Jay Cutler was truly the number one QB on our board.

[GonzoLays]

If Shanahan had the chance to choose between Leinart and Cutler he still would have selected Cutler because of his mobility. In Denver, with our pathetic pass blocking offensive line, you have to have a QB that can move around in the pocket. Cutler showed the toughness in college to withstand the punishment of getting hit on every pass play and the agility to run with ball when engulfed by defenders.

If we would have drafted Leinart, it would have been Griese part 2. He would have been constantly injured because he is not the most elusive of QB's. The strength of our line is run blocking and they look very foolish when it comes to pass blocking. Leinart, being the classic pocket passer, would have been killed dropping back in our system.

The reason Jake Plummer is our QB today is because of our offensive line. We needed a QB that could move around in the pocket and avoid three defenders coming at him every time he drops back more than three steps. You will never hear Shanahan criticize Plummer because he knows the deal. What kind of production do you expect out of your QB when he is throwing under duress all the time? That is why it is essential we control the tempo of the game and get the lead early. Due to our pass blocking deficient offensive line, we have no hope in making a comeback if our QB has to drop back and throw the ball all the time. He simply won't have the time to make the passes. Plummer has to bootleg to make the deep throws. If he were to take a six step drop in the pocket, he would be running for his life.

[baja]

This ought to be a long thread....

Not!

[Taco John]

Great topic of conversation - for last May!

[freak6]

I disagree. I don't think our pass blocking is that bad. It's not great, but not awful either. Shanny is going to be retooling the offensive line according to some "experts" this offseason.

He didn't plan on putting either QB behind this line anyway, and therefore, I doubt the 2006 Oline had anything to do with what QB we drafted.

[GonzoLays]

I disagree. I don't think our pass blocking is that bad. It's not great, but not awful either. Shanny is going to be retooling the offensive line according to some "experts" this offseason.

He didn't plan on putting either QB behind this line anyway, and therefore, I doubt the 2006 Oline had anything to do with what QB we drafted.

Our pass blocking is atrocious. We are fine if Plummer makes quick throws. All he is asking for is 2.5 seconds to get rid of the ball. But if we are down 28-7, and we have to drop back and make big plays, forget about it. George Foster couldn't block a 47 year old Lawernce Taylor for 5 seconds, much less Jarred Allen or Taylor Brayton. And if they put a speed rusher on him like a Derrick Burgess or Robert Mathis, by the time Plummer yells hike they would be three steps past Foster before he even moved his feet.

Shanahan knows this and that is why he has only drafted QB's that are mobile, not your classic drop back passers. In the past three years, we have taken Bradlee Van Pelt, Matt Mauck and Jay Culter. What, are we running the option here? No, we need a guy that can mooooove because if he can't he is going to get killed.

[Kaylore]

Leinert is more athletic than he is given credit for. I also feel he is a mental wuss because of his pouty attitude after the loss to Texas and during the entire draft draft process. I've seen him play a little and he's going to be better than Griese. I think part of his emotional ordeal had to do with the knowledge that he was going to be a father and worry that it would leak before the draft. I don't thinks its a coincidence that we didn't hear the story until after he signed with Cardinals, though I doubt anything would have changed if people knew.

As for us wanting Cutler over Plummer, I happen to agree only because the arm and the mobility would allow Shanahan to use more of the playbook, whereas with Leinert, while he might be more ready to play immediately, has a lower talent ceiling. I actually could see us taking Vince Young over Leinert as well just based on the possiblities that Young's mobility would offer Shanahan.

Shanahan wanted someone to groom. Sundquist mentioned that some of the other QB's on their radar were much further down the draft. Cutler's upside and need to develop some mechanics issues seem a good fit. We may never know what the actual draft board looks like, but I'm glad we got the one we did.

[GonzoLays]

Leinert is more athletic than he is given credit for. I also feel he is a mental wuss because of his pouty attitude after the loss to Texas and during the entire draft draft process. I've seen him play a little and he's going to be better than Griese. I think part of his emotional ordeal had to do with the knowledge that he was going to be a father and worry that it would leak before the draft. I don't thinks its a coincidence that we didn't hear the story until after he signed with Cardinals, though I doubt anything would have changed if people knew.

As for us wanting Cutler over Plummer, I happen to agree only because the arm and the mobility would allow Shanahan to use more of the playbook, whereas with Leinert, while he might be more ready to play immediately, has a lower talent ceiling. I actually could see us taking Vince Young over Leinert as well just based on the possiblities that Young's mobility would offer Shanahan.

Shanahan wanted someone to groom. Sundquist mentioned that some of the other QB's on their radar were much further down the draft. Cutler's upside and need to develop some mechanics issues seem a good fit. We may never know what the actual draft board looks like, but I'm glad we got the one we did.

Not that Leinart isn't going to be a good QB, he just doesn't fit what we need here because of our offensive line. You saw how bad Brady looked when he was rushed by our defense the other night, right? Plummer has deal with that kind of pressure every time he takes a deep drop. Its not that Shanahan is limiting the playbook because of Plummer, its that Shanahan is limiting the playbook because of Foster and Lepsis.

[Killericon]

Dumervil was the top DE on our board too, right?

[footstepsfrom#27]

At this point Cutler was clearly the right choice over Leinert regardless of what system you're talking about. He's got the superior arm, played under pressure, can move, read defenses etc...had Leinert played for somebody other than USC he'd have dropped down considerably.

As an added bonus he's got a nice stable personality as well...again, something you can't count on Leinert to exhibit.

[GonzoLays]

In our last two losses, Plummer has been sacked 7 times. You average that out over a season, thats 56 sacks. You can't blame Plummer for the atrocious pass blocking play of our offensive line. He is harassed every time he takes a deep drop.

[Kaylore]

its that Shanahan is limiting the playbook because of Foster and Lepsis.
This is only partly true. Mediator's post motivated me to go back and watch every play. In doing so I saw that D-Wil was indeed getting owned every play.

I also noticed that Foster played like absolute ass. He gets blown off the ball too much. On the goalline play, Foster gets destroyed and Tatum is killed in the back field. Lepsis played pretty well considering he was singled up on Richard Seymour most of the game. You know, Seymour is a pretty good football player and he never sacked Plummer.

Nonetheless, I think the reason we're having issues has more to do with the rookies and new guys to our system than those two. Shanahan knows that Foster is an issue and it's obvious given the Tight End lined up on his side the entire night and was frequently kept in to help block.

[Pat Bowlen]

I don't understand this thread. Are there really a lot of people out there who believe otherwise?

[Rock Chalk]

Jake wins games. Jake won games in college. Cutler is sitting on the bench. Cutler lost games in college.

Jake > Jay

[baja]

Leinert is more athletic than he is given credit for. I also feel he is a mental wuss because of his pouty attitude after the loss to Texas and during the entire draft draft process. I've seen him play a little and he's going to be better than Griese. I think part of his emotional ordeal had to do with the knowledge that he was going to be a father and worry that it would leak before the draft. I don't thinks its a coincidence that we didn't hear the story until after he signed with Cardinals, though I doubt anything would have changed if people knew.

As for us wanting Cutler over Plummer, I happen to agree only because the arm and the mobility would allow Shanahan to use more of the playbook, whereas with Leinert, while he might be more ready to play immediately, has a lower talent ceiling. I actually could see us taking Vince Young over Leinert as well just based on the possiblities that Young's mobility would offer Shanahan.

Shanahan wanted someone to groom. Sundquist mentioned that some of the other QB's on their radar were much further down the draft. Cutler's upside and need to develop some mechanics issues seem a good fit. We may never know what the actual draft board looks like, but I'm glad we got the one we did.
That mobility needs to be greatly devalued, reason being it is that very mobility that will cause VY to be oft injured and an NFL flash in the pan.

QBs with a 9 wonderlic score don't last in the NFL.

[GonzoLays]

I also noticed that Foster played like absolute ass. He gets blown off the ball too much. On the goalline play, Foster gets destroyed and Tatum is killed in the back field. Lepsis played pretty well considering he was singled up on Richard Seymour most of the game. You know, Seymour is a pretty good football player and he never sacked Plummer.



Oh, no doubt, Foster is trash.

[BroncoInferno]

I see Taco lurking...countdown to his Foster apologia...

[GonzoLays]

Lepsis played pretty well considering he was singled up on Richard Seymour most of the game. You know, Seymour is a pretty good football player and he never sacked Plummer.



But how many deep drops did Plummer take in that game? Like I said earlier, if Plummer is taking short drops and gets the ball out in the three seconds, he should be fine, just like any other QB in the league but when we are down and he has to take deep drops in the pocket to make the big play, he gets killed.

Plummer is great on the bootleg not because he throws better on the run sideways across his body, its because he has time to throw the ball.

[listopencil]

Foster=

[Pat Bowlen]

I thought Matt played well, but there were a few plays when Seymour ate him alive.

[broncosteven]

Floyd Little would be a great pick for the Broncos. I hear Saban might like to build a team around a young RB & even though Weeb has shown interest the Broncos have a higher pick. I hope we get Floyd!

[GonzoLays]

I thought Matt played well, but there were a few plays when Seymour ate him alive.

Shouldn't you be starting another thread about how drunk you are and how much you love everybody? I think you add more to the board that way instead of trying to talk football.

[cmhargrove]

A. I think we have a great team.

B. Every year presents different obstacles, the 'genius" of Shanahan is that he usually does deal with them.

C. Despite the potential problems, I bet we end the season top ten in offense. I think we are finally geeting multiple threats working for us: Walker, Smith, Bell. When Sheffler finally catches on, we could be truly dangerous.

I don't think you need too much time if all four of those guys + maybe Kircus or Marshall are trying to get open. I think we will do great this year, and I was encouraged to see Plummer make some extremely accurate throws despite pressure.

[WABronco]

I thought Matt played well, but there were a few plays when Seymour ate him alive.

Lepsis got run over by Seymour on that second Javon TD.

[Taco John]

Hey Gonzo, how do you think June mini-camps went? Anything that impressed you about what happened this past June?

[broncosteven]

Hey Gonzo, how do you think June mini-camps went? Anything that impressed you about what happened this past June?

I think Rob Lytle will run well against the Raiders in the AFC Championship game. Red Should use him more in goal line situations!

[WABronco]

We have been top 10 in adjusted sack rate for the last three years. That's sacks/pass attemtps adjusted for opponent, etc.

What, is every passing play a bootleg or something? Our pass pro has been more than adequate the last two weeks.

[Pat Bowlen]

Shouldn't you be starting another thread about how drunk you are and how much you love everybody? I think you add more to the board that way instead of trying to talk football.
I'm sorry. Should I start a thread about how Clinton was our number one RB when we drafted him?

[Northman]

We should have drafted Anubis. No other back in the draft could carry two cases while slurping down two cold ones with a beer helmet. Chuck Norris has nothing on the Noobsmeister!

[azbroncfan]

If Shanahan had the chance to choose between Leinart and Cutler he still would have selected Cutler because of his mobility. In Denver, with our pathetic pass blocking offensive line, you have to have a QB that can move around in the pocket. Cutler showed the toughness in college to withstand the punishment of getting hit on every pass play and the agility to run with ball when engulfed by defenders.

If we would have drafted Leinart, it would have been Griese part 2. He would have been constantly injured because he is not the most elusive of QB's. The strength of our line is run blocking and they look very foolish when it comes to pass blocking. Leinart, being the classic pocket passer, would have been killed dropping back in our system.

The reason Jake Plummer is our QB today is because of our offensive line. We needed a QB that could move around in the pocket and avoid three defenders coming at him every time he drops back more than three steps. You will never hear Shanahan criticize Plummer because he knows the deal. What kind of production do you expect out of your QB when he is throwing under duress all the time? That is why it is essential we control the tempo of the game and get the lead early. Due to our pass blocking deficient offensive line, we have no hope in making a comeback if our QB has to drop back and throw the ball all the time. He simply won't have the time to make the passes. Plummer has to bootleg to make the deep throws. If he were to take a six step drop in the pocket, he would be running for his life.


I thought the same thing before I saw him play in NFL. He is a lot more athletic than given credit for.

[GonzoLays]

We have been top 10 in adjusted sack rate for the last three years. That's sacks/pass attemtps adjusted for opponent, etc.

What, is every passing play a bootleg or something? Our pass pro has been more than adequate the last two weeks.

That's because we take short drops. Unless your offensive line just falls flat on his ass when the ball is hiked, the QB ain't gonna get sacked. But when Plummer has to take deep drops, he is running for his life.

When is the last time you saw Jake Plummer take a deep drop and stand back there for seven seconds like Ben Rothelisberger did us in the AFC championship game? Probably never.

[freak6]

Lepsis got run over by Seymour on that second Javon TD.

Sure did. It was like he got shot from point blank range with a .50 cal.

If you haven't seen it, please go to NFL.COM and watch the highlights of the Bronco game, it is so funny. After the play, Seymour runs through Jake, and doesn't even bother to look back, while Javon scores the TD!!!

[freak6]

Gonzo, Cutler may have well been the #1 QB on our board.

But the current O-line has nothing to do with it.

Cutler or Leinart you take to play QB for 10 years. You think Shanny is planning on keeping any of these O-lineman for more than 3 more years?

Nalen has one more season in him after this one.

Lepsis maybe 4.

Foster is due to for Free Agency soon isn't he? I doubt we pick that up if he is. Hamilton is a stud, but we Kuper could be awesome also. He'll probably take Carlisle's spot next year. If Enslinger can bulk up he might just be our future C.

No way is Shanny basing his future QB on this years oline. lmao!!!

And the Pass protection to me is only weak with Foslother.

[broncosteven]

How much longer until next April? I can't wait for all the threads on next years draft class....

[GonzoLays]

Hey Gonzo, how do you think June mini-camps went? Anything that impressed you about what happened this past June?

Yea, something did catch my eye. I thought Corey Jackson was going to be next Bruce Smith after watching him use and abuse George Foster. What ever happened to that guy?

[freak6]

Yea, I something did catch my eye. I thought Corey Jackson was going to be next Bruce Smith after watching him use and abuse George Foster. What ever happened to that guy?
Everybody does that to George Foster, you shoulda known!!

[GonzoLays]

How much longer until next April? I can't wait for all the threads on next years draft class....

Damn sheep.

[GonzoLays]

Everybody does that to George Foster, you shoulda known!!

No wonder all the training camp reports were so positive about our young pass rushers -- they were playing against George Foster! Hilarious!

[broncosteven]

Damn sheep.

I had to feel what it was like to Crap all over a couple of your threads for a change.

Felt good. John Lennon was right, there is nothing like a good BM to write a song about.

[watermock]

If Shanahan had the chance to choose between Leinart and Cutler he still would have selected Cutler

Really...you read his mind now? Show me the quote. Just another assumption. I'm pleased that we took Cutler instead, but your thread title need a comment. Want to know what is even more absurd? Do you think Shanahan would of said they just missed on Leinart and was dissapointed with Cutler?

Stop making stuff up Gonzo. You didn't even post a comment from Shanahan to that effect. His comment was that "anytime you have the chance to pick up a player of that caliber, you have to take it" Paraphrased but that was the jist.

[watermock]

Yea, something did catch my eye. I thought Corey Jackson was going to be next Bruce Smith after watching him use and abuse George Foster. What ever happened to that guy?

Bruce Smith played RDE. He wouldn't of matched up against Foster dimwit.

[watermock]

That's because we take short drops. Unless your offensive line just falls flat on his ass when the ball is hiked, the QB ain't gonna get sacked. But when Plummer has to take deep drops, he is running for his life.

When is the last time you saw Jake Plummer take a deep drop and stand back there for seven seconds like Ben Rothelisberger did us in the AFC championship game? Probably never.

More ignorant BS, our line gave up very few sacks and Jake usually just takes a 5 step drop, ON PURPOSE...it's easier to keep the pocket intact because the RDE can't edge rush.

[GonzoLays]

I had to feel what it was like to Crap all over a couple of your threads for a change.

Felt good. John Lennon was right, there is nothing like a good BM to write a song about.

Damn sheep. You better hurry, the herd is posting "100 post rule" in another thread.

[Kaylore]

I'm sorry. Should I start a thread about how Clinton was our number one RB when we drafted him?

:rofl: My favorite poster.:flower:

[broncosteven]

Damn sheep. You better hurry, the herd is posting "100 post rule" in another thread.

You better hurry & change your calendar the draft ended 5 months ago.

[freak6]

No wonder all the training camp reports were so positive about our young pass rushers -- they were playing against George Foster! Hilarious!

Yeah, no joke man, I seriously was noticing that from Khan and what Socal said. Last season it was obvious too. They guy blocks like a wall, all you have to do is go around it though!!! ha aa

[KipCorrington25]

If guy's draft stock dropped because they had baby's mama's dramas there wouldn't be anyone picked some years. That's the worst excuse I've heard for him sucking.

[Jason in LA]

I'd say Shanny is done with the pocket passers. He's had success with mobile QBs, and has had problems with pocket passers. Elway, Young, and Plummer have made Shanny's system look great. Griese, Beuerlein (twice), and Jay Schroeder, all pocket passers, all sucked under Shanny.

I'm not shocked that BVP was being groomed for the future before Cutler. BVP is another mobile QB.

The Broncos O line isn't very good at pass blocking. When they have a mobile QB they can move the pocket, and have the QB roll out, so it works.

It's easier to bring in a mobile QB than to bring in a new O line, and change the entire offense. The O is based on the running game, so it's smart to have a mobile QB so the entire system doesn't have to change.

[baja]

Freak is your avatar what is meant by "A few good men" ?

[freak6]

Freak is your avatar what is meant by "A few good men" ?ugh...this sucks so bad. I'm not phobic, but ugh!!

I am not allowed to comment.

good one though baja, that's the best crack I've gotten yet!!! fkr. Go have a daikari or something!!! lol