Did Shanahan purposely sent Lelie to the worst "passing" signal caller in the league? [Archive] - The Orange Mane

elsid13

08-24-2006, 09:24 PM

Where is the option that Boob creates better threads than waffle

You have give Waffle a break. Stalking Big Ben is hard work, evading security and while leaving naked picture of himself all over Big Ben's house is tough. And that doesn't include all those hours he spent in vigil, praying that the plastic surgery was successful. While Bobo is just sitting in the dark in his parent's basement thinking up things to prove he is a dumb ass

DivineLegion

08-24-2006, 09:47 PM

You have give Waffle a break. Stalking Big Ben is hard work, evading security and while leaving naked picture of himself all over Big Ben's house is tough. And that doesn't include all those hours he spent in vigil, praying that the plastic surgery was successful. While Bobo is just sitting in the dark in his parent's basement thinking up things to prove he is a dumb ass

ummm....its not Big Ben anymore. Look at his signiture and avatar, Its our boy Jay Cutler now. Aparently Waffles a Broncos fan again...or he just thinks Jay Cutler is more attractive then Big Ben.

WABronco

08-24-2006, 09:51 PM

Yea...Atlanta and Washington "just happened" to match up. I'm sure that was secondary to Shanny anyways...

*shakes head*

Malcontent

08-24-2006, 10:46 PM

If Lelie thinks Jake was bad, wait until he get a hold of the Michael Vick experience. Ha! His numbers will be worse with Atlanta. I see him being the next Peerless Price.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Nice freaking grammar. 3rd grade a little too tough for ya PUNK???

Taco John

08-24-2006, 10:48 PM

Did Shanahan purposely sent Lelie to the worst "passing" signal caller in the league?

Just when I think you've dropped the dumbest take you could possibly offer, you out-do yourself.

cutthemdown

08-24-2006, 11:09 PM

forget about it

Los Broncos

08-24-2006, 11:30 PM

No more ashley threads please! He gone and its over, lets move on.

-Slap-

08-24-2006, 11:31 PM

We sent a deep threat to a quarterback with one of the strongest arms in the League.

ludo21

08-24-2006, 11:37 PM

We sent a deep threat to a quarterback with one of the strongest arms in the League.

REP!!

Altho Vick is a poor QB, he can heave the rock.

It sucks Lelie wont be able to prove his route running skills, but he will be able to catch the deep ball often.

WaffleBoy

08-24-2006, 11:52 PM

We sent a deep threat to a quarterback with one of the strongest arms in the League.

...... who can't hit the side of a barn.

The Boy Wonder :super:

BroncoInferno

08-25-2006, 07:24 AM

We sent a deep threat to a quarterback with one of the strongest arms in the League.

And who completed only 12 passes of 25 yards or more last season...good for dead last in the league among starters. His arm is definately strong, but it doesn't seem to do him much good when a football is in his hand.

elsid13

08-25-2006, 07:32 AM

ummm....its not Big Ben anymore. Look at his signiture and avatar, Its our boy Jay Cutler now. Aparently Waffles a Broncos fan again...or he just thinks Jay Cutler is more attractive then Big Ben.

Thanks for pointing that out. I guess the plastic surgery wasn't to Waffle liking at all.

SteveTensi13

08-25-2006, 10:16 AM

Who is this "Ashley" you speak of?

Hotrod

08-25-2006, 10:21 AM

Ashly is in Faidervill???

obediah

08-25-2006, 10:47 AM

I would be glad to never see anything about lelie again..

Obediah

Tredici

08-25-2006, 11:10 AM

Im sorry but I voted yes, in reality none of us know what all the offers were but since the demand was a 2nd+ and then this happened, I think it was about HAHA see what the $%#@ you can do now.

I think when it's all over with and you add up the NFL formula for pick value in what Denver receives it will be exactly what Shanahan said he would let Ashley go for. No less.

Atlanta/Washington paid the asking price. Adios Ashley.

Taco John

08-25-2006, 11:20 AM

Shanahan isn't going to go out of his way to screw a player over. He's not interested in developing the kind of reputation that is going to hurt him down the road with free agent veterans. He simply stuck to his guns on the value that he said that he wanted for Lelie, and when the situation finally presented itself, his guy (Sundquist) pulled the trigger.

Crushaholic

08-25-2006, 12:45 PM

Can we ban Waffle Boy for starting a Lelie thread?:yayaya:

loborugger

08-25-2006, 01:16 PM

Topic for new thread.

Which is lamer? Another Lelie thread or another Waffle poll.

WaffleBoy

08-25-2006, 03:19 PM

Shanahan isn't going to go out of his way to screw a player over.

right.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Taco John

08-25-2006, 03:23 PM

right.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Great take. I really see your point now.

WaffleBoy

08-25-2006, 03:33 PM

Great take. I really see your point now.

You don't think Shanny could have gotten a 3rd round pick from Philly? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why Shanny wasn't interested in making a deal with Philly.

- Better QB,
- same system (learning curve shorten),
- they way Philly loves to toss the ball around, Lelie could have produced some real numbers.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Atlas

08-25-2006, 05:14 PM

You don't think Shanny could have gotten a 3rd round pick from Philly? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why Shanny wasn't interested in making a deal with Philly.

- Better QB,
- same system (learning curve shorten),
- they way Philly loves to toss the ball around, Lelie could have produced some real numbers.

The Boy Wonder :super:

The Eagles are known for their stingyness in making trades. They always try to get something for very little that's why the Redskins always make the trades and Philly is always left holding their prick.

Taco John

08-25-2006, 05:18 PM

You don't think Shanny could have gotten a 3rd round pick from Philly? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why Shanny wasn't interested in making a deal with Philly.

- Better QB,
- same system (learning curve shorten),
- they way Philly loves to toss the ball around, Lelie could have produced some real numbers.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Why in the world would Shanahan want to trade Lelie to a team that is likely going to win their division and draft later, than to a team that is likely going to struggle to make the playoffs and have an earlier pick? It has nothing to do with spite, and everything to do with getting the most value for your player.

BroncoBuff

08-25-2006, 06:35 PM

Why in the world would Shanahan want to trade Lelie to a team that is likely going to win their division and draft later, than to a team that is likely going to struggle to make the playoffs and have an earlier pick? It has nothing to do with spite, and everything to do with getting the most value for your player.
Wait a minute ... according to Adam Schefter on NFL Network yesterday, this was the VERY FIRST FIRM OFFER Denver received for Lelie ...

Philly, SF, Chicago, even Houston NEVER MADE AN ACTUAL OFFER.

Schefter's words.

Rock Chalk

08-25-2006, 06:49 PM

If you dont feed the trolls...

just sayin

Taco John

08-25-2006, 07:11 PM

Wait a minute ... according to Adam Schefter on NFL Network yesterday, this was the VERY FIRST FIRM OFFER Denver received for Lelie ...

Philly, SF, Chicago, even Houston NEVER MADE AN ACTUAL OFFER.

Schefter's words.

Shows you how reliable any information that you get out there is when it comes to the Broncos... Which isn't hard to believe at all... There were some tall tales coming out of the Broncos organization by my score card. Everything from being offered a third from Philly and refusing, to offering him to Houston for a fourth and having it rejected.

Smoke and mirrors.

BroncoBuff

08-25-2006, 07:17 PM

Shows you how reliable any information that you get out there is when it comes to the Broncos... Which isn't hard to believe at all... There were some tall tales coming out of the Broncos organization by my score card. Everything from being offered a third from Philly and refusing, to offering him to Houston for a fourth and having it rejected.

Smoke and mirrors.
I hear you .... but which is the BAD info? Schefter, or the Eagle rumors?

Taco John

08-25-2006, 07:27 PM

I hear you .... but which is the BAD info? Schefter, or the Eagle rumors?

Well... The Eagle rumors came from Shanahan during the draft. Wabbit has been lying low lately, but he'll tell you the same. We checked our notes together on this one.

But as far as the Atlanta talk goes, I reported the Atlanta interest back in February, before there was ANY talk about Lelie being traded, based on some information that was shared with me by someone close to Lelie. I can't say more than that, because the person wasn't supposed to say anything, but did anyway.

I believe Schefter's report that there were no firm offers. I think that there's a lot of posturing that goes on during these things, and "interest" gets blown up to mean "offer" and word games are played. That's why I try to tell people to take anything they read, be it here or anywhere else, for what it's worth. There's probably a grain of truth in most of what you read, but you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg...

BroncoInferno

08-25-2006, 10:49 PM

Shows you how reliable any information that you get out there is when it comes to the Broncos... Which isn't hard to believe at all... There were some tall tales coming out of the Broncos organization by my score card. Everything from being offered a third from Philly and refusing, to offering him to Houston for a fourth and having it rejected.

Smoke and mirrors.

The 3rd from Philly was never offered. You were wrong. Dead wrong.

BroncoInferno

08-25-2006, 10:54 PM

Well... The Eagle rumors came from Shanahan during the draft. Wabbit has been lying low lately, but he'll tell you the same. We checked our notes together on this one.

So, Shanny could not keep up with his own lies when he said on denverbroncos.com that no one ever offered a first day pick? He can't even keep up with his own lies??? Look, I know you thought you heard Shanny say they turned down a 3rd from Philly, but you were quite simply mistaken. No print source ever reported that (you can't tell me not one single print source would have found that print worthy given the situation), and Shanny himself said in a press conference that no first day pick was ever offered. Just admit you're wrong, man.

Taco John

08-25-2006, 11:22 PM

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 12:26 AM

Don't let Inferno heat you up again, TJ :~ohyah!:

wabbit

08-26-2006, 02:10 AM

Wait a minute ... according to Adam Schefter on NFL Network yesterday, this was the VERY FIRST FIRM OFFER Denver received for Lelie ...

Philly, SF, Chicago, even Houston NEVER MADE AN ACTUAL OFFER.

Schefter's words.

Well then, Schefter is categorically wrong.

Atlanta made an offer for a Lelie/TJ Duckett swap back in May that was widely reported & confirmed by both the Bronco Media Relations & the Atlanta FO.

Philly considered several counter-proposals from Denver, although Shanahan nor Sundquist will discuss what the original offer even was..Shanahan said after day 1 of the draft that it was a third round choice...he also added that it was someone else's third or something that no-one understood and he didn't clarify.

SF DIDN'T make an offer, but they DID send out feelers way back in Jan-Feb when TJ originally reported it. Lelie even got wind of it.

Houstons' Gary Kubiak made an offer of a purely conversational nature...'what would it take' kind of discussion, but never made the offer official.

Adam is privy to all this..certainly the Atlanta offer, so I'm not sure what prompted these written comments.

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 02:23 AM

Well then, Schefter is categorically wrong.

Atlanta made an offer for a Lelie/TJ Duckett swap back in May that was widely reported & confirmed by both the Bronco Media Relations & the Atlanta FO.

Philly considered several counter-proposals from Denver, although Shanahan nor Sundquist will discuss what the original offer even was..Shanahan said after day 1 of the draft that it was a third round choice...he also added that it was someone else's third or something that no-one understood and he didn't clarify.

SF DIDN'T make an offer, but they DID send out feelers way back in Jan-Feb when TJ originally reported it. Lelie even got wind of it.

Houstons' Gary Kubiak made an offer of a purely conversational nature...'what would it take' kind of discussion, but never made the offer official.

Adam is privy to all this..certainly the Atlanta offer, so I'm not sure what prompted these written comments.
Okay ... maybe Adam was mincing words (we know he minces :~ohyah!: ) ... and he meant no PICKS were offered. He did specify that on draft day, the Texans were considering offering a 4th round pick ... but never actually did.

Plus ... I think maybe Shanny told everybody, for example, "Second round minimum," so maybe teams were thinking about an offer, but were scared off by that.

He did say that SF, Philly, Chicago, Atl and Houston were interested.

Taco John

08-26-2006, 02:29 AM

Don't let Inferno heat you up again, TJ :~ohyah!:

He's heated me up before? Huh? Uhh

He's like lil' errand.

I'm not worried about it in the least. I'm not here to try and fool anyone.

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 02:31 AM

Here's what Adam said:

TRADING PARTNERS

In the days leading up to the draft, and then again on draft day, the Broncos repeatedly shopped Lelie, hoping to trade him to the highest bidder. Only there were none.

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers debated giving up a fourth-round draft choice to Denver, but never offered it.

The Houston Texans, with former Denver offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak in charge, considered dealing a fourth-round draft choice to Denver, but also never offered it.

Denver got zero -- zero! -- offers for Lelie.

That's a direct transcript of what he sadi yesterday on Total Access.

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9616229

wabbit

08-26-2006, 02:34 AM

... I think maybe Shanny told everybody, for example, "Second round minimum," so maybe teams were thinking about an offer, but were scared off by that.

He did say that SF, Philly, Chicago, Atl and Houston were interested.

I think you're right on; Shanahan made it pretty clear he would accept nothing less than 2nd round compensation...or value, although that didn't stop several teams from trying...this, after telling reporters rather emphatically in February that; "..Ashely Lelie isn't going anywhere.."

When the three-way trade talks between Denver-Wash-Atlanta became shop talk among the sports commentators like Mortensen, Clayton, Schefter & others, Chicago tried to jump in the mix at the last minute, although no-one really knows what they might have been offering.

Philadelphia was actually the most serious potential trade partner right up until the three-way trade went down.

Donovan McNabb even told a Philly newspaper reporter that the team needs to 'get him in here' to start learning the system back in July...referencing Lelie of course.

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 02:35 AM

He's heated me up before? Huh? Uhh

He's like lil' errand.

I'm not worried about it in the least. I'm not here to try and fool anyone.
You're forgetting today's Ian Gold skirmish? http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1241800#post1241800

Taco John

08-26-2006, 02:38 AM

You're forgetting today's Ian Gold skirmish? http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1241800#post1241800

I didn't consider that heated up. Just a bunch of people trying to change history and getting upset that not everybody was willing to play along with it.

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 02:38 AM

Wabbit ... which timeline is most correct here? http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=45642

wabbit

08-26-2006, 02:40 AM

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9616229

Well, think about it for a moment.

Lelie is on the record stating he wants a trade. Shanahan/Sundquist grant his wish & allow him/his agent, to seek a trade, and the likes of Mortensen, Clayton...local columnists Jim Armstrong, Mike Klis...along with ESPN commentator Woody paige ALL state, write & debate the various talks between Denver & interested teams...and none of this ever took place??

Schefter is wrong.

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 02:41 AM

I didn't consider that heated up. Just a bunch of people trying to change history and getting upset that not everybody was willing to play along with it.
I have no idea why people try to goad you so much ... that Plummer stuff a couiple weeks ago was crazy. It was like a feeding frenzy - PILE ON TJ! And you weren't linking the two topics together, and yet they were SO CONVINCED you were ... how the he!! do those things get started?! Even Popps and you got into it again recently ...

Taco John

08-26-2006, 02:42 AM

Wabbit ... which timeline is most correct here? http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=45642

What you don't understand is the timeline doesn't matter. It is irrelevant. You can't even tell me what came first: Lelie asking to be traded, or Denver shopping him around.

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 02:42 AM

Well, think about it for a moment.

Lelie is on the record stating he wants a trade. Shanahan/Sundquist grant his wish & allow him/his agent, to seek a trade, and the likes of Mortensen, Clayton...local columnists Jim Armstrong, Mike Klis...along with ESPN commentator Woody paige ALL state, write & debate the various talks between Denver & interested teams...and none of this ever took place??

Schefter is wrong.
I'm fine with Adam being wrong, though it happens so rarely ... I just wanted to clear up that it wasn't ME saying it.

Taco John

08-26-2006, 02:46 AM

I have no idea why people try to goad you so much ... that Plummer stuff a couiple weeks ago was crazy. It was like a feeding frenzy - PILE ON TJ! And you weren't linking the two topics together, and yet they were SO CONVINCED you were ... how the he!! do those things get started?! Even Popps and you got into it again recently ...

Eh... I deserve everything I get -- for the most part. I have strong opinions, and enjoy pushing a button or two along the way. It only makes sense that there will be some who try to return the favor... even if not all of them are nearly as good at it as others. But for the most part, there's a lot of respect that goes around, even if it doesn't always show on the surface.

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 02:51 AM

Yeah ... I'm missing the history there, and underlying respect. Somebody had to explain to me (it was Popps) why there was a "Popps vs. TJ" smilie ... neither of you seem the type....

BroncoBuff

08-26-2006, 02:57 AM

For once .... the answer "It's Griese's Fault!" is correct! :~ohyah!:

Rock Chalk

08-26-2006, 03:03 AM

Yeah ... I'm missing the history there, and underlying respect. Somebody had to explain to me (it was Popps) why there was a "Popps vs. TJ" smilie ... neither of you seem the type....
Good times.

wabbit

08-26-2006, 03:11 AM

So, Shanny could not keep up with his own lies when he said on denverbroncos.com that no one ever offered a first day pick? He can't even keep up with his own lies??? ...

Wasn't there for the follow-up. Perhaps he was correcting himself, I don't know.

I don't think he would lie...he signs off on trade agreements, contracts & personnel, but he doesn't always participate in the details of a possible deal...he leaves that to Sundquist & his group.

Keep in mind that last year, during Training Camp, Shanahan stopped a reporter in mid-sentence as he (the reporter) dismissed Quentin Griffin as a contributing factor in Denver's running game, circa 2005.

Miek seemed to make a point of how valuable he thought Griffin was to the team & the offensive plans.

He cut him the next week.

Mike plays to the press, and he plays the press.

He can always say he didn't mean it...and he does that some times.

Rock Chalk

08-26-2006, 03:12 AM

Wasn't there for the follow-up. Perhaps he was correcting himself, I don't know.

I don't think he would lie...he signs off on trade agreements, contracts & personnel, but he doesn't always participate in the details of a possible deal...he leaves that to Sundquist & his group.

Keep in mind that last year, during Training Camp, Shanahan stopped a reporter in mid-sentence as he (the reporter) dismissed Quentin Griffin as a contributing factor in Denver's running game, circa 2005.

Miek seemed to make a point of how valuable he thought Griffin was to the team & the offensive plans.

He cut him the next week.

Mike plays to the press, and he plays the press.

He can always say he didn't mean it...and he does that some times.
Shouldnt you be in bed you old fart?

wabbit

08-26-2006, 03:39 AM

Shouldnt you be in bed you old fart?

Won't comment on the 'old fart' reference...partly because truth hurts, however...I did fall asleep during tonight's football game & now I can't sleep.

...which doesn't matter a whoile hell of a lot because i don't have to get up until Monday morning.

...so there

Northman

08-26-2006, 01:18 PM

Nah, that was the best he could get. No one wanted to give up much for Lelie even though he claims to be a top tier receiver.

WaffleBoy

08-26-2006, 01:35 PM

Somebody had to explain to me (it was Popps) why there was a "Popps vs. TJ" smilie ... neither of you seem the type....

GNM was credited for that war. ;D

The Boy Wonder :super:

Spider

08-26-2006, 01:58 PM

If Lelie thinks Jake was bad, wait until he get a hold of the Michael Vick experience. Ha! His numbers will be worse with Atlanta. I see him being the next Peerless Price.

The Boy Wonder :super:

or could it have been Atlanta is interested ? Falcons did have thier eye on lelie ..........

Spider

08-26-2006, 02:00 PM

I cant remember the entire deal over Liele , Denver and Atlanta , but I do remember Al Davis got screwed ..So I realy didnt care about who we got , Screwing the Raiders wouold have been my main goal ..........

BroncoInferno

08-27-2006, 10:25 AM

Well, think about it for a moment.

Lelie is on the record stating he wants a trade. Shanahan/Sundquist grant his wish & allow him/his agent, to seek a trade, and the likes of Mortensen, Clayton...local columnists Jim Armstrong, Mike Klis...along with ESPN commentator Woody paige ALL state, write & debate the various talks between Denver & interested teams...and none of this ever took place??

Schefter is wrong.

Looking at the context of the quote, it seems that Schefter was saying there were no FIRM offers on draft weekend, not that there weren't serious talk or that offers weren't made later.

BroncoInferno

08-27-2006, 10:29 AM

The only thing I can tell you is what Shanahan originally said. When I asked Wabbit about it, he said that it baffled several reporters, and that they think he possibly mis-spoke when he said it the first time around.

The evidence would seem to suggest that's the case. He said in a later press conference which I (and several others on this board) saw related by Shanny on deverbroncos.com that no first day pick was ever offered. That's to say nothing of the fact that not one single print source ever reported that information--something that would seem unlikely given the gravity of the situation among Dever fans.

At any rate, I'm just glad Danny Boy put his dunce cap back on.

BroncoInferno

08-27-2006, 10:33 AM

Eh... I deserve everything I get -- for the most part. I have strong opinions, and enjoy pushing a button or two along the way. It only makes sense that there will be some who try to return the favor... even if not all of them are nearly as good at it as others. But for the most part, there's a lot of respect that goes around, even if it doesn't always show on the surface.

I agree with this. A lot of mutual button pushing...all in good fun as far as I'm concerned. I have a lot of respect for Taco and the great board he's set up. I haven't been able to find anything else like it to fill my football appetite.