Over: Schools in Bailey colo on lockdown..GUNMAN WITH HOSTAGES GUNS & BOMBS!

[bfoflcommish]

http://www.9news.com/acm_news.aspx?OSGNAME=KUSA&IKOBJECTID=f0907283-0abe-421a-01d9-13eae7db41d7&TEMPLATEID=0c76dce6-ac1f-02d8-0047-c589c01ca7bf

[12th man]

Im watching it on CNN. I just turned now.

[MechanicalBull]

I can't believe CNN just cut in with the TO press conference over people/kids being hostages in a school with a gunman with guns and bombs.

[Old Dude]

Oh, crap.

[broncosteven]

This is something that should have our attention not that loser TO.

My thoughts are with the hostages & their families.

[12th man]

I can't believe CNN just cut in with the TO press conference over people/kids being hostages in a school with a gunman with guns and bombs.

Yeah, that's not right at all. You know, family members of the kids in the school were probably watchin, and then they cut to TO. That's just wrong.

[smalltowngrll]

DENVER (Reuters) - Students were evacuated from a Colorado high school on Wednesday after a gunman who said he had explosives took at least four hostages, authorities said.

"It is a hostage situation, an adult is holding the hostages, he claims to have explosives," said Lance Clem, spokesman for the Colorado state troopers.

Clem said five people had been taken hostage but that one had already been released.

There were reports of possible gunfire in the school, Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado, KUSA television in Denver reported on its Web site.

It said at least four area schools were on lockdown and medical support had been requested


BAILEY, Colo. - An adult gunman took at least four people hostage at the high school in this tiny mountain town Wednesday and several shots were reported fired, authorities said.

There were no immediate reports of injuries.

Hundreds of students were evacuated from Platte Canyon High School.

[bfoflcommish]

Well if TO was doing it for attention he sure got it I guess.....Priorities whacked at CNN

[DB-Freak]

**** Cnn.

[WABronco]

It ain't TO's fault...not like this really matters in comparison though. Yet another media creation...but it's really too bad that CNN's priorities are severely out of place.

[MechanicalBull]

cnn stopped covering the colorado coverage for this crap

[Kaylore]

cnn stopped covering the colorado coverage for this crap

I haven't watched CNN for years.

Man I hope those people are ok.

[OrangeShadow]

damn first i head about this

[broncosteven]

Where is this in relation to Monument CO?

[bfoflcommish]

Where is this in relation to Monument CO?


I believe it's quite a bit north west of Monument.

[Killericon]

Jesus.

[Bronx33]

I believe it's quite a bit north west of Monument.


It's up west of redrocks ampitheater....

[Florida_Bronco]

Hopefully the law enforcement people on the ground can end this without any hostage casualties.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Where is this in relation to Monument CO?

Bailey is on 285 on the way to Fairplay, it's a little south and west of Denver.

[Taco John]

:kiddingme

[Crushaholic]

I heard that this was in the same county as Columbine...:nono:

[broncosteven]

Bailey is on 285 on the way to Fairplay, it's a little south and west of Denver.

I emailed my friend that I get my tickets from. His wife works in one of the districts north of Monument in the guidance dept. I don't know which one. He said Baily is 20 miles north of them & it is not her district, she got called in for the aftermath of columbine though. She is OK. He said he heard they are brininging in a tank. Sure hope they get the hostages out safely.

[defenseman]

I emailed my friend that I get my tickets from. His wife works in one of the districts north of Monument in the guidance dept. I don't know which one. He said Baily is 20 miles north of them & it is not her district, she got called in for the aftermath of columbine though. She is OK. He said he heard they are brininging in a tank. Sure hope they get the hostages out safely.

Let's hope the authorities can act quickly to find a solution to this. Time is just as important here as it was at Columbine. I'm guessing SWAT and such will effect a rapid response, hopefully. It cost them dearly upon delaying any sort of response at columbine...dman

*tank? I would think more an APC at this point.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I heard that this was in the same county as Columbine...:nono:

It's not. Columbine is in Jefferson County, and Bailey is in Park county. The counties do border each other though.

[Florida_Bronco]

I heard that this was in the same county as Columbine...:nono:

I don't believe so. MSNBC mentioning that the Sheriff's Department from that county has been called in for assistance due to their experience.

Edit: Herc beat me to it.

[broncosteven]

Let's hope the authorities can act quickly to find a solution to this. Time is just as important here as it was at Columbine. I'm guessing SWAT and such will effect a rapid response, hopefully. It cost them dearly upon delaying any sort of response at columbine...dman

*tank? I would think more an APC at this point.

Don't know what an APC is. Armored Personell Carrier? I thought he meant a little tank with a ram on the end where the canon would go though.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Press conference now. Adult male still has two female students as hostages and they know very little about motive but rumors (told to news reporters by school staff) it could be a custody issue.

This school is fairly new and is right on 285 about 5 miles outside of Bailey. Only a couple of houses close to the school but several pockets of houses nearby.

[bfoflcommish]

The standoff is over and they have killed the gunman, but in the process he shot 1 of the female hostages, she is critically injured and was transported by flight for life.

I hope she is fine!

I am glad he is not!

[fido]

channel 9 to carry the press conference on 1630hrs local

[Bronx33]

The standoff is over and they have killed the gunman, but in the process he shot 1 of the female hostages, she is critically injured and was transported by flight for life.

I hope she is fine!

I am glad he is not!


Man! i hope she pulls through...

[Kaylore]

The standoff is over and they have killed the gunman, but in the process he shot 1 of the female hostages, she is critically injured and was transported by flight for life.

I hope she is fine!

I am glad he is not!

What a wicked man. Just a wicked, evil man. I hope he burns in hell. If that girl doesn't live or is premanantly disabled in some way, they should feed his body to some wild dogs.

[Spider]

Some real pissed off people in Colorado ........ I just hope the hostages make it out alive and the Gunmen taking a dirt nap ............

[Bronx33]

What a wicked man. Just a wicked, evil man. I hope he burns in hell. If that girl doesn't live or is premanantly disabled in some way, they should feed his body to some wild dogs.


Another example why people suck..

[Bronx33]

She just arrived at st anthonys they said she had vital signs when she was loaded on the chopper (which is a good sign)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What the hell is wrong with people?????? Are we going to have to put metal detectors in doorways in all schools and man them with police?

[Los Broncos]

Dam kinda sad some one was shot, hope she makes it.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

My duaghter's middle school has a sherrifs deputy on site duirng school hours. Sounds like metal detectors would have done no good in this case. Guess he just forced his way in.

[Hotrod]

f***er

[Bronco_Beerslug]

My duaghter's middle school has a sherrifs deputy on site duirng school hours. Sounds like metal detectors would have done no good in this case. Guess he just forced his way in.
I don't know, if this stuff keeps happening going to have to do something to protect these kids.

[Florida_Bronco]

Major props to the law enforcement in the area for executing this breach.

[Bronx33]

Nurses were giving CPR when the girl arrived at the hospital.

[Florida_Bronco]

Nurses were giving CPR when the girl arrived at the hospital.

We definetly need to say some prayers for her.

[Hotrod]

What pisses me off is this sick **** wont have to serve a day or anything. The spineless b**** prolly had no intent of living thru this and facing up for his actions. ****er

[Bronx33]

The sheriff says the gunman shot himself...

[Florida_Bronco]

The sheriff says the gunman shot himself...

What a pussy.

[Hotrod]

The sheriff says the gunman shot himself...

See the spinless *****......its times like this you pray to heaven there is a hell.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I don't know, if this stuff keeps happening going to have to do something to protect these kids.

Agree.

[Bronx33]

Alot of question are yet to be answered per the sheriff they just haven't completed all the investigating from what the sheriff says the girl was shot just once.

[PLOWHORSE]

Agree.

The Damn liberals wont let us...infringes on our rights to freedoms! F*** em all!

[Florida_Bronco]

Still no updates on girl from MSNBC

[Bronx33]

Still no updates on girl from MSNBC

Iam watching the news live..

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The Damn liberals wont let us...infringes on our rights to freedoms! **** em all!
I don't know of one "liberal" that objects to doing whatever has to be done to protect our children in school.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Sherrif is pretty popular up there and is doing a good job with the press conference for someone who knows many of the families and does not have experience with this type of situation.

[Bronx33]

I don't know of one "liberal" that objects to doing whatever has to be done to protect our children in school.


Paying for it is always the issue.

[PLOWHORSE]

I don't know of one "liberal" that objects to doing whatever has to be done to protect our children in school.

They don't have a problem per se, but if the solution infringes on your any minute notion of freedoms it won't fly.

[heydensmom]

OMG.....I hope she is fine.....my thoughts and prayers are with the families

[Bronco_Beerslug]

They don't have a problem per se, but if the solution infringes on your any minute notion of freedoms it won't fly.
I haven't see any evidence of this when it comes to our kids safety in school.

It's obvious we're going to have do something more than what we've done to this point..

[dbfan4life]

This is terrible. Hope the girl makes in out alright.

[defenseman]

Major props to the law enforcement in the area for executing this breach.

Word I got from a buddy of mine in your neck of the woods, very organized, coordinated breach of the school. They took him out relatively quickly, as little danger to hostages as could be exacted. Comms were very good, execution very good. Good job to law enforcement and school officials alike. Pray for the girl...dman

[Bronx33]

Word I got from a buddy of mine in your neck of the woods, very organized, coordinated breach of the school. They took him out relatively quickly, as little danger to hostages as could be exacted. Comms were very good, execution very good. Good job to law enforcement and school officials alike. Pray for the girl...dman


There very well could have been two injured hostages.

[Bronx33]

The girl was shot iin the head still waiting for word.

[Bronx33]

Peliminary word is she has died per the chaplin.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Colo. gunman shoots hostage, kills self


By CHASE SQUIRES, Associated Press Writer 13 minutes ago

BAILEY, Colo. - A middle-aged gunman walked into the high school of this mountain town Wednesday, shot and critically wounded a student and then killed himself after SWAT team members entered the building, authorities said.

http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/rids/20060927/i/r2421952306.jpg?x=380&y=253&sig=.z0Fk4e6Hs.f2yoiJcYSdQ--
Jean Hasse (L) hugs her daughter Kelly after they were reunited after Kelly was released from the Platte Canyon High School in Bailey, Colorado, September 27, 2006 after shots were fired at the school and hostages taken. REUTERS/Rick Wilking (UNITED STATES)

Park County Sheriff Fred Wegener said authorities decided to enter the school after the suspect cut off negotiations and set a deadline. At the time, the gunman had turned four student hostages loose but was still holed up with two girls.
"It was then decided that a tactical solution needed to be done in an effort to save the two hostages," the sheriff said, his voice breaking. "Entry was made. The suspect shot one of the hostages, then shot himself."
He said the suspect had threatened his hostages virtually throughout the four-hour ordeal. The suspect was not immediately identified, and the sheriff was at a loss to explain a motive.
"I don't know why he wanted to do this," Wegener said.
http://tinyurl.com/owwup

[BroncsRule]

They don't have a problem per se, but if the solution infringes on your any minute notion of freedoms it won't fly.

WTF????

Um, it's CONSERVATIVES* that back the 2nd ammendment to the hilt, even in the face of common sense evidence to the contrary.

Progressives have led the charge to make us all "safer" - in our cars, in our schools, safe from 2nd hand smoke in public spaces, etc, etc, etc..


*and the occasional Libertarian

[Florida_Bronco]

Word I got from a buddy of mine in your neck of the woods, very organized, coordinated breach of the school. They took him out relatively quickly, as little danger to hostages as could be exacted. Comms were very good, execution very good. Good job to law enforcement and school officials alike. Pray for the girl...dman

Good to hear bro.

[BroncsRule]

Sad sad sad.

Prayers for the family.

[Florida_Bronco]

Peliminary word is she has died per the chaplin.

Damn, hate to hear that.

[Bronx33]

The family has requested that no information be givin out at this time.

[Florida_Bronco]

The family has requested that no information be givin out at this time.

So I take it that there is no confirmation of her condition yet?

[Bronx33]

So I take it that there is no confirmation of her condition yet?


Nope, they announced this at the press conference at the hospital.

[Northman]

Ahh, such a shame it had to come to this. If this was over a custody battle i guess parents should rethink how they treat one another and use their kids as pawns. Happens all the time and eventually some parents just loose it mentally.

[Florida_Bronco]

WTF????

Um, it's CONSERVATIVES* that back the 2nd ammendment to the hilt, even in the face of common sense evidence to the contrary.

Progressives have led the charge to make us all "safer" - in our cars, in our schools, safe from 2nd hand smoke in public spaces, etc, etc, etc..


*and the occasional Libertarian

Hey bro, I don't mean to sound like I'm on a high horse here, but let's not make this about politics...there will be plenty of time for that later.

[Bronx33]

It's official the girl died .......

[BroncsRule]

Right you are.

Not trying to hijack the thread.

[Bronx33]

This kinda puts thing in perspective, all you parents out there tell your kids you love em all the time because you never know if something like this could happen. (And you missed that chance)

[Spider]

Sad the girl died ....... I Am glad the bastard offed himself , now we dont have to support this retard in prision ......... I wish he would have suffered more as he laid there dying ................ Some one said Custody battle ? Good thing this loon didnt have custody , anyone this ****ing stupid doesnt need to be near any kid including his own .........

[Bronx33]

Sad the girl died ....... I Am glad the bastard offed himself , now we dont have to support this retard in prision ......... I wish he would have suffered more as he laid there dying ................ Some one said Custody battle ? Good thing this loon didnt have custody , anyone this ****ing stupid doesnt need to be near any kid including his own .........


I truely doubt this girl had anything to do with the divorce (if) that was the senerio it's just a shame she had to pay the untimate price (she didn't deserve this) reguardless of the situaition.

[watermock]

I wouldn't call myself a righteous man to say the least, but I try to maintain some sort of moral compass.

If we are truly judged apon death, can you imagine trying to make a case before St. Peter after you killed a defensless child in cold blood then committed another sin by taking your own life? We will all die sooner than later. Life is short enough...no reason to hurry up.

I don't really know the circumstances, was the girl his daughter? Someone mentioned a custody battle. If there is an afterlife, he's going to feel infernal heat. God gave us the ability of free will, he probably regrets it at times like this. A little girl...how sick is that? And in the quiet, supposedly safe town of Bailey to boot. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr..........Bailey is like South Park on Qualudes.

Things like this bring conflicting emotions from sorrow to anger to tears.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

So sad this unexplainable nonsense and tradegy happens in our country.

--------------------------------------------
Gunman kills hostage, self in standoff
By CHASE SQUIRES, Associated Press Writer 12 minutes ago

BAILEY, Colo. - A gunman took six girls hostage at the high school in this mountain town Wednesday, using them as human shields for hours before he shot and fatally wounded a girl and then killed himself as a SWAT team moved in, authorities said.


http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20060927/capt.ac0d116bc0b24306a21605aa04f77304.school_evacu ation_coea104.jpg?x=305&y=345&sig=yypms_7JOSM74EHULwnCNw--
Platte Canyon High School student Zach is reunited with his aunt Loren, both of whom only gave their first names, after he was evacuated from the school near Bailey, Colo., on Wednesday, Sept. 27, 2006. In a scene recalling the horror of Columbine, a gunman took six girls hostage at the high school in this mountain town Wednesday, holding authorities at bay for hours before he shot and critically wounded a girl and then killed himself as SWAT team members moved in. (AP Photo/Ed Andrieski)

The gunman, believed to be between 30 and 50 years old, was cornered with the girls in a second-floor classroom, and he released four of them, one by one.

Park County Sheriff Fred Wegener said authorities decided to enter the school to save the two remaining hostages after the man cut off negotiations and set a deadline. He said the gunman had threatened the girls throughout the four-hour ordeal and had shielded himself with the hostages.

The suspect was not immediately identified, and the sheriff was at a loss to explain a motive.

"I don't know why he wanted to do this," Wegener said, his voice breaking.

The wounded girl was taken to a Denver hospital in critical condition, but was declared dead, a hospital spokeswoman said. She did not release the girl's name.

The last hostage was unharmed and talking with authorities.

After the suspect entered the building, hundreds of students at Platte Canyon High School were evacuated in a scene that recalled the horror at Columbine just a short drive away.

Students said the bearded suspect wore a dark blue hooded sweat shirt and a camouflage backpack. The sheriff said the man threatened to set off a bomb he claimed to have in the backpack. The man was also toting a handgun.

Authorities had what they described as "sporadic" negotiations with the suspect and urged him to contact them for more discussion. Officers eventually crept close to the building, and there were reports of an explosion inside.

Lynn Bigham, who said she was a family friend of a wounded hostage, said the girl had just turned 16.

"I've been praying she'll be OK," she said. "She's real bubbly. Every time you see her, she gives you a hug."

The sight of students fleeing the high school in long lines, and of frantic parents scrambling to find their children, evoked memories of the 1999 attack on Columbine High School, where two students killed 13 people before committing suicide.

Students described a chaotic scene inside after the intercom announced "code white" and everyone was told to stay in their classrooms.

The high school and a nearby middle school were soon evacuated. Jefferson County authorities — who also handled the attack at Columbine — sent a bomb squad and SWAT team to the high school.

"I'm just terrified. I'm terrified," said Sherry Husen, whose son plays on the high school football team and was told not to return to school from his part-time job. "I know so many kids in that school."

Students from the two evacuated schools were taken to another school for a head count. Ambulances were parked in the end zone of the high school's football field, and a tank-like SWAT team vehicle was parked nearby on a closed highway.

Parents pressed authorities for details but had little information on their children.

Bill Twyford said he received a text message from his 15-year-old son, Billy, a student at the high school, at about 11:30 a.m. It said: "Hey there, there's a gun hijacking in school right now. I'm fine, bad situation though."

Michael Owens, who has one son at the middle school and another in the high school, said the anxiety was worse because of the memory of Columbine.

"Things that are out of your control," he said. "It's like an earthquake."

Tom Mauser, whose son Daniel was among the students slain at Columbine, said: "Any adult who holds kids hostage is reprehensible."

The schools are in a narrow, winding canyon carved by the South Platte River about 35 miles southwest of Denver. They have an enrollment of about 770 students, with 460 in the high school.

Husen's family moved to Bailey from suburban Denver about 14 years ago.

"We moved up here for the mountain solitude, and I just never thought this would happen in this school, but it happens everywhere," she said.

___

Associated Press writers Pat Graham, Don Mitchell, Jon Sarche, Catherine Tsai, Judith Kohler, Robert Weller and photographer David Zalubowski contributed to this report.
http://tinyurl.com/z22fa

[Malcontent]

Completely unneccesary and unacceptable! Sad...

[Man-Goblin]

Man. Having gone to Columbine, this story kept me glued to the news all day long during work. I didn't lose anyone dear to me in that episode, but I can certainly feel for those that were affected by this mess. Sad, sad stuff.

[ZONA]

It's over - the gunman shot and killed one student and then shot himself to death.

[Florida_Bronco]

Wow, very sad to hear about her death.

[Turf Shaman]

What to say... What can anyone do about all the depraved people on this planet? They exist, they aren't going away, and there's nothing we can do about it. For those with kids, raise them right.

[youcandoit1687]

wow. tragic. that is going to be extremely hard for that school to recover. i cant imagine something like that at my school. prayers to all involved.

[broncosteven]

Very sad, I don't know what I would do if it were my child. My thoughts are with the families & the parents of the girl who had her life in front of her.

[youcandoit1687]

something does need to be done about the security at these schools but im not sure what exactly. my school is in a not-so-nice part of town and is far from being totally secured. there is an alley right next to it with only a chain link fence separating the school from the alley and the alley is open during school and anyone could come in. they have a security guard at the entrance to the parking lot but no one in the alley. there also isnt a guard at the parking lot entrance in the mornings so anybody could pull in. doesnt make much sense.

the "lockdown" procedure also does not really cover these things, for instance, a lot of the classes are attachedby back offices so if someone got into one class, theoretically, he could get into all of them in a certain building, i dont know if there are locks on these doors. also worrisome is that the bell that sounds for lockdown situation is not very distinct and i couldnt tell u the difference between that and fire or earthquake bells. i think the one advantage that my school and most schools in warmer temperature schools have is that there arent many in building corridors and i think columbine and the other schools that have had these situations were all enclosed hallways.

scary stuff, im not sure if anything that drastic can be done realistically. there are threats internally and externally, you just have to hope that nothing happens i guess and if it does, then have the students be prepared. its sad that we have to live like this

[Rascal]

Columbine it close to home and this just reopens a old wound.

One thing I don't understand though. Surely it was SWAT who entered and not regular policeman, but how in the world could they have allowed this to happen:

Wegener said the man shot at officers who stormed into the classroom, then shot the victim and then killed himself, as officers rushed in.

The guy got off at least three shots before policeman were able to shot him even once?

[Houshyamama]

something does need to be done about the security at these schools but im not sure what exactly.
I attended Columbine as well, and I'll tell you what. Even with the hyper security afterwards, it was still relatively unprotected. There is nothing to be done security wise. Security treats the symptom, not the disease.

[milehimike]

What the hell is wrong with people?????? Are we going to have to put metal detectors in doorways in all schools and man them with police?They do it in LA.

[watermock]

I agree they stormed too soon...there were only two hostages left...It's a hard call, but a little girl shouldn't have to pay with her life for being toon abrupt.

Honestly, I don't think they should of stormed it but let him become exausted first.

I'M PISSED. Want to know aht I do? I don't storm...I get the jaitor key and keep talking to the nutcase. I sneak into his back and take him out. They can put ctuff in the lock so it doesn't heven hardly cllick.

Christ, you just take a man in barfooted with a vest and helmet, foam the lock and door jam, while he's talking to someone else. A quiet foam...he goes in, walks not in boots, but barefoot, and gets his shot.

That is how mock would of handled it. I take the idiot out from behind while your "negotiating"....you come from benind in silence and take him out. Storming the School was tyoical pig mentality. They could of easily gone in on of multiple entrances.

[Slag02]

Crazy Crazy people in this world -

so sad things like that have to happen-

all this death and destruction so not nessacary- it can happen anywhere
**********************************************
Autopsy: Slain woman's kids were drowned

<!-- END HEADLINE --> <!-- BEGIN STORY BODY --> By JIM SUHR, Associated Press WriterSun Sep 24, 6:49 PM ET

A woman accused of killing a pregnant woman and her fetus told police she drowned the woman's three young children and stuffed them into a washer and dryer at their apartment, an official said Sunday.
Preliminary autopsies on the dead children Sunday appear to show they were drowned, Ace Hart, a deputy St. Clair County coroner, told The Associated Press.
As of Sunday, Tiffany Hall, 24, had not been charged in the children's deaths, but prosecutors on Saturday accused Hall of killing their mother, Jimella Tunstall, 23, and her fetus. The fetus had been cut from her womb, authorities said.
According to Sunday's autopsies, there were no signs of physical abuse or trauma on the children — ages 7, 2, and 1 — and toxicology tests were pending "to see if they were poisoned or possibly drugged," Hart said.
"They were not drowned there in the wash machine," Hart stressed.
On Sunday, the community turned to prayer to understand the slayings at a service for the slain family.
"This is an opportunity for people to turn to God," said Debra Kenton, a member of the New Life Community Church. "Who else can explain things like this?"
Authorities suspect Tunstall was slain on or about Sept. 15.
That day, Hall summoned police to a park, saying she had given birth to a stillborn child, Hart said. She was arrested after she told her boyfriend during the baby's funeral that the baby wasn't his and that she had killed the mother to get it, authorities said.
Tunstall's body was found Thursday, and authorities began a furious search for her children. Police said the children were last seen with the Hall on Monday.
Authorities had visited Tunstall's apartment Friday but noticed nothing amiss while looking for photographs of the children for media outlets to publicize in their search, Hart said.
Hall told police where the bodies were and told police she drowned them, Hart said. He said he understood why investigators may have overlooked the children during their previous trip to the apartment. "Who would be looking in the washer and dryer?"
By Saturday night, Hart said, "you could find them by the smell."
The oldest, 7-year-old DeMond Tunstall, was found in the dryer and the younger two children — 2-year-old Ivan Tunstall-Collins and 1-year-old Jinela Tunstall — in the washer. Two of the children were found nude, the third wearing only underpants, Hart said.
Hall remained jailed Sunday on $5 million bond, charged with first-degree murder in Tunstall's death and with intentional homicide of an unborn child.
Meanwhile, stuffed animals continued to mount outside Tunstall's apartment, its door crisscrossed with white evidence tape. There was a white teddy bear, and a stuffed race car with DeMond's name.
An autopsy showed that Jimella Tunstall bled to death after sustaining an abdominal wound caused by a sharp object, believed to be scissors, Hart has said. Authorities believe her womb was cut open after she was knocked unconscious.
Relatives say Tunstall grew up with Hall and had let her baby-sit her children. Hall has two children of her own. Illinois State Police Capt. Craig Koehler said they are "safe and sound."
Hall likely will be arraigned Monday on the two charges, each carrying a 20 to 60 years or life in prison, prosecutors said. The murder count could be punishable by the death penalty.
DNA tests should determine definitively whether the baby was the one Tunstall was carrying, Hart said.

[maven]

Surely it was SWAT who entered and not regular policeman, but how in the world could they have allowed this to happen:

Wegener said the man shot at officers who stormed into the classroom, then shot the victim and then killed himself, as officers rushed in.

The guy got off at least three shots before policeman were able to shot him even once?

Didn't like this also. Damn, SWAT goes in blazing. And what was the damn hurry? Drag it out. He already released 4. Work on the last two for as long as it takes while setting up someone to get in there & kill him.

[watermock]

I don't know where to go with that than to his the biatch over the head with a Barry Bonds sized bat.

[watermock]

what was the damn hurry? Drag it out. He already released 4. Work on the last two for as long as it takes while setting up someone to get in there & kill him.

That is my opinion as well. his wasn't a bunch of IslamoFacists taking over LAX.

They should of just aited him out till he passed out.

Idiots.

Hou dn't even need to kill the asshole. You have to save the child. Storming was idiodiic.

[Taco John]

It's easy to second guess the cops in these life and death situations.

It's unfortunate the way it ended to be sure. Puzzling that this guy got so many shots off before anyone was able to do anything about it. It'll be investigated out the wazoo and nobody's life will be better off for it.

[Florida_Bronco]

Everyone here second guessing the SWAT team obviously has not watched or read any of the reports and are looking for something to pick apart. Let me educate you guys, since you probably missed it when they explained it yesterday. There were 6 points that one police negotiator listed as reasons why they went in, I'll list what I can remember.

The gunman never spoke directly to negotiators, only through the hostages.

The gunman had also been threatening the hostages for the entire ordeal.

The gunman had already fired shots.

The gunman had set a "deadline" and cut off negotiations.

Law Enforcement had no other choice but to breach the room and try to end the situation. As for why the gunman was able to get off those shots, it's really hard to say because there are so many variables that go into it but everything I've seen says that the gunman was using the 1 girl as a human shield, so SWAT would have had to shoot through her to hit the gunman.

So there you go, now you know why they didn't continue negotiation.

[Rascal]

It's easy to second guess the cops in these life and death situations.

It's unfortunate the way it ended to be sure. Puzzling that this guy got so many shots off before anyone was able to do anything about it. It'll be investigated out the wazoo and nobody's life will be better off for it.

I believe that they honesty thought they had no choice but to take him down then, but like I said, and you mentioned here, how in the world can he get off that many shots without a single response from the cops even if the jackass was using her as a shield. I've seen some of these guys shoot and they could put a bullet anywhere.

[bendog]

I believe that they honesty thought they had no choice but to take him down then, but like I said, and you mentioned here, how in the world can he get off that many shots without a single response from the cops even if the jackass was using her as a shield. I've seen some of these guys shoot and they could put a bullet anywhere.

Just a guess, but maybe they were doing everything they could not to give the a-hole a reason to kill the girl.

btw, Joel Myrick - hero.
http://www.davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

[Bronx33]

Man. Having gone to Columbine, this story kept me glued to the news all day long during work. I didn't lose anyone dear to me in that episode, but I can certainly feel for those that were affected by this mess. Sad, sad stuff.

Iam also went to columbine.

[Rascal]

Just a guess, but maybe they were doing everything they could not to give the a-hole a reason to kill the girl.

btw, Joel Myrick - hero.
http://www.davekopel.org/2A/OthWr/principal&gun.htm

I think that can be thrown out the window when they used explosives.

I remeber hearing about that.

I remember an incident in my highschool where a kid threatened to do this (prior to columbine). Several of us seniors heard about it, and knew the kid had access to a gun (like most of us he probably had a rifle and/or shotgun in his truck), and ended up tackling the kid and restraining him till the cops arrived. He got out of it because he said he was just joking, but we were always watching him.

Ended up that several years later that kid ended up killing two or three people up at the Royal Gorge area. Some people are just full of hate.

[bendog]

I didn't know the cops used explosives. I thought the guy basically set a deadline and stopped what little communication he was doing. IF so, the cops did all they could do. But, it is a question. I'd think they had at least one guy who could hit a squirille's head with a .223 or even .308. I wonder if there was anyway they could have gotten a scope on him. Especially, after they had to try and take him rather than wait him out. I wonder if they could have had a long gun expert follow up the swat guys who went in.

I really feel for principal Myrick. IF my kid went to one of the city public schools, she'd pass through metal detectors, and there's always at least one armed cop at the middle schools. She goes to a pretty open campus on a private school. Parents are supposed to sign in and get name tags, and since the school's pretty small the middle school teachers pretty much recognize the parents, and they really do lots of intervention stuff to make kids understand cliques and to respect each other. But it'd be so easy to get in there and take hostages. I really don't fear a Columbine or even Pearl thing, but there's always the chance of some crazed parent of just some a-hole like in this case.

I really doubt there's a Myrick there. There are lots of teachers who'd die to save kids, no doubt. But it's sad when you just sort of 'hope' there's some old school ex-army type who says "f" to PC stuff and does the right thing. The irony of the Myrick situation was that he did violate law by having a weapon locked in his car on school grounds. Cops gave him a pass.

[Bronx33]

I didn't know the cops used explosives. I thought the guy basically set a deadline and stopped what little communication he was doing. IF so, the cops did all they could do. But, it is a question. I'd think they had at least one guy who could hit a squirille's head with a .223 or even .308. I wonder if there was anyway they could have gotten a scope on him. Especially, after they had to try and take him rather than wait him out. I wonder if they could have had a long gun expert follow up the swat guys who went in.
I really feel for principal Myrick. IF my kid went to one of the city public schools, she'd pass through metal detectors, and there's always at least one armed cop at the middle schools. She goes to a pretty open campus on a private school. Parents are supposed to sign in and get name tags, and since the school's pretty small the middle school teachers pretty much recognize the parents, and they really do lots of intervention stuff to make kids understand cliques and to respect each other. But it'd be so easy to get in there and take hostages. I really don't fear a Columbine or even Pearl thing, but there's always the chance of some crazed parent of just some a-hole like in this case.

I really doubt there's a Myrick there. There are lots of teachers who'd die to save kids, no doubt. But it's sad when you just sort of 'hope' there's some old school ex-army type who says "f" to PC stuff and does the right thing. The irony of the Myrick situation was that he did violate law by having a weapon locked in his car on school grounds. Cops gave him a pass.


I guess where the classroom was situaited prevented a sniper shot they also said they were yelling through a door (no visual) what ever this losers plan was he completed it but i will say if the swat had not come in there might be 2 dead girls i also heard his backpack had a bunch of sex toys in it so who knows what this dude was planning to do. Fact is it's a sad day for the folks up in bailey and the state of colorado again but it could have been much worse IMO.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I went to Green Mountain...built the same year and with the exact same design and floor plan as Columbine...and my best friend graduated from Columbine...so when I saw the Columbine shootings played out on TV it was eerie. It hit close to home for sure.

School shootings are always very emotional because they disrupt and violate a place that's supposed to be safe and assumed to be outside the problems of the real world and of course they involve our kids. The media obviously covers these stories with extreme intensity, and they also sensationalize things as well. This leads a lot of people to the idea that schools are war zones where random shootings occur on a regular basis. The truth is that schools, for the most part, are among the safest places in this country. The best voice of reason on this issue is Mike Males, a senior researcher for the Justice Policy Institute. For years Males has been a lone voice in the wilderness pointing out that media coverage and the resulting hysteria over school shootings exists within a larger context where society is fond of demonizing youth as typically violent and criminal. The truth is much different. Check out some of his views here:

www.cjcj.org/pubs/shooting/shootings.html

www.alternet.org/story/10648

Males rightly points out that adults are far more violent than youth, that school shootings are extremely rare crimes and that a child is more likely to be killed by lightning than die in a school shooting. By focusing extreme attention on these rare school shootings, people frequently get freaked out and conclude that their kids are at extreme risk, when in fact they're not.

We should use common sense and strengthen practical security measures, but turning schools into armed camps where suspicion runs wild and legions of cops play hall monitor is not the answer.

[Bronx33]

DUANE MORRISON is the name of the loser they also just said he sexually assalted some of the girls.

[ColoradoBuff]

The thing I don't understand is we send our children to school to learn, not to be taken hostage, killed or possibly sexually assaulted. Where have we gone wrong and what do we need to do to fix it? Now this has happened at a "rural" school, it shows it can happen anywhere, that is what scares me. I think our children are safe in school the majority of the time, but all it takes is one messed up freak on a mission like what happened at Platte Canyon, and you can never everything is changed. And I can't say enough about what someone wrote before, hug your kids, wife, husband, etc. and tell them that you love them, cuz tomm. is never promised!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

We should use common sense and strengthen practical security measures, but turning schools into armed camps where suspicion runs wild and legions of cops play hall monitor is not the answer.
Tell that to the families of these kids who have been gunned down in our schools.

It's obvious to me that a lot more has to be done with entrance security to our public schools.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I agree Slug, but you can't keep high school kids in a corral like cattle. I don't know the answer. Keeping unauthorized people out of schools is impossible with all of the extra help they ask from parents these days. And you have service, maintenance and vendor people around all of the time.

If you saw the location of the school, you would think there isn't much trouble the kids could get into, but it was just 3-4 years ago when three boys climbed up the hill behind the school for a smoke and lit the whole mountain on fire. They had to evacuate the town and many of the surrounding areas.

[ColoradoBuff]

Tell that to the families of these kids who have been gunned down in our schools.

It's obvious to me that a lot more has to be done with entrance security to our public schools.


I agree totally. Something needs to be done for the safety of our children.

[bfoflcommish]

I agree Slug, but you can't keep high school kids in a corral like cattle. I don't know the answer. Keeping unauthorized people out of schools is impossible with all of the extra help they ask from parents these days. And you have service, maintenance and vendor people around all of the time.

If you saw the location of the school, you would think there isn't much trouble the kids could get into, but it was just 3-4 years ago when three boys climbed up the hill behind the school for a smoke and lit the whole mountain on fire. They had to evacuate the town and many of the surrounding areas.

It's not impossible at all!

My son goes to a charter school (k - 12) and there is only 1 way to get in. There is 2 sets of doors at the entrance and the office is inbetween them, and the second set of doors is locked only can be opened by a switch in the office which is behind glass. If you need to go to the school you go through the front doors to the office window, you have to show id, sign in and tell them what you need. If it is to pick up a student they just send the student to you you cannot go back there. If you need to visit a student for say lunch or a teacher, they page the teacher to come get you first.

The only have 2 people working the office so no huge number of people needed.

High school studens are free to go as they please but they need to show id at door to get in and also could have bags searched at any time.

[Florida_Bronco]

I think that can be thrown out the window when they used explosives.

The "explosives" they used were Flash/Bang grenades. They do not fragment like your traditional frag grenade, instead they burst open and emit a very bright light along with a concussive "bang" that will disorient a person (blindness, loss of hearing) for around 30 seconds depending on the size and material of the room they are tossed into. They do not, however, cause any permanet or physical injuries.

This allows the SWAT teams to breach the room and usually disarm the suspects without shots fired.

[Florida_Bronco]

I believe that they honesty thought they had no choice but to take him down then, but like I said, and you mentioned here, how in the world can he get off that many shots without a single response from the cops even if the jackass was using her as a shield. I've seen some of these guys shoot and they could put a bullet anywhere.

Hard to say without being there, but if the man was hiding behind a girl they can't go and fire shots that close to her....this isn't the movies Rascal.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

It's not impossible at all!

My son goes to a charter school (k - 12) and there is only 1 way to get in. There is 2 sets of doors at the entrance and the office is inbetween them, and the second set of doors is locked only can be opened by a switch in the office which is behind glass. If you need to go to the school you go through the front doors to the office window, you have to show id, sign in and tell them what you need. If it is to pick up a student they just send the student to you you cannot go back there. If you need to visit a student for say lunch or a teacher, they page the teacher to come get you first.

The only have 2 people working the office so no huge number of people needed.

High school studens are free to go as they please but they need to show id at door to get in and also could have bags searched at any time.


That may be true in a smaller charter school. Here is the situation at my daughter's middle school. About 500 students grades 6-8. There are six sets of doors plus another set that I beleive lead only into the mechanical/electrical system. Front door is about 40 feet from the main office, which is past the first hallway. You can easily walk in the front door and go down the first hallway without much notice. Rear door leads to the teacher's parking lot and the bus lodaing area. It would be very easy for someone to push their way in when the door is opened by a teacher or when the buses are unloading. One door is used mostly for deliveries to the kitchen and for other supplies. Again it would be easy for someone to force their way in with a delivery. The next door is used to go outside for PE, band and other outdoor activities. Again, easy to get through if someone was motivated. The remaining doors are locked to outside entrance, but since they are not obvious to foot or vehicle traffic, they could be forced open quite easily. Not quite sure how you would secure that school without guards at all entrances.

The local high school buildings have even more entrances.

[bendog]

But there have to be fire exits. And windows. I mean the option is building schools essentially like walled fort with only windows opening to an interior court yard, but even then there has to be access out at mult points for fires. And even in the one entry example, somebody wants in, they walk up and shoot whoevers at the desk. And even then, I'm not sure how there couldn't be fire exits.

[bfoflcommish]

That may be true in a smaller charter school. Here is the situation at my daughter's middle school. About 500 students grades 6-8. There are six sets of doors plus another set that I beleive lead only into the mechanical/electrical system. Front door is about 40 feet from the main office, which is past the first hallway. You can easily walk in the front door and go down the first hallway without much notice. Rear door leads to the teacher's parking lot and the bus lodaing area. It would be very easy for someone to push their way in when the door is opened by a teacher or when the buses are unloading. One door is used mostly for deliveries to the kitchen and for other supplies. Again it would be easy for someone to force their way in with a delivery. The next door is used to go outside for PE, band and other outdoor activities. Again, easy to get through if someone was motivated. The remaining doors are locked to outside entrance, but since they are not obvious to foot or vehicle traffic, they could be forced open quite easily. Not quite sure how you would secure that school without guards at all entrances.

The local high school buildings have even more entrances.

ahh so you don't know my sons school......lol

It as well more than 500 even 800 students! It is not small!

There are doors all around for pe, fire exits, what have you. But they are the huge heavy only can open from inside type doors. ALL TRAFFIC HAS TO GO THROUGH THE FRONT.

If you would have asked me 3 years ago when he was in public school if it could be possible I would have said no just like you, But now I have seen with my own eyes everyday that it can be done at a large school.

[bfoflcommish]

But there have to be fire exits. And windows. I mean the option is building schools essentially like walled fort with only windows opening to an interior court yard, but even then there has to be access out at mult points for fires. And even in the one entry example, somebody wants in, they walk up and shoot whoevers at the desk. And even then, I'm not sure how there couldn't be fire exits.


It's a glass (I would bet anything bullet proof) that it would be impossible to gain entry even if you shoot them the switch to open the door is inside that glass. Ok, you could shoot the glass out there too, but there are classes up front with windows that would see in a second what is going on, and evacuation would take place out the fire exits from there.

[Rascal]

The "explosives" they used were Flash/Bang grenades. They do not fragment like your traditional frag grenade, instead they burst open and emit a very bright light along with a concussive "bang" that will disorient a person (blindness, loss of hearing) for around 30 seconds depending on the size and material of the room they are tossed into. They do not, however, cause any permanet or physical injuries.

This allows the SWAT teams to breach the room and usually disarm the suspects without shots fired.

And they expect the criminal to know that?

Obviously shots were fired. And accurately at that.

[Rascal]

Hard to say without being there, but if the man was hiding behind a girl they can't go and fire shots that close to her....this isn't the movies Rascal.

It's already been reported that the girl was running away from the guy when he shot her in the head.

[bendog]

It's a glass (I would bet anything bullet proof) that it would be impossible to gain entry even if you shoot them the switch to open the door is inside that glass. Ok, you could shoot the glass out there too, but there are classes up front with windows that would see in a second what is going on, and evacuation would take place out the fire exits from there.

No offense, but I've never seen a fire exit I couldn't enter the wrong way, if I really, really wanted too. Yeah, we could build buildings like the one I work in with a guard at the only door, and a small footprint and mult stories, but it'd not be very nice for a school. Frankly it sucks to even be in it.:peace:

[bendog]

It's already been reported that the girl was running away from the guy when he shot her in the head.

But that doesn't "prove" the cops had an open shot at him, until after he shot her and then shot himself. I came unglued at what the cops didn't do at columbine, and took heat from it from guys on the dpo board, I think, until it came clear that they really did screw it up.

I kept a pistol in my truck for a couple of years after that. I was five minutes from my kid's elementary school.

[Bronx33]

But that doesn't "prove" the cops had an open shot at him, until after he shot her and then shot himself. I came unglued at what the cops didn't do at columbine, and took heat from it from guys on the dpo board, I think, until it came clear that they really did screw it up.

I kept a pistol in my truck for a couple of years after that. I was five minutes from my kid's elementary school.


I gather (as iam watching a live report from the sheriff) that a flash bang was used the girl started to run away from him he turned and shot her then promptly turned the gun on himself, all as swat started entering the room (i guess it happened really fast) i also gather the room was not just a square room there was a wall or partition they were behind.

[Florida_Bronco]

And they expect the criminal to know that?

Obviously shots were fired. And accurately at that.

Flash/Bangs are nothing secret.

[Northman]

It's not impossible at all!

My son goes to a charter school (k - 12) and there is only 1 way to get in. There is 2 sets of doors at the entrance and the office is inbetween them, and the second set of doors is locked only can be opened by a switch in the office which is behind glass. If you need to go to the school you go through the front doors to the office window, you have to show id, sign in and tell them what you need. If it is to pick up a student they just send the student to you you cannot go back there. If you need to visit a student for say lunch or a teacher, they page the teacher to come get you first.

The only have 2 people working the office so no huge number of people needed.

High school studens are free to go as they please but they need to show id at door to get in and also could have bags searched at any time.




Although this will help to some degree you wont be able to stop a guy with a arsenal to his disposal.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Tell that to the families of these kids who have been gunned down in our schools.

It's obvious to me that a lot more has to be done with entrance security to our public schools.
Many schools already have metal detectors, but that would not have stopped this guy. If you turned every school in America into armed camps with M-16 toting guards and surveliance equipment, and did strip searches of every student entering the building, you could not stop either Columbine or Bailey type school violence from happening. Metal detectors cannot stop it either. Nothing can protect against somebody so committed they're willing to take their own life also. But you can do all these things and damage the kids in other ways because of it.

Read what Mike Males has to say. He's an expert on this issue. The facts are, schools are far safer than most places our kids can go, and while that doesn't make it easier for anyone who lost a child to a school shooting, it should point out that there are some things we should be worried about and some things we should not be. If you're worried about your kid dying in a school shooting, you're worried about something that has roughly a 1 in a million chance of happening.

I'd be more worried about the message that so called zero tolerance school disciplinary policies send and the effect they have on kids. I mention this because it's an example of extreme measures similair to what seems to be advocated in here. Zero tolerance BTW...which is the policy of 75% of the school districts in America...is mandated by federal law or a school district is inelligible for funds from many federal programs, and not only does it not work (dozens of research studies prove it) but it's almost universally disliked by school administrators, evidence suggests it is counter productive and causes more problems than it fixes, and it was designed not for public education, but for court ordered mental health services and the criminal justice system...originally to interdict drug trafficing in marine jurisdictions. Yet zero tolerance makes adults feel good and think that public schools are trying to do something about a problem they perceive is much bigger than it really is. In other words it's another political thing that is useless but serves a small constituency while deceiving people into thinking we're doing something...surprise surprise.

The best thing we can do for our kids is to teach them that...yes, the world is not always safe and secure, but to live their lives without fear and refuse to worry about what you cannot control.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The best thing we can do for our kids is to teach them that...yes, the world is not always safe and secure, but to live their lives without fear and refuse to worry about what you cannot control.
You can generalize it any way you want to but it's obvious that SOMETHING has to be done to prevent criminals loaded down with weapons from walking in the front doors of public schools.

[Rascal]

Flash/Bangs are nothing secret.

Didn't say they weren't.

[Rascal]

You can generalize it any way you want to but it's obvious that SOMETHING has to be done to prevent criminals loaded down with weapons from walking in the front doors of public schools.

I'd like to hear some suggestions because I can't come up with any. Short of making them armed fortresses which is not an option IMO.

[bendog]

Now a report says they used explosives to blow a door, so they could get a shot at him, but even then they had no clear shot, so the SWAT team sort of charged.
During the siege, Morrison released four hostages. While still holding two girls, he cut off contact with deputies and warned that "something would happen at 4 o'clock," authorities said.

About a half-hour before the deadline, a SWAT team used explosives to blow a hole in a classroom wall in hopes of getting a clear shot at him. When they couldn't see him through the gap, they blew the door off the hinges to get inside, said Lance Clem, a spokesman for the state Department of Public Safety.

Morrison fired at the SWAT officers, shot Keyes as she tried to run away and then killed himself, authorities said. During the gun battle, police shot Morrison several times, they said.

The sheriff said he spoke to Emily's family and explained his decision to try to take Morrison by force.

"They were surprisingly supportive of everything I did," Wegener told CBS. "They are extraordinary people indicating that are going through a rough time. I hold the responsibility for Emily in my heart. I'll live with that for the rest of my life."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060929/ap_on_re_us/school_standoff

prayers for those cops, damn. No decent options there.

ps, I was thinking about the buildings early this am. My kid's school is all on one level with multiple buildings. The class buildings are all long rectangular structures, two classrooms wide and up to ten classrooms long. Each classroom shares a common wall with another, and all those except at the end, actually share 3 walls. Lots of windows. No way to keep an intruder out, but on the other hand, it'd be more difficult to round up a bunch of kids for hostages than it would be if intruders got into the 6 story "secure" building I work in.

This isn't meant as blame in any way, but people have been wondering what they could have done differently. Several kids saw this guy behaving oddly. Two boys saw him in his jeep looking "angry" or something; I forgot their exact words. And at least one, and I think two, kids saw him in the school and thought he was odd. I was thinking maybe better communication with the adults might have resulted in a challange before he got in a hostage situation. And, it just struck me that that's EXACTLY what the cops/guards told my office during our last meeting about what to do if bad guys attack our building. If you see somebody you don't know w/o an ID tag, ask them where they're going and if you can help.

[Bronx33]

Now a report says they used explosives to blow a door, so they could get a shot at him, but even then they had no clear shot, so the SWAT team sort of charged.
During the siege, Morrison released four hostages. While still holding two girls, he cut off contact with deputies and warned that "something would happen at 4 o'clock," authorities said.

About a half-hour before the deadline, a SWAT team used explosives to blow a hole in a classroom wall in hopes of getting a clear shot at him. When they couldn't see him through the gap, they blew the door off the hinges to get inside, said Lance Clem, a spokesman for the state Department of Public Safety.

Morrison fired at the SWAT officers, shot Keyes as she tried to run away and then killed himself, authorities said. During the gun battle, police shot Morrison several times, they said.

The sheriff said he spoke to Emily's family and explained his decision to try to take Morrison by force.

"They were surprisingly supportive of everything I did," Wegener told CBS. "They are extraordinary people indicating that are going through a rough time. I hold the responsibility for Emily in my heart. I'll live with that for the rest of my life."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060929/ap_on_re_us/school_standoff

prayers for those cops, damn. No decent options there.

ps, I was thinking about the buildings early this am. My kid's school is all on one level with multiple buildings. The class buildings are all long rectangular structures, two classrooms wide and up to ten classrooms long. Each classroom shares a common wall with another, and all those except at the end, actually share 3 walls. Lots of windows. No way to keep an intruder out, but on the other hand, it'd be more difficult to round up a bunch of kids for hostages than it would be if intruders got into the 6 story "secure" building I work in.

This isn't meant as blame in any way, but people have been wondering what they could have done differently. Several kids saw this guy behaving oddly. Two boys saw him in his jeep looking "angry" or something; I forgot their exact words. And at least one, and I think two, kids saw him in the school and thought he was odd. I was thinking maybe better communication with the adults might have resulted in a challange before he got in a hostage situation. And, it just struck me that that's EXACTLY what the cops/guards told my office during our last meeting about what to do if bad guys attack our building. If you see somebody you don't know w/o an ID tag, ask them where they're going and if you can help.



Watching the sheriff on tv i feel really bad for the guy having to make that type of call but based on the situation he did the right thing IMO, he was really broke up about it in the very first briefing and from what i gather he has lived up there for 30+ years and is part of the community his son was in the school when this all went down.

[Iowanian]

What an unfortunate situation. I offer my condolences to anyone close to the situation. I lived and worked in that area for a while and am familiar. drove by that school this winter.

Seems like the last place something like that would happen.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'd like to hear some suggestions because I can't come up with any. Short of making them armed fortresses which is not an option IMO.
I'm not sure what has to be done but it has to be more than is being done now. There is another school shooting today I just heard something about on the news but don't know where.

[bendog]

Cops in schools?

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

We have one, but I am sure he is the newest rookie each year. He has his hands full a good portion of the day, just managing the traffic (parking lots, bus lots, and two busy streets with drop off areas) on all fours sides of the school. Other than that his job is just to be seen as a form of deterrance. He is kind of like what they do in Vail - parking a police vehicle with a dummy at the wheel in the median of the freeway as you come to the botton of the hill. He does have a radio to dispatch, but if someone wanted to get past him, it wouldn't take much effort.

[TheDave]

I'd like to hear some suggestions because I can't come up with any. Short of making them armed fortresses which is not an option IMO.

Arm the teachers Ha!

[bendog]

Arm the teachers Ha!

I've been thinking of teaching english as my retirement career. I really wouldn't need the job so much, or I could make more money doing other stuff, but I had a vision of packing a Kel-tech by my knee brace.

[Turf Shaman]

There's not much that can be done about it. This week a mad man went to a school, some other week a mad man will go to an office. Will you have to start barricading offices? Then another week a mad man will go to a supermarket or a shopping mall. What then?

[watermock]

Real life and death isn't a Bruce Willis movie. I wish it were. This guy fully expected to off himself, he left a note. It's easy to second guess storming the situation, but they might of tried to talk him down by attrition. I didn't know he set a deadline.

BTW, Bailey could be South Park...it's in Park County. Acts of cowardice of this magnitude always baffle us. When God gave us free will he also expected that we would also have a concience I suppose. I hope there is a pitchfork up his ass right now.

[footstepsfrom#27]

You can generalize it any way you want to but it's obvious that SOMETHING has to be done to prevent criminals loaded down with weapons from walking in the front doors of public schools.
I have generalized nothing. I'm quoting the best researcher in America, an expert on this problem. That's specific information...not generalization.

What would you suggest we do to stop a criminal loaded down with weapons? You could post National Guard troops at every doorway of every school in America. Would that work? No...the killer would simply wait till the kids exited the school and drive by on the street with an uzi so he could mow them down there. Or maybe he'd show up at a high school football game, the local mall, or a burger joint.

You're trying to figure out how to solve a problem that is much smaller than you've been led to believe, and has no solution.