Two Items On Lelie from ESPN

[manchambo]

First, and hilarious, is a story noting that, if the Broncos go after all the fines they are entitled to, Lelie, the freaking genius, will lose money this season because he is only owed $600k in salary.

Second, a Scouts Inc insider article says that one of the reasons the Broncos dealt Lelie was because Watts has been so good. According to the article, an unidentified organization person said he was the most outstanding receiver in camp. I found that surprising because, by the looks of the preseason games, I would have thought that Marshall and maybe Kircus had passed him up. I haven't seen to much Watts buzz lately. Has anyone else?

[2KBack]

There's been steady positive buzz, nothing spectacular, but they did hold him out of the preseason game.

[usedupbraids]

Lelie DUMBASS OF THE YEAR AWARD LOL but he still can grab a football from the air

[PatsWin2002]

Here ya go....

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?section=sports&id=4492684

If Broncos demand all that's due, Lelie may pay to play


08/24/2006 9:52 AM - Depending on how Broncos officials resolve various fines and potential penalties pending against Ashley Lelie, he might have to pay to play in 2006.

There have been many players in NFL history, although not recently, who have suggested they love the game so much that they would play it for free.


Wide receiver Ashley Lelie, traded from the Denver Broncos to the Atlanta Falcons on Tuesday as part of a three-team swap that also included the Washington Redskins, might go beyond that.

Depending on how Broncos officials resolve various fines and potential penalties pending against Lelie as a result of his decision to boycott all the team's offseason activities, and his failure to report to training camp despite having a contract, the four-year veteran could go into the red for 2006.

And we're not just talking about the primary color in the Falcons' uniforms.

Under the terms of his original contract, signed as a first-round choice in the 2002 draft, Lelie was to have made $700,000 for the 2006 season -- an offseason workout bonus of $100,000 and a $600,000 base salary.

Lelie forfeited the workout bonus, though, when he chose to skip the Broncos' offseason program. He was then fined slightly more than $11,000, the maximum allowed by the collective bargaining agreement, when he was a no-show at Denver's mandatory three-day minicamp July 6-8. And his failure to report to camp drew daily fines of $14,000, totaling $378,000.

In addition, it is believed that the Broncos will seek to recover a prorated share of the $3.3 million signing bonus that Lelie received in 2002. The total for fines and potential penalties accrued by Lelie is close to $1.1 million and, as part of the trade agreement, the wide receiver reportedly signed a document that allows the Broncos to seek that amount.

There is a chance that, finally rid of Lelie, the Broncos might forgive a portion of that amount be or be willing to negotiate a lower figure. To this point, however, Denver officials have not been inclined to do so. Conventional wisdom is that Denver coach Mike Shanahan wants the penalties against Lelie to have some teeth, in part to dissuade other players from adopting a strategy similar to the wideout's failed approach.

What did Lelie's holdout accomplish for him on the field? The boycott was precipitated in part by the Broncos' acquisition of former Green Bay standout Javon Walker and by Lelie's desire to be more than the No. 3 wide receiver on the roster. But with the Falcons, he will be the No. 3 wideout, behind starters Roddy White and Michael Jenkins.

In a statement released by the Falcons on Thursday morning, Lelie, who was expected to participate in his first practice with his new team later in the day said: "I don't even know how to put it into words, that is how excited I am. The most exciting part is that I get to step back on the football field. I've missed it."

If the Broncos penalize Lelie to the maximum, and recover part of his signing bonus, practice time might be the least expensive thing missing for him.

Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com. To check out Len's chat archive, click here .

[BroncoInferno]

First, and hilarious, is a story noting that, if the Broncos go after all the fines they are entitled to, Lelie, the freaking genius, will lose money this season because he is only owed $600k in salary.

Second, a Scouts Inc insider article says that one of the reasons the Broncos dealt Lelie was because Watts has been so good. According to the article, an unidentified organization person said he was the most outstanding receiver in camp. I found that surprising because, by the looks of the preseason games, I would have thought that Marshall and maybe Kircus had passed him up. I haven't seen to much Watts buzz lately. Has anyone else?

Watts sat out most of the last game because Shanny said something to the effect of 'we already know what he can do'. You can tell they are excited about him. Hopefully, he will live up to expectations. With the way Marshall and Kircus have looked, and with the very different set of skills each bring to the table, we should have plenty of 'matchup' options at WR--something I don't think we've ever had (from a depth perspective).

[Traveler]

Glad this saga is over! Overlooked in this mess is the only remaining choice from the 2002 draft is Sam Brandon.:flush:

[PatsWin2002]

BTW, there was NO WAY I was gonna start another Lelie thread and be ridiculed by the masses. Ha!

[BroncoInferno]

Lelie DUMBASS OF THE YEAR AWARD LOL but he still can grab a football from the air

I said after the mini-camps that if Watts continued to impress, Lelie wouldn't have been able to win the #3 job even if he did report to camp and compete. It's sounding like he may have saved himself the humiliation of being buried on the depth chart.

[usedupbraids]

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/3696/dummyff0.jpgDUMBASSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Drek]

Good news on the fines, hope we get every last penny out of him. I'd feel bad for Ash having screwed himself out of so much money, but $1.1M is a significant amount to any organization, it would only help the franchise to get it back from him. Not to mention the message it sends to other potential hold outs (that Denver will fully pursue their right to fine a player).

[bendog]

Glad this saga is over! Overlooked in this mess is the only remaining choice from the 2002 draft is Sam Brandon.:flush:
Yeah, but drafting sonic wasn't a bad move. I'd say sonic, lelie and brandon isn't that bad a draft.

[usedupbraids]

Yeah, but drafting sonic wasn't a bad move. I'd say sonic, lelie and brandon isn't that bad a draft.
:kiss: THEM goodbye

[Traveler]

Yeah, but drafting sonic wasn't a bad move. I'd say sonic, lelie and brandon isn't that bad a draft.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the draft. Just noticed that Brandon was the only remaining member of that draft class. Sonic brought us the star CB we needed and ASh might bring another stud player if things shake out in our favor. No beef with that if it happens!

[usedupbraids]

damn we dont face Atlanata this year i want to see that dumbass get trashed by lynch

[Garcia Bronco]

the whole 2002 draft was weak from top to bottom except for a few players.

[crowebomber]

Does anyone know if they are planning to put Lelie in for Saturday's game against the Titans?

Unless Vick grows a third arm that actually can pass the ball down field, I think this will go down as one of the worst decisions by an athlete ever (business decision, I mean we can't compare that to Mo Clarrett robbing people or Lawrence Phillips running over children). He's basically going to owe more than he will make this year and he's pretty much in the same position (no. 3 WR) with a worse team. He'll just dissappear down there and in a couple years we'll be asking "what ever happened to.."

[bendog]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing the draft. Just noticed that Brandon was the only remaining member of that draft class. Sonic brought us the star CB we needed and ASh might bring another stud player if things shake out in our favor. No beef with that if it happens!
Yeah, imo it's just the way of the league. I checked out NE's drafts, and they're about the same. Team's just go through turnover. But, no doubt that the nash and delta picks were reaches.

http://nflhistory.net/shared/draft1.asp?Team=3&Year=2000

[freak6]

I said after the mini-camps that if Watts continued to impress, Lelie wouldn't have been able to win the #3 job even if he did report to camp and compete. It's sounding like he may have saved himself the humiliation of being buried on the depth chart.

Wow. He's gone, we got a great deal, I'm gonna leave this horse beaten. But wow.

I hope Ashley didn't invest with Rod and actually made money on his investments because that dude is actually living the cliche

"I'd play for free"

but worse, he's "Paying to play" just like me in flag football!!!!

BWAA HA HA HAAAAAAAAA

Ashley Lelie, stupidest mofo on the planet.

[BroncoMatt]

damn we dont face Atlanata this year i want to see that dumbass get trashed by lynch


You can take heart in knowing that he will get to face Carolina and Tampa each twice this season.

He went from a #3 in a more pass friendly system vs a division with overall poor secondaries to a #3 in a less pass friendly system with 2 very good hard hitting defenses.

He is such a puss.

[BroncoInferno]

Wow. He's gone, we got a great deal, I'm gonna leave this horse beaten. But wow.

The only thing holding back Watts has been his hands. Various reports have verified that he is able to create seperation with relative ease and is an excellent route runner (unlike Lelie). If Watts has his hands in order, Lelie could not beat him out in a fair competition. 'Wow' that all you want; if you've paid enough attention to both players, you know that's the truth.

[watermock]

the whole 2002 draft was weak from top to bottom except for a few players.

Name the "few players". I went ballistic draft after draft till this year. Hey, I thought we bought another midget in DWill in the mold of Q. God I hated that pick and all that thought he was then next Barry Sanders can man up. He couldn't fight his way thru spider webs.

Honestly I don't see the point of cranking the screws to Ms. Lilly. Sueing for 1.1 million AFTER taxes is like, I dunno, at least 1.8 million. Just take the fines and let him go. I don't think rubbing his nose in his own droppings sends much of a positive message. Take our fines and let it pass. If he dons a Falcons jersey and starts badmouthing the organization, then put him on the rack. It's basically up to him, as it always has been. If he was a collosal prick like IHOP I wouldn't mind, but I think he was given horrible advice. Let the kid go. Take 400k and move on. Bury the hatchett and move on. If he wants to be vindictive, well, that's another story. He brought this all on by himself.

[Man-Goblin]

Honestly I don't see the point of cranking the screws to Ms. Lilly. Sueing for 1.1 million AFTER taxes is like, I dunno, at least 1.8 million. Just take the fines and let him go. I don't think rubbing his nose in his own droppings sends much of a positive message. Take our fines and let it pass.

No. You absolutely have to set an example and retrieve all you can get from him. Show current and future players that the Broncos organization is not to be F'ed with when it comes players honoring their contracts.

It's not about revenge, it's about setting a precedent.

[usedupbraids]

but no hate vick in the westcoast OFF is a great idea then add Lelie might be a good show in 2 years

[bendog]

The only thing holding back Watts has been his hands. Various reports have verified that he is able to create seperation with relative ease and is an excellent route runner (unlike Lelie). If Watts has his hands in order, Lelie could not beat him out in a fair competition. 'Wow' that all you want; if you've paid enough attention to both players, you know that's the truth.
http://www.alatheia.com/

[fdf]

Name the "few players". I went ballistic draft after draft till this year. Hey, I thought we bought another midget in DWill in the mold of Q. God I hated that pick and all that thought he was then next Barry Sanders can man up. He couldn't fight his way thru spider webs.

Honestly I don't see the point of cranking the screws to Ms. Lilly. Sueing for 1.1 million AFTER taxes is like, I dunno, at least 1.8 million. Just take the fines and let him go. I don't think rubbing his nose in his own droppings sends much of a positive message. Take our fines and let it pass. If he dons a Falcons jersey and starts badmouthing the organization, then put him on the rack. It's basically up to him, as it always has been. If he was a collosal prick like IHOP I wouldn't mind, but I think he was given horrible advice. Let the kid go. Take 400k and move on. Bury the hatchett and move on. If he wants to be vindictive, well, that's another story. He brought this all on by himself.

It's not vindictive. His bonus will cost us cap money this year and next. Freeing up that cap money will allow us to redo contracts with loyal broncos who actually win their position and actually perform on the field. I would rather get the 1.1 million back than the fines because the 1.1 million will improve our cap position.

[watermock]

No. You absolutely have to set an example and retrieve all you can get from him. Show current and future players that the Broncos organization is not to be F'ed with when it comes players honoring their contracts.

It's not about revenge, it's about setting a precedent.

That's up to them. I don't think they can recoup his signing bonus in arbiration anyway. I didn't say let him walk away without penalty. It's up to them. I just think he's humiliated himself enough. I really don't care...stick the fireplace poker up his ass further. I don't really care but I don't know if that is the message you really want to send either.

[Meck77]

Lelie is in trouble right now if he isn't sitting on some cash reserves. Personally I think he deserves every fine the Broncos can possibly give him. If he can get that straight he can deal with the IRS next. The IRS won't be interested in his cute little Bling Bling earings.

After Lelie has another average season we'll see if the Falcons want to keep him. If not I'll contact Lelies agent to see if he wants to lay some tile for me. It's the least I can do for him.

If only Lelie would have shown up to camp to compete. He would have been right in the mix, collecting a check, and riding this positive momentum into the playoff this year with the Broncos.

I think Lelie has a shot at being a #1 tile layer.

[Broncoman13]

First, and hilarious, is a story noting that, if the Broncos go after all the fines they are entitled to, Lelie, the freaking genius, will lose money this season because he is only owed $600k in salary.

Second, a Scouts Inc insider article says that one of the reasons the Broncos dealt Lelie was because Watts has been so good. According to the article, an unidentified organization person said he was the most outstanding receiver in camp. I found that surprising because, by the looks of the preseason games, I would have thought that Marshall and maybe Kircus had passed him up. I haven't seen to much Watts buzz lately. Has anyone else?


Marshall had been great before the knee injury. No doubt he'll come back strong. Kircus is a guy that I'm really pulling for. I'd like to see us dress 5 receivers on Sundays.

Watts sat out vs the Titans b/c according to Shanny, "We know what Darius can do on the field, this gives us a chance to see the other guys."

[Garcia Bronco]

Name the "few players". I went ballistic draft after draft till this year. Hey, I thought we bought another midget in DWill in the mold of Q. God I hated that pick and all that thought he was then next Barry Sanders can man up. He couldn't fight his way thru spider webs.

Honestly I don't see the point of cranking the screws to Ms. Lilly. Sueing for 1.1 million AFTER taxes is like, I dunno, at least 1.8 million. Just take the fines and let him go. I don't think rubbing his nose in his own droppings sends much of a positive message. Take our fines and let it pass. If he dons a Falcons jersey and starts badmouthing the organization, then put him on the rack. It's basically up to him, as it always has been. If he was a collosal prick like IHOP I wouldn't mind, but I think he was given horrible advice. Let the kid go. Take 400k and move on. Bury the hatchett and move on. If he wants to be vindictive, well, that's another story. He brought this all on by himself.


In the first round...off the top of my head...I would say maybe Walker, Shockey, Reed, and Portis were the best in show in the first two rounds.

I agree with you about the fines though. There isn't much to be gained by rubbing his nose in it

[Crushaholic]

If the Broncos DON'T pursue the fines, it sets a bad precedent. Lelie should pay every penny of the fines just because of his stupidity...

[bendog]

Mike could take a kidney and let it go at that.

[Atlas]

Does anyone know if they are planning to put Lelie in for Saturday's game against the Titans?

Unless Vick grows a third arm that actually can pass the ball down field, I think this will go down as one of the worst decisions by an athlete ever.

It's definately right up there with the Bobby Humphrey hold out in 1991. Humphrey however was a starter and he did produce numbers. He had some leverage, unfortunately for him Denver got underachieving Gaston Green that offseason. It just so happened that Green had a great year that year and Humphrey finally had to come crawling back midway through the season. He finished the year with something like 5 carries for 15 yards and was traded the next year for Sammie Smith who was later cut by the Broncos.

[55CrushEm]

IMO.....even if the league does not allow us to recoup the CASH for the 25% of his 3.3 million signing bonus (I would actually understand this, cause it's a SIGNING bonus)....they should, however, allow us to have the cap space back for that portion....

As far as the fines go.....we absolutely should collect every penny. For the precedent as previously mentioned, even though this would have nothing to do with our cap number.

[easymobee]

Unless Vick grows a third arm that actually can pass the ball down field, I think this will go down as one of the worst decisions by an athlete ever (business decision, I mean we can't compare that to Mo Clarrett robbing people or Lawrence Phillips running over children). He's basically going to owe more than he will make this year and he's pretty much in the same position (no. 3 WR) with a worse team. He'll just dissappear down there and in a couple years we'll be asking "what ever happened to.."

He committed career suicide via the Bobby Humphrey method.

Mike Vick could turn Randy Moss into a 950 yd 5 td WR. He transformed Peerless Price from a rising star to a fringe player instantly.

I doubt Lelie will ever outgain Alge Crumpler in the Falcons offense.

He reminds me of Alvin Harper in a way. Harper was a WR just like Lelie that thrived as a #2 until he too decided he needed to be the #1 guy (at least he got a big payday).

Cutler-Walker-Lelie-Scheffler really could have been this generations Aikman-Irvin-Harper-Novacek.

Dallas did fine w/o Harper and i think we will follow suit just the same.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

IMO.....even if the league does not allow us to recoup the CASH for the 25% of his 3.3 million signing bonus (I would actually understand this, cause it's a SIGNING bonus)....they should, however, allow us to have the cap space back for that portion....


Has to be paid back before they give a team credit for it

[Hulamau]

Check out the guns Lelie grew in the offseason! He certainly wasn't playing tiddly winks while sittin' out and looks as filled out as Walker now or even bigger.

And watch the little video clip of "Mack" interviewing the players, it s a far cry from the vibe in the Broncos locker room ... sounds like a bunch of high school guys.

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/

"Ashley Lelie lined up outside the right hash, saw the ball snapped, took a jab step to his right to throw his defender off, and then burst to his left across the field on a short drag route. When the ball met his hands, he was at full tilt -- screaming across the field -- and turned up the sideline leaving the defense looking at his cleats."

It was good to be playing football again. It was good to be a Falcon.

"I feel good," he smiled following Thursday's practice. "I get the opportunity to play football again. I feel real good."

Right now, Lelie's focus is on hitting the books and learning the intricacies of the Falcons offense. He's so set to get back to the business of football, that he's not even worried about things like most players obsess over.

Say, like jersey numbers.

"I just told them to throw me a jersey," he laughed about his #15 jersey. "I just wanted to play football.

"I've been sitting out for the last three or four months, so whatever jersey they had -- it could have been 63 and I've had thrown it on. I'm ready."

[p7superfly]

I'm sad to lose Lelie. I hope he does well.

That said, I agree with EVERYONE above who says we need to send a message. We collect ALL our fines, AND go after the signing bonus, which we'll be able to because he breached his contract. It'll just get us more cap-space next year. It's a no-lose for us.

Again, I feel badly for Ashley if this all doesn't work out ... but he made his bed.

[Hulamau]

No way the Broncos are gonna get the signing bonus back. If he had stiffed them the whole season for sure, but we just got 'fair value" for the future for him and that part of it isnt going to fly in arbitration.

No doubt the Broncos know that two, but making a stink about it now while the subject is hot conveys 9/10ths of what is needed to send the message to other players, combined with the $450,000 to $500,000 they will collect.

The drama is over now though and its time for the Broncos to close this chapter and look forward to winning a SB and cashing in on the top first round draft pick after the Skins flame out this year! :-)

[p7superfly]

No way the Broncos are gonna get the signing bonus back. If he had stiffed them the whole season for sure, but we just got 'fair value" for the future for him and that part of it isnt going to fly in arbitration.

No doubt the Broncos know that two, but making a stink about it now while the subject is hot conveys 9/10ths of what is needed to send the message to other players, combined with the $450,000 to $500,000 they will collect.

The drama is over now though and its time for the Broncos to close this chapter and look forward to winning a SB and cashing in on the top first round draft pick after the Skins flame out this year! :-)


Just make an intern continue to pursue the bonus - because he held out due to non-injury ... a breach of contract. He forced our hand. I'd rather have Lelie and his 4.3 speed than moving up 5 spots in the draft, or getting a third or fourth rounder for next year.

And let's all start praying that CP takes the year off. Ginn from Ohio St. would make us all forget about Lelie.

[Hulamau]

Ginn would be awesome

[Clockwork Orange]

No way the Broncos are gonna get the signing bonus back. If he had stiffed them the whole season for sure, but we just got 'fair value" for the future for him and that part of it isnt going to fly in arbitration.

You obviously missed this little detail.

The total for fines and potential penalties accrued by Lelie is close to $1.1 million and, as part of the trade agreement, the wide receiver reportedly signed a document that allows the Broncos to seek that amount.

They're gonna get every penny that they can from him. Sends a stern message to anyone else who might think about an ill-advised move, or as it's being called now, "Pulling a Lelie." :laugh:

Congrats to Ash on being the NFL record holder for dumbest holdout ever. :rofl:

[Northman]

damn we dont face Atlanata this year i want to see that dumbass get trashed by lynch


If Lynch ever hit Ash he would litterly shatter upon impact. Ha!

[Odysseus]

The best thing Lelie has done for the Broncos was holding out and leaving. He forced the Broncos to look harder at WR and eventually find a solution for their 3rd, 4th and 5th WR problems. Sweet. Thanks Ashley!

[KipCorrington25]

Wasn't part of the deal with the trade that they negotiated a settlement on the fines... he's paying a portion but not all.

[bendog]

Wasn't part of the deal with the trade that they negotiated a settlement on the fines... he's paying a portion but not all.
Stop being reasonable. You're messing up the thread (-:

The Broncos also are believed to have made the trade contingent on an agreement from Lelie to pay the team as much as $1 million - which would cover the fines Lelie has been assessed for missing the team's three-day mandatory minicamp as well as training camp to this point and a portion of Lelie's original $3.3 million signing bonus.

The $1 million figure might be negotiable at a later date being it is $400,000 more than Lelie is scheduled to make this season.
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/nfl/article/0,2777,DRMN_23918_4940790,00.html

[Mr Chatterboodamn]

http://www.alatheia.com/


wtf is "fatty's shark vacuumgets all my hairoff of the little girl's toys" all about? lol

[bendog]

I'm Fatty and I use the Shark to Vacuum all of the Dog's hair off my kid's toys.

[goldengopher1976]

Agree with all those who argue that a precedent needs to be set. Moreover, something that hasn't been mentioned is that Lelie held out/skipped camp/etc. in the face of what his agent admitted was a classy, professional organization that "did everything it could" to accommodate his client. It's not like Denver didn't treat him with respect--and more specifically--with the respect he deserved. He made the choice to skip workouts, he made the choice to skip camp, he made the choice, knowing the consequences. It would send a d*mn poor message to go all jubilee on the fines. It should hurt when you choose to do something knowing there are consequences. Especially when you've been given every opportunity.