Technical Lelie question

[Jens1893]

(I apologize for opening a new Lelie thread, but my question went unanswered in the roster cuts thread and I´m genuinely interested in having this answered. You can delete or merge this with the other thread once I get an answer. Thanks.)

Does Lelie count for a roster spot and against the limit while he´s a holdout or how does this work?

[plummershelper]

Reserve/Did Not Report. He does not count for the 53

[Jens1893]

Thank you. The mods can do their job now.

[CBF1]

4300 post rule !!! :)

Someone had to say it.

[watermock]

I wasn't sure either I forgot that exemption. That fool is getting fined close to 100K a week. Unreal.

[69bronco]

He only made 575,000 from football in 05' so he'll be a broke ass pretty soon.

[Rascal]

Well I didnt' know that.

[RhymesayersDU]

This is one of the best Lelie threads to date. Good question posed, I was under the impression that we'd only be able to have 52 men on the roster because we'd be carrying Lelie. So good to know that we'll have 53 guys.

[watermock]

Ms. Lilly is royally screwed. Remember, that 500K wasn't tax free. Ha! He pays federal state and local taxes, his agent, his no doubt fancy car(s) payment(s). Maybe he sold oil short on the board and will get a margin call. Ha!

[shaun514]

How long is he under contract for?

[baja]

this year is his last

[ClevelandBronco]

this year is his last

But as I understand it, he has to be on the active roster for a minimum of six games in '06 in order to fulfill his contract and become a free agent in '07.

Furthermore, my understanding is that if he doesn't get those six games, it'll be as if the season never happened for him and he'll still be in the last year of his contract with the Broncos next year.

Anyone here that can confirm my understanding of the situation? Or maybe tell me I'm full of goose grease?

[SoCalBronco]

But as I understand it, he has to be on the active roster for a minimum of six games in '06 in order to fulfill his contract and become a free agent in '07.

Furthermore, my understanding is that if he doesn't get those six games, it'll be as if the season never happened for him and he'll still be in the last year of his contract with the Broncos next year.

Anyone here that can confirm my understanding of the situation? Or maybe tell me I'm full of goose grease?

You are correct. Lelie has stated that it is indeed his intention to sit out all but the final six games so that he can get a credited season for FA purposes.

[watermock]

That's true. By the time 10 weeks go around he will owe around 2M in fines. Then they can suspend him without pay if he doesn't report even if he does. That means he would get 2 weeks of his rookie pay, or around, I dunno, maybe 40K. If he got that on inactive, he would only owe about 1.95 million. Ha!

[watermock]

They can still suspend him for conduct detrimental to the team if he reports after week 10 and can't fine, but do not have to pay him anything. At least that's what I think the CBA says. If he want's to play that game, he would get two game checks and any post season checks. That's all. It wouldn't change 16 weeks of fines.

800K X 14= I dunno...Over 1.3 million by my lousy math. And all he had to do was report. I still can't figure out who pissed in his cheerios. Walker just wanted money. They always want money. WTF? Play out your contract and move on. I still can't figure this out.

[SteveTensi13]

They can still suspend him for conduct detrimental to the team if he reports after week 10 and can't fine, but do not have to pay him anything. At least that's what I think the CBA says. If he want's to play that game, he would get two game checks and any post season checks. That's all. It wouldn't change 16 weeks of fines.

800K X 14= I dunno...Over 1.3 million by my lousy math. And all he had to do was report. I still can't figure out who pissed in his cheerios. Walker just wanted money. They always want money. WTF? Play out your contract and move on. I still can't figure this out.

Drugs man, its gotta be drugs!:puff:

[watermock]

Drugs man, its gotta be drugs!:puff:

That would certainly enhance his trade value. The BS Jake talks about Mike Anderson being "railroaded" is just ignorant too. You are not suspended on your first offense.

We was worn out late and his one dirty test from a year long suspension. Yes, according to reports, we lost our "starting RB".

Everyone seems to feel that Ms. Lilly is commiting career suicide. Next year, there will be yet another crop of young WR's. Ms. Lilly must be watching to much poker on ESPN since he is "All in" while there is a check mark in the Broncos icon.

[ClevelandBronco]

If Lelie reports for the last six games of the season, does that mean he has fulfilled his contract? Can the Broncos declare him unable to perform (or some such), thereby rendering his action moot? Is there another designation that the team might use to its advantage in that situation?

In short, what could happen if Ash wandered into the dressing room on the eve of the 11th game? Who wins his rights for 2007? Ash or the team?

[watermock]

If Lelie reports for the last six games of the season, does that mean he has fulfilled his contract? Can the Broncos declare him unable to perform (or some such), thereby rendering his action moot? Is there another designation that the team might use to its advantage in that situation?

In short, what could happen if Ash wandered into the dressing room on the eve of the 11th game? Who wins his rights for 2007? Ash or the team?

From my crude calculations, he will owe around 1.3 million, could be suspended for contract detrimental to the team (unpaid) and put on inactive (paid for the last two weeks)but there wouldn't be a point. He would be a free agent anyway.

If he's willing to give up 1.5 million to have teams banging on his agents door after being out of football a full year, I doubt he will be in great demand as a Free Agent anyway. He's in for a big time ass whippin'. By next year, teams will be looking at good character guys in the draft. The lessons of malcontents are all over the place, from MoC to T.O. (who knows what will happen with that fiasco).

Ms. Lilly might as well pulled out a dildo and ****ed herself.

[shaun514]

this year is his last

That hurts his trade value a lot.

[Crushaholic]

What is our cap hit if we just cut him?

[watermock]

If we cut him, he owes us I think. I see no reason to cut him when we can just put him on "did not report list" and keep fining him.

[fountelway]

i want to know if he is traded does he still have to pay the fines???

[watermock]

If we choose to do so yes. Usually, it's a money issue and once that is resolved, a team will waive the fines, or minimize them. If he's traded, **** him. Take the fine money and give some to our pretty cheerleaders who performed in dangerous Iraq and some to the Pat Tillman foundation, some to the USO, whatever. Since money isn't an issue for Ms. Lilly, why give any back?

[fountelway]

i hope if he is traded the broncos make him pay the fines but i bet he will walk free and get exactly what he has wanted from the start. which i think sucks and shows the players run the show not the teams they play for.

[watermock]

Why do that if he's traded? He will hold out from the trade then? Then screw him.

[Hulamau]

If he isnt traded in the next two weeks Ash should just report the day after the last cuts and make Shanny have to either trade him, cut him or cut someone else they had already slotted onto the 53 roster. If he's smart (which he has already proven in the negative) that's what he'll do... force Shanny's hand.

He's gotta make up his 6 games anyway, why not do it early while still demanding a trade and then walk if they dont trade him after serving his six games. It would stop the fines, at least temporarily, and really force Shanny to accept a potential major distraction into the 53 with al lthe guys knowing a good player was cut because of him sitting on the bench, or to send him home, but either way Lelie is on the team and off the dole and Shanny has to make one more painful cut in what is already going to be a very tough year to make cuts. I promise you he'll be traded the next day.

No way they are going to play him after he missed the whole preseason unless Walker or Rod go down, in which case we might see a sudden change of tune in Dove Valley.

Every other team in the league sees the obviousness of this scenario and is just biding their time knowing that they can likely get him cheaper later rather than sooner.

[Man-Goblin]

If he isnt traded in the next two weeks Ash should just report the day after the last cuts and make Shanny have to either trade him, cut him or cut someone else they had already slotted onto the 53 roster. If he's smart (which he has already proven in the negative) that's what he'll do... force Shanny's hand.

He's gotta make up his 6 games anyway, why not do it early while still demanding a trade and then walk if they dont trade him after serving his six games. It would stop the fines, at least temporarily, and really force Shanny to accept a potential major distraction into the 53 with al lthe guys knowing a good player was cut because of him sitting on the bench, or to send him home, but either way Lelie is on the team and off the dole and Shanny has to make one more painful cut in what is already going to be a very tough year to make cuts. I promise you he'll be traded the next day.

No way they are going to play him after he missed the whole preseason unless Walker or Rod go down, in which case we might see a sudden change of tune in Dove Valley.

Every other team in the league sees the obviousness of this scenario and is just biding their time knowing that they can likely get him cheaper later rather than sooner.

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Quiet. You make too much sense.

[BroncoInferno]

Where we'll get screwed is when he reports for those final six games. Then we will have to cut someone in order to keep him on the roster.

Interesting thought, Hula; Lelie could give himself some leverage by reporting now, thus putting Shanny in the situation of either quickly arranging a trade or releasing a player he'd rather keep.

[55CrushEm]

Where we'll get screwed is when he reports for those final six games. Then we will have to cut someone in order to keep him on the roster.

Interesting thought, Hula; Lelie could give himself some leverage by reporting now, thus putting Shanny in the situation of either quickly arranging a trade or releasing a player he'd rather keep.
I think Hula has it right.....Lelie would be better serving himself by reporting NOW to force Shanny's hand. In this scenario....even if we do cut him (because perhaps we feel that guys like Kircus who are "hungrier" to make a team, can actually perform better than Lelie anyway), or we trade him for less than what we'd hope (say a 4th rounder, vs. a 1st or 2nd that Shanny wanted)....he's STILL got to pay a buttload of fines that he's already incurred.

I think it's better for us if he waits until the final 6 games to report.....a lot more fines owed to us, AND we still get to keep a guy on the roster that we like for a longer period of time.....

Bottom line is that I've already written off Lelie in my mind.....the guy is a bust.

ONE friggin' TD catch last year, and only 12 TD's in 4 years !!!! Pathetic.....

Whatever we get for Lelie is a bonus IMO, and the longer he stays away, the more cash in our pocket.....

[Hulamau]

Where we'll get screwed is when he reports for those final six games. Then we will have to cut someone in order to keep him on the roster.

Interesting thought, Hula; Lelie could give himself some leverage by reporting now, thus putting Shanny in the situation of either quickly arranging a trade or releasing a player he'd rather keep.


Its his one true leverage in this whole deal. If he hadnt misread the fact that he didnt have the stats to work this kind of of forced trade to begin with (which none of the owners like to reward but will gladly do so IF and only IF the player has marquee value) then Lelie would have reported for camp in July and made the best of it for the season as I had originally hoped.

Now he's down to his last best option, but will probably over look this one too!

For his sake maybe his agent has more sense.

I suspect Shanny is well aware of this too and wont let it come to that .. so are the other teams ... hence this cat and mouse game.

[55CrushEm]

Sorry if this has been asked.....but if Lelie comes back now, can we let him rot on the practice squad ? Ha!

That way we wouldn't be "giving in" to what he wants (i.e. teach this clown a lesson), and we'd also be able to keep the 53 guys that we REALLY want on the active roster.....

[Hulamau]

No he's not eligble for the PS

[BroncsRule]

Ash is no longer eligible for the PS.

[BroncoBen]

.... Shanny has to make one more painful cut in what is already going to be a very tough year to make cuts. I promise you he'll be traded the next day....

Exactly…. And if it gets to that point don’t be shocked to see Lelie get traded for several cases of beer for the team to enjoy as they make their playoff run without him.

[Flyboy063]

Its his one true leverage in this whole deal. If he hadnt misread the fact that he didnt have the stats to work this kind of of forced trade to begin with (which none of the owners like to reward but will gladly do so IF and only IF the player has marquee value) then Lelie would have reported for camp in July and made the best of it for the season as I had originally hoped.

Now he's down to his last best option, but will probably over look this one too!

For his sake maybe his agent has more sense.

I suspect Shanny is well aware of this too and wont let it come to that .. so are the other teams ... hence this cat and mouse game.


I don't think this would work. Hypothetically speaking what happens if Jake throws a high pass over the middle for Ashley to catch and Mr. Lynch decides to give Ashley a nice welcome back hit. Now let say that hit breaks a leg or causes some other season ending injury. That of course would cause Ashley to go on IR. I believe if he ends up on IR his season requirement will not be met. I could be wrong here so if somebody knows better, please let me know.

With that scenerio I don't think Lelie agent would advise him of doing what your purpose; eventhough, it would look to be his best option.

That is just my 2 cents.

Kip

[Northman]

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Quiet. You make too much sense.


Yea, no kidding Hula you big Poohead. Now you've spoiled everything. Ha!

[Hulamau]

I don't think this would work. Hypothetically speaking what happens if Jake throws a high pass over the middle for Ashley to catch and Mr. Lynch decides to give Ashley a nice welcome back hit. Now let say that hit breaks a leg or causes some other season ending injury. That of course would cause Ashley to go on IR. I believe if he ends up on IR his season requirement will not be met. I could be wrong here so if somebody knows better, please let me know.

With that scenerio I don't think Lelie agent would advise him of doing what your purpose; eventhough, it would look to be his best option.

That is just my 2 cents.

Kip

Denver isnt about to play him if his still demanding a trade while riding the pine.

[wolf754life]

It should be obvious by now that shanny isn't giving in. Its about prinicipal now, he is sending a message to agents, players, the nfl, that he doesn't respond well to a player not honoring contracts.

Portis is gone because of that! One other thing is shanny has no problem paying guys that have earned it. Bailey, even Walker, who has made some pro bowls, lynch, wilson, ROD. Hell even Gerard Warren got the $, why, because he came to denver with an open mind, worked his tail off, never missed a single work out and became a team leader on the D-Line. He proved himself to the staff and they rewarded him in kind.

Early in his tenure he was burned by big signings, see Trevor Pryce, Brian Greise, Daryl Gardner, Dale Carter etc, etc....

If you have noticed the big money contracts have tightened up alot in the last 3 years. Thats a good thing for the organization and it also gives players the headsup that they have to earn it in Denver.

Lets face it, Lelie has been a dissapointment from the start. He was never a proper fit for the offense, we run west coast, not vertical. It is a shame that we will never see him catch a ball from #6, but Lelie disappears during games for long stretches, doesn't make the big blocks needed and has never committed himself to doing the little things. The kid has a ton of raw talent and it will be used somewhere thats for sure.


When or if cutler ever starts to excel, he will outplay his original contract, and then Shanny and Bowlen will sit down and do the right thing, that is if he earns it of course.

Lelie is going no-where, they are not giving away the 19th pick for nothing, not even a 4th round pick, if teams want him they are going to have to pay for him, if not, the value of the message and the value of setting precedent is worth much more than all of that!

Lelie will sign next year with a team for a deal around 5 to 7 million in gaurantee, with 2.75 million a year in salary. 6 million bonus, 5 yr 13.75 in salary. Thats if he's lucky, but someone will pay it. Not the Bronx

[HILife]

If he isnt traded in the next two weeks Ash should just report the day after the last cuts and make Shanny have to either trade him, cut him or cut someone else they had already slotted onto the 53 roster. If he's smart (which he has already proven in the negative) that's what he'll do... force Shanny's hand.

He's gotta make up his 6 games anyway, why not do it early while still demanding a trade and then walk if they dont trade him after serving his six games. It would stop the fines, at least temporarily, and really force Shanny to accept a potential major distraction into the 53 with al lthe guys knowing a good player was cut because of him sitting on the bench, or to send him home, but either way Lelie is on the team and off the dole and Shanny has to make one more painful cut in what is already going to be a very tough year to make cuts. I promise you he'll be traded the next day.

No way they are going to play him after he missed the whole preseason unless Walker or Rod go down, in which case we might see a sudden change of tune in Dove Valley.

Every other team in the league sees the obviousness of this scenario and is just biding their time knowing that they can likely get him cheaper later rather than sooner.

That was a little to good of an idea. Something else to look out for.

[HILife]

I don't think this would work. Hypothetically speaking what happens if Jake throws a high pass over the middle for Ashley to catch and Mr. Lynch decides to give Ashley a nice welcome back hit. Now let say that hit breaks a leg or causes some other season ending injury. That of course would cause Ashley to go on IR. I believe if he ends up on IR his season requirement will not be met. I could be wrong here so if somebody knows better, please let me know.

With that scenerio I don't think Lelie agent would advise him of doing what your purpose; eventhough, it would look to be his best option.

That is just my 2 cents.

Kip


HAHAHA that's cut throat

[Drek]

If Lelie reports too late into the season (say week 10) we can suspend him for the rest of the year and it won't take up a roster spot (see T.O. last year).

The only real threat to the 53 man is if he did just what Hula outlined, which would probably piss Shanahan off a lot but still get Lelie out of town.

Not sure he'd like his next contract though, obviously trying to railroad your coach isn't going to make you real popular around the NFL's coaching and front office ranks.

[denver5459]

4300 post rule !!! :)

Someone had to say it.

That's some funny stuff Hilarious!

[BroncsRule]

If Lelie reports too late into the season (say week 10) we can suspend him for the rest of the year and it won't take up a roster spot (see T.O. last year).



The Eagles were able to suspend TO without pay because they had him for "conduct detrimental to the team".

If Ash shows up at Dove Valley, either after last cuts or before game 11, the team could:

* Cut him. The team forfeits all rights to him and he becomes a free agent on the spot. All penalties accrued up to that date are still due. The remainder of his signing bonus (if any) is accelerated into the current cap year. Ash would not be required to repay any portion of his signing bonus, as he was "fired".

* Cut another player and put him on the team. A pissed off Ash, desperate to make a highlight reel or 5 to kick start his brain dead career might just be a good thing.

* Make him pass a physical. The team could try to dodge the bullet by declaring him PUP. I belive PUP time counts toward his FA eligability, so that would be a win/win. He's off the premesis, not creating a distraction, getting paid and will soon enough be someone else's problem.

* If he passes the physical with flying colors, you pretty much got to cut another player and bench him. He will fume - perhaps he would quickly oblige and make comments on the record that are "detrimental to the team" or start a fight with a teammate - in which case he's gone ala TO.

* Trade him to an NFC team for a conditional 4-5-6 next year.

[Flyboy063]

Denver isnt about to play him if his still demanding a trade while riding the pine.

Probably not, but I wouldn't put it past Shanny. Just for the simple fact that Lelie has so much talent and would improve the Broncos.

As far as the injury. I think that depends on what attitude Lelie reports back to the team with.


One other thing to consider the Broncos would still hold the chips. If they do have to cut somebody to fit Lelie on the roster why not cut somebody they figure will clear waivers (and is PS eligible). After that player clears waivers sign him to the PS. Then when Lelie starts his holdout up again the Broncos can resign that player. Granted they'd cut a player that deserves to be on the team, but it would still turn out to be better for the organization. If a trade doesn't get worked out then they have a possible option of suspension or Lelie goes to greener pasture and does will giving the Broncos and 08 comp pick.

Best case scenario would be that Lelie reports back with a good attitude. Plays his hardest while Sundquist works a trade. That way he shows he has the goods and that he has a good attitude. Which would make him more attractive to other teams.

With all that said I still think that Lelie's agent will not recommend what you are suggesting for the simple fact that if Shanny wanted to play him it would cause a injury concern. Good take though because it does bring up another possiblity.