Jimmy wants Jay

[orangenblue]

Fox "NFL Sunday" analyst Jimmy Johnson made it clear who he likes as the Denver quarterback, and it's not Jake Plummer.

"I don't like Jake," Johnson said on the air Sunday. "He had a good year last year, but that was an exception for him. I think Mike Shanahan's offense can protect young Jay Cutler. I like Cutler. I'd play him now."


I think Cutler can make this team better. We need a guy with an arm.

[phibacka31]

i agree with johnson

[Elway 4 Life]

I'm not ready to cut Jay loose yet but I did have a dream about Javon running pasy everyone 60 yards down the field and jake throwin the ball 15 yards short for an INT. Jay woulda hit him in stride.

I think we let jake take us to the pats and see how it goes. if he doesnt play any better then we take the bye and get Jay ready for stardome.

[meangene]

We are already limiting the playbook to protect Jake as much as we would to protect a rookie anyway. Sad.

[Orange_Beard]

Pretty easy for Jimmy to say.

[Smiling Assassin27]

if we put cutler in, we're giving up on the season, IMO. jake earned the spot in camp and has a pro-bowl caliber year behind him. the only way cutler should see time is in a blowout or in case of injury to plummer. why does everyone trust cutler, who hasn't played a single down with live bullets? use your heads, not your hearts, people.

[55CrushEm]

We are already limiting the playbook to protect Jake as much as we would to protect a rookie anyway. Sad.

BINGO ! But the Plummer nut-swingers don't see it.....

[bronco militia]

Overheard walking out of Invesco yesterday:

Chiefs fan: "You're just lucky we played our second string QB."

Broncos Fan: "You're just lucky we didn't play ours."

alfred91

[bpc]

Well i do think players get better and learn being on the field. That being said, this was his 2nd professional game! Plus, there is a reason for holding him off... do you really want to throw him to the wolves against NE and Baltimore? Shanahan knows what he is doing. To replace now would be conceding those games in theory because Shanahan will try and protect Cutler against them just like he is doing with Plummer. I think NE could goad Cutler into a lot of TO's by messing up the timing of his WR's. I think that Baltimore would be out to hurt him. I think we get him coached up, make it through NE, the Bye, and Baltimore and we go from there. Hopefully we are 2-2 at that time.

[Spider]

BINGO ! But the Plummer nut-swingers don't see it.....

nut swingers ? Thats Mr Nut Swinger to you ............

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Overheard walking out of Invesco yesterday:

Chiefs fan: "You're just lucky we played our second string QB."

Broncos Fan: "You're just lucky we didn't play ours."

alfred91
LOL

[Barry Ramey]

Yeah, they should dump Plummer. The fans are booing him after every incompletion and that looks the case from now on. They did the same to Griese and they even booed Elway and wanted Kubiak as the QB, so it won't be long before they do it to Cutler if he can't win a Super Bowl in a couple years as a starter. Nice trend going on with many Bronco fans.

[riiiiick]

jj has never liked plummer, since he took a lowly cardinal team into the big D and whooped his beloved and heavily favored boys in the playoffs

[watermock]

We are already limiting the playbook to protect Jake as much as we would to protect a rookie anyway. Sad.

Like when Bill Murray trotted his scamps out to the parade on graduation day in Stripes, "THAT'S THE FACT, JACK" Troop repeats. Oh jigga ligga Oh jigga ligga...

If Jake is under a leash and locking on to Rod then laying him out to dry with pathetic throws, the WTF is the difference to not make the future now? Jake seems to be pulling the whole team down. I believe he has lost the team.

Give me the raw, uncut diamond in the rough over some imitation Cubic Zirconia. I started out this season saying it was Jakes team to lose. If he lays a 4th turd next Sunday night, I say we take the Bye week to regroup and put in Rocket Man for better or worse. That would be the 5th week.

[55CrushEm]

nut swingers ? Thats Mr Nut Swinger to you ............

LOL.......you're allright, Spider.....

[pdvd23]

Shanny has no faith in Jake. This weekend was the most dumbed down play calling i have ever seen. We won't win many games if running on third and 6 is the only option.

[Paladin]

We have analyzed Plummer to death hereon, even to the point, I think, of suggesting that his jock is too tight and that's why the passes are too short. Elsewhere, it was mentioned that there is a point in time when one's skills begin to erode. That point is incideous, invidious and happens with a slow leak of skills. Jake may be at that point where the arm just doesn't have whatever he had before, and Jay is much stronger by comparsion.

The "Old Pro" uses guile as much as power to get to his goals, but that means the coaches have to really adjust their plans to accomodate him. That is not Shanahan's game plan. While I would not like to see an ugly scene, it would not surprise me if Jay did get a start of two before long, with Jake having some "arm problems" s the reason for making it so......

[Spider]

LOL.......you're allright, Spider.....

;D I see both sides on this , I realy wish I would get a spine on this choose a side and insult half the people on this board ..........Problem is I like both QB's ......torn between 2 quarter backs feelin like a fool ....... I just knew there was a country song in this ;D

[Bronx33]

Makes ya wonder why jimmy isn't coaching anymore.

[Smiling Assassin27]

mock, how the hell would you know if jake has lost the team or not? this is a silly, uninformed statement. athletes aren't little girls--they fight in the trenches and don't cut and run for 2 subpar games that they ALL contributed to.

[Barry Ramey]

Actually I don't mind if they run on 3rd downs from time to time. They haven't done much of that and it helps to not be so predictable. It beats what Shanahan has called for so many years, a 3 step drop and a slant pass and DE's knocking the ball down since have only seen that hundreds of times.

[watermock]

Yeah, they should dump Plummer. The fans are booing him after every incompletion and that looks the case from now on. They did the same to Griese and they even booed Elway and wanted Kubiak as the QB, so it won't be long before they do it to Cutler if he can't win a Super Bowl in a couple years as a starter. Nice trend going on with many Bronco fans.

I didn't hear alot of that at all. I heard alot of frustration with 6 points in 4 quarters even tho we didn't turn the ball over but once (guess who), and the D stood up. I was tired after watching the Hornhead's marathon win, but all I really sensed was frustration. I wasn't at the game tho. I'll ask Meck77 what his impression was. If anyone would have a pulse it would be him.

[bpc]

No WAY Jake starts before Baltimore. Not in a million years. Shanahan knows better. That team mentally owns us. Putting him in there would risk injury to mind or body. They are rolling right now. I would rather watch us get beat down by 40 pts with Jake at the helm then see Jay going into that mess. Like bringing a butter knife to a gun fight right now with the way our weapons are performing vs there's.

[Broncos4tw]

We have analyzed Plummer to death hereon, even to the point, I think, of suggesting that his jock is too tight and that's why the passes are too short. Elsewhere, it was mentioned that there is a point in time when one's skills begin to erode. That point is incideous, invidious and happens with a slow leak of skills. Jake may be at that point where the arm just doesn't have whatever he had before, and Jay is much stronger by comparsion.

The "Old Pro" uses guile as much as power to get to his goals, but that means the coaches have to really adjust their plans to accomodate him. That is not Shanahan's game plan. While I would not like to see an ugly scene, it would not surprise me if Jay did get a start of two before long, with Jake having some "arm problems" s the reason for making it so......

I'm not sure why, but it seems that when Jake is throwing from the pocket, he has tunnel vision. He locks onto one receiver, and he doesn't really care if he is open, he throws to him. He threw into double and triple coverage at times. It's as if the play called for throwing to a primary receiver, and to Jake, that was the only guy out on the field.

That's why there are so many tips, and why players get to the receiver from across the field of play. Jake gets locked onto one guy, and they are reading this. They are jumping up and easily swatting away balls at the line, or running across the field to be that extra defender. What's with Jake and his one receiver tunnel-vision?

And the few times he did dump it to an outlet receiver, it's been bad. I've never seen anyone toss so many horrible screens.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

What Jimmy really wants is ratings. Controversy = ratings

[pdvd23]

Jake has never looked off a reciever in his life. He knows where it's going in the huddle.

[JCMElway]

Well, if we do make a switch at QB, after the NE is the time to do it. We have a bye and a game at home. Two weeks to prepare for a very tough defense (although it does look like they played Pop Warner teams the first two weeks.)

I have been adamant against Cutler coming in this whole time. Now, I'm not so sure.

[watermock]

mock, how the hell would you know if jake has lost the team or not? this is a silly, uninformed statement. athletes aren't little girls--they fight in the trenches and don't cut and run for 2 subpar games that they ALL contributed to.

I never said he had lost the team, I said he MAY of lost the team. They certainly played uninspired on offense. Just because overpaid NFL players aren't little girls doesn't mean that they don't often act like it, and then you introduce subliminal thought like "maybe we need Jay" into the physcological mix and there you have it. I'm entitled to that opinion by the offensive effort in the past two games. Don't tell me KC has a dominant D. It's much improved, but not dominant, especially when we are at home in perfect weather.

edit: There was a stiff breeze.

[bloodsunday]

What Jimmy really wants is ratings. Controversy = ratings

So what was Shannon's excuse when saying the best guy should play -- and there by encenuating that its not Jake? What about Ron Wolf when he openly questioned the signing in '03? Did he want better ratings. What about Phil Simms, was he looking for ratings when defending Plummer? Or was Herm Edwards asking for ratings when he admitted they knew that was the key to stopping our offense?

It's not all about ratings, its all about their opinion as analysts and people that have taken part in the game at an extremely high-level. Jake is an unpopular QB, period. He is talented yes, but continues to make poor decisions and boneheaded plays after double-digit seasons. How many teams in the NFL do you think we would be honestly "pumped" up to have Jake as their QB? Sure there a few that would look at him as an upgrade or a stop-gap measure, but I don't think any that would look at him as the franchise-type-QB.

[bloodsunday]

Jake has never looked off a reciever in his life. He knows where it's going in the huddle.

Honestly it helped when Rod went down because Jake had to look somewhere else. If we want to make sure Rod gets into the hall, we should all hope Jake is our starting QB for another 3 years.

[fontaine]

No thanks.

I hate the way Plummer has started off (same as he ended last year) this season, but I still believe he has it in him to bounce back and improve to a level that is satisfactory for this offense.

I have not such belief in Cutler and anyone who thinks Cutler can come in and play better are working off assumptions rather than fact.

Plummer did show that he finally settled down a bit towards the end of the game when we did manage to put up some points and win it especially when he trusted Walker with that throw.

Give it time. Our offense can come around. We just need to give it a chance before we throw in an unkown into the equation like Cutler.

If we lose the next two and Plummer plays like a dog then maybe we can talk about this more seriously, but right now a veteran arm give us the best chance to win.

[Spider]

So what was Shannon's excuse when saying the best guy should play -- .

Shannon is trying out rate Johnson Ratings ...........Dammit do I have to think of everything around here ?

[bloodsunday]

Shannon is trying out rate Johnson Ratings ...........Dammit do I have to think of everything around here ?

And what about the rest of my quote! Nice job taking only the piece that makes your point.

[Spider]

And what about the rest of my quote! Nice job taking only the piece that makes your point.

as if I am going to read the entire damn thing when I am being sarcastic ......relax princess

[bloodsunday]

If we lose the next two and Plummer plays like a dog then maybe we can talk about this more seriously, but right now a veteran arm give us the best chance to win.

This is a reasonable assessment. I personally am not advocating that Cutler play tomorrow. But I am also not advocating that he must sit until next year either. Patience is the right word. I don't look at it in absolute terms like, "two more loses". Shanny should give Jake enough time until he feels that he cannot wait any longer. I don't know when that is, and frankly I am not paid $5 m a year to do it. That Oakland game sure would be a nice way to ease Jay in though ;)

One thing that does have me worried though is what Kiszla said, which I happen to agree with. Jake does seem a little uninspired right now and a little like a guy that is looking over his shoulder. We have seen how he handles pressure -- on and off the field -- and its not pretty. He tends to implode and make poor decisions. It's not Shanny's style to coddle him either, so this thing could come to a head.

[BroncoFiend]

And what about the rest of my quote! Nice job taking only the piece that makes your point.

That was sarcasm if I've ever heard it bro...

[-Slap-]

Well i do think players get better and learn being on the field. That being said, this was his 2nd professional game! Plus, there is a reason for holding him off... do you really want to throw him to the wolves against NE and Baltimore? Shanahan knows what he is doing. To replace now would be conceding those games in theory because Shanahan will try and protect Cutler against them just like he is doing with Plummer. I think NE could goad Cutler into a lot of TO's by messing up the timing of his WR's. I think that Baltimore would be out to hurt him. I think we get him coached up, make it through NE, the Bye, and Baltimore and we go from there. Hopefully we are 2-2 at that time.

"Hopefully we are 3-1 at that time."

[-Slap-]

Yeah, they should dump Plummer. The fans are booing him after every incompletion and that looks the case from now on. They did the same to Griese and they even booed Elway and wanted Kubiak as the QB, so it won't be long before they do it to Cutler if he can't win a Super Bowl in a couple years as a starter. Nice trend going on with many Bronco fans.

Yeah, who can forget that legion of fans who were calling for Kubiak?

Hilarious!

I love when people try and bolster their argument with out and out fantasy and distortion.

[freak6]

I think with Cutler he might limit the playbook somewhat, but it would also open up certain plays. So instead of everything coming off bootlegs, we can throw out some garbage plays, and put in pass plays featuring deeper routes that Cutler can connect on.

It's a two way street. Shanny wouldn't put Cutler in and have him not throw the ball around, that arm is the only reason to put him in. It might make for a simpler gameplan, but more dangerous plays that might actually get us a passing TD this season.

<-----------------

Not to mention, the current crop of plays have yeilded a 56 rating from Jake.

[Atlas]

jj has never liked plummer, since he took a lowly cardinal team into the big D and whooped his beloved and heavily favored boys in the playoffs

Chan Gailey was the coach when plummer did that. I hardly think Johnson was upset about it.

[pdvd23]

[QUOTE=bloodsunday;1277414]Honestly it helped when Rod went down because Jake had to look somewhere else. If we want to make sure Rod gets into the hall, we should all hope Jake is our starting QB for another 3 years.[/QUOTE


Rod won't play three more years if Plummer is the starter. 34 year old guys don't last long when Safties and Lbs are T-ing of on them. Ask Griese.

[Kaylore]

Shanny has no faith in Jake. This weekend was the most dumbed down play calling i have ever seen. We won't win many games if running on third and 6 is the only option.

I think that's a bit severe, but there is a kernal of truth to it. Shanahan doesn't trust Jake on third down. He also is already watering down the play calling for Jake.

Jimmy Johnson was high on Cutler in October of last year. It doesn't surprise me that he'd want Jay to start over Plummer.

I remember someone mentioning that Jay said he wasn't sure he executed the Rams game plan. Well Plummer said "I think we tried to do too much there." And then Shanahan said on the Chiefs game "We tried to pull a few things back this time." It's clear to me we're already watering down the game plan, so wy not put a guy in who scares defenses enough to keep the deep ball honest? That would open things up for the run. Not to mention he can get Scheffler the ball and not throw behind him all the time.

I'm still upset with Plummer. He missed some open passes and as Humalau pointed out, locks onto Rod Smith so much that it took removing him from the game to get Plummer back into his progressions.

[ScottXray]

Well i do think players get better and learn being on the field. That being said, this was his 2nd professional game! Plus, there is a reason for holding him off... do you really want to throw him to the wolves against NE and Baltimore? Shanahan knows what he is doing. To replace now would be conceding those games in theory because Shanahan will try and protect Cutler against them just like he is doing with Plummer. I think NE could goad Cutler into a lot of TO's by messing up the timing of his WR's. I think that Baltimore would be out to hurt him. I think we get him coached up, make it through NE, the Bye, and Baltimore and we go from there. Hopefully we are 2-2 at that time.
If we are 2-2 after Baltimore than Cutler will still be on the bench and Jake will be starting.

:curtsey:

[Beantown Bronco]

Yeah, who can forget that legion of fans who were calling for Kubiak?

Hilarious!

I love when people try and bolster their argument with out and out fantasy and distortion.


Stranger things have happened.....ask Pats fans around here about Michael Bishop. Many wanted him out there after some good outings (against scrub 3rd stringers) during the preseason.

[Turf Shaman]

There may be a point this season where it becomes appropriate to start Jay, but let's hope we don't see it. The Broncos could easily wind up 1-3 after the next two games. They'll have two games they SHOULD win after that, but then two tough games again. If the Broncos are 3-5 or worse at the midway point and part of the problem is that Plummer's play hasn't significantly improved, it would be time to pull the covers off the Cutler era. But again, let's hope we don't see that.

[bendog]

What Jimmy really wants is ratings. Controversy = ratings

I think he wants his old hair back too.

[Rohirrim]

I don't think anybody is making any unfounded "assumptions" about Jay's skill level or what he could bring to the game. It's already obvious to even a casual observer that Jay's arm is stronger, he is a more accurate thrower and he runs faster, than Jake. These are things that are undeniable. The question is, what will he do when the lights come on, the game is real, and there's a 1st string NFL defense looking at him from the other side of the LOS? Judging by his poise so far, it's a good gamble that he'll pull it off. He was under constant pressure at Vanderbilt. That's all it is; A gamble.

Once Shanahan does try Jay, there is a full fledged QB controversy in Denver. Also, there's the confidence level of both QBs. If Jay gets tossed in too early and blows it, what does that do to his confidence? And by pulling Jake and putting in Jay, even for a few series, what happens to Jake's confidence? It can get messy. So the question is, at what point does the risk/reward factor turn away from Jake and tip toward Jay?

[Tredici]

Yeah, who can forget that legion of fans who were calling for Kubiak?

Hilarious!

I love when people try and bolster their argument with out and out fantasy and distortion.


If I recall that was started by one idiotic radio personality here who decided Kubiak was good enough so if Denver traded John Elway for Eric Dickerson then it would be nothing but Championship rings.

I'm just wondering. What are the fans supposed to do when a QB throws his 9th interception in his past three games? Clap politely and hope to encourage him? Sit in their high priced seats in silence? Get real. The boos turn to cheers on the next connection. Big deal.

[Rohirrim]

Rotten fans. I remember the cries for Tommy Maddox. ;D

[wolf754life]

they put 9 in the box, safeties jam tight ends, db's jam wr's, the rest blitz, its zero coverage, all man up, nobody is deep. They have ZERO respect for the passing game.
Stephen Alexander doesn't really scare anyone!

Its the steelers blue print, stop the run, make the qb make short accurate passes,time and time again, they will let us nickel and dime them down the field. They stop the run, keep plummer in the pocket. Here in lies the rub, jake will inevitably throw one right to the defense, "see ty hill in week 1, or into double like yesterday"

Jake can't beat it, he knows it, they know it, and now shanny knows it.

Cutler will stand in the pocket and pick them apart, make them pay, this will be the only way.

Jake is as good as gone next year, the cutler era is rising like the sun off in the eastern horizon, slowly but surely #6 will shine down on bronco country, enveloping it in a warm and comfy state of satisfaction.

This organizatin will never win any big games with this mentally disabled qb running the ship. I appreciate his effort and dedication, but it is time to call it quits. Whats the point of having a great offensive coach if he is handicapped by the qb?

Hay hay, ho ho, jake plummer has got to go!

Hay hay, ho ho.............................rise bronco nation, rise!!!

[Taco John]

Overheard walking out of Invesco yesterday:

Chiefs fan: "You're just lucky we played our second string QB."

Broncos Fan: "You're just lucky we didn't play ours."

alfred91




That's the quote of the season so far... :notworthy

[Taco John]

if we put cutler in, we're giving up on the season, IMO. jake earned the spot in camp and has a pro-bowl caliber year behind him. the only way cutler should see time is in a blowout or in case of injury to plummer. why does everyone trust cutler, who hasn't played a single down with live bullets? use your heads, not your hearts, people.


Why should we trust Plummer, who can't even run the full offense?

[DB-Freak]

I think that's a bit severe, but there is a kernal of truth to it. Shanahan doesn't trust Jake on third down. He also is already watering down the play calling for Jake.

Jimmy Johnson was high on Cutler in October of last year. It doesn't surprise me that he'd want Jay to start over Plummer.

I remember someone mentioning that Jay said he wasn't sure he executed the Rams game plan. Well Plummer said "I think we tried to do too much there." And then Shanahan said on the Chiefs game "We tried to pull a few things back this time." It's clear to me we're already watering down the game plan, so wy not put a guy in who scares defenses enough to keep the deep ball honest? That would open things up for the run. Not to mention he can get Scheffler the ball and not throw behind him all the time.

I'm still upset with Plummer. He missed some open passes and as Humalau pointed out, locks onto Rod Smith so much that it took removing him from the game to get Plummer back into his progressions.

Glad to see you in the skeptical side now Kaylore.

Your stance on Plummer has changed dramatically since training camp.

[Spider]

untill we get a TE that dominates the Hashmarks , putting Cutler in makes no difference ........ think we have that T.E. in Scheff ......

[Taco John]

We have analyzed Plummer to death hereon, even to the point, I think, of suggesting that his jock is too tight and that's why the passes are too short. Elsewhere, it was mentioned that there is a point in time when one's skills begin to erode. That point is incideous, invidious and happens with a slow leak of skills. Jake may be at that point where the arm just doesn't have whatever he had before, and Jay is much stronger by comparsion.

The "Old Pro" uses guile as much as power to get to his goals, but that means the coaches have to really adjust their plans to accomodate him. That is not Shanahan's game plan. While I would not like to see an ugly scene, it would not surprise me if Jay did get a start of two before long, with Jake having some "arm problems" s the reason for making it so......



This is a great point... Reminds me of what made Rich Gannon such a stellar starter for the Raiders for so long. Rich didn't have the best arm. In fact, his arm was no deeper than Griese's at the time. But Gannon had guile and the ability to pick apart a defense with short, accurate throws that enabled YAC.

[riiiiick]

Chan Gailey was the coach when plummer did that. I hardly think Johnson was upset about it.

i know that. he always picks the cowboys, he's still a homer for them and he was 9 years ago.

[Kaylore]

Glad to see you in the skeptical side now Kaylore.

Your stance on Plummer has changed dramatically since training camp.

It started with the Texan game. I really believed that the crux of Plummer's woes was a lack offensive talent. Four years in the same offensive system, ten years in the league, a bunch of new weapons, a good line, coming off of a poor performance in the AFC Championship game and a new rookie pushing him. All these things should translate to taking any QB taking their game to the next level.

What we got was total suck. Pure, ugly suckiness. No accuracy downfield, bad reads, staring down Rod Smith and 5 turnvovers with no touchdowns. That he had so much going for him and went 180 degrees the opposite way has infuriated me. Plummer played better from year to year here and now he's worse!

There's so much wrong with the whole situation. We're already playing the game dumbed down for the Veteran. We might as well do the same thing for the Rookie with better mechanics, accuracy and a long ball that scares people.

I'm getting really tired of seeing Plummer walk to the sideline with his head bowed like "whatever dude" when he messes up. I'm getting sick of seeing Plummer argue with his coaches after he makes a mistake rather than just be humble and move on about it. And I'm really tired of the lame-ass excuses for every bad play: "Well the defensive back made a great play...well I think Rod was held on that play...you know I think the receiver didn't come down with it." Way to step up Jake! Way to respond when we gave you the tools to do so. Bottome line: 150 TD's to 151 Interceptions! :cuss: :gripe: ~Popps~

[DB-Freak]

It started with the Texan game. I really believed that the crux of Plummer's woes was a lack offensive talent. Four years in the same offensive system, ten years in the league, a bunch of new weapons, a good line, coming off of a poor performance in the AFC Championship game and a new rookie pushing him. All these things should translate to taking any QB taking their game to the next level.

What we got was total suck. Pure, ugly suckiness. No accuracy downfield, bad reads, staring down Rod Smith and 5 turnvovers with no touchdowns. That he had so much going for him and went 180 degrees the opposite way has infuriated me. Plummer played better from year to year here and now he's worse!

There's so much wrong with the whole situation. We're already playing the game dumbed down for the Veteran. We might as well do the same thing for the Rookie with better mechanics, accuracy and a long ball that scares people.

I'm getting really tired of seeing Plummer walk to the sideline with his head bowed like "whatever dude" when he messes up. I'm getting sick of seeing Plummer argue with his coaches after he makes a mistake rather than just be humble and move on about it. And I'm really tired of the lame-ass excuses for every bad play: "Well the defensive back made a great play...well I think Rod was held on that play...you know I think the receiver didn't come down with it." Way to step up Jake! Way to respond when we gave you the tools to do so. Bottome line: 150 TD's to 151 Interceptions! :cuss: :gripe: ~Popps~
well I think the career TD/INT ratio is taken out of context, but I agree with you.

The way he plays just makes you question if it really is more of jake or the system around him that's getting him these stats.

[BroncoInferno]

It started with the Texan game. I really believed that the crux of Plummer's woes was a lack offensive talent. Four years in the same offensive system, ten years in the league, a bunch of new weapons, a good line, coming off of a poor performance in the AFC Championship game and a new rookie pushing him. All these things should translate to taking any QB taking their game to the next level.

What we got was total suck. Pure, ugly suckiness. No accuracy downfield, bad reads, staring down Rod Smith and 5 turnvovers with no touchdowns. That he had so much going for him and went 180 degrees the opposite way has infuriated me. Plummer played better from year to year here and now he's worse!

There's so much wrong with the whole situation. We're already playing the game dumbed down for the Veteran. We might as well do the same thing for the Rookie with better mechanics, accuracy and a long ball that scares people.

I'm getting really tired of seeing Plummer walk to the sideline with his head bowed like "whatever dude" when he messes up. I'm getting sick of seeing Plummer argue with his coaches after he makes a mistake rather than just be humble and move on about it. And I'm really tired of the lame-ass excuses for every bad play: "Well the defensive back made a great play...well I think Rod was held on that play...you know I think the receiver didn't come down with it." Way to step up Jake! Way to respond when we gave you the tools to do so. Bottome line: 150 TD's to 151 Interceptions! :cuss: :gripe: ~Popps~

Slow starts are nothing new for Jake. Look back to last season. Sucked in the opener, barely passable in the second game, then he started to pull it together. No excuses for that, he should do better, but it is a pattern and pattern that, at least as a Bronco, tends to right itself after the first couple of games. This week will be a big test. I'm not looking for 300 yards 4TDs on the road against that D, but he needs to be at least an efficient 15-23 180 yds 1 TD 0 INTs, something along those lines. Well see how he responds. To be fair, his offensive teammates have looked out of whack also; it isn't just him.

[DB-Freak]

Slow starts are nothing new for Jake. Look back to last season. Sucked in the opener, barely passable in the second game, then he started to pull it together. No excuses for that, he should do better, but it is a pattern and pattern that, at least as a Bronco, tends to right itself after the first couple of games. This week will be a big test. I'm not looking for 300 yards 4TDs on the road against that D, but he needs to be at least an efficient 15-23 180 yds 1 TD 0 INTs, something along those lines. Well see how he responds. To be fair, his offensive teammates have looked out of whack also; it isn't just him.
To be honest, none of these guys are surefire stars or at least anymore aside from Lepsis.

A lot of uncertainty looming around these guys.

[BroncoInferno]

To be honest, none of these guys are surefire stars or at least anymore aside from Lepsis.

A lot of uncertainty looming around these guys.

Yeah, that's why I'm glad we invested in offense during the offseason. Not just with Jay, but drafting Scheffler and Marshall and trading for Walker (our offensive MVP yesterday). You gotta give the rooks a little time, though. They don't normally come flying out of the gate like gang busters. As they start to progress, so will the offense.

[defenseman]

Does it really matter what Johnson says? And you are correct, he's in it for ratings. If it is headed to a blowout in NE, and it may be quite readily the way the bronco offense is NOT performing, I'm guessing Shanahan gives up the ghost and in Cutler will go.....dman

[Atlas]

Does it really matter what Johnson says? And you are correct, he's in it for ratings. If it is headed to a blowout in NE, and it may be quite readily the way the bronco offense is NOT performing, I'm guessing Shanahan gives up the ghost and in Cutler will go.....dman

There is no way Shanny will start Cutler against that Ravens Defense.

If he wants to do it he'll wait until the bye week.

[bigfan]

i don't know about this year yet, but i say we trade plummer to the Texans next year for Reggie Bush

[bloodsunday]

To be honest, none of these guys are surefire stars or at least anymore aside from Lepsis.

A lot of uncertainty looming around these guys.

Aaah, but that's beside the point. They play as a unit, a well oil-machine of a team. That's what makes it work. That's what makes Jake's play so curious. I am sure everyone on that offense could do a better job, but it will always start with the QB.

[bendog]

i don't know about this year yet, but i say we trade plummer to the Texans next year for Reggie Bush

Kubes would take that trade.

[bloodsunday]

There is no way Shanny will start Cutler against that Ravens Defense.

If he wants to do it he'll wait until the bye week.

That comes before the Ravens, no? I guess playing Oakland is like a bye.

[defenseman]

There is no way Shanny will start Cutler against that Ravens Defense.

If he wants to do it he'll wait until the bye week.

1-2 going into the break without a sound stomping the Pats may put on us could be the formula that gets Cutler behind Center. Wouldn't surprise me at all. Good observation. Yeah, he'd give him two weeks to work up. Makes sense...dman

[Nemesis]

To bad Jake doesn't have a dog to trip over and be out for a few weeks...This would give Shanny the chance to see how Jay would do without the team turning on him.

[watermock]

http://bluekitchen.net/network_still.jpg

"Now everyone get on your rooftops and shout from the top of your lungs..."

"We're mad as hell and not going to take it anymore!" (Network)

[watermock]

To bad Jake doesn't have a dog to trip over and be out for a few weeks...This would give Shanny the chance to see how Jay would do without the team turning on him.

Maybe we can send Lepsis after Jake when he's trying to make a tackle after an INT like he did to TD.

[Nemesis]

I really think that Shanny would of already put Jay in but he is afraid that would split the team like it did with Brian and Bubby.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I already reported on this yesterday, but more to the point; whether you agree with Johnson or not, his opinion just removed the "idiot" label from this discussion that has been handed out for anyone not convinced Jay can't do what Jake's doing and at least survive while doing it this year. There aren't to many coaches you can say know more about the game than Johnson, like him or not, which I really don't.

The problem with Jake is that no matter how well he plays, and no matter whether he turns the ball over or not, he's going to be limited by his physical abilities to the point where he's not going to ever run this entire offense. It simply isn't going to hapen, and I don't see how we can talk about winning a title if we can't even use all our playbook. If anything, since last year the leash has gotten shorter on him than it was, and I'm not convinced his problems so far aren't because he's spooked over Cutler being here. That probably tells you what you need to know about whether he's the guy who can get it done or not. At the end of the day, even if Jake plays his game perfectly, it will only mean he's a great caretaker QB not a guy we can really count on to make things happen. Maybe if we were so stocked everywhere else we could afford that I'd be more inclined to think we can win it all with him, but we're not.

[bigfan]

I don’t think the veterans on the team would be ready to change to Jay yet. They expect to have a chance to play in the superbowl, and they just went through camp expecting Jake to take them there.

[defenseman]

I don’t think the veterans on the team would be ready to change to Jay yet. They expect to have a chance to play in the superbowl, and they just went through camp expecting Jake to take them there.

That may be, however, right now jake is NOT going to punch any "veterans" ticket to the superbowl. I'd start looking for another train if jake's derails again, with JC at the throttle. Right now, jakes is moving real slow on a rough track...dman

[BroncoMan4ever]

Well i do think players get better and learn being on the field. That being said, this was his 2nd professional game! Plus, there is a reason for holding him off... do you really want to throw him to the wolves against NE and Baltimore? Shanahan knows what he is doing. To replace now would be conceding those games in theory because Shanahan will try and protect Cutler against them just like he is doing with Plummer. I think NE could goad Cutler into a lot of TO's by messing up the timing of his WR's. I think that Baltimore would be out to hurt him. I think we get him coached up, make it through NE, the Bye, and Baltimore and we go from there. Hopefully we are 2-2 at that time.

Good idea, however, i think Denver's offense comes alive against New England. Jake will come out of his slump and the offense will get back to there old ways and kick a$$.
Also, the team will be 3-1 after the Baltimore game.

[BroncoSoja]

if we put cutler in, we're giving up on the season, IMO. jake earned the spot in camp and has a pro-bowl caliber year behind him. the only way cutler should see time is in a blowout or in case of injury to plummer. why does everyone trust cutler, who hasn't played a single down with live bullets? use your heads, not your hearts, people.

Why should we trust Plummer who is playing like a rookie (4INT's 0 TD's) in 2 games. We are freaking running the ball on 3rd and long FFS...All because Plummer cant get it done..This dude is playing like a rookie, and if your going to play like one why not put on in there. Denver is playing this dude what 6 million dollars this year for this crap? Hell pay me only 250k a year and I can go out there and hand the ball off, toss 40 yard ducks up, Toss 4 picks and 0 INT's, and generally look confused out there and get booedd...

I think you need to take your own advice.

[BroncoSoja]

Good idea, however, i think Denver's offense comes alive against New England. Jake will come out of his slump and the offense will get back to there old ways and kick a$$.
Also, the team will be 3-1 after the Baltimore game.

Your nuts

How about alittle bet your account agianst mine on the New England game?

[No1BroncoFan]

Dammit do I have to think of everything around here ?
God, I hope not. That would have the fire dept. at your place in no time. All that wood smoke, you know? ;D

Ben

[BroncoMatt]

Jake has played like crap, no question but at this point we are still 1-1 in the standings. We still have just as good a shot as anybody. Pulling Jake is reactionary and premature.

[REB]

I would be fine with Jay going in after the Baltimore game if we were to lose the next 2 and it was obviously because of Jake. Shanny's definately sticking with Jake for now and I don't think he would put young Jay in there againast that Ravens D. jmho

1-2-3 :Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I would be fine with Jay going in after the Baltimore game if we were to lose the next 2 and it was obviously because of Jake. Shanny's definately sticking with Jake for now and I don't think he would put young Jay in there againast that Ravens D. jmho

1-2-3 :Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:
I wouldn't do that either. I think Plummer has a couple more games to get it turned around but I've seen Shanahan pull players before after screwing up so we'll see.

[Hulamau]

Jake got extremely lucky on that outlet pass to Alexander or Johnson from our 3 yrd line when he threw that sideways pass all the way across the field and came within a hairs breadth of having it INTed for 7.

That was a VERY reakless pass and would have been a back breaker had it been INTed.

Shannon Sharpe and the CBS crew when reviewing that play said that if that very ill-advised pass gets picked Jake would need an armed excort to get out of Invesco!

Shanny must see that stuff and the long eye-lock on Rod that got INTed into double coverage and just shake his head and realize he's got to tighten the noose on Jake even more.

[Crushaholic]

Jimmy wants Jay? Good luck with that. I want Salma Hayek, but that doesn't mean I'll be getting what I want...

[Rigs11]

Jimmy's as stupid as his haircut.

[Spider]

God, I hope not. That would have the fire dept. at your place in no time. All that wood smoke, you know? ;D

Ben

LOL ...... Now you sound like my wife ....... Kids please get out of the house your Dad has the circle saw again
2 phrases that makes my wife gringe is ..... Hey Honey watch this , and Trust me I know what I am doing ;D

[REB]

LOL ...... Now you sound like my wife ....... Kids please get out of the house your Dad has the circle saw again
2 phrases that makes my wife gringe is ..... Hey Honey watch this , and Trust me I know what I am doing ;D

LOL Sounds familiar :spit:

[Spider]

LOL Sounds familiar :spit:

we got to keep our women on thier toes . If they get the slightest Idea we might have a clue about anything , they will flood us with Honey do's ;D

[REB]

we got to keep our women on thier toes . If they get the slightest Idea we might have a clue about anything , they will flood us with Honey do's ;D

LOL You got that right :)

[jonny1]

Who was the OMer that melted down draft day when the Broncos took Cutler?

I remember him saying something like, "As soon as Jake has a bad day, everyone will be calling for Cutler . . ."

Prophetic.

[Spider]

Who was the OMer that melted down draft day when the Broncos took Cutler?

I remember him saying something like, "As soon as Jake has a bad day, everyone will be calling for Cutler . . ."

Prophetic.
;D I know who it was , but I wont say , the said poster would like to let that die .........

[cutthemdown]

I'm not saying I don't agree but timing is everything when switching qbs. Once you do it you will be stuck because if Cutler does worst then what do you do? Go back to Plummers whose confidence would be shot from the benching. Not to mention the fact team wouldn't know what qb to back up and differing opinions in a locker room are not a good thing. Best thing to do is to wait for Plummer to get drilled and need a breather and then see what Cutler can do. Or if some game is a huge blowout and we are behind a ton maybe you give Cutler the 4th quarter and see what he can do. Or something like that. Something where if Cutler doesnt do well you can still go with Plummer because he will be able to say was just hurt cutler was filling in, etc etc etc. Instead of they thought Cutler was better and they were wrong, but they still think I suck.

[broncolife]

I'm not saying I don't agree but timing is everything when switching qbs. Once you do it you will be stuck because if Cutler does worst then what do you do? Go back to Plummers whose confidence would be shot from the benching. Not to mention the fact team wouldn't know what qb to back up and differing opinions in a locker room are not a good thing. Best thing to do is to wait for Plummer to get drilled and need a breather and then see what Cutler can do. Or if some game is a huge blowout and we are behind a ton maybe you give Cutler the 4th quarter and see what he can do. Or something like that. Something where if Cutler doesnt do well you can still go with Plummer because he will be able to say was just hurt cutler was filling in, etc etc etc. Instead of they thought Cutler was better and they were wrong, but they still think I suck.

I can see it now.
Shanny: Jake on the next play limp to the bench.
Jake:But
Shanny: Just do it.
Shanny: Jay your in.

[broncolife]

Who was the OMer that melted down draft day when the Broncos took Cutler?

I remember him saying something like, "As soon as Jake has a bad day, everyone will be calling for Cutler . . ."

Prophetic.
heres a hint

_ _ _ _ _ _ Crush
2,_,6
mikey likes it _ _ _ _

[fido]

Losing Kubes,,,,drafting cutler = deer in the headlites

again

[DB-Freak]

Aaah, but that's beside the point. They play as a unit, a well oil-machine of a team. That's what makes it work. That's what makes Jake's play so curious. I am sure everyone on that offense could do a better job, but it will always start with the QB.

someone's gotta be a surefire star.

Try to name a so called well oiled machine without a pretty big name in them.

[Bronx33]

Jimmy walked into a goldmine and pulled out some SBs (DUH) i really never liked the guy or believed anything that comes out his piehole, hes got hair and a tan that's about it.

[bombquixote]

There's more to the problem than simply Jake. This offense was dramatically retooled during the offseason, from the coaching staff on down. It needs time to gel, to develope chemistry. This started to happen in the second half against the chiefs. Hopefully it will continue against the Pats. Yes, Jake played like crap both games. What he needs, and what this offense as a whole needs, is confidence, which only comes from success. Jake plays well when he plays confidently. Benching him for Cutler wouldn't generate the offensive spark so many here think it would--no, it would dissolve what little chemistry the offense has finally begun to demonstrate.

Like somebody said, it's all about timing. If things really do go south and the players believe they can't win behind Jake, then yeah, you absolutely start Cutler. To do so in that circumstance can provide the spark of hope that ups everybody's level of play. But if you do it prematurely, you send a very different message: "This team is bad and we are desperate; we are clutching at straws." Nothing kills your team's chances faster than demolishing its confidence.

So for my money Jake stays, at least for a while. Once he actually connects on a TD pass or two, he may finally forget that Cutler looms behind him.

[DeusExManning]

Start Jay against the Raiders, next game is Cleveland. He will have confidence then.

[BroncoSoja]

Losing Kubes,,,,drafting cutler = deer in the headlites

again

Going to the Playoffs w/Kubes and while Cutlers is still in College= Dear in the headlights* agian.

I love how so many people try to put all the blame on anyone and everyone but PLUMMER.. This guy has always been a choker yet people will find any and every excuse to put the blame anywhere else but on #16..

Amazing, do you guys have physical love for this man or something, does he send you money.

[BroncoSoja]

Start Jay against the Raiders, next game is Cleveland. He will have confidence then.

Rep to you. This is exactly what will probably happen. I hope.

[Dedhed]

Well, if we do make a switch at QB, after the NE is the time to do it. We have a bye and a game at home. Two weeks to prepare for a very tough defense (although it does look like they played Pop Warner teams the first two weeks.)

I have been adamant against Cutler coming in this whole time. Now, I'm not so sure.

The time to do it would be after the the Ravens game. Shanahan won't start Cutler against a top 3 defense in the league, and if we go 1-3 there will be little or no politcal recourse for Shanahan and Cutler to deal with. Everyone will think the move is justified, except for the die hard Plummer apologists.

The Broncos play the Raiders and the Browns in weeks 6 and 7. Two perfect break-in games for a rookie to build confidence before taking on real teams like the Steelers and Colts.

[OrangeShadow]

easy to sit there and say that as an analyst

[ScottXray]

The time to do it would be after the the Ravens game. Shanahan won't start Cutler against a top 3 defense in the league, and if we go 1-3 there will be little or no politcal recourse for Shanahan and Cutler to deal with. Everyone will think the move is justified, except for the die hard Plummer apologists.

The Broncos play the Raiders and the Browns in weeks 6 and 7. Two perfect break-in games for a rookie to build confidence before taking on real teams like the Steelers and Colts.


If you didn't see the Raiders game yesterday, I was impressed with their pass rush. They were getting good pressure rushing THREE down linemen, and Fat boy Sapp has lost 25 pounds and looks much more like the OLD Sapp. They chased McNair all OVER the place.

The rest of their team sucks but they can and WILL bring heat on a Rookie QB.

As far as When to switch..At 1-3 or 1-4 then the PUBLIC will say..Yes! Some here won't say it until 1-6 or 2-7!

But , the TEAM is still behind Jake. Guys like Lynch and ROD still think HE is their best shot at SB41.. And like it or not Shanny also owes them the best chance they can get. He will give Jake a LOT of rope.

When The TEAM gets on Jakes case, assuming he continues bad play, then Shanny will pull the plug, drop the trap door, tighten the noose, whatever.
.

[Atlas]

If Denver goes 1-4 that means they lost to Oakland at home. If that happens there better be a whole bunch of new starters on the team not just the QB position.

[Kaylore]

The Raiders D isn't their weak point. They would be above average if the offense wasn't so horrible and so horribly predictable.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Shannon Sharpe and the CBS crew when reviewing that play said that if that very ill-advised pass gets picked Jake would need an armed excort to get out of Invesco!


He wouldn't have lasted long enough to need the escort out of the stadium.

[footstepsfrom#27]

easy to sit there and say that as an analyst
The same analyst made that decision himself when he started Aikman as a rookie on a terrible 1-15 team, so he has the credibility to make the statement since he has backed it up already.

[NFLBRONCO]

It started with the Texan game. I really believed that the crux of Plummer's woes was a lack offensive talent. Four years in the same offensive system, ten years in the league, a bunch of new weapons, a good line, coming off of a poor performance in the AFC Championship game and a new rookie pushing him. All these things should translate to taking any QB taking their game to the next level.

What we got was total suck. Pure, ugly suckiness. No accuracy downfield, bad reads, staring down Rod Smith and 5 turnvovers with no touchdowns. That he had so much going for him and went 180 degrees the opposite way has infuriated me. Plummer played better from year to year here and now he's worse!

There's so much wrong with the whole situation. We're already playing the game dumbed down for the Veteran. We might as well do the same thing for the Rookie with better mechanics, accuracy and a long ball that scares people.

I'm getting really tired of seeing Plummer walk to the sideline with his head bowed like "whatever dude" when he messes up. I'm getting sick of seeing Plummer argue with his coaches after he makes a mistake rather than just be humble and move on about it. And I'm really tired of the lame-ass excuses for every bad play: "Well the defensive back made a great play...well I think Rod was held on that play...you know I think the receiver didn't come down with it." Way to step up Jake! Way to respond when we gave you the tools to do so. Bottome line: 150 TD's to 151 Interceptions! :cuss: :gripe: ~Popps~


I agree with most of this above. I do think Denver needs another legit weapon on offense though. I'm not impressed with wr corp after Rod and Javon giving rookie a pass because he needs time to show his stuff.

[ScottXray]

The Raiders D isn't their weak point. They would be above average if the offense wasn't so horrible and so horribly predictable.
Sounds like another AFC West team so far this year...

[-Slap-]

I hope we put Jay in against New England or Baltimore. It will probably give us a big advantage. Defenses usually have big adjustments to make when the backup quarterback comes into the game and this would be no exception.

Of course he would take his share of lumps, but so what? That's part of the process and it has to happen sooner or later. My only hesitation about playing him against Baltimore is the gutless League Office will literally allow Ray Lewis to do anything he wants without fear of reprisal.

[Taco John]

I hope we put Jay in against New England or Baltimore. It will probably give us a big advantage. Defenses usually have big adjustments to make when the backup quarterback comes into the game and this would be no exception.

Of course he would take his share of lumps, but so what? That's part of the process and it has to happen sooner or later. My only hesitation about playing him against Baltimore is the gutless League Office will literally allow Ray Lewis to do anything he wants without fear of reprisal.



I'd love to see Jay start this week (obviously), but I worry about starting him against a team like Baltimore. Those guys are confidence robbers. Which is why I predict Jay will start the week after that.

I'll admit it... I have that game marked down as an "L." Even if we were going in there undefeated, I'd feel the same. I just don't feel good about the way our team mathches up with them on either side of the ball.

[baja]

Well i do think players get better and learn being on the field. That being said, this was his 2nd professional game! Plus, there is a reason for holding him off... do you really want to throw him to the wolves against NE and Baltimore? Shanahan knows what he is doing. To replace now would be conceding those games in theory because Shanahan will try and protect Cutler against them just like he is doing with Plummer. I think NE could goad Cutler into a lot of TO's by messing up the timing of his WR's. I think that Baltimore would be out to hurt him. I think we get him coached up, make it through NE, the Bye, and Baltimore and we go from there. Hopefully we are 2-2 at that time.


The way we are playing right now no way we beat either NE or B'more. we'd be 1 and 3 and had Green played we'd be 0 and 4

[-Slap-]

I'd love to see Jay start this week (obviously), but I worry about starting him against a team like Baltimore. Those guys are confidence robbers. Which is why I predict Jay will start the week after that.

I'll admit it... I have that game marked down as an "L." Even if we were going in there undefeated, I'd feel the same. I just don't feel good about the way our team mathches up with them on either side of the ball.

I think we're going to kick their asses this year. Their offense isn't going to do jack**** in that game.

[NFLBRONCO]

Denver only needs one thing for Plummer to play qb all year

A 7 ft or taller WR to snag his overthows

[NFLBRONCO]

Maybe we should tie Rod and Javon together back to back so when Jake throws behind Rod Javon can make the catch. :)

[BroncosBeerMan]

Did anyone consider this for the reason that we're struggling...and not because of Plummer.

"Maybe it shouldn't be so surprising the Broncos are sputtering on offense with longtime coordinator Gary Kubiak now coaching in Houston. But Shanahan said he's not so sure there's an adjustment period going on."

Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-broncos-wretchedoffense&prov=ap&type=lgns

[NFLBRONCO]

Did anyone consider this for the reason that we're struggling...and not because of Plummer.

"Maybe it shouldn't be so surprising the Broncos are sputtering on offense with longtime coordinator Gary Kubiak now coaching in Houston. But Shanahan said he's not so sure there's an adjustment period going on."

Link: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-broncos-wretchedoffense&prov=ap&type=lgns


I think QB gets the most grief esp when a team drafts a qb high. I think alot of things are factors though.

Javon Tony Kircus 2 rb's are in their first years here and loss of Kubes hurts no doubt esp for Plummer. We need time to gel I just hope we gel fast enough to have a good season.

[Spider]

It has been a good thing Jake hasnt thrown a TD pass to Javon ... Lambeau Leap in Mile High ? probably blow out a Knee ......

[BroncoSoja]

I'd love to see Jay start this week (obviously), but I worry about starting him against a team like Baltimore. Those guys are confidence robbers. Which is why I predict Jay will start the week after that.

I'll admit it... I have that game marked down as an "L." Even if we were going in there undefeated, I'd feel the same. I just don't feel good about the way our team mathches up with them on either side of the ball.

It just seems every time we play them they push us around and intimidate us. Every game agianst them its just the same, that and we can't stop there TE....

[fontaine]

To be honest, none of these guys are surefire stars or at least anymore aside from Lepsis.

A lot of uncertainty looming around these guys.


Man, I flat out disagree with this.

Our offense is more than capable to get the job done. Let me be absolutely clear on this: I don't find any major faults in our offensive players apart from QB.

Our OL is solid, our running game is very good and we have two solid WRs with two decent TEs.

But you can have the best ammo in the world and it won't count for sh*t unless the delivery system is solid. That's what we're working with right now.

How does an aging, slow WR like Troy Brown look decent? How do supposed busts like Donte Stallworth and Reche Caldwell look good now? It takes a QB to deliver accurate passes in stride to get the most out of those WRs.

There are very few WRs in this league that are complete guys who can run all the routes and do all the little things. So you've got to mesh the QB and WR's strength together to make it work.

So let me ask you: Judging on Plummer's play in the past two games, what are his strengths? On what specific passing routes, patterns and distances has he looked good?

He hasn't. As a matter of fact the only real strength in Jake's passing game was his ability to rollout and scan one half of the field to find a WR. So far he's played CRAP even on rollouts. Two bone headed ints on roll outs where he was NOT under pressure.

So if you're QB can't deliver the ball, it won't matter if you've got Randy Moss running out there, just like we saw with Collins/Brooks.

The biggest problem is that, Plummer is not just playing horribly, he's looking like crap even on his bread and butter plays so how as a coach can you gameplan around that? It's not the offense, it's Jake's extremely bad start to the season.

[watermock]

I've seen better offensive moves from a nursing home ice cream social for the lactose intolerant.

[watermock]

I saw one excellent throw all day, and that too was thrown into double coverage but at least he threw it with some zip. That duck he lobbed up to Smith was simply absurd. Completely bracketed top and bottom.

Again, if we have to use a choke collar on a 10 year vet, WTF is the difference to bring in the kid? What did you expect Shanahan to say, that Plummer has stunk and has a 38 passer rating? Even Orange 4 Life has vanished.

[DB-Freak]

Man, I flat out disagree with this.

Our offense is more than capable to get the job done. Let me be absolutely clear on this: I don't find any major faults in our offensive players apart from QB.

Our OL is solid, our running game is very good and we have two solid WRs with two decent TEs.

But you can have the best ammo in the world and it won't count for sh*t unless the delivery system is solid. That's what we're working with right now.

How does an aging, slow WR like Troy Brown look decent? How do supposed busts like Donte Stallworth and Reche Caldwell look good now? It takes a QB to deliver accurate passes in stride to get the most out of those WRs.

There are very few WRs in this league that are complete guys who can run all the routes and do all the little things. So you've got to mesh the QB and WR's strength together to make it work.

So let me ask you: Judging on Plummer's play in the past two games, what are his strengths? On what specific passing routes, patterns and distances has he looked good?

He hasn't. As a matter of fact the only real strength in Jake's passing game was his ability to rollout and scan one half of the field to find a WR. So far he's played CRAP even on rollouts. Two bone headed ints on roll outs where he was NOT under pressure.

So if you're QB can't deliver the ball, it won't matter if you've got Randy Moss running out there, just like we saw with Collins/Brooks.

The biggest problem is that, Plummer is not just playing horribly, he's looking like crap even on his bread and butter plays so how as a coach can you gameplan around that? It's not the offense, it's Jake's extremely bad start to the season.
I would consider Brady a surefire star in that offense.

I wasn't disputing the fact that Plummer has been playing pretty bad. Just saying, the offense doesn't have many surefire stars that will produce for us. I consider Walker the closest to that guy but is just coming back from a pretty serious knee injury.