U.S. Accused of Kidnappings in Iraq

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Geeeezus, stooping to the same level as these radical religious scumbags really ought to prove our humanity and respect for human rights to the rest of the world!

----------------------------------------------------
U.S. accused of kidnappings in Iraq
Congress demands that the Pentagon release documents that could show U.S. forces kidnapped family members of terror suspects.
By Mark Benjamin

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has until 5 p.m. Friday to hand over a raft of documents to Congress that might shed new light on detainee abuse in Iraq. The documents could substantiate little-known allegations that U.S. forces have tried to break terror suspects by kidnapping and mistreating their family members.


http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/14/kidnap/story.jpg
Photo: Reuters/Tim Chong
U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld

It now appears that kidnapping, scarcely covered by the media, and absent in the major military investigations of detainee abuse, may have been systematically employed by U.S. troops. Salon has obtained Army documents that show several cases where U.S. forces abducted terror suspects’ families. After he was thrown in prison, Cpl. Charles Graner, the alleged ringleader at Abu Ghraib, told investigators the military routinely kidnapped family members to force suspects to turn themselves in.

A House subcommittee led by Connecticut Republican Christopher Shays took the unusual step last month of issuing Rumsfeld a subpoena for the documents after months of stonewalling by the Pentagon. Shays had requested the documents in a March 7 letter. "There was no response" to the letter, a frustrated Shays told Salon. "We are not going to back off this."

The subpoena demands that the Pentagon turn over documents about apparent retribution by the military against Army Spc. Samuel Provance, a whistle-blower, who sought to expose abuse at the infamous prison by talking to military investigators and the press. Following his revelations, the Army demoted Provance from sergeant and revoked his security clearance.

The subpoena also includes a separate demand, at the behest of Government Reform Committee Ranking Member Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., for any documents that might show that U.S. forces were systematically detaining family members of suspects at Abu Ghraib, and mistreating them to force suspects to talk.

In a hearing before Shays' Government Reform subcommittee last February, Provance testified that the Army had retaliated against him. Provance also made the disturbing allegation that interrogators broke an Iraqi general, Hamid Zabar, by imprisoning and abusing his frail 16-year-old son. Waxman was shocked. "Do you think this practice was repeated with other children?" he asked Provance. "I don't see why it would not have been, sir," Provance replied.

Zabar's son had been apprehended with his father and held at Abu Ghraib, though the boy hadn't done anything wrong. "He was useless," Provance said about the boy in a phone interview with Salon from Heidelberg, Germany, where he is still in the Army. "He was of no intelligence value."

But, Provance said, interrogators grew frustrated when the boy's father, Zabar, wouldn't talk, despite a 14-hour interrogation. So they stripped Zabar's son naked and doused him with mud and water. They put him in the open back of a truck and drove around in the frigid January night air until the boy began to freeze. Zabar was then made to look at his suffering son.

"During the interrogation, they could not get him to talk," Provance recalled. "They said, 'OK, we are going to let you see your son.' They allow him to see his son in this shivering, freezing, naked state," Provance said. "That just totally broke his heart and that is when he said, 'I'll tell you what you want to know.'"

Provance said the boy was timid and afraid. "He was so skinny and so frail, and he was scared out of his mind," Provance remembered. "He was so skinny the handcuffs would not fit securely on his wrist. I had to put this green sandbag on his head. I just felt like a horrible person doing this."

Provance was not an interrogator; at that time, he worked on a security detail at Abu Ghraib. He said he did not see firsthand the boy being abused in the truck, although an interrogator working on the general's case later explained the abuse to Provance in detail.

Next page: "Despite my protest, a raid team leader detained her anyway" (http://tinyurl.com/qwgd2)

[Rohirrim]

I hope this is not true.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

A House subcommittee led by Connecticut Republican Christopher Shays took the unusual step last month of issuing Rumsfeld a subpoena for the documents after months of stonewalling by the Pentagon.

Stonewalling?

You mean like Bush and the 9-11 investigation?

Gosh, who woulda thunk?

[SteveTensi13]

I hope this is not true.


I hope it is true. We are fighting an asymetrical war which requires unconventional methods. The Queensbury rules and Geneva convention do not apply when you are fighting savages who have absolutely no regard for life.

[Spider]

I hope it is true. We are fighting an asymetrical war which requires unconventional methods. The Queensbury rules and Geneva convention do not apply when you are fighting savages who have absolutely no regard for life.
so we throw away who we are and become what we are fighting ....... Man it doesnt take much for you to throw being an American away and becomming a terrorist .......sorry if that is vulger , and it isnt an attack , just confriming what you posted .......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Queensbury rules and Geneva convention do not apply when you are fighting savages who have absolutely no regard for life.

Says you (mAnn Coulter and Rush Limbaugh's long lost love child.)

The really funny part is that you're oblivious to the degree to which the "no regard for life" part is descriptive of your beloved oil emperor.

[SteveTensi13]

Says you (mAnn Coulter and Rush Limbaugh's long lost love child.)

The really funny part is that you're oblivious to the degree to which the "no regard for life" part is descriptive of your beloved oil emperor.

Hmmm, let me see. Ted Kennedy has killed one person. Dubya, zero. That about finished that argument!

[ant1999e]

I'm sure it was some of those neo-nazis that joined the military who are responsible..

[SteveTensi13]

I'm sure it was some of those neo-nazis that joined the military who are responsible..

LOL LOL :rofl:

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Hmmm, let me see. Ted Kennedy has killed one person. Dubya, zero. That about finished that argument!

Is that what arithmetic on Oxycontin looks like?

100,000 Civilian Deaths Estimated in Iraq

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7967-2004Oct28.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'm sure it was some of those neo-nazis that joined the military who are responsible..

Group: U.S. military urged abuse in Iraq

Human Rights Watch said that U.S. military commanders encouraged abusive interrogations of detainees in Iraq, even after Abu Ghraib prison scandal called attention to the issue in 2004.

"Soldiers were told that the Geneva Conventions did not apply, and that interrogators could use abusive techniques to get detainees to talk," wrote John Sifton, a researcher at Human Rights Watch. The organization based that on interviews with military and sworn statements in declassified documents.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060723/ap_on_re_us/detainee_abuse

[errand]

..yet another thread started by the Beerslug that doesn't praise our troops...only accusing them of atrocities. You should quit your day job and become a reporter for al-Jazeerah

[errand]

Between Beerslug, Spider, and LABF, you liberal clowns could author the "al Quaida Bill of Rights"

[Spider]

Between Beerslug, Spider, and LABF, you liberal clowns could author the "al Quaida Bill of Rights"
beats the hell out of the inbred snake venom bill of rights that is strong in the Carolinias ..... thou shall tap thy sister is a sick passage

[Spider]

must be nice to live in a world were you see no fault , where everything we do is prefect ..............but for those of us in Reality , we understand , and we try to protect those that dont understand , or cant grasp that we do make mistakes .... but protecting the mentaly disabled gets hard .........

[errand]

Al -Quaida Bill of Rights. As written by the likes of Bronco Beerslug, Spider and LABF.....(not to mention the Democrat party)

We the leftists of the United States have come to realize that all terrorists are created equally by George Bush. That all terrorists are victims of an unjust war, despite the fact that they have murdered thousands of Americans. We now give you the "al-Qaida Bill of rights"

[a] All terrorists will now be referred to as victims. If we would just leave them alone, they'd leave us alone.

[b] All terrorists captured will have more rights than our brave troops who fought with, and apprehended them.

[c] All talking points of al-Qaida will be parroted by the Democrat party, CNN, and the NY Times.

[d] No feel good stories of free Iraqis/Afghanis or US troops bravery will be written...only stories that accuse US troops of rape, kidnapping and murder will be allowed to make the headlines.

[e] All terrorists will be treated like Celine Dion on tour, while all US military personnel will be treated like garbage.

[f] Making a terrorist wear female undergarments on their head = beheading hostages.

[g] All terrorists will now be fully protected by the US Constitution despite the fact that they are foriegners who are not US citizens and have commited acts of terror/war against the United States and it's citizens.

there ya go Mohammed...err, Beerslug. That ought to get the ball rolling for you clowns.

[Spider]

Al -Quaida Bill of Rights. As written by the likes of Bronco Beerslug, Spider and LABF.....(not to mention the Democrat party)

We the leftists of the United States have come to realize that all terrorists are created equally by George Bush. That all terrorists are victims of an unjust war, despite the fact that they have murdered thousands of Americans. We now give you the "al-Qaida Bill of rights"

[a] All terrorists will now be referred to as victims. If we would just leave them alone, they'd leave us alone.

[b] All terrorists captured will have more rights than our brave troops who fought with, and apprehended them.

[c] All talking points of al-Qaida will be parroted by the Democrat party, CNN, and the NY Times.

[d] No feel good stories of free Iraqis/Afghanis or US troops bravery will be written...only stories that accuse US troops of rape, kidnapping and murder will be allowed to make the headlines.

[e] All terrorists will be treated like Celine Dion on tour, while all US military personnel will be treated like garbage.

[f] Making a terrorist wear female undergarments on their head = beheading hostages.

[g] All terrorists will now be fully protected by the US Constitution despite the fact that they are foriegners who are not US citizens and have commited acts of terror/war against the United States and it's citizens.

there ya go Mohammed...err, Beerslug. That ought to get the ball rolling for you clowns.

thats ok Errand I understand .....there is only so much you can take in before information overload kicks in and you go into . you guys hate America mode ....it isnt your fault you cant handle bad news in your polly anna world ....... So I will concider the source of this post and let you know you have my pity .......

[errand]

beats the hell out of the inbred snake venom bill of rights that is strong in the Carolinias ..... thou shall tap thy sister is a sick passage

You have posted more derogatroy stories about our troops than you have about the terrorist enemies they fight.

[Spider]

You have posted more derogatroy stories about our troops than you have about the terrorist enemies they fight.
could you provide proof of this ?
I know I have went pretty hard on you , it is clear you can only handle so much before your noggin locks down ...... so instead of picking on you , I will show you pity and understand that there is only so much you can take in .......Basicaly humor you .....

[errand]

thats ok Errand I understand .....there is only so much you can take in before information overload kicks in and you go into . you guys hate America mode ....it isnt your fault you cant handle bad news in your polly anna world ....... So I will concider the source of this post and let you know you have my pity .......

A while back I asked if you clowns could shopw one solitary post that was positive about our troops....and not one of you clowns manned up. all we get from the likes of you and your anti-America clowns is how all our troops are murderers, rapists, and now kidnappers.

War is ugly, and there are some troops who do evil things....but you clowns won't even wait until they've had their day in court before you condemn them. Meanwhile you weep for those who cut the heads off of hostages, and wonder how the soldiers of the US could treat them so callously.

[errand]

could you provide proof of this ?


all one has to do is look at the threads started in here by you and your cronies.....

[Spider]

A while back I asked if you clowns could shopw one solitary post that was positive about our troops....and not one of you clowns manned up. all we get from the likes of you and your anti-America clowns is how all our troops are murderers, rapists, and now kidnappers.

War is ugly, and there are some troops who do evil things....but you clowns won't even wait until they've had their day in court before you condemn them. Meanwhile you weep for those who cut the heads off of hostages, and wonder how the soldiers of the US could treat them so callously.
Just provide a link to your claim that I post alot of derogatroy stories about our troops . if you will ..... shouldnt be hard errand , if you need help just ask , I will be happy to help , after all there is only so much you can take in

[Spider]

all one has to do is look at the threads started in here by you and your cronies.....
then it shouldnt be a problem for you to provide proof ...

[Spider]

um it would appear what is reality and what some precieve as reality are 2 different things , but this is what makes them special .........

[Atlas]

I know when I was there U.S. troops were arresting whole families for being related to suspected Iraqi trouble makers. One thing you have to understand is that women should never be touched or disrespected by Iraqi men let alone christian men. This caused a huge contoversy once this came out.

We didn't lose this war because it was unwinnable we lost this war because of the total lack of respect, planning and caring for the Iraqi people.

The stupid "Cowboy" attitude of this administration has been one of the main causes for our total ineptitude in Iraq. There are lots of good people in Iraq. I have met them and a majority, yes, I said a majority, of these people hate us and want us to leave, and I don't blame them a bit. We have done nothing for them.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I know when I was there U.S. troops were arresting whole families for being related to suspected Iraqi trouble makers. One thing you have to understand is that women should never be touched or disrespected by Iraqi men let alone christian men. This caused a huge contoversy once this came out.

We didn't lose this war because it was unwinnable we lost this war because of the total lack of respect, planning and caring for the Iraqi people.

The stupid "Cowboy" attitude of this administration has been one of the main causes for our total ineptitude in Iraq. There are lots of good people in Iraq. I have met them and a majority, yes, I said a majority, of these people hate us and want us to leave, and I don't blame them a bit. We have done nothing for them.

:thumbsup: ^5

This post is like a breath of fresh air amidst the stifling ignorance that is errant.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

..yet another thread started by the Beerslug that doesn't praise our troops...only accusing them of atrocities.

Yet another intellectualy dishonest and morally reprehensible post by errant who, whenever he is confronted with new evidence of atrocities committed by U.S. troops against innocent Iraqi civilians, simply attacks the messenger and sets up the same old straw man arguments, i.e., that anyone who objects to such atrocoties doesn't support the troops, hates America, etc.

All this in the interest of defending this corrupt, inept disaster of an administration and a GOP-controlled Congress whose approval ratings are in the teens.

You should be ashamed of yourself, Cletus.

You should quit your day job and become a reporter for al-Jazeerah

I'd urge you to quit your day gig and become an intern for Oxycontin Boy, but even Rush has an I.Q. prerequisite, I would suspect.

[Spider]

Yet another intellectualy dishonest and morally reprehensible post by errant who, whenever he is confronted with new evidence of atrocities committed by U.S. troops against innocent Iraqi civilians, simply attacks the messenger and sets up the same old straw man arguments, i.e., that anyone who objects to such atrocoties doesn't support the troops, hates America, etc.

All this in the interest of defending this corrupt, inept disaster of an administration and a GOP-controlled Congress whose approval ratings are in the teens.

You should be ashamed of yourself, Cletus.



I'd urge you to quit your day gig and become an intern for Oxycontin Boy, but even Rush has an I.Q. prerequisite, I would suspect.

It isnt Errands fault , it isnt hisfault he makes things up as he goes along ........ I think it iis part of his handicap ........

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

We the leftists of the United States have come to realize that all terrorists are created equally by George Bush.

We the willfully ignorant 33% who still support this amoral, abject failure of an administration have yet to realize that George W. Bush's bellicose, cowboy policies have ceated several new terrorists for every terrorist killed, and have created terrorist strongholds where none existed before. We have failed to realize all this in spite of copious supporting evidence (much of it reported by our own government and its intelligence agencies.)

That all terrorists are victims of an unjust war, despite the fact that they have murdered thousands of Americans.

That all Muslims and/or persons of Middle Eastern descent are terrorists.

This makes it easier for us to shrug off the unnecessary deaths of tens of thousands of innocent men, women, and children who have been killed in Bush's illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.

All detainees will be considered guilty until proven innocent - even if they are people who have been sold to U.S. authorities by bounty hunters.

If, as in the case of thousands of detainees at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, it should be determined that certain individuals have been imprisoned by mistake, we will nonetheless continue to refer to these individuals as "terrorists" in spite of the facts.

All terrorists will now be referred to as victims.

All Muslims and persons of Middle Eastern descent will now be referred to as terrorists.

And if anyone objects to this practice, we will simply accuse him of hating America. We will give him an Arabic name, use such names as epithets, and never once get called on the inherent bigotry (and vulgarity) of such behavior.

All terrorists captured will have more rights than our brave troops who fought with, and apprehended them.

All detainees will be labeled as "terrorists" despite proof that large numbers of said detainees have turned out to be innocent civilians (see Abu Ghraib, etc.)

All talking points of al-Qaida will be parroted by the Democrat party, CNN, and the NY Times.

All ditto monkey talking points will point fingers at Democrats in spite of the fact that the Bush administration, as a result of its idiotic, short-sighted, failed policies, has done more to help grow al Qaeda and other terrorist organizations throughout the world than Bin Laden could have ever imagined in his wildest wet dreams.