Minuteman Salsa...buy a jar and kick an illegal outta here

[footstepsfrom#27]

Heard about this on the radio today...25% of the profits go to support the private border patrol known as the "Minutemen" that are keeping an eye on illegals coming over the border. From the website: http://www.minutemansalsa.com/default.html
Supporting our country by supporting the Minuteman Project
A portion of the proceeds of every sale of Minuteman Salsa will benefit the courageous men and women of the Minuteman Project, guarding America’s borders.

These good people are watching our border while our government is too busy doing other things.
http://www.minutemansalsa.com/images/minute-man-salsa-jar.jpg
America's Patriotic Salsa

Discuss ;D

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Cool.

Hopefully the idea will take off and we'll see the emergence of businesses like "Minuteman Construction Company" and "Minuteman Landscaping" sometime soon.

[RMT]

Heard about this on the radio today...25% of the profits go to support the private border patrol known as the "Minutemen" that are keeping an eye on illegals coming over the border. From the website: http://www.minutemansalsa.com/default.html

http://www.minutemansalsa.com/images/minute-man-salsa-jar.jpg
America's Patriotic Salsa

Discuss ;D

Awesome - I wonder if anyone will bring some of this stuff to the tailgates :)

[footstepsfrom#27]

Yikes! One problem...it's $4.95 a jar. Yikes!

[Orange4ever]

Yikes! One problem...it's $4.95 a jar. Yikes!

Quite cheap, if you ask me, to secure our borders!

[Spider]

I wish I could get on the hate bandwagon ...... I did for a bit when all that protesting went down , but now that time is passed , I dont hate em anymore ...... it is just damn hard to hate a hard working man supporting his family any way he can ..........But Iam working on it

[SteveTensi13]

I wish I could get on the hate bandwagon ...... I did for a bit when all that protesting went down , but now that time is passed , I dont hate em anymore ...... it is just damn hard to hate a hard working man supporting his family any way he can ..........But Iam working on it

Yea, Know what you mean. Imagine all the time and effort it takes to pack all that cocaine, heroin and marijuana into those tiny little spaces upinside a cars dashboard or wheel well. Then have to truck all that stuff hundreds of miles across the border dodging cops left and right. Man I feel for them!

[spdirty]

good deal...I'll have to get some.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Yea, Know what you mean. Imagine all the time and effort it takes to pack all that cocaine, heroin and marijuana into those tiny little spaces upinside a cars dashboard or wheel well. Then have to truck all that stuff hundreds of miles across the border dodging cops left and right. Man I feel for them!

I guess it takes one to know one. :D

[SteveTensi13]

I guess it takes one to know one. :D

Good God that was weak! Tired are we?

[BKK]

Great idea! and kind of ironic, being that it is salsa. I will buy it, but what needs to be done is to get it served in restaurants to drive the message home.

[Hotrod]

I'd buy it if its good I love a good salsa...

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I wish I could get on the hate bandwagon ...... I did for a bit when all that protesting went down , but now that time is passed , I dont hate em anymore ...... it is just damn hard to hate a hard working man supporting his family any way he can ..........But Iam working on it Don't have to hate anyone to understand that allowing criminals unfettered access to this country is a critical security risk let alone the billions and billions these people that break our country's laws cost American taxpayers every year.

About Minuteman Salsa


<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="43%">Buy Legal Salsa

</td> <td width="57%">http://www.minutemansalsa.com/images/AmericanFlag.jpg
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> Minuteman Salsa is American-made salsa. We are proud of our country, and believe it’s worth defending.
Leading competitors – including brands you probably have in your pantry – are either foreign made or rely on foreign-sourced ingredients.
At Minuteman Salsa, American citizens are proud to make America’s Patriotic Salsa. We don’t rely on illegal workers, foreign factories, or crops grown south of the border.

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td width="43%">Deport Bad Taste

</td> <td width="57%">http://www.minutemansalsa.com/images/Mexico-Flag.gif
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> You won’t see “Product of Mexico” on our label, because it’s not.
Unlike “Big Salsa”, Minuteman Salsa isn’t afraid to tell you where we make our products. If you ask them where their tomatoes, peppers, and onions come from, Big Salsa will say that’s “proprietary information”. That sounds like code words for “no where around here.” You have a right to know: we’re US made.

[Spider]

Yeah I knw they are criminals , oh and Steve you should be kiising all thier asses without them you are back to metermais status ............. Busting those bastards that try to park for 2 ½ hours in a 2 hour parking zone

[orangenblue2]

Yea, Know what you mean. Imagine all the time and effort it takes to pack all that cocaine, heroin and marijuana into those tiny little spaces upinside a cars dashboard or wheel well. Then have to truck all that stuff hundreds of miles across the border dodging cops left and right. Man I feel for them!

Yeah, they all do that. Have another frickin donut...

[El Minion]

Blending In, Moving Up (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/11/AR2006061100922.html)

By Tyler Cowen and Daniel M. Rothschild
Monday, June 12, 2006; A21

Beneath the surface of the immigration debate is a debate about shared values. If we look at just three of those values -- the English language, family and hard work -- we see a higher level of Latino assimilation than is often presumed.

Despite claims to the contrary, census data show that most Latino immigrants learn and speak English quite well. Only about 2.5 percent of American residents speak Spanish but not English. The majority of residents of Spanish-speaking households speak English "very well."

Only 7 percent of the children of Latino immigrants speak Spanish as a primary language, and virtually none of their children do. Just as they did a century ago, immigrants largely come knowing little English. But they learn, and their children use it as a primary language. The United States is not becoming a bilingual nation.

A key indicator is the rise of the English-language Latino publication market. National magazines such as Hispanic Business (circulation 265,000) and Latina (circulation 2 million) are published in English. So are regional publications in cities including New York, Houston and Los Angeles. The reason is simple: English is becoming the language of Hispanic American commerce and culture. Just as few Jewish-interest magazines are published in Yiddish, in a generation most Latino-interest publications will probably be in English.

The family has long been the core social unit in America, and immigrants share that value. Census data show that 62 percent of immigrants over age 15 are married, compared to 52 percent of natives. Only 6 percent of Latino adults are divorced, compared with 10 percent of whites and 12 percent of African Americans. Latino immigrants are more likely to live in multigenerational households rather than just visiting grandparents a couple of times a year.

Most Latino immigrants want to become U.S. citizens. This process takes years, so recent immigrants are not a good barometer. But according to the 2000 Census, the majority of Latinos who entered the United States before 1980 have become citizens. And second-generation immigrants are more likely to marry natives than immigrants, further assimilating their children. The majority of immigrants also own their own homes, a key part of the American dream.

Immigrants from Central and South America share the American predilection for hard work and economic advancement. Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics indicate that Hispanic men are more likely than white men to be in the labor force. While immigrant Latinas initially lag behind native women, Francine Blau and Lawrence Kahn of the National Bureau of Economic Research have shown that, despite initial inclinations to be stay-at-home moms, immigrant women quickly assimilate into the American workforce.

The children of Latino immigrants do especially well at work. James P. Smith of Rand Corp. has shown that the children and grandchildren of Latino immigrants come very close to closing educational and income gaps with native whites. This is the same as it has always been in American immigration: Newcomers know what keeps them outside the mainstream and work hard to make sure that their children do better. Immigrant Latino men make about half of what native whites do; their grandsons earn about 78 percent of the salaries of their native white friends.

Studies such as Smith's, because they track trends over time, are better at discovering patterns of assimilation than studies that compare immigrants in 2006 to natives. The latter present a snapshot; they can't demonstrate long-term trends.

It's true that recent immigrants have not been closing the wage gap as fast as earlier immigrants. But David Card of the University of California at Berkeley, John DiNardo of the University of Michigan and Eugena Estes of Princeton attribute this to an increase in inequality nationwide. Controlling for this, Latino immigrants are doing as well as immigrants a century ago.

Of course, assimilation is not instantaneous. First-generation immigrants often hold on to the language and customs of the old country. Some immigrants ghettoize themselves and avoid the mainstream. But the overall patterns are far more positive than many recent debates have suggested.

Let's not forget that assimilating into American culture means taking the bad with the good. Robert Sampson of Harvard has found that immigrants are 45 percent less likely than third-generation Americans to commit violent crime. Divorce rates increase with each generation.

For all the rhetoric on both sides, the evidence deserves a closer look. Latino immigrants, like generations of immigrants before, are entering the mainstream of life in the United States. Ours is the best country in the world at assimilating immigrants. This should be a badge of honor, and one that we wear proudly.

Tyler Cowen is a professor of economics at George Mason University and general director of its Mercatus Center. Daniel M. Rothschild is associate director of the Global Prosperity Initiative at the Mercatus Center.

© 2006 The Washington Post Company

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Blending In, Moving Up (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/11/AR2006061100922.html)

By Tyler Cowen and Daniel M. Rothschild
Monday, June 12, 2006; A21

Beneath the surface of the immigration debate is a debate about shared values. If we look at just three of those values -- the English language, family and hard work -- we see a higher level of Latino assimilation than is often presumed.

Despite claims to the contrary, census data show that most Latino immigrants learn and speak English quite well.
Where are your stats for ILLEGALS in this country?

[RMT]

I wish I could get on the hate bandwagon ...... I did for a bit when all that protesting went down , but now that time is passed , I dont hate em anymore ...... it is just damn hard to hate a hard working man supporting his family any way he can ..........But Iam working on it

It isn't that easy - they aren't all "hard working." I've heard personal accounts of some heinous crimes committed against American citizens. Then we end up paying for those illegal immigrants to sit in American jails.

I also do not agree with children of illegal immigrants being given citizenship. Educating a child of an illegal immigrant costs about $100,000 per child and most of these families are large. Just think - a family with 5 children cost taxpayers $500,000, and that's just to educate the children (and assuming they don't drop out). That does not include the welfare, WIC, food stamps, free healthcare benefits these families are given either. I don't have a problem with people living a decent life but I do when it's at the expense of the American taxpayer. I resent the fact that our generosity is being taken advantage of.

The sense of entitlement, along with the Aztlan movement in the southwest part of the United States that was evident during the spring "boycotts" only solidified my opposition.

[Spider]

It isn't that easy - they aren't all "hard working." I've heard personal accounts of some heinous crimes committed against American citizens. Then we end up paying for those illegal immigrants to sit in American jails.

I also do not agree with children of illegal immigrants being given citizenship. Educating a child of an illegal immigrant costs about $100,000 per child and most of these families are large. Just think - a family with 5 children cost taxpayers $500,000, and that's just to educate the children (and assuming they don't drop out). That does not include the welfare, WIC, food stamps, free healthcare benefits these families are given either. I don't have a problem with people living a decent life but I do when it's at the expense of the American taxpayer. I resent the fact that our generosity is being taken advantage of.

The sense of entitlement, along with the Aztlan movement in the southwest part of the United States that was evident during the spring "boycotts" only solidified my opposition.

:rofl: isnt that easy huh , all summer i have been in the deep south , Heat you wouldnt believe , I seen these illegals working , damn hard I might add .... this is the majority of them , sure some are lazy , drug runners and oh my Gawd some are even Democrats ( shudder) ............ you realy didnt think that cause they are all from mexico , they all behave the same way ?
some bad apples ruin it for everyone I guess

[Bronco_Beerslug]

:rofl: isnt that easy huh , all summer i have been in the deep south , Heat you wouldnt believe , I seen these illegals working , damn hard I might add .... this is the majority of them , sure some are lazy , drug runners and oh my Gawd some are even Democrats ( shudder) ............ you realy didnt think that cause they are all from mexico , they all behave the same way ?
some bad apples ruin it for everyone I guess
I'm pretty sure Illegals don't register under any party in the U.S.

[Spider]

I'm pretty sure Illegals don't register under any party in the U.S.
ROFL! ya think

[Spider]

rumor has it ..................this is just so shocking .......... that some of these illegal men have fathered ...... hope yo uare sitting down ... black children .....

[footstepsfrom#27]

rumor has it ..................this is just so shocking .......... that some of these illegal men have fathered ...... hope yo uare sitting down ... black children .....
I guess your point is that poverty tends to breed social problems...right?

[Spider]

I guess your point is that poverty tends to breed social problems...right?
no not realy , I just think a man working to improve his standard of living for himself and family shouldnt be looked down on , or called a criminal ..... FS27 , how far would you go to improve the life of your family ?
could you go to bed knowing your kids are hungry ?

[El Minion]

Where are your stats for ILLEGALS in this country?


We all know it's about (illegal) immigration. Thats what these studies are about:

Study: Immigrants Not Hurting U.S. Jobs (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/10/AR2006081000590.html)
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER
The Associated Press
Thursday, August 10, 2006; 9:16 PM

WASHINGTON -- Big increases in immigration since 1990 have not hurt employment prospects for American workers, says a study released Thursday.

The report comes as Congress and much of the nation are debating immigration policy, a big issue in this fall's midterm congressional elections.

The Pew Hispanic Center found no evidence that increases in immigration led to higher unemployment among Americans, said Rakesh Kochhar, who authored the study.

Kochhar said other factors, such as economic growth, played a larger role than immigration in setting the job market for Americans.

Kochhar cautioned that immigration could affect job markets in some local areas, but the study found no national trends supporting a link. States with big increases in immigration were just as likely to have low unemployment as states with little immigration, he said.

"We cannot say with certainty that the growth in the foreign born population has either hurt or helped" the job market, Kochhar said.

The study, however, did not look at whether wages were affected by immigration. Advocates for tighter immigration policies argue that immigrant workers depress wages for American workers, especially those with few skills and little education.

Immigration supporters argue that foreign workers often take jobs that Americans don't want and won't take.

The Pew Hispanic Center is a nonpartisan research organization that does not advocate policy positions. The center studied census data on the increase in immigrants from 1990 to 2000, and from 2000 to 2004, for each state. It matched those figures with state employment rates, unemployment rates and participation in the labor force among native-born Americans.

The U.S. had 28 million immigrants _ legal and illegal _ age 16 and older in 2000, an increase of 61 percent from 1990. By 2004, there were 32 million.

Among the study's findings:

_Twenty-two states had immigration levels above the national average from 1990 to 2000. Among them, 14 had employment rates for native-born workers above the national average in 2000, and eight had employment rates below the national average.

_Twenty-eight states and the District of Columbia had immigration levels below the national average from 1990 to 2000. Among them, 16 had above average employment rates for native-born workers in 2000, and 13 had below average employment rates.

_Twenty-four states had immigration levels above the national average from 2000 to 2004. Among them, 13 states had employment rates for native-born Americans above the national average in 2004, and 11 had employment rates below the national average.

_Twenty-six states and the District of Columbia had immigration levels below the national average from 2000 to 2004. Among them, 12 had employment rates for native-born Americans above the national average, and 15 had employment rates below the national average.

Immigrants tend to be younger and have less education than American workers. The study, however, found "no apparent relationship between the growth of foreign workers with less education and the employment outcome of native workers with the same low level of education."

However, Steven Camarota, director of research for the Center for Immigration Studies, said his research shows that many young workers with little education are hurt by competition from immigrants.

"Employment for less educated natives has declined, and their wages have declined," said Camarota, who advocates stricter immigration policies. "There is no shortage of less educated workers in the United States."

__

On The Net:

Pew Hispanic Center: http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID69

Center for Immigration Studies: http://www.cis.org/

[footstepsfrom#27]

no not realy , I just think a man working to improve his standard of living for himself and family shouldnt be looked down on , or called a criminal ..... FS27 , how far would you go to improve the life of your family ?
could you go to bed knowing your kids are hungry ?
No...I don't blame them for coming in here. I blame the US government, specifically the Bush administration, for throwing the door wide open.

But what's that got to do with illegals having mixed race kids? I missed something there...

[Spider]

No...I don't blame them for coming in here. I blame the US government, specifically the Bush administration, for throwing the door wide open.

But what's that got to do with illegals having mixed race kids? I missed something there...
the mixed race kids was a jab at Steve tensi13 ...........

[Hogan11]

Minuteman Salsa eh? I betcha it's made in New York City!! Ha!

[elsid13]

I really don't believe this.

[footstepsfrom#27]

the mixed race kids was a jab at Steve tensi13 ...........
OK...

[Bronco_Beerslug]

We all know it's about (illegal) immigration. Thats what these studies are about:
Exactly!! That and leaving our borders WIDE open.

---------------------------------------
Report: Illegal Immigration Could Cost Taxpayers Trillions
UPDATED: 6:47 pm PDT August 2, 2006
Congressional Hearing On Immigration Held In San Diego
SAN DIEGO -- Future costs for illegal immigrants in the United States will reach a half a trillion dollars, a Heritage Foundation researcher said Wednesday at congressional hearing in San Diego.

The influx of illegal immigrants has effectively "imported about 10 million high school dropouts into the United States," said Robert Rector, a senior research fellow in welfare and family issues for the Washington, D.C.-based think tank.

Rector testified before the House Judiciary Committee, which convened at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot for one in a series of hearings on illegal immigration this month.

The hearings are a rebuttal to a Senate bill that House members believe will result in amnesty for illegal immigrants.

The topic of the discussion was the fiscal impacts of illegal immigration.

The National Academy of Sciences estimated that each immigrant will result in a $100,000 net annual cost to taxpayers.

Rector said once illegal immigrants become citizens they can bring family members into the country, straining education and health care budgets.

"This Senate bill will become the largest expansion of the welfare system in 30 years and it's the wrong thing to do," he said.

CONT (http://tinyurl.com/o37na)



Illegal aliens cost California billions
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California — which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide — $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.

A key finding of the report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) said the state's already struggling kindergarten-through-12th-grade education system spends $7.7 billion a year on children of illegal aliens, who constitute 15 percent of the student body.

The report also said the incarceration of convicted illegal aliens in state prisons and jails and uncompensated medical outlays for health care provided to illegal aliens each amounted to about $1.4 billion annually. The incarceration costs did not include judicial expenditures or the monetary costs of the crimes committed by illegal aliens that led to their incarceration.

"California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal-alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle-class tax base," said FAIR President Dan Stein.

"Most Californians, who have seen their taxes increase while public services deteriorate, already know the impact that mass illegal immigration is having on their communities, but even they may be shocked when they learn just how much of a drain illegal immigration has become," he said.

California is estimated to be home to nearly 3 million illegal aliens.
Mr. Stein noted that state and local taxes paid by the unauthorized immigrant population go toward offsetting these costs, but do not match expenses. The total of such payments was estimated in the report to be about $1.6 billion per year.

He also said the total cost of illegal immigration to the state's taxpayers would be considerably higher if other cost areas, such as special English instruction, school meal programs or welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal-alien workers were added into the equation.

CONT (http://tinyurl.com/jmx8p)

----------------------------------------------------------

[footstepsfrom#27]

I really don't believe this.
What?

[Spider]

OK...
thanks for oking it..............I was worried you wouldnt approve

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

No...I don't blame them for coming in here. I blame the US government, specifically the Bush administration, for throwing the door wide open.

Yep.

And the GOP's interference in the recent presidential election in Mexico was intended to ensure that the door stays wide open.

The GOP steals another election, this time in Mexico

Randolph T. Holhut

DUMMERSTON, Vt. - If only Al Gore and John Kerry could have been more like Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador and Party of the Democratic Revolution (PRD).

In the face of widespread fraud and trickery in the July 2 Mexican presidential election, Lopez Obrador and his party haven't conceded. Hundreds of thousands have taken to the streets to protest, and Lopez Obrador has gone to court to appeal the result.

He says there is evidence of computerized manipulation of election results and other voting fraud. He wants authorities to conduct a manual recount of all 42 million votes cast in the July 2 election.

Unfortunately, the press is behaving the same way it did in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004 - pretending that a free and fair election took place and writing off the complaints of fraud as whining by sore losers.

But that's not the only similarity between Florida 2000, Ohio 2004 and Mexico 2006. Some of the people that helped George W. Bush prevail in 2000 have been working in Mexico to help Felipe Calderon and his ruling National Action Party (PAN) in 2006.

Calderon is claiming victory over Lopez Obrador, but the margin of victory for the PAN was just 244,000 votes, or about 0.6 percent.

According to investigative journalist Greg Palast, who extensively documented the election fraud that took place in Florida in 2000, the same firm that "scrubbed" the voter rolls of black voters in Florida did the same thing in Mexico.

ChoicePoint, a Georgia-based firm, wrongly removed tens of thousands of black voters off the Florida rolls in 2000, people who were unlikely to vote for Bush. In Mexico, voters in poorer neighborhoods that were PRD supporters also found themselves off the voting list. There were reports of long lines in neighborhoods that backed the PRD, but polling places there somehow ran out of ballots.

In Florida, there were supposedly 179,000 blank or unreadable ballots and 88 percent of them came from black voting districts. In Mexico, there were 827,000 ballots that were blank or unreadable, and many of them came from districts that supported the PRD.

Palast now reports that the International Republican Institute, an arm of the Republican Party funded by the U.S. government, also provided tactical training to PAN operatives. Not much of a surprise there, since Calderon's party is strongly supported by the Bush administration.

So, while the PAN claims a free and fair election was held in Mexico, it refuses to recount the ballots or explain why so many voters were purged from the election lists or why there were so many blank ballots.

This isn't the first time that a left-of-center candidate in Mexico has had a presidential election stolen from him. The PRD apparently won in 1988, and the PAN and the then-ruling Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) collaborated on manipulating the results to give the PRI candidate, Carlos Salinas, the victory.

Mexicans have little reason to not believe the same thing is happening again. But unlike Gore and Kerry, Lopez Obrador and his party are not going to roll over and allow this election to be stolen.

This election has exposed the deep divisions in Mexican society. The gap between rich and poor in Mexico is considerable and has grown over the past decade. The rich support Calderon. The poor support Lopez Obrador. Calderon supports economic policies that benefit the wealthy. Lopez Obrador wants the government to redistribute more of the nation's wealth to poorer Mexicans.

Lopez Obrador is not as much of a leftist firebrand as Venezuela's Hugo Chavez or Bolivia's Evo Morales. He is more like Brazil's Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva, someone who will be able to balance the demands of the wealthy with the needs of the poor. But another left-of-center government in Latin America is not what the Bush administration wants, and it is safe to say that the United States will do what it can to prevent Lopez Obrador from taking power.

The Mexican courts have until Sept. 6 to officially certify the election results. In the face of so many documented election irregularities, it is vital that every vote is counted and every attempt to make this election truly free and fair is taken. The alternative is unrest and chaos by Mexicans who are not about to accept another tainted election victory by a conservative candidate.

Randolph T. Holhut has been a journalist in New England for more than 25 years. He edited "The George Seldes Reader" (Barricade Books). He can be reached at randyholhut@yahoo.com.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Minuteman Salsa eh? I betcha it's made in New York City!! Ha!
NEW YORK CITY? YIKES!

Get a rope...;D

[elsid13]

What?

Minuteman selling a Salsa. There is something ironic here. I kinda hoping that it made south of the border.

[footstepsfrom#27]

thanks for oking it..............I was worried you wouldnt approve
Glad to aleviate your fears...but that was not the "approval" OK...it was the "Oh" OK...

It sounded like you were doing something else at first...

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Minuteman selling a Salsa. There is something ironic here. I kinda hoping that it made south of the border.
What? Didn't you read the thread?

-------------------------------------------------------
Dallas hospital cares for illegal immigrants
But it's U.S. taxpayers who are footing the multi-million-dollar bill

By Don Teague
Correspondent
NBC News
Updated: 6:35 p.m. CT Aug 3, 2006


Don Teague
Correspondent
• Profile
DALLAS - Parkland Memorial Hospital — the same iconic institution where doctors tried to save John F. Kennedy in 1963 — is today where tens of thousands of illegal immigrants receive taxpayer subsidized care.

“Whether they come from this country or somewhere else, doesn’t matter how I treat them,” says Richard Benson, a doctor at Parkland Hospital.

The most common patients here are expectant mothers. Each year about 16,000 babies are born at Parkland. The hospital estimates about 70 percent of them are delivered by undocumented mothers.

Among the new mothers is a woman who didn't want to be identified — an illegal immigrant from Mexico. Her medical bills will run more than $6,000.

But with no insurance, Parkland — a public hospital — is forced to cover the cost.

“We have to figure out how to continue to deal with this because it’s very difficult to fund it,” says Parkland President Dr. Ron Anderson.

Anderson says the cost of treating undocumented immigrants — millions of dollars each year — is unsustainable.

CONT (http://tinyurl.com/glvgf)

[Spider]

but that was not the "approval" OK...it was the "Oh" OK...

It sounded like you were doing something else at first...
how will I ever sleep tonight now ....... just totaly crushed now .... add to it my UUUUU key is sticking ...........

[elsid13]

What? Didn't you read the thread?

Dude, It been bad bad day at work. I not at 100% tonight, so I am skimming threads.

[elsid13]

how will I ever sleep tonight now ....... just totaly crushed now .... add to it my UUUUU key is sticking ...........

Spider-

are you changing your login or is it Pez????

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Dude, It been bad bad day at work. I not at 100% tonight, so I am skimming threads.
That's a bummer!

[Spider]

Spider-

are you changing your login or is it Pez????
Pez is onery enough but it was me ..............Ole Errand didnt know who to rip into funny stuff ........ But it has been a long hard trip , I got my 11 year old with me , I love the kid to death , but he is a bull in a chinia closet ..... add to it I am closterphobic , and we have the top Bunk down ...makes it hard to breathe , I can handle short trips but these long ones with someone with you uggggg.....
But my 11 Year old was in Old Mexico one day and in Prision the next ;D .....Man I was getting antsy cause the prision wouldnt let us leave untill head count and lock down was over ..........So I am kinda spitefull tonight ... 342 miles from home ............Good news though Wife will be a calender girl for a truck drivers calender ...we might even get to use my rig , but I cant be in the picture ...... I even offered to wear a thong ;D

[elsid13]

That's a bummer!


**** happens. I'm off tomorrow to finish a master exam in economic and the weekend will be a beerfest, especial with Broncos on.

[El Minion]

Exactly!! That and leaving our borders WIDE open.

---------------------------------------
Report: Illegal Immigration Could Cost Taxpayers Trillions
UPDATED: 6:47 pm PDT August 2, 2006
Congressional Hearing On Immigration Held In San Diego
SAN DIEGO -- Future costs for illegal immigrants in the United States will reach a half a trillion dollars, a Heritage Foundation researcher said Wednesday at congressional hearing in San Diego.

The influx of illegal immigrants has effectively "imported about 10 million high school dropouts into the United States," said Robert Rector, a senior research fellow in welfare and family issues for the Washington, D.C.-based think tank.

Rector testified before the House Judiciary Committee, which convened at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot for one in a series of hearings on illegal immigration this month.

The hearings are a rebuttal to a Senate bill that House members believe will result in amnesty for illegal immigrants.

The topic of the discussion was the fiscal impacts of illegal immigration.

The National Academy of Sciences estimated that each immigrant will result in a $100,000 net annual cost to taxpayers.

Rector said once illegal immigrants become citizens they can bring family members into the country, straining education and health care budgets.

"This Senate bill will become the largest expansion of the welfare system in 30 years and it's the wrong thing to do," he said.

CONT (http://tinyurl.com/o37na)


What that article was reporting didn't include the full story (http://warrenreports.tpmcafe.com/blog/shawn_fremstad/2006/aug/03/memo_to_la_times_immigration_reduces_the_deficit) and was obviously biased and slanted:


---------------------------------------

<a href="/blog/shawn_fremstad/2006/aug/03/memo_to_la_times_immigration_reduces_the_deficit" title="Memo to LA Times: Immigration Reduces the Deficit">Memo to LA Times: Immigration Reduces the Deficit</a>
<div class="byline">By <a href="/user/15708/recent">Shawn Fremstad</a> | <a href="/user/15708">bio</a></div>
<div class="content">
There is really no debate any more among serious economists and social scientists on both the left and the right about the basic fact that immigration has been and continues to be good for the American economy and Americans in general. In June 2006, more than 500 economists of varying political perspectives, including five Nobel Prize winners, signed a <a href="http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=68461">letter to President Bush and Members of Congress</a> declaring as a consensus among economists that immigrants are a positive force in America. Even George Borjas, the leading economist who is still a critic of immigration, <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-cowen15may15,0,401627.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions">admits</a> that the net benefits are around $7 billion a year.

It's also a basic fact that legalizing currently undocumented immigrants and boosting overall immigration levels (within reasonable levels) would boost the overall fiscal benefits of immigration. According to the <a href="http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/72xx/doc7208/s2611.pdf">Congressional Budget Office</a>, the provisions in the Senate's immigration bill that would legalize many undocument immigrants and modestly increase overall immigration would be very good for the federal treasury. New federal taxes and fees paid by immigrants would increase by about $66 billion. Of course, some of these immigrants would receive subsidzed health care and other public benefits, but even after subtracting for these costs, the net positive effect for the federal treasury would be $12 billion over 10 years.

So that's why I found <a href="http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-me-immig3aug03,1,456811.story?coll=la-headlines-pe-california">Richard Marosi's story</a> in today's L.A. Times about a House hearing in San Diego on the "catastrophic costs" of "illegal" immigrants so maddening. Even thought the facts about the net postive benefits of immigration are about as clear cut as the facts about the harm of global warming, Marosi basically wrote a "he said, she said" story. What's worse, by titling the story "Costs of Immigrant Called Catastrophic" he allowed the flat-earth side to frame the story. And he failed to even mention the fact that CBO's estimates show a $12 billion gain from legalization.
<div class="links"><a href="/blog/15708" title="Read latest entries in Shawn Fremstad's Blog.">Shawn Fremstad's Blog</a> | <a href="/user/login?destination=node%2F32969%23comment_form">login</a> to post comments<br /> Aug 3, 2006 -- 02:37:34 PM EST</div>



Illegal aliens cost California billions
By Jerry Seper
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California — which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide — $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.

A key finding of the report by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) said the state's already struggling kindergarten-through-12th-grade education system spends $7.7 billion a year on children of illegal aliens, who constitute 15 percent of the student body.

The report also said the incarceration of convicted illegal aliens in state prisons and jails and uncompensated medical outlays for health care provided to illegal aliens each amounted to about $1.4 billion annually. The incarceration costs did not include judicial expenditures or the monetary costs of the crimes committed by illegal aliens that led to their incarceration.

"California's addiction to 'cheap' illegal-alien labor is bankrupting the state and posing enormous burdens on the state's shrinking middle-class tax base," said FAIR President Dan Stein.

"Most Californians, who have seen their taxes increase while public services deteriorate, already know the impact that mass illegal immigration is having on their communities, but even they may be shocked when they learn just how much of a drain illegal immigration has become," he said.

California is estimated to be home to nearly 3 million illegal aliens.
Mr. Stein noted that state and local taxes paid by the unauthorized immigrant population go toward offsetting these costs, but do not match expenses. The total of such payments was estimated in the report to be about $1.6 billion per year.

He also said the total cost of illegal immigration to the state's taxpayers would be considerably higher if other cost areas, such as special English instruction, school meal programs or welfare benefits for American workers displaced by illegal-alien workers were added into the equation.

CONT (http://tinyurl.com/jmx8p)

----------------------------------------------------------

Okay:kiddingme.....quoting and using as your source racist, xenophobic and nativist publishers (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=175) really reveals where you're coming from.

---------------------------------------
Federation for American Immigration Reform
Washington, D.C.
www.fairus.org

Founded in 1978 by John H. Tanton, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR) is one of the country's best-established anti-immigration groups — and the richest beneficiary among them of the largesse of the infamous Pioneer Fund.

The Fund, which has long subsidized dubious studies of the alleged links between race and intelligence, awarded FAIR $1.2 million between 1985 and 1994, according to the Institute for the Study of Academic Racism. FAIR now says that it has severed its links to the controversial Fund.

Today, FAIR claims a staggering 70,000 members, although that number is almost certainly inflated. Tanton remains on FAIR's board and also is the publisher of The Social Contract Press, which sells racist anti-immigrant tracts.

Dan Stein, the group's executive director, has warned that certain immigrant groups are engaged in "competitive breeding" aimed at diminishing white power. Rick Oltman, FAIR's western representative, has spoken before and worked with the racist Council of Conservative Citizens.

Garrett Hardin, a FAIR board member, has argued that aiding starving Africans is counterproductive and will only "encourage population growth." Overall, FAIR blames immigrants for crime, poverty, disease, urban sprawl and increasing racial tensions in America, and calls for a drastic cut in the numbers of those allowed in.

FAIR recently helped run a billboard campaign in Virginia blaming immigrants for traffic and sprawl. Last summer, FAIR attacked Sen. Spencer Abraham (R-Mich.), an Arab-American, for supporting more visas for foreigners with high-technology skills.

In radio and TV ads, it said Abraham's proposal could "make it easier for [Arab] terrorists like Osama bin Laden to export their way of terror to any street in America." FAIR's ads were condemned across the country and caused former Sen. Alan K. Simpson (R-Wyo.) to resign from FAIR's advisory board.

In a 1997 interview, Tanton said that unless U.S. borders are sealed, America will be overrun by people "defecating and creating garbage and looking for jobs."

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What that article was reporting didn't include the full story (http://warrenreports.tpmcafe.com/blog/shawn_fremstad/2006/aug/03/memo_to_la_times_immigration_reduces_the_deficit) and was obviously biased and slanted:


Okay:kiddingme.....quoting and using as your source racist, xenophobic and nativist publishers (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=175) really reveals where you're coming from.


Yeah, right as compared to your "unbiased" blog site. And it's obvious "where you're coming from".

And you really ought to read the links you post as reference. Your $12 billion plus figure is erroneous (not including any costs on state and local levels) nor does including anything outside of basic expenditures (CBO estimates that implementing the bill would result in new discretionary spending of about $25 billion over the 2007-2011 period (with additional spending after 2011), assuming the appropriation of the necessary funds.)

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

And it's obvious "where you're coming from".

I believe it's called "the NAFTA Super Highway."

;)

[defenseman]

They are ILLEGAL ALIENS. They deserve to be only one place, on the SOUTHERN side of the mexican border. I'll be buying an hoping they are cleaned out of the US faster with the help of the minuteman. GW has let me down on this issue, and I won't forget it. I expected more out of him on this.....dman

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

GW has let me down on this issue, and I won't forget it. I expected more out of him on this.....dman

Fair enough, but I'm just curious: what led you to believe that he would do anything more than what he's done with regard to illegal immigration?

[defenseman]

Fair enough, but I'm just curious: what led you to believe that he would do anything more than what he's done with regard to illegal immigration?

I don't know to be honest. He has lost major credibility with me on the issue of illegal aliens, AND if a DEM is the strongest candidate on this issue and I do believe he'll get the job done, he just may get my vote. Domestic "safety" hinges not only on shutting down the borders, BUT shutting down terrorism as we know it also. The latter is more difficult to fix, but the borders is a pretty simple solution as far as I'm concerned. And , I'll say it again, he has let us ALL down, including the illegals to a degree. It's like correcting a childs behavior when they are young, DO NOT wait till they get to old to handle..dman

[El Minion]

Yeah, right as compared to your "unbiased" blog site.

The source I provided is not on any hate group watch list like the Southern Poverty Law Center, which FAIR is listed. The blog in question simply pointed out published facts, not opinions, on the contradiction of Borjas who states immigration is a net benefit and is also supported by the Congressional Budget Office, yes that “liberal” institution :rofl:

And it's obvious "where you're coming from".

You are known by the company you keep, and FAIR is not one of them.

[El Minion]

I believe it's called "the NAFTA Super Highway."

;)


ROFL! ....No, but nice try....You and I appear to have the same political temperament, disappointing we don't agree on this issue, c'est la vie.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The source I provided is not on any hate group watch list like the Southern Poverty Law Center, which FAIR is listed. The blog in question simply pointed out published facts, not opinions, on the contradiction of Borjas who states immigration is a net benefit and is also supported by the Congressional Budget Office, yes that “liberal” institution
Uh, I used the very source you posted (CBO) to show you that YOU should actually read the sources you provide. IF you would have instead of relying on erroneous bloggers and third party interpretation of those numbers you would have seen that the plus 12 billion statement was completely inaccurate as it didn't include any costs on the state and local levels and also didn't include this little tidbit... CBO estimates that implementing the bill would result in new discretionary spending of about $25 billion over the 2007-2011 period (with additional spending after 2011), assuming the appropriation of the necessary funds.

Also, I used the National Academy of Sciences and Heritage Center as references as well as FAIR. But if you can show the FAIR numbers are incorrect, lets see it.



You are known by the company you keep, and FAIR is not one of them. No idea what this is suppose to mean.

[El Minion]

Also, I used the National Academy of Sciences and Heritage Center as references as well as FAIR. But if you can show the FAIR numbers are incorrect, lets see it.

No idea what this is suppose to mean.

Figure of speech, referring to myself as not "laying on the floor with dogs" with the likes of a racist organization such as FAIR. Might as well post drivel "reports" from the Klan or the American Nazi Party, they have the same credibility with me as Osama Bin Laden. But if hate groups are your thing.... You are known by the company you keep.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Figure of speech, referring to myself as not "laying on the floor with dogs" with the likes of a racist organization such as FAIR. Might as well post drivel "reports" from the Klan or the American Nazi Party, they have the same credibility with me as Osama Bin Laden. But if hate groups are your thing.... You are known by the company you keep.
I see you can't actually refute the numbers or make any argument that their incorrect, especially now that I have used your own source and others to confirm them so attacking the medium is all you're reduced to. Which renders any debate by you on the actual topic as worthless to say the least.

[gunns]

Yea, Know what you mean. Imagine all the time and effort it takes to pack all that cocaine, heroin and marijuana into those tiny little spaces upinside a cars dashboard or wheel well. Then have to truck all that stuff hundreds of miles across the border dodging cops left and right. Man I feel for them!

Another fine example of profiling by our police.

[gunns]

If you guys are so worried about the tax dollars and the crime you need to look in another area where the policy needs to be revised drastically, that is sucking our tax dollars at an alarming rate. Legal immigration.

The immigrants who are here legally are coming here in larger numbers than any illegals. Here in Utah we probably get about 100-200 new immigrants every month and that is just Utah. They are the one's sucking the system dry. They get 8 months of free assistance. They don't have to do anything for that assistance in the ways an American citizen does. Now there are efforts to get them that assistance for 24 months. They don't have to make any effort to work, although that is our primary focus with them is to get them jobs. They only have to go to English as a Second Language classes (which we pay for), which they have every excuse in the book for not going, because they know we will provide them with interpretors for every move they make. What they do learn from us is how to fraud the system that has helped them out. And yes, it is a lot of them, many more than the illegals. Childcare has become our biggest program where money is being spent (besides medicaid). They don't have to provide birth certificates for this program because they don't have them. If the daycare provider they are choosing is not licensed that provider must be a relative and they have to prove it through those birth certificates. We have one provider right now from Somalia who was supposedly the grandmother to children on 32 different cases for the past 4 years. Come to find out she hasn't provided daycare to one of these legal immigrant families, none of these families have been doing the activities they must do to get the daycare and she has been getting the checks and giving a small amount back to the families and keeping the bulk for herself. Yet we afford them the right to become American citizens. In our yearly audits for this program, only one illegal family was found to have been receiving it.

The illegals do it to the medicaid program, the legal one's do it to all programs. My dilemma is that there are good and bad in both the legals and the illegals and we need to find a way to weed the bad from the good because the good do benefit our country. I am in no way saying that because someone breaks a law they should be given an amnesty. All immigrants should be made to follow our laws. They aren't. The ENTIRE system sucks, and yes there should be reprecussions for breaking the laws, for everyone, including sending them back to their country, whether here legally or illegally. And they are all sucking our system dry. THAT'S my problem.

We had a woman apply for assistance saying her husband had left. She had just had her 12th child. I have dealt with this woman and her husband before and knew it wasn't true. She works at 7-11 yet her mortgage is all paid and her car is paid off, right. So we do an investigation and to make a long story short, we eventually prove that her husband is still with her and what we didn't know in the past is that he owns a market and had been making good money. Well what we also discovered is that the market he owns buys food stamp cards. This isn't the only market to do it. The owners buy their own food with the cards, but as the market owners to put in the paper work to the government and also get the money for the food bought with that card back from the government.

Because we nailed this husband and wife (from Afghanistan) he turned over and turned in the owners of at least 10 other markets in the valley doing the same thing. The clincher? They are all legal immigrants....from Iran, Somalia, Russia, Bosnia, etc. Some have even become American citizens. This is what they took from our kindness.

[El Minion]

I see you can't actually refute the numbers or make any argument that their incorrect, especially now that I have used your own source and others to confirm them so attacking the medium is all you're reduced to. Which renders any debate by you on the actual topic as worthless to say the least.

What's worthless is arguing and reasoning with racists and there lackeys.

[RMT]

If you guys are so worried about the tax dollars and the crime you need to look in another area where the policy needs to be revised drastically, that is sucking our tax dollars at an alarming rate. Legal immigration.

The immigrants who are here legally are coming here in larger numbers than any illegals. Here in Utah we probably get about 100-200 new immigrants every month and that is just Utah. They are the one's sucking the system dry. They get 8 months of free assistance. They don't have to do anything for that assistance in the ways an American citizen does. Now there are efforts to get them that assistance for 24 months. They don't have to make any effort to work, although that is our primary focus with them is to get them jobs. They only have to go to English as a Second Language classes (which we pay for), which they have every excuse in the book for not going, because they know we will provide them with interpretors for every move they make. What they do learn from us is how to fraud the system that has helped them out. And yes, it is a lot of them, many more than the illegals. Childcare has become our biggest program where money is being spent (besides medicaid). They don't have to provide birth certificates for this program because they don't have them. If the daycare provider they are choosing is not licensed that provider must be a relative and they have to prove it through those birth certificates. We have one provider right now from Somalia who was supposedly the grandmother to children on 32 different cases for the past 4 years. Come to find out she hasn't provided daycare to one of these legal immigrant families, none of these families have been doing the activities they must do to get the daycare and she has been getting the checks and giving a small amount back to the families and keeping the bulk for herself. Yet we afford them the right to become American citizens. In our yearly audits for this program, only one illegal family was found to have been receiving it.

The illegals do it to the medicaid program, the legal one's do it to all programs. My dilemma is that there are good and bad in both the legals and the illegals and we need to find a way to weed the bad from the good because the good do benefit our country. I am in no way saying that because someone breaks a law they should be given an amnesty. All immigrants should be made to follow our laws. They aren't. The ENTIRE system sucks, and yes there should be reprecussions for breaking the laws, for everyone, including sending them back to their country, whether here legally or illegally. And they are all sucking our system dry. THAT'S my problem.

We had a woman apply for assistance saying her husband had left. She had just had her 12th child. I have dealt with this woman and her husband before and knew it wasn't true. She works at 7-11 yet her mortgage is all paid and her car is paid off, right. So we do an investigation and to make a long story short, we eventually prove that her husband is still with her and what we didn't know in the past is that he owns a market and had been making good money. Well what we also discovered is that the market he owns buys food stamp cards. This isn't the only market to do it. The owners buy their own food with the cards, but as the market owners to put in the paper work to the government and also get the money for the food bought with that card back from the government.

Because we nailed this husband and wife (from Afghanistan) he turned over and turned in the owners of at least 10 other markets in the valley doing the same thing. The clincher? They are all legal immigrants....from Iran, Somalia, Russia, Bosnia, etc. Some have even become American citizens. This is what they took from our kindness.

Excellent points. What I resent is being made to feel guilty for expecting newcomers to learn ENGLISH as if we are violating THEIR rights and dissing their culture. It's obvious they want to "have their cake and eat it, too." If they were so set on being Americans, we would have seen a LOT fewer Mexico flags during the immigration "rights" protests in late spring. I'm in education and the protests confirmed one of the stereotypes about the Latino community - they do NOT value education, in general. It is probably going to cost our district AYP (Adequate Yearly Progress) as the protests interferred with state assessments. They will not take any blame for that either - it will be the teachers, schools, etc, or the fact that the tests had to be taken in English instead of Spanish. What they don't realize is that missing AYP this year puts us one year closer to "sanctions," which include LONGER school days and MORE days added to the school calendar.

Why is it that Americans are the ones being expected to assimilate by providing money and services to those who REFUSE to learn our language, obey our laws, and shout "racist" when someone disagrees with their position.

It is very upsetting to have people in the Latino community openly criticize legal citizens for our expectations that THEY learn OUR language (English), especially when they play the "race card." How many countries have their OWN citizens villified by ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS? It's absolutely ridiculous. One of the biggest differences between European and Latino immigrants is that European immigrants made greater attempts to assimilate rather than demand that the Americans assimilate to THEIR culture. It is disgusting when Latino "policy experts" spout stuff about "well, European immigrants didn't assimilate to the American Indian culture in the 1600s." What?! That was over 400 years ago - the world has gotten a LOT smaller since then. There are Latinos who believe that the U.S. "stole Aztlan" from them (CA, AZ, NM, CO, Utah). They are encouraging more and more immigrants to cross the border and overwhelm our land and system by sheer numbers.

And now that so many jobs are held by illegal immigrants, we're being held hostage by lawbreakers and groups like LULAC, etc. try to justify amnesty for these individuals simply because they are doing "essential jobs." To educate an illegal immigrant child or the child of an illegal immigrant costs the American taxpayer about $100,000 if the child graduates (K-12 schooling). So, a family with just FIVE children costs us HALF A MILLION ... they take a lot more than they are contributing to our economy. I'd be willing to pay MORE to hold these people accountable to the letter of the law.

[Spider]

What's worthless is arguing and reasoning with racists and there lackeys.
you and me see eye to eye on this , but Beerslug is no racist ........ Me and BB dont agree on this issue , niether does me and LABF , and 99.9% of the posters here , but they are not racist , they just want the border closed and laws upheld

[footstepsfrom#27]

you and me see eye to eye on this , but Beerslug is no racist ........ Me and BB dont agree on this issue , niether does me and LABF , and 99.9% of the posters here , but they are not racist , they just want the border closed and laws upheld
Bingo. You and I agree on something...good take.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

What's worthless is arguing and reasoning with racists and there lackeys. So now, since you can't use fact or reference to support your position, you resort to calling me a racist for providing fact and reference (including the original site you referenced) to support mine. Why is that I wonder?
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[errand]

I'm pretty sure Illegals don't register under any party in the U.S.

....yeah, right. so tell us why Ted Kenendy was out there with them speaking on their behalf during their protests?

[errand]

Another fine example of profiling by our police.

Tell me Blueflame...

Should we look harder at any muslims who are traveling into or out of the US?

The illegals here in WNC are the leaders in drug trafficking. You have to figure that if a coyote is gonna risk bringing over a few illegals he might as well also sneak some drugs in as well. Not to mention alot of these poor illegals that el minion weeps for will transport the drugs in order to pay for their passage here.

I believe you libs are prone to saying "don't kill the messenger", just because you hate the message.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

....yeah, right. so tell us why Ted Kenendy was out there with them speaking on their behalf during their protests?
Were you always this ignorant or did this happen along the way somewhere?

-----------------------------------------------------

http://www.cairco.org/pics/pic_bush_mexican_flag_dvd.jpg

[Saddletramp]

:rofl: isnt that easy huh , all summer i have been in the deep south , Heat you wouldnt believe , I seen these illegals working , damn hard I might add .... this is the majority of them , sure some are lazy , drug runners and oh my Gawd some are even Democrats ( shudder) ............ you realy didnt think that cause they are all from mexico , they all behave the same way ?
some bad apples ruin it for everyone I guess
In my current job I am the only white guy out of 40 employees. On the average over the last 3 weeks the temp. has been right at 100 degrees everyday. I can tell you when you work as a production welder you will take all the help (regardless of where they came from) you can get.

[Spider]

In my current job I am the only white guy out of 40 employees. On the average over the last 3 weeks the temp. has been right at 100 degrees everyday. I can tell you when you work as a production welder you will take all the help (regardless of where they came from) you can get.
welder hey ........Looking for work ?
WATCO up here will throw in a woman ........ Paying huge $$'s for welders , making the Huge dumps for those minning trucks ........Say the word

[Spider]

Coal Mines up here begging for Welders .........oil field , Natrual Gas pipelines , you name it .. there is no where enough Welders up here

[Spider]

dont mean to be pushy here , but starting pay for Welders here is 20.00 per hour plus excellent benifits ... unless you go oil field , then it can be up to 35.00 per hour I am told ........ the 20.00 with all bennies is a sure thing though

[Spider]

not to mention we havent had a real winter here in the last 10 years ....... I bet Chicago has been colder then us from Nov on up to may .......
ok so I am pimping Casper ;D .. but we need workers up here bad , not just casper but all of Wyoming ......... just somthing to think about .........

[gunns]

Tell me Blueflame...

Should we look harder at any muslims who are traveling into or out of the US?

The illegals here in WNC are the leaders in drug trafficking. You have to figure that if a coyote is gonna risk bringing over a few illegals he might as well also sneak some drugs in as well. Not to mention alot of these poor illegals that el minion weeps for will transport the drugs in order to pay for their passage here.

I believe you libs are prone to saying "don't kill the messenger", just because you hate the message.

First of all the name is gunns. Second, no matter how you look at it, it is profiling.

I go out to the prison to deliver some assimilation paperwork. There's a sign as you drive in that you have to park in the first lot to have your car searched, NO EXCEPTIONS. So I pull in, flip open my trunk as instructed on the sign and stand by my car. A Mexican family's car is being searched next to mine, they have even pulled out one of the seats. One of the officers, as he's searching their car, looks over at me, has no idea who I am, but I'm white, and says go ahead and go in. Later I see the Mexican family walking to the visitors area. My son in law is pulled over on an average 3 times a month. Never gotten a ticket for anything though. Maybe that's one reason there are so many drugs on the streets, they're targeting the wrong color.

[defenseman]

Bingo. You and I agree on something...good take.

I think we all pretty much want the border closed, and said laws enforced. One of the few issues around here where it's pretty much a majority..dman

[defenseman]

First of all the name is gunns. Second, no matter how you look at it, it is profiling.

I go out to the prison to deliver some assimilation paperwork. There's a sign as you drive in that you have to park in the first lot to have your car searched, NO EXCEPTIONS. So I pull in, flip open my trunk as instructed on the sign and stand by my car. A Mexican family's car is being searched next to mine, they have even pulled out one of the seats. One of the officers, as he's searching their car, looks over at me, has no idea who I am, but I'm white, and says go ahead and go in. Later I see the Mexican family walking to the visitors area. My son in law is pulled over on an average 3 times a month. Never gotten a ticket for anything though. Maybe that's one reason there are so many drugs on the streets, they're targeting the wrong color.

Is targeting ME men as they pass through customs and such profiling also? Even though, nearly all the hard core terrorists groups are muslim men from the ME? Or is it getting the most bang for your buck? Facts are facts, patting down 80 year old grandma's as they fly around the nations airports makes no sense to me for the most part. I'm guessing they do it to appease those who want to ensure we are politically correct. But, it's truly a waste of money and time for the most part...dman

*In addition, my guess is IF we shutdown by some miracle, drug trafficing across the borders, the actions by security personnel you describe may subside. Perhaps, the statistics show copious quantities of illegal drugs are carted across our borders by mexicans? If so, and they are the major suppliers of drugs in this country, how can you just arbritrarily toss that fact out the window for the sake of PC? Again, just words for thought.

[El Minion]

you and me see eye to eye on this , but Beerslug is no racist ........ Me and BB dont agree on this issue , niether does me and LABF , and 99.9% of the posters here , but they are not racist , they just want the border closed and laws upheld

You may believe that and have every reason too, not to question your veracity, but when someone starts posting "reports" from know racist organizations (FAIR) to support there claims, well then the "birds of a feather" euphemism starts taking flight.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You may believe that and have every reason too, not to question your veracity, but when someone starts posting "reports" from know racist organizations (FAIR) to support there claims, well then the "birds of a feather" euphemism starts taking flight. Only by the ignorant that can't actually refute the source's facts. Your insistence on not recognizing and acknowledging other sources sited and facts presented makes clear you're not really interested in factual debate but only promoting the fallacy of the illegal invasion of the country as being "good" for us. So what's your personal stake in that position?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You and I appear to have the same political temperament, disappointing we don't agree on this issue, c'est la vie.

From what I've seen of your takes on this issue (and, I admit, I haven't read them all, so I could be wrong) you don't seem to differentiate between immigration and illegal immigration.

I'm decidedly for the former and decidedly against the latter.

[El Minion]

From what I've seen of your takes on this issue (and, I admit, I haven't read them all, so I could be wrong) you don't seem to differentiate between immigration and illegal immigration.

I'm decidedly for the former and decidedly against the latter.

At the risk of rambling (long day), if a Cuban and Dominican came over the southern border (or any border for that matter) and where apprehended, the Cuban would be allowed to stay but not the Dominican. There actions and motivations where basically the same, they came to America for its opportunity that there mother country didn’t offer. But one is given special treatment because of some political definition that ignores the reality of their immigration and our demand for there labor. It is not a law and order issue with simple-minded solutions of building a wall - didn’t help the East Germans or the Chinese to keep people in or out. I view it as an economic issue with a regulatory solution that the current illegal immigration should be managed and enveloped with the current legal immigration process, because it is not working as it is currently set-up (think Prohibition). I view this as a trade issue, not of goods but of labor. America wants the markets of other countries to be open to American goods, but the other side of that trade coin is also the trade of labor. Illegal and legal immigration is a semantic misnomer, IMO; one immigrant was just more efficient than the other in immigrating.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

At the risk of rambling (long day), if a Cuban and Dominican came over the southern border (or any border for that matter) and where apprehended, the Cuban would be allowed to stay but not the Dominican. Not necessarily true. Only 20,000 per year are allowed U.S. visas but I agree U.S laws should be enforced equally on every border on every ILLEGAL entry into this country.


There actions and motivations where basically the same, they came to America for its opportunity that there mother country didn’t offer. But one is given special treatment because of some political definition that ignores the reality of their immigration and our demand for there labor. It is not a law and order issue with simple-minded solutions of building a wall -
It's exactly a law an order issue. Enforcing the country's laws would stop the invasion immediately.


didn’t help the East Germans or the Chinese to keep people in or out. Neither were being invaded by millions of criminals every year which makes this comparison moot.


I view it as an economic issue with a regulatory solution that the current illegal immigration should be managed and enveloped with the current legal immigration process, because it is not working as it is currently set-up (think Prohibition).
Yep, an economic issue that is draining American taxpayers to the tune of billions every year, shutting down hospitals, lowering wages and causing hardship for millions of American citizens.



I view this as a trade issue, not of goods but of labor. America wants the markets of other countries to be open to American goods, but the other side of that trade coin is also the trade of labor. Illegal and legal immigration is a semantic misnomer, IMO; one immigrant was just more efficient than the other in immigrating.
LOL
Trade issue?
Criminals who enter this country illegally, send their American dollars back home and suck American taxpayer dollars dry while they're are here using everything from healthcare services to free school lunches.

Yeah that is a trade issue, another one we are losing.

You never did answer my question since I showed you that illegals are indeed costing this country billions every year, what's your personal stake in letting them break the law?