San Diego Season Lies on Rivers

[WoodMan]

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+West/San+Diego/Features/2006/neubauer061606.htm

San Diego's new starting quarterback garnering positive headlines despite lack of experience
By Chris Neubauer (cneubauer@pfwmedia.com)
June 16, 2006





The locals call it “June Gloom.” I call it “a week in San Diego and no suntan to show for it.”

I just got back from a weeklong vacation in San Diego. I went to a Padres game, saw the world-famous zoo and boarded enough boats (everything from aircraft carriers to centuries-old sailboats) to scratch that itch for the next decade or so.

But something was missing.

You see, sunny Southern California isn’t so sunny in May (“May Gray”) or June; it’s precisely the opposite — cloudy. Too bad every travel book that I read failed to inform me about that little tidbit. The typically pristine weather in San Diego is so far from its trademark blue skies in May and June that the locals can’t help but snicker when a fair-skinned tourist from Chicago, such as your humble scribe, asks, “So, when is the sun going to come out?”

The only sun I saw in San Diego came on the pages of the local newspapers, where rays of bright sunlight emanated from the newsprint as the media extolled the virtues of the Bolts' new starting quarterback, Philip Rivers. The Chargers were in the middle of a minicamp during my trip, and day after day, all I read and heard about was what a good leader Rivers is and how good the offense will be with him behind the wheel and steering the ship.

Here are some samples of what I read in the San Diego Union-Tribune alone.

“He’s got charisma,” said WR Keenan McCardell.

“He’s a natural leader,” said Pro Bowl RB LaDainian Tomlinson.

Even Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow weighed in. Chow was Rivers’ offensive coordinator during his freshman year at North Carolina State. Said Chow: “You knew he was special the minute he got there, by his demeanor."

I understand the optimism in San Diego, somewhat. The Chargers were unquestionably the most talented team not to make the playoffs last year. They played a daunting schedule of 11 games against teams that finished with records above .500, and they were stuck in the challenging AFC West, where three teams finished with their heads above water. They lost five games by a mere four points or less. They were oh so close, oh so often. And they return the nucleus of a team that’s won 21 games over the past two seasons.

But what worries me most about the 2006 Chargers is the player the local media were lauding more than a month before training camp opens. I’m not sold on Rivers. I am sold on Drew Brees, the Chargers' starting signalcaller in recent years. Brees is in New Orleans now, where he’s ahead of schedule rehabbing from a shoulder injury (which Chargers GM A.J. Smith conveniently used as the overriding reason for not re-signing the two-time Pro Bowler) and where he should lead a revival of the Saints.

Brees was a leader and a winner in the NFL. Rivers, we’re told over and over again, is a natural-born leader, too. But is he a natural-born winner? He won 34 of his 51 starts in college. Not bad. While he still hasn’t started an NFL game, the Chargers are 3-1 in the four games Rivers has appeared in during his brief two-year pro career. Granted, Rivers’ first three appearances were in garbage time of blowout wins. The one game where Rivers did see significant action was in Week 17 last year. He entered the game just before halftime after Brees was knocked out with an injury to his throwing shoulder. Rivers completed 12-of-22 passes for 115 yards. Not terrible. But he turned the ball over three times — one interception, two fumbles — as the Chargers stumbled to a 23-7 loss to the Broncos. Uh-oh.

Neither team had anything to play for. The Chargers had already been eliminated from playoff contention, and the Broncos had clinched the division title. But Rivers had something to play for. He was out to prove that he, not Brees, should be the starter in 2006. Rivers’ play on that drizzly afternoon five months ago was uninspiring. And it shouldn’t have won him the starting job. But somehow, it did.

When Week One rolls around and Rivers lines up under center for the Chargers as they travel to Oakland to play the Raiders on Monday night — in front of a national television audience, no less — Rivers will be making his first career start. Rivers will be a rookie starter even though he’s entering his third NFL season.

Brees would have been the better option. The safe pick. He’s a two-time Pro Bowler, and his shoulder should be fine by the time training camp begins. He would have been able to step in like he did two years ago and guide the Chargers back to the playoffs.

But the GM with the two initials (A.J.) chose to gamble on his high-priced former first-round pick. I’m not saying Rivers won’t be a quality NFL starter someday. I think he will. But Brees is a quality NFL starter right now. And if the Chargers are truly concerned about getting back to the playoffs, they should have kept Brees around.

Without Brees, the Chargers are swimming up river in a tough division, and the playoffs are a destination that’s moving further and further away. Like the travel guides that failed to inform me about "June Gloom" in San Diego, the positive spin surrounding Rivers is leaving out one small, but key, detail — with first-year starter Rivers in the fold, the forecast is gloomy for the Chargers in '06.

[WoodMan]

I've been reading some ominous things coming out of Chargers land. For one Merriman has added 10 lbs of muscle through some unique and insane off-season training. Their linebacking is the strong point of their defense.
I didn't realize it is River's third year. I thought it was his second. If we think Cutler will be ready in three, why not Rivers. The Chargers are going to be tough this year.

[Tombstone RJ]

Sandy Eggo is the wild card of the division, that's all that needs to be said really.

They have talent galore, and quite possible a future star in Rivers. But, nothing will be known until the games are actually played...

[Killericon]

San Diego Season Lies on Rivers
****ing duh.

[watermock]

San Diego still owes a boat load of signing bonus for their bungled move up for Rivers. That was an odd move. They managed to salvage something for Brees by starting him last year and recovered some value. I'm not that worried about Rivers other than experience and a rather flat throwing motion, but he's very accurate.

That said, who would you rather have? Phillip Rivers at basically a #1 or 2 price tag, or Jay Cutler at #11? Personally I wouldn't trade Cutler for Rivers straight up right now. That might sound homer, but that's the way I feel. Rivers is 6-5 230, but more lanky and not as agile a player as Cutler. His release is slower, his arm strength is adequate, not remarkable like Jays. I think Rivers will be a fine QB, but I wouldn't trade Cutler for him quite honestly, and it's all meat to me, and I like Rivers. I just know in my gut Cutler is going to be better.

San Diego probably made the right move playing an uncomfortable situation. I think we have a very good chance to repeat in the Division as the other pretenders are in major flux.

That article was so lame it was just scanned over. Well Duh is right.

[ZachKC]

I never quite know what to expect from SD from season to season. Should be interesting to see how they pan out.

[Kaylore]

I never quite know what to expect from SD from season to season.
Seriously. Even when their front office gets it right, they get it wrong.

[BroncoBuff]

San Diego still owes a boat load of signing bonus for their bungled move up for Rivers. That was an odd move.
I disagree there ... it's way too soon to call the Rivers move a "bungle."

I think he's gonna be a very good quarterback ... I just hope it takes him a couple of years to get there. And if you recall, the Chargers really took the Giants to the cleaners on that trade. I don't recall the exact specifics, but all the commentators were HOWLING that the Giants gave up way too much for Eli ...

[BroncoBuff]

In fact .... the Chargers really took advantage of the Giants' having the "Burning Brokeback Hots" for Manning. And they played it beautifully ... remember, the trade came AFTER the draft. Eli was adamant about not playing in San Diego. In that scenario, it was amazing the Chargers got so much in return ...

Hmmmm .... when was the last time a team drafted a QB in the first round, and that QB refused to play for them? I seem to recall that team had to practically give the guy away. All they got in return was a couple of O-Linemen (Chris Hinton, Ron Solt) and a rag-armed backup QB (Mark Hermann).

The Chargers did MUCH better.

[No1BroncoFan]

The Chargers did MUCH better.
Did the Chargers do better than the Colts, or did the Broncos just do better than the Giants? ;D

Ben

[BroncoBuff]

Did the Chargers do better than the Colts, or did the Broncos just do better than the Giants? ;D

Ben
Touche!

I like your explanation better! :notworthy

[Clockwork Orange]

Did the Chargers do better than the Colts, or did the Broncos just do better than the Giants? ;D

We're gonna find out. The Bolts have put all of their eggs in Rivers' basket since they passed on having the Giants take the consensus #2 QB in that draft for them (Roethlisberger) because they fell in love with Phillip and now they let Brees walk for nothing to give him his shot.

They're certainly rolling the dice. What's the worst that could happen?

http://www.emblibrary.com/EL/product_images/L1370.jpg

http://www.theoaklandpress.com/images/photos4.18/7245_512.jpg

[-Slap-]

Brees is twice the quarterback Rivers will ever be.

[BroncoBuff]

Brees is twice the quarterback Rivers will ever be.
Jury is still out on that - WAY out.

In fact, I'll make you a gentleman's wager Rivers surpasses Brees. "How soon we forget" ... in the 2004 draft, many of the hip draft-niks were betting Rivers would be the best pro of the three (alotta the guys who are saying the same thing about our boy Jay Cutler now). Keep in mind Rivers hasn't really played yet.

And remember too ... Brees wasn't a stud until AFTER they drafted Rivers. Brees breakout year was 2004 - Rivers' rookie season:http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9007/brees0br.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)

[BroncoBuff]

Don't get me wrong, I despise the Bolts.

But I respect the way they skinned the Giants ... and for that matter, they also skinned the Falcons before that on the Michael Vick deal. I would HATE to have Vick on my team.

The only problem the Chargers had was that Brees unexpectedly became a real stud after they worked the Rivers deal, making for an awkward situation. After Lynch blasted Brees and hurt his shoulder, they were able to maneuver him out of town a couple months ago ... but even with the injury it was still a bit of a soap opera. Schottenheimer and the players wanted to keep Brees. I've seen interviews with Rivers, and I think I know why. He seems like a goofy, Gomer-Pyle gung-ho simpleton.

[-Slap-]

Jury is still out on that - WAY out.

In fact, I'll make you a gentleman's wager Rivers surpasses Brees. "How soon we forget" ... in the 2004 draft, many of the hip draft-niks were betting Rivers would be the best pro of the three (alotta the guys who are saying the same thing about our boy Jay Cutler now). Keep in mind Rivers hasn't really played yet.

And remember too ... Brees wasn't a stud until AFTER they drafted Rivers. Brees breakout year was 2004 - Rivers' rookie season:http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/9007/brees0br.jpg (http://imageshack.us/)
I've never liked Rivers' mechanics. I really don't see any particular similarities to Cutler, except as you mentioned, some scouts preferred him to more highly publicized QBs in his draft class.

I agree Brees' game didn't blossom until after Rivers was on the roster, but his play the last two seasons should dispel all doubts. I don't see the wisdom in ditching a proven young quarterback in the hopes your unproven young quarterback can play.

Why, so AJ Smith can feel good about himself?

You might also want to look a little deeper into Brees' situation in San Diego. In 2003, he was throwing to mega head case David Boston, one trick pony Tim Dwight and a very young Eric Parker. Antonio Gates was a raw rookie from the Kent State basketball team.

In 2004, The Chargers traded for Keenan McCardell, a move that was initially hooted at by many less perceptive people on this board, but it completely opened up the Chargers offense. The Parker/McCardell tandem suddenly gave the Chargers a respectable starting WR duo and Antonio Gates blossomed into the most explosive TE in football.

As long as there are no lingering effects from his shoulder injury, I'm confident Brees will outplay Rivers in 2006 and beyond.

[BroncoBuff]

I've never liked Rivers' mechanics.
Come to think of it .... he throws like Vince Young!

I agree Brees' game didn't blossom until after Rivers was on the roster, but his play the last two seasons should dispel all doubts. I don't see the wisdom in ditching a proven young quarterback in the hopes your unproven young quarterback can play.
That's a tough call ... Schottenheimer and the players agreed with you. Like I said, the shoulder injury gave Smith the "cover" to make his choice .... cause something had to give there.

As long as there are no lingering effects from his shoulder injury, I'm confident Brees will outplay Rivers in 2006 and beyond.
Okay, my friend ... a gentleman's wager. We'll settle up in 2012. ^5

[-Slap-]

Okay, my friend ... a gentleman's wager. We'll settle up in 2012. ^5
Unless one of them washes out of the League sooner.

^5

[Kaylore]

Put me in Slap's column as a Brees>Rivers person (even though I've said as much many times before.) I'm not convinced that Rivers is going to be anything more than a more sober Kerry Collins. I think the fact that the coaching staff and the players were all upset about going with Reivers says it all. Rivers looks awkward out there. Brees just gets it.

[Clockwork Orange]

Put me in the column that thinks it's hysterical that the Bolts, for the longest time, had no QB, then they had too many and now they may have none again.

[BroncoInferno]

Brees is twice the quarterback Rivers will ever be.

I doubt it. I've never been impressed with Brees when he faces a challenging defense. His numbers in such games are almost always mediocre. The thing I loved about Rivers coming out of college were his instincts. You can not teach that. I think, unfortunately for us, he is going to be a very good QB in this league, especially with his supporting cast.

[BroncoInferno]

Put me in Slap's column as a Brees>Rivers person (even though I've said as much many times before.) I'm not convinced that Rivers is going to be anything more than a more sober Kerry Collins. I think the fact that the coaching staff and the players were all upset about going with Reivers says it all. Rivers looks awkward out there. Brees just gets it.

Go back and look at Rivers at NC State That's a guy who gets it. His instincts are phenomenal. I know the NFL is a much different ballgame, but Rivers has that quality that great QBs need and that you can't teach.

I don't think Brees does get it, personally; not in the sense you mean, anyway. I think he's a guy who puts up nice numbers when he's surrounded by the likes of LT and Gates, but even with that crew his performances tended to be on the mediocre side in important games and games against legit defenses.

[youcandoit1687]

when i read the title of this thread i thought to myself...."did somebody actually think that the orange mane needed to be informed of this?" its obvoius if you just look at the years before brees played well, they were about the same players wise, just 4-12. after adding antonio gates, keenan mccardell, and drew brees playing better, they wer 12-4. keenan and antonio may have been worth and extra 2 or 3 wins but SD needs a QB to lead them. look at the last game of the season. LT is a key cog but he had career years on a team that was way below 500 before brees' performance rose

[-Slap-]

Go back and look at Rivers at NC State That's a guy who gets it. His instincts are phenomenal. I know the NFL is a much different ballgame, but Rivers has that quality that great QBs need and that you can't teach.

I don't think Brees does get it, personally; not in the sense you mean, anyway. I think he's a guy who puts up nice numbers when he's surrounded by the likes of LT and Gates, but even with that crew his performances tended to be on the mediocre side in important games and games against legit defenses.
You have nothing to back that up. Look at Brees' numbers last year (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=5479).

September Passing Rushing Fumbles
GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD Fum Rec
09/11 DAL L 24-28 Yes 35 18 51.4 209 2 2 65.1 2 21 1 2 2.0 2 0 0 0
09/18 @DEN L 17-20 Yes 23 15 65.2 175 0 1 70.0 4 41 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
09/25 NYG W 45-23 Yes 22 19 86.4 191 2 0 133.1 0 0 1 -1 -1.0 -1 0 0 0



October Passing Rushing Fumbles
GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD Fum Rec
10/02 @NE W 41-17 Yes 24 19 79.2 248 2 0 137.5 0 0 1 -1 -1.0 -1 0 0 0
10/10 PIT L 22-24 Yes 35 20 57.1 219 1 1 73.4 1 6 2 3 1.5 7 0 0 0
10/16 @OAK W 27-14 Yes 20 14 70.0 164 1 0 111.3 2 12 1 -5 -5.0 -5 0 0 0
10/23 @PHI L 17-20 Yes 40 23 57.5 299 2 2 77.0 3 29 1 9 9.0 9 0 1 0
10/30 KC W 28-20 Yes 43 25 58.1 324 3 1 95.5 0 0 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0



November Passing Rushing Fumbles
GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD Fum Rec
11/06 @NYJ W 31-26 Yes 27 20 74.1 270 1 1 102.4 1 8 2 -2 -1.0 -1 0 1 0
11/20 BUF W 48-10 Yes 33 28 84.8 339 4 0 149.1 1 2 1 -1 -1.0 -1 0 1 0
11/27 @WAS W 23-17 Yes 44 22 50.0 215 0 3 35.7 3 20 1 2 2.0 2 0 0 0



December Passing Rushing Fumbles
GAMEDATE Opp RESULT GS Att Comp Pct Yds TD Int Rate Sac Yds Att Yds Avg Lg TD Fum Rec
12/04 OAK W 34-10 Yes 22 17 77.3 160 2 0 127.1 2 12 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
12/11 MIA L 21-23 Yes 52 35 67.3 279 2 1 85.3 3 34 3 11 3.7 5 1 1 0
12/18 @IND W 26-17 Yes 33 22 66.7 255 1 2 74.7 1 8 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
12/24 @KC L 7-20 Yes 33 18 54.5 161 1 1 65.3 1 8 5 31 6.2 8 0 0 0
12/31 DEN L 7-23 Yes 14 8 57.1 68 0 0 69.9 3 22 0 0 0 0 0 1 0


He only had one really terrible game all year, week 12 @ Washington.

In 2004, he played well in the Chargers' playoff loss to New York, his only post season game so far.

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
2004 nyj L,17-20 | 31 42 319 2 1 | 5 17 0

As far as getting it, I think Brees is a tough guy and an underrated leader. You see all these free agents trying to avoid New Orleans, but Brees was eager to accept the challenge of rebuliding the franchise.

[Clockwork Orange]

As far as getting it, I think Brees is a tough guy and an underrated leader.

Absolutely. He took the ball in a meaningless game, the last game of the season and the last before he hit unrestricted free agency without complaint. His worst case scenario came true when he got his shoulder torn up in that game, yet he never blasted the coaching staff or the organization for it, even on his way out the door. Quite the contrast from someone like John Abraham (who several around here wanted the Broncos to give the moon and stars for), a guy who sat out playoff games due to his fear of suffering further injury right before free agency.

Brees is a team guy, a tough guy and a class act. If his shoulder can get back to 100% the Saints made a teriffic purchase.

You see all these free agents trying to avoid New Orleans, but Brees was eager to accept the challenge of rebuliding the franchise.

And he was immediatly rewarded.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/football/nfl/05/23/bc.fbn.bush.number.ap/p1_bush_five.jpg

[Kaylore]

Go back and look at Rivers at NC State That's a guy who gets it. His instincts are phenomenal. I know the NFL is a much different ballgame, but Rivers has that quality that great QBs need and that you can't teach.

I don't think Brees does get it, personally; not in the sense you mean, anyway. I think he's a guy who puts up nice numbers when he's surrounded by the likes of LT and Gates, but even with that crew his performances tended to be on the mediocre side in important games and games against legit defenses.
I totally disagree. Anyone who's watched Drew Brees play knows he's a great athlete and a very accurate passer. He makes good choices, often under duress, and can make some great throws.

As for watching Rivers' college footgage, that has little to do with how good he is now. Personally the way you described Brees is how I saw Rivers at NC state. He was a very very good college QB, but I'm not wowed by him right now and personally think Brees is the better player. And he is.

[boltaneer]

I totally disagree. Anyone who's watched Drew Brees play knows he's a great athlete and a very accurate passer. He makes good choices, often under duress, and can make some great throws.

As for watching Rivers' college footgage, that has little to do with how good he is now. Personally the way you described Brees is how I saw Rivers at NC state. He was a very very good college QB, but I'm not wowed by him right now and personally think Brees is the better player. And he is.

This is coming from a Chargers fan and from one who didn't want to see Brees go.

But having said that, I tend to agree with Broncoinferno. Brees often puts up very good numbers against lower tier defenses and pad his stats in blowouts but has trouble coming through in the clutch... not always, but for the most part. This is not a total slam on Marty because he has changed his ways a bit but I think some of Brees' struggles late in games has to do with Marty's conservative style. On more than a couple occasions Brees has fumbled in the last five minutes because the playcalling asked for two runs up the gut and a pass attempt on third and long.

And I also disagree with the statement that Brees is a very accurate passer. He a very good decision maker and has learned to minimize his mistakes but his passes rarely hit receivers in stride and tend to lay out his receivers too much. It's no secret that his long ball is possibly the worst in the NFL but he's become a crafty quarterback who can look off safties well and while not a fast guy, he's very elusive in the pocket.

But I think one of his biggest problems is his height. While quarterbacks don't throw over linemen, but more through passing lanes, it doesn't hurt him there as much as it does in his ability to scan the field. The impressive thing about Brees though is that he still makes good decisions where to throw the ball.

The reason, however, that I didn't want to see Brees go is because I think he is good enough to win a championship with. The defense is finally shaping up and while it still has some work to do, if it does reach it's potential, having a smart, veteran quarterback should get you the championship. While the team isn't desperate to win now, like Kansas City would be, with Brees at the helm, it's poised to win it all. With Rivers, it make take a couple of more years.

On to Rivers, the exciting thing about him is that he's considered to be strong in those areas where Brees is not. Maybe except for the deep ball, but his deep ball isn't terrible. His quick release and his leadership skills are the most exciting things about him. There are numerous quote froms players who have already been won over by his hard work and leadership skills and training camp hasn't even started yet.

One other thing, Rivers has already been paid a big chunk of his bonuses. He received $3.5 million initially and $6.6 million in a roster bonus last year. That's over $10 million of the $18 million he's getting. The rest is spread out until 2011. The Chargers have been very good at managing the cap since AJ Smith and company have arrived here.

[FantomForce]

Here's what Rivers has, the greatest back in the league no ?, a decent reciving core that can be great at times. And the one thing that Brees lacked early in his carrer Antonio Gates. Rivers will have a good year not great, he will be in a sense a far better "Trent Dilfer". Saying that he will have to rely on the defense to win a lot of ball games and learn how to manage a clock. What he will have to deal with that Brees never had to is a right in the mangament, let's face it unless Marty goes 6-0 early in the season he will probably be gone! So my advice to all boltaneers is to give the ball to LT as much as possible, he needs to average 30 touches a game or kiss Marty good-bye and all the weight will end up on Rivers shoulders and only disaster can follow