“We will kill every American for this!” Dr. Mansour shouted

[Bronco_Beerslug]

So this is how we win over the people to democracy.

---------------------------------------------------------
Returning Home to Ruins: Shock Is Mixed With Outrage
By ROBERT F. WORTH
Published: August 15, 2006

BEIRUT, Lebanon, Aug. 14 — Four hours after the cease-fire with Israel started Monday morning, Dr. Abdel Munaim Mansour stood staring in disbelief at the mountainous hash of rubble that was once the apartment building where his family lived.

“We will kill every American for this!” Dr. Mansour shouted, his voice cracking with rage. “Every Shiite Muslim will kill Americans! We will grind them under our shoes!”

Dr. Mansour and his wife, Seneen, an elegantly dressed couple who work at a nearby hospital, stumbled on through their old neighborhood in a state of shock, seeming almost not to recognize the charred and shredded landscape around them. They had returned, after weeks of exile in the relative safety of the mountains, to the capital’s southern Shiite district, which has been largely deserted during a month of heavy Israeli bombardment.

Around the couple, thousands of others streamed back on Monday into the ruined streets, where smoke and the smell of rotting flesh rose from the rubble. Some cursed America and Israel and swore revenge; others simply wept. Most said that before they returned, they had no idea of the scale of the destruction in this area, which includes many Hezbollah offices.


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2006/08/14/world/15mideast.xlarge1.jpg
Lynsey Addario for The New York Times
Lebanese returned to Beirut’s southern suburbs on Monday. Hezbollah’s leader appeared on television to declare “a strategic and historic victory.”

“Why did they bomb here?” asked a 60-year-old woman in a black-and-white head scarf who gave her name only as Umm Abdullah. “So that people would turn against Nasrallah and the resistance?” referring to Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbollah leader. “But that will never happen. Whatever happens, we could never hate the resistance. They’re part of our blood, they’re our children.”

She gazed around sadly at the ruins. “If I only had a thousand livres for bread,” she said, about 75 cents, “I would give it to the resistance.”

A tall man in a blue shirt stepped eagerly past her, seemingly glimpsing the vista of ruins for the first time. “All of us are Hassan Nasrallah!” he bellowed. “Every man, every woman, every stone is Hassan Nasrallah!”

The tall man, as it happens, was Hassan Nasrallah. Not the Hezbollah leader, he quickly explained; he simply had the same name. He works at a bank nearby and is a distant relative of the revered cleric, he said.

After he had finished yelling, Mr. Nasrallah became polite and quiet. “We are not against the American people, we are against American foreign policy,” he said, switching from Arabic to French to talk to a reporter.

Not far away, Nurredin Asya, a soft-voiced 52-year-old shopkeeper in a black gown and wire-frame glasses, was gazing up sadly at her own apartment, on the top floor of a six-story building. It had been smashed from above, as if a giant thumb had crushed the top layer of a birthday cake. On the bottom floor of the same building is her minimarket — named Hasanain, after one of her four children. Its entryway was filled with rubble and broken glass piled high, its metal door smashed. She had another store a few blocks away. It is now a large crater.

“Everything is gone,” she said.

It was not the first time for Ms. Asya. She is Lebanese but grew up in Liberia, she said, and had three food markets there until 1993, when war engulfed that country, too, and she was forced to flee. She lost $350,000, she said.

“I am thinking to take my visa and go,” she said. Her husband is in Virginia, where he was visiting one of their daughters when the bombing began, and has not been able to return. But Ms. Asya said she would rather go to Britain.

As she spoke, a young girl dressed in black walked past, her cheeks wet with tears. She was holding a yellow Hezbollah flag. Elsewhere, people had planted the flag on the mounds of ruin alongside the Lebanese flag. Several Hezbollah security guards stood on street corners carrying AK-47 rifles; it was the first time they had moved openly in the area for weeks.

Ms. Asya said quietly that Hezbollah would never give up its weapons.

“You know why Hezbollah succeeds?” she said. “Because you can’t see them. The army you can see, so Israel knows where they are and can get them.”

“Who is Hezbollah?” Ms. Asya went on, gesturing at the residents and aid workers in the streets all around her. “They are the sons and daughters and parents of Hezbollah.”

A few blocks away, earthmovers and bulldozers were digging away at the smoking ruins of a vast open area where eight apartment buildings had been destroyed Sunday afternoon in an Israeli airstrike. The construction crews had begun working within an hour after the cease-fire took effect Monday. The same blast had sheared off the walls of neighboring buildings; one woman pointed anxiously to her fourth-floor apartment, where a red outfit belonging to her baby girl could be seen hanging from the exposed bedroom.

At the edge of the open lot, a heavyset man in a white T-shirt caught sight of a skinny boy and called to him, spreading his arms. The boy ran to him, and soon they were locked in an embrace, tears streaming down their cheeks.

Later, the man, who gave his name as Abu Ahmed Bazi, said the boy, Ahmed, 9, had lost his parents and several siblings in the bombing on Sunday. The boy survived only because he happened to cross the street to buy an ice cream in Mr. Bazi’s candy shop just beforehand, he said.

“I held the boy and told him to pray to Imam Ali to save us,” said Mr. Bazi, his face red and sweaty. “When the bombing stopped I couldn’t believe it — he wasn’t even scratched.”

http://tinyurl.com/mh6vn

[El Guapo]

yes, its all our faults.

[footstepsfrom#27]

How many one-sided threads claiming that Israel's deliberately bombing civilians do we need???

[BroncoBuff]

Regardless of your politics, that's some sad stuff ...

[RunByDesign]

How many one-sided threads claiming that Israel's deliberately bombing civilians do we need???

Counter that with pictures of dead Hezbollah Fighters and Destroyed Hezbollah Infrastructure.

Or are they one in the same? That is - civilians and Hezbollah?

I mean, because all I have seen is destroyed public buildings, housing and dead civilians. If you're so interested in discounting these claims, provide us with some material that Israels' attack was intentively effective.

I'm not in the habit of researching this kind of material, so I am in interested. However, all I see is one particular kind of evidence or argument presented and the other party cry and whine that it is one-sided, without doing any of the legwork (bonafide research, not :parrot: ing party lines or catch phrases) to discount it.

[defenseman]

How many one-sided threads claiming that Israel's deliberately bombing civilians do we need???

"tactic de jour" of the left leaning media. Get used to it. And, their hope is eventually, people believe it. God forbid the opposing view is aired. Blasphemy I say....the opposing view can't be published, it will slow the "brainwashing" of the masses...dman

[RunByDesign]

"tactic de jour" of the left leaning media. Get used to it. And, their hope is eventually, people believe it. God forbid the opposing view is aired. Blasphemy I say....the opposing view can't be published, it will slow the "brainwashing" of the masses...dman

Post some other point of view, that counters these notions, then, honestly.

I fail to understand why all a large portion of members here do, is whine about the information being posted, when a simple solution would be to counter it with their own sources and points of view.

The "left-leaning media" argument, is fruitless and tired, at this stage of the game. The administrations of the said powers certainly have the financial and influential resources to propagandize any sort of info that they want.

There are plenty of other sources out there that would probably reinforce and support the notions that you adhere to.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Let's get some Reuters photos up on this thread so the civilian-slaughtering Israelis can really get exposed!

[Hotrod]

Hes pretty fricking stupid for a "Dr." we did not bomb your house. No wonder peace is hard to find in the ME its like one giant fricking nut house over there.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Hes pretty fricking stupid for a "Dr." we did not bomb your house. No wonder peace is hard to find in the ME its like one giant fricking nut house over there.
I think the "Dr." is referring to Israel using the bombs we give them to destroy their city and people. It's front page news over there every move we make that supports the Israelis.

This quote tells me why destroying and killing these people will never succeed but only grow their cause unless total destruction is unleased on all Muslim countires.


“Who is Hezbollah?” Ms. Asya went on, gesturing at the residents and aid workers in the streets all around her. “They are the sons and daughters and parents of Hezbollah.”

[Rohirrim]

I think the "Dr." is referring to Israel using the bombs we give them to destroy their city and people. It's front page news over there every move we make that supports the Israelis.

This quote tells me why destroying and killing these people will never succeed but only grow their cause unless total destruction is unleased on all Muslim countires.

That is a fallacy. We do not "give" Israel bombs.


We give them taxpayer money (the largest amount of foreign aid we give to any country on earth) so they can turn around and buy weapons from our military industrial complex, which buys the politicians, who go to Washington, and lobby to increase the foreign aid which goes to Israel, so they can buy...
and so on. :)

[epicSocialism4tw]

Israel buys bombs.

Thank goodness they do, because they are the lone hope in a region full of warmongering idiots.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Israel buys bombs.

Thank goodness they do, because they are the lone hope in a region full of warmongering idiots.
What are you talking about, we are instilling democracy in Iraq and have Iran on the nation building list.

[defenseman]

Post some other point of view, that counters these notions, then, honestly.

I fail to understand why all a large portion of members here do, is whine about the information being posted, when a simple solution would be to counter it with their own sources and points of view.

The "left-leaning media" argument, is fruitless and tired, at this stage of the game. The administrations of the said powers certainly have the financial and influential resources to propagandize any sort of info that they want.

There are plenty of other sources out there that would probably reinforce and support the notions that you adhere to.

There absolutely nothing wrong with stating a point of view, sources provided or not......and it gets very tiresome justifying ones own personal point of view. You cannot spend your life justifying yourself and your point of view to every person that says they don't like it. I could care less what they like or dislike to be honest, it may be tired, but, it's still a point of view. And I believe quite honestly the "left" needs to prove, the media doesn't swing left, which appears quite prevalent in todays media debacle..dman

There are plenty of other sources out there that would probably reinforce and support the notions that you adhere to.

Your statement here sums it up. Except there is no probably about it. And, if I were so inclined, I would challenge the left to disprove the bold. In addition, to be quite honest, good sources are difficult. One that both parties would agree is smack dab in the middle. Alot of sources are so far left or right, they automatically recuse themselves due to the basic "need" behind the need. In short, biased reporting. Sometimes world events is all the justification one needs. Assuming factual depiction of the events, untwisted by the media I might add.

All that said, feel free to not like it. I have no problem with that at all.

[Hotrod]

I think the "Dr." is referring to Israel using the bombs we give them to destroy their city and people. It's front page news over there every move we make that supports the Israelis.

This quote tells me why destroying and killing these people will never succeed but only grow their cause unless total destruction is unleased on all Muslim countires.

Ok I see that......its just too bad hes unable to realize his neighbors started this **** and Israel would have finished it had the worthless UN not stepped in. He should be pissed at his terrorist neighbors who got his **** blown up.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Ok I see that......its just too bad hes unable to realize his neighbors started this **** and Israel would have finished it had the worthless UN not stepped in. He should be pissed at his terrorist neighbors who got his **** blown up.


No doubt. That's the whole problem over there. Nobody is willing to point the finger at the criminals in their own backyards. The terrorist fascists are not held accountable by their fellow citizens.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Post some other point of view, that counters these notions, then, honestly.

I fail to understand why all a large portion of members here do, is whine about the information being posted, when a simple solution would be to counter it with their own sources and points of view.

The "left-leaning media" argument, is fruitless and tired, at this stage of the game. The administrations of the said powers certainly have the financial and influential resources to propagandize any sort of info that they want.

There are plenty of other sources out there that would probably reinforce and support the notions that you adhere to.
I have already done what you suggest...several tiimes. Initially I posted this:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060802/...lebanon_israel right here: http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?p=1208007&highlight=human+shields#post1208007 and followed it up with information provided by www.counterterrorism.org where I even posted the bio's on 12 of the 23 career experts who post in this blog who happen to disagree with the left leaning position of the CNN/Reuters professional propoganda doctors. Spider or somebody said it was bogus since the expert I quoted was around for the last 20 years during which time we've been attacked so obviously he knows nothing about what he's talking about since he's probably responsible for the screw ups personally. Other than that I was met by a deafening silence.

The margins on both the left and the right believe what they want to and you beter not confuse them with facts by people who know something. It's much more convenient to just listen to your own biased opinion being repeated by whoever says they have credentials, even when those credentialls prove to be bogus or unrelated to anything having to do with any of these issues.

If you follow my posts, I consistently bring facts and evidence to the table in combating both side of the political spectrum. Rarely does anyone care. Usually I just get some kind of spin on why they're right regardless of what evience suggests.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Ok I see that......its just too bad hes unable to realize his neighbors started this **** and Israel would have finished it had the worthless UN not stepped in. He should be pissed at his terrorist neighbors who got his **** blown up.
Not true, Bush stopped it and he could have stopped it anytime he chose to.

[Cito Pelon]

Beerslug, I like you, but the Arabs made their bed, now they have to sleep in it. The Jews have as much right to live their lives in their ancestral homeland as the Arabs do. But no, the Arabs willfully slaughter Hebrew man, woman, or child. With glee. That's the big deal. With glee. Sorry, I don't identify with that.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Beerslug, I like you, but the Arabs made their bed, now they have to sleep in it. The Jews have as much right to live their lives in their ancestral homeland as the Arabs do. But no, the Arabs willfully slaughter Hebrew man, woman, or child. With glee. That's the big deal. With glee. Sorry, I don't identify with that.

They all have the right to kill each other WITHOUT my or my family's tax dollars too. Hopefully, enough Americans will get their fill of this crap and demand that our money be NOT passed onto these radical religious idiots (all of them).

[SteveTensi13]

Better take a second look at that photo, you never know these days what with AlJazeera, er..I mean Reuters and NY times covering these things.

[mhgaffney]

Beerslug, I like you, but the Arabs made their bed, now they have to sleep in it. The Jews have as much right to live their lives in their ancestral homeland as the Arabs do. But no, the Arabs willfully slaughter Hebrew man, woman, or child. With glee. That's the big deal. With glee. Sorry, I don't identify with that.

Cito, you state the comon perception -- but that doesn't make it true.

The Zionists have won here in America. Their version of events has become the standard history -- even though it is heavily biased and often wrong. This is what Americans get on TV and in the papers. The other side is never presented in the US media.

The Zionists would have you believe that poor little Israel is surrounded by enemies who want to destroy it. But it's a lie. The fact is that the Arab world offered Israel a full peace treaty in 2002 -- not just recognition but an end to the conflict IF Israel would abide by UN Security Council resolutions (242 and 338) on Palestine, meaning that Israel must withdraw from lands seized in the 1967 war. Land for peace has been the formula for peace for many years.

This is the international consensus.

Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas have also stated they will honor a political settlement along these lines. But Israel has refused -- and the US now supports Israel's refusal.

This is the actual reality, despite what you hear on US TV.

MG

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Counter that with pictures of dead Hezbollah Fighters and Destroyed Hezbollah Infrastructure.

Or are they one in the same? That is - civilians and Hezbollah?

I mean, because all I have seen is destroyed public buildings, housing and dead civilians. If you're so interested in discounting these claims, provide us with some material that Israels' attack was intentively effective.

I'm not in the habit of researching this kind of material, so I am in interested. However, all I see is one particular kind of evidence or argument presented and the other party cry and whine that it is one-sided, without doing any of the legwork (bonafide research, not :parrot: ing party lines or catch phrases) to discount it.

Bingo. :thumbsup:

You nailed it (in this and your subsequent post.)

"Attack the messenger and pretend you've discredited the message" is the only arrow the right has left in its collective quiver.

[gunns]

It's sad on both sides. As with any "war" both sides governments blame each other while the people suffer the consequences for their stupidty. Much like Americans and Iraqi's are experiencing right now.

[Hotrod]

Not true, Bush stopped it and he could have stopped it anytime he chose to.

Then he flat screwed the pooch on this one Slug. Now alot of lives have been destoryed and people are dead and were still right where we were 5 weeks ago. :nono:

[W*GS]

The Zionists would have you believe that poor little Israel is surrounded by enemies who want to destroy it. But it's a lie.

Thanks for the the least truthful post-o-the-month.

Does Israel have a right to exist?

[Hotrod]

Thanks for the the least truthful post-o-the-month.

Does Israel have a right to exist?

No **** W*GS this guy is flat out insane.

None of Israels neighbors want to kill her Ha! Bwahahahahahaha holy **** batman Ha!

[Rigs11]

No **** W*GS this guy is flat out insane.

None of Israels neighbors want to kill her Ha! Bwahahahahahaha holy **** batman Ha!
gee maybe you should ask yourself why they want to kill her? Is it because they hate freedom?

[Rigs11]

Thanks for the the least truthful post-o-the-month.

Does Israel have a right to exist?
it does have the right. But peacefully and non occupying.

[Hotrod]

gee maybe you should ask yourself why they want to kill her? Is it because they hate freedom?

Religion

[DBruleU]

gee maybe you should ask yourself why they want to kill her? Is it because they hate freedom?

It's amazing how everything that is said in the Bible about Isreal and her enemies is so true and evident today.

[W*GS]

it does have the right. But peacefully and non occupying.

What do those two caveats mean?

[BroncoInferno]

It's amazing how everything that is said in the Bible about Isreal and her enemies is so true and evident today.

Yeah, I especially like the part where Moses slaughters the Hittites, then has his men finish off the women and children (excepting any virgins, who they get to keep for their own amusement). That's holy stuff right there.

[The Lone Bolt]

Cito, you state the comon perception -- but that doesn't make it true.

The Zionists have won here in America. Their version of events has become the standard history -- even though it is heavily biased and often wrong. This is what Americans get on TV and in the papers. The other side is never presented in the US media.

The Zionists would have you believe that poor little Israel is surrounded by enemies who want to destroy it. But it's a lie. The fact is that the Arab world offered Israel a full peace treaty in 2002 -- not just recognition but an end to the conflict IF Israel would abide by UN Security Council resolutions (242 and 338) on Palestine, meaning that Israel must withdraw from lands seized in the 1967 war. Land for peace has been the formula for peace for many years.

This is the international consensus.

Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas have also stated they will honor a political settlement along these lines. But Israel has refused -- and the US now supports Israel's refusal.

This is the actual reality, despite what you hear on US TV.

MG

Interesting, considering Hamas' charter explicitly calls for the destruction of Israel. Also interesting is that Hamas has refused to renounce violence or abide by previous treaties.

I have read that most arab state's and organization's requirement for the recognition of Israel is the "right of return" for the arabs who lost their homes (abandoned according to some, thrown out by the Israelis according to others) in Israel proper. This is a de-facto destruction of the state of Israel, and so the Israelis have found this demand unacceptable. Does that 2002 peace treaty require the right of return for recognition?

[BKK]

wept. Most said that before they returned, they had no idea of the scale of the destruction in this area, which includes many Hezbollah offices.

That seems to be the reason the area got destroyed. Instead of playing Dr. this guy and all his buddies ought to get together and take back their country from Hezbollah instead of blaming the USA. Idiots should be pissed at Iran not us. If he keeps that attitude he will be lumped in with all the other bad guys and his house will be on a target list.

[Spider]

this was a proxy war ....... Iran fought through Hezbollah vs US through Israel ....
the message was sent , make no mistake about it , the message is , the capitiol of Iran will look like Lebanon if you keep screwing around Mr Shíthead from Iran .....