Jakes needs a running game......

[DarkHorse30]

this "put 8 in the box, and make Jake beat us" is getting friggin' old. Somehow Shanahan needs to get our running game in sync...and please no more gadget plays in the first series.

I like the win but it is very strange to EXPECT our offense to go three and out and EXPECT our D to force a three and out. C'mon Broncos, start getting a friggin' lead. Our D is not going to be able to win every game.

[broncsyanks]

dude look at your number of posts?

Omen or what?

[theAPAOps5]

I agree 100% if a RB emerges and poses a threat Jake will get the plays that make him shine. Tater looks to be making strides. MBell, well he is rookie but still has potential. Cobbs, eh he kind of made me mad with that almost lost fumble on the OT kickoff, I was screaming at him!!!

[footstepsfrom#27]

Or maybe the running game needs a QB. I wonder if we'd be seeing 8 in the box if we had a legit passing threat who could go down field...

[Bronco LB 59]

The running game didn't look so hot at the beginning of 2004 and 2005, either. It's too early to panic. The running game hasn't been that bad anyways.

[wabbit]

A side note to consider, considering the fact that our offense lacks...I don't know...imagination maybe??

I heard someone mention today that the loss of Kubiak may be more of a factor in Denvers lackluster play than some might want to admit.

19 points in two games against so-so defenses does make you wonder.

[Circle Orange]

And touchdowns wouldn't hurt, either. This field goal stuff ain't gonna get it in the long run. Shut out at home in the first half? Puhleese.

[Broncos4tw]

They are stacking the line because of Plummer's crappy performance. Our running game needs a consistant QB. Plummer is the reason our running game is having issues, not the other way around. If we had an actual passing threat, they wouldn't be able to stack the line the way the are.

Why people keep trying to come up with excuses for our QBs crappy performances is baffling me. Call a spade a spade fans.

[Play2win]

dude look at your number of posts?

Omen or what?


That is Completely WRONG...

[Tombstone RJ]

A side note to consider, considering the fact that our offense lacks...I don't know...imagination maybe??

I heard someone mention today that the loss of Kubiak may be more of a factor in Denvers lackluster play than some might want to admit.

19 points in two games against so-so defenses does make you wonder.

Kubiak is not the reason the Broncos can't score points. If anything, Dinger is a good change because the Broncos offense, under Kubiak, was getting way too predictable.

Shanahan needs to stick with one RB, and stop rotating them.

Shanahan and Dinger need to establish the running game, period. Once the running game is a true threat, the passing game and the bootlegs will once again appear.

This ain't rocket science.

[Broncos4tw]

It works both ways. You can't run every stinking down and expect it to work. If the other team knows that you are leery of putting the ball in your QBs hand, or if he throws almost every pass poorly, yea, they are going to stack the line. Why worry about a non-existant passing game?

Our runners have been fine. They cannot carry the team on their shoulders any more than our defense can continue to do what they are doing. Our Ds performance is the only reason we are not 0-2 right now. But they can't keep it up forever.

[ozomulsion]

Tatum is averaging 5.7 YPC on the season. We all know what the problem is and it's not the runningbacks.

[Play2win]

Jake need a running game...

Jake needs a Pink Slip...

[Play2win]

Tatum is averaging 5.7 YPC on the season. We all know what the problem is and it's not the runningbacks.

Be it MIKE or T, can you imagine how much better the both of them would be with THE CUT as the man...

[-Slap-]

All the aspects of the running game that we haven't executed well since the days of TD and Portis are continuing to deteriorate: short yardage, red zone, blitz pickups.

[Clockwork Orange]

It's not as if Shanahan isn't aware of this. He was bringing Jamal Lewis in for a visit before the Ratbirds overpaid to keep him and he was going to take Laurence Maroney if he wasn't able to trade up for a QB.

I believe that they won't be going into next year with the same patchwork situation at RB as we have this year.

[Taco John]

I'm loving the fact that people are blaming Shanahan for having no imagination, and crediting Kubiak for what our offense is currently missing. I hope that it gets under Shanahan's skin and he fights back by benching the guy he's been bending over backwards to turn into a legitimate quarterback despite his lack of ability and his 2 cent head.

This offense will get real creative again when we have a guy who can throw a fade pass, or hit an open receiver down the field with a throw on a rope, and not a wounded duck on a rainbow.

[-Slap-]

It's not as if Shanahan isn't aware of this. He was bringing Jamal Lewis in for a visit before the Ratbirds overpaid to keep him and he was going to take Laurence Maroney if he wasn't able to trade up for a QB.

I believe that they won't be going into next year with the same patchwork situation at RB as we have this year.

Well, I'm glad we didn't get Lewis. I don't want to trade for any running back. I want a nice, talented, low mileage college kid we can ride hard until he breaks down.

[ozomulsion]

We could've drafted Jerious Noorwood. I can't believe Shanny & Turner underestimated this guy. When Warrick Dunn stops rushing for 130+ yards per game everyone will see what we missed out on.

[Clockwork Orange]

Well, I'm glad we didn't get Lewis. I don't want to trade for any running back. I want a nice, talented, low mileage college kid we can ride hard until he breaks down.

They also brought in LenDale White (the guy I wanted) for a personal visit before the draft. That combined with what I said before tells me that Shanahan is very aware of the lack of a true #1 RB on the roster.

I believe that this is something that will be addressed in the coming offseason because I can't see Shanahan handing the reigns over the Cutler with an uncertain situation at RB. I can't see him putting all the onus on his new QB right away, so I think he's going to do what he can to get a workhorse RB.

[Taco John]

This is a question I've been pondering for awhile now... Shanahan has already started to make moves to climb the draft board. I wonder if we'd draft a DE, DT, or RB with our next first round pick.

[Finger Roll]

The running game has been very good considering the other teams are stacking the line of scrimmage. I've been very impressed with tatum this year.

[Clockwork Orange]

This is a question I've been pondering for awhile now... Shanahan has already started to make moves to climb the draft board. I wonder if we'd draft a DE, DT, or RB with our next first round pick.

Don't rule it out. The Lelie trade will likely bring them an extra 3rd rounder this year (the most likely of the multitude of scenarios) and that gives them the means to be mobile on draft day. A 3rd rounder & 4th rounder is what got them from 29 to 15 this year and another 3rd rounder got them from 15 to 11.

[Finger Roll]

DE, OT or cover safety

[Popps]

This is a question I've been pondering for awhile now... Shanahan has already started to make moves to climb the draft board. I wonder if we'd draft a DE, DT, or RB with our next first round pick.

I wonder how high Shanny will go for a RB. He knows he can get results with lower picks... and his last high RB pick only returned marginal results. (Though I love what Tatum brings to the offense.)

Dead horse stuff, but I think Shanny might have outsmarted himself with letting Droughns and Anderson go. Droughns is a very solid, talented back and we all know Anderson is a workhorse.

Trying to get it done with a street free agent and a guy we KNOW isn't a #1 borders on reckless. But, to his credit... the numbers aren't bad. I just think the numbers don't tell the whole story. We need someone we can pound defenses with, and/or a combination back like Davis was for us.

[broncocalijohn]

This is a question I've been pondering for awhile now... Shanahan has already started to make moves to climb the draft board. I wonder if we'd draft a DE, DT, or RB with our next first round pick.


TJ move your post to the draft thread so it can start now. Other teams are watching the naked bootleg in both games. We gave up on it when Rams snuffed it out. THings that were working are now known plays when it occurs. Shanny needs to open some of those old plays from the past but if we are trying to minimize the play calls, then plummer and us are in trouble. He has been here long enough to handle "newer" plays.

[Popps]

I asked the question a few times last week... had our offense gotten stagnant? Predictable?

Some people mistook that as defending Plummer, but quite the contrary. When you have a QB who has limitations, you've got to do things to help him be successful. Running the same few boots and slant passes mixed with a few run plays every series wasn't helping our cause.

The announcers talked about it today... our play-calling really helped Jake pull out of a funk. It kept K.C. on their heels and gave Jake a chance to make a couple of key plays when he needed to.

Our offensive game plan was much better today, even if we didn't look great executing it for a good portion of the time.

[fontaine]

For what it's worth:

I've noticed that on 3rd downs, defenses (the past two games) are getting more and more aggressive on bringing players up. What I've seen is that they are crowding the line of scrimmage with a lot of players and not leaving guys back to protect the deep throws. When the defense is doing that then you're not going to call a running play because there are too many bodies and traffic cheating right up.

So in those 3rd down plays we have to get our QB to make the play.

Jake converted 1/8 3rd downs tonite, with one Int.

Most of those 3rd downs were less than 7 yards.

If your QB consistently sucks on 3rd downs then defenses will continue to crowd the line and you just can't run against this over and over. In order for Jake to get better he HAS to prove that he can find open WRs for decent gains when defenses do this. Until he does then no defense, no matter how much they suck, is going to stop from this.

[elsid13]

This season early offense season woes, remind me a lot of the season when TD was in the backfield with SOB. TD had horrible start of the season, when QB wasn't producing. The running game not the problem, both Bells are showing stuff. Tatum is showing some toughness and MBell is showing the cutting ability that staff likes. The pass blocking while improve as both get more live experience with it.

[loborugger]

All the aspects of the running game that we haven't executed well since the days of TD and Portis are continuing to deteriorate: short yardage, red zone, blitz pickups.

Exactly. The stats look good, but there are issues as you have pointed out. We often pass on third and short, cant punch it in inside the 5, etc. Taking FG after getting first down on the 2 is no good. Its like we can run the ball except when we need to/are expected to.

[Orange_Beard]

this "put 8 in the box, and make Jake beat us" is getting friggin' old. Somehow Shanahan needs to get our running game in sync...and please no more gadget plays in the first series.

I like the win but it is very strange to EXPECT our offense to go three and out and EXPECT our D to force a three and out. C'mon Broncos, start getting a friggin' lead. Our D is not going to be able to win every game.

What the hell does this have to do with the running game?
8 in the box is an invitation to pass. It is the perfect set-up for the "west-coast O", if our QB can't run the WCO, get rid of him.

Of course Teams are going to put 8 in the box, Pitt showed exactly how to do it, the game plan has been written.

Until our passing game makes them pay, we are going to see it every week.

[bloodsunday]

Tatum is averaging 5.7 YPC on the season. We all know what the problem is and it's not the runningbacks.

Agreed. I said this same thing last week and got taken to task. Those same people better step up this week.

[Mile High Shack]

until Jake starts throwing the ball better, we aren't going to get much of a running game going

[bloodsunday]

I asked the question a few times last week... had our offense gotten stagnant? Predictable?

Some people mistook that as defending Plummer, but quite the contrary. When you have a QB who has limitations, you've got to do things to help him be successful. Running the same few boots and slant passes mixed with a few run plays every series wasn't helping our cause.

The announcers talked about it today... our play-calling really helped Jake pull out of a funk. It kept K.C. on their heels and gave Jake a chance to make a couple of key plays when he needed to.

Our offensive game plan was much better today, even if we didn't look great executing it for a good portion of the time.

Funny because many believe Denver "dumbed" down the offense yesterday. Perhaps the lack of innovation is a function of the QB? Just saying. Perhaps Shanahan lacks as much confidence in Plummer as he lacks in himself at the moment. He looks like a shaken guy and he is not playing very well. Perhaps Jake needs to be a front-runner to be a good QB. I haven't seen much out of him when this team was down.

[Rohirrim]

Maybe Shanahan just didn't want to give Belichick any film to look at? ;D

I know that game almost put me to sleep.

[Steve Sewell]

DE, OT or cover safety

Kenny Phillips, S from Miami. I bet he'll be available in the mid to late first round next year.

[Steve Sewell]

Funny because many believe Denver "dumbed" down the offense yesterday. Perhaps the lack of innovation is a function of the QB? Just saying. Perhaps Shanahan lacks as much confidence in Plummer as he lacks in himself at the moment. He looks like a shaken guy and he is not playing very well. Perhaps Jake needs to be a front-runner to be a good QB. I haven't seen much out of him when this team was down.

Well, I don't know about that! Jake came up big time in OT. Couple of clutch 2nd and long completions to Kircus and Walker. I thought he responded pretty well after pooping the bed in the first half.

[Rascal]

A side note to consider, considering the fact that our offense lacks...I don't know...imagination maybe??

I heard someone mention today that the loss of Kubiak may be more of a factor in Denvers lackluster play than some might want to admit.

19 points in two games against so-so defenses does make you wonder.


The chiefs D is not so-so. They are a lot better then people, espeically people on this board, will give them credit for.

[Rascal]

I wonder how high Shanny will go for a RB. He knows he can get results with lower picks... and his last high RB pick only returned marginal results. (Though I love what Tatum brings to the offense.)

Dead horse stuff, but I think Shanny might have outsmarted himself with letting Droughns and Anderson go. Droughns is a very solid, talented back and we all know Anderson is a workhorse.

Trying to get it done with a street free agent and a guy we KNOW isn't a #1 borders on reckless. But, to his credit... the numbers aren't bad. I just think the numbers don't tell the whole story. We need someone we can pound defenses with, and/or a combination back like Davis was for us.

I'd love to get a stud RB, but I would rather have our current RB's and a much better D-line (assuming Cutler is our starting QB). If Jake is the starting QB I'd take a better RB.

[bloodsunday]

Well, I don't know about that! Jake came up big time in OT. Couple of clutch 2nd and long completions to Kircus and Walker. I thought he responded pretty well after pooping the bed in the first half.

Jake said himself the pass to Walker was not a good one. Walker made a good adjustment to the ball. The pass to Kircus was good. But the two biggest plays on the driver -- Bell's run and Walker's catch were not part of Plummer responding but playmakers doing what they do.

[ozomulsion]

Agreed. I said this same thing last week and got taken to task. Those same people better step up this week.

Unfortunately most of them won't.

[TerrElway]

A side note to consider, considering the fact that our offense lacks...I don't know...imagination maybe??

I heard someone mention today that the loss of Kubiak may be more of a factor in Denvers lackluster play than some might want to admit.

19 points in two games against so-so defenses does make you wonder.

The thing that perplexes me is that there is no rhythm to the offense. No rhyme or reason to what they are trying to accomplish. It's like they are opening the play book, closing their eyes, circling their finger above a page then dropping it and saying "Yah. That one looks good. Try that one."

We HAVE seen the screen about 4 more times this year than all of last year. Nice to see it's still in the playbook.

[Rohirrim]

Let's put it this way; If the Broncos had a Larry Johnson or an LT on the depth chart, it would scare the **** out of the rest of the league. They couldn't afford to contain the bootleg from the outside. Remember the days of TD? They had to bite on every run fake. They HAD to!

[OrangeShadow]

This offense will get real creative again when we have a guy who can throw a fade pass, or hit an open receiver down the field with a throw on a rope, and not a wounded duck on a rainbow.

ROFL!

[Popps]

Perhaps Jake needs to be a front-runner to be a good QB. .

You know, I can't argue this at this point. I don't think we know, either way... but I'm sure starting to wonder if the pressure is getting to him.

I truly believe that there are two ways QBs respond to pressure from a back-up. One is to step up their game, and the other is to get frazzled. I would have normally pegged Plummer as a guy to improve his performance in this kind of situation. He's a very competitive guy.

But, at a certain point, if you perceive a complete lack of confidence in you from the people employing you... maybe it effects your performance negatively.

I have no idea, but he's got to kick it into gear RIGHT NOW.

Shanahan has come out and made it clear that he doesn't want to have to put the kid in and make the "Griese mistake" again. Jake just needs to settle down and let the ball rip with confidence.

You can absolutely tell the guy is playing scared.

Just fire the ball, Jake! If it's picked off, it's picked off. But, quit lobbing those "safety" passes up there that only make it easier for the DBs to make a play on.

In other words, just play like you did the bulk of last season.

The dude has to put this **** out of his mind. He's got a great opportunity in a prime time game this weekend.

[broncsyanks]

its going to be a LOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
GGGGGGGGGGGGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEEE EE

jake needs to step up just watch

[Popps]

Let's put it this way; If the Broncos had a Larry Johnson or an LT on the depth chart, it would scare the **** out of the rest of the league. They couldn't afford to contain the bootleg from the outside. Remember the days of TD? They had to bite on every run fake. They HAD to!

Sigh.

We had some mean bastards pushing people around up front, too. We also had one of the best blocking FBs in the game... which I felt was a really underrated weapon for us.

[bloodsunday]

You know, I can't argue this at this point. I don't think we know, either way... but I'm sure starting to wonder if the pressure is getting to him.

I truly believe that there are two ways QBs respond to pressure from a back-up. One is to step up their game, and the other is to get frazzled. I would have normally pegged Plummer as a guy to improve his performance in this kind of situation. He's a very competitive guy.

But, at a certain point, if you perceive a complete lack of confidence in you from the people employing you... maybe it effects your performance negatively.
Good post.

Drew Brees set a great example -- make yourself too valuable to dispense. Jake has the lockerroom (or he'd already be benched, IMO), so all he has to do is play well and Denver will have some tough, tough choice to make. I thought if there was one guy that could take it, it would be Jake. He seemed to take it well all preseason. (The lame ass fans that are at the game booing doesn't help matters).

And the most important thing, as you point out, is how he responds. I personally feel that Shanahan is challenging him with Cutler, as well all know he likes to do. This team is good, maybe even Super Bowl good, so its really up to Jake.

[bloodsunday]

Sigh.

We had some mean bastards pushing people around up front, too. We also had one of the best blocking FBs in the game... which I felt was a really underrated weapon for us.

Who are you and what have you done with Popps?!

I have been beating this point since I arrived at the Mane and no one seems to give much credibility to it. Somehow everyone believes that the stats are more important than the game itself. If at the end of the day Denver has run for 4+ yds/carry and has 150 yds rushing no one cares. And then when we go on the road and can't execute our offense its a big mystery?

This team has lost a ton of talent at RB/FB/OL since the Super Bowl teams. And if I am gonna defend Jake it would be on that point. There is more pressure on our short to intermediate passing game because we can't line up like KC did Sunday and run right at you, even without the threat of a passing game. Sure when we play with the lead for 80% of the snaps or when Jake is hitting his intermediate passes the running game looks good at the end of the day, but how does it look in the 1st and 2nd quarter? How does it look on 3rd and 1? How confident are you about lining up at the goal line on 4th and 1?

[Popps]

Who are you and what have you done with Popps?!
?

Ha!

Honestly, I've always been a huge "line-first" guy around here. Mostly the D-line, because I think our offensive line has been pretty good. But, I'm a big believer in the "it starts up front" adage.... win in the trenches, etc.

[Popps]

How does it look on 3rd and 1? How confident are you about lining up at the goal line on 4th and 1?

Well, first and goal didn't go so well for us, so I guess I'd have to say... not so confident.

[DarkHorse30]

I want T. Bell to start, and Cobbs to fill in when Bell needs a breather. Mike Bell seems to be a good back, but I'm tired of Shanahan being afraid to start Tatum every game.

Also, Plummer said this after the game "Late in the game, we started getting in the gun, throwing the ball quick, which I always like," Plummer said. "That's what these coaches do, they make an adjustment."

So......why wouldn't Shanahan use the hurry-up, now and then EARLY, to speed things up for Plummer? Nearly every offense in the league uses this...it would be good practice for our D to get used to it in practice. Then during the game, keep their defense on the field and tire them out. If our line is so speedy and small, than use it to your advantage. They won't passblock like they can runblock.....and they can't runblock effectively when the D-line can just keep rotating 2-3 new pass-rushers on every play.

[Hulamau]

It's not as if Shanahan isn't aware of this. He was bringing Jamal Lewis in for a visit before the Ratbirds overpaid to keep him and he was going to take Laurence Maroney if he wasn't able to trade up for a QB.

I believe that they won't be going into next year with the same patchwork situation at RB as we have this year.

I totally agree CO, I think a stud 27 carry RB is at least #2 on our draft /FA shoping list this offseason ... if not #1 depending on how the D-line shapes up this year in the sack/pressure/run stop department.

We need the Cutler era to start off with a dominant run game, and we'll need a top safety prospect too to fill in for Lynch's aging skills as well.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Shanny be more inclined to go FA for the D-line again to have guys that can fill that hole right away and draft a top RB even though we rarely have done that as a rookie RB can contribute right away next year while the rest of the team is at a peak.

But to get this year's running game going, it looks like we are going to have to set up the run with the pass more often than in the past, as neither of these RBs looks dominant straight out of the blocks.

[bloodsunday]

Ha!

Honestly, I've always been a huge "line-first" guy around here. Mostly the D-line, because I think our offensive line has been pretty good. But, I'm a big believer in the "it starts up front" adage.... win in the trenches, etc.

I couldn't agree more. I put a bit more of a premium on the OL only because Shanny is offensive coach and looks to control the game with his offense. The blueprint that worked for us was a top-notch OL that dominated games and retread DL that took a bunch of chances. Feels a little like we're stuck in between right now.

If we had Tony Dungy as a head coach, I'd put a premium on DL.