Denver's Passing Attack . . .

[Cito Pelon]

An observation, and a question:

Some NFL passing attacks I notice - often, but not all the time - the receivers will sprint to an open spot, stop and wait for the QB to hit them. NE and Pitt seem to do this a lot. Their receivers will often just head for the biggest opening they see while looking back at the QB and wait for the ball. Denver doesn't seem to do that. On the contrary, I'll see Denver receivers stick with their patterns no matter if there are 2 defenders right in their path.

My question is: Does Denver's passing attack allow the receiver to just head an open spot if he sees one and I am just missing it; or is Denver's passing attack so regimented an inaccurate QB like Jake will never be able to get the passing O clicking?

[Sodak]

My understanding is that the West Coast Offense, or the version that Denver runs especially, depends on timing and the receivers running accurate routes where the QB can deliver the ball in anticipation of the receiver arriving at the very spot the ball is thrown to simultaneously. It seems that the whole O would need to be in synch, and rythm to work efficiently. Starting with the O line and everybody else. This makes sense really, especially considering the speed of today's DB, and LB's.

I doubt if NE or Pitt have the receiver go to an open spot to wait. That sounds more like a team improvising on a broken play rather than something planned. That's just my opinon, I could be wrong...

[ZachKC]

What was Walker's deal last week? Didn't see any of your game...no seperation? Or did he have the dropsies?

[LonghornBronco]

He droped at least one sure touchdown

[BroncoSoja]

Yeah I notice this as well Cito Peon, it seems like no matter what the defense is in (Zone, Man to Man, etc) our WR's will run the route. Does'nt matter if the route will play into the defense's strength or if it exposes the weakness, we will still run the route, unless of course the route is finished and the WR then has to improvise.

When you look at other teams there WR's will find a spot in the zone (if that is called) and will sit in it. I dunno maybe the others teams QB see's what the defense has called and changes the play at the line to expose what he see's? After all it has been a long time since we have had a QB here that can do that. Thats no knock on PlummINT this time, Bubby and Greaseball could'nt get the job done either in that department.

[elsid13]

What was Walker's deal last week? Didn't see any of your game...no seperation? Or did he have the dropsies?

Rust. He had couple of opportunities to make big plays when the ball hit him in the hands and bounced off. When timing comes along Denver passing attack will be better then last year.

[Cito Pelon]

My understanding is that the West Coast Offense, or the version that Denver runs especially, depends on timing and the receivers running accurate routes where the QB can deliver the ball in anticipation of the receiver arriving at the very spot the ball is thrown to simultaneously. It seems that the whole O would need to be in synch, and rythm to work efficiently. Starting with the O line and everybody else. This makes sense really, especially considering the speed of today's DB, and LB's.

I doubt if NE or Pitt have the receiver go to an open spot to wait. That sounds more like a team improvising on a broken play rather than something planned. That's just my opinon, I could be wrong...

The Denver passing O seems like it must be the WCO where it's timing and accuracy. Trouble is Jake isn't suited to that - seems to me. So I'm wondering why the genius Shanahan keeps trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You say NE and Pitt don't have the receiver go to an open spot and wait. I've seen them do that many a time. Seems to me Pitt did that quite a bit right here in Mile High last year, and Roth just waited til they turned their heads and let the ball go. I'm not saying that's exclusively their passing O, I'm saying Denver should try that.

[riiiiick]

What was Walker's deal last week? Didn't see any of your game...no seperation? Or did he have the dropsies?

i saw no seperation for anyone, except devoe on the pic. watching other games, like indy, it seems manning has 3 or 4 feet of protection behind his line and the recievers roam free. maybe it just seems that way, but ours seem to have guys all over them and fighting for every catch?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Walker dropped like 4 passes.

[Sodak]

The Denver passing O seems like it must be the WCO where it's timing and accuracy. Trouble is Jake isn't suited to that - seems to me. So I'm wondering why the genius Shanahan keeps trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You say NE and Pitt don't have the receiver go to an open spot and wait. I've seen them do that many a time. Seems to me Pitt did that quite a bit right here in Mile High last year, and Roth just waited til they turned their heads and let the ball go. I'm not saying that's exclusively their passing O, I'm saying Denver should try that.


Ahhh, yes. What I meant to say is I don't think NE or Pitt ever intend for the receiver to go to an open spot to wait unless the play is broken down or taking longer than expected. Last week Jake didn't have time to get his head up, let alone make his reads, and progressions. I think their pass protection helps Big Ben and Tom Brady sit to make the throws.

I think Cutler will be a huge improvement NEXT YEAR because he has a much quicker release, and better accuracy in the long and short, throws with velocity, or with touch, and has the arm strength to make all of the throws needed. He needs to learn how to look off his receivers better though.

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . When timing comes along Denver passing attack will be better then last year.

I sure hope so. I'm getting pretty sick and tired of a stuttering and stammering passing O. I don't think Denver's O-line and QB are suited to a timing passing O. Again, I asked the original question about the Den passing O because I don't really know if they let one reciever just head to an open spot if the prescribed routes are covered.

I think they should, because there are some holes to exploit, and I think Jake sees them, but the receivers don't - or are not allowed to - go for them.

[elsid13]

The Denver passing O seems like it must be the WCO where it's timing and accuracy. Trouble is Jake isn't suited to that - seems to me. So I'm wondering why the genius Shanahan keeps trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

You say NE and Pitt don't have the receiver go to an open spot and wait. I've seen them do that many a time. Seems to me Pitt did that quite a bit right here in Mile High last year, and Roth just waited til they turned their heads and let the ball go. I'm not saying that's exclusively their passing O, I'm saying Denver should try that.

Denver does run a version of the WCO, which based upon short route and ball control. Shanahan twist to yet is the power running game that he use. Plus there are several formation that are used/not used in the SF traditional WCO. Denver doesn't run a split back field, but use the power I and Shotgun that aren't used by Walsh. In theory it should suit Plummer because he doesn't need to hold on to the ball allowing the WR to go deep.

And what you are seeing in Pitt and NE are WR sitting in zone. Denver players do it to. Smith first catch last week was him in dead spot in zone.

[Taco John]

My question is: Does Denver's passing attack allow the receiver to just head an open spot if he sees one and I am just missing it; or is Denver's passing attack so regimented an inaccurate QB like Jake will never be able to get the passing O clicking?


We run timing routes... And the philosophy when our full offense is implemented is that the quarterback never needs to check to an audible because if he goes through his progressions correctly, someone will always be open... We don't hear that nearly as much anymore (the someone will always be open part) because we haven't been able to use our full offense in awhile...

As I understand it, all the audibles are made not by the quarterback, but by the recievers, who check into different routes based on what the defense is showing them. The quarterback and the receiver have to be on the same page, making the same read on the defense. Sometimes the receiver needs to stick with a route and draw coverage away from somewhere else though. They can't all run into open space.

The criticism that Shanahan is trying to fit a square peg (Jake) into a round hole (our offense) is only as valid as you think Jake is capable of winning on any team across the league. As far as I'm concerned, he's a caretaker, and the reason we're not changing our offense for him is because Shanahan has wanted to plug and play the real deal in when he finally came across him without having to re-teach his offense to the entire crew year after year based on who he's got under center and lose that continuity. Shanahan's winning percentage over the long haul speaks volumes about the approach.

Shanahan has dummied it down as much as possible for Jake, taking away the need for Jake to make too many decisions, but with competition on the roster, there's been talk this offseason of "opening things up." Presumably because there's confidence that Jake can handle it... and if not, there's someone behind him who can come in and start the learning process.

[Sodak]

Think about Griese and the dink and dunk. That'll make you feel better about Jake...::)

[Sodak]

(Jake) he's a caretaker, and the reason we're not changing our offense for him is because Shanahan has wanted to plug and play the real deal in when he finally came across him without having to re-teach his offense to the entire crew year after year based on who he's got under center and lose that continuity.


That also really makes sense if the backup QB needs to come in.

[Cito Pelon]

Denver does run a version of the WCO, which based upon short route and ball control. Shanahan twist to yet is the power running game that he use. Plus there are several formation that are used/not used in the SF traditional WCO. Denver doesn't run a split back field, but use the power I and Shotgun that aren't used by Walsh. In theory it should suit Plummer because he doesn't need to hold on to the ball allowing the WR to go deep.

And what you are seeing in Pitt and NE are WR sitting in zone. Denver players do it to. Smith first catch last week was him in dead spot in zone.

Denver needs to do that with more than just Rod if they want Plummer to be more efffective, IMO. There's many times Rod is on a short route and double-covered, and the whole middle of the field is wide open, but I'll see a deeper receiver keeping a DB on his hip while he could run straight back to Jake for a nice first down. And I think Jake is waiting for it too. So why isn't this happening?

[Cito Pelon]

We run timing routes... And the philosophy when our full offense is implemented is that the quarterback never needs to check to an audible because if he goes through his progressions correctly, someone will always be open... We don't hear that nearly as much anymore (the someone will always be open part) because we haven't been able to use our full offense in awhile...

As I understand it, all the audibles are made not by the quarterback, but by the recievers, who check into different routes based on what the defense is showing them. The quarterback and the receiver have to be on the same page, making the same read on the defense. Sometimes the receiver needs to stick with a route and draw coverage away from somewhere else though. They can't all run into open space.

The criticism that Shanahan is trying to fit a square peg (Jake) into a round hole (our offense) is only as valid as you think Jake is capable of winning on any team across the league. As far as I'm concerned, he's a caretaker, and the reason we're not changing our offense for him is because Shanahan has wanted to plug and play the real deal in when he finally came across him without having to re-teach his offense to the entire crew year after year based on who he's got under center and lose that continuity. Shanahan's winning percentage over the long haul speaks volumes about the approach.

Shanahan has dummied it down as much as possible for Jake, taking away the need for Jake to make too many decisions, but with competition on the roster, there's been talk this offseason of "opening things up." Presumably because there's confidence that Jake can handle it... and if not, there's someone behind him who can come in and start the learning process.

Seems like that is a problem - receivers running right smack-dab into double coverage.

[Taco John]

How much more effective do you honestly think SHanahan can make Plummer? I can't understand the blame Shanahan for Plummer's ineffectiveness point of view.

We have a superbowl calibre coach with a Superbowl calibre offense when it's running to its potential. We're not going to throw away that offense to suit the needs of a second tier quarterback, when we can just dumb it down and roll for 13 wins.

[Taco John]

Seems like that is a problem - receivers running right smack-dab into double coverage.

I don't think the problem is that receivers are being double covered. I think the problem is that double covered receivers are being thrown to.

[55CrushEm]

My understanding is that the West Coast Offense, or the version that Denver runs especially, depends on timing and the receivers running accurate routes where the QB can deliver the ball in anticipation of the receiver arriving at the very spot the ball is thrown to simultaneously.

Well, in that case, we'd need our starting QB to have an ACCURATE arm for the system to work......oh well.

[Cito Pelon]

How much more effective do you honestly think SHanahan can make Plummer? I can't understand the blame Shanahan for Plummer's ineffectiveness point of view.

We have a superbowl calibre coach with a Superbowl calibre offense when it's running to its potential. We're not going to throw away that offense to suit the needs of a second tier quarterback, when we can just dumb it down and roll for 13 wins.

That's the question I'm asking. If Shanny wants to win an SB with Jake, he's going to have to get more out of the passing game with Jake. Hence my observations that other teams abuse zones better than Denver does.

[elsid13]

Why am I waiting for Popps to come in and blame TJ for this thread.

For what ever reason I think Shanahan and Dinger are going to have to limit Plummer reads again to half the field. IF X and Z receiver are covered either throw it away or run with it.

[Taco John]

That's the question I'm asking. If Shanny wants to win an SB with Jake, he's going to have to get more out of the passing game with Jake. Hence my observations that other teams abuse zones better than Denver does.


How can he get more out of the passing game when he has to limit the offense in order to keep the turnovers down?

[Cito Pelon]

How can he get more out of the passing game when he has to limit the offense in order to keep the turnovers down?

He hasn't limited the offense all that much. "It's the most complicated offense in the NFL", right? What was it before he dumbed it down?

[elsid13]

He hasn't limited the offense all that much. "It's the most complicated offense in the NFL", right? What was it before he dumbed it down?

that not actually true, What he did in the past was limit the reads for Plummer to one side of the field.

[anthonypacino]

An observation, and a question:

Some NFL passing attacks I notice - often, but not all the time - the receivers will sprint to an open spot, stop and wait for the QB to hit them. NE and Pitt seem to do this a lot. Their receivers will often just head for the biggest opening they see while looking back at the QB and wait for the ball. Denver doesn't seem to do that. On the contrary, I'll see Denver receivers stick with their patterns no matter if there are 2 defenders right in their path.

My question is: Does Denver's passing attack allow the receiver to just head an open spot if he sees one and I am just missing it; or is Denver's passing attack so regimented an inaccurate QB like Jake will never be able to get the passing O clicking?

Sodak is right, the version of the West Coast passing game Denver uses is based on timing routes and option routes based on coverages, the Pats and some other teams use more of a Zone passing game where the recievers will run to spots in the zone that are open or soft.
Sometimes when you see the Broncos stick to their routes it's for a reason...not everyone running a pattern is supposed to get "open" depending on the coverage, sometimes it's to help open another route or area of the field or to set up downfield blocking after the primary has got the ball.
The Zone scheme mostly tries to get everyone running the route open, lots of checks and progression to read

[BroncoFiend]

He droped at least one sure touchdown

Yes he dropped it, my problem with everyone's criticism of him however is that he had to make a fantastic play to even be in position to possibly make that catch.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have caught it, but it wasn't like he was standing in the endzone with no one around.

[Taco John]

He hasn't limited the offense all that much.


Well, that goes against everything I read and heard last season. And from what I was seeing from my limited vantage point, it looked like Jake would make two reads and throw the ball away if it wasn't there. One thing you didn't see Jake do a lot last season is throw across his body.

[Cito Pelon]

that not actually true, What he did in the past was limit the reads for Plummer to one side of the field.

Are you talking about the roll-outs? That started with Elway.

[anthonypacino]

Are you talking about the roll-outs? That started with Elway.

no, not really Shanny will have him only throw to one side of the field...the QB can completly ignore the other side except for the pre-snap read to call a protection if the QB see's a blitz coming from that direction.

[Cito Pelon]

Sodak is right, the version of the West Coast passing game Denver uses is based on timing routes and option routes based on coverages, the Pats and some other teams use more of a Zone passing game where the recievers will run to spots in the zone that are open or soft.
Sometimes when you see the Broncos stick to their routes it's for a reason...not everyone running a pattern is supposed to get "open" depending on the coverage, sometimes it's to help open another route or area of the field or to set up downfield blocking after the primary has got the ball.
The Zone scheme mostly tries to get everyone running the route open, lots of checks and progression to read

Ok, thanks. I'll make another observation and ask another question, maybe you can help me out a little more:

Denver's passing O doesn't seem to make much happen in the middle of the field beyond real short stuff. Why in the hell is that? Drives me nuts.

[Northman]

An observation, and a question:

Some NFL passing attacks I notice - often, but not all the time - the receivers will sprint to an open spot, stop and wait for the QB to hit them. NE and Pitt seem to do this a lot. Their receivers will often just head for the biggest opening they see while looking back at the QB and wait for the ball. Denver doesn't seem to do that. On the contrary, I'll see Denver receivers stick with their patterns no matter if there are 2 defenders right in their path.

My question is: Does Denver's passing attack allow the receiver to just head an open spot if he sees one and I am just missing it; or is Denver's passing attack so regimented an inaccurate QB like Jake will never be able to get the passing O clicking?


Denver doesnt have a passing attack. A passing attack consists of precision and knowing where and when to call audibles for mismatches. Jake is using a very basic playbook and his success falls squarely on the running game.

[anthonypacino]

Ok, thanks. I'll make another observation and ask another question, maybe you can help me out a little more:

Denver's passing O doesn't seem to make much happen in the middle of the field beyond real short stuff. Why in the hell is that? Drives me nuts.

One reason is that when a team runs a 2-deep zone, it allows a hole in the middle of the field, Denver throws to the TE's quite a bit (we don't have a blocker among them cept maybe Mustard) so if a D runs that they know Denver has the personel to exploit it's weakness, and due to the fact that we are a run first team, most teams won't run the 2-deep alot against us, one of the safties most likely stays or creeps up into the second level (where the LB's roam) for run support since most LB's are taught to follow the guards and we have the cutback run style so if the LB's overpursue then the saftey will be there, or like the Pitt game last year...they blitz

[Cito Pelon]

Well, that goes against everything I read and heard last season. And from what I was seeing from my limited vantage point, it looked like Jake would make two reads and throw the ball away if it wasn't there. One thing you didn't see Jake do a lot last season is throw across his body.

See, this what confuses me. Supposedly the O is dumbed down for Jake, but there's receivers running complicated routes, with long play calls in the huddle. Maybe the O isn't all that dumbed down, and maybe that's the problem.

[anthonypacino]

See, this what confuses me. Supposedly the O is dumbed down for Jake, but there's receivers running complicated routes, with long play calls in the huddle. Maybe the O isn't all that dumbed down, and maybe that's the problem.
When they say dumbing it down all it means is that Shanny cut half the field out for Jake or the number of receivers in his progression maybe only two-three, who and where depend on down and distance...he still needs to know all of it but only worry about on part at a time, and he doesn't allow him to make his own audibles at the line, he and the recievers will respond to the coverage...that's why Jake will burn a TO early in the 3rd when we are down when he sees something he can't read.

[Jetmeck]

i saw no seperation for anyone, except devoe on the pic.

Exactly right, the Rams secondary played an excellent game. Had tight coverage all game and they also have damn good hands. Even the law of averages says they drop one of those INTS.

[Jetmeck]

Why am I waiting for Popps to come in and blame TJ for this thread.

For what ever reason I think Shanahan and Dinger are going to have to limit Plummer reads again to half the field. IF X and Z receiver are covered either throw it away or run with it.

Damn straight. If you can't run or throw it away, take the sack, don't force it into double covered receivers.

[Jetmeck]

Yes he dropped it, my problem with everyone's criticism of him however is that he had to make a fantastic play to even be in position to possibly make that catch.

I'm not saying he shouldn't have caught it, but it wasn't like he was standing in the endzone with no one around.


Yep, he had to jump up over a defender to even reach the ball. Catchable but understandable it was dropped.

[Cito Pelon]

When they say dumbing it down all it means is that Shanny cut half the field out for Jake or the number of receivers in his progression maybe only two-three, who and where depend on down and distance...he still needs to know all of it but only worry about on part at a time, and he doesn't allow him to make his own audibles at the line, he and the recievers will respond to the coverage...that's why Jake will burn a TO early in the 3rd when we are down when he sees something he can't read.

So if the one or two reads route's don't have a prayer, then Jake is expected to take the sack, run around, or throw the ball away? Doesn't make sense. Apparently, the object is for the receivers to get to an open spot, but seems to me a lot of times the receivers just can't find the open spot Jake is looking at.

[anthonypacino]

So if the one or two reads route's don't have a prayer, then Jake is expected to take the sack, run around, or throw the ball away? Doesn't make sense. Apparently, the object is for the receivers to get to an open spot, but seems to me a lot of times the receivers just can't find the open spot Jake is looking at.

That's why they were calling Jake a "caretaker" or "manager" last year

Well, yeah if the primary and second recievers are all covered up thats when you see Jake dump the ball...thats why you see the 3 yard pass when we need 6 for the first, or also most of the TO's occur when this happens.
(those left handed chucks by Jake aren't in the playbook, and I'm sure Shanny tells Fred to kick Jake in the nuts everytime he does it.)

[elsid13]

That's why they were calling Jake a "caretaker" or "manager" last year

Well, yeah if the primary and second recievers are all covered up thats when you see Jake dump the ball...thats why you see the 3 yard pass when we need 6 for the first, or also most of the TO's occur when this happens.
(those left handed chucks by Jake aren't in the playbook, and I'm sure Shanny tells Fred to kick Jake in the nuts everytime he does it.)

Which isn't a bad thing, watch what Brad Johnson does as the QB in WCO with Vikings. I kept on thinking that he (Johnson) would been very effective in Denver as mentor to Cutler.

But I like the idea of Fred kicking Plummer in the nuts when he screws up.

[Cito Pelon]

That's why they were calling Jake a "caretaker" or "manager" last year

Well, yeah if the primary and second recievers are all covered up thats when you see Jake dump the ball...thats why you see the 3 yard pass when we need 6 for the first, or also most of the TO's occur when this happens.
(those left handed chucks by Jake aren't in the playbook, and I'm sure Shanny tells Fred to kick Jake in the nuts everytime he does it.)

I'm thinking one of those 2 reads should get open more often. Wouldn't hurt, certainly.

[Cito Pelon]

. . . .But I like the idea of Fred kicking Plummer in the nuts when he screws up.

That's one way to get Cutler in the game for a few reps while the O-lineman that gave up the latest sack massages Jake's boys.

[Sodak]

Great thread. Thanks everyone.

[anthonypacino]

I'm thinking one of those 2 reads should get open more often. Wouldn't hurt, certainly.
Yeah, me too I try to see the pass game and the run game as a whole...it's alot like a chess game. Some plays are simply burn plays, setting up something else, a misdirection.
I am reminded of a old quote by Woody Hayes: "Three things happen when you throw the ball, two of them aren't good."

ps...when those two are covered and the QB is frustrated thats when sometimes he will "force" the ball, he is throwing more to a point where the reciever WILL be and if he didn't read a defender sliding into the coverage BANG...INT

[Taco John]

So if the one or two reads route's don't have a prayer, then Jake is expected to take the sack, run around, or throw the ball away?


Bingo. That's not only what Jake was expected to do, but that's what was demanded of him last year. And hey, give both Mike and Jake credit. It worked. Doing that, Mike managed to cut Jake's interceptions from the year previous by almost a complete 2/3rds, giving us a shot at winning the field position battle and winning games the conservative way. We won the division.

But the approach doesn't seem to be working in the playoffs...

[footstepsfrom#27]

It's pretty simple...

Jake can't run the complete playbook without turning it over, hence Shanny limits him to what he can do without exposing him to unnecessary risk. He doesn't have the arm to zing it in there, so short and medium range timing routes are our best option.

When the kid gets the gig we'll be seeing something pretty different than we are now once he figures it out.

[Cito Pelon]

Yeah, me too I try to see the pass game and the run game as a whole...it's alot like a chess game. Some plays are simply burn plays, setting up something else, a misdirection.
I am reminded of a old quote by Woody Hayes: "Three things happen when you throw the ball, two of them aren't good."

Rod had a pretty good qouteworthy today - ". . . . it's up to us to make [Jake] great and we didn't do a good job of that last week." Everything in the passing game has to click a little better, the passing O can't have one or two guys f up every other play, and it seems like there's too much of that.

[Cito Pelon]

Bingo. That's not only what Jake was expected to do, but that's what was demanded of him last year. And hey, give both Mike and Jake credit. It worked. Doing that, Mike managed to cut Jake's interceptions from the year previous by almost a complete 2/3rds, giving us a shot at winning the field position battle and winning games the conservative way. We won the division.

But the approach doesn't seem to be working in the playoffs...

If those two primary reads could get open, then it's a different matter.

[anthonypacino]

Rod had a pretty good qouteworthy today - ". . . . it's up to us to make [Jake] great and we didn't do a good job of that last week." Everything in the passing game has to click a little better, the passing O can't have one or two guys f up every other play, and it seems like there's too much of that.

I agree, so much has to go right for a play to really work, first the huddle, getting the play in, everyone getting into postion, 7 men on the line, Jake reads, Jake and lineman call protection, motion, another read, snap on right count, nobody jumping, line blocking, recievers running route without getting "bumped" throwing off the timing, passing lane develops, QB's mechanics in the throwing motion are good, receiver catching pass, holding onto pass...
It's alot that has to happen, pull one thread out and the whole thing is in danger of collapsing.

[Cito Pelon]

It's pretty simple...

Jake can't run the complete playbook without turning it over, hence Shanny limits him to what he can do without exposing him to unnecessary risk. He doesn't have the arm to zing it in there, so short and medium range timing routes are our best option.

When the kid gets the gig we'll be seeing something pretty different than we are now once he figures it out.

Something has to pop. Either the timing routes get run better and the O-line gives them time to open up, or we have to cave in and hope a stronger arm can squeeze it into the tight spots.

[COWBELL]

Plummer needs to complete his first few throws to get him in his comfort zone. If not things go south pretty fast for him. And yes a stonger arm would not hurt.

[Dedhed]

Cito,
I think a lot of what you're seeing with the Brady's and Mannings of the league is their ability to read defenses prior to the snap and make adjusments at the line to get guys open. The WCO that Denver currently runs is supposed to inherently have the right combination of routes to leave someone open, which is why Denver doesn't do much adjusting at the line of scrimmage. There are a lot of reasons why the passing attack hasn't been very potent, and that brings us back to a debate that has been beaten to death around here lately.

[Cito Pelon]

Cito,
I think a lot of what you're seeing with the Brady's and Mannings of the league is their ability to read defenses prior to the snap and make adjusments at the line to get guys open. The WCO that Denver currently runs is supposed to inherently have the right combination of routes to leave someone open, which is why Denver doesn't do much adjusting at the line of scrimmage. There are a lot of reasons why the passing attack hasn't been very potent, and that brings us back to a debate that has been beaten to death around here lately.

Seems to me the two reads that are supposed to be open aren't very open, and then the pocket is gone. Doesn't sound like much of a plan. Either the two reads available get open before the QB gets hammered, has to run for his life, or has to throw the ball away, or you toss Cutler to the wolves and hope he can gun it into those tight spots hard enough so only the receiver can catch it. Probably better to figure out why those 2 primary reads can't get open, then solve it.

[Dedhed]

Seems to me the two reads that are supposed to be open aren't very open, and then the pocket is gone. Doesn't sound like much of a plan. Either the two reads available get open before the QB gets hammered, has to run for his life, or has to throw the ball away, or you toss Cutler to the wolves and hope he can gun it into those tight spots hard enough so only the receiver can catch it. Probably better to figure out why those 2 primary reads can't get open, then solve it.
If Jake is only being asked to read half of the field the passing attack is effectively only half as efficient. It doesn't really work out to that number because a QB would can read the whole field isn't going to make the right read 100% of the time, a receiver could fall down, the defense could cover everyone well, and there are 100 other varaibles. I guess a better way to put it would be to say that there is about half (60% is a better #)the opportunity for the ball to find the receiver who comes open.

[elsid13]

If Jake is only being asked to read half of the field the passing attack is effectively only half as efficient. It doesn't really work out to that number because a QB would can read the whole field isn't going to make the right read 100% of the time, a receiver could fall down, the defense could cover everyone well, and there are 100 other varaibles. I guess a better way to put it would be to say that there is about half (60% is a better #)the opportunity for the ball to find the receiver who comes open.

To be successfully in the WCO the QB needs to have a completion rate 60% of the time. Anything above that is means the offense is really clicking. in reality the perfect QB for the offense would be someone with SOB's vision/understanding/accuracy of the offense and Plummer's mobility. Arm strength is added bonus

[elsid13]

Thought folks might enjoy the sites- I find them really good for understanding the tenants of the WCO

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/ (older but has lot of good formation information good links)

Briefs

1. Pre Snap Reads

http://www.sportscombine.com/thezone/Offense/Ron_Jenkins/The_Ten_Basic_QB_Reads_in_the_Multiple_West_Coast_ Offense_files/frame.htm

2. more dicussion of the system

http://www.sportscombine.com/thezone/Offense/Ron_Jenkins/The_Multiple_West_Coast_Offense_files/frame.htm

[Taco John]

Thought folks might enjoy the sites- I find them really good for understanding the tenants of the WCO

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/ (older but has lot of good formation information good links)

Briefs

1. Pre Snap Reads

http://www.sportscombine.com/thezone/Offense/Ron_Jenkins/The_Ten_Basic_QB_Reads_in_the_Multiple_West_Coast_ Offense_files/frame.htm

2. more dicussion of the system

http://www.sportscombine.com/thezone/Offense/Ron_Jenkins/The_Multiple_West_Coast_Offense_files/frame.htm



Great finds!

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

What AP has been describing is the core concept of the game of football - TEAMWORK. Every player has to complete ther assignment to be successful.

[ORANGEJARHEAD]

Thanks for the WCO links, el Cid. Wow.