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L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-14-2006, 06:22 PM
Amid the political and diplomatic fallout from Israel’s faltering invasion of Lebanon, some Israeli officials are privately blaming President George W. Bush for egging Prime Minister Ehud Olmert into the ill-conceived military adventure against the Hezbollah militia in south Lebanon.

Bush conveyed his strong personal support for the military offensive during a White House meeting with Olmert on May 23, according to sources familiar with the thinking of senior Israeli leaders.

Olmert, who like Bush lacks direct wartime experience, agreed that a dose of military force against Hezbollah might damage the guerrilla group’s influence in Lebanon and intimidate its allies, Iran and Syria, countries that Bush has identified as the chief obstacles to U.S. interests in the Middle East.

As part of Bush’s determination to create a “new Middle East” – one that is more amenable to U.S. policies and desires – Bush even urged Israel to attack Syria, but the Olmert government refused to go that far, according to Israeli sources.

One source said some Israeli officials thought Bush’s attack-Syria idea was “nuts” since much of the world would have seen the bombing campaign as overt aggression.

In an article on July 30, the Jerusalem Post referred to Bush’s interest in a wider war involving Syria. Israeli “defense officials told the Post last week that they were receiving indications from the US that America would be interested in seeing Israel attack Syria,” the newspaper reported.

While balking at an expanded war into Syria, Olmert did agree on the need to show military muscle in Lebanon as a prelude to facing down Iran over its nuclear program, which Olmert has called an “existential” threat to Israel.

With U.S. forces bogged down in Iraq, Bush and his neoconservative advisers saw the inclusion of Israeli forces as crucial for advancing a strategy that would punish Syria for supporting Iraqi insurgents, advance the confrontation with Iran and isolate Hezbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in Gaza.

But the month-long war has failed to achieve its goals of destroying Hezbollah forces in south Lebanon or intimidating Iran and Syria.

Instead, Hezbollah guerrillas fought Israeli troops to a virtual standstill in villages near the border and much of the world saw Israel’s bombing raids across Lebanon – which killed hundreds of civilians – as “disproportionate.”

Now, as the conflict winds down, some Israeli officials are ruing the Olmert-Bush pact on May 23 and fault Bush for pushing Olmert into the conflict.

Building Pressure

Soon after the May 23 meeting in Washington, Israel began to ratchet up pressure on the Hamas-led government in the Palestinian territories and on Hezbollah and other Islamic militants in Lebanon. As part of this process, Israel staged low-key attacks in both Lebanon and Gaza. [For details, see Consortiumnews.com “A ‘Pretext’ War in Lebanon.”]

The tit-for-tat violence led to the Hamas seizure of an Israeli soldier on June 24 and then to Israeli retaliatory strikes in Gaza. That, in turn, set the stage for Hezbollah’s attack on an Israeli outpost and the capture of two more Israeli soldiers on July 12.

Hezbollah’s July 12 raid became the trigger that Bush and Olmert had been waiting for. With the earlier attacks unknown or forgotten, Israel and the U.S. skillfully rallied international condemnation of Hezbollah for what was called an unprovoked attack and a “kidnapping” of Israeli soldiers.

Behind the international criticism of Hezbollah, Bush and Olmert justified an intense air campaign against Lebanese targets, killing civilians and destroying much of Lebanon’s commercial infrastructure. Israeli troops also crossed into southern Lebanon with the intent of delivering a devastating military blow against Hezbollah, which retaliated by firing Katyusha rockets into Israel..

However, the Israeli operation was eerily reminiscent of the disastrous U.S. invasion and occupation of Iraq. Like the U.S. assault, Israel relied heavily on “shock and awe” air power and committed an inadequate number of soldiers to the battle.

Israeli newspapers have been filled with complaints from soldiers who say some reservists weren’t issued body armor while other soldiers found their equipment either inferior or inappropriate to the battlefield conditions.

Israeli troops also encountered fierce resistance from Hezbollah guerrillas, who took a page from the Iraqi insurgents by using explosive booby traps and ambushes to inflict heavier than expected casualties on the Israelis.

Channel 2 in Israel disclosed that several top military commanders wrote a letter to Lt. Gen. Dan Halutz, the chief of staff, criticizing the war planning as chaotic and out of line with the combat training of the soldiers and officers. [Washington Post, Aug. 12, 2006]

One Israeli plan to use llamas to deliver supplies in the rugged terrain of south Lebanon turned into an embarrassment when the animals simply sat down.

Reporter Nahum Barnea, who traveled with an Israeli unit in south Lebanon, compared the battle to “the famous Tom and Jerry cartoons” with the powerful Israeli military playing the role of the cat Tom and the resourceful Hezbollah guerrillas playing the mouse Jerry. “In every conflict between them, Jerry wins,” Barnea wrote.

Olmert Criticized

Back in Israel, some leading newspapers have begun calling for Olmert’s resignation.

“If Olmert runs away now from the war he initiated, he will not be able to remain prime minister for even one more day,” the newspaper Haaretz wrote in a front-page analysis. “You cannot lead an entire nation to war promising victory, produce humiliating defeat and remain in power.

“You cannot bury 120 Israelis in cemeteries, keep a million Israelis in shelters for a month and then say, ‘Oops, I made a mistake.’” [See Washington Post, Aug. 12, 2006]

For his part, Bush spent July and early August fending off international demands for an immediate cease-fire. Bush wanted to give Olmert as much time as possible to bomb targets across Lebanon and dislodge Hezbollah forces in the south.

But instead of turning the Lebanese population against Hezbollah – as Washington and Tel Aviv had hoped – the devastation rallied public support behind Hezbollah.

As the month-long conflict took on the look of a public-relations disaster for Israel, the Bush administration dropped its resistance to international cease-fire demands and joined with France in crafting a United Nations plan for stopping the fighting.

Quoting “a senior administration official” with Bush at his ranch in Crawford, Texas, the New York Times reported that “it increasingly seemed that Israel would not be able to achieve a military victory, a reality that led the Americans to get behind a cease-fire.” [NYT, Aug. 12, 2006]

But the repercussions from Israel’s failed Lebanon offensive are likely to continue. Olmert must now confront the political damage at home and the chief U.S. adversaries in the Middle East may be emboldened by the outcome, more than chastened.

As in the Iraq War, Bush has revealed again how reliance on tough talk and military might can sometimes undercut – not build up – U.S. influence in the strategically important Middle East.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/081206.html

http://www.bartcop.com/moron-driving.jpg

Rigs11
08-14-2006, 06:40 PM
The cowboy egging someone to go to war? I'm shocked:spit: "Bring em on"

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-14-2006, 07:31 PM
The cowboy egging someone to go to war? I'm shocked:spit: "Bring em on"

Getting other people to fight your wars for you is a Bush family tradition.

http://www.unitedmedia.com/editoons/benson/archive/images/benson2006229030810.gif

mhgaffney
08-15-2006, 07:47 AM
Olmert's political career is terminado. Israel lost 40+ men on the final day.

cbs1177
08-15-2006, 07:56 AM
Isreali has a free spirit they attack a nuclear plant in the eighties with out US blessings. I really think british and Isreali intelligence is better then ours. So I don't think Isreali was sucked in to this battle. If all else we have seen how Iran and Sryia has helped the terrorist group so Isreali can update their tactics it is really a no lose for Isreali.

footstepsfrom#27
08-15-2006, 08:41 AM
Aside from the obvious...that Robert Parry is a noted leftist...I failed to find a single named source of information in the article. I'm inherently suspicious of "news" articles that limit their information to "a source said"..."anonomous sources said"..."sources claim"...etc...etc. Assuming the story's not an outright lie, which I'm not assuming...at best this article indicates that "someone" holds these opinions. I'd like to know more...how many in Israel's government...who are they...what's their political party affilication...etc...

I don't think that's to much to ask.

BroncoBuff
08-15-2006, 09:35 AM
One Israeli plan to use llamas to deliver supplies in the rugged terrain of south Lebanon turned into an embarrassment when the animals simply sat down.
ROFL! :rofl:

St ... st .... still ... la ... la... laughing!

MAN! You can't make up stuff that funny!

:rofl: :~ohyah!:

W*GS
08-15-2006, 09:52 AM
Of course it's Bush's fault! Geez.

BroncoBuff
08-15-2006, 09:59 AM
Aside from the obvious...that Robert Parry is a noted leftist...I failed to find a single named source of information in the article. I'm inherently suspicious of "news" articles that limit their information to "a source said"..."anonomous sources said"..."sources claim"...etc...etc. Assuming the story's not an outright lie, which I'm not assuming...at best this article indicates that "someone" holds these opinions. I'd like to know more...how many in Israel's government...who are they...what's their political party affilication...etc...

I don't think that's to much to ask.
I agree with much of what you say. But in this case, I've been hgearing LOTS of this elsewhere, most notably from Seymour Hirsch in the current issue of "The New Yorker" magazine.

I saw Hersch on both Hardball and Charlie Rose yesterday alone, so Parry is hardly the only one. And I heard on radio news that Knesset members are calling for Olmert to resign.

I'm gonna post Hersch's article - but it's SUPER long, so I'll put it in a new thread.

bendog
08-15-2006, 12:06 PM
Interesting. I've been reading the Jerusalem Post for the last week or so, and the general spirit there is Bushii gave olmert the green light to go all the way to Bagdahd and do whatever he needed to do to dismantle hezbollah, but olmert still failed. But I haven't seen anything about Bushii presurring Olmert. Now Likud (Bibi Yetenhaho) wants to invade Syria ... and Egypt not to mention Iran. I'd guess that Olmert felt pressure from his former Likud soul mates, and Likud has direct links to cheney ... ie, Michael Ledeen.

SteveTensi13
08-15-2006, 12:11 PM
Names, names, names. Is that too much to ask? In other news, my "sources" have identified unamed, unanonymous insiders who privately revealed that top Syrian and Iranian sources and those within the inner-circle of power, urged hezbollah to attack Israel in hopes of bringing the US into the conflict.

SteveTensi13
08-15-2006, 12:13 PM
I agree with much of what you say. But in this case, I've been hgearing LOTS of this elsewhere, most notably from Seymour Hirsch in the current issue of "The New Yorker" magazine.

I saw Hersch on both Hardball and Charlie Rose yesterday alone, so Parry is hardly the only one. And I heard on radio news that Knesset members are calling for Olmert to resign.

I'm gonna post Hersch's article - but it's SUPER long, so I'll put it in a new thread.

Aren't Israeli politicians always asking for the resignation of the current Prime Minister?

Hotrod
08-15-2006, 12:25 PM
LOL these threads are of some funny ****

On a related note my sons gold fish died and hes pretty damn sure Bush is to blame Ha!

fdf
08-15-2006, 01:38 PM
Aside from the obvious...that Robert Parry is a noted leftist...I failed to find a single named source of information in the article. I'm inherently suspicious of "news" articles that limit their information to "a source said"..."anonomous sources said"..."sources claim"...etc...etc.

This just proves that if you hang out at www.insaneleftwingblogs.com long enough, you can find an article blaming W for anything.

BroncoBuff
08-15-2006, 03:35 PM
Problem was, those damn llamas simply sat down! ROFL!

mosca
08-15-2006, 04:55 PM
Sounds like an easy way for some Israelis to win back points in the PR arena: blame Bush. Guess they never heard of free will.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2006, 05:38 PM
Aside from the obvious...that Robert Parry is a noted leftist...

Robert Parry was one of the journalists who broke the Iran-Contra story for the AP. I guess that alone makes him a "leftist" and public enemy #1 to folks of your ideological stripe.

So, according to your logic, you would have to call into question whether or not the Iran-Contra scandal really happened simply because Parry reported on it.

I'm inherently suspicious of "news" articles that limit their information to "a source said"..."anonomous sources said"..."sources claim"...etc...etc.

Then you must be "inherently suspicious" of the majority of critical reporting on the frauds and felonies of BushCo that's been done in America since the beginning of this administration.

Seriously - are you not aware of the fact that, under BushCo, journalists trade integrity for access, and that most sources who offer info that might be construed as critical of the boy king do so anonymously (out of fear for their jobs or worse?)

Get real!

DBruleU
08-15-2006, 06:08 PM
LOL these threads are of some funny ****

On a related note my sons gold fish died and hes pretty damn sure Bush is to blame Ha!


I knew it!

I woke up with a killer headache this morning. Pretty sure Bush is to blame. And I was out of Tylenol. That jerk!

mhgaffney
08-15-2006, 06:15 PM
There's another scandal brewing in Israel. It seems that General Halutz, the leading Israeli general in this recent war, was thinking of his portfolio instead if his nation on the eve of battle.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/750789.html

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-15-2006, 06:16 PM
I knew it!

I woke up with a killer headache this morning. Pretty sure Bush is to blame. And I was out of Tylenol. That jerk!

You could save time and keystrokes by simply editing all of your posts down to a simple, bumper sticker-sized slogan, e.g., "don't criticize Bush," or "Dubya walks on water."

mhgaffney
08-15-2006, 06:16 PM
The more things change the more things change.

---Lao Tzu (or someone of the sane ilk)

SteveTensi13
08-15-2006, 11:01 PM
My cat coughed up a fur ball this morning... Damn that Bush, impeach the bastard!

DBruleU
08-15-2006, 11:32 PM
You could save time and keystrokes by simply editing all of your posts down to a simple, bumper sticker-sized slogan, e.g., "don't criticize Bush," or "Dubya walks on water."

Oh, the irony.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2006, 12:10 AM
Oh, the irony.

I'll take that as a "yes, IMO, the frat boy walks on water and is above criticism."

DBruleU
08-16-2006, 12:20 AM
I'll take that as a "yes, IMO, the frat boy walks on water and is above criticism."

You can take it however you see fit, like usual.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2006, 12:26 AM
You can take it however you see fit, like usual.

I'll take that as a "I'm not going to deny that I think Bush walks on water and/or is above criticism."

DBruleU
08-16-2006, 12:27 AM
I'll take that as a "I'm not going to deny that I think Bush walks on water and/or is above criticism."

Exactly.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
08-16-2006, 12:35 AM
Exactly.

You mean you do think Bush is above criticism and/or walks on water?

BroncoBuff
08-17-2006, 04:28 AM
Getting other people to fight your wars for you is a Bush family tradition.

Well ... that's not entirely true. GHW was a Navy fighter pilot in the Pacific and was shot down as you know.

You're actually referring to the Bush family "Neocoward" dynamic.

sbchampbronx
08-17-2006, 04:59 AM
Sounds like an easy way for some Israelis to win back points in the PR arena: blame Bush.

I have to agree, do u think if this war with lebanon had actually "worked" that bush would have gotten any credit?? No. When you start to drown you reach for anything to keep you from goin down. Also if we learned anything from this it is that Israel's macho, take no prisoners, non beaurocratic credentials for their military machine are actually...not that good. Also Israel was pretty dumb to watch us fail in Iraq and think they could succeed in an almost identical war. Talk about stupid, at least they cut their losses and bailed, we should do the same sooner than later. In fact we should have pulled out after catching saddam and pretended that meant "victory", we woulda looked extremely stupid, but we look even dumber every day that we continue. At least that would have saved American lives and some face+ tax $$$. Instead we get stuck deeper and deeper in a pointless quagmire, bumbling around like idiots and making enemies and for what?? Iraqi freedom?? yeah right, who honestly cares or cared about that before?