Gaza -- the world's largest prison

[mhgaffney]

Post after post on this board shows that Americans don't have a clue what is happening now in Gaza and Lebanon. What we are seeing is collective punishment being meted out to en entire population, exactly what the Nazis did to Jews trapped in the Warsaw ghetto during WW II.

But of course here no one recognizes it for what it is. Our western media reports that Israel is only defending itself from terrorism. And Ted Koppel feeds the war frenzy by blaming everything on Iran.

From the US it's almost impossible to have a clear picture. But here's what I've pieced together. In recent months Israel continued its practice of targetted killings of Palestinians, in the process shelling and bombing Gaza at will. One of these attacks killed an entire family of Palestinians on a Gaza beach. Palestinian militants, always referred to in the US as terrorists, responded by capturing an Israeli soldier.

At which point Israel reacted by bombing and destroying the main electrical generating plant for Gaza. Which means that in the 100 degree heat of summer up to a million Palestinians now have no refrigeration, no lights, no air conditioning, and no clean water, since electric pumps are integral to the water supply, which was already strained to the limit. The plant will not be replaced for maybe six months. This means that hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children, women, elderly and the general population will soon be drinking unclean water - with the likely prospect of a humanitarian health crisis looming ahead.

All of this shows that Israel's unilateral withdrawal of settlers from Gaza, which was praised to the roofbeams in the west as a noble step toward peace, was in fact done out of politcal expedience. Israel removed the settlers to more effectively seal off and strangle Gaza. Israel continues to control all the ports of entry, and blocks the export of Palestinan goods and produce abroad, thus preventing the development of a local economy. Fresh produce rots in trucks at entry points. etc etc

In fact, the Israeli paper Ha'aretz reported recently that the Israeli crackdown had been planned for many weeks. The capture of the Israeli soldier was merely a pretext to punish the Palestinians for democratically electing a Hamas governmment.

The UN Security Council has failed to act to end the violence because, once again, the US has used the threat of its veto to shield Israel from accountability. So now the world looks on helplessly while Israel has its way bombing and killing at will. Of course there is also Hezbollah involvement, Qassam rocket attacks from Gaza, etc but these are ineffectual next to Israel's vastly superior military power.

Haaretz also reported on 5 July that Moshe Sharoni, a member of the Israeli Knesset, publicly called for the extermination of the Palestinians in Gaza. Speaking on the floor of the Knesset, MK Sharoni said that, "We need to obliterate Gaza and call it the City of Murderers, the City of Terrorists." Thus, the comparison with the Warsaw ghetto is a perfectly accurate description of what is happening. Jews are behaving like Nazis. Yet through the dark lens of the US media the actual events are incomprehensible to most Americans, who typically either support Israel or more cynically say: "a pox on both your houses...".

Meanwhile, the collective punishment has now expanded to Lebanon. Who is next? The entire region? Then what? The world? All because of the uniquely Zionist brand of colonialism, a mish-mash of fear, hatred, racism and elitism. Don't talk with your neighbor! Shove your fist in his face. Break his bones! Make him bow and scrape to the Israeli masters.

This is the unhappy reality today. And it's a sorry commentary on the pathetic US press that launders events so effectively that from here they look like a different version of events -- a virtual reality.

The curious are welcome to check out my other posted articles about the Mideast at the link below. But be forewarned. This stuff is not for the faint of heart.

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/links.htm

Mark Gaffney

[SteveTensi13]

On your spare time do you spray paint swastikas on Jewish synagougs?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Palestinians - the world's worst nationbuilders.

[ClevelandBronco]

Looks like we need a 100 post rule in here, too.

[Spider]

Post after post on this board shows that Americans don't have a clue what is happening now in Gaza and Lebanon. What we are seeing is collective punishment being meted out to en entire population, exactly what the Nazis did to Jews trapped in the Warsaw ghetto during WW II.
Post after post shows , we dont give hoot anymore , we are growing tired of baby sitting these people , as I said in another thread , if they are hell bent on killing each other , let them have at it ........

But of course here no one recognizes it for what it is. Our western media reports that Israel is only defending itself from terrorism. And Ted Koppel feeds the war frenzy by blaming everything on Iran.
why should we ? these people been clashing long before I was born , they clash now , niether side wants peace , so take the gloves off let the chips fall where they may ......

From the US it's almost impossible to have a clear picture. But here's what I've pieced together. In recent months Israel continued its practice of targetted killings of Palestinians, in the process shelling and bombing Gaza at will. One of these attacks killed an entire family of Palestinians on a Gaza beach. Palestinian militants, always referred to in the US as terrorists, responded by capturing an Israeli soldier.
just dont care anymore , first it was Arafat , then Sharon , now 2 new guys same result ........ Screw em

old saying , mess with the Bull get the horn ........

[footstepsfrom#27]

This is the same numbskull who posted in here previously that Iran was not a problem in the middle east and the US should push Israel to give up it's nukes in exchange for Iranian "promises" to abandon the pursuit of the bomb.

[broncocalijohn]

Did he forget that Jordan was created about the same time as it was a British colony. Dont F with Israel. Unlike us with soft politics, they will beat you down over two soldiers. Why would the terrorist keep them with what Israel is doing to their cities? Palestinians fight over who should be running the country but now back each other on the kidnapping when it is almost certain it was approved (or done) by the new government. The poster probably thinks that Israel should give up the Golan heights and other such land even though it would be a disastrous military disadvantage to do so. 1967 six day war should have been a lesson to more than just Egypt. Israel doesnt screw around. Save the region and give back the soldiers. If not, prepare to suffer in an already crappy piece of land except Lebabon which ruined the beauty of their Mediterranean Sea hot spot.

[Ninjafied]

Interesting post. Well it’s about time someone stood up for Hezbollah’s latest actions. And a brave stand it is: even the anything-but-moderate Saudis are not offering support.

Saudi Arabia accused Hizbullah guerrillas of “uncalculated adventures” that could precipitate a new Middle East crisis.
The kingdom "clearly announces that there has to be a differentiation between legitimate resistance (to Israel) and uncalculated adventures."
Saudi Arabia's comments on the crisis came after most moderate Arab governments reacted with relative restraint to Israel's offensive in Lebanon, condemning attacks on civilians and infrastructure but also implicitly criticizing Hizbullah.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1150885995383

Even Europe has failed to make their regular condemnation of Israel’s actions and the regular pledge of funds to Lebanon.
So it looks like it’s you, the militant guerrillas in Hezbollah and perhaps the mullahs of Iran against the sane world on this one.

[defenseman]

This is the same numbskull who posted in here previously that Iran was not a problem in the middle east and the US should push Israel to give up it's nukes in exchange for Iranian "promises" to abandon the pursuit of the bomb.

Really? Ok, now I see the reason for the articles' thrust. Iran, is the biggest problem in the middle east, israel give up it's nukes? WWIII would be underway within a month. Then again, it may have already started. Iran "promises" to give up the bomb dream? Yeah, right. Not happenin. We'll end up forcing him to stand down , along with alot of other nations in the world...dman

[mhgaffney]

The knee jerks have been active, I see. Not a one of the posts so far deserves a reply. Every one reflects the usual don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up mentality. Not a one of these guys has ever lifted a finger, cracked a serious book, or otherwise put forth any effort to find out the truth about this conflict. What they don't understand is that the history of the conflict has been as contentious as the conflict itself. For obvious reasons: because he who controls the flow of information will shape public opinion to his way of thinking. And the US media has systematically lied about every facet of the conflict. No wonder most Americans don't have a clue. These guys are merely regurgitating what they've been programmed to say over years of TV watching.

Most of them don't care anyway, and as a Bronco fan I hate to admit this -- because they are preoccupied with things that don't matter: TV sports, movies, celebs, etc etc. This is how our leaders divert our attention from the really important things like running our nation and the world.

But I will add this much: The violence we are seeing is the result of Israel's refusal to negotiate with its neighbors. This will shock the knee jerks, who in their racist view of the world automatically assume that every Arab (indeed, everyone who is non white) is a terrorist. But the fact is that in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty.

The 2002 Saudi peace initiative offered not just recognition but full normalized relations, including full trade, economic ties, cultural exchanges, in short, an end to the conflict, IF Israel would abide by UN Security Council resolutions on Palestine. True, the peace offer was a trial balloon, but it had broad support in the Arab world. It had been drafted at an Arab League summit shortly before being announced.

Israel did not reject the peace offer. As far as I know Israel never responded to it at all. They simply dismissed it. And the US media dutifully forgot about it. So few Americans today know that it even happened. But it did happen. Israel was offered full peace -- and they spurned it. Evidently Israel's leaders decided that, given their nuclear supremacy, their vast military might, and their dutiful US protector, that there was no need to negotiate. Why negotate with your neighbor when you can impose your will on him, unilaterally set the terms of peace, etc?

All of which shows that this has never been a religious conflict. It was never about Jews versus Arabs. It was never about anti semitism. (Both peoples are semitic, after all.) It has always been about land. Real estate.

The skeptics and cynics should check out the following site, whch details the Arab peace offer. It happened -- and Israel rejected it.


http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

[ClevelandBronco]

The knee jerks have been active, I see. Not a one of the posts so far deserves a reply.

Thanks for replying anyway.

[Hotrod]

Wow Im thinking someone is lucky Taco implemented the be nice to everyone even the slow ones rule or a certain someone would be getting blasted Ha!

[NOLA Bronco]

The knee jerks have been active, I see. Not a one of the posts so far deserves a reply.

And you lose any and all credibility when you compare the actions of the Israelis to those of the Nazis. That shows that YOU have no idea what is going on.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The knee jerks have been active, I see. Not a one of the posts so far deserves a reply. Every one reflects the usual don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up mentality. Not a one of these guys has ever lifted a finger, cracked a serious book, or otherwise put forth any effort to find out the truth about this conflict. What they don't understand is that the history of the conflict has been as contentious as the conflict itself. For obvious reasons: because he who controls the flow of information will shape public opinion to his way of thinking. And the US media has systematically lied about every facet of the conflict. No wonder most Americans don't have a clue. These guys are merely regurgitating what they've been programmed to say over years of TV watching.

Most of them don't care anyway, and as a Bronco fan I hate to admit this -- because they are preoccupied with things that don't matter: TV sports, movies, celebs, etc etc. This is how our leaders divert our attention from the really important things like running our nation and the world.

But I will add this much: The violence we are seeing is the result of Israel's refusal to negotiate with its neighbors. This will shock the knee jerks, who in their racist view of the world automatically assume that every Arab (indeed, everyone who is non white) is a terrorist. But the fact is that in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty.

The 2002 Saudi peace initiative offered not just recognition but full normalized relations, including full trade, economic ties, cultural exchanges, in short, an end to the conflict, IF Israel would abide by UN Security Council resolutions on Palestine. True, the peace offer was a trial balloon, but it had broad support in the Arab world. It had been drafted at an Arab League summit shortly before being announced.

Israel did not reject the peace offer. As far as I know Israel never responded to it at all. They simply dismissed it. And the US media dutifully forgot about it. So few Americans today know that it even happened. But it did happen. Israel was offered full peace -- and they spurned it. Evidently Israel's leaders decided that, given their nuclear supremacy, their vast military might, and their dutiful US protector, that there was no need to negotiate. Why negotate with your neighbor when you can impose your will on him, unilaterally set the terms of peace, etc?

All of which shows that this has never been a religious conflict. It was never about Jews versus Arabs. It was never about anti semitism. (Both peoples are semitic, after all.) It has always been about land. Real estate.

The skeptics and cynics should check out the following site, whch details the Arab peace offer. It happened -- and Israel rejected it.


http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

Hey Gaffney,

Make a 180 degree turn, walk for a bit and you'll see reality just around the bend ahead. You made a wrong turn somewhere several miles back.

[24champ]

Anybody check out the Biography on Mark? Its safe to say Hotrod wont like him...Ha!

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/bio.htm

[Rohirrim]

Anybody check out the Biography on Mark? Its safe to say Hotrod wont like him...Ha!

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/bio.htm

CSU! I shoulda known. Hilarious!

I went to his site and read a few articles which left me with this question, does M. Gaffney believe that Israel has a right to exist?

[ClevelandBronco]

Anybody check out the Biography on Mark? Its safe to say Hotrod wont like him...Ha!

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/bio.htm

From his bio:

"Mark holds a BS degree…"

I could have guessed that much.

[epicSocialism4tw]

From his bio:
"Mark holds a BS degree…"
I could have guessed that much.

A BS in Physical Science. Is he a botanist? Ecologist? I find it strange that he chose to pursue such a strange career choice after a science degree.

He's the political antithesis of Micheal Savage, except that Savage is a Doc.

[24champ]

CSU! I shoulda known. Hilarious!

I went to his site and read a few articles which left me with this question, does M. Gaffney believe that Israel has a right to exist?
he certainly sounds anti-semitic in my book.

[Mile High Shack]

down with the zionist eh?

per chance your not a muslim eh?

[24champ]

he also doesnt know football and critcized "da man"...

I don't fault the Walker decision. Nonetheless I think Shanahan blew it by picking Cutler.
We were in position to select premier players at 4 different positions -- TE, Safety, DT, and also DE. We had the draft picks and the depth was there. Everything was within reach -- maybe even the Super Bowl.
But when Shanahan picked Sheffler at 61 I knew we were sunk. He reached for a second rate TE out of sheer desparation, when great talent was still left at Safety (Bing, Watkins), DE (Tapp), and DT (Wright, Dvorcek) etc And because he reached at 61 we will end up picking up the dregs in the fourth trying to cobble a team together. Since we no longer have a third round pick and we gave away #68 to move up in the first.
This is what comes of betting the farm. Way to go Shanahan. You should have given Plummer one more year to improve and you could have given him the tools. Instead you pissed away this next year. We will be worse than last year -- no doubt about it.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=41502

this guy is a clown.

edit: sorry guys wrong link.

[epicSocialism4tw]

He's a "peace" activist. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but that's the industry that he seems to be involved in.

[Rohirrim]

The knee jerks have been active, I see. Not a one of the posts so far deserves a reply. Every one reflects the usual don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up mentality. Not a one of these guys has ever lifted a finger, cracked a serious book, or otherwise put forth any effort to find out the truth about this conflict. What they don't understand is that the history of the conflict has been as contentious as the conflict itself. For obvious reasons: because he who controls the flow of information will shape public opinion to his way of thinking. And the US media has systematically lied about every facet of the conflict. No wonder most Americans don't have a clue. These guys are merely regurgitating what they've been programmed to say over years of TV watching.

Most of them don't care anyway, and as a Bronco fan I hate to admit this -- because they are preoccupied with things that don't matter: TV sports, movies, celebs, etc etc. This is how our leaders divert our attention from the really important things like running our nation and the world.

But I will add this much: The violence we are seeing is the result of Israel's refusal to negotiate with its neighbors. This will shock the knee jerks, who in their racist view of the world automatically assume that every Arab (indeed, everyone who is non white) is a terrorist. But the fact is that in 2002 Saudi Arabia offered Israel a full peace treaty.

The 2002 Saudi peace initiative offered not just recognition but full normalized relations, including full trade, economic ties, cultural exchanges, in short, an end to the conflict, IF Israel would abide by UN Security Council resolutions on Palestine. True, the peace offer was a trial balloon, but it had broad support in the Arab world. It had been drafted at an Arab League summit shortly before being announced.

Israel did not reject the peace offer. As far as I know Israel never responded to it at all. They simply dismissed it. And the US media dutifully forgot about it. So few Americans today know that it even happened. But it did happen. Israel was offered full peace -- and they spurned it. Evidently Israel's leaders decided that, given their nuclear supremacy, their vast military might, and their dutiful US protector, that there was no need to negotiate. Why negotate with your neighbor when you can impose your will on him, unilaterally set the terms of peace, etc?

All of which shows that this has never been a religious conflict. It was never about Jews versus Arabs. It was never about anti semitism. (Both peoples are semitic, after all.) It has always been about land. Real estate.

The skeptics and cynics should check out the following site, whch details the Arab peace offer. It happened -- and Israel rejected it.


http://www.al-bab.com/arab/docs/league/peace02.htm

I'm bored. I'll play. Immediately after this peace plan was offered, a Hamas bomber walked into a hotel and blew up 30 Jews at their Passover feast. And you are wrong about the response. I believe it was Rabin who asked what was the point of a peace plan between Israel and neighboring Arab states if the Palestinians weren't included? Of course, the Palestinians would not acquiesce to the idea that Israel had a right to exist, so you're on hard ground from the get-go.

And what has Syria done for Israel that Israel should just simply hand back the Golan Heights to them? You forget, in 1967 it was not Israel that attacked its neighbors. It was the neighbors who attacked Israel. In all the intervening years, Syria has done everything in its power to destroy Israel. And now Israel should just shake hands and sign over Golan? Saudi Arabia is the number one supporter of jihadist madrassas and jihadist recruitment in the world. Israel should just shake their hands and say all is forgotten? The Saudis have a very long history of playing the two faced game.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Mark Gaffney is a researcher, writer, poet, environmentalist, peace activist, and organic gardener. Mark was the principal organizer of the first Earth Day at Colorado State University in April 1970...worked for National Audubon...worked with Greenpeace to organize the No More Chernobyls anti nuclear conference held in Washington, DC in the spring of that year.

He is the author of a novel, The First Tree of the Day (2001), and a first volume of poetry The Blue Kachina -- more than 30 years in the making. The (so far unpublished) book of poems is now posted on this site in its entirety, for your enjoyment.Gnostic Secrets of the Naassenes is Mark’s third book. There are plans for another...

Mark holds a BS degree (Physical Science) from Colorado State University. He divides his time between rural Oregon and the San Francisco Bay Area.
Wow! He's obviously an expert on this. LOL He's a poet (unpublished) and worked for Greenpeace and the National Audibon Society.

BAAA! HAAA! Comedy post of the week...^5

[Rohirrim]

Wow! He's obviously an expert on this. LOL He's a poet (unpublished) and worked for Greenpeace and the National Audibon Society.

BAAA! HAAA! Comedy post of the week...^5

I think it's the organic gardening that gives him his special insights.

Into compost, anyway. :giggle:

[Smiling Assassin27]

the name of this gent's source is 'Gnostic Secrets'.com...whoa nelly. what's that flying away from us now? oh, that's his credibility.

this drivel is based on the writings of Paul McCann, spokesman for the UN's Palestinian refugee agency in Gaza from 2001-2005. Maybe just slightly biased, no? look, israel has plenty of blood on its hands but the problem is that both sides are denying their rightful roles in the death of innocents and so both are culpable. here's mr. mccann's full piece.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0816-25.htm

[mhgaffney]

Just to hit a few buttons.

Of course I recognize Israel's right to exist. That has not been at issue -- since Arafat convinced the Palestinian National Council to pursue a two state settement back in around 1975. Do any of you remember?

This is to Rohirriim: What universe do you live in? Rabin had nothing to do with any rejection of the 2002 Saudi peace offer, having been murdered by a right wing Zionist fanatic back in 1995.

And as for the 1967 war, Rohrrim, you need to brush up. The war began with an Israeli pre emptive attack of the Egyptian air force. In the hours before the war, the US government tried to dissuade Israel from attacking. The US showed the Israeli ambassador aerial recon photos of Nasser's troops in Sinai proving he was not about to attack. Israel attacked anyway -- and why? Because they knew they would win an easy victory -- and gain the coveted West Bank.

Mile High Shack: Would a Muslim write a book about an authentic Gnostic Christian source text? I doubt it.

[mhgaffney]

BTW, I never heard of Paul McCann.

[Smiling Assassin27]

he's the one that made popular the 'world's largest prison' illusion that you chose to use.

[Smiling Assassin27]

Just to hit a few buttons.

Of course I recognize Israel's right to exist. That has not been at issue -- since Arafat convinced the Palestinian National Council to pursue a two state settement back in around 1975. Do any of you remember?

This is to Rohirriim: What universe do you live in? Rabin had nothing to do with any rejection of the 2002 Saudi peace offer, having been murdered by a right wing Zionist fanatic back in 1995.

And as for the 1967 war, Rohrrim, you need to brush up. The war began with an Israeli pre emptive attack of the Egyptian air force. In the hours before the war, the US government tried to dissuade Israel from attacking. The US showed the Israeli ambassador aerial recon photos of Nasser's troops in Sinai proving he was not about to attack. Israel attacked anyway -- and why? Because they knew they would win an easy victory -- and gain the coveted West Bank.

Mile High Shack: Would a Muslim write a book about an authentic Gnostic Christian source text? I doubt it.


the inherent similarities of Gnosticism and Islam aside, why is it utterly impossible for a Gnostic and Muslim to side against the Jews, who have attempted to discredit both for ages?

[Hotrod]

Anybody check out the Biography on Mark? Its safe to say Hotrod wont like him...Ha!
http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/bio.htm

A tree hugger and organic gardener. Holy crap :nono:

[Rohirrim]

Just to hit a few buttons.

Of course I recognize Israel's right to exist. That has not been at issue -- since Arafat convinced the Palestinian National Council to pursue a two state settement back in around 1975. Do any of you remember?

Frankly, there was no more duplicitous bastard ever born than Arafat.


This is to Rohirriim: What universe do you live in? Rabin had nothing to do with any rejection of the 2002 Saudi peace offer, having been murdered by a right wing Zionist fanatic back in 1995.

What universe do I live in? The universe where I say "I think" meaning, I'm going off the top of my memory here and remember more the statement than who made it. Has it been that long since Rabin got killed? Damn. Time flies. The statement loses none of its validity, regardless of who said it.

I noticed you conveniently ignored the Passover atrocity.


And as for the 1967 war, Rohrrim, you need to brush up. The war began with an Israeli pre emptive attack of the Egyptian air force. In the hours before the war, the US government tried to dissuade Israel from attacking. The US showed the Israeli ambassador aerial recon photos of Nasser's troops in Sinai proving he was not about to attack. Israel attacked anyway -- and why? Because they knew they would win an easy victory -- and gain the coveted West Bank.

It's all in the perception, isn't it? To you, the Egyptians are massing in the desert for a picnic. To the Israelis, it looks dangerous. The Israelis attack. Why? You say because they could win an easy victory. That's your perception. Living under the shadow of nation-states who had sworn to destroy them, perhaps Israel had a different perception? If you know you're going to get punched, it's better to get the first shot in.

I have met combatants from the Israeli, and Palestinian encampments. Frankly, they are the hardest headed people I have ever known, on both sides, and completely intractable. One of the reasons I stopped paying such close attention to the area is my belief that neither side will ever give in enough to create lasting peace. At least not until one or the other (or both) is obliterated, or hundreds of years evolve us beyond all this crap; whichever comes first.

[mhgaffney]

Rohirrim: Nasser's troops had taken up defensive positions in Sinai in 1967. The aerial photos proved he was not going to attack. True, his blustering speeches and statements gave Israel a pretext, and ever since Zionists have used this ammunition to "prove" it was a defensive war. But the facts as I stated them were admitted by Israeli generals after the war. It wasa land grab by Israel pure and simple.

Nasser paid the ultimate prooce for his bluffing. His heallth went downhill and he died of a heart attack a few years later.

As for the atrocity you mentioned, there have been many incidents and killings, on both sides. In one case a fanatic settler walked into the mosque on the temple mount and murdered 30+ Arabs. The point is, are you going to allow individual acts of terror to block peace talks? That gives terrorists every incentive -- and they win.

In fact, Israel's excuse often given for its refusal to negotiate a peace settlement proves it isnt interested in talks. As I've indicated the policy in recebnt years has been unilateral action.

smiling assassin: I'm sorry but I don't understand your question. Gnostic Christianity was the heart of Jesus' teachings. It grew directly out of Judaism -- but also contained elements from Buddhism and Hinduism.

[mhgaffney]

smiling assassin: I am far from the only one to point out the similarity between Gaza today and the Warsaw ghetto. No surprise since it's an obvious comparison. Recently a professor of history reached the same conclusion in a post at counterpuch.org

I think it was a wek or more back.

[Spider]

where is lindy england when you need her ?

[mhgaffney]

I will make one last post -- then must be away.

smiling assassin: are you in the habit of judging a book by its cover? Or do you actually read them? One chapter from my book on the Gnostics has been posted on the web. You can read it for free at

http://www.new-age-spirituality.com/religion/gnostic.html

Rohirrim: Your point about the intractability of the combatants is well taken. No question both sides are stuck in a cycle of violence and can't find their way out. This is why they need help. The US could help by pressuring Israel to make the needed concessions for peace to happen. But the US won't do it. We are not an honest peace broker. We are heavily biased toward Israel.

The UN can't act because of the US veto in the Security Council. This is the reason why the conflict goes on and on. It might have been resolved long ago but for the lack of leadership in Washington. We are being led by corupt politicians who pander for votes and rely on campaign funding from AIPAC (the Israel lobby). This is why we are stuck.

It won't change until and unless informed Americans demand it. But I fear we'll see a nuclear war happen, first. There are just too many guys like you who don't give a damn.

[Hotrod]

I will make one last post -- then must be away.

.

Well its been nice to see you please come back when you cant stay so long next time. 8')

[Spider]

Well its been nice to see you please come back when you cant stay so long next time. 8')
Hotrod = the welcome wagon ........ I can see hotrods pick up bumper sticker ....... Welcome to Colorado , now get your ass back home ;D

[Hotrod]

Hotrod = the welcome wagon ........ I can see hotrods pick up bumper sticker ....... Welcome to Colorado , now get your ass back home ;D

LOL I dont care much for bumber stickers on my truck but that one I would wear with pride :yep:

[Spider]

LOL I dont care much for bumber stickers on my truck but that one I would wear with pride :yep:
So I guess the goat roper needs love to bumper sticker is out of the question ? ;D

[Hotrod]

So I guess the goat roper needs love to bumper sticker is out of the question ? ;D

LOL pretty much...

[Spider]

LOL pretty much...
well the package comming from spider you dont need to open ;D

[Rohirrim]

It won't change until and unless informed Americans demand it. But I fear we'll see a nuclear war happen, first. There are just too many guys like you who don't give a damn.

LOL What an absolutely ridiculous statement. Given that you don't know me in the slightest, I can only assume you make that statement out of some kind of immature need to let your ego preen. Well, you go right ahead, if it makes you feel better.

[Hotrod]

well the package comming from spider you dont need to open ;D

I'll just forward that to a friend of mine hes an organic farmer ya know ;D

[Spider]

LOL What an absolutely ridiculous statement. Given that you don't know me in the slightest, I can only assume you make that statement out of some kind of immature need to let your ego preen. Well, you go right ahead, if it makes you feel better.
hey stop using words I dont know ...........
Whut in tarnation an absolutely ridiculous statement. Given thet yo' doesn't knows me in th' slightest, ah can only assoom yo' make thet statement outta some kind of immature need t'let yer ego spill out like a bucket with a hole in it , as enny fool kin plainly see. Wal, yo' hoof it right ahaid, eff'n it makes yo' feel better ........
there we go ;D

[Spider]

I'll just forward that to a friend of mine hes an organic farmer ya know ;D
:wiggle:

[footstepsfrom#27]

Who would pay a dollar to see this twit go at it with Moc? :rofl:

[Spider]

Who would pay a dollar to see this twit go at it with Moc? :rofl:
:thumbsup: mock would win hands down though

[elsid13]

While I don't agree with any of mhgaffney's post, he does bring a non-Western viewpoint of the conflict. What scare me is the statement he make represent the view of the local on the street in Middle East.

[elsid13]

:thumbsup: mock would win hands down though

Spider, MOCK might win if the liquor store ran out of Mad Dog 20/20 that day.

Mock's response would be "STFU, your a dimwit, my cat is smarter then you. I once was asked to Play the 6 Million Dollar Man."

[Spider]

Spider, MOCK might win if the liquor store ran out of Mad Dog 20/20 that day.

Mock's response would be "STFU, your a dimwit, my cat is smarter then you. I once was asked to Play the 6 Million Dollar Man."
LOL , yeah Mock would toy with him , but I have seen Mock bring strong points also .........So sit down and STFU you dimwit , ;D

[epicSocialism4tw]

I will make one last post -- then must be away.
smiling assassin: are you in the habit of judging a book by its cover? Or do you actually read them? One chapter from my book on the Gnostics has been posted on the web. You can read it for free at
http://www.new-age-spirituality.com/religion/gnostic.html
Rohirrim: Your point about the intractability of the combatants is well taken. No question both sides are stuck in a cycle of violence and can't find their way out. This is why they need help. The US could help by pressuring Israel to make the needed concessions for peace to happen. But the US won't do it. We are not an honest peace broker. We are heavily biased toward Israel.
The UN can't act because of the US veto in the Security Council. This is the reason why the conflict goes on and on. It might have been resolved long ago but for the lack of leadership in Washington. We are being led by corupt politicians who pander for votes and rely on campaign funding from AIPAC (the Israel lobby). This is why we are stuck.
It won't change until and unless informed Americans demand it. But I fear we'll see a nuclear war happen, first. There are just too many guys like you who don't give a damn.

I'm sure I'm not the first one to tell you this, but a nation is driven by its interests. America makes decisions based on its interests, not by the metric of the secular humanism compassion scale. There is a sense of a longing for adherence to a universal moral in your posts that speaks volumes about what your expectations are. No matter how glorious the idea of universal peace sounds to us right now, the accomplishment of that goal through diplomacy and corporate relationships just isnt going to happen. It's not in the nature of business and business drives the bus.

You may be disgusted by the fact that business drives the bus, or maybe confused by the vail of the social economic that has told you that peace at all costs is the ultimate goal of the government of the United States...I dont know, but your parents should have taught you that life is kill or be killed in the real world. You can thank American Economy for much of the peace that stands in our world today. A quick glimpse at Africa and the Middle east shows you what a populace looks like that cant build their own healthy economic infrastructure. You bring a machete to school.

[Bronco9798]

Post after post on this board shows that Americans don't have a clue what is happening now in Gaza and Lebanon. What we are seeing is collective punishment being meted out to en entire population, exactly what the Nazis did to Jews trapped in the Warsaw ghetto during WW II.

But of course here no one recognizes it for what it is. Our western media reports that Israel is only defending itself from terrorism. And Ted Koppel feeds the war frenzy by blaming everything on Iran.

From the US it's almost impossible to have a clear picture. But here's what I've pieced together. In recent months Israel continued its practice of targetted killings of Palestinians, in the process shelling and bombing Gaza at will. One of these attacks killed an entire family of Palestinians on a Gaza beach. Palestinian militants, always referred to in the US as terrorists, responded by capturing an Israeli soldier.

At which point Israel reacted by bombing and destroying the main electrical generating plant for Gaza. Which means that in the 100 degree heat of summer up to a million Palestinians now have no refrigeration, no lights, no air conditioning, and no clean water, since electric pumps are integral to the water supply, which was already strained to the limit. The plant will not be replaced for maybe six months. This means that hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children, women, elderly and the general population will soon be drinking unclean water - with the likely prospect of a humanitarian health crisis looming ahead.

All of this shows that Israel's unilateral withdrawal of settlers from Gaza, which was praised to the roofbeams in the west as a noble step toward peace, was in fact done out of politcal expedience. Israel removed the settlers to more effectively seal off and strangle Gaza. Israel continues to control all the ports of entry, and blocks the export of Palestinan goods and produce abroad, thus preventing the development of a local economy. Fresh produce rots in trucks at entry points. etc etc

In fact, the Israeli paper Ha'aretz reported recently that the Israeli crackdown had been planned for many weeks. The capture of the Israeli soldier was merely a pretext to punish the Palestinians for democratically electing a Hamas governmment.

The UN Security Council has failed to act to end the violence because, once again, the US has used the threat of its veto to shield Israel from accountability. So now the world looks on helplessly while Israel has its way bombing and killing at will. Of course there is also Hezbollah involvement, Qassam rocket attacks from Gaza, etc but these are ineffectual next to Israel's vastly superior military power.

Haaretz also reported on 5 July that Moshe Sharoni, a member of the Israeli Knesset, publicly called for the extermination of the Palestinians in Gaza. Speaking on the floor of the Knesset, MK Sharoni said that, "We need to obliterate Gaza and call it the City of Murderers, the City of Terrorists." Thus, the comparison with the Warsaw ghetto is a perfectly accurate description of what is happening. Jews are behaving like Nazis. Yet through the dark lens of the US media the actual events are incomprehensible to most Americans, who typically either support Israel or more cynically say: "a pox on both your houses...".

Meanwhile, the collective punishment has now expanded to Lebanon. Who is next? The entire region? Then what? The world? All because of the uniquely Zionist brand of colonialism, a mish-mash of fear, hatred, racism and elitism. Don't talk with your neighbor! Shove your fist in his face. Break his bones! Make him bow and scrape to the Israeli masters.

This is the unhappy reality today. And it's a sorry commentary on the pathetic US press that launders events so effectively that from here they look like a different version of events -- a virtual reality.

The curious are welcome to check out my other posted articles about the Mideast at the link below. But be forewarned. This stuff is not for the faint of heart.

http://www.gnosticsecrets.com/pages/links.htm

Mark Gaffney


Good for Israel. Now maybe terrorist groups like Hezbollah can withdraw from Lebannon like UN resolution 1559 (?) calls for. Maybe someone can take Iran and Syria out as soon as Hezbollah and Hamas get destroyed. If the Lebannese Government would keep thugs like Hezbollah out of it's country and abide by the U.N resolutions we wouldn't have this problem.

Maybe if Hezbollah, who is nothing but agents of Iran and Syria, wouldn't cross borders and kidnap soldiers from another country, we wouldn' have these problems.

I hope Israel stays on course and knocks the **** out of Hamas and Hezbollah. You can't have peace with thugs running around causing havoc. Someone needs to step up and shut them down. Israel is doing what is has to do.