Five Years Later, Realignment Works

[Taco John]

Received this as a newsletter item... Thought I'd post it as food for thought.



FIVE YEARS LATER, REALIGNMENT WORKS

Entering its fifth season, the realignment of the NFL into eight divisions of four teams each has proven its efficacy. In its first four years, 26 of the 32 NFL teams have qualified for the playoffs at least once. In that time, 21 different teams have won division titles.

“Looking back on some of the questions about realignment, I think all of those questions have been answered by now,” says JEFF FISHER (pictured), head coach of the Tennessee Titans and co-chairman of the NFL Competition Committee. “The number of teams that have qualified for the playoffs, the variety of different division winners and quality of the postseasons proves that we have a very competitive league. I expect that to continue.”

Following are the teams that have qualified for the playoffs and won their divisions in realignment:



TEAM
PLAYOFF BERTHS
DIVISION TITLES

Indianapolis
4
3

Denver
3
1

Green Bay
3
3

New England
3
3

Philadelphia
3
3

Pittsburgh
3
2

Seattle
3
2

Atlanta
2
1

Carolina
2
1

New York Giants
2
1

New York Jets
2
1

St. Louis
2
1

Tampa Bay
2
2

Tennessee
2
1

Baltimore
1
1

Chicago
1
1

Cincinnati
1
1

Cleveland
1
0

Dallas
1
0

Jacksonville
1
0

Kansas City
1
1

Minnesota
1
0

Oakland
1
1

San Diego
1
1

San Francisco
1
1

Washington
1
0

[Dagmar]

I have only ever known it this way, what did it used to be like?
I have a Seahawk fan I work with who says we used to be in the same division?? How does that work, if they are an NFC team?

[BigPlayShay]

I have only ever known it this way, what did it used to be like?
I have a Seahawk fan I work with who says we used to be in the same division?? How does that work, if they are an NFC team?

They moved from the AFC West to the NFC West. Here were the divisons before the realignment:

http://www.nfl.com/standings/2001/regular

[MechanicalBull]

I have only ever known it this way, what did it used to be like?
I have a Seahawk fan I work with who says we used to be in the same division?? How does that work, if they are an NFC team?

The Seahawks used to be in the AFC west but switched over to the NFC. As part of the realignment I believe back in 2002.

[BroncoBuff]

I have only ever known it this way, what did it used to be like?
I have a Seahawk fan I work with who says we used to be in the same division?? How does that work, if they are an NFC team?
GOOD HEAVENS, AMIGO!

What are you, 12?! :welcome:

Seriously, Until 4 or 5 years ago, Seattle was in the AFC West ... and there were no "South" divisions or "North" divisions ... just CENTRAL.

[BigPlayShay]

The Seahawks used to be in the AFC west but switched over to the NFC. As part of the realignment I believe back in 2002.

Right, with the addition of the Houston Texans franchise it brought the league to 32 teams form 31.

I like it the way it is now, and with realignment I don't think any of the great rivalries were broken up.

[Dagmar]

GOOD HEAVENS, AMIGO!

What are you, 12?! :welcome:

Seriously, Until 4 or 5 years ago, Seattle was in the AFC West ... and there were no "South" divisions or "North" divisions ... just CENTRAL.

Only moved to America in 2003!

[BroncoBuff]

And of course, you're the undisputed YOUNGEST OF AMIGOS!

What ... 23?

Where did'ja move from, and how did you acquire such an American football expertise so quickly?

[Hotrod]

I prefer it that way it is myself. We still have 3 division rivals with history and yet we get more games outside the division. More chances to see other teams and what they are all about.

[bfoflcommish]

I have only ever known it this way, what did it used to be like?
I have a Seahawk fan I work with who says we used to be in the same division?? How does that work, if they are an NFC team?


Well it was alot like last year, but add 1 more team to the twice a year beatings!

[Dagmar]

Anyways...back to the point of the thread.
(thanks for your help guys)

You can't argue with results. 26 playoff teams since. I assume it was more biased before? Of course the superbowl always ends up in NE...

Buff, I got here in December 2003, and when I start following a sport I though myself in full blast! (hence all of the annoying questions that made up most of my first posts, and some of my recent!)

So who hasn't been to the playoffs? New Orleans, Detroit, Buffalo... Who am I missing?

[Taco John]

My favorite thing about that list is where the Broncos are in relation to the rest of the AFC West.

[BroncoBuff]

I like the way the geographical alignment works now ... The old-fashioned Black-and-Blue division is back to charter-members Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit and Chicago ... and odd-man Tampa has started excellent rivalries in the South with Atl, Carolina and NO.

The old charter-member AFC West is back, too. I live in Seattle, and nobody complains here either ...

Maybe Miami would be better in South, Baltimore in East and Indy in North ... but that would kill too many great rivalries. The way they did it was perfect. They only lost one good rivaly ... in fact, I don't even remember which one.

[BroncoBuff]

My favorite thing about that list is where the Broncos are in relation to the rest of the AFC West.
Wow ... in the 4 years of realignment, each team has won the AFC West Division ONCE.

But none of the others have been Wild Cards, and we have twice .... nice.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Wow ... in the 4 years of realignment, each team has won the AFC West Division ONCE.

But none of the others have been Wild Cards, and we have twice .... nice.

Gotta love Mike Shanahan.

[Dagmar]

My favorite thing about that list is where the Broncos are in relation to the rest of the AFC West.

You mean near the top of our game, set for the next few years after 2 awesome drafts with another to come next year? All thanks to the 'skins!

[-Slap-]

FIVE YEARS LATER, REALIGNMENT WORKS

Entering its fifth season, the realignment of the NFL into eight divisions of four teams each has proven its efficacy. In its first four years, 26 of the 32 NFL teams have qualified for the playoffs at least once. In that time, 21 different teams have won division titles.

“Looking back on some of the questions about realignment, I think all of those questions have been answered by now,” says JEFF FISHER (pictured), head coach of the Tennessee Titans and co-chairman of the NFL Competition Committee. “The number of teams that have qualified for the playoffs, the variety of different division winners and quality of the postseasons proves that we have a very competitive league. I expect that to continue.”

Man, that's a stupid and simplistic conclusion.

I can't wait for the first 7-9 division winner. I pray for it to happen every year.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I can't wait for the first 7-9 division winner. I pray for it to happen every year.
It happens annually in the NBA, its only a matter of time before the NFC North ruins someone's quality season.

[Atlas]

I have only ever known it this way, what did it used to be like?
I have a Seahawk fan I work with who says we used to be in the same division?? How does that work, if they are an NFC team?

WOW Dagmar how old are you?? Your just a pup.

[Atlas]

I haven't given the new alignment really any thought so I guess it does work, I had some concerns over it when it was first revealed. I thought there would be a lot of division winners that had worse records than other teams that didn't make the playoffs. That hasn't turned out to be the case though.

[Dagmar]

WOW Dagmar how old are you?? Your just a pup.

Again, not young (25) just a foreigner!

[Arkansas Bronco]

Only moved to America in 2003!
Well I am glad once you moved here you chose the best team to root for and found the best board. Sorry back to topic.
I think things have worked out well. It does spread it out alot more. Although alot of this also comes from the parity off the teams as well.

[Crushaholic]

Man, that's a stupid and simplistic conclusion.

I agree with that. Realignment made sure most of the big rivalries stayed the same. Free agency and frequent coach turnover contributed more to the parity.

[Tyrant]

My only complaint in the process was the playoffs. I liked it when the top wild card team could host a playoff game...

Would Denver have won in 97 with three straight road games??

Who knows. I still drop AFC Central references all the time though. I can't believe it has been 5 years. Back in the late 80's early 90's I used to get sick at the thought of road trips into the Kingdome. Seemed like they always had Denver's number up there.

[BroncoBuff]

I haven't given the new alignment really any thought so I guess it does work, I had some concerns over it when it was first revealed. I thought there would be a lot of division winners that had worse records than other teams that didn't make the playoffs. That hasn't turned out to be the case though.
46 ...

45 ...

44 ...

[Rock Chalk]

Anyways...back to the point of the thread.
(thanks for your help guys)

You can't argue with results. 26 playoff teams since. I assume it was more biased before? Of course the superbowl always ends up in NE...

Buff, I got here in December 2003, and when I start following a sport I though myself in full blast! (hence all of the annoying questions that made up most of my first posts, and some of my recent!)

So who hasn't been to the playoffs? New Orleans, Detroit, Buffalo... Who am I missing?
Good lord son, so much history.

The "modern" NFL, that is, the merging of the old NFL and the AFL started with these teams in 1966.

CAPITOL DIVISION
Dallas Cowboys
New Orleans Saints
Philadelphia Eagles
Washington Redskins

CENTURY DIVISION
Cleveland Browns
New York Giants
Pittsburgh Steelers
St. Louis Cardinals

WESTERN CONFERENCE CENTRAL DIVISION
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings

COSTAL DIVISION
Atlanta Falcons
Baltimore Colts
Los Angeles Rams
San Francisco 49ers

It wasnt until 1970 however that the AFC and NFC were set up originally as follows:
AMERICAN CONFERENCE

EAST DIVISION
Baltimore Colts
Boston Patiots
Buffalo Bills
Miami Dolphins
New York Jets

CENTRAL DIVISION
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Houston Oilers
Pittsburgh Steelers

WEST DIVISION
Denver Broncos
Kansas City Cheifs
Oakland Raiders
San Diego Chargers


NATIONAL CONFERENCE

EAST DIVISION
Dallas Cowboys
New York Giants
Philadelphia Eagles
St. Louis Cardinals
Washington Redskins

CENTRAL DIVISION
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings

WEST DIVISION
Atlanta Falcons
New Orleans Saints
Los Angeles Rams
San Francisco 49ers

1971, Boston Patriots move to Crapborough and become the New England Patsies.

1974: Tampa Bay is awarded a franchise by the NFL and begins play in 1976 in the AFC West and switch to the NFC Central in 1977

Seattle is awarded a franchise by the NFL and begins play in 1976 in the NFC West and switch to the AFC West in 1977

1977
Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers switch to current (at the time) conferences (Seahawks to the AFC West and Buccaneers to NFC Central)

1982
The Oakland Raiders move to Los Angeles

1984
The Baltimore Colts move to Indianapolis

1988
The St. Louis Cardinals move to Phoenix

1993
The Carolina Panthers are awarded an NFL franchise to begin play in 1995

The Jacksonville Jaguars are awarded an NFL franchise to begin play in 1995

1994
The Phoenix Cardinals are renamed the Arizona Cardinals

1995
The Los Angeles Rams moved to St. Louis

The Los Angeles Raiders move back to Oakland

1996
The Cleveland Browns move to Baltimore to begin play in 1996 as the Baltimore Ravens (however, the city of Cleveland retains the rights to the Browns name, logo, team colors and memorabilia rights)

1997
The Houston Oilers move to Memphis and become the Tennessee Oilers

1998
Cleveland granted franchise, to be named the Cleveland Browns, and will begin play in 1999

The Tennessee Oilers move from Memphis to Nashville.

The New England Patriots announce their intention to move to Hartford

Now...the history of the current NFL teams.


1920 - Decatur Staleys (now Chicago Bears) and Chicago Cardinals (now Arizona Cardinals)

1921 - Green Bay Packers

1925 - New York Giants

1930 - Portsmouth-OH Spartans (now Detroit Lions)

1932 - Boston Braves (now Washington Redskins)

1933 - Philadelphia Eagles and Pittsburgh Pirates (now Steelers)

1937 - Cleveland Rams (now St. Louis)

1950 - Added AAFC's Cleveland Browns and San Francisco 49ers

1953 - Baltimore Colts (now Indianapolis)

1960 - Dallas Cowboys

1961 - Minnesota Vikings

1966 - Atlanta Falcons

1967 - New Orleans Saints

1970 - Added AFL's Boston Patriots (now New England), Buffalo Bills, Cincinnati Bengals (1968 expansion team), Denver Broncos, Houston Oilers, Kansas City Chiefs, Miami Dolphins (1966 expansion team), New York Jets, Oakland Raiders and San Diego Chargers (the AFL-NFL merger divided the league into two 13-team conferences with old-line NFL clubs Baltimore, Cleveland and Pittsburgh moving to the AFC)

1976 - Seattle Seahawks and Tampa Bay Buccaneers

1995 - Carolina Panthers and Jacksonville Jaguars

1997 - Baltimore Ravens

2001 - Houston Texans

Defunct NFL Franchises
Akron (Ohio) - Pros (1920-25) and Indians (1926)

Baltimore - Colts (1950)

Boston - Bulldogs (1926) and Yanks (1944-48)

Brooklyn - Lions (1926), Dodgers (1930-43) and Tigers (1944)

Buffalo - All-Americans (1921-23), Bisons (1924-25), Rangers (1926) and Bisons (1927,1929)

Canton (Ohio) - Bulldogs (1920-23,1925-26)

Chicago - Tigers (1920)

Cincinnati - Celts (1921) and Reds (1933-34)

Cleveland - Tigers (1920-21), Indians (1923), Bulldogs (1924-25,1927), Indians (1931) and Browns (1950-95)

Columbus (Ohio) - Panhandles (1920-22) and Tigers (1923-26)

Dallas - Texans (1952)

Dayton (Ohio) - Triangles (1920-29).

Detroit - Heralds (1920-21), Panthers (1925-26) and Wolverines (1928)

Duluth (Minnesota) - Kelleys (1923-25) and Eskimos (1926-27)

Evansville (Indiana) - Crimson Giants (1921-22)

Frankford (Pennsylvania) - Yellow Jackets (1924-31)

Hammond (Indiana) - Pros (1920-26)

Hartford (Conneticut) - Blues (1926)

Kansas City - Blues (1924) and Cowboys (1925-26)

Kenosha (Wisconsin) - Maroons (1924)

Los Angeles - Buccaneers (1926)

Louisville­Brecks (1921-23) and Colonels (1926)

Marion (Ohio) - Oorang Indians (1922-23)

Milwaukee - Badgers (1922-26)

Minneapolis - Marines (1922-24) and Red Jackets (1929-30)

Muncie (Indiana) Flyers (1920-21)

New York - Giants (1921), Yankees (1927-28), Bulldogs (1949) and Yankees (1950-51)

Newark (New Jersey) - Tornadoes (1930)

Orange (New Yersey) - Tornadoes (1929)

Pottsville (Pennsylvania) - Maroons (1925-28)

Providence (Rhode Island) - Steam Roller (1925-31)

Racine (Wisconsin) - Legion (1922-24) and Tornadoes (1926)

Rochester (New York) - Jeffersons (1920-25)

Rock Island (Illinois) - Independents (1920-25)

Staten Island (New York) - Stapletons (1929-32)

St. Louis - All-Stars (1923) and Gunners (1934)

Toledo (Ohio) - Maroons (1922-23)

Tonawanda (New York) -Kardex (1921), also called Lumbermen

Washington - Senators (1921)

Stupid SoCal's Link: http://www.football.com/history/index.shtml#genealogy

[TexanBob]

So, in other words, realignment has led to four years of mediocrity, right?

[Rock Chalk]

So, in other words, realignment has led to four years of mediocrity, right?
Not for Denver.

Let's see, 4 years, 3 playoff appearances, 1 Conference title game.

New England, Philly, Indy and Denver have all had great success under the new format.

This kind of comment shows the spoiled bratness of Bronco fans. Other teams wallow year in and year in out mediocrity like KC, Jokeland, SD, Houston, Miami, hell pretty much everyone other than the four teams I mentioned.

Successful seasons are defined by Superbowls yes, that's one way. But winning records and playoff appearances is more of a successful season to most teams.

Id say Denver has been successful over the past four years. With or without a Superbowl title. Afterall, we went some 30 years without a Superbowl title and thought the team successful, why is the last 4 any different than the first 30?

[listopencil]

Man, that's a stupid and simplistic conclusion.

I can't wait for the first 7-9 division winner. I pray for it to happen every year.


I can't wait for something a little different...I can't wait to see a team lose every division game but win the others to finish 10-6. Then for that team to win the division because everybody else finished 9-7 or worse. I'm going to laugh my ass off (unless it happens to us) because one of my primary bitching points about re-alignment was that it moved some of the emphasis away from how a team does in it's own division. I also think the NFL should have gone completely geographic in assigning teams to a division and done away with Conferences entirely. Seeding based on league-wide finish and the best two teams battle it out in the end.

[Rock Chalk]

I can't wait for something a little different...I can't wait to see a team lose every division game but win the others to finish 10-6. Then for that team to win the division because everybody else finished 9-7 or worse. I'm going to laugh my ass off (unless it happens to us) because one of my primary b****ing points about re-alignment was that it moved some of the emphasis away from how a team does in it's own division. I also think the NFL should have gone completely geographic in assigning teams to a division and done away with Conferences entirely. Seeding based on league-wide finish and the best two teams battle it out in the end.
I like the conferences.

But I like the idea of seeding based on record regardless of division and division winners not gauranteed a home game. Top 4 records (top 2 getting a by) get a home game. Maybe sometimes two teams from one division get home games while another division winner is a wild card.

This prevents pussified divisions for getting an auto-home game because they won a crappy division against crappy teams only to bow out against a superior opponent who was faced against superior teams in a superior division but came up just short of the division title.

a 10-6 division winner (say New England last year in the worst division in the AFC) should not have gotten a home game against a 10-6 or 11-5 team that was a wildcard in a much tougher division IMO.

[Arkie]

Not for Denver.

Let's see, 4 years, 3 playoff appearances, 1 Conference title game.

New England, Philly, Indy and Denver have all had great success under the new format.

This kind of comment shows the spoiled bratness of Bronco fans. Other teams wallow year in and year in out mediocrity like KC, Jokeland, SD, Houston, Miami, hell pretty much everyone other than the four teams I mentioned.

Successful seasons are defined by Superbowls yes, that's one way. But winning records and playoff appearances is more of a successful season to most teams.

Id say Denver has been successful over the past four years. With or without a Superbowl title. Afterall, we went some 30 years without a Superbowl title and thought the team successful, why is the last 4 any different than the first 30?

These are the most true words in the entire thread, maybe entire board

[-Slap-]

The League should have capped at 30 teams. Six divisions with five teams in each. That should have been the absolute maximum. Expansion has watered down every professional sports league.

[BroncoBuff]

I can't wait for the first 7-9 division winner. I pray for it to happen every year.
Yup, me too .... I wanna see everybody screaming for different home-field advantage rules too. Just like the Nuggets-Clippers series this year...

[BroncoBuff]

I haven't given the new alignment really any thought so I guess it does work, I had some concerns over it when it was first revealed. I thought there would be a lot of division winners that had worse records than other teams that didn't make the playoffs. That hasn't turned out to be the case though.
26...

25...

24...

[Atlas]

26...

25...

24...

What the hell are you doing??

[BroncoBuff]

Uhh Shhhh! ::)

[BroncoBuff]

What the hell are you doing??
24 ...

23 ...

22 ...


::) Shhhh! Uhh

[Atlas]

24 ...

23 ...

22 ...


::) Shhhh! Uhh


I get it now. Yeah Shhhhh..
Go to bed and get some sleep!!!

[BroncoBuff]

So Alec ... how many ORIGINAL AFL teams are in the same city with the same name, etc....

DENVER
BUFFALO
JETS
MIAMI

Is that it? Bengals? Can't count Raiders, cause they were in LA...

Chargers started as LA Chargers ...
Chiefs started as the Dallas Texans ...
Titans and NE moved (though NE not far)
Steelers, Browns, Browns/Ravens, Colts all moved from NFL into AFC ...

[BroncoBuff]

I get it now. Yeah Shhhhh..
Go to bed and get some sleep!!!
Are you KIDDING?

It's FRIDAY NIGHT, and I've just started to ROAR! :~ohyah!:

[Kaylore]

I have only ever known it this way, what did it used to be like?
I have a Seahawk fan I work with who says we used to be in the same division?? How does that work, if they are an NFC team? He's right. There were five in our division. They were originally an AFC team but moved the whole division into the NFC West to ballance the teams. Elway had some of his best games again the Hawks.

[Atlas]

He's right. There were five in our division. They were originally an AFC team but moved the whole division into the NFC West to ballance the teams. Elway had some of his best games again the Hawks.


You know the Seahags were happy as hell in getting out of the AFC West! They are in the easiest division in the NFL Now.

[Rock Chalk]

So Alec ... how many ORIGINAL AFL teams are in the same city with the same name, etc....

DENVER
BUFFALO
JETS
MIAMI

Is that it? Bengals? Can't count Raiders, cause they were in LA...

Chargers started as LA Chargers ...
Chiefs started as the Dallas Texans ...
Titans and NE moved (though NE not far)
Steelers, Browns, Browns/Ravens, Colts all moved from NFL into AFC ...
Technically, Oakland. They did move but they moved back.

Ive known this for a while, but I still cant believe that the Cardinals are one of the two oldest teams. Originally they began as the Morgan Athletic Club in 1898, then named the Normals, the Racine Cardinals, Chicago Cardinals, St. Louis Cardinals, Phoenix Cardinals and now the Arizona Cardinals.

Since 1948, their last appearance in a title game (winning in 1947) this franchise has finished first in their division exactly two times (74 and 75). Since 1920 when the APFA(2 years later becoming the NFL) was officially created, they have 5 division titles. Finishing 2nd (solely or tied) only 6 times and finishing 3rd or worst every other time.

So, 11 good years out of (counting from 1920) 87 years of playing football.

Its safe to say this is the worst franchise in the history of sports. I find it incredible that other teams have went defunct, but this piece of turd franchise just marches on.

This is their glorious all time record: 448-648-38 2-5 in Post Season play

How sad is that?

[Taco John]

I can't wait for something a little different...I can't wait to see a team lose every division game but win the others to finish 10-6. Then for that team to win the division because everybody else finished 9-7 or worse. I'm going to laugh my ass off (unless it happens to us) because one of my primary b****ing points about re-alignment was that it moved some of the emphasis away from how a team does in it's own division. I also think the NFL should have gone completely geographic in assigning teams to a division and done away with Conferences entirely. Seeding based on league-wide finish and the best two teams battle it out in the end.



This is exactly why I'm in favor of a series format that has each team playing their division rivals three times each in the season.

[BroncoBuff]

Three times doesn't leave many weeks for other opponents ...

[-Slap-]

This is exactly why I'm in favor of a series format that has each team playing their division rivals three times each in the season.
I would hate that. Unbalanced home/road schedule, plus, what if a team is in a crap division? Its bad enough when a team gets six easy games a year, but nine soft touches?

[Taco John]

I would hate that. Unbalanced home/road schedule, plus, what if a team is in a crap division? Its bad enough when a team gets six easy games a year, but nine soft touches?



The playoffs should be the great equalizer for soft conferences... But to add, I think we should shorten the preseason by three games, and use those to add the additional three divisional games. Personally, I think it would make some conferences that much more compelling. I would also encourage increasing the rosters by 7 more players.

[bamanjam]

Seahawks wouldn't of made the Super Bowl coming out of the AFC, let alone the AFC west, if they were still in the division...

You know the Seahags were happy as hell in getting out of the AFC West! They are in the easiest division in the NFL Now.

[Rock Chalk]

He's right. There were five in our division. They were originally an AFC team but moved the whole division into the NFC West to ballance the teams. Elway had some of his best games again the Hawks.

The seahawks ORIGINALLY were an NFC team and Tampa was in the AFC. The two teams switched conferences and then when Houston was added Seattle moved BACK to the NFC.

[-Slap-]

The playoffs should be the great equalizer for soft conferences... But to add, I think we should shorten the preseason by three games, and use those to add the additional three divisional games. Personally, I think it would make some conferences that much more compelling. I would also encourage increasing the rosters by 7 more players.

Charlie O Finley has a kindred spirit here.

[ØrangeÇrush]

I like the way the geographical alignment works now ... The old-fashioned Black-and-Blue division is back to charter-members Green Bay, Minnesota, Detroit and Chicago ... and odd-man Tampa has started excellent rivalries in the South with Atl, Carolina and NO.

The old charter-member AFC West is back, too. I live in Seattle, and nobody complains here either ...

Maybe Miami would be better in South, Baltimore in East and Indy in North ... but that would kill too many great rivalries. The way they did it was perfect. They only lost one good rivaly ... in fact, I don't even remember which one.

It was Green Bay, Tampa Bay....which wasn't that great of a rivalry anyways.

[TexanBob]

So Alec ... how many ORIGINAL AFL teams are in the same city with the same name, etc....

DENVER
BUFFALO
JETS
MIAMI

Is that it? Bengals? Can't count Raiders, cause they were in LA...

Chargers started as LA Chargers ...
Chiefs started as the Dallas Texans ...
Titans and NE moved (though NE not far)
Steelers, Browns, Browns/Ravens, Colts all moved from NFL into AFC ...

The original eight AFL teams in 1960 were:

Boston Patriots (now New England)
Buffalo Bills
Dallas Texans (now Kansas City Chiefs)
Denver Broncos
Houston Oilers (now Tennessee Titans)
Los Angeles Chargers (now San Diego)
New York Titans (renamed Jets)
Oakland Raiders (were L.A. Raiders then moved back)

Miami Dolphins and Cincinnati Bengals were AFL expansion teams in the late 1960s.

So, technically, only two of the orginial eight have kept the same name as when they first began and have never moved outside the metro area they began in or changed names.

[TexanBob]

Not for Denver.

This kind of comment shows the spoiled bratness of Bronco fans.

I disagree considering the Broncos have only ONE playoff victory during that time.

Other teams wallow year in and year in out mediocrity like KC, Jokeland, SD, Houston, Miami

Houston is not mediocre. It would be a compliment to call them mediocre. Oakland got to a Super Bowl. KC and SD both had one special year but have otherwise been mediocre. So that really leaves Miami from your list.

My real point was to say that there are very few teams that have sustained themselves well over that time frame without some severe ups or downs. Denver is one of the few that hasn't yet in two of the four years, they snuck in with the last wild card berth and Indy quickly showed them they didn't belong in the same class as the the top playoff teams.

If that makes me a spoiled brat, so be it. I'm just looking at the facts. We've been above average during the last four years but we certainly haven't been in a position to feel spoiled.

My comment wasn't really aimed at the Broncos anyway. It's aimed at teams like the Bengals, Bears, Jets, Ravens, Falcons, Vikings, Redskins, etc.

[Taco John]

Charlie O Finley has a kindred spirit here.



Tell me you wouldn't love to see the game played with orange footballs. I dare you. Nyah!

[-Slap-]

That's pretty good........:D

[Clockwork Orange]

Didn't he also have the great idea to have fans hold up signs to tell the team when to steal, bunt, etc. for a game?

[Rock Chalk]

I disagree considering the Broncos have only ONE playoff victory during that time.



Houston is not mediocre. It would be a compliment to call them mediocre. Oakland got to a Super Bowl. KC and SD both had one special year but have otherwise been mediocre. So that really leaves Miami from your list.

My real point was to say that there are very few teams that have sustained themselves well over that time frame without some severe ups or downs. Denver is one of the few that hasn't yet in two of the four years, they snuck in with the last wild card berth and Indy quickly showed them they didn't belong in the same class as the the top playoff teams.

If that makes me a spoiled brat, so be it. I'm just looking at the facts. We've been above average during the last four years but we certainly haven't been in a position to feel spoiled.

My comment wasn't really aimed at the Broncos anyway. It's aimed at teams like the Bengals, Bears, Jets, Ravens, Falcons, Vikings, Redskins, etc.

Cry me a ****ing river.

Go be a Browns fan since the realignment or a SF fan and then you might be able to complain.

Fact: Denver has made the playoffs every year except 1 since realignment. Very few teams in the NFL have done that. THat's not mediocre bud thats upper echelon.

So, we have only won one. Waaa. Cry some more about it. At least we haven't fielded mediocre teams going 8-8 and 9-7 every single year or worse.

Spoiled brat.

[-Slap-]

Didn't he also have the great idea to have fans hold up signs to tell the team when to steal, bunt, etc. for a game?

Charlie wanted multiple DHs in the lineup, too. He wanted to specialize the sport in much the way football has evolved, if you want to call it that.

I think his most radical version of that proposal called for a team comprised of fielders and four separate DHs, who would presumably get upwards of 10-12 ABs a game. I think this plan also incorporated liberal use of pinch runners, too.

Real surprised that one didn't fly.

[BroncoBuff]

Taco John][/B]
Tell me you wouldn't love to see the game played with orange footballs. I dare you. Nyah!


http://www.epinions.com/images/opti/71/34/sprtAllFootballSpalding_XFL_Sewn_Rubber_Mini_Footb all_62_4631-resized200.jpg http://www.anacondasports.com/images/content/cust/SHEET10_3_sml.jpg


He Hate Them ...

[Cito Pelon]

Cry me a ****ing river.

Go be a Browns fan since the realignment or a SF fan and then you might be able to complain.

Fact: Denver has made the playoffs every year except 1 since realignment. Very few teams in the NFL have done that. THat's not mediocre bud thats upper echelon.

So, we have only won one. Waaa. Cry some more about it. At least we haven't fielded mediocre teams going 8-8 and 9-7 every single year or worse.

Spoiled brat.

Spoiled brat here, reporting. I don't like the Broncos being in the class of teams that are just good enough to make the playoffs, then get spanked and sent home. Last year, they were at home and got spanked. That's 4 spankings out of 5 playoff games. I don't mind 4 playoff losses out of 5 tries, it's the horrible playoff performances across the board, from top to bottom that are intolerable.