Kenard Lang looking good!

[DomCasual]

Man, he looks quick! He's been all over the field the first two preseason games.

He reminds me a lot of Alfred Williams. And when you look where he is in his career, it's not hard to draw some parallels with where Williams was when he came to the Broncos. Lang is a little older, but they are roughly the same size (Williams is taller), and their careers took similar paths before getting here.

Here's to him producing like Alfred Williams did in Denver!

[plummershelper]

I loved Kenards pursuit and use of his hands. I think he'll be very successful this year and will really push for pt

[alkemical]

He's been 'solid' for the better part of his career. He'll get 8-10 sacks.

[youcandoit1687]

hopefully he can provide some more pass rush.

[defenseman]

I don't think there is the need to hope, he should. Keep in mind, last night Wilson and Bailey were suspended....He'll contribute I have no doubt..dman

[SouthStndJunkie]

Nobody got very excited when we signed him, but he is going to be our most consistent pass rusher all year.

[12th man]

Yeah he looks good out there. Im very glad we got him. I think with him, this line will be better than lasts years. The only reason I say that is because last year, pyce wasn't doing so hot, and I think Lang will have a better season than what pyce did last year. not to mention we are playing without warran or brown. I realy belive with these guys in playing with lang, we could have a good dline this year.

[DomCasual]

I don't think there is the need to hope, he should. Keep in mind, last night Wilson and Bailey were suspended....He'll contribute I have no doubt..dman
Well, Williams started 16 games and had 13 sacks his first season here, so I guess that would be okay for Kenard. :)

But seriously - they're both converted LBs (although Lang is a converted DE to a converted LB, back to a converted DE), they are both smallish (265), and they both came to Denver after disappointing years (Williams didn't start a game for the 49ers the year before he came here; Lang had a miserable year at LB last year).

I know it's preseason and all, but Lang has just been all over the field - against the run and against the pass. Could they really move him to the bench when Courtney Brown gets back? Because unless I'm mistaken, the starters were Ekuban and Brown before Brown's injury.

[-Slap-]

I like Kenard, too, but keep in mind, he did a lot of damage while going head up against the Pride of Estonia, Michael Roos.

http://www.ewu.edu/Images/foe_images/athletics/05fbcpRoosFOE.jpg

Demetrin Veal looked like hell on wheels, too.

We have to take into account, except for Mawae and Olsen, Tennessee's line is one of the worst in football.

[Kaylore]

I like Kenard, too, but keep in mind, he did a lot of damage while going head up against the Pride of Estonia, Michael Roos.

http://www.ewu.edu/Images/foe_images/athletics/05fbcpRoosFOE.jpg

Demetrin Veal looked like hell on wheels, too.

We have to take into account, except for Mawae and Olsen, Tennessee's line is one of the worst in football.
Very young and not very talented.

[Cito Pelon]

Lang is a pro. I remember him from Wash and Cleveland, nothing spectacular, but I heard his name mentioned a lot on gameday. 10th year guy with 2-3 years left where we probably hear his name a lot on gameday. Solid pickup.

[Cito Pelon]

We have to take into account, except for Mawae and Olsen, Tennessee's line is one of the worst in football.

Sure looked that way. Denver hasn't been tested much so far on either side of the ball.

[Florida_Bronco]

I like Lang too, and you gotta figure that's he's got pretty good wheels to play LB in a 3-4. He will be a solid pickup for us.

[bpc]

I think that Veal is pretty solid. He went against Backus last week if I recall correctly and he did pretty well. He looks way more active than a 10year vet should. He is playing with a Vigor we haven't really seen out of our ends in awhile. We usually have the plodders lining up out there. With Lang and Elvis, we some hornets that will collapse the outsides of the pocket pushing the QB in... then it is up to guys like Veal to collect on those sacks.

Let us not forget also that our coverage was pretty solid last night. It will be like that all year. Veal's first sack was a straight coverage sack when Volek had nobody to throw it to and Veal beat his man quickly.

I have high hopes for this year. Lang and Elvis will give the guys a shot in the arm, thankfully we can still send DJ and Ian on the blitz rather quickly as well.

I hope we draft a DT who can help Warren out next year. Actually, I would be in favor of us doing to the DL what we did two years ago with DB's... just keep drafting them.

[-Slap-]

Some of the more unrealistic fans around here expected us to land Deacon Jones this off season to magically cure the pass rush. When the best pass rushers available were gutless pukes like John Abraham and one-season wonders like Andre Carter, these people still wanted to bend over to land one of them.

Instead, Shanahan and company calmly surveyed the League and looked for a good player trapped in a bad scheme. Kenard Lang is not a 3-4 linebacker and he was languishing for a low profile organization in transition.

That's why we got a bargain and that's why good organizations don't panic.

[cabronco]

I was thinking the same thing watching Lang play. He reminds me alot of Alfred Williams with his tenacity & enthusiasm and getting to the point of attack.. I hope this carries over to the regular season against top players too.
With all this talent on offense we seem to have, getting pressure/ sacks with the defensive front four would be icing on the cake. Sounds sweet to me !

[NorthPABroncFan]

Some of the more unrealistic fans around here expected us to land Deacon Jones this off season to magically cure the pass rush. When the best pass rushers available were gutless pukes like John Abraham and one-season wonders like Andre Carter, these people still wanted to bend over to land one of them.

Instead, Shanahan and company calmly surveyed the League and looked for a good player trapped in a bad scheme. Kenard Lang is not a 3-4 linebacker and he was languishing for a low profile organization in transition.

That's why we got a bargain and that's why good organizations don't panic.Um, I'd still take Abraham or Carter over Lang... but we'll see come the regular season.

[NorthPABroncFan]

Some of the more unrealistic fans around here expected us to land Deacon Jones this off season to magically cure the pass rush. When the best pass rushers available were gutless pukes like John Abraham and one-season wonders like Andre Carter, these people still wanted to bend over to land one of them.

Instead, Shanahan and company calmly surveyed the League and looked for a good player trapped in a bad scheme. Kenard Lang is not a 3-4 linebacker and he was languishing for a low profile organization in transition.

That's why we got a bargain and that's why good organizations don't panic.Um, I'd still take Abraham or Carter over Lang... but we'll see come the regular season.

[-Slap-]

Um, I'd still take Abraham or Carter over Lang... but we'll see come the regular season.
You would have had to pay him more than both of those guys combined and you would have had to forget about drafting Jay Cutler, but otherwise it sounds like a solid plan.

[Northman]

Man, he looks quick! He's been all over the field the first two preseason games.

He reminds me a lot of Alfred Williams. And when you look where he is in his career, it's not hard to draw some parallels with where Williams was when he came to the Broncos. Lang is a little older, but they are roughly the same size (Williams is taller), and their careers took similar paths before getting here.

Here's to him producing like Alfred Williams did in Denver!


You make a lot of good points and obvservations. Its almost hard to believe he is a 10 year veteran already. He looks quicker than some of the youngsters out there. :thumbsup:

[telluride]

Lang is featured (along with several other Broncos) in this Men's Health piece on the NFL's Secret Training Camp -- namely, U of Miami's off-season conditioning program. Check it out:

http://tinyurl.com/h8aks

Interesting piece. Lang is going to have a good year.

[Cito Pelon]

Um, I'd still take Abraham or Carter over Lang... but we'll see come the regular season.

Can't afford these high priced hit-men. Not worth it. You have to draft them, or make do. Lang is a pro, you'll hear his name a lot on gameday. Good pickup.

[bpc]

I think the comparisons are pretty accurate. We've needed a sparkplug at the DL position. That is something we haven't had since Alfred and Neil left. We have no DL that talk besides Warren.

[Cito Pelon]

You would have had to pay him more than both of those guys combined and you would have had to forget about drafting Jay Cutler, but otherwise it sounds like a solid plan.

Yup.

[ludo21]

Lang is a stud, no doubt, 8 sacks or so with many pressures!! Cant wait!

[Popps]

He reminds me a lot of Alfred Williams.

Here's to him producing like Alfred Williams did in Denver!

Hmm... interesting prospect.

I'll say this, the Lang signing was (to me) the joke of the off-season... the idea that we'd try to fill a gaping hole with a stop-gap player.

But, through a couple of pre-season games, It's looking like maybe the joke's on me! I hope so... in really hope so!

Here's one thing I'll give Lang right off... he's got quickness that none of our other linemen have. Ekuban and Brown have almost no chance of doing anything in the backfield. Lang looks like he can actually disrupt some plays.

Way too early to tell, but at worst... he looks like he'll be a nice boost to a line sorely needing a play-maker. I'll call him a "poor man's" Alfred Williams, for now.... which is better than anything we had.

Very encouraging.

[baja]

Some of the more unrealistic fans around here expected us to land Deacon Jones this off season to magically cure the pass rush. When the best pass rushers available were gutless pukes like John Abraham and one-season wonders like Andre Carter, these people still wanted to bend over to land one of them.

Instead, Shanahan and company calmly surveyed the League and looked for a good player trapped in a bad scheme. Kenard Lang is not a 3-4 linebacker and he was languishing for a low profile organization in transition.

That's why we got a bargain and that's why good organizations don't panic.

I remember a time when you were real high on Andre Carter.

[Cito Pelon]

Hmm... interesting prospect.

I'll say this, the Lang signing was (to me) the joke of the off-season... the idea that we'd try to fill a gaping hole with a stop-gap player.

But, through a couple of pre-season games, It's looking like maybe the joke's on me! I hope so... in really hope so!

Here's one thing I'll give Lang right off... he's got quickness that none of our other linemen have. Ekuban and Brown have almost no chance of doing anything in the backfield. Lang looks like he can actually disrupt some plays.

Way too early to tell, but at worst... he looks like he'll be a nice boost to a line sorely needing a play-maker. I'll call him a "poor man's" Alfred Williams, for now.... which is better than anything we had.

Very encouraging.

You're pretty much just locked in to being a DL hater, eh? This is the DL you're gonna see all year, make the most of it, deal with it, get off your negativism. Your negativism is getting to be your identity.

[Popps]

You're pretty much just locked in to being a DL hater, eh? This is the DL you're gonna see all year, make the most of it, deal with it, get off your negativism. Your negativism is getting to be your identity.

Yea, I'm locked into reality... you're right. Our defensive line has been our downfall since 1998. We've been bringing in scrubs like Leon Lett every off-sesaon since then, and masking moves like that as being "frugal" or smart.
We've made no real effort in a DECADE to improve our line. We've taken cast-offs and scrubs, hoping to catch a blue-light special.

We MIGHT have done that with Warren, though he's paid big $$ now.

We MIGHT have made a nice signing in Lang. We'll need more than two pre-season games to find out. But, either way... it's been 10 years without a premiere player on the d-line. So, let's not pretend we've made some kind of genius move here.

As for my identity, you obviously don't read my posts. Yes, I'm down on our d-line. I'm also a very UP on our offense, I'm thrilled about the Walker addition... and I'm actually a guy who backs Jake Plummer and doesn't blame global warming on the guy.

So, am I negative because I just you're basing that on facts, or because I happen to miss the koolaid pass-arround on ONE topic?

[WABronco]

Hmm... interesting prospect.

I'll say this, the Lang signing was (to me) the joke of the off-season... the idea that we'd try to fill a gaping hole with a stop-gap player.

But, through a couple of pre-season games, It's looking like maybe the joke's on me! I hope so... in really hope so!

Here's one thing I'll give Lang right off... he's got quickness that none of our other linemen have. Ekuban and Brown have almost no chance of doing anything in the backfield. Lang looks like he can actually disrupt some plays.

Way too early to tell, but at worst... he looks like he'll be a nice boost to a line sorely needing a play-maker. I'll call him a "poor man's" Alfred Williams, for now.... which is better than anything we had.

Very encouraging.

Yea...in run defense Brown was in the backfield a lot. According to Scientific Football 2006 (KC Joyner), Brown led the team in backfield penetrations. He was our best run-defending lineman last year, by far. He's a good player to have around and he's one of the better power-ends in the league...

But, hopefully Lang can provide some of that pass rush ability that others seem to be lacking.

[-Slap-]

I remember a time when you were real high on Andre Carter.
I've always liked the young man. He's got the Bronco bloodlines and he's a class individual. I also recognize he's only had one really good season. While that shows me he has the ability to be a stud player, I'm not about to outbid a fool like Daniel Snyder to get him.

You know what's funny? He's surrounded by so much talent in Washington, and Gregg Williams scheme is so good, he might actually wind up looking like he was worth that contract. He wouldn't have been worth the money in Denver, though. The pressure would really be on him to produce. Lang is cheaper and he's been a more consistent player throughout his career.

[Paladin]

It has been a real concern for the past 10 years+: where's the pass rush? And the history of the francise is that they have had some good DLinemen over the years, and I just do not understand why they haven't been able to find one or two really good ones out there.

I am afraid that anyone coming in now in a trade would be a 'stop-gap" type player even if were Lily and a draft pick were thrown in. It is possible that a RB could go with it and that might entice a second backup. I have read other teams' sites that say the same thing: good Dlinemen are hard to find. But I would hope that next year there will be one there for the Broncos to take at 32......

[WABronco]

I have read other teams' sites that say the same thing: good Dlinemen are hard to find. But I would hope that next year there will be one there for the Broncos to take at 32......

Well, if you dedicate a first round pick or a first day pick on a DL, the search becomes a lot easier. The Giants probably just found themselves another elite pass rusher with pick 32 from this draft...Mathias Kiwanuka has been a stud so far. He would've looked nice in a Denver uni...

...but I'm more than happy with Cutler and Javon, obviously.

[Cito Pelon]

Yea, I'm locked into reality... you're right. Our defensive line has been our downfall since 1998. We've been bringing in scrubs like Leon Lett every off-sesaon since then, and masking moves like that as being "frugal" or smart.
We've made no real effort in a DECADE to improve our line. We've taken cast-offs and scrubs, hoping to catch a blue-light special.

We MIGHT have done that with Warren, though he's paid big $$ now.

We MIGHT have made a nice signing in Lang. We'll need more than two pre-season games to find out. But, either way... it's been 10 years without a premiere player on the d-line. So, let's not pretend we've made some kind of genius move here.

As for my identity, you obviously don't read my posts. Yes, I'm down on our d-line. I'm also a very UP on our offense, I'm thrilled about the Walker addition... and I'm actually a guy who backs Jake Plummer and doesn't blame global warming on the guy.

So, am I negative because I just you're basing that on facts, or because I happen to miss the koolaid pass-arround on ONE topic?

I read your posts. You touch on different aspects of the team. But there's one topic you jump on constantly - the DL. You're the DL guy, THE DL guy. Give it a rest, eh? This is your DL for this year, it will be addressed next year in the draft, no doubt.
I'll make you a deal - if you give it a rest on the DL, I'll give it a rest on Clennon Porter. Deal?

[Kaylore]

I've always liked the young man. He's got the Bronco bloodlines and he's a class individual. I also recognize he's only had one really good season. While that shows me he has the ability to be a stud player, I'm not about to outbid a fool like Daniel Snyder to get him.
Exactly. I liked that we threw our hat into the ring, but when Snyder went crazy with 30 mil (mostly guaranteed) I just laughed and walked away. That guy is crazy.

[Breck Bronc]

Lang is featured (along with several other Broncos) in this Men's Health piece on the NFL's Secret Training Camp -- namely, U of Miami's off-season conditioning program. Check it out:

http://tinyurl.com/h8aks

Interesting piece. Lang is going to have a good year.Thanks for posting that. Great, great article.

I liked this quote from Andrue Swasey that dispels some myths floating around various NFL team message boards, including our own village idiot Mock, "Anyone who thinks guys are just down here hanging out at South Beach should come and watch."

[WABronco]

Exactly. I liked that we threw our hat into the ring, but when Snyder went crazy with 30 mil (mostly guaranteed) I just laughed and walked away. That guy is crazy.
True...I wanted Carter or Abraham....A LOT.

I'll take the incremental gain this year though, and hopefully we upgrade for real in the next draft with Gaines Adams or Tim Crowder...one of the top guys.

[Popps]

I read your posts. You touch on different aspects of the team. But there's one topic you jump on constantly - the DL. You're the DL guy, THE DL guy. Give it a rest, eh? This is your DL for this year, it will be addressed next year in the draft, no doubt.
I'll make you a deal - if you give it a rest on the DL, I'll give it a rest on Clennon Porter. Deal?

Well, there's no reason to think we'd draft DL high next year. We've had multiple chances to take 1st round prospects, and chose not to.

Trust me, if Lang and Dummervil pan out, and our other guys stay healthy and produce, you won't hear a peep from me on the matter.

But, if we get blown out of another playoff game because we can't stop anyone on 3rd and 13... and our d-linemen are getting stood up all day, I'll be saying the same thing next year.

Our glory days were marked by superior d-line play. The crown gem of that D being a high profile DE that we brought in via free agency.

So, we knew what we had to do then. Now, we're stuck in this bargain basement rut for a decade.

Maybe we struck gold in Lang. I really like what I see so far. But he never had even 10 sacks in Cleveland, so we'll need to see how he produces when he's really on the clock.

[SoCalBronco]

Well, if you dedicate a first round pick or a first day pick on a DL, the search becomes a lot easier. .

Good point. Denver has largely ignored the position in the draft. The last time we used a first day pick on a defensive lineman was way back in 2002 and even there, it was at the tail end of Day 1, in round 3 for Dorsett Davis. We tried the whole throw a bunch of late picks at the problem approach in 2003 with the Clemson kids, Hunt and Mitchell and that didnt work. We have to devote early picks to the DL. We need to be a little more balanced in spreading the resources around. We are overinvested at LB and have put alot into the CB position the last few years as well.

[Natedogg]

Some of the more unrealistic fans around here expected us to land Deacon Jones this off season to magically cure the pass rush. When the best pass rushers available were gutless pukes like John Abraham and one-season wonders like Andre Carter, these people still wanted to bend over to land one of them.

Instead, Shanahan and company calmly surveyed the League and looked for a good player trapped in a bad scheme. Kenard Lang is not a 3-4 linebacker and he was languishing for a low profile organization in transition.

That's why we got a bargain and that's why good organizations don't panic.

and I'm actually a guy who backs Jake Plummer and doesn't blame global warming on the guy.

Hilarious! Two huge belly laughs in the same thread. I called up my buddy from Cleveland and asked who their number 1 pick was this year... so i could know who will be a stud for us in 2010.

[Popps]

True...I wanted Carter or Abraham....A LOT.

I'll take the incremental gain this year though, and hopefully we upgrade for real in the next draft with Gaines Adams or Tim Crowder...one of the top guys.


When you play in an AFC Championship game, and you lose because you can't stop anyone on third down (no pass rush) ... a player like Abraham can make the difference between winning and losing the next year.

Again, Neil Smith. Big ticket DE brought in as the final piece of the defensive puzzle, and it worked brilliantly.

[MechanicalBull]

Of course I would've prefered a better pass rusher but I definitley liked the signing when we got him during the offseason. He stays pretty healthy and can get you 6-8 sacks a year. I look at the signing as low risk/high reward. I see him equaling or surpassing Pryce's output over the last few years. And he is costing a lot less for pretty much the same production than Pryce.

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . .But I would hope that next year there will be one there for the Broncos to take at 32......

Gotta trade up to get the best prospects. They go fast, and you're only renting them for 5 years. Come FA time, you have to trade up to get another to rent for 5 years.

[-Slap-]

No position busts more frequently than defensive linemen drafted between 20-32 in the first round.

I heard Mel Kiper say that once and I believe it. Everybody wants pass rushers and that's the range where all the good ones are gone and people start reaching.

[Cito Pelon]

Trust me, if Lang and Dummervil pan out, and our other guys stay healthy and produce, you won't hear a peep from me on the matter.

I'll buy that. Let's see, pencil in Popps for being peepless . . . . done. You said it, and I don't even have to shut up about Clennon Porter. Peepless, you understand? Peepless!

[alkemical]

Good point. Denver has largely ignored the position in the draft. The last time we used a first day pick on a defensive lineman was way back in 2002 and even there, it was at the tail end of Day 1, in round 3 for Dorsett Davis. We tried the whole throw a bunch of late picks at the problem approach in 2003 with the Clemson kids, Hunt and Mitchell and that didnt work. We have to devote early picks to the DL. We need to be a little more balanced in spreading the resources around. We are overinvested at LB and have put alot into the CB position the last few years as well.


Don't forget Paul Toveosi (2nd round) that never played a down.

[Odysseus]

Some of the more unrealistic fans around here expected us to land Deacon Jones this off season to magically cure the pass rush. When the best pass rushers available were gutless pukes like John Abraham and one-season wonders like Andre Carter, these people still wanted to bend over to land one of them.

Instead, Shanahan and company calmly surveyed the League and looked for a good player trapped in a bad scheme. Kenard Lang is not a 3-4 linebacker and he was languishing for a low profile organization in transition.

That's why we got a bargain and that's why good organizations don't panic.

Agreed. Lions? Titans? I know it's preseason but when do we play somebody? I think the Rams are going to prove a very tough season opener.

Pryce was doing 8-10 sacks so to say the Broncos found a replacement for Pryce is an understatement. We found a CHEAP understatement. I noticed nobody mentioned Bertrand Berry's name so I'm figuring we didn't look terrible out there. The numbers were interesting. I don't know if Titans were ever in that game. Patterson is bringing our DL something they have not had in a LONG time and that is continuity and as the season matures I think that is going to be our secret weapon. Those guys have spent some years together and know how each other moves. It should be interesting.

[Atlas]

Man, he looks quick! He's been all over the field the first two preseason games.

He reminds me a lot of Alfred Williams. And when you look where he is in his career, it's not hard to draw some parallels with where Williams was when he came to the Broncos. Lang is a little older, but they are roughly the same size (Williams is taller), and their careers took similar paths before getting here.

Here's to him producing like Alfred Williams did in Denver!

Since Williams had 13 sacks in 1996 and won 2 SuperBowls with Denver I do hope their career paths are similar!!

[Odysseus]

No position busts more frequently than defensive linemen drafted between 20-32 in the first round.

I heard Mel Kiper say that once and I believe it. Everybody wants pass rushers and that's the range where all the good ones are gone and people start reaching.

Broncos just now learned how to draft WR. Drafting a top flight DT/DE? I'm not holding out hope for that one. I like what they are doing if only they can fan the flames a little hotter.

[Atlas]

Here's one thing I'll give Lang right off... he's got quickness that none of our other linemen have. Ekuban and Brown have almost no chance of doing anything in the backfield. Lang looks like he can actually disrupt some plays.

.

Great observation. Brown will play on first down and Lang on passing downs. I'm not sur of this though, Lang despite his lack of size has beeen really good against the run. Is it possible that Lang starts opposite of Brown this year. With Jackson, Predator ect... replacing Brown on passing downs??

I think it's possible that Ecuban finds himself looking for a job at the start of the regualr season.

[Atlas]

Here's one thing I'll give Lang right off... he's got quickness that none of our other linemen have. Ekuban and Brown have almost no chance of doing anything in the backfield. Lang looks like he can actually disrupt some plays.

.

Great observation. Brown will play on first down and Lang on passing downs. I'm not sure of this though, Lang despite his lack of size has beeen really good against the run. Is it possible that Lang starts opposite of Brown this year. With Jackson, Predator ect... replacing Brown on passing downs??

I think it's possible that Ecuban finds himself looking for a job at the start of the regualr season.

[Atlas]

We MIGHT have made a nice signing in Lang. We'll need more than two pre-season games to find out. But, either way... it's been 10 years without a premiere player on the d-line. So, let's not pretend we've made some kind of genius move here.

?

Pryce was a premire player. Warren is a premire player now.

You have to decide where you are going to spend your money. Some teams spend money on the DL and skimp on the CBs. NE does this. It's all about how you want to distribute your salary cap money. Denver has chosen to spend money on LBs. They also have Champ and Lynch both of whom have sizable contracts.

Because of this philosophy Denver is going to have to go cheap on the DL and try to find FA steals and draft well.

[goldengopher1976]

Some of the more unrealistic fans around here expected us to land Deacon Jones this off season to magically cure the pass rush. When the best pass rushers available were gutless pukes like John Abraham and one-season wonders like Andre Carter, these people still wanted to bend over to land one of them.

Instead, Shanahan and company calmly surveyed the League and looked for a good player trapped in a bad scheme. Kenard Lang is not a 3-4 linebacker and he was languishing for a low profile organization in transition.

That's why we got a bargain and that's why good organizations don't panic.


A thoughtful response and a helpful perspective. I don't respond much, but I've been around the mane for a few years now and it is posts like this one that keep me coming back. Thanks to slap and others for consistently providing high quality input and analysis.


EDIT: I know it says my join date is Aug '06. I had to resubmit goldengopher1976 after simply viewing as goldengopher76 for years after failing to authenticate...

[DomCasual]

Don't forget Paul Toveosi (2nd round) that never played a down.
Yet. He hasn't played a down - yet. He's a late bloomer, probably working out moving rocks in a cornfield somewhere. He doesn't have the wear and tear on his body, so he should be able to play into his 40's.

I see him and Clarette helping the 2010 Denver Broncos.

[BroncoFiend]

Man, he looks quick! He's been all over the field the first two preseason games.

He reminds me a lot of Alfred Williams. And when you look where he is in his career, it's not hard to draw some parallels with where Williams was when he came to the Broncos. Lang is a little older, but they are roughly the same size (Williams is taller), and their careers took similar paths before getting here.

Here's to him producing like Alfred Williams did in Denver!

That's my Adopt-a-Bronco baby!

[BroncoBuff]

Man, he looks quick! He's been all over the field the first two preseason games.

He reminds me a lot of Alfred Williams. And when you look where he is in his career, it's not hard to draw some parallels with where Williams was when he came to the Broncos. Lang is a little older, but they are roughly the same size (Williams is taller), and their careers took similar paths before getting here.

Here's to him producing like Alfred Williams did in Denver!
Wow ... that's a pretty good comparison.

I agree that he and Demetrin Veal were the defensive stars last night ... nice to see it. Although I'd prefer if the STARTERS were making the noise. Obviously Courtney and Gerard Warren are out - hence Veal and Lang on the field so much - but I wish I'd heard more from Michael Myers and Ebenezer ....

Engleberger was on the field near the end of the game, too - that can't be good for his chances.

What did you think of Save? (I didn't see him at all) Amon Gordon? Burton? Kahleed Vaughn? (imo he was a hustling fool - raced over to make a tackle without his helmet on! On the VY touchdown play actually) Corey Jackson? (didnt see him either)

[azbroncfan]

Engleberger is gone, the guy brings nothing. I didn't notice Jackson which isn't good either.

[Atlas]

Although I'd prefer if the STARTERS were making the noise. Obviously Courtney and Gerard Warren are out - hence Veal and Lang on the field so much - but I wish I'd heard more from Michael Myers and Ebenezer ....



Myers and Ecuban are just solid they won't give you many great plays.

I think Ecuban might get cut this year.

[Atlas]

Engleberger is gone, the guy brings nothing. I didn't notice Jackson which isn't good either.

He needs to be cut also. He brings nothing to the table.

[DomCasual]

Engleberger is gone, the guy brings nothing. I didn't notice Jackson which isn't good either.
I agree. I can't believe we gave Middlebrooks up for him.

Oh. Nevermind. :)

[WABronco]

Myers and Ecuban are just solid they won't give you many great plays.

I think Ecuban might get cut this year.
Ebenezer isn't going anywhere. As of right now he's penciled in as our starting RE. He's a more than adequate starter...

[WABronco]

I agree. I can't believe we gave Middlebrooks up for him.

Oh. Nevermind. :)
Yea, Engelberger hasn't shown squat and he's still playing third string. Adios John...

[Drek]

Myers and Ecuban are just solid they won't give you many great plays.

I think Ecuban might get cut this year.
I don't see Ekuban getting cut, he's got a decent sized salary and is better than all but a few other D linemen on our roster. Thats nothing to be happy about, but it'll probably have Ebenezer keeping his job.

I'm still left wishing we would have jumped on La'Roi Glover back when the Rams signed him up dirt cheap. Be a great pairing with Warren in the middle and would help the DEs out a ton.

[orinjkrush]

Some of the more unrealistic fans around here expected us to land Deacon Jones this off season to magically cure the pass rush. When the best pass rushers available were gutless pukes like John Abraham and one-season wonders like Andre Carter, these people still wanted to bend over to land one of them.

Instead, Shanahan and company calmly surveyed the League and looked for a good player trapped in a bad scheme. Kenard Lang is not a 3-4 linebacker and he was languishing for a low profile organization in transition.

That's why we got a bargain and that's why good organizations don't panic.

Slappie, there is absolutely nothin wrong with wantin a Stud RDE. Its our big weak point and has been for years. And yea, Deacon woulda been great.

[-Slap-]

Slappie, there is absolutely nothin wrong with wantin a Stud RDE. Its our big weak point and has been for years. And yea, Deacon woulda been great.
Deacon would have been great, but he's 68 years old now. Unfortunately, John Abraham can't carry his jock, but he wants to be paid more in two months than Jones made in his career.

[-Slap-]

A thoughtful response and a helpful perspective. I don't respond much, but I've been around the mane for a few years now and it is posts like this one that keep me coming back. Thanks to slap and others for consistently providing high quality input and analysis.

Thank you for saying nice stuff about me.......:~ohyah!:

[Popps]

Pryce was a premire player. Warren is a premire player now.


Pryce had his moments. He's been overrated for a long time, though. When was the last time you remember Pryce making a big play in a big game, much less taking over a game? Williams/Smith/Traylor used to make a couple each, every time we played in a big one. When we talk about premiere players, shouldn't we be talking about guys who step in in big games, say... like either Indy game or the Pitt game?

I like Warren, but he's had one good season. I think he's our best linemen and I'm happy he's here, but I'll stop shy of calling him elite.... and keep in mind, we're paying the guy a ton, now! It's not like he's playing cheap. We just got lucky that no one wanted him. (Assuming he continues to pan out.)

You have to decide where you are going to spend your money. Some teams spend money on the DL and skimp on the CBs. NE does this.

New England has had one of the best front sevens in football for a very long time. They've always had guys who could get after the passer.

I understand that you have to spend your money somewhere, but there's a limit to everything.

Again... we had trouble at WR, and went out and made a huge move for a WR.

Shanahan couldn't hit the side of a barn when it came to drafting a CB, so he went out and paid big $$ for Bailey.

We were nearly last in the league in sacks and very bad in most passing categories, and just horrific on third downs.

So, at what point in a ten year span does the bargain hunting get old, and we finally make a play for a couple of real threats for the d-line? Think about the logic of people opposed to that concept. Basically, you can look at how we won two Superbowls... and trace a big part of that to this EXACT approach.... solidifying your D-line with top talent, and yes... high priced free agents.

John Elway had to re-structure his contract so we could afford Neil Smith.

So, people can argue with history if they want, but it's not going to change the facts. We've sucked on the D-line using the "bargain" approach for ten years. Why change anything, right?

[ZONA]

But, either way... it's been 10 years without a premiere player on the d-line. So, let's not pretend we've made some kind of genius move here.



10 years? What about Pryce, Berry, Hayward? Those guys are definately not scrubs.

[Popps]

10 years? What about Pryce, Berry, Hayward? Those guys are definately not scrubs.

We drafted Pryce in 96. See above paragraph on whether or not he's elite.

Berry was great. I was stoked when we brought him in. I was also bummed when we let the door hit him in the ass after a great season.

Hayward? Long gone.

[Taco John]

So, at what point in a ten year span does the bargain hunting get old, and we finally make a play for a couple of real threats for the d-line? Think about the logic of people opposed to that concept. Basically, you can look at how we won two Superbowls... and trace a big part of that to this EXACT approach.... solidifying your D-line with top talent, and yes... high priced free agents.


We won two Superbowls using the exact approach we're using now... Finding bargain free agents who are hungry to prove themselves. We just lucked out because some of them were actually talented. But to say we won Superbowls because we went out targeting high priced top talent is misleading. We were bargain hunting then and have never strayed from that strategy... and we won because our offense consistently put points on the board, allowing for our defense to get and stay aggressive.

[Popps]

We won two Superbowls using the exact approach we're using now... Finding bargain free agents who are hungry to prove themselves. We just lucked out because some of them were actually talented.

Well, you're half-right.

We did get lucky in the production we got from Traylor. Williams got a long-term deal and was 1st round pick. Elway had to re-structure to fit Smith on the roster.

So, it was a bit of both. Yes, we did get lucky to an extent. We also targeted a big-name FA in Smith, who ended up arguably being the biggest difference between us losing to Jacksonville and us winning the following year.

Also remember, we brought in Perry for a fairly large contract early.

We later drafted Pryce with our first round pick.

That's a bit different than signing the Leon Letts of the world... or the entire city of Cleveland.

[Popps]

... and we won because our offense consistently put points on the board, allowing for our defense to get and stay aggressive.

Again, you're half-right.

We had a good offense, but our defense could also stand on its own.

This franchise won perhaps it's biggest game in Kansas City by the score of 14-10.

That means... our offense struggled the entire game, and... gasp... our defense stepped up.

But, that's playoff football 101.

If our offense doesn't score 28 points these days, we're ****ed.

Let's not compare the half-rate, 30th ranked pass-rush we have now to the dominating front 4 we had back in the day. It's not even close.

[watermock]

yeah, we sucked last Saturday night 35-3 till a sympathy score. I forget, we were playing the castrated Titans. I think we take a serious stab at the DL next year tho. This Nash kid is starting to intrigue me if they can screw his head on straight.

Cutler and Scheff seem to have "communication" as well as Kircus. I think DEVO makes the team because because he always makes one big play. He's a one hit wonder every week. It's kinda funny and uncanny.

I don't know that much about Lang, the DL is rotating so fast who knows. Everything else looks fairly set except the backfield and DL.

Lang is getting his chance, but it's a revolving door at that spot.

[meangene]

I'm with Popps on the DL. It is a GRAVE concern. At this point, it seems to me that Lang is an upgrade over Brown and Veal is an upgrade over Myers. At least they have the potential to generate some pass rush. I'm tired of solid run stuffing DL - we need some pass rush. Plus, once again, Brown is on the shelf. Maybe he'll be the one on the outside looking in if he can't get healthy.

[Drek]

Pryce was a premire player. Warren is a premire player now.

You have to decide where you are going to spend your money. Some teams spend money on the DL and skimp on the CBs. NE does this. It's all about how you want to distribute your salary cap money. Denver has chosen to spend money on LBs. They also have Champ and Lynch both of whom have sizable contracts.
The only DL New England has given sizable money to was Richard Seymour, the other major contributors, Wilfork and Warren, were drafted and are still on rookie deals (they also drafted Seymour). It'd be more accurate to say that NE spends their money on LBs where prior to this year they had McGinest, Bruschi, Colvin, and Vrabel all collecting sizable checks compared to the league average. They just draft DL talent very well and know to hang onto it.

We as a team are not as well stocked through draft success as NE has been the last 5 years or so, its an impossible comparison because while they got starting OLs, WRs, and DBs out of the draft's second day we only recently (i.e. last year) had multiple draft successes in a single class period. That has forced the Broncos to outsource an aweful lot of help, at a fair amount of cap expense.

We now look to have a bright future developing at DB, WR, RB, QB (though pricey), and some nice upside projects at OL. In the coming years when guys like Lynch, Plummer, Smith, Nalen, etc. retire we should now have home grown talent stepping into their place at rookie money, which will then free our cap money to do more than just land enough veterans to fill a competative roster but to instead bring in real difference makers at a few key postions.

At least, this looks to be the direction we're headed in. I hope I'm right. :)

[The Moops]

It's crazy that the Browns were trying to make KLang a linebacker.

He had some great years with the Redskins rushing the passer. Plus, he's a heckuva guy off the field.

[BroncoBuff]

I'll say this, the Lang signing was (to me) the joke of the off-season... But, through a couple of pre-season games, It's looking like maybe the joke's on me! I hope so... in really hope so!
At least you can admit it ... we need more of that around here imo.

Come to think of it, we need more of that in my work environement.

AND - in my social circle ... my family ... national politics ... Uhh

[alkemical]

Shanahan couldn't hit the side of a barn when it came to drafting a CB, so he went out and paid big $$ for Bailey.




I think he did ok - I mean O'Neal is starting in the league, our 2nd year CB's seem pretty good. When walls wasn't hurt he was a servicible CB (wouldn't be a premier CB) -

I think he can't draft WR to save his ass IMO

[BroncoInferno]

Our glory days were marked by superior d-line play.

Well, while our DL in those days was certainly very good (and better than what we have now), you have to remember that Robinson's schemes were blitz crazy, so it isn't like we were generating pass rush with just our front four even in those days. Remember in SB 32 when Shanny tells Robinson to "Do what you normally do" on GBs final drive? Robinson replies, "Blitz a lot?" and Shanny says, "Yeah, whatever you would normally do". Those were blitz happy teams. I certainly see what you are saying, though; we've only drafted four or five DL on the first day of the draft in the entire Shanny era, so that position certainly needs to be addressed next offseason.

[-Slap-]

The only DL New England has given sizable money to was Richard Seymour, the other major contributors, Wilfork and Warren, were drafted and are still on rookie deals (they also drafted Seymour). It'd be more accurate to say that NE spends their money on LBs where prior to this year they had McGinest, Bruschi, Colvin, and Vrabel all collecting sizable checks compared to the league average. They just draft DL talent very well and know to hang onto it.

The Broncos didn't spend any money on their defensive line during their championship run, either.

Alfred Williams had an up and down career in four mostly disappointing seasons with the Bengals. In 1995 he went to San Francisco and didn't start a single game. The Broncos signed him to a bargain contract in 1996 and he responded with an excellent season. We only took a chance on him because Shanahan talked to some of his 49er coaching contracts and they insisted Alfred was just misunderstood.

Alfred's 13 regular season sacks didn't help against Mark Brunell, though, and the Broncos went down to defeat.

Alfred started every game in 1996. He also started every game in 1997 when he registered 8.5 sacks.

Its right around here that people begin to develop selective memories. See, Alfred Williams didn't do jack**** for the 1998 team, except keep the Greek busy trying to fix his chronic tricep problems. After another injury plagued season in 1999, Williams retired from the NFL.

Everything posted above can be documented right here. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/profiles/stats/primary/1460.html)

Neil Smith was signed in the aftermath of the Jacksonville Incident. The thinking was we needed another bookend defensive end to help Alfred pressure the quarterback. Lord knows Brunell made Romo look like a bumbling fool on his blitz attempts in that game.

Neil Smith signed a one year contract for $3 million in 1997. Not chump change, but hardly a huge deal.

Documentation here. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/events/1997/nflpreview/AFCWEST/broncos.html)

Our only mistake was giving him $13.6 million over four years when we extended his contract the following season. (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E3DE1E30F931A25750C0A96E9582 60&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fS%2f Smith%2c%20Neil) Damned Super Bowl hangover. You better believe Shanahan would be much more heartless in similar circumstances today.

Shanahan has never pursued the top high dollar defensive ends on the market. This has spared us the agony of big money deals for the likes of Hugh Douglas and Marcellus Wiley and all the other trendy DEs who hit the market any given off season.

[BroncoBuff]

Alfred Williams accomplished all that is possible in the game of football:

First-Team All-America with the COLORADO BUFFALOES
NCAA National Championship with the COLORADO BUFFALOES
First-Team All-Pro with the DENVER BRONCOS
Super Bowl Victories with the DENVER BRONCOS
That's a perfect football resume ...

Both individual and team perfection at the same time ...

If it was a poker game, he has FOUR ACES ...

That's all BroncoBuff needs to hear.

[BroncoInferno]

The Broncos didn't spend any money on their defensive line during their championship run, either.

Alfred Williams had an up and down career in four mostly disappointing seasons with the Bengals. In 1995 he went to San Francisco and didn't start a single game. The Broncos signed him to a bargain contract in 1996 and he responded with an excellent season. We only took a chance on him because Shanahan talked to some of his 49er coaching contracts and they insisted Alfred was just misunderstood.

Alfred's 13 regular season sacks didn't help against Mark Brunell, though, and the Broncos went down to defeat.

Alfred started every game in 1996. He also started every game in 1997 when he registered 8.5 sacks.

Its right around here that people begin to develop selective memories. See, Alfred Williams didn't do jack**** for the 1998 team, except keep the Greek busy trying to fix his chronic tricep problems. After another injury plagued season in 1999, Williams retired from the NFL.

Everything posted above can be documented right here. (http://espn.go.com/nfl/profiles/stats/primary/1460.html)

Neil Smith was signed in the aftermath of the Jacksonville Incident. The thinking was we needed another bookend defensive end to help Alfred pressure the quarterback. Lord knows Brunell made Romo look like a bumbling fool on his blitz attempts in that game.

Neil Smith signed a one year contract for $3 million in 1997. Not chump change, but hardly a huge deal.

Documentation here. (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/events/1997/nflpreview/AFCWEST/broncos.html)

Our only mistake was giving him $13.6 million over four years when we extended his contract the following season. (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E3DE1E30F931A25750C0A96E9582 60&n=Top%2fReference%2fTimes%20Topics%2fPeople%2fS%2f Smith%2c%20Neil) Damned Super Bowl hangover. You better believe Shanahan would be much more heartless in similar circumstances today.

Shanahan has never pursued the top high dollar defensive ends on the market. This has spared us the agony of big money deals for the likes of Hugh Douglas and Marcellus Wiley and all the other trendy DEs who hit the market any given off season.

Good post, Slap. People seem to remember us having this dominating front four during the SB run, but that wasn't really the case. Oh, we had a very good front four--certainly better than our current group--but people forget how blitz crazy Robinson's schemes were even in the SB years. We blitzed on practically every down in SB 32.

I think not dropping tons of cash on free agent DL has been wise fiscally, but where Popps' argument has the most merit is in the fact that we rarely invest draft choices on DL. Pryce, Heyward, Toviessi, Campbell, Monte Reagor and Dorsett Davis are the only first day choices we have made on the DL in the 12 drafts Shanny has presided over. We have made zero first day DL choices since the 2002 draft (Davis). It's fine to avoid the free agency bidding wars that result in the Marcellus Wiley's of the world getting inflated signing bonuses, but there is no excuse for the paltry investment made towrds the DL come draft day..

[Atlas]

Good post, Slap. People seem to remember us having this dominating front four during the SB run, but that wasn't really the case. Oh, we had a very good front four--certainly better than our current group--but people forget how blitz crazy Robinson's schemes were even in the SB years. We blitzed on practically every down in SB 32.

I think not dropping tons of cash on free agent DL has been wise fiscally, but where Popps' argument has the most merit is in the fact that we rarely invest draft choices on DL. Pryce, Heyward, Toviessi, Campbell, Monte Reagor and Dorsett Davis are the only first day choices we have made on the DL in the 12 drafts Shanny has presided over. We have made zero first day DL choices since the 2002 draft (Davis). It's fine to avoid the free agency bidding wars that result in the Marcellus Wiley's of the world getting inflated signing bonuses, but there is no excuse for the paltry investment made towrds the DL come draft day..


The bottom line is that you have to watch how you use your draft picks and where you put your money. I like what Denver has done, it would have been nice in hindsight if the had kept Berry, but they didn't go that way. After the last two drafts Denver is very solid everywhere except Dline. I look for Denver next year to shore that up and let the friggin dynasty begin!!!!!

[BroncoBuff]

Good post, Slap. People seem to remember us having this dominating front four during the SB run, but that wasn't really the case. Oh, we had a very good front four--certainly better than our current group--but people forget how blitz crazy Robinson's schemes were even in the SB years. We blitzed on practically every down in SB 32.
So true ... G. Robinson blitzed all year, and he blitzed Favre from every direction...

I think not dropping tons of cash on free agent DL has been wise fiscally, but where Popps' argument has the most merit is in the fact that we rarely invest draft choices on DL.
You, Popps and -Slap- are all correct imo ... but I bet you'll all agree with me that the LEAST wise move/non-move by Shanahan was not signing the check for Bertie Berry, a bona-fide sack machine.

But now - with the Eagles supposedly interested in some guys - we couldda shipped them Tatum, Lelie and a late pick for Boderick Bunkley while he was holding out ... but now he signed, and had 1 1/2 sacks in his first game.

With the numbers payed for Abraham, Andre Carter, Trevor ... it's looking like pass-rushing DEs have become latter-day left offensive tackles, commanding far more $$ than they used to.

[-Slap-]

I bet you'll all agree with me that the LEAST wise move/non-move by Shanahan was not signing the check for Bertie Berry, a bona-fide sack machine.


I disagree about Berry.

People forget how old Bertrand Berry is because he spent the first five years of his career not doing jack****. Shanahan brought him in and gave him a chance. We coached him up and turned him into a player. Unfortunately, he was pushing 30 at that point (death for speed rushers as certanly as it is for running backs) and we wisely decided to let Arizona drop a ton of money on him. He had one big year for them and then missed half of last season with injuries. Now he's coming back this year at 31 with a big cap number.

We're better off without him. What pissed me off was instead of showing gratitude to Shanahan and company for turning him into a player, Bertrand decided to talk a gang of **** walking out the door. I didn't weep when he went down last year. We'll see how much he's got left in the tank now.

[Clockwork Orange]

I disagree about Berry.

People forget how old Bertrand Berry is because he spent the first five years of his career not doing jack****. Shanahan brought him in and gave him a chance. We coached him up and turned him into a player. Unfortunately, he was pushing 30 at that point (death for speed rushers as certanly as it is for running backs) and we wisely decided to let Arizona drop a ton of money on him. He had one big year for them and then missed half of last season with injuries. Now he's coming back this year at 31 with a big cap number.

We're better off without him. What pissed me off was instead of showing gratitude to Shanahan and company for turning him into a player, Bertrand decided to talk a gang of **** walking out the door. I didn't weep when he went down last year. we'll see how much he's got left in the tank now.

It should be noted that Berry left the game in New England on Saturday with a left knee injury. He seems to be becoming increasingly fragile these days.

[-Slap-]

It should be noted that Berry left the game in New England on Saturday with a left knee injury. He seems to be becoming increasingly fragile these days.
The depreciation rate of pass rushing defensive ends after 30 almost mirrors that of running backs. Guys like Reggie White, Bruce Smith and Michael Strahan are Hall of Famers because they're freaks.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

The bottom line is that you have to watch how you use your draft picks and where you put your money. I like what Denver has done, it would have been nice in hindsight if the had kept Berry, but they didn't go that way. After the last two drafts Denver is very solid everywhere except Dline. I look for Denver next year to shore that up and let the friggin dynasty begin!!!!!

Like I said on another thread, assuming the QB, WR and OL depth problems are fixed with this year's activity, I would like the Broncos to draft about five DL next year in hopes that 2-3 turn out. I understand safety is an issue, but you can get decent safties in FA much cheaper than you can get DL

[Popps]

At least you can admit it ... we need more of that around here imo.

Come to think of it, we need more of that in my work environement.

AND - in my social circle ... my family ... national politics ... Uhh

Oh man, I've made some doozies. I predicted that Watts and T. Bell would be firmly entrenched as starters... by LAST season.

We all strike out.

But, like I said... I hope I was as wrong as I could possibly be about Lang. If he's a major disrupter/pass-rusher for us, it could be the difference between winning and losing a game like the Pitt game, imo.

[Popps]

The bottom line is that you have to watch how you use your draft picks and where you put your money. I like what Denver has done, it would have been nice in hindsight if the had kept Berry, but they didn't go that way. After the last two drafts Denver is very solid everywhere except Dline. I look for Denver next year to shore that up and let the friggin dynasty begin!!!!!

Well, Berry's contract really doesn't look bad, now. Imagine if he had been racking up double-digit sacks for us instead of Arizona last year. Things might have ended differently.

Again, when Shanahan got to Denver, he went right after the defensive line. It was his priority from the get-go. He finished the puzzle with a high priced FA in Neil Smith, and we won a SB.

As for us being a blitzing team back then, well.. what are we now? The ONLY pass rush we could generate last year was with the blitz. We were among the worst in the league at front 4 pass pressures/sacks. There were single players in the league that had more sacks than our entire line.
The 97/98 teams could get after the passer even when we didn't blitz, and certainly disrupted more running plays in the backfield, forced more fumbles, etc. We also had guys like Romo and Atwater, who were very savvy blitzers.

At one point, Shanahan knew the importance of a dominant, disruptive front four. Somewhere along the line, he decided that Leon Lett, Kavika Pittman and Maco Coleman were good enough.

Hence, we've been horrible in passing situations ever since. People can argue with the factual results of history all they want, but it won't change them.

[Natedogg]

Good post, Slap. People seem to remember us having this dominating front four during the SB run, but that wasn't really the case. Oh, we had a very good front four--certainly better than our current group--but people forget how blitz crazy Robinson's schemes were even in the SB years. We blitzed on practically every down in SB 32.

I think not dropping tons of cash on free agent DL has been wise fiscally, but where Popps' argument has the most merit is in the fact that we rarely invest draft choices on DL. Pryce, Heyward, Toviessi, Campbell, Monte Reagor and Dorsett Davis are the only first day choices we have made on the DL in the 12 drafts Shanny has presided over. We have made zero first day DL choices since the 2002 draft (Davis). It's fine to avoid the free agency bidding wars that result in the Marcellus Wiley's of the world getting inflated signing bonuses, but there is no excuse for the paltry investment made towrds the DL come draft day..


True. Don't forget Keith Tractor Traylor. I think he won that KC playoff game in 97. Another solid example of a great value player shanny picked up in FA. Who elese was on the 97 SB line again? Was in Maa Tanuvasa?

[SureShot]

Alfred Williams accomplished all that is possible in the game of football:

First-Team All-America with the COLORADO BUFFALOES
NCAA National Championship with the COLORADO BUFFALOES
First-Team All-Pro with the DENVER BRONCOS
Super Bowl Victories with the DENVER BRONCOS
That's a perfect football resume ...

Both individual and team perfection at the same time ...

If it was a poker game, he has FOUR ACES ...

That's all BroncoBuff needs to hear.

Don't forget the Butkus Award in 1990!! Go Buffs!

[Drek]

Its important to keep in mind though that this isn't the 90s where teams are still getting used to FA and making stupid mistakes. Quality DEs don't hit the market. Abraham did because he was an asshole and he still got the Jets a 1st round pick. Carter is far from proven and still netted a real nice deal.

In today's NFL there are three legitimate positions you can't buy studs at in FA. QB, WR, and DE. There's a shortage at all three so teams hang onto the good ones when they can. We need to start drafting guys early and often if we want some production out of the line.

[BroncoBuff]

Again, when Shanahan got to Denver, he went right after the defensive line. It was his priority from the get-go. He finished the puzzle with a high priced FA in Neil Smith, and we won a SB. ...

At one point, Shanahan knew the importance of a dominant, disruptive front four. Somewhere along the line, he decided that Leon Lett, Kavika Pittman and Marco Coleman were good enough.
.... and Chester McGlockton .... and Michael Dean Perry ... and (?) Washington ... and Anton Palepoi ... and Darryl Gardener ... and even interchangeable names: Luther Elliss ... Ellis Johnson ... Raylee Johnson.
And for that matter (though these guys have succeeded) Gerard Warren ... Courtney Brown ... Michael Myers ... Ebenezer and now Lang.

His drafts on the D-Line have been so awful ... Toviessi, etc., maybe he's gun-shy. It's funny, but there were several times last year I wished we still had Anton Palepoi. Maybe he did svck against the run - but he ran QBs outta the pocket for us while Trevor was out. Gotta love him for that at least.

Right now I think we should take a run at coaxing "Big Daddy" Dan Wilkinson outta retirement. He is an iron-man durable run-stuffing force. He could play with Demetrin Veal in a rotation defense - he'd like that because he's played like EVERY SNAP the last four or five years. Durable as heck. PLUS - in addition to the platoon - he'd have a shot at a ring. :lombardi:

[fdf]

I like Warren, but he's had one good season. I think he's our best linemen and I'm happy he's here, but I'll stop shy of calling him elite....

I think my adopt-a-bronc is going to take over the DL this year. Coyer will turn his loose and he will tear things up. By the end of the year, elite!

[BroncoBuff]

Oops!

Both me AND the Denver Broncos ...

http://www.miamidolphins.com/newsite/team/roster/playerBio.asp?docid=21643

I know he's yet another retread a-la Popps' post, but he wouldda been the perfect 1st and 2nd down guy for this team ... let Veal play third downs.

[Popps]

True. Don't forget Keith Tractor Traylor. I think he won that KC playoff game in 97. Another solid example of a great value player shanny picked up in FA. Who elese was on the 97 SB line again? Was in Maa Tanuvasa?

Tanuvassa was actually a pretty talented player inside. But, he also benefitted from highly productive guys around him.

There's nothing wrong with "value." It's only a problem when you talk yourself into the idea that you NEVER have to spend any real money or draft picks over a 10 year span to improve your line.

Yes, we maximized dollar spent in the SB days, but we also prioritized the D-line. It wasn't an afterthought filled with players like Ekuban.

Again, Shanahan got to Denver and went immediately to work on that line, bringing in Perry to a fairly large contract. Then signed Williams to a long-term deal, then later a big name FA in Smith and later drafted Pryce with a 1st round pick.

Vastly different than the poo-poo'ing we've done with the line since then.

[alkemical]

Tanuvassa was actually a pretty talented player inside. But, he also benefitted from highly productive guys around him.

There's nothing wrong with "value." It's only a problem when you talk yourself into the idea that you NEVER have to spend any real money or draft picks over a 10 year span to improve your line.

Yes, we maximized dollar spent in the SB days, but we also prioritized the D-line. It wasn't an afterthought filled with players like Ekuban.

Again, Shanahan got to Denver and went immediately to work on that line, bringing in Perry to a fairly large contract. Then signed Williams to a long-term deal, then later a big name FA in Smith and later drafted Pryce with a 1st round pick.

Vastly different than the poo-poo'ing we've done with the line since then.


Well yes and no.

I mean we did let heyward go, and we let (although i agreed with it) berry go - pryce was THE man on the line and shanny tried to build around him. Alot of the picks busted out or were let go - and our DT's true we haven't gotten a premier DT in the draft - but really the DL has been consistant - one Stud DL - and a bunch of young guys and rotational players.

[Odysseus]

I am glad the Broncos let Berry, Pryce and Heyward. Heyward was good but worth the money the Cardinals are giving him? I think our DL will be better than advertised. I think they are going to gel as the season emerges but that said I think they have a long way to go. At this point from what I am seeing and the for the price we are paying I would have to say that I am satisfied.