AFC West coaches - no wonder Mike wants to coach 10 more years

[ZONA]

I was just thinking this to myself as I watch Herm show us yet again what a sorry coach he really is.

No frickin wonder Shanahan wants to coach another 10 years. We all though it was because of him drafting Cutler. No man. It's because all the tuff kids in the block are moving away to other cities and some retarded pansies are moving in.

Think about it. Just a few years ago your list was this.

Shanahan (2 superbowl as HC, 1 superbowl OC, 3 losses in superbowl as AC)
Vermeil (1 superbowl as HC, I think he lost one with the Eagles, not sure)
Gruden (1 superbowl as HC)
Schottenheimer (a plethera of playoff appearences)

It wasn't an easy thing to win the division back then.

Now Shanny has seen the likes of Shell and Edwards join our little fraternity and he's licking his chops. Things are looking a whole lot better in Bronco land now.

Now your list looks like this:

Shanny (Top Dog in this division and everybody knows it)
Marty (a good coach but his W-L record against the top dog says it all)
Hermy (aint done $hit)
Shell (aint done $hit)

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.

How you like THEM apples?

[Bronco Billy]

I believe you're right that Vermeil made the SB with the Eagles.

[theAPAOps5]

Last five years hmmmm.....

Yeah how many Super Bowl wins does Hermy have?

[Garcia Bronco]

He did and they lost to the Raiders.

[Garcia Bronco]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.

How you like THEM apples?

Shut the Herm up. :giggle:

[0SE7EN]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.

How you like THEM apples?


Herm also has a losing record as a head coach, regular season and post. Shanahan has a winning record in both and 2 SB's. Let's face it, Herman Edwards is the best coach in the NFL monday-saturday. Shanahan is the best in the west on Sunday.

[watermock]

Losing Al Saunders was just as big as losing Vermiel. Roaf goes without saying. He's HOF IMO. Still pissed we didn't sign him. It would of been like Zimmerman without losing a first rounder. That still has me scratching my head when he actually WANTED to come to Denver because he had his kids here. It just didn't make sense.

K.C. traded two offensive coaches in for two competing defensive coaches(both had been recently fired, one by the Chiefs themselves) and an assistant coach in Solari. They should of never fired Shotty. Vermiel was a good coach I don't care what anyone says. He saw the window closing and cut line along with Saunders.

[ZONA]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.

How you like THEM apples?

OK, I'll give you that. But "making" the playoffs in the AFC East was a given if you could win 9 games. In the West, it was much much harder. Just look below for proof. He's making the playoffs at 9-7 and 10-6? Please!

Um, Mike has been in 6 superbowls as a coach.

3 as QB coach with Denver. If Shanny and Elway could only run the plays they wanted to for most of those, who knows what would have happened. Dan Reeves sorta spoiled any chance with that ULTRA conservative style.

1 with SF as OC and it was really the offense and Shanny's play calling that won SF the superbowl, not anything Sieffert did.

2 more as HC in Denver.

Hermy

2005 New York Jets 4 12 0 .250
2004 New York Jets 10 6 0 .625
2003 New York Jets 6 10 0 .375
2002 New York Jets 9 7 0 .563
2001 New York Jets 10 6 0 .625

CAREER 5 years: 39wins and 41losses

Not exactly stellar now is it. Yeah - that would get me totally pumped. Hey guys, we're getting Herm Edwards as our new coach. Yeah, hell yeah, that guy rocks, he's one of the best coaches in the NFL.

Man, if all you can muster is a few 10-6 seasons in the AFC East, better stay there. Come out West baby and it's a different show. If Gruden was still with Raiders, Hermy would probably have never chose to coach the Cheifs. Having to play against Shanny, Gruden and Marty 6 games every year? 10 wins might not even get you a wild card spot.


Try this on for size big boy:

Broncos Head Coach Mike Shanahan enters the 2006 season ranked 19th in NFL history in career victories with 130 (122 reg. / 8 post.)... Shanahan needs five victories to pass Weeb Ewbank to move into 18th place and seven wins to pass Hank Stram for 17th place in career wins... The Broncos enter 2006 leading the NFL in points (4,440), total yards (64,235) and rushing yards (25,022) since Shanahan’s first year with the team in 1995. A few more good years should put Mike in the top 10...........and he want's to coach another 10 years. Safe to say he's not only one of the elite coaches in the game today, but when he's done, he'll be a Hall Of Fame coach and probably top 3 in winning % of all time.

Who's Herm Edwards?

[boltaneer]

One thing for sure, Herm sure does have his work cut out for him this year.

Playoffs?! The way it's looking now, I think beating the Raiders for the cellar spot would be the first goal they should strive for.

Then making .500 for the year...

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.

How you like THEM apples?

Congrats, I hope that makes you sleep better at night while you clutch your 17-sided dice. The only problem is that there isn't one owner in the NFL who wouldn't take Shanahan over Edwards if given the choice. Keep living with single stats that you can hold onto since it was already pointed out in this thread that Herm does not have a winning record in the regular or post-season.

[Jetmeck]

You guys really going for ole BOB's nads tonight. He has been slapped around tonight mercilessly after his team
showed their true colors, then you attack his coach.
Blood is in the water............

[plummershelper]

I'd love to talk more about the Chief's chances of a playoff run, but I have to go take a wicked Herm. I'm thinking it'll need a courtesy flush half way through. Wish me luck.

[ludo21]

Ill wait to talk much smack till the season actually starts.

....but.. Chiefs looked bad as did Fade, but nonetheless, reg. season is different, so who knows...

[Steve Sewell]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.

How you like THEM apples?

Bob, during that same time span Shanahan has a 50-30 record while your beloved Sperm has a 39-41 record. That's a 62% winning percentage for Shanny while Sperm sports a solid 48%.

Oh, and Shanahan also has 8 more playoff victories and 2 more Super Bowl rings than the Chiefs have had in the last 13 years.

[chrisdel]

OK, I'll give you that. But "making" the playoffs in the AFC East was a given if you could win 9 games. In the West, it was much much harder. Just look below for proof. He's making the playoffs at 9-7 and 10-6? Please!

Um, Mike has been in 6 superbowls as a coach.

3 as QB coach with Denver. If Shanny and Elway could only run the plays they wanted to for most of those, who knows what would have happened. Dan Reeves sorta spoiled any chance with that ULTRA conservative style.

1 with SF as OC and it was really the offense and Shanny's play calling that won SF the superbowl, not anything Sieffert did.

2 more as HC in Denver.

Hermy

2005 New York Jets 4 12 0 .250
2004 New York Jets 10 6 0 .625
2003 New York Jets 6 10 0 .375
2002 New York Jets 9 7 0 .563
2001 New York Jets 10 6 0 .625

CAREER 5 years: 39wins and 41losses

Not exactly stellar now is it. Yeah - that would get me totally pumped. Hey guys, we're getting Herm Edwards as our new coach. Yeah, hell yeah, that guy rocks, he's one of the best coaches in the NFL.

Man, if all you can muster is a few 10-6 seasons in the AFC East, better stay there. Come out West baby and it's a different show. If Gruden was still with Raiders, Hermy would probably have never chose to coach the Cheifs. Having to play against Shanny, Gruden and Marty 6 games every year? 10 wins might not even get you a wild card spot.


Try this on for size big boy:

Broncos Head Coach Mike Shanahan enters the 2006 season ranked 19th in NFL history in career victories with 130 (122 reg. / 8 post.)... Shanahan needs five victories to pass Weeb Ewbank to move into 18th place and seven wins to pass Hank Stram for 17th place in career wins... The Broncos enter 2006 leading the NFL in points (4,440), total yards (64,235) and rushing yards (25,022) since Shanahan’s first year with the team in 1995. A few more good years should put Mike in the top 10...........and he want's to coach another 10 years. Safe to say he's not only one of the elite coaches in the game today, but when he's done, he'll be a Hall Of Fame coach and probably top 3 in winning % of all time.

Who's Herm Edwards?

Not making any excuses for Edwards, nor am I going to annoint him as a great coach. But during his tenure with the Jets, he went up against the three-time Super Bowl champs (that's the Pats, in case you forgot). Not exactly an easy division. Yet he was able to pull off a few decent seasons with an average team and win a few playoff games. And you folks are saying he's terrible off of two PRE-SEASON games. Sure, they were ugly games. But the season hasn't started yet folks. Don't write him off yet.

Another thing, Shanahan is a HOF coach, no doubt. And, unfortunately, he will continue to be successful as long as he coaches. But he couldn't have done anything to stop 35 points by the Redskins in the second quarter or any of the other ass whompings in those first three Super Bowls with Elway. The Broncos just weren't a complete team then, and Shanahan is not God. To say anything less is a disservice to Reeves, who is a borderline HOF coach as well, IMO.

[0SE7EN]

Chief's only hope for a 10 win season is if Roaf pulls a Gary Zimmerman. 10 wins would be pretty good for them in that case. Old Herman...nice guy, players love him..bad game coach, and makes poor decisions.

I can't remember who the Jets were playing, but I seem to remember a game in which they still had a chance to tie the game. No timeouts left, Edwards calls three running plays in a row late in the game, goes conservative and I remember everyone on the sports talk radio blasting him, wondering if he was trying to lose that game on purpose. Sorry Bob..your little stat "over the last five years" doesn't hold any water. Edwards isn't a good coach. Players love him, but it won't take long for the ownership to can him.

[Taco John]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.

How you like THEM apples?


Hey Bob, you like pairs? Because Herm only had a pair of double-digit win seasons in those five years. Same as Vermiel. How you like them pairs?

[0SE7EN]

[quote=chrisdel]...And you folks are saying he's terrible off of two PRE-SEASON games. Sure, they were ugly games. But the season hasn't started yet folks. Don't write him off yet...QUOTE]

No, we're saying he's terrible based on his track record. He's only had 3 seasons with a winning record...1 of those was just one game above .500. He's like Wade Phillips. He could make a good d-coordinator, but not good as a head coach

[bombay]

I believe you're right that Vermeil made the SB with the Eagles.

He won a super bowl with the Rams.

[Bronco Billy]

He won a super bowl with the Rams.
I am aware of that, but he also was the head coach for the Eagles when they played in Super Bowl XV.

[watermock]

When we laid eggs in ironically, our first game against Miami and the last against Pitt, we didn't make pathetic excuses Boob. What is pathetic is 270 total yards in two games.

[Popps]

Hey Bob, you like pairs? Because Herm only had a pair of double-digit win seasons in those five years. Same as Vermiel. How you like them pairs?

I can't figure out what Herm Edwards has ever done, outside of giving a "witty" interview to gain the reputation he has. (The rep of a "winner.")

I honestly think the guy has no idea what he's doing out there. I don't think that look of confusion is just a look. Look at his clock management, for instance. I really think the guy is behind the curve for NFL coaches.

He might be a good motivator, but I'm not remotely convinced that he's a true head coach, and couldn't be happier that he landed in K.C..

[Paladin]

I don't think Shanhan made that remark because of the coaches in the Division at all. I think he was reflecting on his good fortune to have drafted a QB with a 10 arm and a brain in his head. Building the team around him is potentially a great joy, and will pay dividends for some time.

Secondly, I think having Sundquist there along with other coaches (i.e., Turner) makes the whole coaching process a bit easier on the ole ticker. Also, he has the great support of Bowlen.

Thirdly, the new approach to drafting (remember the plan?) and getting FAs helps to keep everyone on the same page. There appears to be a very high level of consensus in the Brain Trust as to the direction they want to go. Getting the draft class they have now, the trades, and the FA signings are just real satisfying payoff for the new approach.

The future looks incredible, actually, and that's why I think he wants to be a part of that. Kicking the other coaches' arses is not the point. It is the chance to have some great success. Just like San Francisco or NE did.

[ward63]

Bob, can you finally admit that you cheer for a terrible team? I did back when a guy named Bubby was running our O.

[DenverBrit]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.

How you like THEM apples?


Yeah, but now he has to coach the Chiefs.

AINT THAT A PEACH!! ;D

[Steve Sewell]

Congrats, I hope that makes you sleep better at night while you clutch your 17-sided dice.

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

[ClevelandBronco]

Shut the Herm up. :giggle:

That opens a whole new set of doors here:

• Herm off.
• Eat Herm and die.
• Son of a Herm.
• Okay, who Hermed?

The list is endless. You're a cunning linguist, Garcia.

[ClevelandBronco]

I'd love to talk more about the Chief's chances of a playoff run, but I have to go take a wicked Herm. I'm thinking it'll need a courtesy flush half way through. Wish me luck.

plummershelper is on board, Garcia. I think you may have started something here that has real staying power.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Seriously...as much as you guys crow about playoff wins here, it should mean something. I'm just using the same standard that you guys use for your idiot quarterback.

[ZONA]

Seriously...as much as you guys crow about playoff wins here, it should mean something. I'm just using the same standard that you guys use for your idiot quarterback.

At least Plummer is a better QB then Hermy is a coach.

What would be a real peach is if the Jets made the playoffs and Hermy's Cheifs don't. I'm sure that scenario would have the Chiefs owner feeling good about his decision to hire Hermy. At least the Chiefs can look on the bright side, Charlie Weis should be willing to take the job in 2 more years.

[-Slap-]

He (Vermiel) did and they lost to the Raiders.

Not only that, they lost to a very average Raiders team. Any Raider fan will tell you that was by far the weakest of their championship teams. The difference was Al Davis told the Raiders to go enjoy New Orleans and be ready to play on Sunday. Vermiel had his team on strict curfew and sequestered in their hotel rooms. They mimiced their coaches' body language by coming out for the game uptight and nervous.

A blitz, a screen pass to Kenny King, 80 yards later and the game is over in the first quarter.

[Clockwork Orange]

I love how those so accustomed to mediocrity (i.e. Chefs fans) have to latch on to what people did elsewhere to feel better about their situation. I seem to remember that Dick ForMeals wasn't that far removed from lifting the Lombardi Trophy when he took on the Chefs job. 0 playoff wins later, the rallying cry is now to point to Herm's playoff record in New York. Wash, rinse, repeat.

[Cito Pelon]

Son of a Herm if that wasn't a good stretch run.

[TheDave]

Congrats, I hope that makes you sleep better at night while you clutch your 17-sided dice.

We should of locked this thread right there...ROFL!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I love how those so accustomed to mediocrity (i.e. Chefs fans) have to latch on to what people did elsewhere to feel better about their situation. I seem to remember that Dick ForMeals wasn't that far removed from lifting the Lombardi Trophy when he took on the Chefs job. 0 playoff wins later, the rallying cry is now to point to Herm's playoff record in New York. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Dick got lucky. Herm went to the playoff three times in five years. That isn't luck.

[24champ]

Dick got lucky. Herm went to the playoff three times in five years. That isn't luck.
Herm botched so many games, is that luck too?

[azbroncfan]

Hey, Zona, you like apples?

Herm has more playoff wins than your beloved Shanahan in the last five years.
How you like THEM apples?
Typical Booob stat.

[Florida_Bronco]

Typical Booob stat.

How many Super Bowls has Herm won as a HC again?

...goosegg

[SoCalBronco]

Dick got lucky. Herm went to the playoff three times in five years. That isn't luck.

The Chiefs will make the playoffs this year. After all, you averaged a high score of 18500 and defeated the Demon Warlock in D and D an average of 3.62 times every 5 attempts (72.4%).

[Clockwork Orange]

Dick got lucky. Herm went to the playoff three times in five years. That isn't luck.

Spin it any way you like. You brought in Dick ForMeals, a coach with a track record of recent playoff success, and he couldn't squeeze so much as a single playoff win out of your squad. Now you do the same with Herm and expect him to be the miracle worker. Hilarious.

[Man-Goblin]

The thing that scares me is that there are rumblings that Jeff Fisher could be going into his last year at Tennessee. Not saying he should be fired, but they may be stupid and think it's time for him to move on.

If Marty bombs out again in San Diego, don't you think they would make a HARD push for Fisher? That would suck.

[ZONA]

I think Fisher and Cowher could be available next year, and Weiss the year after that.

[azbroncfan]

Dick got lucky. Herm went to the playoff three times in five years. That isn't luck.

What lucky??? Your're a tool box full of excuses, Dick V took a rams team to the championship with a 2nd string QB and a team that wasn't expected to win 8 games. I wonder if they would of won if trINT was the QB that year??? I doubt it.

[12th man]

Dick got lucky. Herm went to the playoff three times in five years. That isn't luck.
Ha! LOL ROFL! Holy sh1t! you're such a retard! Dick took two teams to a super bowl, winning one of them. That's luck? what ever you think bob. I bet when you guys signed dick you were thinking super bowl. now you're stoked about having a coach that has made it to the playoffs. haha. god, it must suck being a chief fan!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I don't care what Dick did 30 years ago. If his Super Bowl with the Rams was a legit indicator of his abilities as a coach, he would have done something more in Kansas City. The guy couldn't draft for ****, and he turned our defense into a bunch of pussies.

Also, Herm Edwards is one of the more successful coaches in Jets history. That organization is horrible. He only coached five years, and he's tied with two other coaches for most playoff wins as Jets coach.

He's going to do great things in Kansas City. He made some mistakes, but alot of great coaches make mistakes and learn from them.

[Kaylore]

The Chiefs will make the playoffs this year. After all, you averaged a high score of 18500 and defeated the Demon Warlock in D and D an average of 3.62 times every 5 attempts (72.4%).
I don't know. I have it on good authority that he was using a Game Genie.

[azbroncfan]

I don't care what Dick did 30 years ago. If his Super Bowl with the Rams was a legit indicator of his abilities as a coach, he would have done something more in Kansas City. The guy couldn't draft for ****, and he turned our defense into a bunch of pussies.

Also, Herm Edwards is one of the more successful coaches in Jets history. That organization is horrible. He only coached five years, and he's tied with two other coaches for most playoff wins as Jets coach.

He's going to do great things in Kansas City. He made some mistakes, but alot of great coaches make mistakes and learn from them.

Did they win without him??? TrINT wouldn't of been the MVP that year. He drafted good in STL Holt, Pace, Wistrom. Spin anyway you want Boob, Sperm isn't as good as coach as DV.

[Kaylore]

I don't care what Dick did 30 years ago. If his Super Bowl with the Rams was a legit indicator of his abilities as a coach, he would have done something more in Kansas City. The guy couldn't draft for ****, and he turned our defense into a bunch of pussies.

Also, Herm Edwards is one of the more successful coaches in Jets history. That organization is horrible. He only coached five years, and he's tied with two other coaches for most playoff wins as Jets coach.

He's going to do great things in Kansas City. He made some mistakes, but alot of great coaches make mistakes and learn from them.
Hilarious!

[Clockwork Orange]

I don't care what Dick did 30 years ago. If his Super Bowl with the Rams was a legit indicator of his abilities as a coach, he would have done something more in Kansas City. The guy couldn't draft for ****, and he turned our defense into a bunch of pussies.

Also, Herm Edwards is one of the more successful coaches in Jets history. That organization is horrible. He only coached five years, and he's tied with two other coaches for most playoff wins as Jets coach.

He's going to do great things in Kansas City. He made some mistakes, but alot of great coaches make mistakes and learn from them.

You're such a homer it's laughable. I get a kick out of watching you make excuses and throw everyone who leaves under the bus as if they were the reason why the Chefs are the model of mediocrity. Dick ForMeals and Greg Robinson took the Chefs to their best season since '97, yet both are now reviled by you as if they were deliberately sabotaging the Chefs.

I don't give a rip what Herm did in New York. He's in KC now, Carl Peterson is still running things, thus nothing will change. They'll be just good enough to keep the great unwashed filling Narrowhead stadium, yet will be a non-factor when the postseason rolls around. I know, you'll scream about how things will be different now (just as we heard when Gunther was recycled as your defensive coordinator), but we'll be hearing you scald Herm on his way out the door in a few years too.

[24champ]

This just on ESPNEWS...


"HERM EDWARDS PRESS CONFERENCE"


Herm: I think we played OK tonight. We were able to get 11 guys out there for each play, and that's the path to winning ballgames. I'm not going to talk about the score, you know we just need to stop making errors. The errors cost us the game, not a lack of toughness or planning. Toughness and planning are old ideas, and I want to bring a new attitude to this team.

Q: What about your defense? There was no pass rush and they looked winded.

Herm: I'm a former NFL cornerback, so I know about the game, and I know about defense. I think it was the offense's fault the defense didn't look good. You know, the job of the offense isn't to score points, it's to waste time on the field so the defense can stay well-rested. You can't expect a defense to play well if it's on the field more than five minutes a quarter. If the offense had been on the field longer, we would've done better.

Q: Going back to the defense, there still seems to be a lack of talent at defensive tackle.

Herm: Like I said before, I'm a former cornerback. First, we brought in two tackles. Now I know one's been hurt since last October and one weighs less than our defensive ends, but I know these guys. I trust the judgement of every one on my staff and the front office to give me the right players, after all, judgement is far more accurate than common sense. Second, should the defense look bad, I don't want the blame to fall on the secondary, so I'll let other areas take the blame.

Q: On your Tampon 2 defense, what is with the soft coverage schemes?

Herm: By keeping the play in front of us, we're holding our opponents to five to six yards per play. You need 10 yards for a first down, so this way we keep opponents from making a first down.

Q: If you allow 5 yards every play, and have 3 downs to get 10 yards, isn't that allowing 15 yards?

Herm: (blank stare, then...) I'm a football coach, not a mathematician. Besides, there's four downs, shows what you know about football. Did you play in the NFL? No. Next question.

Q: Your offense has looked pretty weak in two games, why is that?

Herm: I told you, scoring points is the secondary objective of the defense, weren't you listening earlier? This team needs to work more on taking time off the clock, not scoring points. As for the clock, we only get 55 seconds between plays, so that's not a lot of time to figure out what play sounds good and then get it on the field.

Q: What about lack of blocking?

Herm: We're not worried about that. Right now is a good chance to risk our 36-year-old veteran's health to find out who can play offensive line. When I put you in there, you're a starter, nothing else matters, not even talent.

Q: What can you tell us about Willie Roaf?

Herm: We'll keep an open spot for him should he come back. As for his chances of coming back, I don't know. How should I know? I can't even do a good job of coaching the guys I do have on the team, how can I be expected to worry about someone no longer on the team?

Q: What is your plan to fix this team?

Herm: You play the game to win. Look at our shorter practices. They keep people fresh for the regular season. Now we'll have no idea what to do when the regular season hits, but we'll be fresh.

Q: Do you think a lack of toughness is this team's problem?

Herm: No. I used to play in the NFL, do you think I'd create a weak team? So we're out of shape and get manhandled by every team we play now, that's no indication of how we'll do in the regular season. Well we're heading back to River Falls, got to go.

Reporter: Training camp is closed, you've gone back to Kansas City for practice.

Herm: Really? Maybe we should get to work on this team.





This is a parody courtesy of Wild Bill's. LOL

http://wildbill.invisionzone.com/index.php?showtopic=10351

[Kaylore]

:spit: That's hilarious. So many good pieces.

Toughness and planning are old ideas, and I want to bring a new attitude to this team.

You know, the job of the offense isn't to score points, it's to waste time on the field so the defense can stay well-rested.

Q: What about lack of blocking?

Herm: We're not worried about that. Right now is a good chance to risk our 36-year-old veteran's health to find out who can play offensive line. When I put you in there, you're a starter, nothing else matters, not even talent.


Q: Do you think a lack of toughness is this team's problem?

Herm: No. I used to play in the NFL, do you think I'd create a weak team?
ROFL!

I've been saying their team isn't phyiscally or mentally tough enough for some time and all not even Bob can spin that cold hard fact.

[Tom A Hawk]

I have to admit that MS is one of the top. If there was any coach to choose from for the Chiefs, Mike would be my top choice when you consider his entire history as a coach. Another coach I would prefer is Cowher.
I have a feeling that the Club Herm is about to ruin yet another ball club.
I am still waiting for the day that Peterson hangs it up (or gets fired). That will be a sad day for the rest of the AFCW.