DJ Williams and other bad mofo's

[Kaylore]

Man, did he play crazy good tonight or what? Forced fumble, intercepion, tackles for loses and really wrapped up well. He's been better and better each game, too! It looks like he's settling into his role. I think he's going to have a sweet season this year if he keeps this up. He was all over the field and usually somewhere near the ball.

I'd also like to give a shout out to Nate Webster who also made some great plays and once again lost his helmet. I hope he loses his helmet at least once every game when he eventaully plays so we can see his face after he smashes running backs into the turf. :approve:

Dumervil was all over the field too. Looks like -Slap-'s adopt a bronco is proving himself. Sterling Sharpe was really singing his praises and he's no dummy when it comes to football. Great group of guys to have on our team. :)

[Rock Chalk]

Man, did he play crazy good tonight or what? Forced fumble, intercepion, tackles for loses and really wrapped up well. He's been better and better each game, too! It looks like he's settling into his role. I think he's going to have a sweet season this year if he keeps this up. He was all over the field and usually somewhere near the ball.

I'd also like to give a shout out to Nate Webster who also made some great plays and once again lost his helmet. I hope he loses his helmet at least once every game when he eventaully plays so we can see his face after he smashes running backs into the turf. :approve:

Dumervil was all over the field too. Looks like -Slap-'s adopt a bronco is proving himself. Sterling Sharpe was really singing his praises and he's no dummy when it comes to football. Great group of guys to have on our team. :)

Meanwhile Ian Gold sucked tonight. 8 million dollars. Bleh.

[Atlas]

Props to Ecuban. He looked real good too.

[NFLBRONCO]

Meanwhile Ian Gold sucked tonight. 8 million dollars. Bleh.

Can we trade Ian to Houston for D. Ryans

[SoCalBronco]

Obviously, I was thrilled to see DJ making plays all over the place. The only thing I was upset about was when he had Carr for a sack and let Carr sidestep him and get the throw off. Other than that, he was outstanding, 5 tackles, 1 FF, 1 INT in slightly over a half of football. KEEP HIM ON THE FIELD, COYER!!! Don't take him off the field in Nickel situations. I ****ing hate that.

Javon Walker also was marvelous. Jake laid him out on that post but he still snatched it and withstood the crunch from the safety. He made some nice plays when they went his way.

Good point in bringing up Dumervil, Khan. He made that play on the 3rd and short and prevented Houston from getting that first down even though the refs got it wrong and thought otherwise. He got into the backfield a few times too.

Ekuban and Mike Myers were disruptive too. Good to see the rest of the DL is picking up for Warren and Brown while they are out. Lang did some things too. I was surprised that Predator wasnt out there.

[2KBack]

Was he credited with that fumble? The one that went out of bounds? IF that is the one it was credited wrong. I mean he played well and all, but he whiffed on his tackle on that play.

[Taco John]

DJ did a good job overall, but I was very irritated when he made the right decision to close the gap on a David Carr Bootleg, only to watch him over-pursue and whiff big time...

But that's about all that could be said negative about his effort. The guy really stood out otherwise.

[elsid13]

DJ did a good job overall, but I was very irritated when he made the right decision to close the gap on a David Carr Bootleg, only to watch him over-pursue and whiff big time...

But that's about all that could be said negative about his effort. The guy really stood out otherwise.

TJ
He was damn either way - he play back Carr runs for 1st, he close the gap Carr throws it over his head. That why that bootleg is so effective for Denver.

[Dedhed]

DJ has looked good in all three games. He's looking like he's just playing football again instead of doing a lot of thinking out there. He's as talented as almost any LB out there, and I expect him to be a force now that he's no lobger in transition.

Gold better watch out, becuase Webster is looking very good.

[Drek]

He's adjusting well to his new position, where I think he'll be a beast. His coverage skills look miles ahead of last year. Wouldn't surprise me a tall if he's taken Gold's spot on the Nickle formation. Hopefully Webster keeps impressing from the second string and Cam Vaughn gets a PS spot so that next year we can cut Gold and replace him with Webster. I don't think there's any way Gold gets to play out that whole big money contract.

[ludo21]

Ernster booted it well last night as well.

KO's into the endzone, punt inside 20. I hope they boot knorr now!

[BroncoInferno]

He's adjusting well to his new position, where I think he'll be a beast. His coverage skills look miles ahead of last year. Wouldn't surprise me a tall if he's taken Gold's spot on the Nickle formation. Hopefully Webster keeps impressing from the second string and Cam Vaughn gets a PS spot so that next year we can cut Gold and replace him with Webster. I don't think there's any way Gold gets to play out that whole big money contract.

Why? Gold had an excellent season in '05. Why do people feel the need to prove there love for DJ by bashing Gold, who has done nothing but produce and provide energy to the defense? Looks like maybe Shanny and Coyer knew what they were doing when they brought back Gold. DJ is starting to come around and make plays, thus giving us playmaking capabilities at all three LB spots.

[Drek]

Why? Gold had an excellent season in '05. Why do people feel the need to prove there love for DJ by bashing Gold, who has done nothing but produce and provide energy to the defense? Looks like maybe Shanny and Coyer knew what they were doing when they brought back Gold. DJ is starting to come around and make plays, thus giving us playmaking capabilities at all three LB spots.

Because Gold is disgustingly overpaid. Its got nothing to do with DJ moving or anything, I'd want DJ to stay at strong side anyways, where his freakish combination of size and speed is a great matchup for TEs around the league in coverage.

Gold is a good OLB, not a great one. He's got clear weaknesses (his size and strength) and clear advantages (speed). The later will disapear as he gets older though while the former will always be a problem. There is simply no point in overpaying Gold when Webster could step in and be as productive, albiet in a different capacity. Gold's value will also drop dramatically if DJ beats him out for the second Nickle spot, as coverage is his forte.

I got no problems with Gold, its simple cap economics, Gold isn't cost effective. Same reason why I hope Cutler steps up and takes Jake's job next year. It'll give us more money down the road to improve the weaker aspects of our team.

[worm]

Nate Webster = the headless horseman

I think I will take up making up silly nicknames for Bronco players like Mock...

[Mediator12]

Ah, the Ian Gold dilemma LOL

DJ is getting better people and now DEN TRULY has the BEST 3 LB's on the field of any NFL 4-3 Defense. For all the Crap Ian gets around here, no one seems to even see the plays he does make. Ian shed two OL to make tackles last night. One on third down. Man you all are a tough crowd.

[BroncoInferno]

Ah, the Ian Gold dilemma LOL

DJ is getting better people and now DEN TRULY has the BEST 3 LB's on the field of any NFL 4-3 Defense. For all the Crap Ian gets around here, no one seems to even see the plays he does make. Ian shed two OL to make tackles last night. One on third down. Man you all are a tough crowd.

No kidding. The only thing I can figure is that it's lingering bitterness over his exit in 2004. The guy does nothing but produce and play hard.

[-Slap-]

Ah, the Ian Gold dilemma LOL

DJ is getting better people and now DEN TRULY has the BEST 3 LB's on the field of any NFL 4-3 Defense. For all the Crap Ian gets around here, no one seems to even see the plays he does make. Ian shed two OL to make tackles last night. One on third down. Man you all are a tough crowd.

Linebackers are supposed to shed blocks. Its sad that its noteworthy when Gold manages to simply do his job.

Seattle plays a 4-3 and I would take their linebackers over ours in a heartbeat.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Kenard Lang is looking like a steal. The guy's got speed off the edge and got another sack last night.

On the other side, Foxworth did not impress. He got scorched for a TD--a really bad play, IMO.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Gold still has the speed and it's preseason--ease up. He'll be dependable and part of a dominant unit when the lights are on for real.

[-Slap-]

No kidding. The only thing I can figure is that it's lingering bitterness over his exit in 2004. The guy does nothing but produce and play hard.

No, he also gets blown out at the POA and he celebrates routine tackles like they're goalline stands in the Super Bowl.

[BroncoInferno]

Linebackers are supposed to shed blocks. Its sad that its noteworthy when Gold manages to simply do his job.

Not really. Not in most defenses these days, anyway. Ray Lewis has always been bad at shedding blocks, hence his offseason whining for a wided-bodied tackle to keep him in the clear. Starting really with Jimmy Johnson, the emphasis with the 4-3 has been speed at linebacker, with the lineman taking up blocks. I know you prefer the Parcells approach with the big, lineman sized linebackers, and I respect that view, but Ian Gold is a very good player for this type of defense.

[Drek]

No kidding. The only thing I can figure is that it's lingering bitterness over his exit in 2004. The guy does nothing but produce and play hard.

And collect a paycheck bigger than his production, don't forget that.

Maybe it does tie into his leaving in 2004. Had he shown loyalty to the Broncos I wouldn't have such an issue with overpaying him, but its clear that he's a money first player. That's the standard he has chosen to be measured by after all, so why shouldn't we guage him in terms of what we pay v. what we get? he's not an elite LB, but we pay him elite LB money. When he makes it to the pro-bowl as an OLB then he'll have earned it. Until then he's underperforming.

[BroncoInferno]

No, he also gets blown out at the POA and he celebrates routine tackles like they're goalline stands in the Super Bowl.


I don't see DJ or Al blowing people up at the POA, either. That's not what linebackers are asked or expected to do in this type of defense. I know you don't like this type of defense (at least WRT to how linebackers are used), but that doesn't mean that Gold is not a very good player for what's asked of him.

[BroncoInferno]

And collect a paycheck bigger than his production, don't forget that.

Maybe it does tie into his leaving in 2004. Had he shown loyalty to the Broncos I wouldn't have such an issue with overpaying him, but its clear that he's a money first player. That's the standard he has chosen to be measured by after all, so why shouldn't we guage him in terms of what we pay v. what we get? he's not an elite LB, but we pay him elite LB money. When he makes it to the pro-bowl as an OLB then he'll have earned it. Until then he's underperforming.

He doesn't get paid elite LB money; Peterson got a $15 million bonus, nearly twice what Gold received. Gold's contract paid him 2nd tier money (about an $8 million bonus, I believe); I think he's a second tier player, so the contract was fine.

As far as him not being loyal to the Broncos, give me a break. Players have to make decisions that are in their best interests financially. He didn't think the Broncos were offering anything near what he was worth. He may have been wrong, but he's got to make financial decisions that he thinks will benefit his family long term, and that's what he did. And it paid off; he got a nice contract after proving his knee was OK.

[Mediator12]

Linebackers are supposed to shed blocks. Its sad that its noteworthy when Gold manages to simply do his job.

Seattle plays a 4-3 and I would take their linebackers over ours in a heartbeat.

That is the problem, Slap. People ASSUME he get blown up because of his size, when in fact he does not. Then, he actually makes plays and people cry because it wasn't their favorite LB who actually did it.

As for SEA, they might just be on Par. The Addition of Peterson helps, but Hill and Tatupu are real good. The are better at Blitzing, DEN is better in coverage.

[Rascal]

Man, did he play crazy good tonight or what? Forced fumble, intercepion, tackles for loses and really wrapped up well. He's been better and better each game, too! It looks like he's settling into his role. I think he's going to have a sweet season this year if he keeps this up. He was all over the field and usually somewhere near the ball.

I'd also like to give a shout out to Nate Webster who also made some great plays and once again lost his helmet. I hope he loses his helmet at least once every game when he eventaully plays so we can see his face after he smashes running backs into the turf. :approve:

Dumervil was all over the field too. Looks like -Slap-'s adopt a bronco is proving himself. Sterling Sharpe was really singing his praises and he's no dummy when it comes to football. Great group of guys to have on our team. :)

He made a couple of mistakes though on overreacting and pursuit angles but he played well.

Webster play well.

Didn't notice Dumervil but I quit watching after the third quarter.

Ekuban played well although he did an "O'ley" tackle in the first quarter.

[Rascal]

BTW...is it me or did Darrent get freaking ripped during the offseason. His arms look huge!

I'd still like to know why he was playing off so far on that conversion to moulds in front of him. 1-2 yards to go and he was 8 yards back. WHAT THE ****!!!

[-Slap-]

That is the problem, Slap. People ASSUME he get blown up because of his size, when in fact he does not. Then, he actually makes plays and people cry because it wasn't their favorite LB who actually did it.

I assume he's getting blown out when I see him getting knocked ass over tea kettle. I see it every game and I saw it in this game.

I couldn't care less which linebacker makes a tackle on this team. Gold is overrated individually and they're overrated as a unit.

As for SEA, they might just be on Par. The Addition of Peterson helps, but Hill and Tatupu are real good. The are better at Blitzing, DEN is better in coverage.

Seattle's linebacker's are much better at tackling, too.

[Rascal]

Somebody ban Slap. I've had enough of his insolence.

[-Slap-]

As far as him not being loyal to the Broncos, give me a break. Players have to make decisions that are in their best interests financially. He didn't think the Broncos were offering anything near what he was worth. He may have been wrong, but he's got to make financial decisions that he thinks will benefit his family long term, and that's what he did. And it paid off; he got a nice contract after proving his knee was OK.

Are you going to start lying about this now, or are you actually unaware of how that went down?

You don't remember Ian's tearful hissy fit and refusal to allow Denver to match Tampa's contract offer?

Give me a break.

By the way, FSU was the team that started the twin mammoth DTs and speed everywhere else in the front seven approach, no matter what Breck and SoCal say.

[-Slap-]

Somebody ban Slap. I've had enough of his insolence.

I am pretty insolent today.

:angel:

[bendog]

I'm ok with Gold. Not sure he'd overpaid. I don't like the position shanny put the cap into, that's all. And everytime I see DJ pulled on a passing down, or for Brandon in the "big nickle", I grate my teeth.

[GonzoLays]

I am pretty insolent today.



http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/images/smilies/claps.gif

[Drek]

He doesn't get paid elite LB money; Peterson got a $15 million bonus, nearly twice what Gold received. Gold's contract paid him 2nd tier money (about an $8 million bonus, I believe); I think he's a second tier player, so the contract was fine.

As far as him not being loyal to the Broncos, give me a break. Players have to make decisions that are in their best interests financially. He didn't think the Broncos were offering anything near what he was worth. He may have been wrong, but he's got to make financial decisions that he thinks will benefit his family long term, and that's what he did. And it paid off; he got a nice contract after proving his knee was OK.

Top 11 OLBs by contract (from Pittsburgh Trib)
1. Julian Peterson, Seahawks
$7.71

2. Pete Sirmon, Titans
$7.0

3. Keith Bulluck, Titans
$6.9

4. Keith Brooking, Falcons
$5.8

5. Takeo Spikes, Bills
$5.3

6. Kendrell Bell, Chiefs
$4.7

7. LaVar Arrington, Giants
$4.7

8. Andre Carter, Redskins
$4.6

9. Ian Gold, Broncos
$4.5

10. David Thornton, Titans
$4.5

11. Joey Porter, Steelers
$4.354

Top 10 money is franchise value. If Ian Gold was a free agent would we be willing to tag him? I don't think so. See how he's overpaid now?

[BroncoInferno]

Are you going to start lying about this now, or are you actually unaware of how that went down?

You don't remember Ian's tearful hissy fit and refusal to allow Denver to match Tampa's contract offer?

Yeah, he felt like he had been lied to by the organization. He was definately being unreasonable in expecting the team to pay him as if the knee injury had not happened given all the unknown variables regarding how he'd recover. I agree that he didn't really handle it well, but if people want to hold it against him, so be it. I'm more easy going about these kinds of things than most, I guess.

By the way, FSU was the team that started the twin mammoth DTs and speed everywhere else in the front seven approach, no matter what Breck and SoCal say.

LOL OK, let's just say Johnson is the one who made it popular in the NFL.

[Kaylore]

Top 11 OLBs by contract (from Pittsburgh Trib)
1. Julian Peterson, Seahawks
$7.71

2. Pete Sirmon, Titans
$7.0

3. Keith Bulluck, Titans
$6.9

4. Keith Brooking, Falcons
$5.8

5. Takeo Spikes, Bills
$5.3

6. Kendrell Bell, Chiefs
$4.7

7. LaVar Arrington, Giants
$4.7

8. Andre Carter, Redskins
$4.6

9. Ian Gold, Broncos
$4.5

10. David Thornton, Titans
$4.5

11. Joey Porter, Steelers
$4.354

Top 10 money is franchise value. If Ian Gold was a free agent would we be willing to tag him? I don't think so. See how he's overpaid now?

:spit: I'm sorry, but that's hilarious. Bell isn't even the starter right now. Hilarious!

[Mediator12]

:spit: I'm sorry, but that's hilarious. Bell isn't even the starter right now. Hilarious!

Yeah, he is actually the starter. However, he is just a hedgehog with one trick ROFL! Keyaron Fox, now he is SLY :notworthy

[Requiem]

I think Ian Gold is a good linebacker, but I thought it was absolutely hilarious that we brought Ian back, (after the fiasco post-injury and leaving Denver) and paid him that asinine amount of money. Instead of bringing Gold back, resigning a guy like Reggie Hayward would have meant more sense. Keep DJ at weakside linebacker, hell maybe put up at SAM -- but given Denver's track history (besides Terry Pierce) of findin' backers, I don't think it would have been that hard to find a suitable replacement for Ian Gold.

Still a move that boils my blood to this day. I'm sure SoCal is pissin' razors and is more pissed, but still.

Ian Gold isn't worth that much to this franchise, and it absolutely blew my ****ing mind when we re-signed him to that contract.

[bendog]

:spit: I'm sorry, but that's hilarious. Bell isn't even the starter right now. Hilarious!

And spikes still hasn't tried out his repaied achilles and arrington's got some questions. free agency is wierd.

[Mediator12]

Hayward signed a poison pill contract with JAX. There was no way to keep him even if they wanted too, which they did. Dude goes to JAX and his production is less than the two previous years in DEN and people are still bitching about losing him.

Gold got a good contract that was comparable with the offer they had on the table before he left. That's right. It was just a little less than the contract they had on the table the previous year. He played for a cap value of 1.7 million last year. People pissing about a signing bonus for a guy that helped win several games for the Broncos last year is pure BIAS.

[Antilles]

Speaking of Bad mofos, Adam Meadows didn't look too shabby in his first extended playing time. He wasn't devastating and he's not displacing Foster any time soon, but the tackle depth looks a lot better today than it did yesterday.

[BroncoFanatic]

Kenard Lang is looking like a steal. The guy's got speed off the edge and got another sack last night.

On the other side, Foxworth did not impress. He got scorched for a TD--a really bad play, IMO.
Agreed on both points. Foxy got torched by 3rd stringers too. :-[

[BroncoBuff]

Somebody ban Slap. I've had enough of his insolence.
Hear, hear ... and his steadfast refusal to include smilies in his posts has endeared him to no one.

[ludo21]

Hayward signed a poison pill contract with JAX. There was no way to keep him even if they wanted too, which they did. Dude goes to JAX and his production is less than the two previous years in DEN and people are still b****ing about losing him.

Gold got a good contract that was comparable with the offer they had on the table before he left. That's right. It was just a little less than the contract they had on the table the previous year. He played for a cap value of 1.7 million last year. People pissing about a signing bonus for a guy that helped win several games for the Broncos last year is pure BIAS.



:thumbs: AGREE 100%. Ian has done nothing but make plays and has helped us win games. Why the animosity towards him, i dont know..

Also a team leader.

[BroncoInferno]

Hayward signed a poison pill contract with JAX. There was no way to keep him even if they wanted too, which they did. Dude goes to JAX and his production is less than the two previous years in DEN and people are still b****ing about losing him.

Gold got a good contract that was comparable with the offer they had on the table before he left. That's right. It was just a little less than the contract they had on the table the previous year. He played for a cap value of 1.7 million last year. People pissing about a signing bonus for a guy that helped win several games for the Broncos last year is pure BIAS.

No doubt. The problem with Drek's chart is that base salaries vary from year to year depending on how the deal is structured. Just because Gold's base puts him in the top ten for this particular season does not mean that he is being paid elite money. As you pointed out, the cap figure last season was $1.7 million, probably not even in the top 30 for his position. The contract was basically a second tier contract for his position; he's a second tier player, so it's a fair deal.

[Drek]

Hayward signed a poison pill contract with JAX. There was no way to keep him even if they wanted too, which they did. Dude goes to JAX and his production is less than the two previous years in DEN and people are still b****ing about losing him.

Gold got a good contract that was comparable with the offer they had on the table before he left. That's right. It was just a little less than the contract they had on the table the previous year. He played for a cap value of 1.7 million last year. People pissing about a signing bonus for a guy that helped win several games for the Broncos last year is pure BIAS.

But see Med, you're just proving what I said initially. I have no problems with Gold's deal for last year, or this year for that matter. Its when his cap values go from 1.7M to >4.5M that I have a real problem, which they will as the AAV is $4.5M, you can't just make that money disapear. Thats why I said I hope DJ takes Gold's spot in the Nickle, and that Webster and Cam Vaughn both continue to improve, so that next year or the year after, when Gold's contract will far outweigh his production on the field, we are free to cut him with valid replacements waiting in the wings.

Its not that I think the Gold deal is bad no matter what, I think its bad if the team doesn't make plans to replace him well before it ends. The last couple years of that deal have crazy base salaries. $8.5M isn't a bad signing bonus either, it makes cutting Gold fairly inexpensive within just a year or two. My original comment, which I still stand by, is that we should begin to look for his replacement sooner rather than later, so as to give us the flexability to make that cut as soon as its the best financial move for the organization. Thats only backed up by the fact that Gold is undersized for his position and relies heavily on his speed to make plays. Those two combined seem to make him highly succeptable to a sharp age related decline.

Basically, I don't want to see this team three years down the road starting a slower, older Ian Gold for $5-$6M a season. I think everyone can agree on that, but a big step to avoiding it is DJ taking over one of the Nickle spots sooner than later.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=Drek;1246148] My original comment, which I still stand by, is that we should begin to look for his replacement sooner rather than later, so as to give us the flexability to make that cut as soon as its the best financial move for the organization. QUOTE]

My personal opinion is that the staff should be looking for improvements at every position every year or they are not doing their jobs.

In terms of Ian's escalating cap hit, I am sure his contract will be renogotiated before he becomes a burden on the cap.

[Drek]

My personal opinion is that the staff should be looking for improvements at every position every year or they are not doing their jobs.

In terms of Ian's escalating cap hit, I am sure his contract will be renogotiated before he becomes a burden on the cap.
I doubt we're looking for improvements over Al Wilson or Champ Bailey. Matt Lepsis, Tom Nalen, or Ben Hamilton as well. Obviously if someone breaks out we'll want to play the best guy for the position, but we should be actively seeking to develop an affordable near futrue replacement for Gold.

Also, renegotiating doesn't make the money disapear either. He got a deal with an AAV of $4.5M. Unless Gold is willing to rip up the old deal I don't see how a renegotiation does much, its a heavily backloaded deal already. Do we really want to be extending Gold's deal? He's about the last multiple year starter we have right now that I want on the wrong side of 30.

[bendog]

Hayward signed a poison pill contract with JAX. There was no way to keep him even if they wanted too, which they did. Dude goes to JAX and his production is less than the two previous years in DEN and people are still b****ing about losing him.

Gold got a good contract that was comparable with the offer they had on the table before he left. That's right. It was just a little less than the contract they had on the table the previous year. He played for a cap value of 1.7 million last year. People pissing about a signing bonus for a guy that helped win several games for the Broncos last year is pure BIAS.

Ah, but what did Fischer or Wistrom get? It's not really a personal issue so much as an allocation of cap amongst positions. And the guy Den really needed to keep was Berry, but something pissed him off. I think that was the deal; he just wanted out.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=Drek;1246191]I doubt we're looking for improvements over Al Wilson or Champ Bailey. Matt Lepsis, Tom Nalen, or Ben Hamilton as well.

Sorry, I think you misundertand my point. I do think the staff is always on the lookout to improve every positions, including those you list, even if those they are looking at are for two - three years down the road. The staff knows that a guy like Wilson probably has 2-4 years left, so they are looking at talent currrently developing in the NFL and college underclassmen. However, in the real world the immediate priorities are at other positions and they need to upgrade the team as a whole.

[OrangeShadow]

Hayward signed a poison pill contract with JAX. There was no way to keep him even if they wanted too, which they did. Dude goes to JAX and his production is less than the two previous years in DEN and people are still b****ing about losing him.


Im more pissed about losing berry than reggie

[Cito Pelon]

I think Ian Gold is a good linebacker, but I thought it was absolutely hilarious that we brought Ian back, (after the fiasco post-injury and leaving Denver) and paid him that asinine amount of money. Instead of bringing Gold back, resigning a guy like Reggie Hayward would have meant more sense. Keep DJ at weakside linebacker, hell maybe put up at SAM -- but given Denver's track history (besides Terry Pierce) of findin' backers, I don't think it would have been that hard to find a suitable replacement for Ian Gold.

Still a move that boils my blood to this day. I'm sure SoCal is pissin' razors and is more pissed, but still.

Ian Gold isn't worth that much to this franchise, and it absolutely blew my ****ing mind when we re-signed him to that contract.

It was a head-scratcher alright.

[2KBack]

Hear, hear ... and his steadfast refusal to include smilies in his posts has endeared him to no one.

Actually, I respect that philosophy

[-Slap-]

Speaking of Bad mofos, Adam Meadows didn't look too shabby in his first extended playing time. He wasn't devastating and he's not displacing Foster any time soon, but the tackle depth looks a lot better today than it did yesterday.

Definitely. I can't remember the last time we had this kind of quality depth on the offensive line.

[youcandoit1687]

i loved seeing dumervil drop into coverage, i think that will prove to be very very luxurious. id also like to see him be a blitzing LB, him and chukwurah will be nice to have in some situations.

DJ looked good and that pick was nice. about the only thing i saw gold do was jump all over the place, he has so much enthusiasm jeez. it seems like if anything good happens or there is any reason to be motivated, he is jumping all over like a madman. i hope that he can do better next game and be full go by week 1. webster and my boy vaughn looked good too, didnt see green out there.

[Kaylore]

Definitely. I can't remember the last time we had this kind of quality depth on the offensive line.

Wait 'til you see my Chris Kuper report; He was a beast this game. ;D

[s0phr0syne]

Who was in on left guard on the play where Jay Cut tried to kind of scramble? I know I should be more specific, but there was this play in the 2nd half where the left guard took an oncoming defender and just threw him to the ground behind him (knocking into the left tackle and another defender). It was sweet.

[DeusExManning]

Kenard Lang is looking like a steal. The guy's got speed off the edge and got another sack last night.

On the other side, Foxworth did not impress. He got scorched for a TD--a really bad play, IMO.

Foxworth is a huge concern of mine, I really think teams will start throwing his way, that is what Pittsburgh did.

[2KBack]

Foxworth is a huge concern of mine, I really think teams will start throwing his way, that is what Pittsburgh did.

He's the third corner, he'll hold his own

[Atlas]

Foxworth is a huge concern of mine, I really think teams will start throwing his way, that is what Pittsburgh did.

If he isn't up for the nickle spot than Alexander or Cox will play just fine.

[Mediator12]

I assume he's getting blown out when I see him getting knocked ass over tea kettle. I see it every game and I saw it in this game.

I couldn't care less which linebacker makes a tackle on this team. Gold is overrated individually and they're overrated as a unit.



Seattle's linebacker's are much better at tackling, too.

Slap, I am never going to question your opinion, because it is always solid.

However, HOU ran two plays at Ian last night and he made the tackle on one and blew up the FB on the other. I just want to know which play you are talking about. HOU ran @ DJ all last night and that is why he looked like he was around the ball alot. Plays were run at him.

[WolfpackGuy]

Foxworth is a huge concern of mine, I really think teams will start throwing his way, that is what Pittsburgh did.

My god, the Steelers kept like everybody back for pass protection negating the Broncos blitz schemes. I really don't know why Coyer couldn't figure out the Steelers weren't planning on running the ball from the get go. You can't ask anybody to cover receivers for as long Foxworth was asked to. Even if one of them was Cedric Wilson...

[fontaine]

I really don't know why Coyer couldn't figure out the Steelers weren't planning on running the ball from the get go.


Because it was only the 2nd time in the year that the Steelers put the offense on Roethlisberger and not the running game.

[watermock]

Because Gold is disgustingly overpaid. Its got nothing to do with DJ moving or anything, I'd want DJ to stay at strong side anyways, where his freakish combination of size and speed is a great matchup for TEs around the league in coverage.

Gold is a good OLB, not a great one. He's got clear weaknesses (his size and strength) and clear advantages (speed). The later will disapear as he gets older though while the former will always be a problem. There is simply no point in overpaying Gold when Webster could step in and be as productive, albiet in a different capacity. Gold's value will also drop dramatically if DJ beats him out for the second Nickle spot, as coverage is his forte.

I got no problems with Gold, its simple cap economics, Gold isn't cost effective. Same reason why I hope Cutler steps up and takes Jake's job next year. It'll give us more money down the road to improve the weaker aspects of our team.

Completely erroneous. First, Webster isn't a Will. Second, simply cutting Gold would just make us eat his entire signing bonus. He wouldn't get out the door before Kubak told him he was claimed. Gold looked noticably thicker when he came back. His salary isn't as outrageous as people make out, especially with the new CBA that will have gone up by a third in two years from 2004.

I too don't understand why D.J. playing well and adjusting to Sam has a damn thing to do with Gold whatsoever. My biggest concern with signing Gold wasn't the contract, it was that Williams might bolt at the first opportunity when his contract is up. I'm not saying that Gold won't be cut or released or traded when his back end salary escalates, but his base salary is 670k this year. It bumps to 2.3M in 2007. Forget the signing bonus, that's over with. Fine'..done. People don't seem to realize that salaries have gone up dramatically yet again. I didn't see the game, so I don't know if Gold sucked, took the day off or whatever but simply hating on him because "it's the cool thing do do" is ludicrous.

Before I get jumped yet again...I'm on record that I thought we over paid, but that opinion has tempered with the new CBA. I felt the same thing with our 63 million dollar corner. These players are GROSSLY overpaid. Why do you think a 6 pack of Bud is 7 bucks and non close parking is what again at Fed Ex park? I heard 60 bucks to 100 bucks for close in. I don't know what it is at In your ass go field. Why not just appreciate the fact we have a fine LB crew and that Webster's knee is healed, and Predator can play all 3 spots in a pinch. I'm not positive Chucky will make the roster, but he's terribly versatile. I think he sticks.

[watermock]

Top 11 OLBs by contract (from Pittsburgh Trib)
1. Julian Peterson, Seahawks
$7.71

2. Pete Sirmon, Titans
$7.0

3. Keith Bulluck, Titans
$6.9

4. Keith Brooking, Falcons
$5.8

5. Takeo Spikes, Bills
$5.3

6. Kendrell Bell, Chiefs
$4.7

7. LaVar Arrington, Giants
$4.7

8. Andre Carter, Redskins
$4.6

9. Ian Gold, Broncos
$4.5

10. David Thornton, Titans
$4.5

11. Joey Porter, Steelers
$4.354

Top 10 money is franchise value. If Ian Gold was a free agent would we be willing to tag him? I don't think so. See how he's overpaid now?

That's BS. It includes the signing bonus. I think the rest of his guaranteed money is actually a roster bonus. His salary is 670K this year.

Slappy hates Gold and will always hate Gold. SoCall has manlove for D.J. and feels like Gold committed adultry or something. Denver didn't have to sign Gold. That's the first thing people need to realize. I was surprised, but not really shocked. Again, I was more concerned with losing DJ to FA in a few years than SoCal's bruised ego.

Gold played SAM in which he WAS seriously undersized. If people can see that Gold has added some bulk they are blind. In no way am I saying he's a bruising, physical linebacker either. I'm not a Gold apologist either. I've on record for constantly saying that it's all meat on the hoof for me. Some is baloney, some is ribeye and the prices reflect that. And just like meat, it has a limited shelf life.

I'm just happy that it appears Williams has accepted his role rather than complain about Gold. Hell, I thought the Gold bashing would of stopped after a very good year.

For example, linebacker Ian Gold's base salary jumps from $670000 in 2006 to $2.3 million in 2007, the third year of his deal. Teams will have to figure out ...
www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4191/is_20060226/ai_n16205399 - 27k - Cached - Similar pages

[watermock]

Wait 'til you see my Chris Kuper report; He was a beast this game. ;D

I guess the staff is GaGa over Kupe. :yayaya: Lordie, what a great draft and offseason. Rocket Man is completing 63% with 0 picks, Champ said The Marshall has first round talent, Scheff is blowing up the secondary, Bell, Webster, Lang ect. People were ga ga over Nash last week too. Even Abdullah and Cox have played well. Sounds like DWill came back with guns. That little bastard amazes me. To stand up a RB that outweighed him by 40 pounds...no wonder he tore his groin. That RB wasn't at the line...he had a full head of steam.

Off subject, on big hits. Portis didn't have to make that tackle, and probably shouldn't of...but dayum...he punished that guy. Stood him up. Say what you want about how flakey Clinton is, but he brings it on the field and stays out of trouble off it.

We are going to have about a dozen new players on the active roster, or close.

[watermock]

I don't mean to flood the thread but I have one more comment about Foxworth. It sound like he's been kinda dissapointing...again...all I can go by is the radio, stats and opinions here and elsewhere. I think Fox might still be a little shellshocked from the Pitt game. He got owned just as bad as Roc did against Indy. They treated him like a 25 cent whore. It's going to be tough at safety. Abdullah had one damn killer hit on VY. Cox is playing well.

This team is deep. We just might keep 5 safeties this year. I know they have expanded rosters, but there is so much specialization now. I don't think it would kill the NFL to expand to 55.

[Drek]

Completely erroneous. First, Webster isn't a Will. Second, simply cutting Gold would just make us eat his entire signing bonus. He wouldn't get out the door before Kubak told him he was claimed. Gold looked noticably thicker when he came back. His salary isn't as outrageous as people make out, especially with the new CBA that will have gone up by a third in two years from 2004.

I too don't understand why D.J. playing well and adjusting to Sam has a damn thing to do with Gold whatsoever. My biggest concern with signing Gold wasn't the contract, it was that Williams might bolt at the first opportunity when his contract is up. I'm not saying that Gold won't be cut or released or traded when his back end salary escalates, but his base salary is 670k this year. It bumps to 2.3M in 2007. Forget the signing bonus, that's over with. Fine'..done. People don't seem to realize that salaries have gone up dramatically yet again. I didn't see the game, so I don't know if Gold sucked, took the day off or whatever but simply hating on him because "it's the cool thing do do" is ludicrous.

Before I get jumped yet again...I'm on record that I thought we over paid, but that opinion has tempered with the new CBA. I felt the same thing with our 63 million dollar corner. These players are GROSSLY overpaid. Why do you think a 6 pack of Bud is 7 bucks and non close parking is what again at Fed Ex park? I heard 60 bucks to 100 bucks for close in. I don't know what it is at In your ass go field. Why not just appreciate the fact we have a fine LB crew and that Webster's knee is healed, and Predator can play all 3 spots in a pinch. I'm not positive Chucky will make the roster, but he's terribly versatile. I think he sticks.

Mock, you totally missed the point (as usual). I said that we need to start looking for Gold's replacement now, so that in a year or two when he begins to see base salary escalations we have an option in place. And no, his signing bonus isn't done, its distributed throughout his current deal. We paid a portion of it last season, another portion will be paid this season, every year he's on the roster the amount that will accelerate and hit the cap goes down. Next season he sees a sizable but not unliveable increase in salary, but it only goes up form there. He has some real fat base salary years in the not too distant future, hence the $4.5M AAV that puts him in the top ten highest paid NFL OLBs.

Last year Gold's production was a bargain at $1.7M. He'll make a shade over that this year when you add prorated signing bonus and other bonuses to his base salary, I still like him at that price. In '07 though he gets paid much more in line with his production. By '08 he'll start being overpaid unless he makes a significant step forward in his game.

What I'm suggesting is that we focus on quality OLBs we can develop now that will in a year or two's time be ready to step in and take Gold's place at a much lower price. We developed Gold for two seasons before starting him, we should be looking to do the same for his replacement. The only other options are to keep Gold, likely resulting in being unable to resign DJ (no way we have three LBs with >$4M AAVs), or cutting him with no replacement on the roster, forcing us to use another high pick on an LB, which despite our success with DJ is a hit and miss proposition, and better as a fall back option.

Now I'm not saying the guys on our roster are definate replacements, Webster is slightly older than Gold and Vaughn is better suited to ILB, barring that OLB on the strong side. But Vaughn at least is young enough to have potential that we can develop and maybe strike lightening with. More importantly, I think we need to look at the LB position in the middle part of the next draft. Personally I think we missed our ideal replacement by passing on Terna Nande this year, he's a very similar player to Gold and wasn't drafted until the middle rounds (Gold was a 2nd round pick).

[watermock]

I didn't "miss your point" at all. You made an assertion that I said we shouldn't draft a young OLB. I think we have bigger holes this year in the early rounds. It's just an opinion. I hope that doesn't offend you. I see bigger holes than to worry about Gold right now.

When did I take exception to looking for another eventual Will? His AAV doesn't mean diddly. That's for his agent to brag about. If you want to look it up, his salary is 670K this year, 2.3 next. Why do you think I have a problem cutting line? The AAV assumes he's going to get the numbers at the back of his contract. He will cost about about 3.5 next year. I agree that he might have to be a cap casualty.

Remember around that 4 year in 2008, Plummer is due to get serious checks. Most likely, that rock is lifted off our cap.

I respectfully dissagree. I think we have more important holes to fill than Will LB. I'm perfectly aware that contracts are backloaded. It lets the agents walk around like proud roosters and makes players hang in the wind late in their contracts. It's a completely flawed system that the agents use to fool players with a number that will never be reached.

I have zero problem with Denver getting a prospect with Gold's salary escalating, Wilson getting middle aged and D.J. probably still gnashing his teeth about being forced to Sam. I never said that at all.

[jonny1]

What is the big mystery?

Unless Gold makes the ProBowl this year, perhaps they trade or release him next year, and DJ goes back to the weakside.

Simple.

Unless Shanahan feels that having one of the top three LB groups in the league might be worth keeping around . . .

[elsid13]

What people seem to forget if Gold hadn't left, DJ would have never been on the draft list the FO created

[cutthemdown]

i hope he gets as good at strongside as he looked at weakside. We talked about this long ago in here. Ian Gold is great but he keeps my man off the field. DJ has a chance to be 3 times as good as Gold could ever be. He just has that type of talent IMO.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

i hope he gets as good at strongside as he looked at weakside. We talked about this long ago in here. Ian Gold is great but he keeps my man off the field. DJ has a chance to be 3 times as good as Gold could ever be. He just has that type of talent IMO.

You guys are just going to have to live with the reality that he will be a perennial all pro at SSLB rather than WSLB.

[Rock Chalk]

You guys are just going to have to live with the reality that he will be a perennial all pro at SSLB rather than WSLB.

Ian wont be here in town for more than another year. His speed is the only thing keeping him on the field, because it damn sure aint his tackling.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Ian wont be here in town for more than another year. His speed is the only thing keeping him on the field, because it damn sure aint his tackling.

Could be, but they aren't going to make DJ re-learn the WSLB position once he is the best SSLB in the league

[Kaylore]

I'd like to formally apologize to Elvis Dumervil and Nate Webster for this thread going in the direction it did. I tried to show you guys some love guys, I really did. :pity:

[SoCalBronco]

What is the big mystery?

Unless Gold makes the ProBowl this year, perhaps they trade or release him next year, and DJ goes back to the weakside.



Nope. They arent going to keep bouncing him back and forth. That's stupid. There has to be some continuity in order to allow for development. He's still not going to provide optimum results because of the position he is developing at but still, its development, and we are starting to see some of the positive effects of it this preseason. No going back and forth every year. You dont go from Will to mostly Sam/some Will to all Sam to all Will, that's gay. The only proper approach was Will straight and that is gone, so forget it. Plus, he is going to see right through it as simply a pathetic FO tactic designed to create the impression that the team is trying to act in good faith, when in reality, they are just trying to be nice since its at (or the year before) the final year of the deal. He'll see through all of that garbage and expose it as a fraud. They already tried going that route by saying nice things this offseason in an article and he refused to comment. Good.

[BroncoInferno]

Ian wont be here in town for more than another year. His speed is the only thing keeping him on the field, because it damn sure aint his tackling.

I love it when people just make things up to support flimsy arguments. People just make poor extrapolations like the above because Ian is undersized and they are angry that DJ has not played up to their expectations; unfortunately, there is very little of substance to support such claims. Ian did not miss an exorbitant number of tackles last season. The coaches were certainly more confident in Gold in that regard than DJ, whose misdiagnosis and overpersuit of plays kept him off the field in nickle situations. Fortunately for us, our coaches don't make such baseless claims and actually pay attention to what the players are doing on the field. Because of that, DJ is starting to get the hang of his spot, which will leave us with playmaking ability at all three LB spots.

[jonny1]

Nope. They arent going to keep bouncing him back and forth. That's stupid. There has to be some continuity in order to allow for development. He's still not going to provide optimum results because of the position he is developing at but still, its development, and we are starting to see some of the positive effects of it this preseason. No going back and forth every year. You dont go from Will to mostly Sam/some Will to all Sam to all Will, that's gay. The only proper approach was Will straight and that is gone, so forget it. Plus, he is going to see right through it as simply a pathetic FO tactic designed to create the impression that the team is trying to act in good faith, when in reality, they are just trying to be nice since its at (or the year before) the final year of the deal. He'll see through all of that garbage and expose it as a fraud. They already tried going that route by saying nice things this offseason in an article and he refused to comment. Good.

You didn't take into account my sarcastic last line . . .

The Broncos have what is universally regarded as one of the top LB corps in the league, and people are complaining.

As far as Gold's contract, is there any indication that this front office is going to let the cap get out of control? Ain't gonna happen. If they want to keep DJ around, they will.