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Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 09:23 PM
Like most of you, I've been sitting here listen to the Chief blowhards claim that Larry Johnson is going to run wild this season, run for 2000 yards and all that jazz. I can't speak for the rest of you, but I just have never been that impressed with Larry Johnson. Sure he's a good running back, just something about him doesn't make me afraid of him. I thought I'd take a little initative and breakdown his 2005 performance by studying his performances and the opponets rush defense rankings. Please note that all rush defense rankings are based off of yards surrendered per game.

Lets begin...

Week 1 vs NY Jets: 9 carries 110 yards 2 touchdowns.
Defensive rank: 29th (137 yards per game.)

Week 2 vs. Raiders: 9 carries for 41 yards 1 touchdown.
Defensive rank: 25th (128 yards per game.)

Week 3 vs. Broncos: 8 carries for 13 yards and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 2nd (85 yards per game.) Note: Larry Johnson cost his team a touchdown when he fumbled inside the Chiefs 20 yard line. Denver scored on the next play.

Week 4 vs. Eagles: 7 carries for 34 yards and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 21st (118 yards per game)

Week 5 vs. Redskins: 13 carries for 53 yards
Defensive rank: 13th (105 yards per game)

Week 6 vs. Miami: 23 carries for 93 yards 1 touchdown
Defensive rank: 17th (111 yards per game)

Week 7 vs. Chargers: 6 carries for 55 yards
Defensive rank: 1st (84 yards per game) Note: 46 yards came on a single run

Week 8 vs. Raiders: 22 carries for 107 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 25th (128 yards per game.)

Week 9 vs. Buffalo: 27 carries for 132 yards
Defensive rank: 31st (137 yards per game)

Week 10 vs. Texans: 36 carries for 211 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 32nd (144 yards per game)

Week 11 vs. Patriots: 31 carries for 119 yards 1 touchdown and a fumble
Defensive rank: 8th (99 yards per game) Note: Only averaged 3.8 yards per carry.

Week 12 vs. Denver: 30 carries for 140 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 2nd (85 yards per game.)

Week 13 vs. Dallas: 26 carries for 143 yards 3 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 15th (108 yards per game)

Week 14 vs. Giants: 31 carries for 167 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive Rank: 12th (104 yards per game)

Week 15 vs. Chargers: 32 carries for 131 yards 1 touchdown and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 1st (84 yards per game)

Week 16 vs. Bengals: 26 carries for 201 yards 3 touchdowns and 1 fumble
Defensive Rank: 20th (116 yards per game) Note: A throwaway game for the Bengals, with KC fighting for it's playoff lives.

So what conclusion can we draw from this? Well, lets look at some of the facts. The thing that sticks out the most is that Johnson rushed for 836 yards against teams ranked 20th or worse in rush defense, which accounts for 48% of his rushing yardage. Last year, Johnson faced a top 10 rush defense 5 times, rushing for over 100 yards 3 times, however it should be noted that in 2 of those games he rushed for only 3.8 and 4.1 ypc respectively. Now we've all heard the arguments he didn't get enough carries early on, to which I reply that if he had been effective, he would have gotten the carries. Johnson played well in 2004, and was NOT an unknown commodity.

Now I'm not saying he's not a good running back, and I'm not saying he won't have a good season, but I think the numbers show for themselves that Larry Johnson's numbers are skewed by games against poor rush defenses.

Rocket 7
08-02-2006, 09:25 PM
LJ = overatted

Clockwork Orange
08-02-2006, 09:26 PM
Hoo boy, here we go. ::)

Steve Sewell
08-02-2006, 09:27 PM
uh, oh...I think you just opened pandora's box on the OM

kamakazi_kal
08-02-2006, 09:28 PM
waiting for bobs stat explosion.........

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 09:29 PM
I'm waiting for Bob's reply. I had barely posted the thread and 5 seconds later he was viewing it. LOL

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 09:32 PM
Now we've all heard the arguments he didn't get enough carries early on, to which I reply that if he had been effective, he would have gotten the carries.

Your reply holds little water.

Johnson wasn't starting. He wasn't going to get many carries regardless, because Dick Vermeil was in love with Priest Holmes.

You'd have a point if Larry had faltered against some of the tougher run defenses. He didn't. He's for real.

San Diego's run defense is beastly. And he owned those suckers.

Dukes
08-02-2006, 09:33 PM
Hoo boy, here we go. ::)

My thoughts exactly

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 09:36 PM
I don't care what you say, had he been effective he would have been out on that field getting carries.

He also didn't "own" the Chargers run defense. He was making 4.1 ypc in that game, which is good, but far from "owning" them.

2KBack
08-02-2006, 09:38 PM
I dunno, 4 out of the last 5 games were good defenses and he still got his. I question if he can run 30-40 times a game for an whole season though. He didn't get that many carries the first few weeks, so he was pretty fresh late in the season. I would suspect as a full time starter he will still get good yardage, but 2000 is doubtful.

fdf
08-02-2006, 09:38 PM
Now I'm not saying he's not a good running back, and I'm not saying he won't have a good season, but I think the numbers show for themselves that Larry Johnson's numbers are skewed by games against poor rush defenses.

Actually, I think the better argument is he's a product of his offensive line. Calculate any stat last year from before Roaf came back vs after Roaf came back. With KC's intact OL last year, he ran roughshod. Before that, he was OK.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 09:39 PM
I don't care what you say, had he been effective he would have been out on that field getting carries.

You're wrong. We had this stupid system where Priest got two possessions and Larry would get one. Rinse, wash, repeat. Larry had zero chance of getting more than 8-10 carries.

It didn't allow either running back to reach his full potential. Priest was pitiful.


He also didn't "own" the Chargers run defense. He was making 4.1 ypc in that game, which is good, but far from "owning" them.

OK. So Larry's yards per carry goes down against good run defenses.

Guess what? So does almost every running back across the board. Terrell Davis didn't average 5 yards per carry against the Chiefs in 1997.

I watched that game. Larry was plowing through Chargers like they were little boys. The crowd was chanting his name at the end. It was a dominating performance. They could not stop him. It was a rainy, muddy today, and the field was sloppy. Neither team had much success throwing the ball. It was LJ versus LT and LJ won the day.

RhymesayersDU
08-02-2006, 09:40 PM
I think it's an interesting topic, but this thread can go nowhere but to the Butt with all the flaming that will ensue.

I think you gotta cut LJ some slack early, because him sitting, IMO, was not due to lack of talent. It was still Priest's spot.

I think he's pretty damn good though. We'll see this year how much he lives up to the hype.

Dr. Broncenstein
08-02-2006, 09:40 PM
This thread is retarded... 1700 yds

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 09:41 PM
Actually, I think the better argument is he's a product of his offensive line. Calculate any stat last year from before Roaf came back vs after Roaf came back. With KC's intact OL last year, he ran roughshod. Before that, he was OK.

Larry averaged over five yards per carry when Roaf was out of the lineup.

DomCasual
08-02-2006, 09:41 PM
I think he's the real deal. I'd trade him for any of our current backs - that's for sure.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 09:42 PM
I question if he can run 30-40 times a game for an whole season though.
Did you know the Chiefs traded for Michael Bennett this week?

Larry won't carry it more than 350 times this year.

2KBack
08-02-2006, 09:44 PM
Did you know the Chiefs traded for Michael Bennett this week?

Larry won't carry it more than 350 times this year.

Then 2000 yards is still out of the question

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 09:45 PM
I'll tell ya Bob, there isn't a thing in here to suggest that LJ is any sort of "special" back. Had he been able to light up a legitimate run defense like he did against the crappy ones, then you might have an argument.

Argue what you want, but I stand by it. LJ is a good, but not great runnning back.

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 09:46 PM
I'd trade him for any of our current backs - that's for sure.
Agreed

RhymesayersDU
08-02-2006, 09:46 PM
I think he's the real deal. I'd trade him for any of our current backs - that's for sure.
Except Mike Bell, you mean! ;)

Steve Sewell
08-02-2006, 09:47 PM
Your reply holds little water.

Johnson wasn't starting. He wasn't going to get many carries regardless, because Dick Vermeil was in love with Priest Holmes.

You'd have a point if Larry had faltered against some of the tougher run defenses. He didn't. He's for real.

San Diego's run defense is beastly. And he owned those suckers.

I don't know what you're talking about. This is "owning" a run defense:

September 12, 2004
Kansas City at Denver

Quentin Griffin:
23 Attempts, 156 yards, 6.8 per, 2 TDs

Steve Sewell
08-02-2006, 09:50 PM
You're wrong. We had this stupid system where Priest got two possessions and Larry would get one. Rinse, wash, repeat. Larry had zero chance of getting more than 8-10 carries.

It didn't allow either running back to reach his full potential. Priest was pitiful.



OK. So Larry's yards per carry goes down against good run defenses.

Guess what? So does almost every running back across the board. Terrell Davis didn't average 5 yards per carry against the Chiefs in 1997.

I watched that game. Larry was plowing through Chargers like they were little boys. The crowd was chanting his name at the end. It was a dominating performance. They could not stop him. It was a rainy, muddy today, and the field was sloppy. Neither team had much success throwing the ball. It was LJ versus LT and LJ won the day.

All class, Boob. I'm impressed.

penguintheory
08-02-2006, 09:52 PM
Give it 5 years and it'll be "Larry who?"

I think what people are saying is he's good, real good, but he just isn't very memorable or worthy of "greatness" yet.

Pendejo
08-02-2006, 09:52 PM
I think Larry Johnson is definitely legit.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 09:54 PM
I'll tell ya Bob, there isn't a thing in here to suggest that LJ is any sort of "special" back. .
How does this strike you?

The Chargers had the NFL's no. 1 rush defense.

Here are some running backs that played them, and their respective stats for those games.


Julius Jones - 26 carries, 93 yards, 1 TD

Mike Anderson - 15 carries, 49 yards

Tiki Barber - 15 carries, 60 yards

Cory Dillon - 14 carries, 63 yards, 1 TD

Jerome Bettis - 17 carries, 54 yards, 1 TD

LaMont Jordan - 15 carries, 55 yards

Curtis Martin - 21 carries, 72 yards, 1 TD

Willis McGahee - 10 carries, 39 yards

Ronnie Brown - 11 carries, 30 yards

Edgerrin James - 13 carries, 25 yards

Clinton Portis - 29 carries, 87 yards

Larry Johnson - 32 carries, 131 yards, 1 TD


Now, it seems to me, there are some pretty good running backs on this list.

Elite running backs.

And who is the cock of the walk? Who is the cream of the crop? Who fared better than anyone on this list?

I'll let you decide.

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 09:57 PM
How does this strike you?

The Chargers had the NFL's no. 1 rush defense.

Here are some running backs that played them, and their respective stats for those games.


Julius Jones - 26 carries, 93 yards, 1 TD

Mike Anderson - 15 carries, 49 yards

Tiki Barber - 15 carries, 60 yards

Cory Dillon - 14 carries, 63 yards, 1 TD

Jerome Bettis - 17 carries, 54 yards, 1 TD

LaMont Jordan - 15 carries, 55 yards

Curtis Martin - 21 carries, 72 yards, 1 TD

Willis McGahee - 10 carries, 39 yards

Ronnie Brown - 11 carries, 30 yards

Edgerrin James - 13 carries, 25 yards

Clinton Portis - 29 carries, 87 yards

Larry Johnson - 32 carries, 131 yards, 1 TD


Now, it seems to me, there are some pretty good running backs on this list.

Elite running backs.

And who is the cock of the walk? Who is the cream of the crop? Who fared better than anyone on this list?

I'll let you decide.

No argument there, but you missed my point.

LJ did not "own" a single legitimate rush defense last year. He never once averaged more than 5 yards a carry against a top 10 rush defense.

ward63
08-02-2006, 09:58 PM
Tallented, yet overrated

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 09:58 PM
Tallented, yet overrated

Exactly.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 10:02 PM
Remember the No. 2 run defense last year? Some team called Denver?

Here's rundown.


Ronnie Brown - 22 carries, 57 yards

Ladanian Tomlinson - 19 carries, 92 yards

Fred Taylor - 8 carries, 14 yards

Clinton Portis - 20 carries, 103 yards

Tiki Barber - 19 carries, 86 yards

LaMont Jordan - 14 carries, 48 yards

Curtis Martin - 4 carries, 7 yards

Julius Jones - 20 carries, 55 yards

Larry Johnson - 30 carries, 140 yards


Now, it seems to me, there are some pretty good running backs on this list.

Elite running backs.

And who is the cock of the walk? Who is the cream of the crop? Who fared better than anyone on this list?

I'll let you decide.

ward63
08-02-2006, 10:03 PM
He did start in what week 7? By that time players are starting to wear down, while he's on fresh legs.

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 10:04 PM
Anyways, my argument still stands

a) 48% of his yardage came against horrible run defenses.
b) In the games he rushed for 100 yards, he never averaged more than 4.7 ypc against a top 10 rush defense.

Debate that, Bobo.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 10:04 PM
LJ did not "own" a single legitimate rush defense last year. He never once averaged more than 5 yards a carry against a top 10 rush defense.

Listen very carefully. I am only going to say this once.

Larry Johnson excelled against the No. 1 and the No. 2 run defenses in the NFL last year. He had more successful games against those two run defenses than ANY OTHER RUNNING BACK IN THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

It seems to me, that when one player, out performs ALL OTHER PLAYERS AT HIS POSITION against the TOUGHEST opponents...that maybe...JUST MAYBE...he might be "special."

Then again, maybe I'm f*cking crazy.

Florida_Bronco
08-02-2006, 10:07 PM
Listen very carefully. I am only going to say this once.

Larry Johnson excelled against the No. 1 and the No. 2 run defenses in the NFL last year. He had more successful games against those two run defenses than ANY OTHER RUNNING BACK IN THE NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE.

It seems to me, that when one player, out performs ALL OTHER PLAYERS AT HIS POSITION against the TOUGHEST opponents...that maybe...JUST MAYBE...he might be "special."

Then again, maybe I'm ****ing crazy.

No Bobo, he did not excel. He had 2 good games against those defenses, but 4.1 and 4.7 ypc is hardly excelling.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 10:12 PM
No Bobo, he did not excel. He had 2 good games against those defenses, but 4.1 and 4.7 ypc is hardly excelling.

Ok. Maybe so. I'll grant you that.

But it was still BETTER THAN ANY OTHER RUNNING BACK.


Let me present an analogy.

I am Luke Skywalker.

I am piloting my X-Wing down the trench of the Death Star. This Death Star is widely considered to be IMPREGNABLE. UNDEFEATABLE. It SMASHES it's opponents.

All of my other colleagues, also X-Wing pilots (and Y-Wing pilots), have perished. They were unable to do anything against the defenses of the Death Star.

I blow it the f*ck up.

Who was the best rebel pilot?


A few years later, I'm Luke Skywalker again.

I'm saber fighting with Darth Vader. Darth Vader is widely considered to be one of the toughest opponents in the entire galaxy. He's killed hundreds of Jedi Knights. His name is feared.

I chop his motherf*cking hand off.

Who was the best Jedi Knight?

bcbronc
08-02-2006, 10:15 PM
No argument there, but you missed my point.

LJ did not "own" a single legitimate rush defense last year. He never once averaged more than 5 yards a carry against a top 10 rush defense.


and how many backs DID average over 5 ypc against the top rush defenses? i don't know, and i can't be bothered to check, but those teams are the top teams for a reason.

i have to say, bob showing how much better LJ's stats were against two of the top rush defenses in the league illustrated, to me anyhow, that LJ is one of the best backs in football. granted, he now has to show he can do it as 'the man' that d coordinators have spent the offseason planning for. and he'll have to show he can do it for 16 weeks instead of half a season. but from what he did show, it's pretty hard to knock the guy.

of course him being a great back won't matter much since he has no offensive line to run behind. :yayaya:

Steve Sewell
08-02-2006, 10:18 PM
Dude, most of Darth Vader's Jedi kills were against "younglings". Next time try to qualify that statistic.

Oh, and wasn't Luke at that time the only Jedi alive? Of course he was the best, he was the only one.

Killericon
08-02-2006, 10:18 PM
It's the name. It's a bland name...Not the name of a great running back.

[/sarcasm]

Yes, he's the real deal.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 10:24 PM
Dude, most of Darth Vader's Jedi kills were against "younglings". Next time try to qualify that statistic.

Oh, and wasn't Luke at that time the only Jedi alive? Of course he was the best, he was the only one.

Do you know how many Pro Bowl's Darth Vader went to?

Broncoman13
08-02-2006, 10:26 PM
This thread is retarded... 1700 yds


Quoted for truth... and I agree with the 1700 yards only b/c it looks like they will be without Roaf. With Willie there... 2000 is certainly possible. 1700 and 18 TD's would be my guess. I don't know what FB is trying to prove, but he's not making any points in this matter. LJ is FO REAL!

Steve Sewell
08-02-2006, 10:27 PM
Do you know how many Pro Bowl's Darth Vader went to?

No, but if he did it was because of stats against weak opponents like younglings. Kind of like LJ...the analogy has come full circle on you Bob.

RhymesayersDU
08-02-2006, 10:28 PM
Wow, a thread between Broncos and Chiefs fans.

No flaming, just discussion.

Statistics, calm debate.

And all ruined by Star Wars references.

I hate you so much, Bob.

Kaylore
08-02-2006, 10:29 PM
He's overrated-ness will become apparent without Tony Richardson and Roaf plowing huge holes for him.

Steve Sewell
08-02-2006, 10:30 PM
Wow, a thread between Broncos and Chiefs fans.

No flaming, just discussion.

Statistics, calm debate.

And all ruined by Star Wars references.

I hate you so much, Bob.

I know what you are saying. I seriously couldn't believe it when I first saw his analogy. It was fun turning it around on him, though.

I think it's safe to say that this thread is officially dead.

Good night all!

Broncoman13
08-02-2006, 10:30 PM
Ok. Maybe so. I'll grant you that.

But it was still BETTER THAN ANY OTHER RUNNING BACK.


Let me present an analogy.

I am Luke Skywalker.

I am piloting my X-Wing down the trench of the Death Star. This Death Star is widely considered to be IMPREGNABLE. UNDEFEATABLE. It SMASHES it's opponents.

All of my other colleagues, also X-Wing pilots (and Y-Wing pilots), have perished. They were unable to do anything against the defenses of the Death Star.

I blow it the **** up.

Who was the best rebel pilot?


A few years later, I'm Luke Skywalker again.

I'm saber fighting with Darth Vader. Darth Vader is widely considered to be one of the toughest opponents in the entire galaxy. He's killed hundreds of Jedi Knights. His name is feared.

I chop his mother****ing hand off.

Who was the best Jedi Knight?


OMG, if that rant wasn't the funniest thing I've heard in two years......

If it wasn't so freaking long I'd put that shiat in my sig!

You have got to be working for Best Buy b/c there isn't a bigger "geek" around!

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 10:32 PM
He's overrated-ness will become apparent without Tony Richardson and Roaf plowing huge holes for him.


Fun fact: Larry Johnson averaged over 5 yards per carry without Roaf.

Fun fact #2: Larry Johnson averaged 5.5 yards per carry out of singleback formations.

Broncoman13
08-02-2006, 10:35 PM
Fun fact: Larry Johnson averaged over 5 yards per carry without Roaf.

Fun fact #2: Larry Johnson averaged 5.5 yards per carry out of singleback formations.


Fun Fact #3: You're the biggest idiot to ever post on the Mane.

Fun Fact #4: Luke SkyWalker would've shoved his Light Sabre up your ass!

Fun Fact#5: Darth would have too!

Hotwheelz
08-02-2006, 10:47 PM
Ok. Maybe so. I'll grant you that.

But it was still BETTER THAN ANY OTHER RUNNING BACK.


Let me present an analogy.

I am Luke Skywalker.

I am piloting my X-Wing down the trench of the Death Star. This Death Star is widely considered to be IMPREGNABLE. UNDEFEATABLE. It SMASHES it's opponents.

All of my other colleagues, also X-Wing pilots (and Y-Wing pilots), have perished. They were unable to do anything against the defenses of the Death Star.

I blow it the **** up.

Who was the best rebel pilot?


A few years later, I'm Luke Skywalker again.

I'm saber fighting with Darth Vader. Darth Vader is widely considered to be one of the toughest opponents in the entire galaxy. He's killed hundreds of Jedi Knights. His name is feared.

I chop his mother****ing hand off.

Who was the best Jedi Knight?



LOL LOL LOL LOL

youcandoit1687
08-02-2006, 10:48 PM
Remember the No. 2 run defense last year? Some team called Denver?

Here's rundown.


Ronnie Brown - 22 carries, 57 yards2.59 ypc his first game of his career

Ladanian Tomlinson - 19 carries, 92 yards 4.84 ypc

Fred Taylor - 8 carries, 14 yards hes not in the same class as these guys...

Clinton Portis - 20 carries, 103 yards 5.15 ypc

Tiki Barber - 19 carries, 86 yards 4.52 ypc - oh, and here is a fun fact...T. Barber 29 220 2 55 for a 7.5 ypc average against you guys, sorry

LaMont Jordan - 14 carries, 48 yards 3.42 ypc

Curtis Martin - 4 carries, 7 yards why did you even count this game, it was practically exhibition

Julius Jones - 20 carries, 55 yards 2.75 ypc

Larry Johnson - 30 carries, 140 yards 4.66 ypc


Now, it seems to me, there are some pretty good running backs on this list.

Elite running backs.

And who is the cock of the walk? Who is the cream of the crop? Who fared better than anyone on this list?

I'll let you decide.

Los Broncos
08-02-2006, 10:50 PM
LJ is good, but not 2,000 yards good. By the way, was it the broncos that knocked out holmes in a game with that injury?

Sarcastro
08-02-2006, 11:00 PM
Anyways, my argument still stands

a) 48% of his yardage came against horrible run defenses.
b) In the games he rushed for 100 yards, he never averaged more than 4.7 ypc against a top 10 rush defense.

Debate that, Bobo.

And we all know that the measurement of a truly great RB is if he can average more then 4.7 ypc against elite rush defenses. You win the thread..

youcandoit1687
08-02-2006, 11:08 PM
Remember the No. 2 run defense last year? Some team called Denver?
Here's rundown.

Ladanian Tomlinson - 19 carries, 92 yards 4.84 ypc
Clinton Portis - 20 carries, 103 yards 5.15 ypc
Tiki Barber - 19 carries, 86 yards 4.52 ypc
Larry Johnson - 30 carries, 140 yards[/b] 4.66 ypc

Now, it seems to me, there are some pretty good running backs on this list.
Elite running backs.
And who is the cock of the walk? Who is the cream of the crop? Who fared better than anyone on this list?
I'll let you decide.

hmmm, well, i will go with clinton portis and then LT and then LJ, then barber. ok?

point is your boy is pretty good but florida brought up some great points about his production. the obvious reason for it is that he was freshest, other RBs have had similar late season production(reuben droughns, ricky williams, etc.) they werent to quite the same magnitude but similar.

LJ had his biggest games against houston(32nd against the run in ypg), cincinnatti(20th and played like crap), giants(12th but were injury depleted by that point), etc.

he played great and yes, 9 straight 100 yd games is impressive but id still take LT over LJ

we are also forgetting that you're losing saunders(and yes i know solari was the puppetmaster as an OLine coach, uh huh, right)

plus 3 new blockers...its ok bob, your defense is on the rise. too bad your team is all about ups and downs and cant perform consistently

Kaylore
08-02-2006, 11:11 PM
Actually the irony is that the Chiefs are now going to have to rebuild their offense before the defense gets too old. :rofl:

KCGridironBeast
08-02-2006, 11:18 PM
Anyways, my argument still stands

a) 48% of his yardage came against horrible run defenses.
b) In the games he rushed for 100 yards, he never averaged more than 4.7 ypc against a top 10 rush defense.

Debate that, Bobo.

Actually Bob, feel free to take a short breather. I'll handle this one.

You could make the same argument that you make against Larry Johnson against ANY running back in the NFL. Would you agree that Shaun Alexander is very close to the top of the list when you talk about the best running backs in the game? Well, let's investigate his numbers in the same manner that you did with Johnson:

Week 1 vs. Jaguars - 14 attempts for 73 yards
Defensive Rank - 14th

Week 2 vs. Falcons - 28 attempts for 144 yards
Defensive Rank - 26th

Week 3 vs. Cardinals - 22 attempts for 140 yards
Defensive Rank - 10th

Week 4 vs. Redskins - 20 attempts for 98 yards
Defensive Rank - 13th

Week 5 vs. Rams - 25 attempts for 119 yards
Defensive Rank - 28th

Week 6 vs. Texans - 22 attempts for 141 yards
Defensive Rank - 32nd

Week 7 vs. Cowboys - 21 attempts for 61 yards
Defensive Rank - 15th

Week 9 vs. Cardinals - 23 attempts for 173 yards
Defensive Rank - 10th

Week 10 vs. Rams - 33 attempts for 165 yards
Defensive Rank - 28th

Week 11 vs. 49ers - 24 attempts for 115 yards
Defensive Rank - 18th

Week 12 vs. Giants - 31 attempts for 110 yards
Defensive Rank - 12th

Week 13 vs. Eagles - 19 attempts for 49 yards
Defensive Rank - 21st

Week 14 vs. 49ers - 21 attempts for 108 yards
Defensive Rank - 18th

Week 15 vs. Titans - 26 attempts for 172 yards
Defensive Rank - 22nd

Week 16 vs. Colts - 21 attempts for 139 yards
Defensive Rank - 16th

Week 17 vs. Packers - 20 attempts for 73 yards
Defensive Rank - 23rd

So what conclusion can we draw from this? Well, let's look at some of the facts. First, your argument against Johnson was pathetic. Second, the thing that sticks out the most is that Alexander rushed for 1,086 yards against teams ranked 18th or worse in rush defense, which accounts for 58% of his rushing yardage. Wonga. Last year, Alexander faced a top 9 rush defense EXACTLY ZERO TIMES. Alexander averaged 120 ypg against the bad rush defenses as compared to 113 against the middle of the pack rush defenses (#10-17). In his nine starts of 2005, Johnson averaged 163 ypg against the bad rush defenses as compared to 140 ypg against the two mediocre and three good rush defenses. So you're faulting Johnson for just dominating the good defenses instead of REALLY dominating them like he did the bad rush defenses? Great argument! Please...every running back's numbers are going to be better against the worst run defenses. And yes, every running back boosts his totals against poor run defenses.

There is no doubt that Shaun Alexander is a top 3 running back in football and his numbers appear to be skewed by big totals against bad defenses, so if Larry Johnson's numbers appear to be slightly skewed as well, I still say he's right up there with Alexander among the elite.
To quote you:

"I think the numbers show for themselves that Larry Johnson's numbers are skewed by games against poor rush defenses."

I think the numbers show for themselves that once he became the starter Larry Johnson did just better against the bad rush defenses, but he still did just fine against the good ones.

Case closed (*high fives Bob*).

BroncoMan4ever
08-02-2006, 11:20 PM
Your reply holds little water.

Johnson wasn't starting. He wasn't going to get many carries regardless, because Dick Vermeil was in love with Priest Holmes.

You'd have a point if Larry had faltered against some of the tougher run defenses. He didn't. He's for real.

San Diego's run defense is beastly. And he owned those suckers.

At this point i worry a little about LJ, in my eyes, he and Tony Gonzales are the only real weapons on that offense.
However, LJ doesn't scare me like someone like Shaun Alexander does, simply because he hasn't been a full time starter. I will b better able to give a true opinion on wat i think of him after the season. He's a good back, but i think he is gonna have a rough year this season with his line getting older, and his team having no major receiving weapons.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 11:21 PM
We only have the same receiving weapons we had last year. You know...the league's best tight end and two burners at wide receiver...

Bob's your Information Minister
08-02-2006, 11:24 PM
Case closed (*high fives Bob*).

^5

shakenbake
08-02-2006, 11:28 PM
I heard LJ plays angry, and that he likes to beat his women.

69bronco
08-02-2006, 11:30 PM
Larry Johnson is good.

ward63
08-02-2006, 11:37 PM
We only have the same receiving weapons we had last year. You know...the league's best tight end and two burners at wide receiver...

And a TE that now has to stay into help block now b/c there's no good tackles there anymore and one WR that's saying that he'll quit his SECOND team. Parker's ok...

24champ
08-02-2006, 11:38 PM
At this point i worry a little about LJ, in my eyes, he and Tony Gonzales are the only real weapons on that offense.
However, LJ doesn't scare me like someone like Shaun Alexander does, simply because he hasn't been a full time starter. I will b better able to give a true opinion on wat i think of him after the season. He's a good back, but i think he is gonna have a rough year this season with his line getting older, and his team having no major receiving weapons.
LJ is a good back and he is all the offense has, this year is a test for him since d-cordinators will be gameplanning around him. Stop LJ and you render the chiefs useless.

ward63
08-02-2006, 11:39 PM
OT here- Champ...I must say that's a great pic.

Vegas_Bronco
08-02-2006, 11:43 PM
LJ - real
Chiefs - not

shouldn't this be a thread on the Chumps Planet? How many Chumps threads have we allowed this week - it's getting OLD like so many other things Chiefs.

ZachKC
08-02-2006, 11:53 PM
There isn't a game he has started where he has had less than 100 yards. That is impressive.

Literally nobody has stopped him when he has been "the guy"

ZachKC
08-02-2006, 11:55 PM
Wow, the only way a running back can "own" a defense is average 5 every carry?

What a reach.

I think I woke up my roommates laughing when I read that.

youcandoit1687
08-03-2006, 12:06 AM
Wow, the only way a running back can "own" a defense is average 5 every carry?

What a reach.

I think I woke up my roommates laughing when I read that.

well, i didnt make that point, i merely stated that portis and LT had better games than LJ did against. didnt feel like breaking down the chargers run D either. also deceptive is how bad they played towards the end compared to how they played in the beginning. two totally different teams. definitely an on/off team, consistency wins championships

youcandoit1687
08-03-2006, 12:10 AM
LJ is a good back and he is all the offense has, this year is a test for him since d-cordinators will be gameplanning around him. Stop LJ and you render the chiefs useless.

yep, he also wont be fresher than the Ds like he was last year.

true players can step up from those gameplans aginst them. there will be ups and downs(LT vs. philly last year), but the champ will perform consistently

Bob's your Information Minister
08-03-2006, 12:12 AM
i merely stated that portis and LT had better games against us than LJ did against.

By running for less yards?

youcandoit1687
08-03-2006, 12:19 AM
By running for less yards?

no, by gaining more yards per carry while gaining a good amount of yards(call it the ryan moats factor). they showed that when they touched it, it would go for about 5 yards and that they could do it for 20 carries. LJ did just about as good as them, but id say they played better.

ClevelandBronco
08-03-2006, 01:11 AM
I'm not scared of anything in the AFC West. Not Rivers, not LT, not Gates, and certainly not Moss. And I'm not scared of LJ.

Yet.

But I think I will be. If he can prove that he's durable, he'll be a killer.

My guess for now: He'll be a great player on a poor team, but his presence alone will pull his team up to average. Unfortunately, an average team can put together a game and be a stumbling block to a better team such as the Broncos.

I'd sure rather play a Priest Holmes team than a Larry Johnson team. That's all I'm saying.

fontaine
08-03-2006, 03:36 AM
LJ is a very very good RB in last year's KC offense.

But just like any RB, his success was a function of the offense around him as much as it was his raw talent.

KC's offense did a great job last year in using Gonzo to drag out two defenders (LB + Safety) from his short to intermediate routes while Kennison was consistent enough going on intermediate routes and pulling away the other safety. This meant that once LJ got to the 2nd level, and by god he did all the time when you've got Roaf, Waters, Shields blasting holes open for you, then it was the perfect situation for him.

Johnson didn't have to face LBers plus safeties stacking the box that often because Gonzalez makes the defense cover the entire field so ofcourse LJ was talented enough to make the most of that situation. His true test is going to come this year when Gonzo isn't just allowed to run wild and will undoubtedly have more blocking responsibilities until the new bookend tackles can prove they can handle it on their own.

crazyhorse
08-03-2006, 04:21 AM
I am assuming you have forgotten how LJ broke the back of the Denver Broncos.

That has to be worth something.

He may not have averaged over 5 yards a carry ??? whatever than means, but he definately dominated teams. Denver being one of them.

fontaine
08-03-2006, 04:40 AM
I am assuming you have forgotten how LJ broke the back of the Denver Broncos.

How did we ever manage to finish 13-3 with home field advantage in the playoffs to the AFC Championship after, how did you put it, LJ broke the back of the Broncos?

The only real back breaking going on was KC's season cracking after Terry Freakin' Glenn stomped all over your defense (I mean seriously, Terry Glenn? How could you let her do that to you) and Tiki Barber pissing all over you postseason dreams late in the season to the tune of 220 yards!

I'll give this to you guys. You sure know how to suck in style.

crazyhorse
08-03-2006, 04:44 AM
How did we ever manage to finish 13-3 with home field advantage in the playoffs to the AFC Championship after, how did you put it, LJ broke the back of the Broncos?

By not playing against LJ every week, that's how.

You're not suggesting that LJ didn't beat you into submission, are you?

fontaine
08-03-2006, 04:48 AM
By not playing against LJ every week, that's how.

You're not suggesting that LJ didn't beat you into submission, are you?

Sorry I don't discuss the postseason with playoff virgins like you.

It's too much of a tease and not fair on you.

crazyhorse
08-03-2006, 04:53 AM
Sorry I don't discuss the postseason with playoff virgins like you.

It's too much of a tease.

Uh.........yeah.

I guess we have come to an agreement on the LJ debate.

Florida_Bronco
08-03-2006, 05:44 AM
Last year, Alexander faced a top 9 rush defense EXACTLY ZERO TIMES.

You brought up some points, however this little tidbit creates a problem. He only had 1 game against a top 10 defense, so how can you argue that he wouldn't have produced well against them. All your post did was show that other running backs beat up on weak defenses too.

Gonzo88
08-03-2006, 06:13 AM
We will see in week 2.....

Dukes
08-03-2006, 06:22 AM
I'm just curious, do Bronco fans spam chefplanet the way chef fans do here? I rarely ever visit that cess pool.

ward63
08-03-2006, 06:23 AM
I can't stand Qweef fans at all, so I try and stay away from them OB.

Dedhed
08-03-2006, 06:31 AM
LJ is a very good back. I think he's a consistent 1500yd guy, but he's not going to be the end all RB that the Chiefs think he is. He's not going to be a 2,000 yard rusher, but he's not going to be crippled by the loss of Roaf either.

He won't save the Chiefs D from imploding, and he'll have a shorter shelf life than most NFL RBs because he'll be overworked.

Steve Sewell
08-03-2006, 06:49 AM
And a TE that now has to stay into help block now b/c there's no good tackles there anymore and one WR that's saying that he'll quit his SECOND team. Parker's ok...

If those hack WR don't have time to get open they won't be productive. Parker has a pair of frozen hamburger patties for hands, I don't care how fast he is.

DenverBrit
08-03-2006, 06:51 AM
LJ is a good back, he's on the wrong team.

Just like Bob is on the wrong board.

What a gift of a thread for the stat monkey.

Saulbadguy
08-03-2006, 06:57 AM
Hilarious.

Dartgod
08-03-2006, 06:57 AM
I can't speak for the rest of you, but I just have never been that impressed with Larry Johnson.
:rofl:

Bronco_Beerslug
08-03-2006, 07:01 AM
Now I'm not saying he's not a good running back, and I'm not saying he won't have a good season, but I think the numbers show for themselves that Larry Johnson's numbers are skewed by games against poor rush defenses.
OK, you take Tatum (or Dayne) and I'll take Johnson in the fantasy draft.

Smiling Assassin27
08-03-2006, 07:19 AM
the real deal

cousinal11
08-03-2006, 07:20 AM
I'm definitely eager to see what he does this year without Al Saunders and Herm Edwards as Head Coach.

crazyhorse
08-03-2006, 07:30 AM
You brought up some points, however this little tidbit creates a problem. He only had 1 game against a top 10 defense, so how can you argue that he wouldn't have produced well against them. All your post did was show that other running backs beat up on weak defenses too.

You're getting it somewhat twisted.

He (LJ) did better against good defenses, than did Alexander against poor defenses. Are you saying Alexander would have done better against the better defenses than the poorer defenses?

The bait is decent, but there is so little arguement to support the bait.

Know what I'm sayin'?

NaptownChief
08-03-2006, 07:35 AM
I'm just hoping that Mo Clarrett can get his legal issues cleaned up so we can get a real back like him to replace the joke that is Larry Johnson.

Gonzo88
08-03-2006, 07:37 AM
Let the games begin...Talk / speculation of the value of LJ against other teams (which Defenses ranked or not) will soon be settled....

Just run Angry LJ.

ludo21
08-03-2006, 07:39 AM
Let the games begin...Talk / speculation of the value of LJ against other teams (which Defenses ranked or not) will soon be settled....

Just run Angry LJ.


what else can we do now but talk?

I cant wait for the season tho. As long as we win games, i can care less our rankings.

fontaine
08-03-2006, 07:40 AM
I'm just hoping that Mo Clarrett can get his legal issues cleaned up so we can get a real back like him to replace the joke that is Larry Johnson.

Yeah, he'd fit in great with Worm Edwards new look OL:

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/7014/060729am255ui5.jpg

Hotrod
08-03-2006, 07:41 AM
Holy crap I pretty much passed thru this thread without reading all 4 pages but DAMN...

As much as it pains me to say LJ is flat out a stud period done close the thread.

crazyhorse
08-03-2006, 07:44 AM
Yeah, he'd fit in great with Worm Edwards new look OL:

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/7014/060729am255ui5.jpg

Should be enough to stop the Broncos pass rush.

Steve Sewell
08-03-2006, 07:46 AM
:rofl:

"Your" an idiot? Should be "you're"... What idiot came up with that graphic? Must have been a Chumps fan...

ROYC75
08-03-2006, 07:48 AM
He's no Terrell Davis,Never will be, He's just not that way.

Bronco_Beerslug
08-03-2006, 07:48 AM
Holy crap I pretty much passed thru this thread without reading all 4 pages but DAMN...

As much as it pains me to say LJ is flat out a stud period done close the thread.
Doesn't pain me at all to say how good he is being an NFL fan. I was just hoping they were going to let him go at some point before last year so we could pick up another "troubled player" :)

Steve Sewell
08-03-2006, 07:49 AM
Let the games begin...Talk / speculation of the value of LJ against other teams (which Defenses ranked or not) will soon be settled....

Just run Angry LJ.

I find all this "run angry" crap about LJ comical. We happen to have some pretty angry guys ourselves than can blow people up.

Anyone remember AWils and his demolition of Zac Crockett? Crockett is a pretty huge guy.

I think you may see LJ get "Okoye'd" at Mile High this year.

crazyhorse
08-03-2006, 07:50 AM
"Your" an idiot? Should be "you're"... What idiot came up with that graphic? Must have been a Chumps fan...

Oh hell......

Steve Sewell
08-03-2006, 07:52 AM
what else can we do now but talk?

I cant wait for the season tho. As long as we win games, i can care less our rankings.

Dude, rankings and statistics are EVERYTHING to Chiefs fans. That's all they have to hang their hat on every year. It's basically how they win their July Super Bowl every year.

Hotrod
08-03-2006, 07:52 AM
Doesn't pain me at all to say how good he is being an NFL fan. I was just hoping they were going to let him go at some point before last year so we could pick up another "troubled player" :)

Ya I have to admit Im shocked King Carl and company managed to not screw this one up. As hard as they tried with the diaperboy stuff. I guess even mental midgets get a break once in awhile :giggle:

Steve Sewell
08-03-2006, 07:53 AM
Oh hell......

Yep, just realized it was a joke...I need another cup of coffee this morning.

OrangeShadow
08-03-2006, 07:53 AM
to answer your question,yes he is

Now expecting him to duplicate that torrid pace that was the last half of the 05 season is asking a little much. But does that mean if he falls of a bit that he was overrated? Not in my mind,the fact is hes a good back,i watched him at penn state quite a lot hes got pure talent so we will just have to wait and see.

Steve Sewell
08-03-2006, 07:54 AM
Ya I have to admit Im shocked King Carl and company managed to not screw this one up. As hard as they tried with the diaperboy stuff. I guess even mental midgets get a break once in awhile :giggle:

If I had my druthers, King Carl would be given a lifetime GM contract similar to what Pat B. gave Shanahan. How sweet would that be?

ROYC75
08-03-2006, 07:57 AM
Bottom line is LJ is going to be a pain in DC ass's for sometime. How long that may be is how much he carries the rock.

TD got hammered because he carried it so much, his body gave out before the desire to play did.......... Earl Campbell, Jim Brown, they all got out early because of the punishment they took but knew the desire was there..

Dartgod
08-03-2006, 08:01 AM
Yep, just realized it was a joke...I need another cup of coffee this morning.
Yeah, it's in the Chiefsplanet lexicon. I made it to make fun of the idiots that post there. Turns out I can use it here too.

paine_train
08-03-2006, 08:04 AM
He just another bust.

ROYC75
08-03-2006, 08:07 AM
Yep, just realized it was a joke...I need another cup of coffee this morning.

For the benefit of doubt, we were thinking you were a little slow today.:wave:

BroncoMatt
08-03-2006, 08:10 AM
Bob's arguement makes no sense. Ladies and gentleman, Chewbacca is an 8ft wookie from the planet Kashyyk. Why would an 8ft wookie want to live with 3ft ewoks? I don't know. It does not make sense. What does that have to do with LJ being any good? I don't know. It does not make any sense. If the wookie does not fit then you must aquit!

Steve Sewell
08-03-2006, 08:21 AM
For the benefit of doubt, we were thinking you were a little slow today.:wave:

I've always been under the impression that you Chief fans think I'm slow everyday!

KCGridironBeast
08-03-2006, 08:24 AM
You brought up some points, however this little tidbit creates a problem. He only had 1 game against a top 10 defense, so how can you argue that he wouldn't have produced well against them. All your post did was show that other running backs beat up on weak defenses too.

Exactly. Shaun Alexander is considered a great running back, right? He's at the very least a top three running back in the NFL, right? Yet the majority of those gaudy numbers he put up last year came against BAD RUSH DEFENSES. So if it's okay for Shaun Alexander to run it up against bad rush defenses and still be considered a great back, why can't LJ do the same? Your argument was that LJ got a lot of his runs against bad teams so therefore he's not as good as he's cracked up to be, yet Shaun Alexander does the same thing and is still considered great...

Florida_Bronco
08-03-2006, 08:34 AM
OK, you take Tatum (or Dayne) and I'll take Johnson in the fantasy draft.

What does that have to do with whether or not LJ is over rated? ???

TD got hammered because he carried it so much, his body gave out before the desire to play did.......... Earl Campbell, Jim Brown, they all got out early because of the punishment they took but knew the desire was there..

Thats not exactly true. TD destroyed his knee on a freak play and just never had it after that. It's not like he just stopped being effective.

Either way, I think some of you missed the point I was trying to make. I never meant to imply that LJ is no good, because I think he is a good running back. I think Dedhed said it best when he stated that LJ is the not the be all end all back alot of people think he is. LJ being able to beat up on weak run defenses really makes him look alot better than he is.

It's all gonna come down to what happens on the playing field this year though.

fontaine
08-03-2006, 08:42 AM
Should be enough to stop the Broncos pass rush.

The sad part about this is that it's true!

Our pass rush sucked last year.

Florida_Bronco
08-03-2006, 08:44 AM
Exactly. Shaun Alexander is considered a great running back, right? He's at the very least a top three running back in the NFL, right? Yet the majority of those gaudy numbers he put up last year came against BAD RUSH DEFENSES. So if it's okay for Shaun Alexander to run it up against bad rush defenses and still be considered a great back, why can't LJ do the same? Your argument was that LJ got a lot of his runs against bad teams so therefore he's not as good as he's cracked up to be, yet Shaun Alexander does the same thing and is still considered great...

I'd sure like to see what he did against competent rush defenses, too bad he almost only played bad defenses last year.

Iowanian
08-03-2006, 08:51 AM
He learned it by watching Rod Smith....and whichever teamates punched out Greasy.
I heard LJ plays angry, and that he likes to beat his women.


I think whats not been mentioned is the effect that playing against LJ had on the rush D rankings of several of those teams. Also not mentioned is game situation....grinding out the clock, behind by too much and passing.


reminder again....he DID put up 140 vs Denver. Does that mean Denver BrownCow's Run D sucked balls?

Regardless, this is stupid.

Dartgod
08-03-2006, 09:21 AM
Regardless, this is stupid.
You do know you're talking about a Donkey fan's opinion, right?

In other news, water is wet and the sky is blue...

shakenbake
08-03-2006, 09:48 AM
When is LJ's contract up. I predict that will be an interesting situation. If he has a big year this year, he will want more money. I can't wait till he holds out or demands a trade and chief fans turn on him quicker than they did when he went from diaper boy to his current status.

bearcat2002
08-03-2006, 10:03 AM
Without the excuses and such, it looks downright logical...

Bottom half...

Week 1 vs NY Jets: 9 carries 110 yards 2 touchdowns.
Defensive rank: 29th (137 yards per game.)
Week 2 vs. Raiders: 9 carries for 41 yards 1 touchdown.
Defensive rank: 25th (128 yards per game.)
Week 4 vs. Eagles: 7 carries for 34 yards and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 21st (118 yards per game)
Week 6 vs. Miami: 23 carries for 93 yards 1 touchdown
Defensive rank: 17th (111 yards per game)
Week 8 vs. Raiders: 22 carries for 107 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 25th (128 yards per game.)
Week 9 vs. Buffalo: 27 carries for 132 yards
Defensive rank: 31st (137 yards per game)
Week 10 vs. Texans: 36 carries for 211 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 32nd (144 yards per game)
Week 16 vs. Bengals: 26 carries for 201 yards 3 touchdowns and 1 fumble
Defensive Rank: 20th (116 yards per game) Note: A throwaway game for the Bengals, with KC fighting for it's playoff lives.

929/159 = 5.8 ypc



Top Half...
Week 3 vs. Broncos: 8 carries for 13 yards and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 2nd (85 yards per game.) Note: Larry Johnson cost his team a touchdown when he fumbled inside the Chiefs 20 yard line. Denver scored on the next play.
Week 7 vs. Chargers: 6 carries for 55 yards
Defensive rank: 1st (84 yards per game) Note: 46 yards came on a single run
Week 5 vs. Redskins: 13 carries for 53 yards
Defensive rank: 13th (105 yards per game)
Week 11 vs. Patriots: 31 carries for 119 yards 1 touchdown and a fumble
Defensive rank: 8th (99 yards per game) Note: Only averaged 3.8 yards per carry.
Week 12 vs. Denver: 30 carries for 140 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 2nd (85 yards per game.)
Week 13 vs. Dallas: 26 carries for 143 yards 3 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 15th (108 yards per game)
Week 14 vs. Giants: 31 carries for 167 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive Rank: 12th (104 yards per game)
Week 15 vs. Chargers: 32 carries for 131 yards 1 touchdown and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 1st (84 yards per game)

820/177 = 4.6 ypc


So, what's the problem?

Bob's your Information Minister
08-03-2006, 10:37 AM
We're going to settle this crap once and for all.

I want to know who Florida Bronco thinks is an elite running back. Name one guy.

We'll see how he compares to LJ.

Sarcastro
08-03-2006, 10:49 AM
We're going to settle this crap once and for all.

I want to know who Florida Bronco thinks is an elite running back. Name one guy.

We'll see how he compares to LJ.

I looked at the elite running backs from last season, and Tiki is the only one that I really thought did spectacular against the better rush defenses. He had something like 5.6 ypc against top 15 rush defenses, and he played quite a few. This is mainly because he had a 200+ yard rushing performance against Washington at 8.6 ypc, and he also had a 200+ yard game against KC at 7.6 ypc.

Steve Sewell
08-03-2006, 10:55 AM
Without the excuses and such, it looks downright logical...

Bottom half...

Week 1 vs NY Jets: 9 carries 110 yards 2 touchdowns.
Defensive rank: 29th (137 yards per game.)
Week 2 vs. Raiders: 9 carries for 41 yards 1 touchdown.
Defensive rank: 25th (128 yards per game.)
Week 4 vs. Eagles: 7 carries for 34 yards and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 21st (118 yards per game)
Week 6 vs. Miami: 23 carries for 93 yards 1 touchdown
Defensive rank: 17th (111 yards per game)
Week 8 vs. Raiders: 22 carries for 107 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 25th (128 yards per game.)
Week 9 vs. Buffalo: 27 carries for 132 yards
Defensive rank: 31st (137 yards per game)
Week 10 vs. Texans: 36 carries for 211 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 32nd (144 yards per game)
Week 16 vs. Bengals: 26 carries for 201 yards 3 touchdowns and 1 fumble
Defensive Rank: 20th (116 yards per game) Note: A throwaway game for the Bengals, with KC fighting for it's playoff lives.

929/159 = 5.8 ypc



Top Half...
Week 3 vs. Broncos: 8 carries for 13 yards and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 2nd (85 yards per game.) Note: Larry Johnson cost his team a touchdown when he fumbled inside the Chiefs 20 yard line. Denver scored on the next play.
Week 7 vs. Chargers: 6 carries for 55 yards
Defensive rank: 1st (84 yards per game) Note: 46 yards came on a single run
Week 5 vs. Redskins: 13 carries for 53 yards
Defensive rank: 13th (105 yards per game)
Week 11 vs. Patriots: 31 carries for 119 yards 1 touchdown and a fumble
Defensive rank: 8th (99 yards per game) Note: Only averaged 3.8 yards per carry.
Week 12 vs. Denver: 30 carries for 140 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 2nd (85 yards per game.)
Week 13 vs. Dallas: 26 carries for 143 yards 3 touchdowns
Defensive rank: 15th (108 yards per game)
Week 14 vs. Giants: 31 carries for 167 yards 2 touchdowns
Defensive Rank: 12th (104 yards per game)
Week 15 vs. Chargers: 32 carries for 131 yards 1 touchdown and 1 fumble
Defensive rank: 1st (84 yards per game)

820/177 = 4.6 ypc


So, what's the problem?

You know what? I'd be willing to bet that if we took the Top 10 rushers in the NFL last year and looked at their averages against Defenses ranked 1-15 and 15-32, every single one of them would have a lower average against the higher ranked rush defenses. That's why those defenses are ranked higher...because they're better at stopping the run. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

I'm going to have to take LJ's side on this argument, even though it pains me to do it. He's a pretty damn good back.

I bet I get rep from Bob for this post.

ZachKC
08-03-2006, 11:22 AM
I find this thread is as funny this afternoon as it was last night.

Inkana7
08-04-2006, 12:35 PM
This is simple. Watch film of LJ's long runs. Who's the guy plowing a hole open for LJ to run through? #77.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 12:40 PM
Not always, and as I have said numerous times LJ averaged over 5 yards per carry without Roaf.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 12:41 PM
In fact, LJ's longest run last year came in the Cincinatti game, and he plowed out behind Will Shields.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 12:43 PM
I guess we'll see when the season starts. I don't think he'll run for 1700 yards again, but if I'm wrong, I'll eat my crow.

0SE7EN
08-04-2006, 12:48 PM
As much as I would wish that LJ is overrated, He's not. Most good RB's are a product of their O-line. You can rarely have one without the other. Only Sweetness and Barry Sanders come to mind when I think of Great RB's who didn't have much in front of them most of their careers. Still, TD wouldn't have been as good without his O-line. Alexander either. Good runners usually need good blocking to make plays unless they're very special. Unless Roaf comes back, LJ's numbers will slip some, but if he stays free from injury, he'll still be looking at 1500+.

Now about LJ not starting because he wasn't effective, that's crap. It was a well known fact that Vermil was in love with Priest Holmes and stated publicly and quite often, that Holmes will start when healthy because once they're a starter always a starter unless they get hurt. This is the reason LJ was a little disgruntled and played with a chip on his shoulder...because in some ways, he felt he was just as good if not better than Priest.

I bleed orange and blue, but I don't wear orange colored glasses..LJ is the real deal.

youcandoit1687
08-04-2006, 12:51 PM
I guess we'll see when the season starts. I don't think he'll run for 1700 yards again, but if I'm wrong, I'll eat my crow.

put me OTR for the same prediction

Steve Sewell
08-04-2006, 12:54 PM
Not always, and as I have said numerous times LJ averaged over 5 yards per carry without Roaf.

We'll see if LJ can deal with the wear and tear of a 16 game season. Guys who tend to pound in their running style tend to take their fair share of pounding as well. I think LJ is a great back, but you had better hope that he'll be running at 100% toward the end of the season or it will spell trouble for your O.

Ruben Droughns first 16 game season (and I think he only started 12 games) ended with a whimper because he was so worn down and not accustomed to the pounding that his body took. Now I'm not saying that he's LJ, nor did he have the speed for outside runs like LJ did, but in terms of the way he took on tacklers, I see the same kind of style for LJ.

0SE7EN
08-04-2006, 01:13 PM
Well, look at Priest Holmes. He ran a very physical and punishing style, and now look at him. LJ is a little different though. He's not all about pounding out yards..he knows how to cut and make guys miss too. I think his numbers will slip a little with two of their veteran O-linemen retiring, and I'm sorry, but Kyle Turley is a huge downgrade, but he'll still be productive. LJ is a smart runner.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 01:17 PM
Priest was never about punishing defenders with his body. He took most of the punishment.

LJ is all about pounding ass.

BroncoMatt
08-04-2006, 01:20 PM
LJ is all about pounding ass.


Secret Fantasy?

Steve Sewell
08-04-2006, 01:22 PM
Priest was never about punishing defenders with his body. He took most of the punishment.

LJ is all about pounding ass.

So when you and your boyfriend play "LJ and Priest", you play Priest, huh?

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 01:27 PM
That's a good point.

I went back and looked at it, and LJ averaged 29 carries per game in which he rushed for over 100 yards (Shaun Alexander led the league last year with 23 carries/game). Spread out over 16 games, that's 464 carries, and there is no way any running back can do that.

It'll be very interesting to see if he can still put up monster numbers while not being able to pound on defenses with 29 carries a game.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 01:29 PM
If he maintains his yards per carry, there's no question. It's simple math.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 01:38 PM
If he maintains his yards per carry, there's no question. It's simple math.

That's a pretty big question though. He's also not going to get the luxury of being fresh for the last 9 games.

He could prove me wrong, but I don't see it happening.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 01:39 PM
ROFL!

You're incredible.

Larry's going to get 350 carries...if not a few more. I don't see his average dipping lower than 4.5. He hasn't even reached his full potential yet.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 02:01 PM
ROFL!

You're incredible.

Larry's going to get 350 carries...if not a few more. I don't see his average dipping lower than 4.5. He hasn't even reached his full potential yet.

That's 22 carries a game, which is a fairly large load, but it's not crazy either. I'll be very interested to see what kind of production he has as a 16 game starter getting beat on week in and week out.

As far as potential, I disagree there. He's gonna be 27 years old this year, so he's in his physical prime now. The typical shelf life for an running back is 29-32 years old, so the time is now for him.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 02:02 PM
ROFL!

You're incredible.

Larry's going to get 350 carries...if not a few more. I don't see his average dipping lower than 4.5. He hasn't even reached his full potential yet.

That's 22 carries a game, which is a fairly large load, but it's not crazy either. I'll be very interested to see what kind of production he has as a 16 game starter getting beat on week in and week out. LJ hasn't proven yet that he can handle the load as a 16 game starter, so he may or may not keep up that pace.

As far as potential, I disagree there. He's gonna be 27 years old this year, so he's in his physical prime now. The typical shelf life for an running back is 29-32 years old, so the time is now for him.

youcandoit1687
08-04-2006, 02:12 PM
ROFL!

You're incredible.

Larry's going to get 350 carries...if not a few more. I don't see his average dipping lower than 4.5. He hasn't even reached his full potential yet.


and the argument is whether or not he will get 1700

1700/350 = 4.857 ypc

the only other backs to get that much ypc were warrick dunn, tiki barber, and shaun alexander and none of those are as physical as LJ. so can LJ play physical throughout the year and still average that much ypc? that remains to be seen IMO

The Big E
08-04-2006, 02:25 PM
LJ is a stud, the real deal, or whatever, and I'd take him here in a heartbeat.

DenverBrit
08-04-2006, 04:01 PM
LJ is all about pounding ass.


Bob, first it was Q, now LJ, why don't you just kick that closet door open?

ozomulsion
08-04-2006, 04:08 PM
Well, look at Priest Holmes. He ran a very physical and punishing style, and now look at him. LJ is a little different though. He's not all about pounding out yards..he knows how to cut and make guys miss too. I think his numbers will slip a little with two of their veteran O-linemen retiring, and I'm sorry, but Kyle Turley is a huge downgrade, but he'll still be productive. LJ is a smart runner.

I question if you've ever seen one Chiefs game after reading this part of your post. Just wow

crazyhorse
08-04-2006, 04:13 PM
That's a pretty big question though. He's also not going to get the luxury of being fresh for the last 9 games.

He could prove me wrong, but I don't see it happening.

Uh...will he be fresh for the 1st 9 games???


ROFL!

crazyhorse
08-04-2006, 04:24 PM
and the argument is whether or not he will get 1700

1700/350 = 4.857 ypc

the only other backs to get that much ypc were warrick dunn, tiki barber, and shaun alexander and none of those are as physical as LJ. so can LJ play physical throughout the year and still average that much ypc? that remains to be seen IMO

Uh....if he can run 336 with only 9 starts, I am guessing he can run 350 times in 16 games. That would be 14 more carries than last season and his average would have to drop ove a yard a carry over those extra 14 carries.

Yeah that a real stretch.

boltaneer
08-04-2006, 04:37 PM
I'm very curious to see how LJ does this year without the OTs returning and Richardson gone. I'm one who believes he greatly benefitted from the gigantic holes his o-line provided him. My opinion is he's gonna come down to Earth a bit this year.

Anyway, I'm kind of puzzled by the Bennett trade. He seems like he'd be a good change of pace back but he really doesn't seem to fit the Chief's running attack. If LJ goes down, I think the Chiefs are in big trouble. Of course, I already think they're in big trouble to start with this year. :D

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 04:42 PM
How does Bennett not fit our running attack?

By the way, the only team in big trouble is the Chuggers and "ten-second windup Rivers."

0SE7EN
08-04-2006, 04:44 PM
I question if you've ever seen one Chiefs game after reading this part of your post. Just wow

I've seen plenty, so what's your issue with it?

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 04:45 PM
7EN, I addressed this issue in my post. Priest was never a pounder. LJ is, for sure.

0SE7EN
08-04-2006, 04:47 PM
7EN, I addressed this issue in my post. Priest was never a pounder. LJ is, for sure.

Let me re-phrase that for you. I didn't say LJ doesn't pound out yards and it is nothing against his short game. I said he isn't ALL ABOUT pounding out yards...in other words, he's a complete back that is a smarter runner than priest IMO... He knows when to deal out his hits and knows when to cut and avoid taking the hits as well.

Sorry, but the times I've seen Priest run, he wasn't exactly juking around like a scat back. He didn't exactly seem finess to me, more physical.

Jetmeck
08-04-2006, 04:57 PM
Priest did not get "slobberknocked" very often, he made people miss.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 04:59 PM
OK....see, you just called LJ smarter. That's ridiculous. Priest might have been the smartest RB in the league the last few years.

Priest is all about setting up blocks, cutting and outthinking his opponents. He was a finesse back...easily. That's not to say he couldn't break a tackle, but LJ is far, far more physical. He seeks out contact.

Steve Sewell
08-04-2006, 05:03 PM
OK....see, you just called LJ smarter. That's ridiculous. Priest might have been the smartest RB in the league the last few years.

Priest is all about setting up blocks, cutting and outthinking his opponents. He was a finesse back...easily. That's not to say he couldn't break a tackle, but LJ is far, far more physical. He seeks out contact.

That's not necessarily a good thing, Bob. We'll see if he can last as a physical runner over 16 games. IMO, he'll tail off at the end of the year when the physical toll has been taken.

ozomulsion
08-04-2006, 05:14 PM
I've seen plenty, so what's your issue with it?
Swith your observation of the players and you'er dead on.

boltaneer
08-04-2006, 05:16 PM
How does Bennett not fit our running attack?

By the way, the only team in big trouble is the Chuggers and "ten-second windup Rivers."

Ten second windup? Uh... okay... whatever that means.

Priest and especially LJ are far more physical backs than Bennett is. Bennett has some world class speed but he just can't stay healthy. He showed flashes that he could be dangerous with his speed on the Minnesota turf but I don't see him as being dangerous on the KC field.

LJ seems to be a perfect back for KC. A though, physical runner, who can grind it out in bad weather if he has to.

Maybe Bennett could be a good backup and spell LJ for a few plays a game but I don't see him being able to carry the load if LJ goes down for an extended period of time.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 05:23 PM
Neither do I. I think he will make a good backup though, and the Chiefs need someone to spell LJ.

boltaneer
08-04-2006, 05:28 PM
Neither do I. I think he will make a good backup though, and the Chiefs need someone to spell LJ.

And that's why I said I don't see him as a great fit in KC and more of a change of pace back, unable to be a full time starter if he had to.

Sometimes I think you just argue with people just for the hell of it. You don't even realize what you're arguing about and just talk in circles.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 05:35 PM
Um...I'm not arguing with you. I AGREE with you. Bennett is a good backup, and we needed one. We're screwed if LJ gets hurt for any extended period of time.

youcandoit1687
08-04-2006, 05:47 PM
Uh....if he can run 336 with only 9 starts, I am guessing he can run 350 times in 16 games. That would be 14 more carries than last season and his average would have to drop ove a yard a carry over those extra 14 carries.

Yeah that a real stretch.

the difference is that he will be going against guys who are just as fresh as him, dont have any sores, and are full go. last year he went against guys who had been going for 7 weeks before him(yes he had had limited action but he was in midseason form without the wear and tear). that 7 weeks made a huge defense in just the way he was able to get that extra yard before he went down, or that extra split second faster. i just dont see him having that this year if it is a "level playing field"

bob, try not to scare off the charger posters with your silly phillip rivers insults, ya sound like mock or something.

boltaneer
08-04-2006, 06:08 PM
Um...I'm not arguing with you. I AGREE with you. Bennett is a good backup, and we needed one. We're screwed if LJ gets hurt for any extended period of time.

Cool. Now you've got to explain the ten second windup thing with Rivers. hmmm...

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 06:09 PM
Uh...will he be fresh for the 1st 9 games???

Of course he will be fresh, but they won't be able to feed him the ball 29 times a game or otherwise he'll likely be worn down.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 06:11 PM
And that's why I said I don't see him as a great fit in KC and more of a change of pace back, unable to be a full time starter if he had to.

Sometimes I think you just argue with people just for the hell of it. You don't even realize what you're arguing about and just talk in circles.

I think he's upset because he realized that the Chargers are likely to finish ahead of the Chiefs in the standings this year. :~ohyah!:

azbroncfan
08-04-2006, 06:36 PM
I'll post my first post on this issue. LJ is a good back who is one of the tops in the league. You can't really argue against what he did last year even if he plays for the queefs. If you say he's an average back you are out of reality.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 06:38 PM
Cool. Now you've got to explain the ten second windup thing with Rivers. hmmm...

Why? His unorthodox delivery is going to lead to interceptions.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 06:39 PM
I think he's upset because he realized that the Chargers are likely to finish ahead of the Chiefs in the standings this year. :~ohyah!:

Um, why?

We were a better team last year, and we did more to improve this offseason.

I see no reason why the Chargers would jump ahead of KC this year. Rivers would have to be unbelievably good.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 06:45 PM
I'll post my first post on this issue. LJ is a good back who is one of the tops in the league. You can't really argue against what he did last year even if he plays for the queefs. If you say he's an average back you are out of reality.

Never said he was an average back, just brought up a whole lot of questions about if he can play like that again for a full season. It's ultimately going to be proven on the field.

boltaneer
08-04-2006, 06:49 PM
Um, why?

We were a better team last year, and we did more to improve this offseason.

I see no reason why the Chargers would jump ahead of KC this year. Rivers would have to be unbelievably good.

I'm a big Brees supporter and was disappointed to see him go but that being said, he puts up big stats but he really is only a game manager and not a great QB in the clutch.

From what he did in college, Rivers is that clutch QB. Of course that was college and most likely, he still has a learning curve to face but if he can become a game manager, the offense should be fine. The key is how the defense plays this year.

I don't see where the Chiefs improved this year. They've lost both OTs, their stud FB, one of their stud RBs. Their new RT used to be a good one but he's coming back off a serious injury and hasn't played for a couple of years. Their number one receiver is disgruntled and they've got a number of new coaches with new positions. The only real improvemnt I see is Ty Law and he's no spring chicken. With an older player like that, an key injury is more likely and the chance that he declines increases. I think he's a bit overrated because people only look at his INT numbers and not what he gives up. But that being said, I think he'll do fine this year, barring injury.

That's a lot of potential problems IMO.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 06:58 PM
Adding Law and Tamba Hali will make a huge difference on defense, as will Edwards and the new defensive coaches. We're already seeing a huge difference in training camp. Dick Vermeil's position "coaches" did almost no individual coaching with their player groups.

I don't think we'll be as good offensively, but we'll still average around 23 points a game. Our backup offensive tackle prospects have really done a nice job in camp. Turley in particular has been shockingly good for someone that's been out of the league. The right tackle position appears to be as solid as it was last year. It's not like we had a Pro Bowler playing there.

I think you're in for a rough year with Rivers. He might be good down the road.

kamakazi_kal
08-04-2006, 07:05 PM
Adding Law and Tamba Hali (has not played a single NFL snap) will make a huge difference on defense, as will Edwards and the new defensive coaches. We're already seeing a huge difference in training camp. Dick Vermeil's position "coaches" did almost no individual coaching with their player groups.

I don't think we'll be as good offensively, but we'll still average around 23 points a game. Our backup offensive tackle prospects have really done a nice job in camp. Turley in particular has been shockingly good for someone that's been out of the league. The right tackle position appears to be as solid as it was last year. It's not like we had a Pro Bowler playing there.

lets all just keep in mind that the chiefs offense is doing great against.............THE CHIEFS DEFENSE :thanku:

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 07:20 PM
Kam...post less.

Northman
08-04-2006, 07:43 PM
All i know is i have LJ as my #1 back in Fantasy Football so he better not choke this year.

-Slap-
08-04-2006, 07:45 PM
Power backs have short primes. He'll burn out quickly.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 07:47 PM
Most power backs have short primes. I'm hoping he'll burn out quickly, because god damn does he own the Denver Broncos.

:yayaya:

-Slap-
08-04-2006, 07:49 PM
He'll start to decline sharply right after KC drops a ton of cash on him. Maybe Peterson will be smart enough to deal him a year early, but I doubt it.

Kaylore
08-04-2006, 07:51 PM
Our backup offensive tackle prospects have really done a nice job in camp. Turley in particular has been shockingly good for someone that's been out of the league. The right tackle position appears to be as solid as it was last year. It's not like we had a Pro Bowler playing there.

I thought you guys were getting "mad preassure" Bob. Is the protection good or is the pass rush good?

azbroncfan
08-04-2006, 07:52 PM
Adding Law and Tamba Hali will make a huge difference on defense, as will Edwards and the new defensive coaches. We're already seeing a huge difference in training camp. Dick Vermeil's position "coaches" did almost no individual coaching with their player groups.

I don't think we'll be as good offensively, but we'll still average around 23 points a game. Our backup offensive tackle prospects have really done a nice job in camp. Turley in particular has been shockingly good for someone that's been out of the league. The right tackle position appears to be as solid as it was last year. It's not like we had a Pro Bowler playing there.

I think you're in for a rough year with Rivers. He might be good down the road.

Does this mean the D is better or the O is worse???

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 07:53 PM
I thought you guys were getting "mad preassure" Bob. Is the protection good or is the pass rush good?

I don't know but I do know that Ty Law has been burned by Dante Hall AND Samie Parker. DAMMIT CARL!!!

Kaylore
08-04-2006, 08:02 PM
I don't know but I do know that Ty Law has been burned by Dante Hall AND Samie Parker. DAMMIT CARL!!!
I've talked to a lot of Jets fans and they say he would regularly abandon his responsiblities entirely to ball-hawk during games. New York sucked all year but at least Law went to the pro bowl!:welcome:

kamakazi_kal
08-04-2006, 08:02 PM
I don't know but I do know that Ty Law has been burned by Dante Hall AND Samie Parker. DAMMIT CARL!!!


WOW ..... a scrap of honesty............ i will leave you alone now bob.....

well for the weekend at least

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 08:05 PM
I've talked to a lot of Jets fans and they say he would regularly abandon his responsiblities entirely to ball-hawk during games. New York sucked all year but at least Law went to the pro bowl!:welcome:

New York had the #2 secondary in the league.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 08:05 PM
WOW ..... a scrap of honesty............ i will leave you alone now bob.....

well for the weekend at least

It's called sarcasm. Ty Law is going to force Jake Plummer into early retirement.

kamakazi_kal
08-04-2006, 08:06 PM
New York had the #2 secondary in the league.

thats cause they couldnt stop the run............

Bronco Billy
08-04-2006, 08:07 PM
Bob are you in River Falls for TC?

Kaylore
08-04-2006, 08:12 PM
New York had the #2 secondary in the league.
Actually that skewed. They allowed a high number of completions and once teams got ahead they just ran on them all day because their offense would shoot themselves in the foot sooner or later. That's also why Vilma's tackles were so high.

SoCalBronco
08-04-2006, 08:13 PM
It's called sarcasm. Ty Law is going to force Jake Plummer into early retirement.

I didn't know Jay Cutler changed his name to Ty Law.

DenverBrit
08-04-2006, 08:41 PM
It's called sarcasm. Ty Law is going to force Jake Plummer into early retirement.


Law had no luck against Denver last season. Yeah, I know, different D, but same result.......If law couldn't cover Smith, he's in for a long day against Walker.

azbroncfan
08-04-2006, 08:45 PM
New York had the #2 secondary in the league.
They also had the 3rd worst record in the league. Boob is too caught up in stats, chefs seem to put up decent stats good run D as boob has pointed out but it doesn't add up to wins always. Denver had 29 ranked secondary and had 13 wins, don't know what your getting at boob. Just keep telling yourself the chefs are the next 2000 ravens.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 08:58 PM
Actually that skewed. They allowed a high number of completions.

The Jets allowed 284 completions. One of the lowest marks in the league.

Furthermore their yards per attempt against were low, as were their touchdown passes allowed. Without Law they would have had 11 interceptions as a team.

Yeah, their run defense sucked. How is that Law's fault?

Law is great. You guys are reaching.

DenverBrit
08-04-2006, 09:01 PM
New York had the #2 secondary in the league.


Here's a stat that really matters, Bob:

Denver: 27
NY Jets: 0

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 09:07 PM
Yeah, Ty Law sucks. God.

GreatBronco16
08-04-2006, 09:29 PM
The Jets allowed 284 completions. One of the lowest marks in the league.




The Jets allowed 61.3% of passes to be completed also. One of the worst in the league. Not to mention that they were 3rd in the league on pass attempts against at 463.


I see you're playing the pick and choose stats game again.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 09:31 PM
The Jets allowed 61.3% of passes to be completed also. One of the worst in the league.


I see you're playing the pick and choose stats game again.

You gotta go easy on Bob, the guy never played a down of football in his life.

DenverBrit
08-04-2006, 09:32 PM
Yeah, Ty Law sucks. God.


Where did you read that??

Got a stat? :~ohyah!:

GreatBronco16
08-04-2006, 09:34 PM
Where did you read that??

Got a stat? :~ohyah!:

I bet he is looking for it right this instant.

Hulamau
08-04-2006, 09:42 PM
Bottomline would we trade any of our RBs for him straight up.... you betcha ... in a heart beat!

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 10:33 PM
The Jets allowed 61.3% of passes to be completed also. One of the worst in the league. Not to mention that they were 3rd in the league on pass attempts against at 463.


I see you're playing the pick and choose stats game again.
Not really. If you look at the pass defense rankings, there's about 10 stats that say the Jets had a good pass defense, and one stat that says they had a bad pass defense.

boltaneer
08-04-2006, 10:36 PM
Adding Law and Tamba Hali will make a huge difference on defense, as will Edwards and the new defensive coaches. We're already seeing a huge difference in training camp. Dick Vermeil's position "coaches" did almost no individual coaching with their player groups.

I don't think we'll be as good offensively, but we'll still average around 23 points a game. Our backup offensive tackle prospects have really done a nice job in camp. Turley in particular has been shockingly good for someone that's been out of the league. The right tackle position appears to be as solid as it was last year. It's not like we had a Pro Bowler playing there.

I think you're in for a rough year with Rivers. He might be good down the road.

So how does adding Tamba Hali improve the defense, while Rivers will struggle? I know many consider Rivers a rookie because of his lack of playing time but this is his third year.

Anyway, why does Hali get a pass while Rivers doesn't?

I don't understand your logic.

BTW, I don't know if your comment about Rivers throwing motion is sarcasm or not but his most well known quality is his lighting quick release.

Florida_Bronco
08-04-2006, 10:44 PM
Bottomline would we trade any of our RBs for him straight up.... you betcha ... in a heart beat!

I never once said anything about Denver running backs vs. Larry Johnson.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-04-2006, 10:48 PM
why does Hali get a pass while Rivers doesn't?

I don't understand your logic.

Because defensive ends are more ready to contribute on the pro level as rookies.

A rookie can come in and get 15 sacks in his first year. Do you think Rivers is going to throw 30 touchdowns this year?

It'd be a different story if Hali was getting his ass kicked up in Wisconsin, but he's not. He's everything the Chiefs thought he would be. They're benching an 8-year veteran who has been a starter for years to make him the starter.

boltaneer
08-04-2006, 10:57 PM
Because defensive ends are more ready to contribute on the pro level as rookies.

A rookie can come in and get 15 sacks in his first year. Do you think Rivers is going to throw 30 touchdowns this year?



I don't think Rivers will throw 30 TDs this year but I also think he won't have to.

Marty isn't going to turn him loose. It took him a while before he gained Brees' trust and loosened the chain on him. LT (and hopefully Michael Turner as well) will be carrying the load.

IMO, we're going to see a lot of classic Martyball this year: run the ball, protect the ball, play field position and good defense.

Perhaps when we near the latter part of the season, Rivers will be more comfortable and Marty may open it up a little like the Steelers did with Ben last year in the playoffs. They played quite conservative up until then.

But hey, Rivers could very well crash and burn this year but all reports out of camp is that he is lighting it up and his pinpoint accuracy is really turning heads.

azbroncfan
08-05-2006, 12:14 AM
Because defensive ends are more ready to contribute on the pro level as rookies.

A rookie can come in and get 15 sacks in his first year. Do you think Rivers is going to throw 30 touchdowns this year?

It'd be a different story if Hali was getting his ass kicked up in Wisconsin, but he's not. He's everything the Chiefs thought he would be. They're benching an 8-year veteran who has been a starter for years to make him the starter.
Who has done that recently, Kearse? I'd make a bet now that Hali doesn't break 11. The vet they are benching is a POS so they have nothing to lose anyway.

ClevelandBronco
08-05-2006, 12:22 AM
I don't think Rivers will throw 30 TDs this year but I also think he won't have to.

Marty isn't going to turn him loose. It took him a while before he gained Brees' trust and loosened the chain on him. LT (and hopefully Michael Turner as well) will be carrying the load.

IMO, we're going to see a lot of classic Martyball this year: run the ball, protect the ball, play field position and good defense.

Perhaps when we near the latter part of the season, Rivers will be more comfortable and Marty may open it up a little like the Steelers did with Ben last year in the playoffs. They played quite conservative up until then.

But hey, Rivers could very well crash and burn this year but all reports out of camp is that he is lighting it up and his pinpoint accuracy is really turning heads.

My friend, Marty is the best in the league at assembling a talented team, then breaking the hearts of every one of their fans.

Marty has always, always, been good enough to get a talented team beaten in the playoffs, but he's never been good enough to win.

That'll be the story you'll be reading until he retires or moves on.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-05-2006, 12:26 AM
Who has done that recently, Kearse? I'd make a bet now that Hali doesn't break 11. The vet they are benching is a POS so they have nothing to lose anyway.

Hicks has been a solid starter. He's not spectacular, but he's good at the point of attack and he busts his ass.

I don't know many sacks Hali is going to have, either. I'm honestly a bit concerned about his size.

boltaneer
08-05-2006, 03:34 AM
My friend, Marty is the best in the league at assembling a talented team, then breaking the hearts of every one of their fans.

Marty has always, always, been good enough to get a talented team beaten in the playoffs, but he's never been good enough to win.

That'll be the story you'll be reading until he retires or moves on.

As happened in 2004, I'm already aware of that. 8')

But hopefully, he breaks the curse this year, like Cowher did last year. :thumbsup:

crazyhorse
08-05-2006, 04:39 AM
I never once said anything about Denver running backs vs. Larry Johnson.

How would your fantasy football top 5 backs list look?

Because if LJ is on it, that would make you full of ****.

redrage
08-05-2006, 07:06 AM
Hicks has been a solid starter. He's not spectacular, but he's good at the point of attack and he busts his ass.

I don't know many sacks Hali is going to have, either. I'm honestly a bit concerned about his size.
Hali is nothing but a smaller version of Hicks from what I've seen of him. Good motor, nice guy, but feet of concrete and very average pass rush skills. Most of his sacks will be coverage sacks. Sad to say as a Chiefs fan, but I have absolutely NO expectations that Hali will even approach double digit sacks ever in his career. The explosion, talent and size just isn't there to be top flite DE. He was a reach in the first round. I hope I'm wrong.

Florida_Bronco
08-05-2006, 08:31 AM
How would your fantasy football top 5 backs list look?

Because if LJ is on it, that would make you full of ****.

I've never once in my life played fantasy football and don't have a clue how it works.

Florida_Bronco
08-05-2006, 08:32 AM
Hali is nothing but a smaller version of Hicks from what I've seen of him. Good motor, nice guy, but feet of concrete and very average pass rush skills. Most of his sacks will be coverage sacks. Sad to say as a Chiefs fan, but I have absolutely NO expectations that Hali will even approach double digit sacks ever in his career. The explosion, talent and size just isn't there to be top flite DE. He was a reach in the first round. I hope I'm wrong.

Wow Bobo, now even your fellow Chief fan here isn't homering over Hali. :~ohyah!:

redrage
08-05-2006, 11:05 AM
Wow Bobo, now even your fellow Chief fan here isn't homering over Hali. :~ohyah!:
I'm sorry, I have never seen the talent or explosiveness in Hali that you would expect from a top-end DE. Someone tell me I'm wrong. Fact is no one can. Sure, he's a nice guy. Goes all out with good effort. I just think he'll be so-so. Always have. Not sure what everyone else sees in him.

All last season in camp the coaches and media couldn't stop raving about DJ's athleticism and speed. It was clearly apparent. I haven't heard one peep about Hali other than 'gee, he's such a high character guy" or "he realy puts forth great effort". Well, excuse me, but that doesn't sound as if this guy is going to do squat this year. Good depth. Nothing else.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-05-2006, 11:07 AM
Hali sucks. These reports don't sound like someone that can pass rush at all.


TAMBA HALI vs. KEVIN SAMPSON ... Hali exploded off the line, Sampson established balance and leverage, but Hali flew in very, very low to establish superior leverage, and blasted Sampson right in the chest, with his hands placed right under his pads. Just when Sampson gathered himself to slow the bull rush, Hali whipped out a right-handed club and smacked Sampson on the left shoulder, sending Sampson flying. Hali raced to the QB.


TAMBA HALI vs. JEREMY PARQUET ... Hali repeated his explosion off the line, same leverage and same hand placement, but this time, dude didn't use the club move. Instead, he did a spin move that was so fast, I got dizzy watching it. The other d-linemen said "Woooooooo!!!" I was interviewing Carl Peterson at the moment, and told him what I just saw. Carl said fans don't have a clue what they're in for when they see him play.

Florida_Bronco
08-05-2006, 11:10 AM
Hali sucks. These reports don't sound like someone that can pass rush at all.

Who wrote it, Bobo?

Bob's your Information Minister
08-05-2006, 11:11 AM
Who wrote it, Bobo?

A guy who used to play semi-pro football. Is that "legit" enough for you?

Florida_Bronco
08-05-2006, 11:14 AM
A guy who used to play semi-pro football. Is that "legit" enough for you?

What's his name, Bob?

redrage
08-05-2006, 11:22 AM
Well, maybe it will come to pass, but I'm reading NOTHING (outside of the slanted reporting from Warpaint Illustrated) about Hali in the Star or in any first hand accounts of practice about his pass-rushing ability. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-05-2006, 11:24 AM
What's his name, Bob?

I don't know. He goes by formerdb over at Chiefs Coalition.

Florida_Bronco
08-05-2006, 11:27 AM
I don't know. He goes by formerdb over at Chiefs Coalition.

Gotcha.

youcandoit1687
08-05-2006, 11:30 AM
Hali sucks. These reports don't sound like someone that can pass rush at all.

i told ya that ur OLine had problems

Hali whipped out a right-handed club and smacked Sampson on the left shoulder, sending Sampson flying.

one thing to get beat, another thing to go "flying" when you weigh 312, have leverage, and get tossed by a guy who weighs 275 and can only complete 18 bench reps

Florida_Bronco
08-05-2006, 11:41 AM
i told ya that ur OLine had problems

one thing to get beat, another thing to go "flying" when you weigh 312, have leverage, and get tossed by a guy who weighs 275 and can only complete 18 bench reps

Exactly, a DE is not going to club a lineman and "send him flying" so that's either exagerated or didn't happen. Sounds like a total homer report to me.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-05-2006, 11:49 AM
Yep, Hali sucks.

ozomulsion
08-05-2006, 12:31 PM
Yep, Hali sucks.

The truth shall set you free.

brother love
08-05-2006, 12:43 PM
He is the real deal!
I saw him a lot in person when he was at Penn State.
He was a man among boys there
It starting to look that way in the NFL as well.

Until the Chiefs can stand up and stop somebody on defense he may never get a chance to shine in the playoffs.
That is where greatness is measured.

Bob's your Information Minister
08-05-2006, 01:32 PM
Whatever. He sucks according to this report.


Tamba Hali, according to Arrowhead and Bosskiller was everything I mentioned in earlier reports. They say he left one offensive tackle eating the grass. Hali exploded into the guy, bounced off of him, and went inside. One moment the OT was locked on Hali, the next moment he's grabbing air while falling to his face, kissing grass roots

Florida_Bronco
08-05-2006, 01:59 PM
Whatever. He sucks according to this report.

Who are these people reporting and where are they getting this information?

Bob's your Information Minister
08-05-2006, 02:11 PM
Same guy from before, reporting from the Vikings scrimmage. I'm sure it's all bullcrap. Bunch of damn homers.

Steve Sewell
08-05-2006, 02:27 PM
A guy who used to play semi-pro football. Is that "legit" enough for you?

I could probably play semi-pro football right now. Pretty much anyone who stays in shape and played in HS can. They get paid like $200 a game...

So my answer would be no...

Steve Sewell
08-05-2006, 02:29 PM
Hali sucks. These reports don't sound like someone that can pass rush at all.

Those are from the homer report...totally bogus.

Steve Sewell
08-05-2006, 02:39 PM
Same guy from before, reporting from the Vikings scrimmage. I'm sure it's all bullcrap. Bunch of damn homers.

Homer reports are classified that way because the report contains all positives and no negatives whatsoever. By reading you get the feeling that nothing is going wrong, which couldn't possibly be true. It gives the impression to the reader that the writer is overstating the positives because of this. Pretty easy concept to understand, unless you are a homer yourself...then delusions run wild(see Bob) LOL

redrage
08-05-2006, 03:41 PM
Homer reports are classified that way because the report contains all positives and no negatives whatsoever. By reading you get the feeling that nothing is going wrong, which couldn't possibly be true. It gives the impression to the reader that the writer is overstating the positives because of this. Pretty easy concept to understand, unless you are a homer yourself...then delusions run wild(see Bob) LOL
An accurate description of nearly every Warpaint Illustrated article.

SNR_Chief
08-06-2006, 11:31 PM
If LJ gets injured, we'll just put Rich Scanlon back there.

Either way, teams will get get ass-****ed by our running backs

ClevelandBronco
08-06-2006, 11:40 PM
If LJ gets injured, we'll just put Rich Scanlon back there.

Either way, teams will get get ass-****ed by our running backs

If LJ gets injured -- and maybe we should just say, "When LJ gets worn down from not knowing how to get low and use his shoulders when he's running," -- Scanlon may get his chance to either stack asses or get his own ass crushed.

Guess which possibility I'd bet on.

daniel80111
08-07-2006, 12:37 AM
Anyone that draws comparisons to Eric Dickerson in my mind deserves to be the real deal. LJ is comparably the best runner in the NFL. You know he's special in the way he finishes his runs. People talk about his line all the time like no one else has a great offensive line. His line is amazing, but he still finds holes on his own and has a phenomenal combination of strength and speed.

Steve Sewell
10-25-2006, 07:55 AM
Since there are a ton of Chief ****-tards polluting the board right now, I figured this would be a good time to re-visit Nostradamus...err...Florida Bronco's thread on Larry Johnson.

Dedhed
10-25-2006, 08:29 AM
LJ is a very good back, but not all he was cracked up to be after his performance last year.

azbroncfan
10-25-2006, 08:42 AM
Yes he is a very good back who is a very good reciever too. People here who say Tatum is better a complete homers and just won't give LJ credit because he plays in mulletville. D's stack KC and make Huard try and beat them.

Master___Pain
10-25-2006, 08:57 AM
D's stack KC and make Huard try and beat them.

As opposed to how D's play the broncos? :kiddingme

WoodMan
10-25-2006, 09:00 AM
Actually, I think the better argument is he's a product of his offensive line. Calculate any stat last year from before Roaf came back vs after Roaf came back. With KC's intact OL last year, he ran roughshod. Before that, he was OK.

Spoken for Truth. Comparing backs is difficult at best. I have to laugh when prople here compare TD and TBell. Both ran behind completely different lines and Elways threat to pass was truly a weapon to be feared.

azbroncfan
10-25-2006, 09:02 AM
As opposed to how D's play the broncos? :kiddingme

How many times do you see Tatum break 5, 6, or 7 tackles then score. Not too often. LJ is a top back in the league regardless of stats. Denver's system always puts up high Yards per carry whoever the back is. Tatum is having a great year but has a way to go to be considered a top tier back. LJ would put up huge numbers in denver.

toad
10-25-2006, 09:02 AM
LJ's certainly among the best backs in the NFL.

He's lost a HOF offensive lineman and one of the games best fullbacks; due to Green's injury he's playing against defenses who stack/plan just for him and can get by with less respect for the passing game.

All this and he's still putting up solid numbers.

He's a player...as much as I hate to say it!

Master___Pain
10-25-2006, 09:08 AM
How many times do you see Tatum break 5, 6, or 7 tackles then score. Not too often. LJ is a top back in the league regardless of stats. Denver's system always puts up high Yards per carry whoever the back is. Tatum is having a great year but has a way to go to be considered a top tier back. LJ would put up huge numbers in denver.

Sorry for the confusion, I was not bashing LJ but rather praising Tatum. People want to bang on him for getting tough yards or not being much of a receiving threat, etc. Bottom line is Tatum leads the AFC in rushing right now and has gained the tough yards. Once he mixes in some of those long runs he's known for he'll be putting up even better numbers and helping in opening the offense. No doubt LJ would put up huge numbers here.

BTW, how many times do you see ANY NFL RB not names Earl Campbell or Walter Payton routinely break 5, 6, or 7 and then score?

Florida_Bronco
10-25-2006, 11:46 AM
LJ's certainly among the best backs in the NFL.

He's lost a HOF offensive lineman and one of the games best fullbacks; due to Green's injury he's playing against defenses who stack/plan just for him and can get by with less respect for the passing game.

All this and he's still putting up solid numbers.

He's a player...as much as I hate to say it!

LJ still has one of the best interior lines in the NFL, where he makes most of his runs. Huard is also a much better QB than he's given credit for.

That being said, LJ certainly is a good back, but he's not playing that well this year. I seriously doubt you'll ever see the 2005 Larry Johnson again in a prolonged stretch.

Also worth noting is that he's at the end, or near the end of his physical prime right now as he'll be 28 next season. Most backs start to really tail off at 30, especially power backs like LJ.

Florida_Bronco
10-25-2006, 11:48 AM
Since there are a ton of Chief ****-tards polluting the board right now, I figured this would be a good time to re-visit Nostradamus...err...Florida Bronco's thread on Larry Johnson.

Thanks bro, but it wasn't really going out on a limb to suggest LJ would not be as productive as a 16 game starter.

Dedhed
10-25-2006, 11:50 AM
If you had the choice and took Tatum over LJ, you'd be a moron.

Florida_Bronco
10-25-2006, 11:59 AM
If you had the choice and took Tatum over LJ, you'd be a moron.

What's Tatum Bell got to do with this conversation, honestly? ??? Absolutely nothing. Even if (and I did say if) I took LJ over Tatum, that does not change the type of player or production LJ has done so far.

This thread was brought up to discuss Larry Johnson, not anyone else and/or how they compare to LJ.

Jetmeck
10-25-2006, 12:08 PM
Yes he is a very good back who is a very good reciever too. People here who say Tatum is better a complete homers and just won't give LJ credit because he plays in mulletville. D's stack KC and make Huard try and beat them.


**** LJ, he beat down tired defenses last year because he was fresh from riding the pine.

You don't think TATUM has seen the line stacked because
they want Plummer to beat them ?


Yet TATUM is way ahead of LJ in rushing and when he gets back to ripping off big chunks of yardage he definitely will be every bit as good as LJ because he already gets the tough yards.

Dedhed
10-25-2006, 12:16 PM
What's Tatum Bell got to do with this conversation, honestly? ??? Absolutely nothing. Even if (and I did say if) I took LJ over Tatum, that does not change the type of player or production LJ has done so far.

This thread was brought up to discuss Larry Johnson, not anyone else and/or how they compare to LJ.

I wasn't the first to bring up Tatum.

azbroncfan
10-25-2006, 12:23 PM
]**** LJ, he beat down tired defenses last year because he was fresh from riding the pine.[/B]

You don't think TATUM has seen the line stacked because
they want Plummer to beat them ?


Yet TATUM is way ahead of LJ in rushing and when he gets back to ripping off big chunks of yardage he definitely will be every bit as good as LJ because he already gets the tough yards.

What RB faced fully charged D's last year??? Every RB faced similar rested D's. Your a homer if you say Tatum is as good as LJ. He isn't as tough, doesn't catch the ball as well, scored a fraction of the TD's. I'm not going to say he sucks because he plays for the chefs.

Bob's your Information Minister
10-25-2006, 12:29 PM
Florida Bronco was wrong. LJ is currently third in the NFL in yards from scrimmage. Yeah, his yards per carry is down. That's because our freaking QB got hurt! Teams have been able to stack the box with abandon.

Florida_Bronco
10-25-2006, 12:38 PM
Florida Bronco was wrong. LJ is currently third in the NFL in yards from scrimmage. Yeah, his yards per carry is down. That's because our freaking QB got hurt! Teams have been able to stack the box with abandon.

I was not wrong...LJ has looked nothing like the LJ from 2005.

Dedhed
10-25-2006, 12:42 PM
Florida Bronco was wrong. LJ is currently third in the NFL in yards from scrimmage. Yeah, his yards per carry is down. That's because our freaking QB got hurt! Teams have been able to stack the box with abandon.
LJ has had better QB play to support him than Tatum. As sad as that is.