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W*GS
07-26-2006, 09:54 AM
Rocky Mountain News

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/energy/article/0,2777,DRMN_23914_4870218,00.html

Operating margins manage to climb at accelerating clip

By Jeff Donn, Associated Press
July 26, 2006

While U.S. oil companies blame the global oil market for high gasoline prices, an analysis of pricing suggests it's not so simple: The run-up at the pump also comes from domestic refining, largely controlled by Big Oil.

In consultation with several economists, The Associated Press examined pricing trends since 1999, the start for the modern era of pricier gasoline. It found evidence that:

• The portion of gas prices tied to refining has ballooned all on its own, apart from oil.

• The suspicion of frustrated drivers is correct: After upward spikes, the price of gasoline drops more slowly than the price of oil - and someone pockets the difference.

The country's average price for self-serve regular gas climbed to a record high at just above $3 a gallon in this month, according to the Lundberg Survey.

Crude oil accounts for just under half the price of gasoline, the government says. And oil prices are subject partly to supply decisions of foreign oil powers and stiff demand in Europe and Asia.

However, many Americans remain dubious, even contemptuous, of industry claims that oil companies have little control over prices.

A big chunk of gas prices - almost a fifth - pays refiners who make gasoline from oil, and America's refineries have been increasing their prices, too.

Charges of refineries can be detected in what's known as their margin - the difference between what they pay for crude oil and what they collect for the gas they refine. Service station costs and taxes add to the final retail price of gas.

In a competitive market, when raw material gets more expensive, margins typically shrink, economists say. Not so in the oil business these days. Refiners have somehow managed to fatten their margins through years of rising oil costs.

Since 1999, their average margin has jumped by 85 percent, reaching 43 cents for June, according to AP's analysis of daily data from the New York Mercantile Exchange. That margin increased by just 20 percent in the seven preceding years.

Rayola Dougher, who oversees market issues for the American Petroleum Institute, says today's margins are helping refiners bounce back from leaner times of the 1990s.

"They're still as a sector struggling, but certainly the last few years have been looking good," she acknowledges.

Refining groups say they are doing their best to bolster supplies, which would ease price pressure. The industry has announced plans to expand domestic refining capacity by at least 8 percent over several years.

In fairness, the margin rise hasn't been all gravy for refiners.

Refining costs have escalated from environmental mandates, such as special gas blends mandated in particular places. Wild price fluctuations and hurricanes have added risk to business projects.

But refining margins also reflect profit. Some economists suspect that refiners have intentionally bottled up supply to buoy prices, margins and ultimately profits.

"It's simple economics," says Severin Borenstein, director of the University of California Energy Institute. "They (refiners) understand that putting more supply on the market drives the price down."

Bob Slaughter, president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association, blames high gas prices on high oil prices, "which are frankly out of our control" - not decisions by refiners to hold back on gas.

Why wouldn't other refiners ramp up their own output and claim a bigger slice of demand? That has become harder to do, as big refiners have built up market muscle through mergers.

There's another way for refiners to fatten their take: Once prices are up, keep them there.

An examination of gasoline and oil prices shows this tendency: Gas prices shoot up along with oil's but decline slowly, lagging drops in crude prices.

The AP analysis looked at weekly federal pricing data since September 1999. It found that a gallon of retail gas rose an average of 6 cents for a 10-cent rise in oil, but dropped only 4 cents for a 10-cent decline in oil - suggesting that gas temporarily resisted downward shifts more strongly than oil.

Refining groups suggest that gas stations may be offsetting losses they suffered earlier.

On the other hand, gas stations - backed by some market studies - say their skinny margins are hard to pad.

Then who would pocket from the lag in price decline? Economists suspect it's more likely the businesses that set wholesale prices charged to gas stations: the refiners.

Copyright 2006, Rocky Mountain News. All Rights Reserved.

Spider
07-26-2006, 10:07 AM
Rocky Mountain News

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/energy/article/0,2777,DRMN_23914_4870218,00.html

Operating margins manage to climb at accelerating clip

By Jeff Donn, Associated Press
July 26, 2006

While U.S. oil companies blame the global oil market for high gasoline prices, an analysis of pricing suggests it's not so simple: The run-up at the pump also comes from domestic refining, largely controlled by Big Oil.

In consultation with several economists, The Associated Press examined pricing trends since 1999, the start for the modern era of pricier gasoline. It found evidence that:

• The portion of gas prices tied to refining has ballooned all on its own, apart from oil.

• The suspicion of frustrated drivers is correct: After upward spikes, the price of gasoline drops more slowly than the price of oil - and someone pockets the difference.

The country's average price for self-serve regular gas climbed to a record high at just above $3 a gallon in this month, according to the Lundberg Survey.

Crude oil accounts for just under half the price of gasoline, the government says. And oil prices are subject partly to supply decisions of foreign oil powers and stiff demand in Europe and Asia.

However, many Americans remain dubious, even contemptuous, of industry claims that oil companies have little control over prices.

A big chunk of gas prices - almost a fifth - pays refiners who make gasoline from oil, and America's refineries have been increasing their prices, too.

Charges of refineries can be detected in what's known as their margin - the difference between what they pay for crude oil and what they collect for the gas they refine. Service station costs and taxes add to the final retail price of gas.

In a competitive market, when raw material gets more expensive, margins typically shrink, economists say. Not so in the oil business these days. Refiners have somehow managed to fatten their margins through years of rising oil costs.

Since 1999, their average margin has jumped by 85 percent, reaching 43 cents for June, according to AP's analysis of daily data from the New York Mercantile Exchange. That margin increased by just 20 percent in the seven preceding years.

Rayola Dougher, who oversees market issues for the American Petroleum Institute, says today's margins are helping refiners bounce back from leaner times of the 1990s.

"They're still as a sector struggling, but certainly the last few years have been looking good," she acknowledges.

Refining groups say they are doing their best to bolster supplies, which would ease price pressure. The industry has announced plans to expand domestic refining capacity by at least 8 percent over several years.

In fairness, the margin rise hasn't been all gravy for refiners.

Refining costs have escalated from environmental mandates, such as special gas blends mandated in particular places. Wild price fluctuations and hurricanes have added risk to business projects.

But refining margins also reflect profit. Some economists suspect that refiners have intentionally bottled up supply to buoy prices, margins and ultimately profits.

"It's simple economics," says Severin Borenstein, director of the University of California Energy Institute. "They (refiners) understand that putting more supply on the market drives the price down."

Bob Slaughter, president of the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association, blames high gas prices on high oil prices, "which are frankly out of our control" - not decisions by refiners to hold back on gas.

Why wouldn't other refiners ramp up their own output and claim a bigger slice of demand? That has become harder to do, as big refiners have built up market muscle through mergers.

There's another way for refiners to fatten their take: Once prices are up, keep them there.

An examination of gasoline and oil prices shows this tendency: Gas prices shoot up along with oil's but decline slowly, lagging drops in crude prices.

The AP analysis looked at weekly federal pricing data since September 1999. It found that a gallon of retail gas rose an average of 6 cents for a 10-cent rise in oil, but dropped only 4 cents for a 10-cent decline in oil - suggesting that gas temporarily resisted downward shifts more strongly than oil.

Refining groups suggest that gas stations may be offsetting losses they suffered earlier.

On the other hand, gas stations - backed by some market studies - say their skinny margins are hard to pad.

Then who would pocket from the lag in price decline? Economists suspect it's more likely the businesses that set wholesale prices charged to gas stations: the refiners.

Copyright 2006, Rocky Mountain News. All Rights Reserved.

remeber what I was saying about Production 85% vs 95 % ?
you came up with that little Chart ?
here is another point Big oil is controling the flow of oil into refineries ....... I think both refineries and big oil are to blame ....... they be in Cahoots ......

alkemical
07-26-2006, 10:37 AM
does anyone thing the major oil companies pay $70+ dollars on a barrel of crude?

Spider
07-26-2006, 10:45 AM
does anyone thing the major oil companies pay $70+ dollars on a barrel of crude?
nope and thats what has alot of people pissed off , for example go fill your car , that gas in the underground tanks right now was probably priced @ 53.00 a barrell , but oil future traders run up the price , oil companys now say hey our oil is worth 80.00 per barrell so thats what they charge , Oil Refineries say hey we wont take in in the butt on this , and they raise thier prices , boom you see the result right away at the pump ....... it is all based on future prices ..... but when the price of crude goes down it takes weeks for us to see at the pump ..... And some say there is no price gouging ......

alkemical
07-26-2006, 11:25 AM
ya know with BP getting caught fixing the propane market - why is it a suprise that this happens....

Spider
07-26-2006, 11:27 AM
ya know with BP getting caught fixing the propane market - why is it a suprise that this happens....
Idont know , but we both know oil comapnies are not paying the price that oil is trading at , but yet we are paying the higher price ..... BP screwed up , there is enough natural gas in Wyoming t osupport America for years , that not including whats in Utah a state that has bigger reserves ......

alkemical
07-26-2006, 11:30 AM
check out some stuff on abiotic oil - it's a theory that the earth 'makes' oil - some stuff really makes me wonder......

TailgateNut
07-26-2006, 11:34 AM
I've always wondered how I can put 24 Gals of fuel in my truck when it's not empty and supposedly has a 22 Gal tank???

Spider
07-26-2006, 11:39 AM
I've always wondered how I can put 24 Gals of fuel in my truck when it's not empty and supposedly has a 22 Gal tank???
it is that compressed gas you buy ;D

Rascal
07-26-2006, 11:57 AM
I've always wondered how I can put 24 Gals of fuel in my truck when it's not empty and supposedly has a 22 Gal tank???

While you were filling I tapped into your gas tank and took out 8 gallons.

Spider
07-26-2006, 12:07 PM
While you were filling I tapped into your gas tank and took out 8 gallons.
hehehehe , clue me in next time ;D
but I carry 240 gallons of fuel I try not to let my tanks fall below half right around 500+ miles Iam allowed 600.00 per day for fuel ...... Ijust got my settlement papers for last month ( wel la copy of them now , they belong to my brother , I had ,2,400.00 in fuel sur charge , I only used 1,785.37 in fuel ....... Pretty happy about that ........but while i am bragging about my driving skills , you guys pay for that , and you dont get 1 red cent back ....... If anyone should be thrilled about high Gas prices it should be me ..... but I am not greedy ....

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-26-2006, 04:37 PM
remeber what I was saying about Production 85% vs 95 % ?
you came up with that little Chart ?
here is another point Big oil is controling the flow of oil into refineries ....... I think both refineries and big oil are to blame ....... they be in Cahoots ......

Time and time again, these companies have been caught red-handed deliberately limiting refining capacity in order to manipulate price - yet Rehab Rush and his legions of clones on the radical right continue to blame the environmentalists.

fdf
07-26-2006, 04:47 PM
In a competitive market, when raw material gets more expensive, margins typically shrink, economists say. Not so in the oil business these days. Refiners have somehow managed to fatten their margins through years of rising oil costs.

You have a good point. The refinery market is not competitive. It is yet another example of an unholy alliance between government regulators and large businesses. The EPA has waged war on new refinery capacity for the past 20 years by making it very very expensive to build new capacity or to improve existing refineries. The large oil companies realize this is to their advantage so they whine, but not very hard. High entry costs created by the government make it almost impossible for new competition to enter the market. Result, a very non-competitive market in refineries.

This works the same way the FDA and the large pharmaceuticals work. The FDA makes it so expensive to get a drug to market that little guys have to license Eli Lilly, Astrazeneca etc in order to get the capital to jump thru the FDA's hoops. It limits the competition.

In both cases, the solution is for the government to butt out of a large part of its regulatory scheme and allow new entry to the market. Ain't gonna happen. The regulators like the power. The companies like the money and the stability. The congressmen who pass the laws the regulators operate under like the campaign contributions from folks trying to influence the laws.

Rohirrim
07-27-2006, 07:05 AM
Meanwhile, oil company profits soar!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14056592/

Bronco_Beerslug
07-27-2006, 07:11 AM
Meanwhile, oil company profits soar!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14056592/
Yep, the oil cartel that runs this country has no interest whatsoever in building more refineries, why should they?

---------------------------------------------------------
Exxon Mobil 2Q profit jumps 36 percent
IRVING, Texas - Exxon Mobil Corp. said Thursday it earned $10.36 billion in the second quarter, the second largest quarterly profit ever recorded by a publicly traded U.S. company.

The earnings figure was 36 percent above the profit it reported a year ago. High oil prices helped boost its revenue by 12 percent to a level just short of a quarterly record.

Exxon Mobil's report comes a day after another large U.S. oil company, ConocoPhillips, said it earned more than $5 billion in the quarter and at a time when many drivers in the U.S. are paying $3 for a gallon of gas — increasing the likelihood of further political backlash in Washington.

Exxon Mobil, the world's largest oil company by market capitalization, said earnings amounted to $1.72 per share in the April-June quarter compared with a profit of $7.64 billion, or $1.20 per share, a year ago.
CONT (http://tinyurl.com/p9qaf)

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
07-27-2006, 05:10 PM
Meanwhile, oil company profits soar!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14056592/

But the fact that we have two oil men in the WH who enlisted Ken Lay to write our energy policy in secret is just a coincidence, don'tcha know?

;)

W*GS
07-27-2006, 07:07 PM
"When buying and selling are legislated, the first things bought and sold are legislators." - P. J. O'Rourke