Arctic Ice Melting Rapidly, Study Says

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I don't think there is much doubt left what we are doing to our world.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Arctic ice melting rapidly, study says
By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer

Arctic sea ice in winter is melting far faster than before, two new NASA studies reported Wednesday, a new and alarming trend that researchers say threatens the ocean's delicate ecosystem.

Scientists point to the sudden and rapid melting as a sure sign of man-made global warming.

"It has never occurred before in the past," said NASA senior research scientist Josefino Comiso in a phone interview. "It is alarming... This winter ice provides the kind of evidence that it is indeed associated with the greenhouse effect."

Scientists have long worried about melting Arcticsea ice in the summer, but they had not seen a big winter drop in sea ice, even though they expected it.

For more than 25 years Arctic sea ice has slowly diminished in winter by about 1.5 percent per decade. But in the past two years the melting has occurred at rates 10 to 15 times faster. From 2004 to 2005, the amount of ice dropped 2.3 percent; and over the past year, it's declined by another 1.9 percent, according to Comiso.

A second NASA study by other researchers found the winter sea ice melt in one region of the eastern Arctic has shrunk about 40 percent in just the past two years. This is partly because of local weather but also partly because of global warming, Comiso said.

The loss of winter ice is bad news for the ocean because this type of ice, when it melts in summer, provides a crucial breeding ground for plankton, Comiso said. Plankton are the bottom rung of the ocean's food chain.

"If the winter ice melt continues, the effect would be very profound especially for marine mammals," Comiso said in a NASA telephone press conference.

The ice is melting even in subfreezing winter temperatures because the water is warmer and summer ice covers less area and is shorter-lived, Comiso said. Thus, the winter ice season shortens every year and warmer water melts at the edges of the winter ice more every year.

Scientists and climate models have long predicted a drop in winter sea ice, but it has been slow to happen. Global warming skeptics have pointed to the lack of ice melt as a flaw in global warming theory.

The latest findings are "coming more in line with what we expected to find," said Mark Serreze, a senior research scientist at the National Snow and Ice Data Center in Boulder, Colo. "We're starting to see a much more coherent and firm picture occurring."

"I hate to say we told you so, but we told you so," he added.

Serreze said only five years ago he was "a fence-sitter" on the issue of whether man-made global warming was happening and a threat, but he said recent evidence in the Arctic has him convinced.
CONT (http://tinyurl.com/eubc4)

[DBruleU]

Better buy a boat.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Better buy a boat.
Amazing, you're a deep thinker just like Bush is!

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Amazing, you're a deep thinker just like Bush is!

Yep.

As long as gays can't get married, who cares about the survival of the planet, right?

[DBruleU]

Amazing, you're a deep thinker just like Bush is!

C'mon angry Beerboy. The only way to talk to you guys now is with pure sarcasm. Always works too.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

C'mon angry Beerboy. The only way to talk to you guys now is with pure sarcasm. Always works too.

When facts, truth, logic, and morality aren't on your side, I suppose sarcasm is your last refuge.

http://www.unfilterednewsnetwork.com/phpBB/images/smiles/koolaid.gif

[DBruleU]

When facts, truth, logic, and morality aren't on your side, I suppose sarcasm is your last refuge.

http://www.unfilterednewsnetwork.com/phpBB/images/smiles/koolaid.gif

Exactly. :yayaya: ;)

[Crushaholic]

That still doesn't prove that it's the fault of humans. The planet was changing and evolving millions of years ago, and that's before cars and aerosol cans. This ice melting LOOKS bad, but it may be part of a grand design...

[NOLA Bronco]

All I know is that beer stays colder in a tub of icey water than in a tub of ice alone.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

C'mon angry Beerboy. The only way to talk to you guys now is with pure sarcasm. Always works too.

http://www.bartcop.com/oxy_moron906.jpg

[BroncoBuff]

I can't find the D%#@! link, but I saw about a year ago where US, British and Netherlands shipping companies already are negotiating with Canada for the shipping lanes ... it was a true story, and it sounded very serious. They are really fighting over leases for shipping "over the hump."

I guess that means the English Muffins will be fresher and less expensive here in Seattle ;D

[mosca]

Exactly. :yayaya: ;)
^ Nominated for most useless post of the year.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

C'mon angry Beerboy. The only way to talk to you guys now is with pure sarcasm. Always works too.
Actually, you really don't seem to possess the basic common sense or knowledge to debate ANY subject (if you do, you're keeping it top yourself).

Any news yet when you get to ship your baby brother off to fight Bush's war for you?

[mhgaffney]

The BBC carried a similar report -- by a US scientist who is warning about the Greenland ice cap melting -- exactly what Al Gore said in his film.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5303574.stm

[TailgateNut]

That still doesn't prove that it's the fault of humans. The planet was changing and evolving millions of years ago, and that's before cars and aerosol cans. This ice melting LOOKS bad, but it may be part of a grand design...


Who's "grand design"? It does'nt prove it's the sole fault of humans, but it is a fact that we (humans) are proficient at accelarating the warming trend exponentially.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Who's "grand design"? It does'nt prove it's the sole fault of humans, but it is a fact that we (humans) are proficient at accelarating the warming trend exponentially.

Didn't you hear, dude?

Those holes in the ozone layer are produced by chipmunks!

I heard it on newsmax.com and WorldNutDaily. :D

[elsid13]

That still doesn't prove that it's the fault of humans. The planet was changing and evolving millions of years ago, and that's before cars and aerosol cans. This ice melting LOOKS bad, but it may be part of a grand design...

I understand that the world is flat too.

[DBruleU]

Actually, you really don't seem to possess the basic common sense or knowledge to debate ANY subject (if you do, you're keeping it top yourself).

Any news yet when you get to ship your baby brother off to fight Bush's war for you?

My time is spent doing other more important things than spending the better part of a day in a forum debating topics that are really not worth debating with the likes of you, LABF, and the regular left-wing posters. The only real topic I would spend any time getting in to, and can justify defending, is when people attack Chrisitanity.

When anyone posts something that differs with your ideology, or LABF's, they get attacked to no end for being a "Bush-bot." I honestly find no use in debating anything here as it really goes no where. It serves no purpose, and more importantly changes absolutely nothing.

Aside from that, school started a couple weeks ago. So I definitely have more important things to do that hang around the WRP forum for longer than 5 minutes.

The last part of your post is a perfect example as to why I find no need to hang around this forum long enough to make any impact.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

My time is spent doing other more important things than spending the better part of a day in a forum debating topics that are really not worth debating with the likes of you, LABF, and the regular left-wing posters.

Yep - global warming isn't a topic that's worth debating. That's the ticket.

Morally retarded post of the week.

[DBruleU]

Yep - global warming isn't a topic that's worth debating. That's the ticket.

Morally retarded post of the week.

Nice way to turn the tables LABF. Really, it makes zero difference what is said here. It's already been debated many times already. This forum should be renamed "Merry-go-round."

[Bronco_Beerslug]

My time is spent doing other more important things than spending the better part of a day in a forum debating topics that are really not worth debating with the likes of you, LABF, and the regular left-wing posters. The only real topic I would spend any time getting in to, and can justify defending, is when people attack Chrisitanity.

When anyone posts something that differs with your ideology, or LABF's, they get attacked to no end for being a "Bush-bot." I honestly find no use in debating anything here as it really goes no where. It serves no purpose, and more importantly changes absolutely nothing.

Aside from that, school started a couple weeks ago. So I definitely have more important things to do that hang around the WRP forum for longer than 5 minutes.

The last part of your post is a perfect example as to why I find no need to hang around this forum long enough to make any impact.BS!

And you and Bush's version of Christianity needs defending 24/7.

And I'm serious, what's the ETA when you send your little brother off to fight Bush's war for you since God told you not to go?

[DBruleU]

BS!

And you and Bush's version of Christianity needs defending 24/7.

And I'm serious, what's the ETA when you send your little brother off to fight Bush's war for you since God told you not to go?

I'm sorry, what was BS about that again?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I'm sorry, what was BS about that again?
What, were you lying, I thought you couldn't spend more than 5 minutes a day here now?

When do you ship your little brother off to fight for your beliefs?

[Atlas]

the polar bears are really going to suffer for this. I know months ago I saw that they have been find a lot of Polar bears floating in the ocean. When the ice breaks up the bears just swim to the next one, they are very good swimmers, but now there isn't another next one. they just swim and swim until they drown. This is definatley bad news indeed for one of the planets great species.

[BroncoBuff]

I can't find the D%#@! link, but I saw about a year ago where US, British and Netherlands shipping companies already are negotiating with Canada for the shipping lanes ... it was a true story, and it sounded very serious. They are really fighting over leases for shipping "over the hump."
THIS IS REAL! JUST FOLLOW THE MONEY!
BIG MONEY INVARIABLY LEADS TO TRUTH!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0225_050225_arctic_landrush.html

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/28130/newsDate/12-Nov-2004/story.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4354036.stm - GREAT article

http://www.ucalgary.ca/oncampus/weekly/oct17-03/dew-line.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/032100-01.htm

[BroncoBuff]

I don't think it much matters whether humans cause it or not .... we MUST slow the progression if at all possible.


http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/3672/40946958arcticice6map416or9.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[mosca]

Good point. Sadly, Buff, this is the way it is these days... Instead of focusing on solutions to problems people are more apt to point fingers and assign blame. Never mind the impending ecological disaster, that can wait. First things first, we gotta debate and argue over who or what caused it.

[BroncoBuff]

Good point. Sadly, Buff, this is the way it is these days... Instead of focusing on solutions to problems people are more apt to point fingers and assign blame. Never mind the impending ecological disaster, that can wait. First things first, we gotta debate and argue over who or what caused it.

Yup. Like Michael Stipe said, "bang and blame."


THIS IS REAL! JUST FOLLOW THE MONEY!
BIG MONEY INVARIABLY LEADS TO TRUTH!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0225_050225_arctic_landrush.html

http://www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/28130/newsDate/12-Nov-2004/story.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4354036.stm - GREAT article

http://www.ucalgary.ca/oncampus/weekly/oct17-03/dew-line.html

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/032100-01.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4290340.stm


Hey, look:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4141348.stm

If Siberia does thaw, we'll be able to get into Tunguska to retrieve the aliens that crash-landed there 100 years ago.

[BroncoBuff]

All I know is that beer stays colder in a tub of icey water than in a tub of ice alone.

Now THAT'S the kind of useful information that all message boards should encourage!

^5

AND NOW I SHALL RECIPROCATE by EXCHANGING useful information:

The next time you need ice cubes in a hurry, remember this: Warm water freezes faster than cold water. The very definition of "counter-intuitive," but I saw it on the Discovery Channel about 15 years ago.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Now THAT'S the kind of useful information that all message boards should encourage!

^5

AND NOW I SHALL RECIPROCATE by EXCHANGING useful information:

The next time you need ice cubes in a hurry, remember this: Warm water freezes faster than cold water. The very definition of "counter-intuitive," but I saw it on the Discovery Channel about 15 years ago.
My first live-in girlfriend told me this once a long time ago and I didn't believe her (missed science class that day). So I ended up losing a bet with her when we put it to the test.

[ant1999e]

All I know is that beer stays colder in a tub of icey water than in a tub of ice alone.

:thumbsup:

[ant1999e]

Actually, you really don't seem to possess the basic common sense or knowledge to debate ANY subject (if you do, you're keeping it top yourself).

Any news yet when you get to ship your baby brother off to fight Bush's war for you?

What an ass.4321~

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What an ass.4321~
Says the Bush nobber who never brings anything to the party but kneepads.

[Spider]

I got a solution to global warming ............... We set off a hundred Nukes or so near the north pole , we put more of a tilt in the earths tilting .... Keeping the polor regions futher from the sun ........ only problen is the south pole will be screwed , but hey no plan is perfect ... ;D

[Atlas]

http://www.nature.com/news/2005/051219/images/051219-6.jpg

Sunday Times December 18, 2005


Polar bears drown as ice shelf melts

SoCals link: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1938132,00.html


SCIENTISTS have for the first time found evidence that polar bears are drowning because climate change is melting the Arctic ice shelf.
The researchers were startled to find bears having to swim up to 60 miles across open sea to find food. They are being forced into the long voyages because the ice floes from which they feed are melting, becoming smaller and drifting farther apart.



Although polar bears are strong swimmers, they are adapted for swimming close to the shore. Their sea journeys leave them them vulnerable to exhaustion, hypothermia or being swamped by waves.

According to the new research, four bear carcases were found floating in one month in a single patch of sea off the north coast of Alaska, where average summer temperatures have increased by 2-3C degrees since 1950s.

The scientists believe such drownings are becoming widespread across the Arctic, an inevitable consequence of the doubling in the past 20 years of the proportion of polar bears having to swim in open seas.

“Mortalities due to offshore swimming may be a relatively important and unaccounted source of natural mortality given the energetic demands placed on individual bears engaged in long-distance swimming,” says the research led by Dr Charles Monnett, marine ecologist at the American government’s Minerals Management Service. “Drowning-related deaths of polar bears may increase in the future if the observed trend of regression of pack ice continues.”

The research, presented to a conference on marine mammals in San Diego, California, last week, comes amid evidence of a decline in numbers of the 22,000 polar bears that live in about 20 sites across the Arctic circle.

In Hudson Bay, Canada, the site of the most southerly polar bears, a study by the US Geological Survey (USGS) and the Canadian Wildlife Service to be published next year will show the population fell 22% from 1,194 in 1987 to 935 last year.

New evidence from field researchers working for the World Wildlife Fund in Yakutia, on the northeast coast of Russia, has also shown the region’s first evidence of cannibalism among bears competing for food supplies.

Polar bears live on ice all year round and use it as a platform from which to hunt food and rear their young. They hunt near the edge, where the ice is thinnest, catching seals when they make holes in the ice to breath. They typically eat one seal every four or five days and a single bear can consume 100lb of blubber at one sitting.

As the ice pack retreats north in the summer between June and October, the bears must travel between ice floes to continue hunting in areas such as the shallow water of the continental shelf off the Alaskan coast — one of the most food-rich areas in the Arctic.

However, last summer the ice cap receded about 200 miles further north than the average of two decades ago, forcing the bears to undertake far longer voyages between floes.

“We know short swims up to 15 miles are no problem, and we know that one or two may have swum up to 100 miles. But that is the extent of their ability, and if they are trying to make such a long swim and they encounter rough seas they could get into trouble,” said Steven Amstrup, a research wildlife biologist with the USGS.

The new study, carried out in part of the Beaufort Sea, shows that between 1986 and 2005 just 4% of the bears spotted off the north coast of Alaska were swimming in open waters. Not a single drowning had been documented in the area.

However, last September, when the ice cap had retreated a record 160 miles north of Alaska, 51 bears were spotted, of which 20% were seen in the open sea, swimming as far as 60 miles off shore.

The researchers returned to the vicinity a few days later after a fierce storm and found four dead bears floating in the water. “We estimate that of the order of 40 bears may have been swimming and that many of those probably drowned as a result of rough seas caused by high winds,” said the report.

In their search for food, polar bears are also having to roam further south, rummaging in the dustbins of Canadian homes. Sir Ranulph Fiennes, the explorer who has been to the North Pole seven times, said he had noticed a deterioration in the bears’ ice habitat since his first expedition in 1975.

“Each year there was more water than the time before,” he said. “We used amphibious sledges for the first time in 1986.”

His last expedition was in 2002, when he fell through the ice and lost some of his fingers to frostbite.

[TheDave]

Amazing, you're a deep thinker just like Bush is!

Does it really shock you Slug? This is a guy that believes the world is only 6000 years old and that just a few millennium ago man and dinosaurs walked side by side. Since the findings of math, physics, chemistry, archeology, and biology only go as far as his belief system will allow you can't be too surprised that he is unwilling/unable to consider the complexities of environmental sciences.

[Spider]

Does it really shock you Slug? This is a guy that believes the world is only 6000 years old
Does that include leap year ?

[TheDave]

Does that include leap year ?

lets see....

6000 / 4 = 1500

1500 / 365 = 4.12 years

For ease of figures will go with (6000 +/- 4)

Now the real problem comes in when we have to factor in the rotational inefficiencies of his "Flat Earth" beliefs :yayaya:


http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/images/FlatEarth.gif

[Spider]

lets see....

6000 / 4 = 1500

1500 / 365 = 4.12 years

For ease of figures will go with (6000 +/- 4)

Now the real problem comes in when we have to factor in the rotational inefficiencies of his "Flat Earth" beliefs :yayaya:


http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/images/FlatEarth.gif

what in the hell did you just say ? ;D

[Bronco_Beerslug]

lets see....

6000 / 4 = 1500

1500 / 365 = 4.12 years

For ease of figures will go with (6000 +/- 4)

Now the real problem comes in when we have to factor in the rotational inefficiencies of his "Flat Earth" beliefs :yayaya:


http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/images/FlatEarth.gif

LOL

Maybe some of the large contingent of those members here could cipher that for us.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Does it really shock you Slug? This is a guy that believes the world is only 6000 years old and that just a few millennium ago man and dinosaurs walked side by side. Since the findings of math, physics, chemistry, archeology, and biology only go as far as his belief system will allow you can't be too surprised that he is unwilling/unable to consider the complexities of environmental sciences.

ROFL! ^5

[SPfloppy]

I heard that a major cause of global warming was LAFB and all the hot air that eminates from his posts?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/ddavig/smoking.gif

[DBruleU]

I heard that a major cause of global warming was LAFB and all the hot air that eminates from his posts?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a373/ddavig/smoking.gif

In the words of LABF....

ROFL! ^5

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I heard that a major cause of global warming was LAFB and all the hot air that eminates from his posts?


Another one of those "deep thinkers" the Bush cartel champions.

[ClevelandBronco]

Another one of those "deep thinkers" the Bush cartel champions.

If I'm following another thread correctly, and I may not be, it appears that SPfloppy may be an alter ego of another guy named spdirty.

[DBruleU]

Another one of those "deep thinkers" the Bush cartel champions.

Your vast knowledge amazes me. You are clearly the most intelligent one around here.

[Spider]

not 1 vote for Spiders plan ......... Screw you hippies .........

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Your vast knowledge amazes me. You are clearly the most intelligent one around here.
Have you ever posted on topic? Probably not.

If I'm following another thread correctly, and I may not be, it appears that SPfloppy may be an alter ego of another guy named spdirty.
Nah, I hate to see all you right wingers confused on the same night :)

[Atlas]

Does it really shock you Slug? This is a guy that believes the world is only 6000 years old and that just a few millennium ago man and dinosaurs walked side by side. Since the findings of math, physics, chemistry, archeology, and biology only go as far as his belief system will allow you can't be too surprised that he is unwilling/unable to consider the complexities of environmental sciences.


The bible doesn't even mention dinosaurs. Dinosaurs don't actually exist they are just a creation of the democratic party to ruin the United States.

[DBruleU]

Have you ever posted on topic? Probably not.

Nope. Never. You are so above me its scary.

[DBruleU]

The bible doesn't even mention dinosaurs. Dinosaurs don't actually exist they are just a creation of the democratic party to ruin the United States.

Why, becasue the word, "dinosaur" isn't found in the Bible? Neither is the word "trinity" in the NT, but thats exactly what Jesus was talking about.

BTW-You may want to brush up on the book of Job. Fire breathing creatures sound like dinos to me.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The bible doesn't even mention dinosaurs. Dinosaurs don't actually exist they are just a creation of the democratic party to ruin the United States.
Dave's "globe" about says it all for the likes of DBruleU and some other religious Bush backers here.

http://xenohistorian.faithweb.com/holybook/images/FlatEarth.gif

[Spider]

BTW-You may want to brush up on the book of Job. Fire breathing creatures sound like dinos to me.

no thanks I already have a job ......

[TheDave]

BTW-You may want to brush up on the book of Job. Fire breathing creatures sound like dinos to me.


Good god (pun intended)... Is there any science class you didn't fail?

Dragons are fake... Dinosaurs were real :)

http://www.theartman.com/fantasy/fire_dragon.jpg

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You must forgive me.... I'm just another of these godless heathens trying to find my place in this world
Well, I know where mine is tonight and it's between the legs of a girl I know at the Tiki bar and I'm off to claim it. You ought to try it sometime DBruleU, getting laid that is, let those callouses on your palm heal up for awhile.

[Atlas]

Why, becasue the word, "dinosaur" isn't found in the Bible? Neither is the word "trinity" in the NT, but thats exactly what Jesus was talking about.

BTW-You may want to brush up on the book of Job. Fire breathing creatures sound like dinos to me.

HUH???? Dinosaurs don't breathe fire, boy you are out there.

[spdirty]

HUH???? Dinosaurs don't breathe fire, boy you are out there.

how do you know?

[Atlas]

how do you know?

because I'm not a flaming nut, a religious idiot that believes the Earth is 6,000 years old and that some guy named Noah built a f#cking boat that housed every animal, plant and insect on the Earth because God decided in all his arogance that he could just kill everything and it would be ok.

By the way why weren't the dinosaurs on this arc??

[DBruleU]

because I'm not a flaming nut, a religious idiot that believes the Earth is 6,000 years old and that some guy named Noah built a f#cking boat that housed every animal, plant and insect on the Earth because God decided in all his arogance that he could just kill everything and it would be ok.

By the way why weren't the dinosaurs on this arc??

That sounds official to me.

I guess if you created something, you can decide what you'd like to do with it.

[DBruleU]

Good god (pun intended)... Is there any science class you didn't fail?

Dragons are fake... Dinosaurs were real :)

http://www.theartman.com/fantasy/fire_dragon.jpg

Who said dragons? Just cause fire breathing dragons were made popular in novels, doesnt mean a dino couldnt have been like that. In all fairness, large creatures that sound just like what dinosaurs are described as, are described in the Bible.

I feel sad for your students. Do you just fail the ones that disagree with you like Churchill does?

[Atlas]

Who said dragons? Just cause fire breathing dragons were made popular in novels, doesnt mean a dino couldnt have been like that. In all fairness, large creatures that sound just like what dinosaurs are described as, are described in the Bible.

I feel sad for your students. Do you just fail the ones that disagree with you like Churchill does?


You're joking right??? You're saying it is possible for there to have been fire breathing dragons?? You believe that???

All religion is mythology. I find it hilarious that christians make fun of hercules, theseus, posiden, aphrodite, medusa..ect...ect...

As soon as people realize that all religion is mythology the better. Then maybe people like G.W. Bush won't be elected.

[Spider]

That sounds official to me.

I guess if you created something, you can decide what you'd like to do with it.

that would explain fire flies

[SPfloppy]

OK lets think about this seriously. LONG LONG LONG before there were Christian, Jews, or Muslims there were folks who worshiped the sun, The grass, lizzards, fire ect. In between change in beliefs there is a span of THOUSANDS of years. 2000 years of Christianity, 1900 years od Islam, 2700 years of Jeudeism well lets see here...probaibly a passing fad like Guess jeans or Nike Air Jordans in a 1000 year difference sort of way. Before you blast me think about it really really think about it. If you still blast me you are only proving bilnd faith. Good in the military not good to raise your children by. Love ya guys!

[TheDave]

Who said dragons? Just cause fire breathing dragons were made popular in novels, doesnt mean a dino couldnt have been like that.

So let me get this straight, according to you -

The earth is 6000 years old and man and "Fire Breathing Dinosaurs" walked sise by side during this period.

Unfortunately facts are that Dinosaurs nor any creature that walked the planet has ever "Breathed fire"...

Didn't you say recently that "School" just started... Please tell me which one that is so that i can do our community a service and steer all serious students away from it.


I feel sad for your students. Do you just fail the ones that disagree with you like Churchill does?

Not only would i fail every student that left my class believing in dragons, but i would take it one step further and resign.

[DBruleU]

So let me get this straight, according to you -

The earth is 6000 years old and man and "Fire Breathing Dinosaurs" walked sise by side during this period.

Unfortunately facts are that Dinosaurs nor any creature that walked the planet has ever "Breathed fire"...

Didn't you say recently that "School" just started... Please tell me which one that is so that i can do our community a service and steer all serious students away from it.




Not only would i fail every student that left my class believing in dragons, but i would take it one step further and resign.

Nor are there are facts that we evolved from sludge and monkeys, yet you believe that.

I'm getting tired of all this. We believe two different things. So what?

One day the truth will be revealed.

[TheDave]

Nor are there are facts that we evolved from sludge and monkeys, yet you believe that.

I'm getting tired of all this. We believe two different things. So what?

One day the truth will be revealed.

yeah, yeah, yeah.... What school are you going to?

[DBruleU]

yeah, yeah, yeah.... What school are you going to?

Denver Seminary. :D

[TheDave]

Denver Seminary. :D

Good, you had me worried there for a minute.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Another one of those "deep thinkers" the Bush cartel champions.

:laugh:

http://www.ahajokes.com/cartoon/6thsense.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If I'm following another thread correctly, and I may not be, it appears that SPfloppy may be an alter ego of another guy named spdirty.

Whoever he is, he's clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

[Atlas]

Nor are there are facts that we evolved from sludge and monkeys, yet you believe that.

I'm getting tired of all this. We believe two different things. So what?

One day the truth will be revealed.

Huh?? There are thousands upon thousands of facts supporting evolution yet you choose to ignore them. You choose to believe in fairy tales.

http://park.org/Canada/Museum/man/TITLE.gif

[SPfloppy]

Whoever he is, he's clearly not the sharpest tool in the shed.

You tend to beet up on people here. I have been away from this site for a while but remember that. I by taking shots at you the way I have was mearly trying to get a head start on you. Don't take anything personal bro. I just hate liberals

I do agree with some ideas that the traditional Democratic party have but it's leftist wackos that give the party a bad name. The right is not always right but dude they are winning right now and succeeding masterfully at making the libs look like fools who do nothing but combat anything the right trys, says or does. The sadest part of this vicious cycle is that libs actually contribute and give creadance to the "wackos" label at almost every turn.

Then again I may have a scewed perspective as the whole matter is subjective to the opinion of the individual.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You tend to beet up on people here. I have been away from this site for a while but remember that. I by taking shots at you the way I have was mearly trying to get a head start on you. Don't take anything personal bro. I just hate liberals

I do agree with some ideas that the traditional Democratic party have but it's leftist wackos that give the party a bad name. The right is not always right but dude they are winning right now and succeeding masterfully at making the libs look like fools who do nothing but combat anything the right trys, says or does. The sadest part of this vicious cycle is that libs actually contribute and give creadance to the "wackos" label at almost every turn.

Then again I may have a scewed perspective as the whole matter is subjective to the opinion of the individual.

LOL

Where DO they come from? ;D

[Atlas]

http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/z/-/3/Global-Warming-Rejoice-e.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/z/-/3/Global-Warming-Rejoice-e.jpg

:laugh:

Sadly, many of those nut cases really believe this.

[BroncoBuff]

Hey DBruleU .... Mine's Bigger Than Yours!


http://www.united-states-map.org/images/american-flag.gif

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Hey DBruleU .... Mine's Bigger Than Yours!


http://www.united-states-map.org/images/american-flag.gif

:laugh: ^5

[Rohirrim]

Meanwhile, back at the thread topic:

CU team notes quicker pace in loss of Greenland ice sheet
By Mark Jaffe
Denver Post Staff Writer



The Greenland ice sheet - which holds 70 percent of the world's fresh water - is shedding ice at an accelerating pace, a study released Wednesday said.

From 2004 to 2006, the rate of loss more than doubled compared with the prior two-year period, according to an analysis of satellite data by two researchers at the University of Colorado at Boulder.

"Nature is doing something we didn't expect," said Isabella Velicogna, a researcher in the CU physics department.

The accelerated depletion rate - 250 percent - suggests that the ice sheet responds quickly to changes in climate, the paper said.

"This raises the question of a much larger loss of the ice sheet in this century than we previously thought," Velicogna said.

The Greenland sheet is the second-largest ice mass on Earth - surpassed by Antarctica. It lost the equivalent of 164 million cubic miles of ice from April 2004 to April 2006 - more than enough water to fill Lake Erie.

The paper by Velicogna and John Wahr appears in today's edition of the journal Nature.

The loss of ice appears to be linked to climate change and a 4.4 degree increase in recorded Greenland temperatures in the past 20 years, Velicogna said.

There are two forces working to reduce the ice shelf, she explained.

First, there is melting ice, which not only directly reduces the sheet's size but runs beneath the glacier and acts as a lubricant to move ice toward the ocean.
The second is the "discharge" of ice as it breaks from the sheet and slides into the sea.

"Once the discharge starts, it doesn't stop quickly, even if the temperature falls," Velicogna said. "It's like a car rolling downhill."

The CU study follows research done by the University of Texas at Austin showing Greenland lost 57 cubic miles of ice annually from 2002 to 2005.

Both studies used Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) satellites that the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and Germany launched in 2002.

[DBruleU]

Hey DBruleU .... Mine's Bigger Than Yours!


http://www.united-states-map.org/images/american-flag.gif

It all depends on how you use it. ;)

[Barry Ramey]

The Martians must also be destroying Mars since their polar caps are melting too and the Sun gremlins doing a number on it since it's hotter now than it ever has been. Maybe since some are fixated on blaming humans despite just as many scientists who think it's BS that humans cause global warming, we can blame the astronauts for the Sun and Mars problems ;)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The Martians must also be destroying Mars since their polar caps are melting too and the Sun gremlins doing a number on it since it's hotter now than it ever has been. Maybe since some are fixated on blaming humans despite just as many scientists who think it's BS that humans cause global warming, we can blame the astronauts for the Sun and Mars problems ;)
Where are those flat earth guys these days?

From W*GS article below...
There is a “false sense somehow that there is a two-sided debate going on in the scientific community” about the origins of climate change, said Bob Ward, the senior manager for policy communication at the Royal Society.
The reality is that “thousands and thousands” of scientists around the world agree that climate change is linked to greenhouse gases, he said, with “one or two professional contrarians” who disagree.

[W*GS]

British Science Group Says Exxon Misrepresents Climate Issues

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/21/business/21green.html?ex=1316491200&en=acbc56e56edd91d3&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[BKK]

Good to hear, we could use the water.

[bendog]

That's just stupid.

[baja]

C'mon angry Beerboy. The only way to talk to you guys now is with pure sarcasm. Always works too.

I often wonder if stupid people like yourself ever get insights as to how stupid you actually are ?

[BroncoBuff]

It all depends on how you use it. ;)

Touche` :~ohyah!:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It all depends on how you use it. ;)

Well, if that's the critereon, then he's really got you beat.

[DBruleU]

I often wonder if stupid people like yourself ever get insights as to how stupid you actually are ?

I do. You guys tell me all the time. I'm a stupid "ditto-head" apparently.

Lighten up.

[SteveTensi13]

I bet I could find as many reputable scientists who dispute the greenhouse affect as there are scientists who support the theory.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I bet I could find as many reputable scientists who dispute the greenhouse affect as there are scientists who support the theory.

How much money do you have?

[Rohirrim]

A British scientific group, the Royal Society, contends that Exxon Mobil is spreading “inaccurate and misleading” information about climate change and is financing groups that misinform the public on the issue.

The Royal Society, a 1,400-member organization that dates back to the 1600’s and has counted Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein as members, asked Exxon Mobil in a letter this month to stop financing these groups and to change its public reports to reflect more accurately the opinions of scientists on the issue.

Here's a quote from the article W*gs posted. If you don't know who the Royal Society is, you can always Google them. The question is, which side of the issue has the greatest number of "reputable" scientists, as opposed to energy corporation whores?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

A British scientific group, the Royal Society, contends that Exxon Mobil is spreading “inaccurate and misleading” information about climate change and is financing groups that misinform the public on the issue.

The Royal Society, a 1,400-member organization that dates back to the 1600’s and has counted Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein as members, asked Exxon Mobil in a letter this month to stop financing these groups and to change its public reports to reflect more accurately the opinions of scientists on the issue.

Here's a quote from the article W*gs posted. If you don't know who the Royal Society is, you can always Google them. The question is, which side of the issue has the greatest number of "reputable" scientists, as opposed to energy corporation whores?

Heh heh heh! :laugh:

So even W*GS doesn't have SteveCoulter's back in this instance, it would seem.

:D

[W*GS]

I bet I could find as many reputable scientists who dispute the greenhouse affect as there are scientists who support the theory.

Good luck.

Your problem is that the "greenhouse affect [sic]" is well-proven, and has been for ~100 years.

The controversy is whether or not the Earth's climate is undergoing change, and whether or not we humans are causing it.

[BKK]

Day of Reckoning for DDT Foes?
Thursday, September 21, 2006

By Steven Milloy

E-MAIL STORY PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION
Last week’s announcement that the World Health Organization lifted its nearly 30-year ban on the insecticide DDT is perhaps the most promising development in global public health since… well, 1943 when DDT was first used to combat insect-borne diseases like typhus and malaria.

Overlooked in all the hoopla over the announcement, however, is the terrible toll in human lives (tens of millions dead — mostly pregnant women and children under the age of 5), illness (billions sickened) and poverty (more than $1 trillion dollars in lost GDP in sub-Saharan Africa alone) caused by the tragic, decades-long ban.

Much of this human catastrophe was preventable, so why did it happen? Who is responsible? Should the individuals and activist groups who caused the DDT ban be held accountable in some way?

Rachel Carson kicked-off DDT hysteria with her pseudo-scientific 1962 book, “Silent Spring.” Carson materially misrepresented DDT science in order to advance her anti-pesticide agenda. Today she is hailed as having launched the global environmental movement. A Pennsylvania state office building, Maryland elementary school, Pittsburgh bridge and a Maryland state park are named for her. The Smithsonian Institution commemorates her work against DDT. She was even honored with a 1981 U.S. postage stamp. Next year will be the 100th anniversary of her birth. Many celebrations are being planned.

It’s quite a tribute for someone who was so dead wrong. At the very least, her name should be removed from public property and there should be no government-sponsored honors of Carson.

The Audubon Society was a leader in the attack on DDT, including falsely accusing DDT defenders (who subsequently won a libel suit) of lying. Not wanting to jeopardize its non-profit tax status, the Audubon Society formed the Environmental Defense Fund (now simply known as Environmental Defense) in 1967 to spearhead its anti-DDT efforts. Today the National Audubon Society takes in more than $100 million per year and has assets worth more than $200 million. Environmental Defense takes in more than $65 million per year with a net worth exceeding $73 million.

In a February 25, 1971, media release, the president of the Sierra Club stated that his organization wanted “a ban, not just a curb” on DDT, “even in the tropical countries where DDT has kept malaria under control." Today the Sierra Club rakes in more than $90 million per year and has more than $50 million in assets.

Business are often held liable and forced to pay monetary damages for defective products and false statements. Why shouldn’t the National Audubon Society, Environmental Defense, Sierra Club and other anti-DDT activist groups be held liable for the harm caused by their recklessly defective activism?

It was, of course, then-Environmental Protection Agency administrator William Ruckelshaus who actually banned DDT after ignoring an EPA administrative law judge’s ruling that there was no evidence indicating that DDT posed any sort of threat to human health or the environment. Ruckleshaus never attended any of the agency’s hearings on DDT. He didn’t read the hearing transcripts and refused to explain his decision.

None of this is surprising given that, in a May 22, 1971, speech before the Wisconsin Audubon Society, Ruckleshaus said that EPA procedures had been streamlined so that DDT could be banned. Ruckleshaus was also a member of — and wrote fundraising letters for — the EDF.

The DDT ban solidified Ruckelshaus’ environmental credentials, which he has surfed to great success in business, including stints as CEO of Browning Ferris Industries and as a director of a number of other companies including Cummins Engine, Nordstrom, and Weyerhaeuser Company. Ruckelshaus currently is a principal in a Seattle, Wash., -based investment group called Madrona Venture Group.

Corporate wrongdoers — like WorldCom’s Bernie Ebbers and Tyco’s Dennis Kozlowski — were sentenced to prison for crimes against mere property. But what should the punishment be for government wrongdoers like Ruckleshaus who, apparently for the sake of his personal environmental interests, abused his power and affirmatively deprived billions of poor, helpless people of the only practical weapon against malaria?

Finally, there is the question of the World Health Organization itself. What’s the WHO been doing for all these years? There are no new facts on DDT — all the relevant science about DDT safety has been available since the 1960s. Moreover, the WHO’s strategy of mosquito bednets and malaria vaccine development has been a dismal failure. While the death toll in malarial regions has mounted, the WHO has been distracted by such dubious issues as whether cell phones and French fries cause cancer.

It’s a relief that the WHO has finally come to its senses, but on the other hand, the organization has done too little, too late. The ranks of the WHO’s leadership need to be purged of those who place the agenda of environmental elitists over the basic survival of the world’s needy.

In addition to the day of reckoning and societal rebuke that DDT-ban advocates should face, we should all learn from the DDT tragedy.

With the exception of Rachel Carson (who died in 1964), all of the groups and individuals above mentioned also promote global warming alarmism. If they and others could be so wrong about DDT, why should we trust them now? Should we really put the global economy and the welfare of billions at risk based on their track record?

[Rohirrim]

Day of Reckoning for DDT Foes?
Thursday, September 21, 2006

By Steven Milloy
...

warming alarmism. If they and others could be so wrong about DDT, why should we trust them now? Should we really put the global economy and the welfare of billions at risk based on their track record?

Joseph McCarthy was right and lead based paint is actually good for you. Revisionism is fun, and everybody can play.

[SteveTensi13]

How much money do you have?

How about $2.50 and a nice watch?

[W*GS]

Another take on the Royal Society's views on Exxon/Mobil:

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/the_honest_broker/000932david_whitehouse_on_.html

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Another take on the Royal Society's views on Exxon/Mobil:

http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/prometheus/archives/the_honest_broker/000932david_whitehouse_on_.html

Yeah, I might have worded it a little differently, maybe something like, "Dear Sirs, scientists from around the world would appreciate it if your company would discontinue your practice of disinformation and outright lies about your involvement in polluting the planet Earth".

[Rigs11]

More for the righties to discredit..


Global warming nears ‘dangerous’ level
Researchers say average temperatures are close to a million-year high

By Sara Goudarzi
Updated: 1 hour, 9 minutes ago

Global temperatures are dangerously close to the highest ever estimated to have occurred in the past million years, scientists reported Monday.

In a study that analyzed temperatures around the globe, researchers found that Earth has been warming rapidly, nearly 0.36 degrees Fahrenheit (0.2 degrees Celsius) in the last 30 years.

"The average surface temperature is 15, maybe 16 degrees Celsius (60 degrees Fahrenheit)," said Alan Robock, a meteorologist and climate researcher from Rutgers University who was not involved with the study.

If global temperatures go up another 1.8 degrees F (1 degree C), it would be equal to the maximum temperature of the past million years.

"This evidence implies that we are getting close to dangerous levels of human-made (anthropogenic) pollution," said study leader James Hansen of NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

‘A different planet...’
According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, human-caused greenhouse gases are responsible for most of the warming of the last 50 years. The gases, released by burning of fossil fuels and land clearing, among other factors, trap heat in the atmosphere and warm Earth's surface.

Further global warming of 1.8 degrees F (1 degree C) defines a critical level, Hanson said.

Robock agrees that temperatures are getting up there.

"It's certainly the warmest it's been in the last couple of thousand years," Robock said. "I don't have access to the data about the last million years but it's probably right. I just haven't looked at it in detail.

"During the warmest interglacial periods the Earth was reasonably similar to today. But if further global warming reaches 2 or 3 degrees Celsius, we will likely see changes that make Earth a different planet than the one we know," he said. "The last time it was that warm was in the middle Pliocene, about 3 million years ago, when sea level was estimated to have been about 25 meters [80 feet] higher than today."

The study also notes that global warming is greatest at higher latitudes near the poles. This is because when Earth warms, snow and ice melt, uncovering darker land and ocean surfaces. Instead of the once-white surface that reflected solar rays back into space, the darker surfaces now absorb more energy from the sun.

Mass migration
Although warming is most noticeable at the poles, higher latitudes are still among the coolest spots around. For animals and plants that can survive only within certain cool temperature ranges, these are the only places to go as their current homes become intolerably warm.

In a 2003 study, scientists showed that 1,700 plant and animal species migrated toward the poles at about 4 miles (6.4 kilometers) per decade in the last 50 years.

That migration rate is not fast enough to keep up with the current rate of movement of a given temperature zone, which has reached about 25 miles (40 kilometers) per decade in the period 1975 to 2005, Hanson and co-authors write in the current issue of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

"Rapid movement of climatic zones is going to be another stress on wildlife," Hansen said. "It adds to the stress of habitat loss due to human developments. If we do not slow down the rate of global warming, many species are likely to become extinct. In effect we are pushing them off the planet."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15003895/

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Joseph McCarthy was right and lead based paint is actually good for you. Revisionism is fun, and everybody can play.

:rofl: ^5