Plummer v. Cutler Hypothetical

[telluride]

Now, I'm not advocating making a QB switch yet, so don't frag me. But can someone give me a decent explanation as to why we dimiss out-of-hand the idea that Jay could be an effective change-up to Jake at select times this season? Like, for instance, in the second half of Sunday's game?

I've always heard the cliche that yanking a struggling QB imperils his "confidence." But it seems fairly obvious that this will be Jake's last season as the Bronc's starter. So should we really care about his confidence, which is probably already pretty shot after Sunday's debacle?

So if Jake begins to self destruct again in game 2, or 3, or 4, why not give Jay a try? If he comes in and excells -- great, situation resolved. If he comes in and struggles, Shanny either rides it out or switches back to Jake. No harmed psyche for Jay -- he's a rookie. And if Jake's psyche is harmed, does it really matter? He's gone after this season anyway.

I guess the question is: other than convention, is there a good reason why Shanny shouldn't use the two of them like goalies are used in the NHL -- play one until he loses his effectiveness, then insert the other?

[Taco John]

But what about people that want to get the most use of their Plummer jerseys? What are they supposed to do when Cutler is on the field? Duck tape the 1? :devil:

[bronco militia]

But what about people that want to get the most use of their Plummer jerseys? What are they supposed to do when Cutler is on the field? Duck tape the 1? :devil:

bwhahaha.....

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I'll say it now: If Plummer comes out throws more than 2 interceptions against KC, Cutler's going in.

[Sideburn]

He'ssss baaaacccckkkkkkk. Fitting after a loss.

[telluride]

Sideburn, you are a little out of date. When I post, I post after both wins and losses. Also, how, exactly, is this question a slam on the team or troll bait?

Let's try to be a little less reflexive next time, huh?

[2KBack]

I am strongly against any sort of QB controversy, but if yesterdays game become s a habit this season, Cutler will get his shot. I personally don't think that will be the case though, I think Jake and the whole offense will put things together still.

[orangenblue]

I think Cutler is going to start at least one or two games this year. That's just my personal prediction.

[ludo21]

i just want Jake to play better and worry about a QB controversy next season

[BigPlayShay]

I say Cutler shouldn't see the field until the playoffs are not a possibility. In this division, that won't be until very very late in the season anyway.

[DeusExManning]

Alec? Where are you. Call out Telluride as a fairweather fan like you did me!

We are just wasting our time with Jake at this point. No harm will be done if Jay is given the start. The whole argument that rushing him will hurt him is total BS. If there have been quarterbacks that got rushed in the past that failed it is because they sucked to begin with. As a lifelong football fan, Jay does not look like a rookie qb to me. Yes he will have to go through a growing process. Better now than next year. Let's get it over with.

If Jake was just mediocre that would be one thing. But he is flat out horrible and the rest of the team is just too good to accept that. Jake cannot throw longer than 15 yards, he keys in on Rod, he keys in on his receivers, he cannot call an audible or adjust to the blitz.... ever.

Start Jay NOW!!

The worst thing that will happen is if Jake has an OK couple of games and we get lulled into a sense that everything will be OK. But it won't because this side of Jake will come back again. We all know it, some us just don't want to admit it.

No way we win a super bowl right now. Let's give Jay some experience.
No better way to learn.

[SoonerBronco]

Sideburn, you are a little out of date. When I post, I post after both wins and losses. Also, how, exactly, is this question a slam on the team or troll bait?

Let's try to be a little less reflexive next time, huh?

He might be talking about boob...of course, boob is like an ingrown hair on your arse...annoying as hell, uncomfortable to sit with, and almost never goes away.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I say Cutler shouldn't see the field until the playoffs are not a possibility. In this division, that won't be until very very late in the season anyway.

I pretty much agree with this.

When you take the big picture into perspective, the obvious choice is Jake who is coming off of a 90+ rating season in which he helped lead a team to the NFL final four. Put that beside one of the best win%'s of any QB in the NFL since he's played at Denver and you have the answer to your question.

Now, if Jake flubs up a couple more games before the halfway point of the season, then you should begin this conversation again and for real in that time. We all know that Jake will be the starter next week, and the subsequent weeks as well unless something dramatic happens. Losing on the road to the Rams is not dramatic enough, despite Plummer's poor display.

[telluride]

I'm not sure I know whether Jake or Jay should start. Certainly Jake sucked on Sunday, but he'll likely rebound for the Chefs. On the other hand, at this point Jay holds all the possibility of being great, and it's hard to fight the urge to see if that will actually prove to be the case.

In any event, personal opinions aside, can someone try to answer the question I posed -- what's the harm, theoretically, in going with the QB who is succeeding at the moment, even if it means switching back and forth a few times during the season? Hell, the '72 Dolphins did that I believe, and they went undefeated!

[Garcia Bronco]

I'll say it now: If Plummer comes out throws more than 2 interceptions against KC, Cutler's going in.
Soooo....you are "going to go ahead and call it"?:spit:

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'm not sure I know whether Jake or Jay should start. Certainly Jake sucked on Sunday, but he'll likely rebound for the Chefs. On the other hand, at this point Jay holds all the possibility of being great, and it's hard to fight the urge to see if that will actually prove to be the case.

In any event, personal opinions aside, can someone try to answer the question I posed -- what's the harm, theoretically, in going with the QB who is succeeding at the moment, even if it means switching back and forth a few times during the season? Hell, the '72 Dolphins did that I believe, and they went undefeated!

I think it's a bad idea because it takes time for players to get acclimated to one another on the field. Brady came in and led his team to the superbowl. Roethlisberger had good results. I cant say the same for countless other young QB's who had a shot, but failed misrebly. I dont think that taking out a starter with a well above .700 win % for a rook is necessarily a smart thing to do. It looks reactionary to me. It does not hold true over a large sample of Bronco games that Jake has these type of performances. It is a little blown out of proportion by the fact that a similar type of game (although under much different circumstance - down 3 scores) in the conference championship, which was the last game that Jake played. Is this a pattern tha is going to repeat itself enough soon enough to cause the Broncos to fall short of the playoffs? History says "no", and does so emphatically.

So, jump to conclusions all you want at the hope for a greater QB (which I think that Jay will be), but I dont think that a results-conscious guy like Shanahan would boot Jake at the first hiccup of the season in light of the past.

Whether or not Jay is a better player is a different issue. Jay has not provided us with enough information to conclude one thing or the other. We know that his potential is immense, but sometimes guys with immense potential end up selling insurance.

[BroncoBuff]

Hey fans! Be a REAL Bronco Maniac!

Change your ....

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5779/plumwc5.png (http://imageshack.us) . . . into a . . . http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9295/cutsik9.png (http://imageshack.us)



Here's the supplies you'll need:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1097/tapejn2.png (http://imageshack.us)

(Cloth duct tape works better than vinyl tape for obvious reasons)

FIRST: Affix two long, vertical swaths of blue tape to eliminate the offensive numeral "1" on each side of the Plummer item.

SECOND: One shorter swath on each sleeve should eliminate the "1s" there.

THIRD: Fortunately, the names "PLUMMER" and "CUTLER" have several letters in common ... just cut and paste the letters until you have a match!

LOOK:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4845/111jl8.png (http://imageshack.us)


WOW! That jersey is more ready to go than Jay is!

Forget all about the INT-ret-TD at Arizona in the pre-season ... that will never happen again!

[Arkansas Bronco]

Im not one to say that puttingin Jay we will do worse then what Plummer can due but I have a feeling that turning him loose to soon will hinder him more then help. IMO I think that he could do just as good as Plummer but a year of seasoning and learning week to week will make him much better next year. It is just one game and as of now we realy shouldnt be shouting to start Cutler. We still have 15 more to go lets not throw him to the wolves quite yet. Hopefuly we can wait till next year and he will be the wolf in sheeps clothing.

[telluride]

BroncoBuff, that's some funny photoshop work!

[ludo21]

BB, that is fantastic work.

Jake will remain our guy tll further notice, but that is funny stuff! Ha!

[TDforTD]

Why would anyone think Jay would be anywhere near successful. After watching him play, it's evident he would be no better than Jake, however with little to no upside. He got away with playing like a dunce in the preseason against 2nd and 3rd team defenses. He would be much, much worse than Jake.

[Steve Sewell]

Man, I love Jay C. but some of the chicken little's here are pathetic. People seem to forget that we lost to Miami by 24 points in last season's opener and responded by winning the next 13 of 15 games.

[Killericon]

This should be stickied, and all other Cutler vs. Plummer threads should be closed.

[freak6]

After watching him play, it's evident he would be no better than Jake, however with little to no upside. He would be much, much worse than Jake.

lmfao

[Clark]

Prediction: Jake will settle down and the Broncos go on to make the playoffs only to have Jake melt-down (again). If that plays out, then a so-so season with Cutler cutting his teeth is going to look like heaven.

[freak6]

After watching him play, it's evident he would be no better than Jake, however with little to no upside. He would be much, much worse than Jake.

lmfao

I knew Jake posted on this site.

[TDforTD]

Because Jake actually has upside. Don't be an apologist.

[freak6]

Because Jake actually has upside. Don't be an apologist.

Really Mr. Plummer, what is that upside? That he can lead the Broncos in 4th quarter comeback...oops, never happened.

Is it that his arm is stronger, nope. He routinely misses wide open recievers that have to make miracle catches because he can't lead a reciever to pay dirt.

Is it the fact he makes terrible decisions with the ball. I hope that Jake the Jokey Jokemaker steps up this week or he is gonna be run out.

This team expects to go all the way after last season.

Will Jake fold under pressure, or respond like he did last year. I think he responds and kills the hapless Chiefs, the real ?/answer comes vs NE week 3.

[Killericon]

Really Mr. Plummer, what is that upside? That he can lead the Broncos in 4th quarter comeback...oops, never happened.

Is it that his arm is stronger, nope. He routinely misses wide open recievers that have to make miracle catches because he can't lead a reciever to pay dirt.

Is it the fact he makes terrible decisions with the ball. I hope that Jake the Jokey Jokemaker steps up this week or he is gonna be run out.

This team expects to go all the way after last season.

Will Jake fold under pressure, or respond like he did last year. I think he responds and kills the hapless Chiefs, the real ?/answer comes vs NE week 3.

It's as if he never led us to a 13-3 record...

[freak6]

It's as if he never led us to a 13-3 record...

I'm not jumping off the boat Icon. I am backing Jake, not in full panic mode. But another performance like the one last week, I think it's time to consider a switch.

Jake will get it together this week imo.

[TDforTD]

Jay is comparable to Boller and Losman. They are all interchangable. He played basically like Delhomme does, except instead of focusing on one WR, he focused on his primary route the whole play. This will not be effective.

Plummer has at least shown he can handle pro football.

[ScottXray]

Hey fans! Be a REAL Bronco Maniac!

Change your ....

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5779/plumwc5.png (http://imageshack.us) . . . into a . . . http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9295/cutsik9.png (http://imageshack.us)



Here's the supplies you'll need:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1097/tapejn2.png (http://imageshack.us)

(Cloth duct tape works better than vinyl tape for obvious reasons)

FIRST: Affix two long, vertical swaths of blue tape to eliminate the offensive numeral "1" on each side of the Plummer item.

SECOND: One shorter swath on each sleeve should eliminate the "1s" there.

THIRD: Fortunately, the names "PLUMMER" and "CUTLER" have several letters in common ... just cut and paste the letters until you have a match!

LOOK:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4845/111jl8.png (http://imageshack.us)


WOW! That jersey is more ready to go than Jay is!

Forget all about the INT-ret-TD at Arizona in the pre-season ... that will never happen again!

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL BWAHAAAAHAAAA!

[SureShot]

I love it that Jake "won" 13 games last year, but when he plays like sh!t, its a "team game". Enough is enough. 6n06.

[ludo21]

34-16 is in the past, its a new season. And so dar he played piss poor.

[Rigs11]

Really Mr. Plummer, what is that upside? That he can lead the Broncos in 4th quarter comeback...oops, never happened.

Is it that his arm is stronger, nope. He routinely misses wide open recievers that have to make miracle catches because he can't lead a reciever to pay dirt.

Is it the fact he makes terrible decisions with the ball. I hope that Jake the Jokey Jokemaker steps up this week or he is gonna be run out.

This team expects to go all the way after last season.

Will Jake fold under pressure, or respond like he did last year. I think he responds and kills the hapless Chiefs, the real ?/answer comes vs NE week 3.
You people make me laugh. We have one bad game and you start calling for a rookie who ain't done shet. Oh yeah he looked real impressive against those 2nd and 3rd string defenses. Whoopdee freaking doo.You know I almost hope they do put Cutler in just so when he facks up, you realize that it ain't so easy. Hell Elway couldn't of done shet against that rush yesterday. If you were paying attention instead of drooling over a rookie you would have noticed.Where's your blame for Shanny letting mike bell block a 250 pound DE?

[ZONA]

It's time to announce that the QB position is up for grabs and the best man wins. Give each guy a half this game and see how it goes. What harm is there in that? I agree, and so does Mike. If you can't handle the challenge, you're in the wrong business.

[ZONA]

You people make me laugh. We have one bad game and you start calling for a rookie who ain't done shet. Oh yeah he looked real impressive against those 2nd and 3rd string defenses. Whoopdee freaking doo.You know I almost hope they do put Cutler in just so when he facks up, you realize that it ain't so easy. Hell Elway couldn't of done shet against that rush yesterday. If you were paying attention instead of drooling over a rookie you would have noticed.Where's your blame for Shanny letting mike bell block a 250 pound DE?

Oh and how do you know the specifics about that play? Are you on the coaching staff? How do you know that the play doesn't call for a quick throw from the QB because the back is going to block the DE? Plummer pump faked like he was going to do just that. Maybe he was supposed to throw it at that time, but he held on to the ball. Unless you know exactly what was called in the huddle, you're just guessing it was a bad play design.

That wasn't just a BAD game for Plummer dude. It was maybe one of the worst every performances I've seen from a QB. What would have Elway done against that rush you say? Well, he might have thrown the ball away so we could have punted, and not given the Rams 26 plays from our own turf in the first quarter, or half, or whatever it was. Maybe Elway would have thrown the ball 2 seconds sooner to Davoe and completed the pass inside the 10 yard line. Who knows. I do know he probably wouldn't have fumbled once and thrown 3 picks and scored a 27 QB rating.

So if Mike does call for Cutler and he wins, you're going to eat crow?

[Frair Tang]

It's time to announce that the QB position is up for grabs and the best man wins. Give each guy a half this game and see how it goes. What harm is there in that? I agree, and so does Mike. If you can't handle the challenge, you're in the wrong business.

EVERY position is ALWAYS up for grabs. This year, Jake is the best QB we got. Next year will be a different story. I've said it in other threads, you put Cutler in a game in any situation other than garbage time, and you run the risk of ruining him, the way Reeves almost ruined Elway. Elway revealed later that he considered quitting football and going into baseball (he was drafted by the Yankees).

Patience, Grasshoppers. When you can walk across a cheerleader's panties, and leave no trace, you will have learned...

[ZONA]

It's as if he never led us to a 13-3 record...


True - he led us to a 13-3 record and and to the playoffs. Read between the lines just once though. Stats don't tell the whole story.

Some fortunate turnovers for us against the Pats and we win. Jake plays so so I guess. Nothing special if you ask me. The better QB was still Brady, by a mile. A pounding running attack and large early leads nearly all season, alot of QB's could have went 13-3 so you can hang that record on the "teams" wall, not Jake's alone. Then he falls apart against the Steelers, alot of other people did also but doesn't change the fact he clearly was one of the WORST. When our team gets behind in a game, the players might think Jake can lead them to victory but I think the coaches know the chances are slim.

I don't know - when I look back at 99% of the superbowl winners, I can honestly say the QB was the best player on that team. Yeah, there's a Dilfer or 2 in there but mostly studs at QB. Is Jake the best player on our team? Or even close? Maybe that might put some perspective on this whole thing.

[ZONA]

EVERY position is ALWAYS up for grabs. This year, Jake is the best QB we got. Next year will be a different story. I've said it in other threads, you put Cutler in a game in any situation other than garbage time, and you run the risk of ruining him, the way Reeves almost ruined Elway. Elway revealed later that he considered quitting football and going into baseball (he was drafted by the Yankees).

Patience, Grasshoppers. When you can walk across a cheerleader's panties, and leave no trace, you will have learned...

Hmmm............let me think about that for a second. I would have to say that a QB under the tunure of Shanny, in this current system, has much much much much much much much better odds at performing well then under a Dan Reeves team. Young Elway didn't have a team that was ranked 1st in every major offensive catagory under Reeves. Cutler's situation would not even be comparable other then the fact they were both rookies. Not too convincing of an arguement to keep Jay from starting. In additon, Cutler didn't have the best of talent along side him in college so I would say hurting his confidence is not an easy task at all.

[Frair Tang]

OK, try this one:

He's not ready. Cutler has more talent than Plummer and I'd love to see him play, but, right now, Plummer's the better player. Cutler needs to learn how to read NFL defenses so he has half a chance of surviving out there.

I realize there are many that just can't wait to see Cutler play...but I can.

[Rigs11]

Oh and how do you know the specifics about that play? Are you on the coaching staff? How do you know that the play doesn't call for a quick throw from the QB because the back is going to block the DE? Plummer pump faked like he was going to do just that. Maybe he was supposed to throw it at that time, but he held on to the ball. Unless you know exactly what was called in the huddle, you're just guessing it was a bad play design.

That wasn't just a BAD game for Plummer dude. It was maybe one of the worst every performances I've seen from a QB. What would have Elway done against that rush you say? Well, he might have thrown the ball away so we could have punted, and not given the Rams 26 plays from our own turf in the first quarter, or half, or whatever it was. Maybe Elway would have thrown the ball 2 seconds sooner to Davoe and completed the pass inside the 10 yard line. Who knows. I do know he probably wouldn't have fumbled once and thrown 3 picks and scored a 27 QB rating.

So if Mike does call for Cutler and he wins, you're going to eat crow?

Well gee Genius maybe he didn't have time to throw the ball because that huge ass DE was being blocked by a 5'9 rookie RB, who ran right by him. Do i have to be on the coaching to see that?If Cutler steps in than I'll cheer for him.But unlike people like you I wont ask for him to be replaced after one game.The so called fans around here are silly.

[Rigs11]

True - he led us to a 13-3 record and and to the playoffs. Read between the lines just once though. Stats don't tell the whole story.

Some fortunate turnovers for us against the Pats and we win. Jake plays so so I guess. Nothing special if you ask me. The better QB was still Brady, by a mile. A pounding running attack and large early leads nearly all season, alot of QB's could have went 13-3 so you can hang that record on the "teams" wall, not Jake's alone. Then he falls apart against the Steelers, alot of other people did also but doesn't change the fact he clearly was one of the WORST. When our team gets behind in a game, the players might think Jake can lead them to victory but I think the coaches know the chances are slim.

I don't know - when I look back at 99% of the superbowl winners, I can honestly say the QB was the best player on that team. Yeah, there's a Dilfer or 2 in there but mostly studs at QB. Is Jake the best player on our team? Or even close? Maybe that might put some perspective on this whole thing.
Dude do you actually watch football?It's a team game. just ask Peyton, he ain't won shet and his team didn't make it to AFC championship game, ours di. Elway didn't win jack shet till TD came around. Where do you come up with this rubbish?

[ZONA]

Well gee Genius maybe he didn't have time to throw the ball because that huge ass DE was being blocked by a 5'9 rookie RB, who ran right by him. Do i have to be on the coaching to see that?If Cutler steps in than I'll cheer for him.But unlike people like you I wont ask for him to be replaced after one game.The so called fans around here are silly.

Everybody complaining about Jake is justified. He's sucked bad lately. Implying that we are "so called fans", thus meaning we are not true fans, is not justified. Just because my opinion is different then yours makes me no less a fan. I've followed the team since 83. Watched every game, watched every press release video on the Broncos website. Know every single player on the roster, and coaches, chat in Broncos forums, purchase Broncos merchandise, read every Broncos article at Denver Post and Rocky Mountain news - even though many of them are the same. I would have season tickets if I didn't live in AZ. I would say that qualifies me as a real fan. Thank you.

[usedupbraids]

We lost to miami last year 31-10 i belive plummer threw 3 ints that game we won 5 after that lost.We always do bad open day games, im not ready to give up plummer yet next year cutler will come.

[ZONA]

Dude do you actually watch football?It's a team game. just ask Peyton, he ain't won shet and his team didn't make it to AFC championship game, ours di. Elway didn't win jack shet till TD came around. Where do you come up with this rubbish?

1) Yeah - I do watch the games, every single one, several times off of my Tivo, in High Defination and surround sound. Love it too. I break down every game for hours. Drives my wife crazy. Did I not summize the game correctly? The defense played good, the running game was mostly solid, Jake sucked ass. If you come up with something different, I'd have to ask did you watch the game.

2) What in the hell does Manning have to do with Plummer sucking ass?

3) Young Elway got his lousy team to the Superbowl 3 times when any other QB on wouldn't have come close to smelling the playoffs, including Plummer. Then he actually WON 2 superbowls when Shanny was the HC and assembled a real team. That's five trips to the big dance during his career. How many does Plummer have? What are you calling Rubbish?

Nobody said it's not a team game. What post are you reading? It's a team sport but that doesn't mean individual players are not accountable for their own performance. Jake's performance was pathetic. Jake lost the game.

[Rigs11]

Everybody complaining about Jake is justified. He's sucked bad lately. Implying that we are "so called fans", thus meaning we are not true fans, is not justified. Just because my opinion is different then yours makes me no less a fan. I've followed the team since 83. Watched every game, watched every press release video on the Broncos website. Know every single player on the roster, and coaches, chat in Broncos forums, purchase Broncos merchandise, read every Broncos article at Denver Post and Rocky Mountain news - even though many of them are the same. I would have season tickets if I didn't live in AZ. I would say that qualifies me as a real fan. Thank you.

Complaining is justifiable. Calling for Cutler is just plain silly. See the difference?By the way why aren't you calling for Javon to be replaced? how about that drop by Rod Smith?How about the penalty by Chuqura? How about our D giving up those long runs?How about Tatum and the fumble?How about Shanny not susing any misdirection till it was too late? To me being a fan means supporting your team, even when they suck.

[usedupbraids]

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/5280/untitledhm1.png

[Frair Tang]

I would have season tickets if I didn't live in AZ. I would say that qualifies me as a real fan. Thank you.

I have season tickets and I live in Oregon.

You're welcome.

[Rigs11]

1) Yeah - I do watch the games, every single one, several times off of my Tivo, in High Defination and surround sound. Love it too. I break down every game for hours. Drives my wife crazy. Did I not summize the game correctly? The defense played good, the running game was mostly solid, Jake sucked ass. If you come up with something different, I'd have to ask did you watch the game.

2) What in the hell does Manning have to do with Plummer sucking ass?

3) Young Elway got his lousy team to the Superbowl 3 times when any other QB on wouldn't have come close to smelling the playoffs, including Plummer. Then he actually WON 2 superbowls when Shanny was the HC and assembled a real team. That's five trips to the big dance during his career. How many does Plummer have? What are you calling Rubbish?

Nobody said it's not a team game. What post are you reading? It's a team sport but that doesn't mean individual players are not accountable for their own performance. Jake's performance was pathetic. Jake lost the game.

1.Gotta love the high def.Defense was good, offense sucked. yes the offense. go back and watch the game, in high def, and look at the pressure that Jake was under. Now was jake at fault? Of course.But you're calling for his head only when the Oline sucked and the receiving was atrocious.

2.Well you implied in a previous post that the QB position is what matters. I disagreed and brought up Manning, who many consider to be one of the best Qb's around and yet he hasn't won anything.

3. Yup and never won it till he got a supporting cast.And I remember elway looking like shet in those superbowls.Spread the blame is all I'm saying. people are freaking out after the first game in a 16 game season.

[No1BroncoFan]

I have season tickets and I live in Oregon.
My condolences! ;D J/K

That make two we have living in Bend, Or. I used to live in Corvallis (Willamette valley weather sucks) until I got the opportunity to return home.

Ben

[BroncoSoja]

Hey fans! Be a REAL Bronco Maniac!

Change your ....

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5779/plumwc5.png (http://imageshack.us) . . . into a . . . http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9295/cutsik9.png (http://imageshack.us)



Here's the supplies you'll need:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1097/tapejn2.png (http://imageshack.us)

(Cloth duct tape works better than vinyl tape for obvious reasons)

FIRST: Affix two long, vertical swaths of blue tape to eliminate the offensive numeral "1" on each side of the Plummer item.

SECOND: One shorter swath on each sleeve should eliminate the "1s" there.

THIRD: Fortunately, the names "PLUMMER" and "CUTLER" have several letters in common ... just cut and paste the letters until you have a match!

LOOK:

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/4845/111jl8.png (http://imageshack.us)


WOW! That jersey is more ready to go than Jay is!

Forget all about the INT-ret-TD at Arizona in the pre-season ... that will never happen again!

ROFL Can you imagine if someone actually did that and shows up to the
game next week? Man that would be too damn funny.


Personally I think we will see Cutler after the Balitmore game, I think Plummers Head will explode after NE, INDY, and Baltimore get done with him.

[Frair Tang]

My condolences! ;D J/K

That make two we have living in Bend, Or. I used to live in Corvallis (Willamette valley weather sucks) until I got the opportunity to return home.

Ben

I grew up in Golden and lived in Durango for 10 years. I'm living in Bend until I get the opportunity to go home. When the kids get out of high school, I'm gone. I'm hoping my wife comes with me - I've told her she's welcome to!

[usedupbraids]

ROFL Can you imagine if someone actually did that and shows up to the
game next week? Man that would be too damn funny.


Personally I think we will see Cutler after the Balitmore game, I think Plummers Head will explode after NE, INDY, and Baltimore get done with him.

Plummer head wont explode his cool as the other side of the pillow 8')
will go 11-5 or 12-4 NE win ,indy win they have no running game,Baltimore close game not saying win or not

[Dedhed]

Why would anyone think Jay would be anywhere near successful. After watching him play, it's evident he would be no better than Jake, however with little to no upside. He got away with playing like a dunce in the preseason against 2nd and 3rd team defenses. He would be much, much worse than Jake.

I'm against starting Cutler for at least seven more weeks, but this take is the definition of absurd. If you watched pre-season and it wasn't completely obvious that Cutler's upside is beyond the limits of Plummer you're either drunk, stupid, or Jake's mom.

[ward63]

Give him the next 2 games....if he sucks, then give Jay the bye week to get prepared for Baltimore(which is like throwing him to the wolves, after how good they looked).

[ZONA]

I have season tickets and I live in Oregon.

You're welcome.

Well maybe you have enough wealth where you can travel from Oregon to Colorado for every home game. Do you think the majority of us have enough money where we can do that? Shut up.

[ZONA]

I'm against starting Cutler for at least seven more weeks, but this take is the definition of absurd. If you watched pre-season and it wasn't completely obvious that Cutler's upside is beyond the limits of Plummer you're either drunk, stupid, or Jake's mom.

I agree - that was a pretty confused outlook on Cutler's potential.

[telluride]

Hate to harp on this, but I still would love a good explanation from one of the board's football savants on why it's such a bad idea to rotate QBs depending on their play. For this season, given all the Jake/Jay variables and the fact that a switch to Jay is inevitable next year, I don't understand why such an approach would not benefit the team this year.

Anyone?

[Rigs11]

Jake had help in downfall
By Anthony Cotton
Denver Post Staff Columnist


Foxborough, Mass. - As word filtered into the press box at Gillette Stadium that Jake Plummer was beginning this season where he left off last season, playing abysmally in the Broncos' opener, the reaction was all too predictable.

There were guffaws, as that noted NFL road warrior Barry Manilow once said, "from Boston to Denver, and every town in between."

"Nice beginning, Jake Plummer. The Denver quarterback threw three interceptions and lost a fumble in the Broncos' 18-10 loss at St. Louis. Four turnovers. Now where have I seen that before?" wrote one scribe for a national publication - one of the few printable epithets that was hurled the Snake's way.

But nowhere amid all the put-downs were there any barbs about Javon Walker's hands, or that the Broncos' new difference-maker managed to hold on to the ball just two more times than Ashley Lelie did for Atlanta - which, by the way, managed to win its game on the road, at NFC-favorite Carolina, no less. Or about an offensive line that made Leonard Little look like Lawrence Taylor homing in on Joe Theismann.

Or about a lack of flexibility that seems to dictate that the only way Plummer can get to the outside to throw is on a naked bootleg. If it's so essential that the current quarterback not be stuck inside the pocket, wouldn't you think that all the bright minds at Dove Valley could come up with a couple new wrinkles?

When you play quarterback in the NFL, sometimes the hardest knocks come after the final whistle. After the New England Patriots escaped the Buffalo Bills on Sunday by the hair of their chinny chin chins, a crestfallen Tom Brady even blasted himself, going on and on about how he needs to make better decisions on the field. As if it was his fault someone blew a block and allowed Takeo Spikes to clobber him for a fumble and Buffalo touchdown on the very first play of the season.

The real reason for Tom Terrific's depression, said local observers, was that he didn't have Deion Branch to throw to. If that's true, with Branch gone to Seattle, Brady's going to be in for a long year.

Granted, this may be the last time someone links Brady and Plummer in the same train of thought, but that doesn't have to be the case in Denver, does it? After all, what's the real difference between Sunday and Sunday, Sept. 11, 2005, i.e., the season-opening 34-10 loss to Miami?

Apparently, the answer to that one is the presence of Jay Cutler on the Broncos' roster. But while there's little doubt Mike Shanahan would throw a loved one under the bus if it would improve the traction en route to Super Bowl XLI in Miami, he surely can't believe that now's the time to kick Plummer to the curb - especially when there are so many other areas so obviously in need of a serious tune-up.

There's no question Cutler is going to be the bomb - now just isn't the time to light the fuse. If Kansas City cornerbacks Patrick Surtain and Ty Law aren't already laughing at a puny Broncos passing "attack" that totaled 138 yards Sunday, without a completion of 20 yards, imagine their reaction to the news they would be facing a rookie making his first NFL start.

Even more frightening, picture Patriots coach Bill Belichick scheming away for Cutler when Denver comes to visit two weeks hence.

Other than that pesky "Any Given Sunday" thing, there can be no excuse to losing at home to the Chiefs, especially if Trent Green is unable to play. If that were to happen, and the Broncos then fell at New England, dropping to 0-3 heading into the bye, then all bets are off and the redshirt should come off Cutler. At that point, you're looking at a near-historic run for the playoffs anyway.

But today, hanging Plummer in effigy and laying all of the team's woes off on him is just plain lazy. That he's such an easy target speaks to his troubled past as scatterbrained, scatter-armed signal caller.

The question is, how long will it take for everyone else in orange and blue to start living up to their so-much-more-exalted résumés?

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_4322450

[TDforTD]

Lol. No one else was watching Jay target his primary WR the whole game? Again, he has the ability to get the ball in there before a 2nd/3rd stringer can realize it. This won't work in the NFL. For examples, look at Boller/Losman.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Now, I'm not advocating making a QB switch yet, so don't frag me. But can someone give me a decent explanation as to why we dimiss out-of-hand the idea that Jay could be an effective change-up to Jake at select times this season? Like, for instance, in the second half of Sunday's game?

I've always heard the cliche that yanking a struggling QB imperils his "confidence." But it seems fairly obvious that this will be Jake's last season as the Bronc's starter. So should we really care about his confidence, which is probably already pretty shot after Sunday's debacle?

So if Jake begins to self destruct again in game 2, or 3, or 4, why not give Jay a try? If he comes in and excells -- great, situation resolved. If he comes in and struggles, Shanny either rides it out or switches back to Jake. No harmed psyche for Jay -- he's a rookie. And if Jake's psyche is harmed, does it really matter? He's gone after this season anyway.

I guess the question is: other than convention, is there a good reason why Shanny shouldn't use the two of them like goalies are used in the NHL -- play one until he loses his effectiveness, then insert the other?

Hate to harp on this, but I still would love a good explanation from one of the board's football savants on why it's such a bad idea to rotate QBs depending on their play. For this season, given all the Jake/Jay variables and the fact that a switch to Jay is inevitable next year, I don't understand why such an approach would not benefit the team this year.

Anyone?

Because that would cause a QB problem like they had in Miami prior to Culpepper, who is going to play this week, how long will i last, can i keep my job questions start to race in the QB's mind, and thagt destroys both the current QB and future QB, to have their heads messed up from this point on, and destroys the team for more than just a year.

But regardless, Denver will stomp the Chiefs and every person who asked questions like this, about starting Cutler or trading Jake will say they have believed in Jake since he got here.

[TDforTD]

There is no reason anyone should be blaming this loss on Jake. If people are using his 3 ints as a measuring stick, you didn't watch the game without a pre-meditated thought that you wanted him out.

[Houshmazode]

There is no reason anyone should be blaming this loss on Jake. If people are using his 3 ints as a measuring stick, you didn't watch the game without a pre-meditated thought that you wanted him out.

No Wai!

[Dagmar]

Prediction: Jake will settle down and the Broncos go on to make the playoffs only to have Jake melt-down (again). If that plays out, then a so-so season with Cutler cutting his teeth is going to look like heaven.

Kinda my opinion too. But maybe, he improves, then unlike last year doesn't melt down, wins the SB and we deal with all this next off season! That'll be a more fun way to deal methinks.

[Kaylore]

Why would anyone think Jay would be anywhere near successful. After watching him play, it's evident he would be no better than Jake, however with little to no upside. He got away with playing like a dunce in the preseason against 2nd and 3rd team defenses. He would be much, much worse than Jake.

LOL

[Kaylore]

There is no reason anyone should be blaming this loss on Jake. If people are using his 3 ints as a measuring stick, you didn't watch the game without a pre-meditated thought that you wanted him out.

Wow, you're like actually insane. I guess when one person turns over the ball four times it's Larry Coyer's fault, right?

[freak6]

"When a person is insane, as you clearly are, do you know that you're insane? Maybe you're just sitting around, reading Guns & Ammo, masturbating, in your own feces...do you just stop and go, 'WOW! It is amazing how fkn crazy I really am'."

[Popps]

Hate to harp on this, but I still would love a good explanation from one of the board's football savants on why it's such a bad idea to rotate QBs depending on their play. For this season, given all the Jake/Jay variables and the fact that a switch to Jay is inevitable next year, I don't understand why such an approach would not benefit the team this year.

Anyone?

Its an interesting proposition. There's just so much that comes from repetition when it comes to playing QB. Even taking snaps is an art form. Receivers get used to the way one guy throws, RBs get used to the way one guy hand the ball off, etc. Then there's the fact that certain playbooks will be used for certain QBs, etc. It's not like hockey goalies, that really operate fairly well isolated from the rest of the team.

But, teams have tried it to an extent. You may remember Reeves using Moore/Maddox in the same game, alternating them every down, I believe.
We almost beat a very good Dallas team that day. There have been other isolated incidents, and teams trying to sneak their running QB in. We did it with Van Pelt last year, in fact.

It would be pretty radical, and the bottom line is... coaches a$$es are always a couple inches from the hot seat. They're simply not going to take risks like that.

[freak6]

There's just so much that comes from repetition when it comes to playing QB. Even taking snaps is an art form.


lol @ taking snaps is an art form.

[BroncoSoja]

It's as if he never led us to a 13-3 record...

And who remembers the AFC Champion runner ups.. Silly little bronco Fanatics who make man love to Plummer, that is who.

[BroncoSoja]

There is no reason anyone should be blaming this loss on Jake. If people are using his 3 ints as a measuring stick, you didn't watch the game without a pre-meditated thought that you wanted him out.

I cant wait untill the day that you, opps I mean Jake is ran out of this town.

I see a life of being a career (opps 2 year at best) backup in your near future, outside of Denver ofcourse.

[errand]

I think Cutler is going to start at least one or two games this year. That's just my personal prediction.

Cutler will become our starting QB when Jake is no longer the best option to lead our team to a W. Until then you clowns need to knock it off. Cutler will eventually get his chance....just not this year.

BTW, Jake has had horrible opening day games very year here in Denver.

And after every one of those season openers some clowns come in here demanding we trade him, cut him, bench him etc.....despite the fact that we made the playoffs in every one of those seasons.

Jake will lead this team to the playoffs....again. And he'll put up decent numbers doing so. Remember he tossed 3 INTs in his very first game as a Bronco...and ended up with 7 for the year.

sometimes I wonder if you clowns realize that Cutler is a rookie who saw nothing in preseason that he'll see in the regular season. If you think Jake was pressured by the Rams....how do suppose Jay would have done back there running for his life?

[errand]

Wow, you're like actually insane. I guess when one person turns over the ball four times it's Larry Coyer's fault, right?

Jake needs to be held accountable for his turnovers (I'm sure Mike will chastise him about forcing throws and protecting the ball)....but they were a direct result of the pressure the Rams were able to put on him throughout the game. I think Mike works more on protecting Jake this week.

Making a QB throw before he wants to or before the WR is actually open can cause turnovers...getting sacked from behind while preparing to throw the ball can cause turnovers.

How about just tipping your hat to the Rams' D who came to play...and played well. We cannot win every game, and generally we suck on the road, regardless of who our QB or HC was.

What I want to know is why nobody is bitching about our offensive coordinator/playcalling after this loss...I mean was the problem solved when Kubiak signed with Houston?

[BroncoMan4ever]

Why would anyone think Jay would be anywhere near successful. After watching him play, it's evident he would be no better than Jake, however with little to no upside. He got away with playing like a dunce in the preseason against 2nd and 3rd team defenses. He would be much, much worse than Jake.

In the words of Tom Jackson, "ARE YOU RETARDED?"

I am against Jay starting this year at all, unless Denver has the division and a playoff spot locked up and the last game is a throwaway that doesn't matter.

But realistically, if it came down to it, Denver could win and not only win but kick some a$$ with Jay as the starter this year if he had to be put in the game.

[Houshmazode]

Wow, you're like actually insane. I guess when one person turns over the ball four times it's Larry Coyer's fault, right?

I guess it wasn't our ****ty O-line's fault for letting too much pressure get to him, or Mike Bell for getting rocked by Leonard Little and allowing the fumble, or Devoe's dumbass standing out of position and jumping too early's faults, then was it?

[Rascal]

Now, I'm not advocating making a QB switch yet, so don't frag me. But can someone give me a decent explanation as to why we dimiss out-of-hand the idea that Jay could be an effective change-up to Jake at select times this season? Like, for instance, in the second half of Sunday's game?

I've always heard the cliche that yanking a struggling QB imperils his "confidence." But it seems fairly obvious that this will be Jake's last season as the Bronc's starter. So should we really care about his confidence, which is probably already pretty shot after Sunday's debacle?

So if Jake begins to self destruct again in game 2, or 3, or 4, why not give Jay a try? If he comes in and excells -- great, situation resolved. If he comes in and struggles, Shanny either rides it out or switches back to Jake. No harmed psyche for Jay -- he's a rookie. And if Jake's psyche is harmed, does it really matter? He's gone after this season anyway.

I guess the question is: other than convention, is there a good reason why Shanny shouldn't use the two of them like goalies are used in the NHL -- play one until he loses his effectiveness, then insert the other?

We lose and look who shows up. Suprise suprise.

[TDforTD]

Wow. All these posts with so little basis. First off, let's look at Plummer's performance without all the "get rid of Plummer!@!!@!" thoughts.

1) The whole game, Little much like Porter last year, was able to build a housing complex in the Broncos backfield. That was ridiculous and this o line is going to have to learn how to protect otherwise it's going to be a long year full of blaming the wrong person.

2) One interception was a catchable ball. It may have been delayed, and it may have been a bad ball, but there is no reason Devoe couldn't come up with the ball.

3) Another interception was when the Broncos were playing from behind and even though it was in double coverage, it was still a tipped ball. Not to mention, it's at these times when QBs are allowed a mistake seeing as how he needed to come up with something or else all the ignorant fans would blame him for the loss anyway.

You guys are going to have to start watching the games with a football philosophy. This "OMG 3 INTERCEPTIONS, GET RID OF HIM!@!" bs is ridiculous.

[telluride]

We lose and look who shows up. Suprise suprise.

Rascal, you are way out of date. Read the thread(s)

[crowebomber]

The two major problems I saw with Plummer's game on Sunday were:

1. He looked down his primary receiver almost every play. It drives me crazy when he does this as safeties are just waiting for him. Is it so hard to do a pump fake to another receiver from time to time?

2. He didn't have very good pocket presence and seemed to panic when it started to collapse. He used to be pretty savvy at feeling the pressure and scrambling, but not this game. I knew we were in trouble when in the first quarter he was wrapped up and he threw that underhanded thing to Mike Bell (which very easily could have been picked the way hit hung up in the air so long).

Foster stunk and balls were dropped, but Jake didn't look like a leader out there. Maybe it was first game jitters (should you have those after 10 years) but he looked kinda scared.

[usedupbraids]

:thumbs: The two major problems I saw with Plummer's game on Sunday were:

1. He looked down his primary receiver almost every play. It drives me crazy when he does this as safeties are just waiting for him. Is it so hard to do a pump fake to another receiver from time to time?

2. He didn't have very good pocket presence and seemed to panic when it started to collapse. He used to be pretty savvy at feeling the pressure and scrambling, but not this game. I knew we were in trouble when in the first quarter he was wrapped up and he threw that underhanded thing to Mike Bell (which very easily could have been picked the way hit hung up in the air so long).

Foster stunk and balls were dropped, but Jake didn't look like a leader out there. Maybe it was first game jitters (should you have those after 10 years) but he looked kinda scared.

:thumbs: !Booya! agreee