Cutler mania, Plummer panic

[Circle Orange]

All right, enough is enough. Broncophiles everywhere, it's time to fess up. In the deepest, darkest corners of your heart...

YOU WANT A QUARTERBACK CONTROVERSY!

Yes, everyone's drooling over Jay already, and mad comparisons are being made to a-certain-guy-we-all-know-from-before. Players and coaches are coming apart, saying they see reminders. Of course the obligitory "let's not get carried away" statement is tossed in, right before everyone gets carried away. Now can you imagine what Jake is thinking at home about the Cutler madness?

*grumbles. Damn kid ain't done s----, and everyone's talkin' like he's goin' to the HOF*

And can you imagine what Jay is thinking as he drives in his modest car to training camp?

*All I gotta do is wait. Plummer's lame, and his contract is almost up. Everyone knows I got the right stuff!*

Meanwhile, everyone smiles and kisses nice. Ol' Mikey poo gives polite press conferences...

"We're pleased with Jay's progression. But everyone please remember he's just a rookie!"

Then goes to his office and tapdances...

*Damn! When can I put this kid in, and what excuse can I use??*

Players calmly tell the media Jay somewhat reminds them of John, but only somewhat. And that the media is now getting carried away, too (then promptly go do cartwheels in the showers.)

Pat Bowlen dusts off his orange suit, grinning...

And the spin continues. :approve: :notworthy

[ludo21]

Ha!

thats pretty much exactly it. Im stoked for Plummer this year, i think he steps up and has another great season. But the future looks so bright, its freaking awesome and hard to not think about!

[obediah]

I would have to agree with you, Plummer had a great season last year and in my opinion was the only one playing in the Playoff game against the Steelers. No i dont think Plummer is another Elway, but im glad its him and not that poodle trippin Greise.. I just really hope that Mike doesnt make the same mistake of switching out QBs all season like he did after Elway retired. I think Cutler needs a lot more experience before he puts on the crown.

Obediah

[JCMElway]

I would have to agree with you, Plummer had a great season last year and in my opinion was the only one playing in the Playoff game against the Steelers. No i dont think Plummer is another Elway, but im glad its him and not that poodle trippin Greise.. I just really hope that Mike doesnt make the same mistake of switching out QBs all season like he did after Elway retired. I think Cutler needs a lot more experience before he puts on the crown.

Obediah

Welcome to the Mane, Ob!

[Hotrod]

Noooooooooooo

This is Jakes team and it has a shot at the big time IMO dont ruin it with a rookie. Im huge on Jay Cut but once teams start game planning some rookie learning will be inorder.

Just say no to QB controversy.

[jonny1]

My guess is that Jake has a really good year, but the Broncos fall a little bit short again in the playoffs, then trade Jake for a #1 or #2 pick (hopefully a #1), and next year load up on defensive linemen . . .

[Kaylore]

I'll bite my tongue. After watching them both everyday for a week and a half...anyway, here's to a great Broncos season. :angel:

[obediah]

Thanks JCMElway, been a great day since i found you guys. Had a warm welcome already and even though my posts can sometimes be a little radical and out there, everyone seems to be real cool here.

Obediah

[Hotrod]

You all better hope orange 4 life dont see this thread Ha!

[Hotrod]

Ha! I just saw him on another thread you all are about to get a talking to...and rightfully so...

Get'em O4L

[ludo21]

You all better hope orange 4 life dont see this thread Ha!


ROFL! thats the first thing i thought!

[obediah]

Sorry didnt mean to go off topic.

Obediah

[ward63]

My guess is that Jake has a really good year, but the Broncos fall a little bit short again in the playoffs, then trade Jake for a #1 or #2 pick (hopefully a #1), and next year load up on defensive linemen . . .

I'd be pretty happy if that'd happen, but I'd also like to see Plummer be willing to take a pay cut and stay here.

[Odysseus]

I would have to agree with you, Plummer had a great season last year and in my opinion was the only one playing in the Playoff game against the Steelers. No i dont think Plummer is another Elway, but im glad its him and not that poodle trippin Greise.. I just really hope that Mike doesnt make the same mistake of switching out QBs all season like he did after Elway retired. I think Cutler needs a lot more experience before he puts on the crown.

Obediah

You post like a god! Small g but good post in any case. WELCOME!

Poor Plummer. If he shows up with a runny nose or a paper cut he'll be holding a clipboard. He's in the same situation as Bledsoe. There are so many things that I like about Cutler but my hope is that the Broncos let him mature at HIS pace and give him some time to make mistakes on paper.

[freak6]

Funny stuff. I totally agree with Circle. But no controversy, not unless Jake stumbles out the gate to a 1-3 start.

[penguintheory]

The worst thing is, the last thing we need for Plummer is for us to want him to make mistakes - each blunder is a double-edged sword in a way, because although it hurts the team it brings us that much closer to having Cutler start.

Let's hope for another error-minimal season by Plummer.

[ward63]

I really only want to see Cutler when we need like a half-ending hail mary or something like that.

[Steve Sewell]

If we see Cutler starting this year it will be for all the wrong reasons. Let's hope that there aren't any.

[GonzoLays]

I would have to agree with you, Plummer had a great season last year and in my opinion was the only one playing in the Playoff game against the Steelers. No i dont think Plummer is another Elway, but im glad its him and not that poodle trippin Greise.. I just really hope that Mike doesnt make the same mistake of switching out QBs all season like he did after Elway retired. I think Cutler needs a lot more experience before he puts on the crown.

Obediah

U'hhh, Plummer turned the ball over three times against the Steelers. Two horrendous passes for interceptions and one untimely fumble. On both interceptions he had wide open receivers. Yet he was the only one playing?

Safe to say if Plummer didn't turn the ball over three times, we probably would be World Champions right now.

[freak6]

Let's hope for another error-minimal season by Plummer.

Totally agree. We had the AFC Championship game in our house last season. Anyone who wishes Plummer to play poorly so Jay can get in needs to look in the mirror and realize they are more of a Cutler fanatic than a BRONCO FAN. I am hyped up about the Kid too, but Plummer had a great season last year. This year we are going to open up the passing game more. So Jake will have every opportunity to succeed or fail. With our talent, I think he will succeed, and I look forward to a great battle next summer at QB.

[bendog]

Actually it wasn't something you said but rather what you choose to ignore to continue trolling.

[Crushaholic]

Watching the Chiefs game last night, it became very clear that they are screwed if TrINT has to leave the game. I feel confident in our backup QB situation with Cutler. I just hope he DOES have the patience to wait it out until Plummer is ready to hang up the cleats.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I'd be pretty happy if that'd happen, but I'd also like to see Plummer be willing to take a pay cut and stay here.

I still think when Plummer loses the starting position, he packs his money in his Honda Element and drives off to that cabin by the lake in Idaho with no phone. I think he is tired of the public attention.

[toad]

I see it very much playing out like the Kitna/Palmer situation in Cincy....or possibly the Brees/Rivers situation in SD.

My guess is Jake has another solid year...along the same stat lines as last year.

If we don't get to the Super Bowl, the QB contreversy begins next camp....with Cutler likely winning out and Plummer taking a season on the bench.

If Cutler pans out, to any degree of success, Plummer gets traded away the following year.

If we do get to (or win) the Super Bowl, then its a major QB conterversy and Cutler may spend 2 seasons on the bench a'la Philip Rivers.

[obediah]

U'hhh, Plummer turned the ball over three times against the Steelers. Two horrendous passes for interceptions and one untimely fumble. On both interceptions he had wide open receivers. Yet he was the only one playing?

That is because no one else was playing. he was getting no time in the pocket and having to scramble like a mad man. Im not saying he wasnt without fault, but that game i didnt see the Broncos offense play, i saw some guys with their jerseys on, but didnt see a damn one of them actually put heart into the game, except plummer, Just an opinion though. You have to remember that last season we had the least turnovers in the entire NFL, that is a HUGE stat. Plummer had something to do with that. Again i will say that Plummer was not without fault in that game.

Obediah

[dbfan4life]

A QB change would mean our season has gone in the crapper. Jake's our man this year and I feel that he is completely capable of getting the job done. There will be someone calling for his head the first time he throws a pick, though.

[obediah]

well said, I really hope that Mikey-poo doesnt swap-a-roo them. Not only will it mess with the dynamics of the team leadership, but all that does is bring the QBs down and not willing to give it all for the team. We saw this before after Elway retired, Mikey's worst mistake. other than almost bringing that retard T.O. to Denver,, thank G*d he is in Dallas...

Obediah

[Sassy]

That is because no one else was playing. he was getting no time in the pocket and having to scramble like a mad man. Im not saying he wasnt without fault, but that game i didnt see the Broncos offense play, i saw some guys with their jerseys on, but didnt see a damn one of them actually put heart into the game, except plummer, Just an opinion though. You have to remember that last season we had the least turnovers in the entire NFL, that is a HUGE stat. Plummer had something to do with that. Again i will say that Plummer was not without fault in that game.

Obediah
I agree...Jake did put his heart and soul into that game!
Welcome! :welcome:

[2KBack]

well said, I really hope that Mikey-poo doesnt swap-a-roo them. Not only will it mess with the dynamics of the team leadership, but all that does is bring the QBs down and not willing to give it all for the team. We saw this before after Elway retired, Mikey's worst mistake. other than almost bringing that retard T.O. to Denver,, thank G*d he is in Dallas...

Obediah

You've said this twice now. When did shanny switch QB's around mid-season without injuries being a factor?

[obediah]

You've said this twice now. When did shanny switch QB's around mid-season without injuries being a factor?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/1999/1006/99706.html

that wasnt an isolated event either.

Obediah

[2KBack]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/1999/1006/99706.html

that wasnt an isolated event either.

Obediah

Good pull, but I can't say that I remember that being any sort of habit. Griese was shellshocked his first starting season, and Brister just sucks. It's a totally different situation today. It's competition between a pro-bowler and a rookie. The 1999 season was more of a year long preseason. You're right that it would suck if he shuffled these guys this year. I just don't see it happening though.

[obediah]

but I can't say that I remember that being any sort of habit.

Mikey seemed to play QB swap for almost two season and maybe not actually switching them out everytime but their was a threat there for all of them. here is a few more examples of the table turning, yet again.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2000/0322/440006.html

http://archive.sportingnews.com/nfl/articles/20000329/226949-p.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/recaps/1999/10/10/raiders_broncos/

Im not saying your wrong in saying Brister sucks, hell yeah he does and as far as im conceared so does Griese, his dad gave him knowledge but that boy is short on talent, you need both to take a team to The Bowl. The fact that Mike had this Threat over them that if they screw up they are going to lose their #1 slot was rediculious especially for how long it carried on. Personally i was glad when all of them were gone and we got Plummer, Breath of fresh air really.

Obediah

[Meck77]

Screw Jake and this guy cutler you guys are talking about. BVP will take the starting job and stun EVERYONE I SAY!!!!!

[2KBack]

Mikey seemed to play QB swap for almost two season and maybe not actually switching them out everytime but their was a threat there for all of them. here is a few more examples of the table turning, yet again.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/news/2000/0322/440006.html

http://archive.sportingnews.com/nfl/articles/20000329/226949-p.html

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/recaps/1999/10/10/raiders_broncos/

Im not saying your wrong in saying Brister sucks, hell yeah he does and as far as im conceared so does Griese, his dad gave him knowledge but that boy is short on talent, you need both to take a team to The Bowl. The fact that Mike had this Threat over them that if they screw up they are going to lose their #1 slot was rediculious especially for how long it carried on. Personally i was glad when all of them were gone and we got Plummer, Breath of fresh air really.

Obediah

Haha, you got me on the first article earlier, but these don't count. The first one was in march, it was talking about training camp competition for Griese, which isn't shuffling, it's a good thing. The next article is just Brister being waived, and the third is the same raider game you posted earlier. I see why I didn't remember the shuffle though, since after being named starter Brister injured his ribs and Griese started anyway. Job security isn't always a good thing in the NFL, I want my guys to know that they have to perfrom, or someone else will. That doesn't mean I want guys changing week to week, but if Plummer goes 0-4 to start the season, I won't argue with a change.

[obediah]

your right about those other articles, im at work so wasnt able to read through them completely, I will still stand by that not having confidence in your QB that is suppose to be leading the offense is not very wise at all. That threat hung over their heads for almost 2 seasons and they did switch around. i think it was a very poor decision on mikes part to do that, however he didnt have anybody worth anything to work with. The stress of that threat on top of being in Elways shadow and trying to fill his shoes would be too much for any QB to take. By all means there should be a push for their best performance, but not like that.

Obediah

[NFLBRONCO]

If Cutler has a solid preseason I think Jay watch will be week to week in 06. If he plays poorly then I think very limited action in 06. I want Cutler to sit in 06 most of all myself but, I expect Denver to play him this year even with Plummer healthy. We will see how this pans out. Jay is still a ROOKIE and will make tons of mistakes.

[Hulamau]

That is because no one else was playing. he was getting no time in the pocket and having to scramble like a mad man. Im not saying he wasnt without fault, but that game i didnt see the Broncos offense play, i saw some guys with their jerseys on, but didnt see a damn one of them actually put heart into the game, except plummer, Just an opinion though. You have to remember that last season we had the least turnovers in the entire NFL, that is a HUGE stat. Plummer had something to do with that. Again i will say that Plummer was not without fault in that game.

Obediah


That game was an equal opportunity FUBAR on both sides of the ball!

[obediah]

I totally agree with that. Steelers wanted it, we didnt seem to.

Obediah

[Kid A]

http://tahoecelebritygolf.com/Players/images/shanahan-mike-3.jpg

"Enough is enough! I have had it with this mother****in' Snake on this mother****in' team!"

[freak6]

I totally agree with that. Steelers wanted it, we didnt seem to.

Obediah

I totally disagree. The effort was there. We got outcoached and out played. Coyer had a poor defensive gameplan, and failed to adjust at halftime. Our corners played behind the WRs to much. Lynch flat out said that the gameplan killed them, and they didn't change it. I think we also blew 2 huge opportunities on the 1st drive where Champ missed the pick 6. Lynch decks Ward but he holds onto the tipped ball. And the fumble that should have been.

On top of that Jake throws the worst pass of his career towards the end of the 1st half, leading to a TD over Nick Ferguson.

Jake choked. The coaches choked. Just a bad day at the office, but the effort was there.

[Circle Orange]

scene: season opener at the New Mile High. News media in the stands, getting opinions from average "joes."

ADF (average dumb fan)
R (reporter)



ADF "Jake's da man."
R "What happens if he throws a pick?"
ADF "Then Jay's the man."
R "Wait. I thought you guys liked Jake here in Denver!"
ADT "We do. Until he messes up. And we know he's gonna mess up."
R "That hardly seems fair. His numbers were great this past season."
ADT "So what? Last year's story is this year's history. Don't care."
R "Are all fans so fickle? What about the outcry to get him here?"
ADT "Yeah, well...he cracks when the stakes are high, know what I mean?"
R "But what about the rest of the team? Didn't they lay down against the Steelers?"
ADT "Maybe. But ain't great quarterbacks supposed to lift everybody, and all that stuff they say?"
R "It's been said. But everyone has to do their job-"
ADT "You sound like those cop outs at the papers. First you build him up, now you tear him down."
R "We only reflect what the people want to read."
ADT "Yeah right. You tell us what to think."
R "Just doing my job. Kind of drunk, aren't you?"
ADT "You know it. I'm a wine eater and cheese sipper."
R "That doesn't sound right..."
ADT "Dig it."
R "Cutler's a rookie. What if he struggles?"
ADT "So what if he throws picks? You see the cannon on that kid?"
R "But you said if Jake throws a pick, he's out-"
ADT "Well, Shanahan can't ever run his whole offense with 16 here. He tried, but the boy's dumb. Can't help himself, I guess."
R "I thought he learned the offense quite well this past year."
ADT "Yeah, long as he don't have to do too much."
R "And I suppose Van Pelt is the answer if Cutler washes out."
ADT "He ain't gonna wash out. Kid's headed to the Hall of Fame. But I hope they trade Van Pelt."
R "Why?"
ADT "Pretty boy. And my wife keeps looking at his ass."
R "On the subject of football. If Cutler costs you games due to lack of experience, will you support the coach?"
ADT "Hell yeah. I mean, ya gotta make sacrifices."
R "You're very inconsistent."
ADT "So? I'm a fan. I ain't gotta make sense, be consistent, or be fair. Any more stupid questions?"
R "None."
ADT "Good. Now get the **** oughta my face and let me drink wine and eat cheese in peace!" :clown:

[Northman]

I dont care which one of those guys gets it done, but i think you're all with me when is say " GIT-R-DONE! ".

[BroncoSoja]

Plummer had a great season last year and in my opinion was the only one playing in the Playoff game against the Steelers.

Obediah

LOL Say WHAT!!???!!!!

I think you need to rewatch the Steelers game expecially the end of the 2nd Quater and the 3rd quarter (you know the quarter where Denvers defense finally came alive but the quarterback threw the game away)...

[tnedator]

Ha!

thats pretty much exactly it. Im stoked for Plummer this year, i think he steps up and has another great season. But the future looks so bright, its freaking awesome and hard to not think about!

I agree. I think Plummer and the offense is going to have a good year, but it is hard not to get excited about seeing Cutler starting down the road.

[tnedator]

LOL Say WHAT!!???!!!!

I think you need to rewatch the Steelers game expecially the end of the 2nd Quater and the 3rd quarter (you know the quarter where Denvers defense finally came alive but the quarterback threw the game away)...

I think you need to rewatch the Steelers game, you know where the offensive line couldn't plack a pass-rushing grandma, and where our defensive backs couldn't make the INTs that would have kept the game close.

[orange 4 life]

YOU WANT A QUARTERBACK CONTROVERSY!


sadly, i think youre right when it comes to alot of people.

as for me, i want whats best for the team, and that most certainly
is NOT a quarterback controversy.

[orange 4 life]

You all better hope orange 4 life dont see this thread Ha!

classic.

ive come to accept the lunacy.
its everywhere, its unavoidable, and i knew it would happen, which
is part of why i melted down on draft day.

[MrPeepers]

not to get too far off topic...

what free agent / restricted free agent, etc do we face potentially losing next year? If this is Jakes last year as a starter who may we see Cutler without?

[orange 4 life]

U'hhh, Plummer turned the ball over three times against the Steelers. Two horrendous passes for interceptions and one untimely fumble. On both interceptions he had wide open receivers. Yet he was the only one playing?

Safe to say if Plummer didn't turn the ball over three times, we probably would be World Champions right now.

wow, you obviously didnt watch the game.
that or you dont know what youre watching.

ONE terrible pass (actually "ill advised" would be a better description) to a double teamed rod smith, one pass to a SPOT where his receiver didnt go (the pass was intended for alexander who didnt make his break and got subsequently RIPPED on the sidelines which the camers never showed), and a fumble that is pretty hard to fault him for.

the guy was running for his life all day, and he didnt throw a pick until we were already over 2 scores in the hole.
do you think its coincidence that he has a 2:1 td to turnover ratio as a bronco but has 3 turnovers in that game?
it isnt.

champ (for a pick 6) AND foxworth dropped int's on the first drive, and we dropped 4 int's in all.
we also gave roethlesburger (who was SICKENINGLY bad in the superbowl) a half hour to throw every down.
that or we rushed 8 and cowher and co. were ready for it.

plummer did NOT have a good game, but he showed up to play his guts out, and thats more than i can say for alot of others on the team who thought their ticket to the bowl was already stamped.

saying "if plummer didnt turn it over 3 times we'd probably be champs" is beyond idiotic, and even plummer haters (a growing group) can probably see that.

[azbroncfan]

Ha! I just saw him on another thread you all are about to get a talking to...and rightfully so...

Get'em O4L
Is this the thread you are talking about??? It should be in the ring of fame. I can't stop laughing everytime I read it. Ha!

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41478

[tnedator]

I posted video of the four tournovers at Broncomania, because of all the discussion about them. The first fumble would have been a fumble with virtually any QB under center. It was a play action, and when he turned back from the play action, he turned into a pass rusher that beat Foster, He then quickly stepped up and to the left to avoid the pass rusher and got blind sided by a second rusher that made Alexander look like a high school pass blocker.

The second fumble, again he was running for his life. The two INT's? Hard to say. As mentioned above, Alexander didn't even try and make a play on the first INT. The second one, Jake tried to force in when he should have thrown to Alender on the little swing route.

Here is the videos for anyone interested in seeing them.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=67483

[Pendejo]

Cutler was impressive against detroit, but there's no sense in rushing him.

When the real bullets start flying...you want to go to war with the veteran.

[Garcia Bronco]

I honestky think Plummer is going to end up being the back up...and why not.

[Pontius Pirate]

PRE-SEASON DOESN'T MEAN S____H____I____T!!!!!

Otherwise, Tony Romo, Cleo Lemon, and Doug Johnson would be getting "start him now" hype as well. Don't know who they are? Well if you believe the Cutler hype, you should know they are ahead of Cutler in the pre-season QB ratings.

Leave this alone. Let Plummer be the man. Give it a rest. Cutler will get his day.

[Bronco Billy]

Screw Jake and this guy cutler you guys are talking about. BVP will take the starting job and stun EVERYONE I SAY!!!!!

No acharle lenia al fuego - English: Don't add fuel to the fire! :welcome:

[Spider]

Plummer panic ? guys got icewater in his viens , unless he is behind the wheel , but that is for another thread .........I like Jake , dont make excuses for him , but he has improved every year since comming here , I dont see this year being any different ........ What I will say though is I wont go into panic mode if Jake gets injured .........

[loborugger]

scene: season opener at the New Mile High. News media in the stands, getting opinions from average "joes."

ADF (average dumb fan)
R (reporter)



ADF "Jake's da man."
R "What happens if he throws a pick?"
ADF "Then Jay's the man."
R "Wait. I thought you guys liked Jake here in Denver!"
ADT "We do. Until he messes up. And we know he's gonna mess up."
R "That hardly seems fair. His numbers were great this past season."
ADT "So what? Last year's story is this year's history. Don't care."
R "Are all fans so fickle? What about the outcry to get him here?"
ADT "Yeah, well...he cracks when the stakes are high, know what I mean?"
R "But what about the rest of the team? Didn't they lay down against the Steelers?"
ADT "Maybe. But ain't great quarterbacks supposed to lift everybody, and all that stuff they say?"
R "It's been said. But everyone has to do their job-"
ADT "You sound like those cop outs at the papers. First you build him up, now you tear him down."
R "We only reflect what the people want to read."
ADT "Yeah right. You tell us what to think."
R "Just doing my job. Kind of drunk, aren't you?"
ADT "You know it. I'm a wine eater and cheese sipper."
R "That doesn't sound right..."
ADT "Dig it."
R "Cutler's a rookie. What if he struggles?"
ADT "So what if he throws picks? You see the cannon on that kid?"
R "But you said if Jake throws a pick, he's out-"
ADT "Well, Shanahan can't ever run his whole offense with 16 here. He tried, but the boy's dumb. Can't help himself, I guess."
R "I thought he learned the offense quite well this past year."
ADT "Yeah, long as he don't have to do too much."
R "And I suppose Van Pelt is the answer if Cutler washes out."
ADT "He ain't gonna wash out. Kid's headed to the Hall of Fame. But I hope they trade Van Pelt."
R "Why?"
ADT "Pretty boy. And my wife keeps looking at his ass."
R "On the subject of football. If Cutler costs you games due to lack of experience, will you support the coach?"
ADT "Hell yeah. I mean, ya gotta make sacrifices."
R "You're very inconsistent."
ADT "So? I'm a fan. I ain't gotta make sense, be consistent, or be fair. Any more stupid questions?"
R "None."
ADT "Good. Now get the **** oughta my face and let me drink wine and eat cheese in peace!" :clown:

Best post I have read on here in a looonggg time. REP!

[~Crash~]

this tread SUCKS I WANT TO WIN THE SUPER BOWL you guys are NUTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[~Crash~]

SENd this tread to the **** can were it belongs .

[freak6]

The two INT's? Hard to say. As mentioned above, Alexander didn't even try and make a play on the first INT. The second one, Jake tried to force in when he should have thrown to Alender on the little swing route.

Here is the videos for anyone interested in seeing them.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=67483

Man, thanks for posting those tnedator. Tough to watch. Jake completely crapped the bed in that game. All he had to do was be patient. It's this year or never for him.

WAR BRONCOS

[Kid A]

Jake certainly didn't play very well against Pitt, but I still maintain he was no worse than the rest of the team. My non-bronco friend who was watching with me said he though Plummer played better than most the team, he just made a couple costly mistakes, and I tend to agree. Obviously the media was just waiting for Jake to throw a couple picks so that they could say he had reverted to previous form. I'm glad to see Cutler is showing so much promise, but I wouldn't start a any rookie over most veteran quarterbacks, let alone Jake. I mean, it doesn't even look like the kid can grow facial hair yet, which is key to any successful quarterback these days ;) .

[Taco John]

http://tahoecelebritygolf.com/Players/images/shanahan-mike-3.jpg

"Enough is enough! I have had it with this mother****in' Snake on this mother****in' team!"



Ha!

That's hilarious...

[Archie]

wow, you obviously didnt watch the game.
that or you dont know what youre watching.

ONE terrible pass (actually "ill advised" would be a better description) to a double teamed rod smith, one pass to a SPOT where his receiver didnt go (the pass was intended for alexander who didnt make his break and got subsequently RIPPED on the sidelines which the camers never showed), and a fumble that is pretty hard to fault him for.

the guy was running for his life all day, and he didnt throw a pick until we were already over 2 scores in the hole.
do you think its coincidence that he has a 2:1 td to turnover ratio as a bronco but has 3 turnovers in that game?
it isnt.

champ (for a pick 6) AND foxworth dropped int's on the first drive, and we dropped 4 int's in all.
we also gave roethlesburger (who was SICKENINGLY bad in the superbowl) a half hour to throw every down.
that or we rushed 8 and cowher and co. were ready for it.

plummer did NOT have a good game, but he showed up to play his guts out, and thats more than i can say for alot of others on the team who thought their ticket to the bowl was already stamped.

saying "if plummer didnt turn it over 3 times we'd probably be champs" is beyond idiotic, and even plummer haters (a growing group) can probably see that.

We didn't play well all around the ball and Pittsburgh played VERY well.. The most frustrating thing was watching the first half of the SB and thinking where the hell was this team two weeks ago. If Pittsburgh looked anything like they did in the SB in Denver, we are the champs. But... that is why they play the games. Jax had an equally amazing game in 1996 to keep us from that SB.

[coachmastermind]

Just a story from today... I was in Best Buy buying some movies and in the next isle two guys were talking about their fantasy teams, and one guy was talking about drafting Cutler as his #2 QB, because he was sure he'd be the starter in Denver by week 3.

I always see things through orange colored glasses... so it was interesting to just be a fly on the wall and listen to some non-Bronco fans talk about Culter.

Personally, I'm not on the start Culter bandwagon after just 1 preseason game, but whatever happens is going to happen, whether it's this season because of poor play by Jake, our seasons in trouble, or injury or if it's next year... I'm excited to see how it'll all play out. I echo the the thoughts by others that it's an exciting time to be a Broncos fan.

I'm really excited to see Jay tomorrow night and listen to the Invesco crowd's reaction when he enters the game; and to see if Shanny lets him air it out a little more at home.

[SureShot]

That 1996 team was as good as any of them.

[tnedator]

Man, thanks for posting those tnedator. Tough to watch. Jake completely crapped the bed in that game. All he had to do was be patient. It's this year or never for him.

WAR BRONCOS

He had ZERO chance on those fumbles. The INT's, well they were bad.

However, let's not overlook the fact he was runnig for his life, because the coaches were calling play action, and the rushers were not buying the run and blowing by our actors/pass blockers.

On top of that, if Champ had caught the pick six INT, rather than letting it bounce off his face and be caught for a first down, or if Ferguson had caught the ball in the endzone that went between his hands, or if Foxworth had stopped a couple of those 6 out of 7 3rd down conversions in the first half, those couple INTs would not really matter. Would they?

[tnedator]

Ok, I had posted this over at Mania a while back. Here is a play by play breakdown of Jake's AFCC game. I still had it on Tivo and stepped through, play by play and made comments, with a summary at the end as far as bad passes, drops, etc.

I don't usually spam this forum by copying and pasting things I posted at Mania, but it seems appropriate, since people seem to think Jake played worse than he did.

Jake Plummer Play by Play: AFCCG

First Half:

Pass 1:
5+ step drop/play action/screen to Putz - shoulder height; 19 yards

Run 1:
Play action bootleg - scramble back to line of scrimmage; 1 yard gain

Pass 2:
5 step drop; pass to Rod Smith, high and behind off hands; incomplete

Pass 3:
5 step drop; pass to Rod Smith near left numbers; hit in stomach; 13 yards

Fumble 1:
play action - 5+ step drop; both outsider rushers beat pass protection; Jake hit/fumble

Run 2:
5+ step drop; Tatum withs on block of blitzing DB; Plummer scrambles for 1 yard gain.

Pass 4:
5 step drop; blitzer comes in clean; screen pass hits Tatum in chest; 8 yard gain, just

short of first down

Pass 5:
5 step drop; deflected by linebacker; Intended for Lelie over the middle; incomplete

Pass 6:
Playaction/bootleg; pass to anderson; slightly behind - right hip; complete 13 yards

Pass 7:
Play action/5+ step drop; pass in Putz hands - slightly led on run; caught at right numbers;

18 yards

Cummalative:
5/7 71 yards - 1 fumble

Pass 8:
Play action/5 step drop; blind side hit as he releases ball; high to Lelie in endzone;

incomplete; Lepsis tried to sell play action and Porter flew by him untouched.

Pass 9:
Play action/5 step drop; Plummer hit by rushing porter as soon as he turns back towards the

line of scrimmage from the play action; Porter ran right by Anderson, who didn't block him,

because it appeared to be a screen; Plummer jumped and threw as Porter was hitting him in

chest; ball was short of reaching Anderson, who turned towards Jake when the ball was almost

to him; incomplete

Note: Broncos ran on third and 10 and then kicked field goal.

Note: Pittsburght scores on first three possessions (one following fumble). 17-3 score. Pitt

scored on drives of 62, 39 and 80 yards; 5/6 on 3rd down conversion in first three series

Pass 10:
5+ step drop; pass intended for Alexander at right sideline; intercepted by DB with inside

coverage

Note: Steelers score on 43 yard drive following interception

Note: For the half, the Steelers scored on all four of their first half possessions

Note: half ends 24-3 pitt.

Note: First half summary:
Plummer 6/11 80 yards 1 fumble - 1 int
Broncos 6 first downs
3rd down conversions: 2-5

Roethlisberger 13/17 180 2 TD's
Pitt 14 first downs
3rd down conversions: 6-7

Second Half:
Pass 11:
Backed up on 3 yard line following punt:
5 step drop; swing pass to Anderson to left; hits him in stride in hands - right front

corner of endzone; Anderson get's to 2, 1 yard loss

Pass 12:
Play action/5 step drop in endzone; pressure from both rushing ends; throw high and through

Rod Smith's hands at left hash marks; incomplete

Pass 13:
5 step drop; screen to anderson - hit in hands; down at 1, 2 yard loss

Pass 14:
5+ step drop; pass intended for Alexander on 12 yard curl; pass into stomach; dropped by

alexander; no defender within 4 yards; incomplete

Pass 15:
4 step drop; hit Smith in hands on slant at left numbers; 9 yards

Pass 16:
Play action/bootleg right; throw made from half between right numbers and sideline at

Broncos 25, back across body to Smith at Pitt 40 at hash marks, over Rod's right shoulder -

slightly high; 30 yard gain.

Pass 17:
Play action/ 4 step drop; hit Putz in hands on slant at right numbers; 9 yards

Pass 18:
5+ step drop; throw over middle to endzone, slightly high; 30 yard TD

Pass 19:
5 step drop; pass intended for smith at left hash mark intercepted by linebacker

Pass 20:
5+ step drop; avoids blitzing db and scrambles out of pocket; avoids orginald DB that got up

and chased him outside hash marks, shovels to anderson, while being hit by linebacker; 2

yard gain - Nullified by inneligible player downfield - replay down.

Pass 21:
Playaction/5 step drop; throw to Sapp near left sideline; possibly slightly behind/near

right hip/hard to say from angle, other than it hit both hands - Drop; incomplete

Pass 22:
play action/5 step drop; rusher beat Lepsis and gets to drop point before Jake, Jake steps

up and avoids second rusher that is unblocked, runs up just short of line of scrimmage

outside right hash mark, throws back across to Bell betweek left hash and numbers - Ball

hits Bell in hands; 8 yard gain

Pass 23:
4 step drop; pass to Lelie on right sideline; over Lelies left shoulder - slightly high; 38

yards

Pass 24:
Play action/5+ step drop; hit by Porter who beat Lepsis and beat Jake to his drop back

point; avoided sack and scrambled outside hashmarks to left; while back peddling to avoid

another rusher ; intended for Adams at left numbers on 35 yard throw; pass hit Adams in

chest but dropped on pass interference call; incomplete / but PI

Run:
Play action/bootleg right; nobody open; run for 6 yard gain

Pass 25:
play aciton/bootleg right; two rushers pressuring Jake on bootleg; pass intended for Putz at

right numbers; pass high off fingertips; incomplete

Pass 26:
5+ step drop; pass into Smith's stomach at right hash marks; 7 yards

Sack:
5 step dorp; steps up to avoid one rusher; sacked by three steelers

Fumble:
Going for it on 4th down;
5 step drop; foster completely beat by rusher who envelopes Jake, but he escapes and steps

forward; ball stripped by second rusher.

scramble:
5 step drop; nobody open; scrambles forward; 8 yards

Pass 27:
5 step drop; pressured by 3 man rush; pass to Tatum near right sideline; pass wide;

incomplete

Pass 28:
5 step drop; swing pass to Bell at right numbers; 1 yard gain

Pass 29:
5+ step drop; steps up to avoid pressure; hits Putz in hands at left numbers; 11 yards

Pass 30:
5+ step drop; steps up to avoid pressure - scrambles to left numbers; hits Puts in stomach -

drop; incomplete

Pass 31:
3 step drop; intended for Smith on slant at left hash marks = ball shoulder height - a

little outside - bounces off hands; incomplete

Pass 32:
4 step drop; swing pass to Tatum outside right numbers; hits him shoulder high; 2 yard gain

Scramble:
4 step drop; scramble forward for 4 yard gain

Second Half stats:
Plummer 12/19 143 yards 1 int - 1 td - 1 fumble
Broncos 10 first downs
3rd downs 3-7

Roethlisberger 8/12 95 yards
6 first downs
3rd downs 4-9

Summary:

18 on target throws - 2 drops
8 a little high or behind (catchable off hands) - 4 drops
3 high or wide - uncatchable
1 tip by defender - no chance for receiver to make play
2 Ints - Bad throws, no chance for receivers to make plays

Ok, here is a % breakdown.

56.3% - hit the receiver in stride, in the body, etc.
25% - was slightly high, or slightly wide, such as off a hip, catchable, but not perfect
9.4% - uncatchable - but not intercepted or tipped
3.1% - tipped
6.3% - intercepted

I have nothing to reference these percentages against to know if they are good or bad, or somewhere in between.

[TheChamp247]

I still think plummer is our man for this year. If he has a great year, and Culter has really grasped the system then we MIGHT have some trade bait

[Bronco Billy]

Nice breakdown. The thing I'll always remember from that game is Jake running for his life the entire second half. He did have the picks, but he also showed me his will to win.

[tnedator]

Nice breakdown. The thing I'll always remember from that game is Jake running for his life the entire second half. He did have the picks, but he also showed me his will to win.

And going and gasping oxygen on the sidelines in between series, which might have been partially due to running for his life, and partially because he was sick all week prior to the game.

I'll take my chance with Jake at QB this year.

[SureShot]

Screw that game. I'm over it. I bet we beat them in their house this year.

[tnedator]

Screw that game. I'm over it. I bet we beat them in their house this year.

Just had to move my dang vacation becuase of work, and I am now flying on Oct 29th (Indy) and flying home on Nov. 5th (Pitt). Couldn't pick two worse days to travel. :(

[Kaylore]

I posted video of the four tournovers at Broncomania, because of all the discussion about them. The first fumble would have been a fumble with virtually any QB under center. It was a play action, and when he turned back from the play action, he turned into a pass rusher that beat Foster, He then quickly stepped up and to the left to avoid the pass rusher and got blind sided by a second rusher that made Alexander look like a high school pass blocker.

The second fumble, again he was running for his life. The two INT's? Hard to say. As mentioned above, Alexander didn't even try and make a play on the first INT. The second one, Jake tried to force in when he should have thrown to Alender on the little swing route.

Here is the videos for anyone interested in seeing them.

http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=67483

Thanks for these. I haven't watched the game since we lost. I can't stand to and so never made it out of the first quarter. I agree with your diagnosis; The two ints were clearly the fault of Jake and the two fumbles were the fault of the O-line and spefically the fault of George Foster. Foster is a bust and we need to help that right side or it's going to suck.

[dbfan4life]

scene: season opener at the New Mile High. News media in the stands, getting opinions from average "joes."

ADF (average dumb fan)
R (reporter)



ADF "Jake's da man."
R "What happens if he throws a pick?"
ADF "Then Jay's the man."
R "Wait. I thought you guys liked Jake here in Denver!"
ADT "We do. Until he messes up. And we know he's gonna mess up."
R "That hardly seems fair. His numbers were great this past season."
ADT "So what? Last year's story is this year's history. Don't care."
R "Are all fans so fickle? What about the outcry to get him here?"
ADT "Yeah, well...he cracks when the stakes are high, know what I mean?"
R "But what about the rest of the team? Didn't they lay down against the Steelers?"
ADT "Maybe. But ain't great quarterbacks supposed to lift everybody, and all that stuff they say?"
R "It's been said. But everyone has to do their job-"
ADT "You sound like those cop outs at the papers. First you build him up, now you tear him down."
R "We only reflect what the people want to read."
ADT "Yeah right. You tell us what to think."
R "Just doing my job. Kind of drunk, aren't you?"
ADT "You know it. I'm a wine eater and cheese sipper."
R "That doesn't sound right..."
ADT "Dig it."
R "Cutler's a rookie. What if he struggles?"
ADT "So what if he throws picks? You see the cannon on that kid?"
R "But you said if Jake throws a pick, he's out-"
ADT "Well, Shanahan can't ever run his whole offense with 16 here. He tried, but the boy's dumb. Can't help himself, I guess."
R "I thought he learned the offense quite well this past year."
ADT "Yeah, long as he don't have to do too much."
R "And I suppose Van Pelt is the answer if Cutler washes out."
ADT "He ain't gonna wash out. Kid's headed to the Hall of Fame. But I hope they trade Van Pelt."
R "Why?"
ADT "Pretty boy. And my wife keeps looking at his ass."
R "On the subject of football. If Cutler costs you games due to lack of experience, will you support the coach?"
ADT "Hell yeah. I mean, ya gotta make sacrifices."
R "You're very inconsistent."
ADT "So? I'm a fan. I ain't gotta make sense, be consistent, or be fair. Any more stupid questions?"
R "None."
ADT "Good. Now get the **** oughta my face and let me drink wine and eat cheese in peace!" :clown:

You should title this "An interview with TJ".
That's why this so hilaious to him.

[Taco John]

Foster definitely got beat on the first fumble, but his guy didn't touch Jake. It was Alexander's guy who got him. Foster's guy didn't even get a hand on Jake, as he made an adjustment toward the end to push the defender past Jake.

The second fumble can definitely be attributed to Foster.

Either way, it's dramatic to say that Foster is a bust.

[Taco John]

You should title this "An interview with TJ".
That's why this so hilaious to him.



No way... I know that BVP is nothing more than camp fodder.

[watermock]

I knew I shouldn't of watched those clips. Curiosity got the cat. I was so excited I couldn't sleep and when we basically laid an egg I actually had to lay down. I was mentally exausted. I woke up when I heard the crowd come awake only to see the INT down 27-17. Why did we wait for this game to cough up a furball? Pitt was a better team than their record would indicate. I think Ben was out for a few weeks. He didn't win that game.

The fumbles were not really Jakes fault, the INT's were. He should of been more patient and got it to within a field goal or touchdown. It's in the history books but it still hurts. Hell, the Jacksonville loss still stings a decade later. It's not life and death, but it still feels like it for a strong fan.

I'm optimistic Denver has a strong future, and we got our entertainment dollar with a very good campaign. It's still difficult to know that it all fell into our lap so the Hunt Trophy game would be at home.

We go back to war.

[Odysseus]

That is because no one else was playing. he was getting no time in the pocket and having to scramble like a mad man. Im not saying he wasnt without fault, but that game i didnt see the Broncos offense play, i saw some guys with their jerseys on, but didnt see a damn one of them actually put heart into the game, except plummer, Just an opinion though. You have to remember that last season we had the least turnovers in the entire NFL, that is a HUGE stat. Plummer had something to do with that. Again i will say that Plummer was not without fault in that game.

Obediah

Agreed. If you look at the last few games prior to the playoffs IMHO Jake was showing his limitations as he appeared to peak prior to the playoffs. Broncos tried to push the Broncos into a position more of a pocket passer but he could not do it. I don't fault Plummer as the coaches probably realized too late in the season that they were in trouble. Steelers totally disrespected the boot. Plummer was running harder then Trent Green in the preseason.

The Broncos are assuming the same DL as last year is on the field this year is going to be good enough but half of those guys are dinged up. I'm really not thrilled with our defense so if Plummer isn't perfect that cloud is going to still be on him as I don't see our defense being all the good ALL SEASON. In the end they will be alright but I want to see this defense shut somebody down.

[whatsgolden]

We owe it to Rod Smith to start Jake. We were one game away last year, and would have destroyed the Seahawks in XL. In a perfect world, we win XLI, and trade Jake for a 1st and 2nd to a team that needs a QB. Just my opinion.

[orange 4 life]

Is this the thread you are talking about??? It should be in the ring of fame. I can't stop laughing everytime I read it. Ha!

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41478

dont miss an opportunity to bring it up again!!

clearly that ISNT the thread he was talking about, but dont let that stop you.
just keep on being the great fan you are. :thumbsup:

[orange 4 life]

Is this the thread you are talking about??? It should be in the ring of fame. I can't stop laughing everytime I read it. Ha!

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41478

...and i fail to see the humor in it, but im sure a prick like you has a much different way of thinking.

i just read it for the first time since posting it, and while the "im selling half my tickets....having my back surgery" was reactionary and over the top, thats what happens when you have the kind of emotional attachment that i have.
we've had people post that they were done being fans as a reaction to something that happened in a loss.
people that post wanting someone fired because of ONE bad play or one bad call.
its emotion, and sometimes people cant control it.
i guess the good fans like you laugh at those people?

i remember when alec said he was done with the broncos (or something to that effect) after a loss and some other prick (or was that you too?) felt the need to keep bringing it up.
why?
who knows. maybe because his own life was so pathetic that thats how he gets his rocks off.
alec was angry to the point of losing control of his emotions, and he of course didnt mean what said.

i meant ALOT of what i said, but of course have reevaluated since and for reasons already mentioned have come to accept and almost embrace the move.
of course i still dont think it was the right move for us to win this season, but it gives us the possibility of having the qb position secure for alot more than the 5 or so years (at most) plummer has left in him, so there is the potential for a big upside.

at the end of the day, it doesnt really matter.
you can tell us all what a great fan you are, but "prick" is all thats coming through.

[orange 4 life]

I posted video of the four tournovers at Broncomania, because of all the discussion about them. The first fumble would have been a fumble with virtually any QB under center. It was a play action, and when he turned back from the play action, he turned into a pass rusher that beat Foster, He then quickly stepped up and to the left to avoid the pass rusher and got blind sided by a second rusher that made Alexander look like a high school pass blocker.

The second fumble, again he was running for his life. The two INT's? Hard to say. As mentioned above, Alexander didn't even try and make a play on the first INT. The second one, Jake tried to force in when he should have thrown to Alender on the little swing route.

Here is the videos for anyone interested in seeing them.



http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=67483 (http://forums.denverbroncos.com/showthread.php?t=67483)

great analysis, and kudos to you for watching them again and attempting to make an educated assessment.
thats really rare these days, and its refreshing to see.

i went back through and watched the int's from '04 some time ago as well, which is another reason i have a higher opinion of plummer than many around here.
as for the championship game, the guy was just running for his life.
our blocking (which had been very good in the regular season) just broke down and plummer was getting hit from all sides.
he certainly has some fault considering its his job to hold onto the ball regardless, but its tough to get on him too much when you watch the plays.

with regards to the int's, the one was ALL on plummer as he threw to a double covered rod and was off the mark on top of making a bad decision.
the ball to alexander was almost ALL on alexander as he failed to make any kind of break on the ball.
the casual fan just see's the int, but when you go a little deeper you see that plummer was throwing to a spot, and his receiver simply wasnt there.
shanahan has no qualms about getting on his qb, yet he didnt after that play.
why?
because he knew alexander didnt run his route, and that why alexander got torn apart when he came off the field (which the cameras didnt show).

if you really want to analyze and critique, it sure helps to have all the info, but most people arent willing to go beyond whats on the surface.
sometimes it feels like stats are all that matters anymore, which is a result of the fantasy craze.

anyway, nice job going back and looking at the film.

[Circle Orange]

Over under on Jake/Jay controversy by opener: 1/1
Likelyhood of picks by week 3...1/1
Fans screaming for Jake's skin, week 3 35%
Fans screaming for Jay to play, week 3 44%
Fans wanting BVP to get a shot, week 5 21%
Fans nervously hoping Jake works out this season 55%
Fans pretending Jake has a good year but secretly wanting Jay 45%
Fans with Jay fetish 65%
Fans with Jake fetish 35%
Coaches telling the straight up truth 13%
Coaches giving spin wrapped in tall tales 87%

All unscientific, mind you. These numbers can be toggled up or down to taste.

[Circle Orange]

Thanks JCMElway, been a great day since i found you guys. Had a warm welcome already and even though my posts can sometimes be a little radical and out there, everyone seems to be real cool here.

Obediah


BTW hiya, Obie. Forgot to say something before. You bring your stuff strong, not just throwing spaghetti at the wall. But don't worry about radical, we down with it around here...:afro: :yep:

[Taco John]

I think what people might not be registering, but should come to grips with is that Jay just might be outplaying Jake in training camp.

[tnedator]

I think what people might not be registering, but should come to grips with is that Jay just might be outplaying Jake in training camp.

Based on everything I have read and the video clips I have seen, I don't think Jay is outplaying Jake at the moment. I think he has better physical skills and a bigger upsdie, but he doesn't appear to be outplaying him yet.

Give it time, it will happen.

[Pontius Pirate]

I think what people might not be registering, but should come to grips with is that Jay just might be outplaying Jake in training camp.

Come to grips with?!? I think you're overestimating the significance of training camp.

[Taco John]

Based on everything I have read and the video clips I have seen, I don't think Jay is outplaying Jake at the moment. I think he has better physical skills and a bigger upsdie, but he doesn't appear to be outplaying him yet.

Give it time, it will happen.


I guess that depends on who you talk to...

[Taco John]

Come to grips with?!? I think you're overestimating the significance of training camp.



Hilarious!


You mean to tell me that I'm overestimating the period of time in which players win or lose jobs based on their performance? How could I possibly do that?

Many veterans under Shanahan have lost their jobs because Shanahan saw a rookie behind them playing to the level with higher upside potential than the current encumbant.

I'm not saying that Jake is going to lose his job... yet. I *am* saying that it's a real possibility if Jay keeps showing his stuff at the level he showed it last week. We'll see how he performs tonight. If I was Jake, I wouldn't get comfortable (trust me, he's not).

[Ballhawk]

Hilarious!


You mean to tell me that I'm overestimating the period of time in which players win or lose jobs based on their performance? How could I possibly do that?

Many veterans under Shanahan have lost their jobs because Shanahan saw a rookie behind them playing to the level with higher upside potential than the current encumbant.

I'm not saying that Jake is going to lose his job... yet. I *am* saying that it's a real possibility if Jay keeps showing his stuff at the level he showed it last week. We'll see how he performs tonight. If I was Jake, I wouldn't get comfortable (trust me, he's not).

IMO Shanny would love to start Cutler, but I think he knows that would split the locker room. Vets like to play with Vets. If Jake goes down I think his job will be gone, but as long as the QB position is not losing us games Jake has this year to get it done.

[Bronco Billy]

It's in the history books but it still hurts. Hell, the Jacksonville loss still stings a decade later. It's not life and death, but it still feels like it for a strong fan.

We go back to war.

So true. that Jacksonville game still makes me angry. I can't help but feel that it'll never be as good as the first SB win. Denver huge 'dogs, Elway diving - giving up his body- for a first down, coming down to the wire, etc. That one was for John, but it was also for all of us. I know that the greatest single game I've ever experienced - the climax of the organization - is already behind us, still I am A Bronco fan as are all of you (except Bob).

[Atlas]

All right, enough is enough. Broncophiles everywhere, it's time to fess up. In the deepest, darkest corners of your heart...

YOU WANT A QUARTERBACK CONTROVERSY!

Yes, everyone's drooling over Jay already, and mad comparisons are being made to a-certain-guy-we-all-know-from-before. Players and coaches are coming apart, saying they see reminders. Of course the obligitory "let's not get carried away" statement is tossed in, right before everyone gets carried away. Now can you imagine what Jake is thinking at home about the Cutler madness?

*grumbles. Damn kid ain't done s----, and everyone's talkin' like he's goin' to the HOF*

And can you imagine what Jay is thinking as he drives in his modest car to training camp?

*All I gotta do is wait. Plummer's lame, and his contract is almost up. Everyone knows I got the right stuff!*

Meanwhile, everyone smiles and kisses nice. Ol' Mikey poo gives polite press conferences...

"We're pleased with Jay's progression. But everyone please remember he's just a rookie!"

Then goes to his office and tapdances...

*Damn! When can I put this kid in, and what excuse can I use??*

Players calmly tell the media Jay somewhat reminds them of John, but only somewhat. And that the media is now getting carried away, too (then promptly go do cartwheels in the showers.)

Pat Bowlen dusts off his orange suit, grinning...

And the spin continues. :approve: :notworthy


As of today Cutler can't hold Jake's jock. Preseason football is a joke, Cutler would get eaten up in regular season. Jay will have to wait until next year before he matters for the Broncos.

[freak6]

Good T.J., fan the flames, way to go lol. I love my avatar btw.

I feel like I am standing on top of a volcanoe about to erupt.

If Jay goes off tonite, it just might. I hope he comes out, shows he's a rookie as he has in practice, and chills out the fans with all this talk about him pushing Jake.

Then again, the 11 best players should play...

PS. Dont forget your name.

Orange for <font color=orange> <font size=20> LIFE!!!

[Taco John]

Heh... I'm not *trying* to fan any flames. I'm just trying to get people to wake up to the fact that we've got a live one here... And I'm not talking about Jay. I'm talking about Shanahan.

In the Bubby/Griese days, the prevailing thought was "if the Veteran is playing like a rookie, why not start the rookie," and Bubby found himself on the bench. This is a different situation, and the prevailing thought very well may be "if the rookie is playing as well/better than the veteran, why not start the rookie."

Last week, Jay looked more dangerous than Jake ever has as a Bronco. If he continues to do so, I don't think Shanahan is going to waste any more time.

[freak6]

Last week, Jay looked more dangerous than Jake ever has as a Bronco. If he continues to do so, I don't think Shanahan is going to waste any more time.

Give me a break TJ. That was against a garbage team that just got tore up by the Browns, with a vanilla defense out there full of scrubs.

I think Shanny would lose the team if he made that move prior to a few regular season games. If anything Shanny should have learned that starting Griese that year was a mistake, and he should not repeat it.

Then again, Shanny does need a seperate car to carry his ego, and he just might be crazy enough to think HE can start a rookie and get back to the AFC Championship Game, at home.

[Taco John]

I think Shanny would lose the team if he made that move prior to a few regular season games. If anything Shanny should have learned that starting Griese that year was a mistake, and he should not repeat it.



How so? Not that it matters. I doubt Shanahan even thinks about Griese when evaluating this situation.

[Ballhawk]

Give me a break TJ. That was against a garbage team that just got tore up by the Browns, with a vanilla defense out there full of scrubs.

I think Shanny would lose the team if he made that move prior to a few regular season games. If anything Shanny should have learned that starting Griese that year was a mistake, and he should not repeat it.

Then again, Shanny does need a seperate car to carry his ego, and he just might be crazy enough to think HE can start a rookie and get back to the AFC Championship Game, at home.
Sick of this Vanilla D crap. You would think every 2nd stringer in the league had a 114 QB rating. Cutler too was playing a Vanilla O with Kircus (a FA castoff) and Schef (another rookie) as his main targets. 16/22! Hell Nate flat out dropped one, one was a spike to stop the clock, and one incompletion was a perfect strike to Marshall. By my count that is three missed passes!!!
Vanilla D my ass, these are NFL players, most of which will make the team.

Clev tore it up? JC had about as many yards in half the time as Clev put up the entire game! Clev QBs couldnt do anything but dump the ball off for 4 yard gains.

It is fine to try and curb the enthusiasm, but dont do it by taking away one of the best rookie 1st game performances of all time.

[Crushaholic]

In the Bubby/Griese days, the prevailing thought was "if the Veteran is playing like a rookie, why not start the rookie," and Bubby found himself on the bench. This is a different situation, and the prevailing thought very well may be "if the rookie is playing as well/better than the veteran, why not start the rookie."

I hope you aren't comparing Plummer to Brister. Brister is merely a footnote in Broncos history. Plummer took the Broncos to the AFC Championship in his second FULL season as a Bronco. The first season doesn't count because he was injured for most of the season...

[Taco John]

I hope you aren't comparing Plummer to Brister. Brister is merely a footnote in Broncos history. Plummer took the Broncos to the AFC Championship in his second FULL season as a Bronco. The first season doesn't count because he was injured for most of the season...



Clearly I was not comparing Plummer to Brister. That was half the point of what you quoted me saying. In that instance, it was the starter playing down to the level of the rookie. In this instance, it's the rookie playing up to the level of the starter...

I've been saying all offseason that Plummer gives us a better shot to win, because I didn't expect that Cutler would look as dangerous as he did against Detroit. I'm not yet ready to say "Start Culter Now," but if he continues to show that he can play to the level of Plummer (and even beyond), then I don't see why we wouldn't want to start the better quarterback with the better upside.

[SureShot]

Sick of here this Vanilla D crap. You would think every 2nd stringer in the league had a 114 QB rating. Cutler too was playing a Vanilla O with Kircus (a FA castoff) and Schef (another rookie) as his main targets. 16/22! Hell Nate flat out dropped one, one was a spike to stop the clock, and one incompletion was a perfect strike to Marshall. By my count that is three missed passes!!!
Vanilla D my ass, these are NFL players, most of which will make the team.

Clev tore it up? JC had about as many yards in half the time as Clev put up the entire game! Clev QBs couldnt do anything but dump the ball off for 4 yard gains.

It is fine to try and curb the enthusiasm, but dont do it by taking away one of the best rookie 1st game performances of all time.


Good point. I would also like to point out that the Lions had their 1st team D in there well into the 2nd quarter. The Lions wanted that game bad, and Jay lit them up. Hell the Lions put their starters back in on that final drive.

[orange 4 life]

As of today Cutler can't hold Jake's jock. Preseason football is a joke, Cutler would get eaten up in regular season. Jay will have to wait until next year before he matters for the Broncos.

its just completely jaw dropping that so many people just cant see this simple fact.
its nothing against the kid, who's done everything asked of him and more, but implying that he might be a better option right now is just ludicrous.
its so far out of reality its hard to comprehend.

[tnedator]

Clearly I was not comparing Plummer to Brister. That was half the point of what you quoted me saying. In that instance, it was the starter playing down to the level of the rookie. In this instance, it's the rookie playing up to the level of the starter...

Brister wasn't the starter. He was the journeyman backup to Elway that was expected to take over after Elway's retirement. Elway was the starter and retired. Griese was the second year player that was brought in to replace Elway upon his retirement.

Did it surprise a lot of people? Yes. However, there is a big difference from that situation to this one.

[Pontius Pirate]

Hilarious!


You mean to tell me that I'm overestimating the period of time in which players win or lose jobs based on their performance? How could I possibly do that?


I think Allen Iverson said it best when he said: "Practice?! We talkin 'bout practice!"

Jake is fine. 6/8 for 97 yds & a TD sounds good in my book. But please, go on about how he better watch out or whatever ridiculous suggestions you were making.

[DLifer]

We watched Brister and Griese fall short of our hopes and expecations after January '99. Shanahan brought Jake in with a vision of how to shape the future of this team. Sure Jake does some crazy and chilling stuff but he has heart and he truly wants to win more than anything else. Shanahan is the glue that holds this team together and the man knows what he is doing. His inital plan has not yet played itself out. We've been to the playoffs every year since Jake came in. He's matured and I for one am very excited about his 4th year. Jay Cutler has a tremendous arm and sense about himself. He is the future, no doubt, but Jake, with the guys that have learned how to play with him, are the present. GO BRONCOS !!!

[Taco John]

I think Allen Iverson said it best when he said: "Practice?! We talkin 'bout practice!"

Jake is fine. 6/8 for 97 yds & a TD sounds good in my book. But please, go on about how he better watch out or whatever ridiculous suggestions you were making.


Basketball practice and NFL Training camp are two very different things. You'd have to understand Broncos history to know that training camp isn't something to just blow off.

You're right. Jake is fine. He had a great night tonight. So did Cutler. It's good to see Jake lifting his game. That's how competitors are supposed to react to competition.

[Hulamau]

its just completely jaw dropping that so many people just cant see this simple fact.
its nothing against the kid, who's done everything asked of him and more, but implying that he might be a better option right now is just ludicrous.
its so far out of reality its hard to comprehend.


Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't seen anyone suggest JAke should be benched this year in favor of Jay! What is amazing though is that Jay is so good so early and he's playing behind the #2 offense NOT the first team O-line with top WR/RBs!

The Titans played their 1st string D throughout the entire first half against both Plummer and our first string and Cutler and our 2nd string. Titans were trying to redeem themselves. And even in the third quarter, while Jay was still in there, the Titans ran a mixture of first and second string defensive players in the 3rd quarter.

So Cutler and his group had a tougher challenge not to mention that in the third quarter we called off the dogs entirely! On his last two drives, Cutler could EASILY have added another 90 to 100 yards passing and at least another TD the way they were going, but Shanny put an end to it early to let Fisher save some more face.

ESPN just posted a comparison of QB ratings so far this preseason between Young at 64, Leinert at 45 and Cutler with a QB rating of 111.4 so far in preseason!

JAke was great tonight as well, and we really couldnt ask much more for either of these guys tonight. Isn't it great to have two guys who can really play?!

The new help is awesome too in Mike Bell, Nash, even Cobbs looked good and Scheffler and NAte Jackson, Kircus and Clark on returns!

We are basically loaded for Bear.

[Sassy]

ESPN just posted a comparison of QB ratings so far this preseason between Young at 64, Leinert at 45 and Cutler with a QB rating of 111.4 so far in preseason!

JAke was great tonight as well, and we really couldnt ask much more for either of these guys tonight. Isn't it great to have two guys who can really play?!

Last week they said Jake held the highest Bronco QB rating in history...

[Hulamau]

Heres a nice couple shots of our two QBs in action! Aren't we lucky! First Cutler tossing that laser 6 yrd TD to Scheller right at the pylon

[Hulamau]

And JAke completing a nice one to NAte Jackson for 7!

[freak6]

I'd LOVE to see Jay vs a first team defense for an entire half.

[Taco John]

I'd LOVE to see Jay vs a first team defense for an entire half.


I bet we see it before the end of the preseason...

[freak6]

I bet we see it before the end of the preseason...

In the last game most likely, vs the Cards in Az. We still have yet to see the full strength of his arm on a play action pass. All I see is this guy sitting in the pocket acurately throwing darts to Sheffler and Kircus, or wisely checking down when needed.

[theAPAOps5]

Cut faced the Titans 1st string defence up until halftime, or darn near close to it.

[Hulamau]

I bet we see it before the end of the preseason...


Denny Green will for sure play his first team the first quarter, if not the first half, despartely trying to win their home PS games in their new stadium so Cutler will likely start against them and play the whole first half, if not three quarters.

[Sassy]

Cut faced the Titans 1st string defence up until halftime, or darn near close to it.
Jake played pretty much the first half.

[Hulamau]

JAke played 3 series total and scored on all 3, two in the first and one series in the 2nd. Cutler played the last two of the second quarter. After driving the first one 67 yrds for a TD he got the ball back with only 1:14 minutes to run a hurry-up drill from our 20 yrd line driving down to the Titans 34 with time running out and called time out for Elam who missed the 50 yrd FG.

Cutler then came back to begin the 3rd quarter and drove the length of the field for another score, but only passed two or three times on the drive as they were mostly interested in running out the clock with the RBs. After going up 35-3 on that TD on his first drive of the seocnd half, Shanny called off the dogs entirely and Cutler didnt throw another pass as he led the team down to the 22 or so from our 20 just handing off the ball until we used up all 4 downs and turned it over to Vince again.

Cutler could have lit the place up if the game had been closer those last two drives.

Both Jake and Cutler were pretty much unstoppable by the Titans first and second string Defense.

[Atlas]

I was very impressed with the Broncos running game.

Is anyone concerned about their running game now??

Despite his lackluster camp Cobbs is running very hard. I have to think that Dayne won't even make the team this year. Denver is just too deep.

[NFLBRONCO]

I think a Lelie/RB package trade will happen b4 sept 10th.

[Circle Orange]

ESPN just posted a comparison of QB ratings so far this preseason between Young at 64, Leinert at 45 and Cutler with a QB rating of 111.4 so far in preseason!

JAke was great tonight as well, and we really couldnt ask much more for either of these guys tonight. Isn't it great to have two guys who can really play?!

Last week they said Jake held the highest Bronco QB rating in history...


It's clear, then. He's better than #7 ever was (see section on fans not having to make sense)

[baja]

Trade Dayne

[Atlas]

I think a Lelie/RB package trade will happen b4 sept 10th.

I wouldn't be suprised to see Lelie and Cobbs packaged. Cobbs really helped his cause tonight.

[NFLBRONCO]

I was thinking Lelie Cobbs or Nash in a package. I was hoping it would be Dayne but, I think teams would rather have other guys.

[baja]

I Don't Want To Trade Nash

[NFLBRONCO]

I Don't Want To Trade Nash

Me either but, I figured Nash or Cobbs would be in more demand then Dayne. I wonder how many backs we keep.

[Atlas]

Me either but, I figured Nash or Cobbs would be in more demand then Dayne. I wonder how many backs we keep.


I would rather trade Nash than Cobbs. Cobbs runs much harder and stronger. Nash is nifter and quicker but he has had weight problems and he doesn't run as hard. I do think that all these backs can play in the NFL. It'll be a shame if Denver has to cut one of them.

[baja]

Me either but, I figured Nash or Cobbs would be in more demand then Dayne. I wonder how many backs we keep.

Trade DAYNE - USE THE DALLAS GAME AS AN ADD CAMPAIN

[NFLBRONCO]

Dayne should be odd man out

[NFLBRONCO]

How many rb spots are open?

[baja]

They gotta keep 4 bell squared nash and cobbs

[SouthStndJunkie]

Cutler has been having an exceptional camp by all accounts. ESPN recently reported that after a Champ Bailey interception in practice, the Denver coaches were actually relieved that something did not go exactly as planned for Cutler. They are eager for the youngster to experience some adversity in camp.

Something to keep in mind......he played at Vanderbilt with no oline and few weapons. He has a good line and some actual weapons for the first time. He probably thinks it is easy so far because he has a supporting cast. Vanderbilt may have been the best training he could get.

[Circle Orange]

All quiet on the Jay front. This week.

[loborugger]

Now that he has had a good game, I was thinking about starting a "Jake for the HOF" thread just to be a smarta$$, but in the end I dont wanna hang around and endlessly debate Jake's skills at the QB position...

PS - I dont fancy Jake's latest hairdo as much as the previous ones. Please work on it.

[Circle Orange]

Well, I admit the circle hairstyle was ratty and ugly, but it was supposed to be.

So, on to the next doo...

[Steve Sewell]

To be honest, and I love Jay Cutler, but I've kind of forgotten him so far this season because the Broncos are 2-1, Jake has a great game vs. NE, and the team has 2 weeks to prepare for Baltimore at home. All signs point to 3-1 heading into a home game vs. Oakland and then on the road vs. the hapless Browns. I'm liking the team as it is right now.