the air) only to have Elam miss a FG. Where led another 5:34 second drive (mostly on the ground) from our 37 to the KC 5 for a good Elam FG, and where he led yet another long drive (7:16 seconds) of 76 yards gaining 41 of those yards in the air and another 15 on a penalty (so, over half the actual gained yards in the air) for another good field goal. and finally how he led the OT drive to get us in a winning position by gaining 38 of the 63 yards through the air.

Yet, he had some bad drives, most notably due to an improved Kansas City defense that had also stifled a far more potent "passing" offense in Cincinatti the week before.

You people just dont look at things objectively. The defense has been lights out, helping us to stay in games, and Jake, while not perfect...far from it this year...has actually played well in two of our 3 games. Taco also further pointed out that Jake is not a quick starter to ANY season he is in.

We didnt put touchdowns on the board, but so what, we won the KC game. We put the touchdowns on the board and, its not because of Jake I hear, its because of Javon Walker. Hmm, the same Javon Walker that Jake noticed was in single coverage on both of those plays that caught beautiful passes right on the money. Yeah, I bet you Javon Walker isnt complaining about Jake, its only the moronic Jake bashing shortsighted fans that do.

I'll take Jake, his winning percentage, his good plays, his bad plays and everything else over Cutler this year. Next year, we can talk about the new guy, this year, I got faith.

Damn Alec let go of Jake's jock. Guess what Alec, I'll take Jake too. I don't know if I'll take him over Cutler because I haven't seen Cutler play in a regular season game but for now I'll take him. If that's the hair you've got up your a** you can pull it out because I don't say this about Jake to start Cutler, IMO a huge mistake. But I won't make excuses for his bonehead plays. Just like I didn't for Elways but his were a lot fewer and farther in between. It's the one consistency Jake has, bonehead plays. Sorry I've never been a fan of Favre's and his bonehead plays don't surprise me in the least. Mannings, like Elways are significantly fewer than Jakes.

No they are not all entirely Jake's fault, but quite a few are head scratchers. The guy cannot handle pressure filled games such as the first game of a season or a playoff game. I knew he'd stink it up in the Rams game because he's quite consistent in doing that in the first game of the season. No last years playoff game, nor the Indy debacles were entirely Jake's fault, but if the team is playing poorly Jake follows suit instead of leading the team. It is not Jake's winning percentage, it's the teams, he has never been the primary reason we've won a game and he has never lead the team and brought the team back when they were playing poorly. That IS a QB's job. He HAS been a significant reason in several games of why we've lost them.

I still don't have confidence in Jake when he comes on the field. He did have some beautiful passes to Javon in the NE game and had a good game. I just don't know if that'll happen in the next game. Hell, I don't want a great QB, just a consistent one. And like Elway and Manning, an occassional bonehead play can be forgiven. But not consistent one's and one's that have an effect on the outcome of the game. No Alec, they aren't all because of dropped balls or poor offensive line play, Jake makes poor decisions.

You may call it actual logic, I call it your opinion. Just like this is my opinion. Doesn't make either of us right or wrong and I don't particulary care if you think I'm right or wrong. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it till Jake does something to change my mind.

[2KBack]

I'm curious what the record is for opening the season with only one opposing TD.

The last time anyone did it in 11 quarters was like 1945, so as far as I'm concerned it's Denvers Record now. I'm too young to count the leather helmet days.

[Popps]

I agree with your post, but I don't see any point in bringing Elway into the argument.

My point in bringing Elway into any argument about Plummer is always to stress the point that John needed a proper functioning mechanism around him to win a championship.. why wouldn't a less-talented QB like Jake?

People around here seem to put a ton of stock in a QBs performance when the team falls into a ****-hole. Elway played his heart out while his team put him in ****-holes and it got him nothing but playoff and Superbowl disappointment. Then, the franchise surrounded him with play-makers and a great defense, and he earned a couple of rings.

Of course, a defense that allowed an average of only 16 points per playoff game makes life pretty easy on any QB.....



The performance of Robinson's defense throughout the '98 playoffs was paramount to Denver's quest for a second straight title. The Broncos allowed opponents just 53.0 rushing yards per game in the postseason and forced a remarkable 13 turnovers in just three games. Denver allowed just 25 total points during that stretch.

[Kaylore]

They just want to snap their fingers and see #7 instead of #16...they also tend to forget the crappy games that Elway had...
This has nothing to do with Elway. That's a cop out for people who won't discuss Jake's weaknesses. "You just expect him to be John Elway." No we don't.

I defend Jake quite a bit but he has his weaknesses and I see them. Some of the criticism of Jake is totally valid. However, there is a difference between wanting your QB to not turn the ball over 4 times in one game and wanting Jonh Elway quality play. A lot of people here wouldn't mind if Jake posted very modest numbers and just never turned the ball over and let the run game and defense take care of things. That's not asking too much and it certainly isn't asking for John Elway.

Believe me, the Plummer critics are more than resigned to the fact that Jake Plummer won't ever be Elway. No one will.

[TXBRONC]

This has nothing to do with Elway. That's a cop out for people who won't discuss Jake's weaknesses. "You just expect him to be John Elway." No we don't.

I defend Jake quite a bit but he has his weaknesses and I see them. Some of the criticism of Jake is totally valid. However, there is a difference between wanting your QB to not turn the ball over 4 times in one game and wanting Jonh Elway quality play. A lot of people here wouldn't mind if Jake posted very modest numbers and just never turned the ball over and let the run game and defense take care of things. That's not asking too much and it certainly isn't asking for John Elway.

Believe me, the Plummer critics are more than resigned to the fact that Jake Plummer won't ever be Elway. No one will.

I totally agree. I know that Jake Plummer is never going to preform at the level of John Elway and have never expected him too.

What gets me is when Jake does make a mistake that some people look to always shift the blame elsewhere. Certainly there are time when mistakes happen that are not his fault. For instance, T. Bell fumbling against the Rams that wasn't his fault, or for that matter I don't fault him for the fumble he had against the Rams.

Where I hold Jake responsible is the ints that he has thrown this year. So far those turnovers are on him. I heard people say (not on this board) that Smith couldn't get away from the coverage therefore its Rod's fault. No imo it isn't. If Rod can't get away from the coverage that means he covered, and shouldn't throw to ball to him.

At anyrate if Jake can play at the level he did against the Pasties I think will be fine for this year. I don't know if that will still be good enough to get us where we want to go, but what I am sure of is that we'll win alot games if can play like that.

[Circle Orange]

WHY!? WHY!? WHY!? /Nancy Kerrigan Voice

And just think, it's a BYE week. Didn't I warn people? ;D

[Cito Pelon]

BTW, I watched the KC game again, and seeing that fade to Scheff again in the end zone, I think the wind caught it. Jake is not responsible for Acts of God, folks. Just thought I'd mention that.

[Sassy]

For those of you not in Denver...it was EXTREMELY windy that weekend...