Which Bronco deserves Hall of Fame Membership?

[JCMElway]

I say Zimmerman. Most dominant player at his position while he was a Bronco.

[SoCalBronco]

Why not all of the above?

[youcandoit1687]

well i wasnt alive to see gradishar but i would think that SS,TD, and zimm should all be locks and that atwater should be strongly considered

[Bronco_Beerslug]

SS is in when it's time. Randy Gradishar, no one else comes close.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Everyone but TD.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Everyone but TD.

Don't get mad because TD ran all over the chiefs all those times. Just be grateful that he didn't play longer than he did and couldn't plow the CHiefs for yards and td's. Plain and simple, TD is one of the best of the last 20years, and he should go to the Hall

Also ur precious LJ will never be half the man or player TD was and will b lucky to have TD's stats.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Don't get mad because TD ran all over the chiefs all those times. Just be grateful that he didn't play longer than he did and couldn't plow the CHiefs for yards and td's. Plain and simple, TD is one of the best of the last 20years, and he should go to the Hall

No.

[BABronco]

No. No to what? That TD killed the chiefs .. or that he would have been amazing back ... or that he should be in the h.o.f. ?

[Spider]

all of the above ...............

[BroncoMan4ever]

No.

How r u gonna say no, his stats are on par with players like Sayers and he had one of the greatest 4 year statistical run as a RB ever. How do u think of denying a man who ran for over 2000yards in 1 season win 2 super bowls, set records in the playoffs and super bowls that will never be broken, was super bowl MVP and league MVP.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

How r u gonna say no, his stats are on par with players like Sayers and he had one of the greatest 4 year statistical run as a RB ever. How do u think of denying a man who ran for over 2000yards in 1 season win 2 super bowls, set records in the playoffs and super bowls that will never be broken, was super bowl MVP and league MVP.

Nein.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Nein.


BULLSH!T!!!!!!

[Jason in LA]

Zimmerman has to get in sooner or later. Only 10 players have been on two all decades teams. Seven of them made it on the first ballot. The 8th one made it on the second. The 9th player was either a punter or kicker, so he doesn't really count. I think Zimmerman has been passed over 2 or 3 times now.

Shannon Sharpe is a shoe in. There is no question about that.

Atwater's name will come up, but I don't see him getting in. He was good enough to be in the conversation, but not good enough to get in.

I can't comment on Randy. I wasn't around to see him play. But it sounds like he's getting a raw deal, and it looks like he won't get in.

People will say that TD didn't play long enough. But when looking at his accomplishments, his list is longer than just about any other RB. In the playoffs, when it counts the most, TD is by far better than everybody else. It's not even close. 152 yards per game. #2 is Riggins at 111 yards per game. 5.9 YPC. Dickerson is second at 5.2 YPC. He has over 1000 yards in the playoffs in only 8 games. Sure, longevity means a lot, but sometimes people put too much stock into it. TD has accomplished more than enough to make it into the HOF.

I think about it like this, many players have a few years where they are truely great. Look at Emmit Smith. During the Super Bowl run he was truely great. But after the Super Bowl run, he was just good for a few years, then just average for a few more years. Then he was just playing out the string, going after a record, those last couple of years. Why does a bunch of good years, and then some average to below average years, justify his great years? If Emmit had retired after their final Super Bowl, would he be any less great than what he was after gaining all those extra yards? Why, because he didn't finish his career off with a bunch of average years. Why does a player need a bunch of average years, where they pad their stats, to justify their great years?

Longevity, in a sense, makes no sense.

If TD had stayed healthy, and had a few years at 1300 yards, then a couple around 1000, he'd have about 13,000 yards and over 100 TDs, and would be a shoe in for the HOF. But he was a 2000 yard back, went over 1700 yards twice, and went over 1500 yards three straight years. Why would he need a few 1300 yard seasons and a couple 1000 yard season to justify those great seasons that he put up? And those are seasons that most backs never got close to.

TD got to levels that only a select few RBs made it to. He was truely dominant. It's a shame that he may not make it to the HOF. He was head and shoulders above backs like Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis, but I've heard talk of both of them making it in because they were able to stay healthy enough to pad their stats with a bunch of good to average/below average years. But were either of those players ever great? TD was.

[TexanBob]

All of them plus Karl Mecklenberg and Louis Wright.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

BULLSH!T!!!!!!

Nyet.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Zimmerman has to get in sooner or later. Only 10 players have been on two all decades teams. Seven of them made it on the first ballot. The 8th one made it on the second. The 9th player was either a punter or kicker, so he doesn't really count. I think Zimmerman has been passed over 2 or 3 times now.

Shannon Sharpe is a shoe in. There is no question about that.

Atwater's name will come up, but I don't see him getting in. He was good enough to be in the conversation, but not good enough to get in.

I can't comment on Randy. I wasn't around to see him play. But it sounds like he's getting a raw deal, and it looks like he won't get in.

People will say that TD didn't play long enough. But when looking at his accomplishments, his list is longer than just about any other RB. In the playoffs, when it counts the most, TD is by far better than everybody else. It's not even close. 152 yards per game. #2 is Riggins at 111 yards per game. 5.9 YPC. Dickerson is second at 5.2 YPC. He has over 1000 yards in the playoffs in only 8 games. Sure, longevity means a lot, but sometimes people put too much stock into it. TD has accomplished more than enough to make it into the HOF.

I think about it like this, many players have a few years where they are truely great. Look at Emmit Smith. During the Super Bowl run he was truely great. But after the Super Bowl run, he was just good for a few years, then just average for a few more years. Then he was just playing out the string, going after a record, those last couple of years. Why does a bunch of good years, and then some average to below average years, justify his great years? If Emmit had retired after their final Super Bowl, would he be any less great than what he was after gaining all those extra yards? Why, because he didn't finish his career off with a bunch of average years. Why does a player need a bunch of average years, where they pad their stats, to justify their great years?

Longevity, in a sense, makes no sense.

If TD had stayed healthy, and had a few years at 1300 yards, then a couple around 1000, he'd have about 13,000 yards and over 100 TDs, and would be a shoe in for the HOF. But he was a 2000 yard back, went over 1700 yards twice, and went over 1500 yards three straight years. Why would he need a few 1300 yard seasons and a couple 1000 yard season to justify those great seasons that he put up? And those are seasons that most backs never got close to.

TD got to levels that only a select few RBs made it to. He was truely dominant. It's a shame that he may not make it to the HOF. He was head and shoulders above backs like Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis, but I've heard talk of both of them making it in because they were able to stay healthy enough to pad their stats with a bunch of good to average/below average years. But were either of those players ever great? TD was.
Amen to the TD argument.

[JCMElway]

I made the poll with only one choice available to see who folks would choose if they had to pick just one. (It sucks, but it may turn out that only one of those guys gets in.)

As to who will get in I think Zim and Shannon are the only two. All on the list are certainly deserving. In my book I'd put Gradishar, Zim, and Shannon in before Atwater and TD.

[BroncoMan4ever]

Nyet.


Ur a dumbass. If u don't have an argument to prove us wrong(which will never happen) shut the FVCK up

[STBumpkin]

Zimmerman has to get in sooner or later. Only 10 players have been on two all decades teams. Seven of them made it on the first ballot. The 8th one made it on the second. The 9th player was either a punter or kicker, so he doesn't really count. I think Zimmerman has been passed over 2 or 3 times now.

Shannon Sharpe is a shoe in. There is no question about that.

Atwater's name will come up, but I don't see him getting in. He was good enough to be in the conversation, but not good enough to get in.

I can't comment on Randy. I wasn't around to see him play. But it sounds like he's getting a raw deal, and it looks like he won't get in.

People will say that TD didn't play long enough. But when looking at his accomplishments, his list is longer than just about any other RB. In the playoffs, when it counts the most, TD is by far better than everybody else. It's not even close. 152 yards per game. #2 is Riggins at 111 yards per game. 5.9 YPC. Dickerson is second at 5.2 YPC. He has over 1000 yards in the playoffs in only 8 games. Sure, longevity means a lot, but sometimes people put too much stock into it. TD has accomplished more than enough to make it into the HOF.

I think about it like this, many players have a few years where they are truely great. Look at Emmit Smith. During the Super Bowl run he was truely great. But after the Super Bowl run, he was just good for a few years, then just average for a few more years. Then he was just playing out the string, going after a record, those last couple of years. Why does a bunch of good years, and then some average to below average years, justify his great years? If Emmit had retired after their final Super Bowl, would he be any less great than what he was after gaining all those extra yards? Why, because he didn't finish his career off with a bunch of average years. Why does a player need a bunch of average years, where they pad their stats, to justify their great years?

Longevity, in a sense, makes no sense.

If TD had stayed healthy, and had a few years at 1300 yards, then a couple around 1000, he'd have about 13,000 yards and over 100 TDs, and would be a shoe in for the HOF. But he was a 2000 yard back, went over 1700 yards twice, and went over 1500 yards three straight years. Why would he need a few 1300 yard seasons and a couple 1000 yard season to justify those great seasons that he put up? And those are seasons that most backs never got close to.

TD got to levels that only a select few RBs made it to. He was truely dominant. It's a shame that he may not make it to the HOF. He was head and shoulders above backs like Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis, but I've heard talk of both of them making it in because they were able to stay healthy enough to pad their stats with a bunch of good to average/below average years. But were either of those players ever great? TD was.

I was in the camp that he just didn't play long enough, but you have convinced me. TD for the Hall!!!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Ur a dumbass. If u don't have an argument to prove us wrong(which will never happen) shut the FVCK up

não

[Jason in LA]

I was in the camp that he just didn't play long enough, but you have convinced me. TD for the Hall!!!

I'm glad we can see eye to eye on topics that count. The Broncos!

[Spider]

Gradishar has only 2 votes ?
It was a pleasure to watch that man play ....... Offenses feared him ......... 3 rd and short , give me Randy , he WILL make the play ...........

[ludo21]

all of the above ...............


:yep:

Gradisher deserves it, SS is a lock, and Zimm should as well.

The others were solid, but wont hjave enough to get in imo,

[BroncoMan4ever]

I am in the group that thinks TD's stats even though he didn't play long are good enough to get him into the hall. I mean he was a beast in Denver, is there a RB of the last 20years not counting Barry and Emmitt who was more dominant or better than him.
He was the unltimate player, teams knew he was going to get the ball and they couldn't do anything about it. 3rd and 3 u knew TD would get u 4 yards. 3rd and goal u knew he would take it in for 6.

I don't think longevity should matter, he played longer than Gayle Sayers and both retired due to knee injuries and had similar stats(TD's r a little better) and TD won 2 super bowls. That should be first ballot hall of fame.

Offenses wanted a player like him and defenses feared him.

[12th man]

Where is the "all of the above" option? well I had to go with Sharpe. Greatest TE of all time. can't argue with that. but seriosly, all of them deserve it.

[12th man]

I am in the group that thinks TD's stats even though he didn't play long are good enough to get him into the hall. I mean he was a beast in Denver, is there a RB of the last 20years not counting Barry and Emmitt who was more dominant or better than him.
He was the unltimate player, teams knew he was going to get the ball and they couldn't do anything about it. 3rd and 3 u knew TD would get u 4 yards. 3rd and goal u knew he would take it in for 6.

I don't think longevity should matter, he played longer than Gayle Sayers and both retired due to knee injuries and had similar stats(TD's r a little better) and TD won 2 super bowls. That should be first ballot hall of fame.

Offenses wanted a player like him and defenses feared him.
I totally agree. but since he did not have a long career, it might take a while for him to get in the hall. I garuntee he will not be in first year of eligibility.

[Spider]

About TD ........... He doesnt have the years , but he has everything else , then some ...... 2000 K rushing in a single season .........Check .........
SB MVP ....... check .........
back to Back sb wins .Check
The Man smashed all post season records .........

[JCMElway]

Where is the "all of the above" option? well I had to go with Sharpe. Greatest TE of all time. can't argue with that. but seriosly, all of them deserve it.

If I put in an all of the above option that choice would have 90-98% of the vote. Having folks only choose one makes for good discussion. :approve:

[12th man]

I totally agree. but since he did not have a long career, it might take a while for him to get in the hall. I garuntee he will not be in first year of eligibility.
not that he shouldn't be voted in his fist year, but because the people voting are pricks and don't vote Bronco. even when a lot of Broncos deserve to be in.

[Jason in LA]

Just to add on to what I've already said, defining moments is one factor that I hear all the time. TD has a ton of defining moments to go along with rings and stats. He's just missing longevity. But in a lot of cases longevity just means average to below averages years to pad the stats. Emmit Smith is just as great with or without his final five years. But take away his final five years and he's not the all time rushing leader. He'd be 5th on the list if it wasn't for those final 5 years, where he went over 1000 yards only twice. He'd be behind Curtis Martin without those final 5 years. Would anybody put him below Martin in status without those five years?

[AlphaOmega]

Big Play Shay, without a doubt! 8')

[Spider]

Well , I am in the Camp always has been TD should be eligible for the HOF......
John Riggins got in on his post season play , TD destroyed him , so now they use John Riggens has longevity , TD Did more in less time ........
but as Bronco fan , I should be used to watching Great players get the shaft .........

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Well , I am in the Camp always has been TD should be eligible for the HOF......
John Riggins got in on his post season play , TD destroyed him , so now they use John Riggens has longevity , TD Did more in less time ........
but as Bronco fan , I should be used to watching Great players get the shaft .........

I'm guessing Riggins got in on the strength of fact that he scored almost DOUBLE the touchdowns of Terrell Davis.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I looked up Riggens stats for the first time. Dude, if he's in and TD doesn't get in, they should burn the HOF down. Check out these stats.

| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1982 atl | 9 | 78 299 3.8 5 | 23 185 8.0 0 |
| 1983 atl | 14 | 100 437 4.4 8 | 17 149 8.8 0 |
| 1984 atl | 15 | 353 1486 4.2 13 | 42 277 6.6 0 |
| 1985 atl | 16 | 397 1719 4.3 10 | 33 267 8.1 0 |
| 1986 atl | 16 | 343 1327 3.9 9 | 24 136 5.7 0 |
| 1987 atl | 12 | 203 875 4.3 2 | 25 199 8.0 0 |
| 1988 atl | 9 | 113 488 4.3 1 | 22 171 7.8 0 |
| 1989 was | 12 | 201 834 4.1 4 | 7 67 9.6 0 |
| 1990 was | 10 | 123 475 3.9 6 | 7 60 8.6 0 |
| 1991 was | 16 | 78 248 3.2 11 | 1 5 5.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 129 | 1989 8188 4.1 69 | 201 1516 7.5 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

Your stats are wrong.

[Arkansas Bronco]

I voted Atwater. Sharpe is a lock so no sence voting his way because he will be in the hall.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Gerald Riggs? Ha!

[Spider]

I looked up Riggens stats for the first time. Dude, if he's in and TD doesn't get in, they should burn the HOF down. Check out these stats.

| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1982 atl | 9 | 78 299 3.8 5 | 23 185 8.0 0 |
| 1983 atl | 14 | 100 437 4.4 8 | 17 149 8.8 0 |
| 1984 atl | 15 | 353 1486 4.2 13 | 42 277 6.6 0 |
| 1985 atl | 16 | 397 1719 4.3 10 | 33 267 8.1 0 |
| 1986 atl | 16 | 343 1327 3.9 9 | 24 136 5.7 0 |
| 1987 atl | 12 | 203 875 4.3 2 | 25 199 8.0 0 |
| 1988 atl | 9 | 113 488 4.3 1 | 22 171 7.8 0 |
| 1989 was | 12 | 201 834 4.1 4 | 7 67 9.6 0 |
| 1990 was | 10 | 123 475 3.9 6 | 7 60 8.6 0 |
| 1991 was | 16 | 78 248 3.2 11 | 1 5 5.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 129 | 1989 8188 4.1 69 | 201 1516 7.5 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
thats what I am saying bro

[Crushaholic]

I'm going to beat Hogan to the punch and submit the name of Floyd Little. He's the "other" player to have his jersey retired. He should be in the HOF...

http://dim.com/~jbettin/floyd/

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Will the real John Riggins please stand up? Here are his real stats:



+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1971 nyj | 14 | 180 769 4.3 1 | 36 231 6.4 2 |
| 1972 nyj | 12 | 207 944 4.6 7 | 21 230 11.0 1 |
| 1973 nyj | 11 | 134 482 3.6 4 | 23 158 6.9 0 |
| 1974 nyj | 10 | 169 680 4.0 5 | 19 180 9.5 2 |
| 1975 nyj | 14 | 238 1005 4.2 8 | 30 363 12.1 1 |
| 1976 was | 14 | 162 572 3.5 3 | 21 172 8.2 1 |
| 1977 was | 5 | 68 203 3.0 0 | 7 95 13.6 2 |
| 1978 was | 15 | 248 1014 4.1 5 | 31 299 9.6 0 |
| 1979 was | 16 | 260 1153 4.4 9 | 28 163 5.8 3 |
| 1981 was | 15 | 195 714 3.7 13 | 6 59 9.8 0 |
| 1982 was | 8 | 177 553 3.1 3 | 10 50 5.0 0 |
| 1983 was | 15 | 375 1347 3.6 24 | 5 29 5.8 0 |
| 1984 was | 14 | 327 1239 3.8 14 | 7 43 6.1 0 |
| 1985 was | 12 | 176 677 3.8 8 | 6 18 3.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 175 | 2916 11352 3.9 104 | 250 2090 8.4 12 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

[Spider]

I'm guessing Riggins got in on the strength of fact that he scored almost DOUBLE the touchdowns of Terrell Davis.
If I want any shít out of you , I will scrape it off your teeth

[Jason in LA]

My bad on the stats. I looked up Gerald Riggs. I hit the wrong link.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

My bad on the stats. I looked up Gerald Riggs. I hit the wrong link.

Gerald has comparable stats to TD...HOF? :giggle:

[Jason in LA]

Hitting the wrong link doesn't change the argument for TD, but it did get like 100 degrees hotter when I notice that I posted the wrong stats.

[12th man]

I'm going to beat Hogan to the punch and submit the name of Floyd Little. He's the "other" player to have his jersey retired. He should be in the HOF...

http://dim.com/~jbettin/floyd/
This just proves my point that the voters don't like to vote broncos. When Little retired he was in the Top Ten Rushing All Time. and over 12,000 purpose yards. How insulting to Little that he is not in the hall. it's a damn shame.

[Jason7730]

Sharpe goes first, (all time -stats etc), then I have to go with Mr. Gradishar. (how many tackles per yr. bob) I say over 200! Anyway, T.D. (Who from the first time I saw him in a pre-season game did what he had to do, which happened to be to knock somebody out on special teams, in japan I think?). Man, and then Zim and then my man #27. Atwater was the Safety 'back in tha day' who put the fear into the opposing offenses.
But really, we all know the bias for getting into Canton...
and that bias does not favor us. The thing we have as Bronco fans (as an entity) is the knowledge of football and the crazed emotion to root for our team. We have had many, many great players I.E tombstone, louie w., billy t., lyle a., frank t. etc., but all the players in that poll I truly believe proper enshrinement!!!

[Spider]

Sharpe goes first, (all time -stats etc), then I have to go with Mr. Gradishar. (how many tackles per yr. bob) I say over 200! Anyway, T.D. (Who from the first time I saw him in a pre-season game did what he had to do, which happened to be to knock somebody out on special teams, in japan I think?). Man, and then Zim and then my man #27. Atwater was the Safety 'back in tha day' who put the fear into the opposing offenses.
But really, we all know the bias for getting into Canton...
and that bias does not favor us. The thing we have as Bronco fans (as an entity) is the knowledge of football and the crazed emotion to root for our team. We have had many, many great players I.E tombstone, louie w., billy t., lyle a., frank t. etc., but all the players in that poll I truly believe proper enshrinement!!!
Man , 1 st post , and this guy knocks it out of the park ..kick áss post jbs .. post more often ;D

[Spider]

Man I love this , I am parked on a wide spot on the road , near greybull wyoming , and my connetion is solid not fast 56K but man I havent been knoked offf line yet .........

[Killericon]

Zimmer and Sharpe....and maybe TD.

[TexanBob]

I think there is still some sentiment among Dr. Z and some others for Rich "Tombstone" Jackson as the veterans committee selection.

[Al Wilson]

I can't Believe Atwater isn't even in the HOF yet; most dominating safety I've seen other than Lott. And Sharpe is a lock.

[CBF1]

Well I did see Gradishar play and he was plain sick. Why he is not in the HOF already is one of lifes mysteries.

[Florida_Bronco]

Interesting thing happens when you compare the stats of Gale Sayers to TD...

Games: Davis (78) > Sayers (68)

Carries: Davis (1655) > Sayers (991)

Yards: Davis (7607) > Sayers (4956)

Career AVG: Davis (4.6) < Sayers (5.0)

TDs: Davis (60) > Sayers (39)

Gale Sayers is in the HOF and the only statistical advantage he has over TD is half a yard per carry average. If TD doesn't get in, we need to get new voters for the HOF.

[freak6]

SBMVPS

TD > Sayers

Rings

TD > Sayers

NFL MVP

TD > Sayers

[Florida_Bronco]

Another thing TD has going for him is the fact that he's working in broadcasting for the NFL Network now. Players who go into broadcasting generally aren't "forgotten" and have a better chance of getting in.

[Spider]

I am just glad others agree about TD ............

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Interesting thing happens when you compare the stats of Gale Sayers to TD...

Games: Davis (78) > Sayers (68)

Carries: Davis (1655) > Sayers (991)

Yards: Davis (7607) > Sayers (4956)

Career AVG: Davis (4.6) < Sayers (5.0)

TDs: Davis (60) > Sayers (39)

Gale Sayers is in the HOF and the only statistical advantage he has over TD is half a yard per carry average. If TD doesn't get in, we need to get new voters for the HOF.


So Priest goes in, too? His stats compare favorably to Sayers as well.

I don't know why Sayers is in the HOF...something different about the time period he played in.

[anthonypacino]

Gotta go with Randy on this one, Zim and Sharpe are locks...Sharpe before Zim, he'll go as a old timer, but Atwater would need Ronnie Lott numbers to get in, and Ronnie played CB for a little while, TD would also be be in if I had a say but in these modern times he just doesn't have the numbers, despite being the most dominate at his postion durning his time.

[Florida_Bronco]

So Priest goes in, too? His stats compare favorably to Sayers as well.

I don't know why Sayers is in the HOF...something different about the time period he played in.

Absolutely not, Priest wasn't even able to hold onto his starting job in Baltimore, while Sayers and Davis were great right out of the gate. Priest also never had any of the postseason play or records like TD does.

[youcandoit1687]

So Priest goes in, too? His stats compare favorably to Sayers as well.

I don't know why Sayers is in the HOF...something different about the time period he played in.

priests problem is that he has only been featured in one playoff game(which he did well in). as well as the fact that he is only in the top 25 in rush TDs and total TDs. his defining moment will be the TD season. i doubt he makes it in becuase of the lack of postseason glory but if he does make it in, i say its because of the 27 TD season

the difference between him and TD is the postseason(7-1 to 0-1), the SBs, and overall playoff prowess. they did have similar careers in that injury cut them down and will be remembered for a memorable season(2K and 27) and each had 4 1k seasons

[Florida_Bronco]

they did have similar careers in that injury cut them down and will be remembered for a memorable season(2K and 27) and each had 4 1k seasons

TD never rode the bench in Denver, unlike Holmes in Baltimore. TD also never had any average seasons that weren't cut short due to injury, Holmes did.

That says alot about a player in my opinion.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

priests problem is that he has only been featured in one playoff game.

From 1965 to 1971 the Bears didn't even qualify for the playoffs.



+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1965 chi | 14 | 166 867 5.2 14 | 29 507 17.5 6 |
| 1966 chi | 14 | 229 1231 5.4 8 | 34 447 13.1 2 |
| 1967 chi | 13 | 186 880 4.7 7 | 16 126 7.9 1 |
| 1968 chi | 9 | 138 856 6.2 2 | 15 117 7.8 0 |
| 1969 chi | 14 | 236 1032 4.4 8 | 17 116 6.8 0 |
| 1970 chi | 2 | 23 52 2.3 0 | 1 -6 -6.0 0 |
| 1971 chi | 2 | 13 38 2.9 0 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 68 | 991 4956 5.0 39 | 112 1307 11.7 9 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
If you're going to make a case for TD to be in the HOF because of Sayers, you absolutely have to include Priest, too.



as well as the fact that he is only in the top 25 in rush TDs and total TDs.
Priest blows away Sayers and Davis when it comes to touchdowns.

[youcandoit1687]

What did Sayers do in the postseason?



Priest beats TD and Sayers in touchdowns.


ya.....i didnt say that he didnt beat them. i just sed taht there are only 24 RBs(some FBs/HBs) in the HOF and to only be in the top 25 in one/two statistics puts a question mark in voters heads IMO. that is TDs main problem IMO, voters will have to look at his peak years of 95/96-98 if they vote him in as well as his playoff track record.

quite honestly, im not sure why sayers is in. i wasnt alive at that time and im not going to speculate on that. im just comparing current/recent players

[youcandoit1687]

From 1965 to 1971 the Bears didn't even qualify for the playoffs.



+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1965 chi | 14 | 166 867 5.2 14 | 29 507 17.5 6 |
| 1966 chi | 14 | 229 1231 5.4 8 | 34 447 13.1 2 |
| 1967 chi | 13 | 186 880 4.7 7 | 16 126 7.9 1 |
| 1968 chi | 9 | 138 856 6.2 2 | 15 117 7.8 0 |
| 1969 chi | 14 | 236 1032 4.4 8 | 17 116 6.8 0 |
| 1970 chi | 2 | 23 52 2.3 0 | 1 -6 -6.0 0 |
| 1971 chi | 2 | 13 38 2.9 0 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 68 | 991 4956 5.0 39 | 112 1307 11.7 9 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
If you're going to make a case for TD to be in the HOF because of Sayers, you absolutely have to include Priest, too.




Priest blows away Sayers and Davis when it comes to touchdowns.

dude i havent sed anything about sayers, jeez. i ahve only compared priest and TD, no more no less. sayers is from a very different era and is hard to factor so i didnt. emmitt smith, barry sanders, walter payton, etc. are all players that can be compared better because they played in similar leagues in terms of rules and schemes,etc. lets all just drop the sayers thing because it is comparing apples to oranges

[Bob's your Information Minister]

dude i havent sed anything about sayers, jeez. i ahve only compared priest and TD, no more no less.

Indeed. Some of your fellow fans are using Sayers HOF status to make a case for Terrell Davis, though.

IMO, neither Davis nor Priest deserves the HOF. Sayers or otherwise.

[Kaylore]

I think there is still some sentiment among Dr. Z and some others for Rich "Tombstone" Jackson as the veterans committee selection.
I'm of the mindset that DR. Z would let his family burn to death before he'd see another Bronco get into the hall of fame.

[BroncoBuff]

From 1965 to 1971 the Bears didn't even qualify for the playoffs.



+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1965 chi | 14 | 166 867 5.2 14 | 29 507 17.5 6 |
| 1966 chi | 14 | 229 1231 5.4 8 | 34 447 13.1 2 |
| 1967 chi | 13 | 186 880 4.7 7 | 16 126 7.9 1 |
| 1968 chi | 9 | 138 856 6.2 2 | 15 117 7.8 0 |
| 1969 chi | 14 | 236 1032 4.4 8 | 17 116 6.8 0 |
| 1970 chi | 2 | 23 52 2.3 0 | 1 -6 -6.0 0 |
| 1971 chi | 2 | 13 38 2.9 0 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 68 | 991 4956 5.0 39 | 112 1307 11.7 9 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
If you're going to make a case for TD to be in the HOF because of Sayers, you absolutely have to include Priest, too.




Priest blows away Sayers and Davis when it comes to touchdowns.
Bob ... plz post that "code" career numbers for TD

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Bob ... plz post that "code" career numbers for TD


+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1995 den | 14 | 237 1117 4.7 7 | 49 367 7.5 1 |
| 1996 den | 16 | 345 1538 4.5 13 | 36 310 8.6 2 |
| 1997 den | 15 | 369 1750 4.7 15 | 42 287 6.8 0 |
| 1998 den | 16 | 392 2008 5.1 21 | 25 217 8.7 2 |
| 1999 den | 4 | 67 211 3.1 2 | 3 26 8.7 0 |
| 2000 den | 5 | 78 282 3.6 2 | 2 4 2.0 0 |
| 2001 den | 11 | 167 701 4.2 0 | 12 69 5.8 0 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 81 | 1655 7607 4.6 60 | 169 1280 7.6 5 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

[BroncoBuff]

Thanks Bob .... man, 4 years of heaven, and then glory turns to tragedy.

At first glance, it's just not long enough for the HOF ... but then you look at Riggins, and his chump numbers, and you realize that longevity is not the gold standard for running backs.

But remember ... there are very few players actually in the Hall of Fame.


BOB! How about Priest's numbers ? ?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

BOB! How about Priest's numbers ? ?

+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1997 bal | 7 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
| 1998 bal | 16 | 233 1008 4.3 7 | 43 260 6.0 0 |
| 1999 bal | 8 | 89 506 5.7 1 | 13 104 8.0 1 |
| 2000 bal | 16 | 137 588 4.3 2 | 32 221 6.9 0 |
| 2001 kan | 16 | 327 1555 4.8 8 | 62 614 9.9 2 |
| 2002 kan | 14 | 313 1615 5.2 21 | 70 672 9.6 3 |
| 2003 kan | 16 | 320 1420 4.4 27 | 74 690 9.3 0 |
| 2004 kan | 8 | 196 892 4.6 14 | 19 187 9.8 1 |
| 2005 kan | 7 | 119 451 3.8 6 | 21 197 9.4 1 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 108 | 1734 8035 4.6 86 | 334 2945 8.8 8 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

And he's not done yet. :pray:

[Kaylore]

+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Rushing | Receiving |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| Year TM | G | Att Yards Y/A TD | Rec Yards Y/R TD |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| 1997 bal | 7 | 0 0 0.0 0 | 0 0 0.0 0 |
| 1998 bal | 16 | 233 1008 4.3 7 | 43 260 6.0 0 |
| 1999 bal | 8 | 89 506 5.7 1 | 13 104 8.0 1 |
| 2000 bal | 16 | 137 588 4.3 2 | 32 221 6.9 0 |
| 2001 kan | 16 | 327 1555 4.8 8 | 62 614 9.9 2 |
| 2002 kan | 14 | 313 1615 5.2 21 | 70 672 9.6 3 |
| 2003 kan | 16 | 320 1420 4.4 27 | 74 690 9.3 0 |
| 2004 kan | 8 | 196 892 4.6 14 | 19 187 9.8 1 |
| 2005 kan | 7 | 119 451 3.8 6 | 21 197 9.4 1 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+
| TOTAL | 108 | 1734 8035 4.6 86 | 334 2945 8.8 8 |
+----------+-----+--------------------------+-------------------------+

And he's not done yet. :pray:

Yes he is. He's said that even if he can come back he doesn't want to start.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Yes he is. He's said that even if he can come back he doesn't want to start.

He also said he wanted 200 carries. We ran the ball 500 times last year.

I listened to Priest on the radio the other day...he didn't sound like a player who was thinking about retirement.

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1121/stthereturna6bj.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Kaylore]

He also said he wanted 200 carries. We ran the ball 500 times last year.

I listened to Priest on the radio the other day...he didn't sound like a player who was thinking about retirement.

I am close with someone who has more connections to your team and directly to Priest than anyone on the radio and maybe even most of the team. He told her specifically that while he'd like to come back, he doesn't want to start.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

He told her specifically that while he'd like to come back, he doesn't want to start.

I never said otherwise.

200 carries does not equal starting.

[Pendejo]

Indeed. Some of your fellow fans are using Sayers HOF status to make a case for Terrell Davis, though.

IMO, neither Davis nor Priest deserves the HOF. Sayers or otherwise.

You definitely have an argument. But when you look at the numbers TD put up in the post season...it's hard to say that he's not a hall of famer. He was a big time player.

Who gives a sh!t anyway. The fact that only one Donk player is in the hall of fame pretty much sums up the whole thing...a la...the HOF is bullsh!t.

[Kaylore]

I never said otherwise.

200 carries does not equal starting.
I seriously doubt he'd even handle that. And the way she was talking he isn't jonesing for that much either.

[Florida_Bronco]

If you're going to make a case for TD to be in the HOF because of Sayers, you absolutely have to include Priest, too.

Priest blows away Sayers and Davis when it comes to touchdowns.

Bob, again you are putting too much emphasis on just numbers. Priest won't and shouldn't get into the HOF for the simple fact that he wasn't even a starter for most his time in Baltimore. HOF players don't have trouble winning starting jobs.

Davis quite honestly was unstoppable the 4 years before he was injured, and he did something that only 3 or 4 other running backs had ever done before at the time. Pile on all the postseasons accolades and an NFL MVP, and you can see why Davis is in a class by himself.

[orange crusher]

I can't Believe Atwater isn't even in the HOF yet; most dominating safety I've seen other than Lott. And Sharpe is a lock.

You never watched Dennis Smith play? This is no knock on Atwater because he was a great safety, but DS was better.

[errand]

There is no doubt that Sharpe will make it, so I'd have left him off the ballot. Gradishar should be the choice hands down.

[errand]

Don't get mad because TD ran all over the chiefs all those times. Just be grateful that he didn't play longer than he did and couldn't plow the CHiefs for yards and td's. Plain and simple, TD is one of the best of the last 20years, and he should go to the Hall

Also ur precious LJ will never be half the man or player TD was and will b lucky to have TD's stats.

TD was one of the game's best RB's from '95-'98...but,

Unfortunately for you Bob's probably right on this one. Davis dominated, but for only 4-5 years. I know it got Gale Sayers into the hall...but I doubt very seriously it would do likewise for TD.

TD will be one of those players that everyone will be saying "If he hadn't gotten injured...."

[errand]

People will say that TD didn't play long enough. But when looking at his accomplishments, his list is longer than just about any other RB. In the playoffs, when it counts the most, TD is by far better than everybody else. It's not even close. 152 yards per game. #2 is Riggins at 111 yards per game. 5.9 YPC. Dickerson is second at 5.2 YPC. He has over 1000 yards in the playoffs in only 8 games. Sure, longevity means a lot, but sometimes people put too much stock into it. TD has accomplished more than enough to make it into the HOF.


Longevity, in a sense, makes no sense.



TD got to levels that only a select few RBs made it to. He was truely dominant. It's a shame that he may not make it to the HOF.

One thing that'll go against Td is the fact that the Broncos have turned out 1,200 yard rushers every season...not to mention this past season where not one but two RB's almost gained 1,000 yards. Some hall voters will say it was the system that allowed him to have great years.

Your logic of putting TD in the hall because he dominated for 3 years would mean that Kurt Warner should also be in because he too dominated the NFL @ his position for 3 seasons...winning two MVP's...winning 1 SB (also named MVP) out of two appearances, his playoff stats were pretty damn good....and he came thru with alot of clutch performances as well.

As a Bronco fan, I'd love to see TD in the hall...but I don't see it happening.

[errand]

You never watched Dennis Smith play? This is no knock on Atwater because he was a great safety, but DS was better.

Dennis Smith sold his body out more than any other Bronco I can recall....too bad he was in the twilight of his career when Atwater came around.

I doubt anyone would have thrown over the middle against us had they both been in their prime together....well maybe they would, but their WR's heads had better of been on a swivel.

[errand]

All of them plus Karl Mecklenberg and Louis Wright.


Tombstone Jackson as well....the Broncos because of the fact they had the AFL's worst winning pct. have had numerous players slighted by the hall.

[Florida_Bronco]

TD was one of the game's best RB's from '95-'98...but,

Unfortunately for you Bob's probably right on this one. Davis dominated, but for only 4-5 years. I know it got Gale Sayers into the hall...but I doubt very seriously it would do likewise for TD.

TD will be one of those players that everyone will be saying "If he hadn't gotten injured...."

I disagree. Davis was by far and away an amazing running back who did things no other back in the NFL had done before (mainly his postseason stats) and being a member of the 2000 yard club really helps his chances.

[Florida_Bronco]

One thing that'll go against Td is the fact that the Broncos have turned out 1,200 yard rushers every season...not to mention this past season where not one but two RB's almost gained 1,000 yards. Some hall voters will say it was the system that allowed him to have great years.

This is true, but it could work the other way around as well, because they will have seen how much of a drop off there was from Davis to Gary, Anderson, Droughns and so forth.

Your logic of putting TD in the hall because he dominated for 3 years would mean that Kurt Warner should also be in because he too dominated the NFL @ his position for 3 seasons...winning two MVP's...winning 1 SB (also named MVP) out of two appearances, his playoff stats were pretty damn good....and he came thru with alot of clutch performances as well.

No, because Warner went a long time without even getting into the NFL, and when he did get into the NFL he had the benefit of an amazingly powerful offense. Once he didn't have that offense anymore, he wasn't half the player he was.

Davis started kicking ass his rookie season, and continued kicking ass until his injury in 1999...big difference in my opinion.

[errand]

TD never rode the bench in Denver, unlike Holmes in Baltimore. TD also never had any average seasons that weren't cut short due to injury, Holmes did.

That says alot about a player in my opinion.

TD's last 3 seasons were nothing but injury-riddled....

If you guys are gonna go with the "he dominated for 3 years" argument, then how could you leave Holmes out of consideration (sure his team sucked, but hate the team, not the player)...

BTW, Len Dawson was cut by the Pittsburgh Steelers....and if memory serves me right Johnny U was a waiver wire pick-up as well....they're in the hall, so Holmes riding the pine for a year or two in Baltimore means nothing. when his career is over people will say he did a pretty damn good job.

[errand]

quite honestly, im not sure why sayers is in. i wasnt alive at that time and im not going to speculate on that. im just comparing current/recent players

Because like TD, everyone knows that had he not been injured, he'd have been a lock.

[errand]

HOF players don't have trouble winning starting jobs.



Len Dawson and Johnny U were cut by NFL teams prior to finally catching on elsewhere.....

[Smiling Assassin27]

All of them deserve consideration--many won't even get that, i'll bet. IMO, each has a legit case but Gradishar should've already been in. Atwater HAS to be in--he helped change the position and did it at a consistently pro-bowl level.

[Florida_Bronco]

That's right, every season that wasn't riddled with injury, he was kicking ass.

Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas are definetly the exceptions, not the rule.

Priest is left out of consideration because he was not as dominate as TD, did not have the impact in the post season and only had a 1000 yard rushing season before getting behind a dominate O-line.

[dsmoot]

I loved Atwater and Smith at safety. However, I believe that game in game out, Louis Wright is the most overlooked Bronco when HOF talk comes around. He played a more difficult position IMO and he simply took on the other teams best receiver every game. You didn't hear much about him but while watching the games because they didn't spend much time throwing the ball his way. Additionally, he was much like Champ in that he was a great tackler and supported the run very well. He was always around the football. Had he played with the Pittsburgh Steelers, he would already be in the HOF. I take nothing away from anyone else mentioned but he was much better than most give him credit for - I think only one other message brings his name up which is mind boggling. Short of Champ Bailey, he is the best CB in Bronco history and only suffered for a lack of press nationally.

[ScottXray]

Gradishar would already be in but for the fact that he played at the same time as the "Steel Curtain", and Ham and Lambert.
Thanks to the east coast media bias the Steelers got all the press back then and Randy got short shrift. still happens. They are both in and he's getting shafted. He was at least as good as either of them, but doesn't have the rings to prove it.

Wright was great, so was Dennis Smith , all the players on the list deserve it, TD included. As stated he was DOMINANT. Nobody stopped him. Floyd Little never played on a winning team , so he never makes it.

Zimm and SS should be locks...the others probably get shafted , although Gradishar still "Might" make it...

Future... Rod Smith maybe...:wave:

[errand]

I disagree. Davis was by far and away an amazing running back who did things no other back in the NFL had done before (mainly his postseason stats) and being a member of the 2000 yard club really helps his chances.

Never said he didn't deserve to go...I just said I doubt he makes it because those who vote use different criteria...some look at stats only...others look beyond them. Sure Td was great, but for 3 only seasons. Kurt Warner was just as dominant for 3 seasons too...and he probably won't make either.

[errand]

That's right, every season that wasn't riddled with injury, he was kicking ass.

Len Dawson and Johnny Unitas are definetly the exceptions, not the rule.

Priest is left out of consideration because he was not as dominate as TD, did not have the impact in the post season and only had a 1000 yard rushing season before getting behind a dominate O-line.

The problem is half his career was injury riddled, shouldn't durability be considered as well? It's not like he retired on top of his game like Barry Sanders did. Look nopbody is disputing TD's accomplishments...they were quite possibly the best alltime for 3 seasons...but it was still only 3 seasons.

Yes, they were exceptions...but you said a player who had trouble starting elsewhere shouldn't be considered...and yet I gave you two examples of how perhaps they should.

So let me get this straight, Priest Holmes despite putting up some phenomenal stats over the course of the past 4 seasons doesn't deserve consideration because his team didn't make the playoffs alot? Well, the why is anyone bitching about Tombstone Jackson, Lionel Taylor, Randy Gradishar then? You're logic punishes the player because he's surrounded by garbage?

Good thing you weren't voting when Ernie Banks was eligible for MLB's Hall of Fame.

[NOLA Bronco]

First, it's Terrell Davis. Not Terrel.

HOF players should be compared to the players in their era. Zimm and Sharpe are locks. They were the top of their respective positions, for a long period of time. Were Atwater and Gradishar? Maybe, but not nearly at the same level.

As much as I want him to be, TD is not. He should have been. Without injury, he should have been. Does he compare in some ways to Gayle Sayers? Yes. Is he the reason the Broncos won 2 Superbowls? Hell yes. But he just didn't play long enough. Was he a transcendant athlete that changed his position? No. Has he been hurt by the success of every back that came after him? Yes. Though, if you really follow the Broncos, you would understand that stats aside, TD was far better than any of the backs who have replaced him. He doesn't get the credit he deserves, but he can't change that now. I do wish his number was retired. That would be the Broncos organization showing that he was the best there was. It might even help his case.

[Northman]

All of them deserve it.

[Northman]

First, it's Terrell Davis. Not Terrel.

HOF players should be compared to the players in their era. Zimm and Sharpe are locks. They were the top of their respective positions, for a long period of time. Were Atwater and Gradishar? Maybe, but not nearly at the same level.

As much as I want him to be, TD is not. He should have been. Without injury, he should have been. Does he compare in some ways to Gayle Sayers? Yes. Is he the reason the Broncos won 2 Superbowls? Hell yes. But he just didn't play long enough. Was he a transcendant athlete that changed his position? No. Has he been hurt by the success of every back that came after him? Yes. Though, if you really follow the Broncos, you would understand that stats aside, TD was far better than any of the backs who have replaced him. He doesn't get the credit he deserves, but he can't change that now. I do wish his number was retired. That would be the Broncos organization showing that he was the best there was. It might even help his case.


Length of time should not be the only factor for being in the HOF. Does it have some merit? of course. But, TD is one of 5 running backs to break 2,000 yds in a season and that within itself is a exclusive club. Secondly, he was a HUGE part of the broncos getting those SB rings which made him a extremely valuable player. Of course we've had backs gain 1,000 yds since then but none of them shined on a game to game basis like TD did. If Gayle Sayers belongs in the HOF than most certainly Terrell Davis does.

[Florida_Bronco]

The problem is half his career was injury riddled, shouldn't durability be considered as well? It's not like he retired on top of his game like Barry Sanders did. Look nopbody is disputing TD's accomplishments...they were quite possibly the best alltime for 3 seasons...but it was still only 3 seasons.

Yes, durability should be considered, BUT Terrell's injury wasn't just the garden variety. It's not like he kept tweaking hamstrings and couldn't play as a result, the guy damn near destroyed his knee.

Yes, they were exceptions...but you said a player who had trouble starting elsewhere shouldn't be considered...and yet I gave you two examples of how perhaps they should.

I guess I should have worded my post a little better. I don't believe they shouldn't be considered, but they better do something really impressive to be considered for the HOF. Whether or not Dawson and Unitas should have been voted in is something I'm not knowledgeable enough about to make an arguement either way.

So let me get this straight, Priest Holmes despite putting up some phenomenal stats over the course of the past 4 seasons doesn't deserve consideration because his team didn't make the playoffs alot? Well, the why is anyone b****ing about Tombstone Jackson, Lionel Taylor, Randy Gradishar then? You're logic punishes the player because he's surrounded by garbage?

That's not what I said, and I don't know that I'd call Priest's numbers phenomenal either. Phenomenal was TD running for 2008 yards in a single season despite only playing small parts of the blowouts. Priest was good, no doubt, but not phenomenal and not worthy of the HOF in my opinion. Davis did something only 4 other running backs had done at the time, what has Priest done like that?

[errand]

This is true, but it could work the other way around as well, because they will have seen how much of a drop off there was from Davis to Gary, Anderson, Droughns and so forth.



No, because Warner went a long time without even getting into the NFL, and when he did get into the NFL he had the benefit of an amazingly powerful offense. Once he didn't have that offense anymore, he wasn't half the player he was.

Davis started kicking ass his rookie season, and continued kicking ass until his injury in 1999...big difference in my opinion.

How much of a drop off could there have been when Mike Anderson set our rookie rushing record with 1487 yards rushing? Droughns didn't start until the 6th game, and still netted over 1200 yards himself.

And last season we got over 2,000 yards rushing from Anderson and Bell combined which doesn't guarantee that either or the other would have rushed for 2,000 alone...but I'm sure they'd have been pretty freaking close.

And TD was barely able to run the ball prior to his injury, once Elway hung them up...as his 3.1 avg per carry in '99 attests. Shouldn't the truly great ones be able to run the ball regardless of the circumstances?

As for Kurt Warner...his 3 year run was just as impressive as TD's. He tossed over 40 TD's in one season. Threw for 4,000 yards in another, won two MVP's, two conference titles, and a Super Bowl in which he was MVP as well. BTW, concussions and hand/wrist injuries limited his effectiveness as well the last couple of seasons with the Rams.

And don't even try to tell me he benefitted from playing for a high powered team, because my argument will be TD best years saw him playing for arguably for a great team during the NFL's greatest two year run in history. Not to mention the Rams didn't become a high powered team until Warner started for them.

His three year run of greatness was actually his 2nd NFL season...

In '99 he hit on 325 of 499 (65.1%) for 4353 yards (8.72 ypa) with 41 Td's and only 13 INT's (109.2 rating)....won the NFL MVP...Won SB XXXIV, after tossing for 414 yards in it and was the MVP of it. One of only 6 players in NFL history to be named MVP of the season and SB the same year

In '00 he hit on 235 of 347 (67.7%) for 3,429 with 21 Td's and 18 INTs (98.3 rating...this in only 11 games, his 16 game projection was 4,988 yards passing and 31Td's) He also began the season with 6 consecutive games tossing for 300 or more yards...tying an NFL record with Steve Young.

In '01 he hit on 375 of 546 (68.7%) for 4830 yards (2nd most in a season) 36 Td's with 22 int's (101.4 rating)This season concluded with him leading the Rams to 3 consecutive 500 point seasons...an NFL record

His 3 year run of greatness saw him hit on 935 of 1392 (67.2%) for 12,612 yards and 98 Td's

His 3 years were just as great as anything TD did....and guess what he won't be in the hall either.

Who cares when he played great....afterall you're the one who wants to dismiss TD's final 3 seasons and only count his first 4....What difference does it make if a guy was mediocre in the first 4 years, then plays like he's all-world...or plays like he's all world for the first 4 years, then doesn't the next 3?

According to you if he dominated for 3 years and set records, etc...he should go to the hall of fame. Who cares where those 3 years ended up over the course of his career?

[kmartin575]

TD is overrated. Nobody outside of Denver gives a crap about how "great" he was.

[Jason in LA]

One thing that'll go against Td is the fact that the Broncos have turned out 1,200 yard rushers every season...not to mention this past season where not one but two RB's almost gained 1,000 yards. Some hall voters will say it was the system that allowed him to have great years.



I hear that argument a lot, but don't agree with it. TD was on another level than the other Broncos RBs. None of them ran for 2000 yards in a season (TD would of had a good 2300 yards if he wasn't pulled so much). None of the other backs have even gotten to 1600 yards. And none of the other backs have done anything in the playoffs.

People are miss informed when they use that argument.

When TD is on the ballot, I'm going to write every damn voter. Make sure they know all the facts.

[bombay]

All of them with the possible exception of TD. Simply because of longevity issues. Sort of a parallel would be Kurt Warner. He was great for a 3-4 year period, then fell back to average/slightly above average for the past 5-6 seasons. At least Terrel left when it became obvious that he wasn't close to the player he had been.

[27atwater]

all

[Northman]

All of them with the possible exception of TD. Simply because of longevity issues. Sort of a parallel would be Kurt Warner. He was great for a 3-4 year period, then fell back to average/slightly above average for the past 5-6 seasons. At least Terrel left when it became obvious that he wasn't close to the player he had been.


Well, a serious injury will do that to a EVERY DOWN back. And the comparisons with Kurt Warner are not only silly but your also talking about two different positions. First off, Warner never had the kind of injury that TD had and TD didnt get that injury at a young age like McGahee from Miami. Hell, even McGahee's injury is a rare thing to come back from. TD fought to try and come back for two years from that injury and you guys act like he was 100% healthy again. Of course his stats will go down after something like that.

[FantomForce]

Sharpe the greatest tight end to ever line up

[footstepsfrom#27]

You can make a case for all of these guys. And BTW...the guy in my avitar deserves to be there too.

[ColtSteel25]

Where is the "all of the above" option? well I had to go with Sharpe. Greatest TE of all time. can't argue with that. but seriosly, all of them deserve it.


Tony G will be considered to be the greatest of all time when he's done.

[27atwater]

Tony G will be considered to be the greatest of all time when he's done.


I doubt that. He is dam good, but he is no Shannon.

[Northman]

Tony G will be considered to be the greatest of all time when he's done.


He cant even sniff Sharpe's jock. LOL

[ColtSteel25]

Tony G is gonna break many of Sharpes records in a few seasons.

[Pezman]

Tony G is gonna break many of Sharpes records in a few seasons.

Wow, you sure told us. I feel awed in your presence with that morsel of knowledge BSPimp. Did you come up with that all on your own or did you get a consultation? Here, let me spell it for you just so you know...

The word is con-sul-ta-tion
Translation - ColtSteelBSDude is not bright enough to give more than a generic tired book of smack reply.

Remember it well children, there will be a quiz.

[Northman]

Tony G is gonna break many of Sharpes records in a few seasons.


Tony G is already past his prime. He will be breaking out the wheelchair soon.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I doubt that. He is dam good, but he is no Shannon.
What a joke that is. Sharpe never had 102 catches.

You folks are poo-pooing longevity in this thread, well that's exactly why Sharpe's going to get into the HOF.

[Jason in LA]

Depends how long he sticks around, and how long he can play at a high level.

We also have to remember that he played in an offense that threw the ball more, and he was the go to guy in that offense.

In Sharpe's final nine years he in played in offenses that ran the ball more. Many of those years the Broncos had more options than just Sharpe. When he was in B'More for two years, they avoided the pass.

Tony had more opportunities.

Both are great players who will end up in the HOF.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

We also have to remember that he played in an offense that threw the ball more, and he was the go to guy in that offense.



Not until Vermeil arrived. Sharpe played in offenses where they threw it alot for the greater part of his career so you don't really have a discrepancy.

[Jason in LA]

What a joke that is. Sharpe never had 102 catches.

You folks are poo-pooing longevity in this thread, well that's exactly why Sharpe's going to get into the HOF.

That's because of Rod Smith, Ed McCaffrey, and a number of 1000 yard RBs. Not because he wasn't good enough to get that many catches.

Tony G had to catch all those passes because the Chiefs could never put together a complete team.

Rod Smith had 113 catches in '02, and he missed the end of the season. But who else were they going to throw it to that year? Eddie Quitterson? Rod had a better season the year before, when he only had 100 catches.

Point is that some players put up monster stats because they are the only option.

[Northman]

What a joke that is. Sharpe never had 102 catches.

You folks are poo-pooing longevity in this thread, well that's exactly why Sharpe's going to get into the HOF.


He did have over 200 yds receiving in one game. Who was that again? ROFL!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Point is that some players put up monster stats because they are the only option.

Sorry but Sharpe was on Broncos teams where he was the best receiver for a long time. Rod Smith and Ed McCaffery didn't show up until Sharpe was a veteran.

[Inkana7]

What a joke that is. Sharpe never had 102 catches.

You folks are poo-pooing longevity in this thread, well that's exactly why Sharpe's going to get into the HOF.
Sharpe was never the prime target of his offense.

You chief fans pretty much ruin every thread made in this forum. Go back to your chiefshuddle where they dont allow outside fans. You'll be free to talk about the glory days of Super Bowl IV there.

[Jason in LA]

Not until Vermeil arrived. Sharpe played in offenses where they threw it alot for the greater part of his career so you don't really have a discrepancy.

Where did you come up with that?

Sharpe started his career when Reeves was the coach. Reeves ran the ball too much with RBs who weren't all that great. Sharpe played for Reeves for his first two years. The final nine years was spent in run first offenses.

I'd say there were only two years where he played in a pass first offense. '92 and '93, when Wade Phillips was the head coach, and Jim Fassel brought the west coast offense to the Broncos.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Sharpe was never the prime target of his offense.


Maybe because he wasn't good enough? Tony was.

[Inkana7]

Maybe because he wasn't good enough? Tony was.
...Yeah.

Or maybe it's because he had Rod, Eddie Mac, and a stellar running game throughout most of career?

[Jason in LA]

Bob is making up stuff as he goes. He clearly doesn't know his history.

Saying that Sharpe played the bulk of his career in offenses that threw the ball more is just wrong.

How long have you been watching football Bob?

[Northman]

Bob is making up stuff as he goes. He clearly doesn't know his history.

Saying that Sharpe played the bulk of his career in offenses that threw the ball more is just wrong.

How long have you been watching football Bob?


No kidding, Elway used to complain cause Reeves didnt want to pass the ball. It wasnt until Wade Phillips took over ( then by Shanahan ) that the passing game opened up alltogether.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Where did you come up with that?

The Broncos threw the ball around 30 times a game for the majority of Sharpe's career.

The Ravens threw it more than 30 times a game both years Sharpe was in Baltimore.

[Champ4prez]

sharpe helped his team win 2 superbowls along with his nice stats..what has gonzo helped the chefs do? underachieve is my guess

[footstepsfrom#27]

What a joke that is. Sharpe never had 102 catches.

You folks are poo-pooing longevity in this thread, well that's exactly why Sharpe's going to get into the HOF.
Bob, I've seen you say some idiotic stuff in here but I think you just lowered the bar another notch. Fourteen season's isn't enough longevity to qualify for the HOF? Retiring as the NFL's all time reception and yardage leader for tight ends won't cut it either I guess, huh?

Sharpe redefined the position and has a couple of Superbowl rings, the best tight end of his era and maybe ever. To suggest he doesn't have the longevity...well only an utter numbskull would say something like that.

[ColtSteel25]

sharpe helped his team win 2 superbowls along with his nice stats..what has gonzo helped the chefs do? underachieve is my guess


You can say that with any player who was on that SB team. While both in their prime (which it can be argued that TonyG is still in his) Tony was/is a more dominant player. No one player can win it all for a team, its funny how people here compare players with the number of rings they have. Thats like me saying Trent Dilfer is better than Peyton Manning because Dilfer has the ring and Manning does not.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Let's dispel this argument once and for all.

In his career, Tony Gonzalez's teams have thrown the ball an average of 525.5 times per season, or 32.8 times per game.

In his career, Shannon Sharpe's teams threw the ball an average 529.9 times per season, or 33.1 times per game.

[Jason in LA]

The Broncos threw the ball around 30 times a game for the majority of Sharpe's career.

The Ravens threw it more than 30 times a game both years Sharpe was in Baltimore.

Bob, you are talking out of your ass.

The Broncos were a running team for the bulk of Sharpe's career. And the Ravens were a horrible passing team, mostly because of bad QBs and no WRs.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Bob, you are talking out of your ass.

The Broncos were a running team for the bulk of Sharpe's career. And the Ravens were a horrible passing team, mostly because of bad QBs and no WRs.

Stop making stuff up to stay in the argument. You don't have to lie to kick it.
Who's lying? I crunched the numbers.

In his career, Tony Gonzalez's teams have thrown the ball an average of 525.5 times per season, or 32.8 times per game.

In his career, Shannon Sharpe's teams threw the ball an average 529.9 times per season, or 33.1 times per game.

[Northman]

You can say that with any player who was on that SB team. While both in their prime (which it can be argued that TonyG is still in his) Tony was/is a more dominant player. No one player can win it all for a team, its funny how people here compare players with the number of rings they have. Thats like me saying Trent Dilfer is better than Peyton Manning because Dilfer has the ring and Manning does not.


Actually your arguement would have some merit if it was strictly for the Broncos. Problem is, when the Ravens made their run in the playoffs on the way to their Super Bowl win Sharpe was making the key plays in those games. Tony G has NEVER taken over a game like that.

[ColtSteel25]

Actually your arguement would have some merit if it was strictly for the Broncos. Problem is, when the Ravens made their run in the playoffs on the way to their Super Bowl win Sharpe was making the key plays in those games. Tony G has NEVER taken over a game like that.


Are you telling me TonyG has never taken over a game?

[Northman]

Are you telling me TonyG has never taken over a game?


Thats exactly what im saying.

[Florida_Bronco]

Errand, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'll admit you bring up some very interesting points, but I'm going to stand by my original statement that TD should be in the HOF and not Priest.

[ColtSteel25]

Thats exactly what im saying.

And thats definately a retarded statement.

[Northman]

And thats definately a retarded statement.


Well, you would know. You've been spewing the most retarded **** on this board all day. LOL

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Errand, I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'll admit you bring up some very interesting points, but I'm going to stand by my original statement that TD should be in the HOF and not Priest.

Not because of Sayers...but if you wanted to pimp his playoff success I guess that would be a good reason.

[ColtSteel25]

Well, you would know. You've been spewing the most retarded **** on this board all day. LOL

another example how donk fans can't accept reality because basically everything Ive said is true.

[No1BroncoFan]

Why not all of the above?
What bugs me is the answer you get when you ask "Which will likely get into the HOF?" Instead of all of the above, then answer becomes one of the above. Gradishar has been ignored for so long it would take a miracle. Davis didn't play long enough (though a 6th round pick who accomplishes what he has should be an automatic). Atwater and Zimmerman were stuck in a "small market" far from the glamour of New York.

Only Sharpe will make it. Like Elway, he was so far beyond anyone else to play the position the HOF can't ignore him.

Ben

[Northman]

another example how donk fans can't accept reality because basically everything Ive said is true.

Actually, everything you've said is garbage. Sharpe is worlds better than Gonzo but your in denial. I cant help you with your depression of accepting that. ROFL!

[ColtSteel25]

Actually, everything you've said is garbage. Sharpe is worlds better than Gonzo but your in denial. I cant help you with your depression of accepting that. ROFL!


How is he worlds better? Please explain.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Sharpe is better because he is a Broncos fan on a Broncos message board. End of story.

[Champ4prez]

How is he worlds better? Please explain.

the man does have 3 rings right..with the stats to back it up? gonzo does have good numbers but thats all he can bring to the table..its a harsh reality aint it? just like peyton manning had crazy numbers but has no rings yet..so he'll always be remembered as the great qb who couldnt win the big game, like dan marino..

[Northman]

How is he worlds better? Please explain.


I dont have time to spell it out for you. He's done it in the playoffs, he's done it in a single game, he's been part of multiple Super Bowl appearances. Gonzo has been part of a high powered offense for most of his career yet has never taken over a game ( at least anything meaningful ), has not even APPEARED in a Super Bowl. Sharpe not only did it with one team but TWO. This is a no contest, Gonzo is a decent TE but he cant hold Sharpe's jock. I know your upset, but you'll get over it someday.

[Northman]

Sharpe is better because he is a Broncos fan on a Broncos message board. End of story.


Oh yea, and im sure there are a lot of Sharpe fans who would claim Sharpe to be better on you board right Dickhead? God, your a idiot sometimes.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Oh yea, and im sure there are a lot of Sharpe fans who would claim Sharpe to be better on you board right Dickhead? God, your a idiot sometimes.

No. That is a Chiefs message board. Most everyone there thinks Gonzalez is better.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

In the end this entire debate is pointless. They will both be hall of famers.

[Northman]

No. That is a Chiefs message board. Most everyone there thinks Gonzalez is better.


And see, here that doesnt really apply. There is a far more diverse group of posters here. Although i am a Broncos fan i can say objectively that Sharpe is better than Gonzo. As far as my outlook is concerned it isnt a KC/Den fan thing. I just look at what each player has accomplished in his career. But you would rather spin it to be a biased opinion instead.

[Champ4prez]

In the end this entire debate is pointless. They will both be hall of famers.

and youll still be a douchbag who brings nothin but gibberish

[Northman]

In the end this entire debate is pointless. They will both be hall of famers.


The Best thing you've said all day.

[bombay]

Well, a serious injury will do that to a EVERY DOWN back. And the comparisons with Kurt Warner are not only silly but your also talking about two different positions. First off, Warner never had the kind of injury that TD had and TD didnt get that injury at a young age like McGahee from Miami. Hell, even McGahee's injury is a rare thing to come back from. TD fought to try and come back for two years from that injury and you guys act like he was 100% healthy again. Of course his stats will go down after something like that.

You're wrong, of course. Two guys who had meteoric careers for about 4 years then dropped off precipitously. Position is irrelevant. Saying Warner wasn't injured is just ignorance. The problems with his thumb beginning in the 2002 season seriously affected his accuracy.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

and youll still be a douchbag who brings nothin but gibberish

Dude, I crunched those numbers. That's more than you'll ever bring to this place.

[Northman]

You're wrong, of course. Two guys who had meteoric careers for about 4 years then dropped off precipitously. Position is irrelevant. Saying Warner wasn't injured is just ignorance. The problems with his thumb beginning in the 2002 season seriously affected his accuracy.


Oh, so according to your intelligent logic recovering from a thumb injury is easier than from a knee injury? lmao. anyhow, Davis was hurt the following year after Elway retired which followed his 2,000 yd season. He was never able to recover from that no matter how many times he attempted to come back. Sure, Warner's thumb bothered him the two remaining years in St. Louis but it didnt effect him in NY and now in Arizona. And you say the positions are irrelevant? You dont know football very well do you? A back goes through far more abuse than a Qb does and it wasnt like Warner was hit a lot. It would be far easier for a Qb to come back from injury than a Rb.

[No1BroncoFan]

Oh yea, and im sure there are a lot of Sharpe fans who would claim Sharpe to be better on you board right Dickhead? God, your a idiot sometimes.
Sometimes? I've found Bob's the OrangeMane B*thch to be an idiot all the time!

Ben

[Northman]

Sometimes? I've found Bob's the OrangeMane B*thch to be an idiot all the time!

Ben


He may have his moments but he has surprised me from time to time. Its just a rare occurance. Ha!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Sometimes? I've found Bob's the OrangeMane B*thch to be an idiot all the time!

Ben

Really? Care to provide examples?

[sirhcyennek81]

My opinion? Simon Fletcher, Randy Gradishar, Steve Atwater, Dennis Smith, Louis Wright, Shannon Sharpe, Terrell Davis, Rod Smith.


:Broncos:

[bombay]

Oh, so according to your intelligent logic recovering from a thumb injury is easier than from a knee injury? lmao. anyhow, Davis was hurt the following year after Elway retired which followed his 2,000 yd season. He was never able to recover from that no matter how many times he attempted to come back. Sure, Warner's thumb bothered him the two remaining years in St. Louis but it didnt effect him in NY and now in Arizona. And you say the positions are irrelevant? You dont know football very well do you? A back goes through far more abuse than a Qb does and it wasnt like Warner was hit a lot. It would be far easier for a Qb to come back from injury than a Rb.

Please don't cry.

It's unbecoming.

[kamakazi_kal]

man all this TD in hof talk really makes me hate SOB

i really believe that if not for that jacka$$ TD would have just retired a year ago...... and would be a first ballot.........

[kamakazi_kal]

ohh and bob please........go back to chiefland.....please....

p.s. the only reason elway is in the hall.....they had no choice.... the HOF sux...........you wear blue and orange you get left out..period

[bombay]

By the by, I personally think Terrell Davis belongs in the hall. There's someting to be said for transcedent play, and two superbowl rings, even if a guy doesn't have a 10 year career.

And **** kansas city. Sh!t bbq.

[wabbit]

I lost a great deal of respoect for the HOF after the committee repeatedly ignored Gradishar.

I really believe Floyd Little belongs in the Hall, but I understand, to some degree, that he played on a terrible teams...and Denver isn't New York.

...but denying the greatness of Gradishar is inexcusable. He was as dominant at LB as any of the Steeler LBs already enshrined.

Screw 'em.

[Rausch]

As a rival fan, Atwater.

No contest and no thought required...

[Northman]

Please don't cry.

It's unbecoming.


Weak. Try again. Ha!

[Champ4prez]

i think atwater is the most deserving to go...how can you not get in with hits like this..watching this still brings tears to my eyes..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzIf3tERZck&search=denver%20broncos

[Northman]

God, i love that hit. Ahh, the memories. :)

[ColtSteel25]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tChBOGWE1E&search=dante%20hall

This was a good play as well.

[ColtSteel25]

This play is also a good one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yktTG1lY-3g&search=dante%20hall

[JCMElway]

This play is also a good one.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yktTG1lY-3g&search=dante%20hall

Yeah, that play is great, except for the THREE FLAGRANT BLOCKS IN THE BACK. That play makes me angry even to this day. I'm pretty sure that D Will could take it to the house if he were allowed to have his team block illegally as well.

[BABronco]

yeah .. that play should make every bronco fan sick

[ColtSteel25]

Yeah, that play is great, except for the THREE FLAGRANT BLOCKS IN THE BACK. That play makes me angry even to this day. I'm pretty sure that D Will could take it to the house if he were allowed to have his team block illegally as well.

Blocking in the back happens almost on everyplay, as does holding. Its the matter of getting caught or not. Bronco fans of all people should know what illegal blcking schemes are, youve been doing it for years now. Not to mentions putting substances on jerseys during games, but im not even gonna go there.

[Florida_Bronco]

Blocking in the back happens almost on everyplay, as does holding. Its the matter of getting caught or not. Bronco fans of all people should know what illegal blcking schemes are, youve been doing it for years now. Not to mentions putting substances on jerseys during games, but im not even gonna go there.

You are a fool. Our blocking schemes are not illegal according to the NFL rule book, despite the ignorance and whining of others like you.

Also, on the first link you posted...sure it was a good play, too bad it couldn't help the Chiefs win :spit:

[DHallblows]

Blocking in the back happens almost on everyplay, as does holding. Its the matter of getting caught or not. Bronco fans of all people should know what illegal blcking schemes are, youve been doing it for years now. Not to mentions putting substances on jerseys during games, but im not even gonna go there.

If you can realize and admit to all of the penalties that were in that play, how can you seriously call that a great play...or player for that matter?

[Florida_Bronco]

If you can realize and admit to all of the penalties that were in that play, how can you seriously call that a great play...or player for that matter?

Dante Hall is a pretty damn good player, I'll give him that, but he never would have scored on that play if we didn't get screwed.

[DHallblows]

Dante Hall is a pretty damn good player, I'll give him that, but he never would have scored on that play if we didn't get screwed.

I wouldn't say player, he's a third string WR on a team who's starter is Eddie Kennison...

He's a great athlete, I won't argue there, but WR? idk about that...

[Florida_Bronco]

I wouldn't say player, he's a third string WR on a team who's starter is Eddie Kennison...

He's a great athlete, I won't argue there, but WR? idk about that...

He's good at what he does, which is being a slot receiver who does damage after the catch and as a return man. Due to his size, I doubt he could ever be a featured receiver.

[Hogan11]

I lost a great deal of respoect for the HOF after the committee repeatedly ignored Gradishar.

I really believe Floyd Little belongs in the Hall, but I understand, to some degree, that he played on a terrible teams...and Denver isn't New York.

...but denying the greatness of Gradishar is inexcusable. He was as dominant at LB as any of the Steeler LBs already enshrined.

Screw 'em.

You got that right Wabbit.

[SureShot]

i think atwater is the most deserving to go...how can you not get in with hits like this..watching this still brings tears to my eyes..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzIf3tERZck&search=denver%20broncos

That might be the best hit of all-time. The Nigerian Nightmare was getting some run....until they miked up my man for Monday Night!

[errand]

Well, a serious injury will do that to a EVERY DOWN back. And the comparisons with Kurt Warner are not only silly but your also talking about two different positions. First off, Warner never had the kind of injury that TD had .

It's not silly to draw comparison between Kurt and TD. Both dominated their positions for a 3 year period. Both won titles, both won MVP's, both broke team and league records....Warner's passing stats were on parrallel with TD's rushing stats. Rushing for 2,000 yards is = to 4,8000 yards passing.

No, Kurt never blew out his knee. He just suffered broken wrist, and concussions, which I'm sure decimate a QB's effectiveness as much as a RB blowing out his knee would decimate his.

[Inkana7]

Blocking in the back happens almost on everyplay, as does holding. Its the matter of getting caught or not. Bronco fans of all people should know what illegal blcking schemes are, youve been doing it for years now. Not to mentions putting substances on jerseys during games, but im not even gonna go there.
You sir, are a fool.