OK, I'm Going To Stir The Jay Cutler Pot. [Archive] - The Orange Mane

RhymesayersDU

09-17-2006, 04:39 PM

I apologize in advance for doing the following:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c254/KenyonMartin/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

I'll be the first to say that I think starting Jay Cutler would be throwing away our season. Now, perhaps that wouldn't be such a bad thing. Get a decent draft spot, get D-Line help maybe...

Anyways, I'm not a Plummer backer by any means, I just don't think Cutler is ready. But if all our offense can produce is 19 points through 8 1/2 quarters of football, we might as well start Cutler.

I'd still give Jake at least 8 games, but if these trends continue I'd jump on the Cutler bandwagon with the rest of you guys who want him playing. I realize it's not all Jake's fault. But at some point, you gotta think that a change might be made.

Barry Ramey

09-17-2006, 04:56 PM

footstepsfrom#27

09-17-2006, 05:03 PM

If we started Cutler we'd have to dumb down the offense by taking out half the playbook, plus we'd be seeing a guy throwing into double coverage, making poor reads, and lots of mistakes.

Oh wait...

Bronx33

09-17-2006, 05:06 PM

yerner

09-17-2006, 05:10 PM

honestly, how much can we lose by starting cutler? I never thought i would be saying that, but really, im sure he can miss open recievers as well as plummer. Rod will bitch cause he knows this is his last hooray, but why not start the transition? it looks like we're gonna have to win with defense either way. does plummer really give us a better chance? big game, you know he's gonna fold unless the defense and run game win it. i can't believe im saying i'm not so sure.

Turf Shaman

09-17-2006, 05:20 PM

Well, if Plummer hypothetically keeps playing like he has been, I'd certainly wouldn't be crying foul if Cutler was given the keys. I'm not calling for it yet, but I will say that I'm fighting the urge to start looking ahead to '07.

But it should be noted that Plummer wasn't looking that sparkling after week 2 last season.

broncolife

09-17-2006, 05:25 PM

fdf

09-17-2006, 05:34 PM

honestly, how much can we lose by starting cutler? I never thought i would be saying that, but really, im sure he can miss open recievers as well as plummer. Rod will b**** cause he knows this is his last hooray, but why not start the transition? it looks like we're gonna have to win with defense either way. does plummer really give us a better chance? big game, you know he's gonna fold unless the defense and run game win it. i can't believe im saying i'm not so sure.

We sucked (including Jake) for the first two games last season. Won the second by a miracle, lost the first badly, and still had a good season. I would wait to toss the season down the tubes.

The two big problems I see out there are: (1) Playcalling. We miss Kubiak and there is going to be a longer adjustment period than I would have hoped; (2) Smith isn't getting open like he did last year so we are still one-dimensional in the passing game.

The big plus is the defense. It will be interesting to see how they fare against a good team next week. So far, we haven't played a decent offense.

theAPAOps5

09-17-2006, 05:41 PM

If we started Cutler we'd have to dumb down the offense by taking out half the playbook, plus we'd be seeing a guy throwing into double coverage, making poor reads, and lots of mistakes.

Oh wait...

True but Plummer does bounce back when he makes those mistakes, he is good at letting things go I'll give him that. Put cutler in and you risk the chance of losing confidence and never getting it back. Its easy to crush a rookies spirit. Jake is a veteran who can take the boos and doubters. I say let Cutler watch, let him see what Plummer did wrong go through the tape and point out why things happen and wait. He will be a stud but I want him to avoid the Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, or Bolinger syndrome.

Rigs11

09-17-2006, 05:47 PM

This team remimds me off the CU Buffs. Great defense but shoddy Offense. Why? The receivers never get open.

epicSocialism4tw

09-17-2006, 05:58 PM

Disclaimer or not, this is still thread number 5,443,332,211,000 on this subject.

footstepsfrom#27

09-17-2006, 06:02 PM

True but Plummer does bounce back when he makes those mistakes, he is good at letting things go I'll give him that. Put cutler in and you risk the chance of losing confidence and never getting it back. Its easy to crush a rookies spirit. Jake is a veteran who can take the boos and doubters. I say let Cutler watch, let him see what Plummer did wrong go through the tape and point out why things happen and wait. He will be a stud but I want him to avoid the Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, or Bolinger syndrome.
Whent the best argument for starting Jake is that we're trying to protect Cutler, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement for Plummmer. The list of rookie QB's who have survived starting in the NFL to become solid pros is probably longer than than the list of notable failures. Cutler got the crap pounded out of hiim for 4 years...and my best argument for starting Plummer comes down to the fact that I'd like to give Jay's body a chance to rest.

As I said...not exactly a ringing endorsement for Jake huh?

NFLBRONCO

09-17-2006, 06:04 PM

Did you hear announcers say Mike thought he put too much stuff into last weeks gameplan for Jake. I was thinking WTF he is a 10 yr vet.

bombquixote

09-17-2006, 06:17 PM

Whent the best argument for starting Jake is that we're trying to protect Cutler, that's not exactly a ringing endorsement for Plummmer. The list of rookie QB's who have survived starting in the NFL to become solid pros is probably longer than than the list of notable failures. Cutler got the crap pounded out of hiim for 4 years...and my best argument for starting Plummer comes down to the fact that I'd like to give Jay's body a chance to rest.

As I said...not exactly a ringing endorsement for Jake huh?

The best argument for keeping Jake at the helm is that he WINS GAMES. His record in Denver is outstanding. And he just won another. He stays the starter because right now he gives Denver the best chance to win.

If, after say 8 games, our season is completely down the tubes, then okay, lets start developing the rook. But to start him now would be idiotic.

TheDave

09-17-2006, 06:19 PM

Problem is Jake isn't helping himself or the team right now. IMO, the first loss was mostly on his shoulders. Todays performance was much more of a team effort, but............

16/30 173yards 0 TD's 1 INT 5.8 yrds per pass and a 56.7 QB rating just isn't going to get it done.

Something needs to change quickly!

Ballhawk

09-17-2006, 06:28 PM

I agree with you. If receivers aren't getting open right now, I don't see why they would with Cutler at QB. In fact, right now, with the way the offense is playing, I could see Cutler throwing a lot of picks and forcing into coverage. People want Cutler to develop bad habits? I sure don't.

The same bad habits Smith developed playing in SF last year? He has looked very good after 2 games.

If I thought that Plummer even had the slightest chance of leading us to a SB, I would say leave Cutler on the bench. 8 qrts:1 TD.

Maybe it is like last year where he sucked game one, was saved by the D game two, and will wake up game three. This was a game for him to get healthy...oh well we will see.

BABronco

09-17-2006, 06:33 PM

Northman

09-17-2006, 06:34 PM

True but Plummer does bounce back when he makes those mistakes, he is good at letting things go I'll give him that. Put cutler in and you risk the chance of losing confidence and never getting it back. Its easy to crush a rookies spirit. Jake is a veteran who can take the boos and doubters. I say let Cutler watch, let him see what Plummer did wrong go through the tape and point out why things happen and wait. He will be a stud but I want him to avoid the Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, or Bolinger syndrome.

It might crush most rookies spirits but not all of them. I havent seen anything but confidence coming from Cutler. He also knows he will have bad games so it isnt like Jay thinks he will sparkle every game right away. The ideal thing is too let Jay sit and observe but if Jake keeps struggling with the offense and if we start losing games than i would have no problem putting Cutler in to get his feet wet.

elsid13

09-17-2006, 06:40 PM

If Cutler's sprit wasn't crushed at Vandy, do you think he going to be crushed now??? Compared to what he had to work as offense line in college he might feel like he has all the time in the world behind the current line.

The offense gets out a funk when Plummer completes some deep pass from the pocket to force Defenses to play honest

Rascal

09-17-2006, 06:45 PM

This team remimds me off the CU Buffs. Great defense but shoddy Offense. Why? The receivers never get open.

Quotted for truth.

It makes no difference who the QB is if the WR's don't get open. And today they did not get open. You can't blame Jake for that.

watermock

09-17-2006, 06:46 PM

I'ts a miracle we won the game.

footstepsfrom#27

09-17-2006, 06:53 PM

The best argument for keeping Jake at the helm is that he WINS GAMES. His record in Denver is outstanding. And he just won another. He stays the starter because right now he gives Denver the best chance to win.

If, after say 8 games, our season is completely down the tubes, then okay, lets start developing the rook. But to start him now would be idiotic.
The list of idiots joining the chorus for Cutler to start now includes Jimmy Johnson, who today said he thinks Jake should "get about another week and a half". But what does he know? Oh...right. He started Aikman as a rookie and we know that obviously proved to be a fatal mistake.

baja

09-17-2006, 07:22 PM

Teams sellout to stop the run because they know Jake can not beat them with the pass. It will be a long season now that the first two games will be available to our opponents.

Hercules Rockefeller

09-17-2006, 07:31 PM

This team remimds me off the CU Buffs. Great defense but shoddy Offense. Why? The receivers never get open.

I don't know what they showed on TV, but the WRs and TEs were getting open pretty consistently today. One play that comes to mind is a pass on 3rd down to Alexander in the first half. SA ended up 2-3 yds short of the 1st down, when all Jake had to do was look to his left (and his head wouldn't have had to turn very far, SA was lined up next to Foster and TB went out of the backefield between TN and CC), and the only player within 10 yds of Tatum was moving away from him.

Kaylore

09-17-2006, 07:40 PM

I still think Cutler could do what Plummer has done thus far. I also think that guys like Ryan Leaf and Tim Couch sucked because they sucked at football and not because they "started too quickly".

I think Plummer will play better from here on out, but I suspect that Shanahan will be starting to get the itch by week eight.

It all depends on how we look these next two games. Patriots and Ravens are both games we could very well lose.

Taco John

09-17-2006, 07:50 PM

I think starting Plummer is not only throwing away the season, but spinning our wheels...

BroncoSoja

09-17-2006, 08:00 PM

Arkansas Bronco

09-17-2006, 08:01 PM

Before today I never could look at it I wanted Jay to ride the bench all year and get abit seasoned but man plummer looks worse then I have ever seen him. The off. plays like ****, the play action doesnt work because neither our rush or our passing game is working. As of right now I think teams are going to be happy when we back up to pass. Every time today when plummer threw the ball my first reaction was "Oh S***". Now I am up in the air. I already knew that plummer wasnt the answer but he has totaly fell apart since we drafted a guy he knows he cant beat out. I know we have the weapons and the coaching to get into the play-offs but as of now the season looks bleak.

ClevelandBronco

09-17-2006, 08:06 PM

I'ts a miracle we won the game.

I think it would have been a miracle if the Chiefs had won the game.

It was still a minor miracle that the Chiefs kept it as close as they did.

ClevelandBronco

09-17-2006, 08:08 PM

I think starting Plummer is not only throwing away the season, but spinning our wheels...

And the way the rest of the offense is playing we're likely to get Jay killed if we put him out there.

maher_tyler

09-17-2006, 08:13 PM

NFLBRONCO

09-17-2006, 08:14 PM

Denver will see the same stuff until we adjust and make them pay. Throwing 1 yd passes really scares opposing D's NOT.

Taco John

09-17-2006, 08:14 PM

And the way the rest of the offense is playing we're likely to get Jay killed if we put him out there.

I just don't buy that... I've heard from several people who were at the game today that they saw several guys open that Jake apparently didn't see. I think that if we put Jay in, we might actually start scoring some touchdowns again.

Sir Mawn

09-17-2006, 08:15 PM

I used to be on Jake's side. Now I'm in the middle. Stay tuned....

ClevelandBronco

09-17-2006, 08:16 PM

Can he play any worse

Playing worse has only been attempted by Raiders quarterbacks. With considerable success, I might add.

Ballhawk

09-17-2006, 08:21 PM

TJ on ESPN, said that Rookies not being able to win is a misconception and just depends on the team around them.

BroncoSoja

09-17-2006, 08:27 PM

I used to be on Jake's side. Now I'm in the middle. Stay tuned....

I have a feeling that by this time next week you will be all aboard the Cutler wagon..

Hulamau

09-17-2006, 08:34 PM

Teams sellout to stop the run because they know Jake can not beat them with the pass. It will be a long season now that the first two games will be available to our opponents.

That's the truth Baja and we've got Belichek and Billick coming up next, whose defensive coordinators are probably licking their chops over our films of our first two game on offense.

Our defense will be going against better defenses too. At leat we get two weeks to prepare for the Ravens.

Jake made a few nice pass in two of the last three drives today, but that was about it as far as highlights from our QB. No way on earth we are going anywhere unless both Jake and the rest of the offense gets some kind of rhythmn going.

Its also clear with this set of RBs we will need to pass this year to set up the run against better defenses, which isnt exactly Jake's comfort zone.

At least we've got Chokeland and Cleveland coming up before too long ... and take heart, Washington is 0-2 and heading toward a real stinker of a season so we may get a realy high draft choice .... or two :-)!

Ron Mexico

09-17-2006, 08:38 PM

honestly, how much can we lose by starting cutler? I never thought i would be saying that, but really, im sure he can miss open recievers as well as plummer. Rod will b**** cause he knows this is his last hooray, but why not start the transition? it looks like we're gonna have to win with defense either way. does plummer really give us a better chance? big game, you know he's gonna fold unless the defense and run game win it. i can't believe im saying i'm not so sure.

You are right except Rod wouldn't complain. Aside from not being his nature, a QB that would not lock on Rod all the time would make it easier for him to get open. Right now, every team in the league knows that you only have to cover Rod on 3rd down when playing the Broncos. When Rod left the game today, Jake discovered some other receivers and actually sustained a drive or two. That's not Rod's fault - it's Jake. I believe 3 out of 4 INTs this year have been forced passes to Rod.

footstepsfrom#27

09-17-2006, 08:39 PM

I posted months ago that we shouldn't be suprised if Shanny goes with Jay sometime during the season because he went with Griese when he had only 2 years of college and 3 NFL passes. I've moved from thinking it might happen to thinking it will happen if we get beat the next 2 games and look as pathetic against good defenses as we have against bad ones. I'm on the verge of joining the "start Jay" bandwagon instead of just thinking Shanny might do it.

We're averaging 9.5 pts a game. Next game is the key game; if we can somehow beat NE we have a real shot at another top flight season. If we tank it and look as bad as we have, no way we beat Baltimore either...and that's the point I'll start taking bets on when Jake gets the hook.

Hulamau

09-17-2006, 09:25 PM

I just don't buy that... I've heard from several people who were at the game today that they saw several guys open that Jake apparently didn't see. I think that if we put Jay in, we might actually start scoring some touchdowns again.

It amazing the diffnerce a few tight spirals for TDs can make on a whole teams energy!

Look at the Ravens ... they got their D healthy this year and now finally have a pretty decent QB who can at least move the chains and the whole team looks 5 years younger with so much more energy and drive off the ball!

Whether Jake can pull it off (as I still have the slimmest 'pie in the sky' hope), or if we have to wait for Jay to start, once our QB can thread a few needles, nail a long TD in stride or two, and after marching down field can zip in a couple of solid Red Zone TDs, it will be like a night and day transformation running through the whole team and even our defense, who is keeping the entire ship from sinking so far, would play even tougher and be even more dominant.

So much of football runs on pure emotion and confidence and none of the guys can be thrilled about a tight 3 point game in the fourth quarter with Jake calling the shots, regardless of what kind of politically correct happy face they put on for the media.

If Jake can get it done these next two games against tough competition, Fabulous! If so then Jake will likely keep the job the rest of the year. If not, Plummer is holding the clipboard before November.

I could see Shanny still keeping Jake in there a few weeks longer after he makes the defacto decision to bench him if he is sure we arent going anywhere, though, just to give Jay a few more weeks of aborbing defenses, and yes getting a better draft status at a time when the rest of our team has only a few holes to fill and we could make some huge strides next year with a few more solid picks.

If winning it all appears shot after the next couple of games, I could still see Jake playing against likes of the Ravens, Steelers and Indy in the fist 8 games to afford Jay the luxury of not having his very first few games going against the best teams in the league.

In short, within the next month we are either still going to be focussed on winning the whole enchilada with Jake, or the goals for this season will likely take a VERY different course.

footstepsfrom#27

09-17-2006, 09:31 PM

It amazing the diffnerce a few tight spirals for TDs can make on a whole teams energy!

Look at the Ravens ... they got their D healthy this year and now finally have a pretty decent QB who can at least move the chains and the whole team looks 5 years younger with so much more energy and drive off the ball!

Whether Jake can pull it off (as I still have the slimmest 'pie in the sky' hope), or if we have to wait for Jay to start, once our QB can thread a few needles, nail a long TD in stride or two, and after marching down field can zip in a couple of solid Red Zone TDs, it will be like a night and day transformation running through the whole team and even our defense, who is keeping the entire ship from sinking so far, would play even tougher and be even more dominant.

So much of football runs on pure emotion and confidence and none of the guys can be thrilled about a tight 3 point game in the fourth quarter with Jake calling the shots, regardless of what kind of politically correct happy face they put on for the media.

If Jake can get it done these next two games against tough competition, Fabulous! If so then Jake will likely keep the job the rest of the year. If not, Plummer is holding the clipboard before November.

I could see Shanny still keeping Jake in there a few weeks longer after he makes the defacto decision to bench him if he is sure we arent going anywhere, though, just to give Jay a few more weeks of aborbing defenses, and yes getting a better draft status at a time when the rest of our team has only a few holes to fill and we could make some huge strides next year with a few more solid picks.

If winning it all appears shot after the next couple of games, I could still see Jake playing against likes of the Ravens, Steelers and Indy in the fist 8 games to afford Jay the luxury of not having his very first few games going against the best teams in the league.

In short, within the next month we are either still going to be focussed on winning the whole enchilada with Jake, or the goals for this season will likely take a VERY different course.
Rep.

TheChamp24

09-17-2006, 09:47 PM

For everyone who said the WRs weren't getting open, they were open. I was at the game and Plummer missed guys. Like someone mentioned, Jake decides to throw a 2 yard pass 3 yards short to Alexander with 2 defenders nearby when Tatum was WIDE open at the 30 in the middle of the field.
Plus, SEVERAL bad passes. Underthrew Rod twice, threw a terrible pass on an out intended for Rod. And he does not know how much touch to put on a ball.
I will say this though, the playcalling was suspect. We ran a lot of the same plays it seemed. Back to back reverses, that were practically the same play for instance. Plus the Shotgun pitch to the RB to the left. Where was the PA btw? And it would be nice to see a QB audible out of a run when the defense has 9 guys in the box.

Taco John

09-17-2006, 10:00 PM

The playcalling was suspect because the signalcaller was choking. Shanahan finally gave up on the passing game and did what he could to be creative with the running game. Once our offense started to show some confidence there, he put the ball back into Jake's hands where he failed miserably on two endzone touch-passes.

It wasn't until Rod went out, and Jake was forced into thinking about other receivers that he managed to step up and make things happen. Was very sorry to see Rod being paid back for calling the fans moron by being hung out to dry twice by Jake. Also sad to see Jake's callow attitude for the fans rubbing off on the leaders of this team. These fans have been way too good to Rod for him to go out slinging stuff like that at the fans who just want to see him go out with another trophy.

TheDave

09-17-2006, 10:00 PM

And it would be nice to see a QB audible out of a run when the defense has 9 guys in the box.

This is something i have been wondering also... When thee line is stacked up the middle why are we not changing the play?

Last week against the Rams was he most frustrated i've been in a long time. Nearly every down they would overload the rush to one side or the other... everytime we ran the same play called in the huddle. Not much sense in having a 10 year vet at QB when he doesn't make some adjustments at the line.

SoCalBronco

09-17-2006, 10:04 PM

no way we beat Baltimore either

Agreed.

We would have an extremely difficult time with that team even if they were sucking. The fact that they are hitting on all cylinders just seals it.

freak6

09-17-2006, 10:27 PM

epicSocialism4tw

09-17-2006, 10:30 PM

Jay looked like Magnificent 7 on that scramble and on that bootleg bomb to Kircus.

ZONA

09-17-2006, 10:38 PM

I wouldn't say our receivers were open alot but there were many occasions where Plummer either missed wide open guys (such as TE in the endzone) by a mile or he could not make the throw. Jake certainly didn't play as bad as last week but at this rate of improvement, it's going to take 5 more games to get any where close to playing good, we might as well start Culter.

Either way, this offense is pitiful right now. We lost to the Rams and everbody said they're better then everybody thinks, then they get whomped by the 49'ers today. Okay, it must have totally been our stinking offense. So, we get to play the crappy Chiefs D. Okay, how many people are gonna say their denfese is better, until next week when they get worked by some average offense. That will shine a bright light on our offense and how bad we've been.

freak6

09-17-2006, 10:38 PM

Jay looked like Magnificent 7 on that scramble and on that bootleg bomb to Kircus.

It wasn't a bomb, it was a "friggin laser"!!! For real, that throw was 56 yards and probably didn't get to high off the ground. Jake throws that pass it is intercepted because it would have hung in the air long enough for the DT to run under it, signal a fair catch, finish a hot dog, and make the catch without losing his breath.

Hulamau

09-17-2006, 10:47 PM

I tell you folks, I was cautiously optimistic and confident Jake would really bounce back today with a solid game, and to see what happened, even factoring in the improved KC defense which only got better the more we stunk it up until Rod went out and the play book flew open a bit making KC look more liek the old KC, left an air of disappointment lingering over the joy of winning the game, and confirms why this year is almost certainly Jake's swan song in Denver.

I think its got to be a combination of the pressure of having a raw but seriously more talented QB looking over his shoulder, knowing that no matter what he does, outside of winning 16 games and the SB, that he's a lame duck which can't be easy for anyone, and the fact that he likely did peak last year and that that peak was exaggerated by the careful tailoring (dumbing down?) of our offense to allow him to better manage those games to begin with.

That combo of better play by Jake, under the directive to protect the ball at all cost (greatly facilitated by game plans to make that possible) caught most of the NFL a bit off guard last year.

And that success bolstered the teams (and the fans) confidence, further making for better play in all phases of the game even if it was, to some degree, a bit of a smoke and mirrors job.

Pittsburg demonstratively popped that bubble and laid the blueprint for others on both sides of the ball by forcing Jake to beat them with his arm. So far, two very much lessor teams than the Steelers have followed that plan to a 'T' with the outcome today being different only because our defense has improved in reponse to that Pittsburg game (while Jake's side of the ball has gone backwards), and because of KCs lack of any credible passing attack.

I suspect we can still beat the majority of our schedule with some variant of the same formula, but none of it is going to come by surprise this year and Jake is going to be more frequently forced to win games through the air, or we will likely llose some of the games we would have won last year.

Whether he can pull that rabbit out of the hat with his arm is the $64,000 question!

Nevertheless, a win is a win and its a damn site better than the alternative we were so close to experiencing. As such, Jake does deserve some credit for not folding after that late INT and making a couple of nice passes in the end .

Circle Orange

09-17-2006, 10:51 PM

Disclaimer or not, this is still thread number 5,443,332,211,000 on this subject.

LOL, when it gets to 33,999,999,999,999,999,999 shout TILT!! ROFL!

BroncoSoja

09-17-2006, 10:53 PM

It wasn't a bomb, it was a "friggin laser"!!! For real, that throw was 56 yards and probably didn't get to high off the ground. Jake throws that pass it is intercepted because it would have hung in the air long enough for the DT to run under it, signal a fair catch, finish a hot dog, and make the catch without losing his breath.

Hilarious!

DomCasual

09-17-2006, 10:58 PM

It's a chicken or the egg scenario.

Would Plummer have sucked this bad if he wasn't subconsciously "looking over his shoulder" at Cutler? But then again, if Plummer was the long-term answer, we would probably be watching him hand off to Lawrence Maroney these last two games.

I still strongly believe that Shanahan needs to publicly and privately throw his lot with Plummer for the year. In his weekly press conference this week, he says something to the effect of, "Look guys, I understand that you want to write about a quarterback controversy, but there is nothing, save an injury, that will make me start Jay Cutler this year."

Plummer was good enough last year to get us to the AFC Championship game, and he didn't take dumb pills in the offseason. So, his performance for the first two games is a result of either:

A) An aberration;
B) the loss of Kubiak; or
C) the pressure from having Cutler here.

If it's A or B, then benching him won't do much good. If it's C, then it can hopefully fixed with a little first aid to his confidence.