View Full Version : A Proposal for UN reform
The Lone Bolt
09-01-2006, 12:13 PM
The Iraq war is now and will be a controversial issue for a long time to come. One thing we should consider now is ways to avoid such controversy in the future. I have some thoughts on this subject, and I am curious about what you guys might think (from both sides of the issue).
The way I see it, if the invasion of Iraq were sanctioned by the UN there wouldn't be the debate we are having today. Some say we acted "illegally" (and I can see their point). Personally I think the fault is due to a flawed system at the UN. I propose a solution that could potentially satisfy both sides:
I propose that the UN classify nations in order to determine how the UN should proceed with any resolutions. Two such classifications should be:
1) Democratic nations: Nations which meet international standards of democratic elections as determined by international observers.
2) Dictatorships: Autocratic regimes ruled by a single, unelected ruler who maintains power by force and who's elections do not meet international standards of democratic elections.
There may be other categories, but the important point is that dictatorships should be automatically considered more threatening or dangerous than democracies as:
1) dictators are not responsible to the people they rule,
2) dictators are unrestrained by any political mechanisms, and
3) dictators cannot be removed from office through legal means.
Furthermore, a special category would apply to dicatorships that take unjustified, aggressive action against their neighbors (a standard to be agreed upon by the UN). Such unrestrained rulers and their regimes guilty of repeated aggressive acts should be subject to a special circumstance of any UN resolutions passed to contain them: a mechanism should be in place that automatically authorizes military force after a set time when compliance with UN resolutions has not been met.
The problem with the current system is that there is no such enforcement mechanism. This is acceptable in cases in which there is no threat to anyone. But in some cases there should be a clear policy which differentiates threatening situations from non-threatening ones, and sets a clear course of action which escalates over time to ensure compliance to UN resolutions, ending in military action when all other lesser enforcement efforts have failed. Currently what happens is the UN fumbles around passing resolution after resolution with no clear course of escalation and no limits to the number of resolutions passed and the time frame for compliance. In most cases this is not a problem, but in some cases it may lead to disaster.
I really think this is a solution that satisfies both sides. If the UN does resort to military action it will be done legally, satisfying the Iraq war critics. But there will also be a guaranteed mechanism in place to make sure that international threats are not left unaddressed indefinitely and that UN resolutions are ultimately enforced rather than passing endless resolutions without enforcement (satisfying people like myself).
And once again, who is dangerous and who isn't would be clearly defined in advance by the UN (not the US), following the sensible guidelines I outlined above.
This is just a rough idea. I'm sure there are flaws to be considered.
Thoughts?
Crushaholic
09-02-2006, 12:15 AM
We need to do away with the U.N as a legislative body. Humanitarian aid coordinated by the U.N. is fine with me. In my opinion, Bush was acting in the best interest of the country. That's all that matters, in my mind...
UN dissolution and elimination - the only reform that will work.
Spider
09-02-2006, 08:53 AM
do away with the UN .....Brilliant ...I know we can get all the world leaders to meet at Starbucks to discuss global issues ............ great Idea guys ....... well thought out plan ......... and People claim there is no intelligent life here on earth.....
Spider
09-02-2006, 08:54 AM
We need to do away with the U.N as a legislative body. Humanitarian aid coordinated by the U.N. is fine with me. In my opinion, Bush was acting in the best interest of the country. That's all that matters, in my mind...
Yeah Invading Iraq is what was best for this country ....... we are reaping the benifits .......
Tell us what the purpose of the UN is, Spider.
What do we get out of it that makes it worth it?
Spider
09-02-2006, 08:57 AM
Tell us what the purpose of the UN is, Spider.
What do we get out of it that makes it worth it?
LOL , nothing at all . do away with it ....... A great thinker like yourself , could manage all this issues facing the world today with a place for everyone to meet ..... I know , we will install somthing like the Batphone in every world leaders office ....... Fiber optics the only way to fly
That's not an answer... But I didn't expect much else, Spider.
Spider
09-02-2006, 09:02 AM
That's not an answer... But I didn't expect much else, Spider.
then what in the hell did you ask me a question for ?
your take is idiotic , dont get mad at me for making fun of you .........
If my take is "idiotic", prove to me the value of the UN, then. I'll reconsider if you can make a good fact-supported argument, Spider.
You've got quite the task, to say the least.
Spider
09-02-2006, 09:10 AM
If my take is "idiotic", prove to me the value of the UN, then. I'll reconsider if you can make a good fact-supported argument, Spider.
You've got quite the task, to say the least.
LOL , what you believe matters so much to me , that I shall endeavor to change your mind ..............
once upon a time on a planet very far away , there were many kingdoms ,and these Kingdoms had issues , and instead of trying to talk to many differet kings on the phone at once , and confrence calls not working out , a Brave young Prince said I have the answer , we will build a place were all can meet talk out issues , to aviod another Hitler , and the people of these kingdoms rejoced except a person named W*GS , he was not happy and pissed as hell at LABF , but in the end people saw that W*GS was a realy a republican .............
The End
Nice try. But try again.
Leave off the stupid crap, too - make a case for the UN.
Barry Ramey
09-02-2006, 10:15 AM
The UN has been about talk and no action for years. The genocide that has been allowed to happen in Rwanda and the Sudan, while Annan, an african, sat by and did nothing about it. Oh, they sent some troops who ended up doing some raping of their own. It's a flawed organization that has too many members who hate jews and wants to appease terrorist organizations. And even like the oil for food scam, enter in illegal business as well. If they want to revamp the UN, it first must start with firing Annan and all of the other leaders in it. Then maybe something can be acomplished. Until then, it's just a useless organization that spends more time watching people die and give off empty threats than anything else.
Spider
09-02-2006, 11:16 AM
Nice try. But try again.
Leave off the stupid crap, too - make a case for the UN.
ok once upon a time in a magic kingdom .. is that better ?
mhgaffney
09-02-2006, 02:49 PM
The UN has been about talk and no action for years. The genocide that has been allowed to happen in Rwanda and the Sudan, while Annan, an african, sat by and did nothing about it.
You are correct. The UN has often been unable to solve problems. And the biggest reason is because each permanent member of the Security Council has a veto.
I'm personally not familiar with the history of UN footdragging in the case of Rwanda. But the Mideast conflict is surely the most visible and most outrageous case. The UN has failed to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian problem for one and one reason only -- because the US has used its veto dozens of times -- and many other times merely the threat of a veto -- to block the UN from action.
The US uses its veto to shield Israel from acountability -- and since 1967 has backed Israel's illegal occupation of Golan and the West Bank. This is the deepest and most serious unresolved conflict in the world today --- and if the worst -- WW III -- does occur this will be at the root.
An excellent summary by Chomsky was posted today at Counterpunch. It's factually accurate and highly recommended.
http://www.counterpunch.org/chomsky09022006.html
As for Kofii Anan, he was the US choice and more often than not has done the bidding of the US -- though it is true that he occasionally stretches his leash and dare to have an independent opinion.
Everyone b****es about the UN -- but if the UN did not exist you would have to create it all over again.
MG
Everyone b****es about the UN -- but if the UN did not exist you would have to create it all over again.
Why?
UN is failure number 2 when it comes to State-to-State talking shops.
Care to go for failure #3?
Bronco_Beerslug
09-02-2006, 05:11 PM
Why?
UN is failure number 2 when it comes to State-to-State talking shops.
Care to go for failure #3?
The UN is critically important though maybe not always effective. A planet with no means of mediation (ours anyway) whether effective or sometimes inefficient, is doomed to warfare.
What the UN provides is a "cooling down period", a pause before action which often is enough to prevent scenarios that could quickly deteriorate to something no one would want to see come about.
SteveTensi13
09-02-2006, 06:32 PM
For the life of me I cannot think of a single accomplishment from the UN.
SteveTensi13
09-02-2006, 06:36 PM
A planet with no means of mediation (ours anyway) whether effective or sometimes inefficient, is doomed to warfare.
The UN has been in affect since what 1948? And this planet has been in a state of constant warfare since its inception. UN or no UN warfare is in the human gene, it cannot be legislated out.
Bronco_Beerslug
09-02-2006, 06:41 PM
The UN has been in affect since what 1948? And this planet has been in a state of constant warfare since its inception. UN or no UN warfare is in the human gene, it cannot be legislated out.
Ever find that ruling where "libs" prevented the NM police dept. from searching vehicles with illegal drugs in plain sight?
SteveTensi13
09-02-2006, 06:42 PM
You are correct. The UN has often been unable to solve problems. And the biggest reason is because each permanent member of the Security Council has a veto.
I'm personally not familiar with the history of UN footdragging in the case of Rwanda.
Why because they're black and not worthy of your attention?
The UN is critically important though maybe not always effective. A planet with no means of mediation (ours anyway) whether effective or sometimes inefficient, is doomed to warfare.
A world without the UN isn't a world without mediation.
Besides, a UN with enough teeth to prevent war would be a far worse situation than we have now.
Bronco_Beerslug
09-02-2006, 06:55 PM
A world without the UN isn't a world without mediation.
Besides, a UN with enough teeth to prevent war would be a far worse situation than we have now.
It absolutely is! There is no other world forum. There is only one side against the other side with no pause for debating specifics without the UN.
It absolutely is! There is no other world forum. There is only one side against the other side with no pause for debating specifics without the UN.
The UN has shown itself worthless time and again. It's long past time for it to be dissolved as a colossal waste.
SteveTensi13
09-02-2006, 08:17 PM
Ever find that ruling where "libs" prevented the NM police dept. from searching vehicles with illegal drugs in plain sight?
.
Bronco_Beerslug
09-03-2006, 08:20 AM
.
So I take it you were just BSing about it after all?
mhgaffney
09-03-2006, 11:06 AM
Some years ago I proposed a UN reform that would, if enacted, make the UN much more effective at solving world problems.
The reform would be to change the veto rule. Hencforth, the process would require at least two Security Council vetos -- instead of one -- to block action by the Council.
This would make the UN much more effective. Problem is, the US would never allow such a reform to happen. We would assuredly block implementation.
So we see that the biggest problem with today's world is America: the fact that America is led by retro thinkers -- and worse. When was the last time we had a president of the calibre of, say, Thomas Jefferson?
MG
Spider
09-03-2006, 11:17 AM
Some years ago I proposed a UN reform that would, if enacted, make the UN much more effective at solving world problems.
The reform would be to change the veto rule. Hencforth, the process would require at least two Security Council vetos -- instead of one -- to block action by the Council.
This would make the UN much more effective. Problem is, the US would never allow such a reform to happen. We would assuredly block implementation.
So we see that the biggest problem with today's world is America: the fact that America is led by retro thinkers -- and worse. When was the last time we had a president of the calibre of, say, Thomas Jefferson?
MG
to think the world has been deprived of your genius ........... oh and we had a pretty good pres in JFK , but they blew the hell out of him ..........
mhgaffney
09-03-2006, 12:10 PM
to think the world has been deprived of your genius ...........
I laugh at myself all the time.
So we see that the biggest problem with today's world is America: the fact that America is led by retro thinkers -- and worse.
One of the problems with the world is people like you, MG.
SteveTensi13
09-03-2006, 10:03 PM
I laugh at myself all the time.
Hmm, I laugh at you all the time too, shoot, we have something in common!
SteveTensi13
09-03-2006, 10:05 PM
So we see that the biggest problem with today's world is America:
MG
That is why your types are not trusted with Americas security!
Spider
09-03-2006, 10:17 PM
Hmm, I laugh at you all the time too, shoot, we have something in common!
and while you are laughing at him , the rest of us wonder why you are not locked up in a padded room , there Starsky ...............
L.A. BRONCOS FAN
09-03-2006, 10:21 PM
That is why your types are not trusted with Americas security!
We've seen what happens when the clown posse you support is entrusted with America's security:
http://z.about.com/d/politicalhumor/1/0/G/f/bush_petgoat_chapter2.jpg