New Lelie Thread

[Rascal]

Since the last one was hijacked let's use this one for future Lelie discussions.

[Atlas]

Since the last one was hijacked let's use this one for future Lelie discussions.


Why?? Don't you think the trolls will hijack this one too?

Anyway, I'm game. I think Lelie is great

[Jason in LA]

Oh no, not another Lelie thread. Yikes!

[-Slap-]

http://www.scenicphotographsbyvance.com/images/sh230b-The-Grand-Tetons.jpg

The Grand Tetons

[DomCasual]

Okay, I'll go back to the last thing I posted in the other thread before it was blown all to hell. Gil Brandt was saying on NFL Radio that he thought the trade that brought Tim Euhus to New Orleans today was a precursor to a trade that would bring him (Euhus) to Denver for Lelie. He speculated that there would be another team involved, and I would assume there would be other players, as well.

All of this led me to think (imagine a cartoonish thought balloon popping above my head), "There's a guy that plays in the NFL named Tim Euhus?" Honestly, I don't think I have ever heard of him.

I sure hope Ashlie Lelie is worth more than Tim Euhus. If he isn't, I think I would rather just enjoy watching him sit the season out. Tim Euhus just doesn't do much for me.

Oh, and he signs his autographs with a Bible verse. That's really irritating.
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/sportsautosttm/euhus.JPG

[Clockwork Orange]

Oh, and he signs his autographs with a Bible verse. That's really irritating.
http://webzoom.freewebs.com/sportsautosttm/euhus.JPG

Karl Mecklenburg does the same thing.

[Kaylore]

1 Corinthians 1:24 - Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

... yeah, I don't get it.

But I do hope we can get something half decent out of the trade. Practically speaking, it makes more sense in the long term to trade him and get a player than to let him go for nothing. Also if he's traded we can trade him away to the NFC to a team that won't bother us too much.

[Connecticut Bronco Fan]

Hilton, Zachary
Conwell, Ernie
Lawrie, Nate
Campbell, Mark
Euhus, Tim

These are currently the Tight Ends on the Saints Roster. I really liked Boo Williams, what ever happened to him?

[DomCasual]

One sidenote about the potential blockbuster Euhus for Lelie trade: Lelie wouldn't be a #1 in New Orleans any more than he would have been a #1 in Denver.

[DomCasual]

These are currently the Tight Ends on the Saints Roster. I really liked Boo Williams, what ever happened to him?
Hard not to like someone named Boo.

[BroncoBuff]

No offense Dom buddy, but no thanks:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5388/tim4ad.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[epicSocialism4tw]

Hard not to like someone named Boo.

What about Boo Euhus?

[NOLA Bronco]

Zach Hilton is 6-7. He will be a star in NOLA.


The Broncos should hold on to Lelie until camp starts. That way, when some team loses a WR and they are scrambling, Lelie will be available.

The Broncos have bigger needs than TE.

[Killericon]

Eric Johnson, please and thank you.

[Bronco Yoda]

http://www.themushroomkingdom.net/mariopedia/trophy/boo.jpg

That settles it!. We must....

[Kaylore]

My thoughts are we could trade with the following teams for Tight Ends who could use receivers:

San Fran
Miami
New England
Titans
Browns
Falcons

There's a few players I'd like to have, but I don't want to jinx anything.

[DomCasual]

I honestly think Daniel Graham/Ashlie Lelie makes sense for both teams. Of the realistic options, he would be my first choice.

[Atlas]

My thoughts are we could trade with the following teams for Tight Ends who could use receivers:

San Fran
Miami
New England
Titans
Browns
Falcons

There's a few players I'd like to have, but I don't want to jinx anything.

Send Lelie and a 3rd round pick to Atlanta for Algae Crumpler.

[Clockwork Orange]

I've got my heart set on getting Daniel Graham, but I know I'm setting myself up to be disappointed.

[youcandoit1687]

My thoughts are we could trade with the following teams for Tight Ends who could use receivers:

San Fran
Miami
New England
Titans
Browns
Falcons

There's a few players I'd like to have, but I don't want to jinx anything.

eagles too. lol rob the browns again!

id like to get either TE or DT help for us.IMo, those are the two positions we need most. a pass rush would be ncie as well but harder to find in quality

[Ballhawk]

Send Lelie and a 3rd round pick to Atlanta for Algae Crumpler.

Better than Gonzo IMO

[Clockwork Orange]

Send Lelie and a 3rd round pick to Atlanta for Algae Crumpler.

They already have their own Lelie in Atlanta. His name is Roddy White.

I also don't think the Falcons are all that interested in moving Crumpler.

[anthonypacino]

Oh, and he signs his autographs with a Bible verse. That's really irritating.

So did Luther Ellis...

[anthonypacino]

what about another deal with the Redskins for Chris Cooley? don't think it will happen but it would be intreasting

[Atlas]

They already have their own Lelie in Atlanta. His name is Roddy White.

I also don't think the Falcons are all that interested in moving Crumpler.

Atlanta does have a need for another WR. I guess it comes down to whether teams believe that Lelie will be better for them then he was for Denver. I mean let's face it a lot of teams think Plummer sucks and that in a new system Lelie could be great.

I'm sure Atlanta wants to keep Crumpler but maybe a Lelie and Alexander for Crumpler trade would work.

Denver would then have Crumpler, Scheffler and Jackson at TE

[Bronco Yoda]

hehe... another Redskin trade?
Would they even dare?

[Kaylore]

Eric Johnson, please and thank you.
I think this could be the guy. Everyone is talking themselves into believing Daniel Graham but that's a wet dream that won't happen. I wish people would quit talking about it.

[NOLA Bronco]

People - we couldn't get a 3rd round pick for Lelie, there is no way we get a top rate starter in exchange.

[youcandoit1687]

Send Lelie and a 3rd round pick to Atlanta for Algae Crumpler.

but how much of a blocker is he? hed be a nice pass catcher, especially since hed be used to rolling with the QB like he did in atlanta. i just see schef as a waste if we get alge. plus alge would be very expensive

[Killericon]

Send Lelie and a 3rd round pick to Atlanta for Algae Crumpler.

I only wish...It'd take at least a 2nd and a 3rd with Lelie to pry Vick's safety blanket away from him.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

The Patriots just drafted a wide receiver and they have alot of good young wide receivers on the team. I don't see them wanting Lelie.

[Clockwork Orange]

Atlanta does have a need for another WR. I guess it comes down to whether teams believe that Lelie will be better for them then he was for Denver. I mean let's face it a lot of teams think Plummer sucks and that in a new system Lelie could be great.

I'm sure Atlanta wants to keep Crumpler but maybe a Lelie and Alexander for Crumpler trade would work.

Denver would then have Crumpler, Scheffler and Jackson at TE

Vick is a worse passer than Plummer. Great athleticism, poor passer.

Crumpler is a Pro Bowl caliber TE, it would take plenty more than Lelie & Alexander to pry him out of there even if Atlanta wanted to trade him.

[DomCasual]

So did Luther Ellis...
My own favorite Luther Elliss story: The winter after Luther Elliss spent the season on IR with a back injury, I am driving through town (Salt Lake City) when I noticed a huge banner hanging from a church here. The banner read "POWER LIFTING FOR JESUS - WITH DENVER BRONCO LUTHER ELLISS! - Saturday Night"

So here's a guy who has a back injury that keeps him from his million-dollar-plus a year job, and he's power lifting for Jesus? What about power lifting for the friggen Denver Broncos, man?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

On the flipside, didn't they lose David Givens? And they drafted TE David Thomas, so they've got tight ends galore.

[Clockwork Orange]

On the flipside, didn't they lose David Givens? And they drafted TE David Thomas, so they've got tight ends galore.

They've also got Ben Watson and Graham is entering the final year of his contract. That's what's fueling the Graham speculation.

[youcandoit1687]

They've also got Ben Watson and Graham is entering the final year of his contract. That's what's fueling the Graham speculation.

and garret mills out of tulsa but i suspect he is HBack/ST material. i could see them wanting lelie but for a smaller contract and branch would be a head of him

[epicSocialism4tw]

My own favorite Luther Elliss story: The winter after Luther Elliss spent the season on IR with a back injury, I am driving through town (Salt Lake City) when I noticed a huge banner hanging from a church here. The banner read "POWER LIFTING FOR JESUS - WITH DENVER BRONCO LUTHER ELLISS! - Saturday Night"
So here's a guy who has a back injury that keeps him from his million-dollar-plus a year job, and he's power lifting for Jesus? What about power lifting for the friggen Denver Broncos, man?

Good to know that your priorities are in the right place! ;D

Forget the Savior of Mankind, get on the football field!

Anyhoo, I doubt that Mr. Elliss was doing the powerlifting if he was on IR. That doesnt make much sense.

[BroncoBuff]

Send Lelie and a 3rd round pick to Atlanta for Algae Crumpler.
Damn straight ... Crumpler is a red-zone DEMON!

They won't do that though .... Graham or Smith are the most we can hope for ...

BTW - aren't both those guys sons of former Broncos ?

.

.

[Atlas]

but how much of a blocker is he? hed be a nice pass catcher, especially since hed be used to rolling with the QB like he did in atlanta. i just see schef as a waste if we get alge. plus alge would be very expensive

Algae is a great blocker. He is 268 lbs or so and he packs a load. He was a much more accomplished blocker when he came into the league only the last few years has his recieving picked up.

[DomCasual]

I think this could be the guy. Everyone is talking themselves into believing Daniel Graham but that's a wet dream that won't happen. I wish people would quit talking about it.
I don't know - he's in the last year of his contract, and I'm not sure he is even starting this year, with Ben Watson there. And while New England did draft Chad Jackson, he's likely to struggle as a rookie. That leaves Troy Brown or Reche Caldwell to start opposite Deion Branch - yikes!

[Atlas]

Vick is a worse passer than Plummer. Great athleticism, poor passer.

Crumpler is a Pro Bowl caliber TE, it would take plenty more than Lelie & Alexander to pry him out of there even if Atlanta wanted to trade him.

That depends on how they view Lelie. I think he definatley has probowl potential.

OK Alexander, Lelie and a 4th. Hell, give them a 3rd?? It would be worth it.

[DomCasual]

Good to know that your priorities are in the right place! ;D

Forget the Savior of Mankind, get on the football field!

Anyhoo, I doubt that Mr. Elliss was doing the powerlifting if he was on IR. That doesnt make much sense.
Man, I'm all for Jesus! But Jesus is as much a Bronco fan as I am - I have it on good authority.

[Kaylore]

I don't know - he's in the last year of his contract, and I'm not sure he is even starting this year, with Ben Watson there. And while New England did draft Chad Jackson, he's likely to struggle as a rookie. That leaves Troy Brown or Reche Caldwell to start opposite Deion Branch - yikes!
If we got Graham for Lelie it would eliminate all my worries about losing Rick Smith and I'd start a cult to worship Ted Sundquist.

[Killericon]

If we got Graham for Lelie it would eliminate all my worries about losing Rick Smith and I'd start a cult to worship Ted Sundquist.

I'd sign up right away...that would be the trade of a lifetime.

[bcbronc]

That depends on how they view Lelie. I think he definatley has probowl potential.

OK Alexander, Lelie and a 4th. Hell, give them a 3rd?? It would be worth it.


heck, make it a second and have them throw in john abraham. why not, right.

[Killericon]

heck, make it a second and have them throw in john abraham. why not, right.

Maybe add Plummer and a first and get Kerney and Vick while we're at it?

This hypothetical is getting WAY out of hand.

[watermock]

Something is going down soon...Lelie is stupid...he has as good or better opportunity here than almost anywhere. Smith is long in the tooth, Walker is still rehabbing and the Claw is the Claw. Screw him and lets cut our losses and keep focus. I don't care if it's a conditional pick next year. Cut line.

[Taco John]

I'd rather watch him sit and send a message to him and anybody else who tries to pull this junk in the future.

[Atlas]

I'd rather watch him sit and send a message to him and anybody else who tries to pull this junk in the future.

If Denver can get value for him fine but otherwise keep him he won't sit out he'll be in uniform before the first game of the season.

[ClevelandBronco]

Another new thread for our third receiver and everybody else's second or third.

It's getting old.

[Kaylore]

I'd rather watch him sit and send a message to him and anybody else who tries to pull this junk in the future.
I can agree with that in principle, but if we can land a good player that will help us in the long term, why not trade and make everyone happy?

[eddie mac]

I can agree with that in principle, but if we can land a good player that will help us in the long term, why not trade and make everyone happy?

So that rules out Euhus and Johnson then.

[fontaine]

So that rules out Euhus and Johnson then.

I agree. There's is no freakin way we're trading for Euhus.

1. If the coaches wanted him THAT badly then why wait for a three team clusterfudge trade? Why not do the trade to Buffalo and get Euhus directly (since Buffalo just traded Euhus to NO only days ago).

2. Euhus is a poor blocker and a development player. We already have several of those guys.

What we need is a good blocker who can seal the edge and create running lanes.

Graham provides that.

LJ Smith is more of a polished pass catcher and Philly WILL NOT let him loose. Why would Philly trade a 70 catch TE when they need to get more wideouts? Doesn't make any sense, considering they don't have any other real depth at TE.

Eric Johnson? I don't know what to make of this guy. He supposed to be a good pass catcher and with VD ready he would be expendable.

I would prefer Graham, but wouldn't be too upset if we landed Eric Johnson either.

[MechanicalBull]

Has Lelie dropped so much that all we would get would be Euhus or could there be something more to that trade? Graham I think makes the most sense but I'm not getting my hopes up about it. Why not send him to Det. and whatever else for Dan Campbell and Charles Rogers and give Millen another WR?ROFL! There is no chance of this happening but Campbell is a great blocker and maybe Rogers could be had for an incentive laden contract and is in the doghouse anyway along with Mike Williams. Lelie would be a #2 in a Mike Martz offense.

[-Slap-]

LJ Smith is more of a polished pass catcher and Philly WILL NOT let him loose. Why would Philly trade a 70 catch TE when they need to get more wideouts? Doesn't make any sense, considering they don't have any other real depth at TE.
Some of the names popping up are wildly optimistic. Its like people think anyone except Gates or Gonzo is a possibility. LJ Smith, Alge Crumpler, Jason Witten. People can put those kind of thoughts out of their heads.

[broncohaven]

Karl Mecklenburg does the same thing.
It's still annoying.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I think it's for Gates. Why make **** up and say Crumpler? Go for the best TE in the league even if he is in the same division?

[27atwater]

Some of the names popping up are wildly optimistic. Its like people think anyone except Gates or Gonzo is a possibility. LJ Smith, Alge Crumpler, Jason Witten. People can put those kind of thoughts out of their heads.


Agreed. I still say Heiden or Eric Johnson. HOwever, being here in PA, I do hafta say that LJ is expendable and there are many who feel he didn't show up when needed the most last year. I highly doubt we get him, but of the names ya mentioned, I don't feel he is out of the realm of possibility.

[BroncoInferno]

I will be livid if we trade Lelie for freakuin Tom Euhus. If that is the best offer we can get, just make him sit. I still think Graham makes a ton of sense given his contract status coupled with the presence of Watson and the two rookies NE drafted, and the fact that there are supposedly three teams involved.

[-Slap-]

Agreed. I still say Heiden or Eric Johnson. HOwever, being here in PA, I do hafta say that LJ is expendable and there are many who feel he didn't show up when needed the most last year. I highly doubt we get him, but of the names ya mentioned, I don't feel he is out of the realm of possibility.
Philly is a tough town for any athlete. Anybody who expected LJ Smith to step forward and stop the meltdown going on in Philly last year is grasping.

[fontaine]

Philly won't trade LJ and I'm not sure they'll want Lelie.

They already have had enough of frail WRs who can't go over the middle.

[BroncoInferno]

Eric Johnson does not thrill me, either. He does have an 82 catch season under his belt, but I believe he missed the entire 2003 and 2005 seasons. This would be a panic trade given the injuries to Duke and Trusty, IMHO. If it isn't Graham, I can't see any TE who's likely to be available that'd be worth it. Get Graham, or let Lelie sit.

[DrFate]

My thoughts are we could trade with the following teams for Tight Ends who could use receivers:

San Fran
Miami
New England
Titans
Browns
Falcons

There's a few players I'd like to have, but I don't want to jinx anything.

MIA has Chambers and Booker - Lelie would be the #3 on that team too. He'd probably be #3 on the Falcons also.

[MechanicalBull]

Philly won't trade LJ and I'm not sure they'll want Lelie.

They already have had enough of frail WRs who can't go over the middle.

I don't think LJ Smith would be traded either but no matter who the supposed TE in the 3 way deal Lelie would not be going to that team he would go to the other team. I'd much rather him play out the year and walk without getting anything rather than getting Euhus if that's the only thing we would get.

[fontaine]

I don't think LJ Smith would be traded either but no matter who the supposed TE in the 3 way deal Lelie would not be going to that team he would go to the other team. I'd much rather him play out the year and walk without getting anything rather than getting Euhus if that's the only thing we would get.

Agreed on that. I see Euhus as nothing more than a project and projects we have plenty of. Gimme a blocking TE with soft hands who can start (Graham) so the pressure isn't on schef and we can CUT Alexander and his million $ cap charge.

I hate to let Lelie walk considering it would be setting a bad example but the guy brought it upon himself and to hell with him.

[SpringStein]

Eagles | Lelie's agent says team has shown no interest
Thu, 8 Jun 2006 07:24:39 -0700

Les Bowen, of the Philadelphia Daily News, reports Denver Broncos WR Ashley Lelie's agent, Peter Schaffer, said Wednesday, June 7, the Philadelphia Eagles have shown no interest in trading for Lelie.

[fontaine]

Eagles | Lelie's agent says team has shown no interest
Thu, 8 Jun 2006 07:24:39 -0700

Les Bowen, of the Philadelphia Daily News, reports Denver Broncos WR Ashley Lelie's agent, Peter Schaffer, said Wednesday, June 7, the Philadelphia Eagles have shown no interest in trading for Lelie.


Like I said, Philly and Andy Reid have had enough of weak one dimensional WRs who can't work the middle and overestimate their abilities in Pinkston, Mitchell etc.

[Old Dude]

... I still say Heiden or Eric Johnson. ...

Could be.

But I wonder whether the Browns would be willing to part with Heiden until Winslow shows he's really recovered. Doesn't seem likely to me.

If the rumors are true about the TE in question being better known for his blocking, that would tend to rule out Johnson. He's a converted WR and definitely better known for his receiving than his blocking.

[27atwater]

Could be.

But I wonder whether the Browns would be willing to part with Heiden until Winslow shows he's really recovered. Doesn't seem likely to me.

If the rumors are true about the TE in question being better known for his blocking, that would tend to rule out Johnson. He's a converted WR and definitely better known for his receiving than his blocking.


A huge Browns fan at the prison I work at (and yes he works there, not lives there) says they've been trying to trade Heiden for weeks now...if not longer. If we got Heiden from Clev, a team like TB or NO...or ATL who may wanna toss some of it's old 3-4 guys... could get ash and send sumthin to Clev. Noone in this trade could effect the other's long term positioning as far as rivalries, etc go. I see this as very possible.

[27atwater]

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133306

Heiden is a very good blocker and put of decent stats on an O that is simply awful overall.

[Steve Sewell]

I think this could be the guy. Everyone is talking themselves into believing Daniel Graham but that's a wet dream that won't happen. I wish people would quit talking about it.
Why is it a wet dream? Graham is in the last year of his contract and hadsnot been offered and extension. NE is loaded at TE with Watson and the 2 TE's they drafted this year. They also just traded Bethel Johnson to NO for Sullivan. Brady throws a lot of deep balls and Belicick got to see Lelie going deep first hand during the regular season. Plus, Lelie isn't as bad of a guy as he's made out to be, much like Corey Dillon isn't either...and Belicick picked up Dillon. So there is some history there.

The Pats are in a perfect position for this trade. We need a TE, they have too many, and they need a deep threat WR for this year.

I don't know why you think it's implausible that this could happen. It appears that the stars are aligned in this situation. Dan Graham could be a fixture in Denver for years to come, by the way. He's still pretty young.

[fontaine]

A huge Browns fan at the prison I work at (and yes he works there, not lives there) says they've been trying to trade Heiden for weeks now...if not longer. If we got Heiden from Clev, a team like TB or NO...or ATL who may wanna toss some of it's old 3-4 guys... could get ash and send sumthin to Clev. Noone in this trade could effect the other's long term positioning as far as rivalries, etc go. I see this as very possible.

The Broncos FO should be shot if they trade a young first round WR for a mediocre 30 year old TE with no upside.

[RhymesayersDU]

I say we have a revolutionary two-league trade where we trade Lelie to the Argonauts for Ricky.

;)

[Steve Sewell]

I say we have a revolutionary two-league trade where we trade Lelie to the Argonauts for Ricky.

;)

Would Ricky be under the CFL's drug policy for the year in Denver? If so, let's do it!!!!:thumbs:

[27atwater]

The Broncos FO should be shot if they trade a young first round WR for a mediocre 30 year old TE with no upside.

Think about it...reports state we are looking for the blocker rather than the pass catcher. Heiden is that. Ash has no value at this point, and any upside he does have won't be for us. The biggest thing people forget is that Ash just isn't that god. we can't expect too much.

We have traded quite a bit w/ Clev AND have traded w/ Atl recently. Clev just went 3-4 and can plunder the falcons who just went 4-3 for their extra LBs.


OK, here is a guess if it's not Graham.

We get Heiden
Browns get OLB DeMorrio Williams or RB TJ Duckett
Falcons get Ash

Clev is new 3-4. Atlanta just turned to 4-3. Williams seems odd man out. Clev is young at LB and needs the extras...even though they drafted a couple. If not OLB, then RB could be an option. W/ uber-bust Green, an average Suggs and RD having his issues of late, TJ Duckett would definitely see the rock.

[fontaine]

Think about it...reports state we are looking for the blocker rather than the pass catcher. Heiden is that. Ash has no value at this point, and any upside he does have won't be for us. The biggest thing people forget is that Ash just isn't that god. we can't expect too much.

We have traded quite a bit w/ Clev AND have traded w/ Atl recently. Clev just went 3-4 and can plunder the falcons who just went 4-3 for their extra LBs.


OK, here is a guess if it's not Graham.

We get Heiden
Browns get OLB DeMorrio Williams or RB TJ Duckett
Falcons get Ash

Clev is new 3-4. Atlanta just turned to 4-3. Williams seems odd man out. Clev is young at LB and needs the extras...even though they drafted a couple. If not OLB, then RB could be an option. W/ uber-bust Green, an average Suggs and RD having his issues of late, TJ Duckett would definitely see the rock.

Crennel is not going to trade for a shrimp LB or a bust at RB.

I know what you're saying, and Heiden could very well end up here, but it would still be a lousy trade.

[SpringStein]

I'd rather keep Lelie and lose him to FA and garner a 4th round Comp pick than trade for Heiden.

[DrFate]

What's the big deal with Graham? He has Putzier-like numbers. (although has has better TD numbers)

[ColtSteel25]

I wouldnt give up Lelie for anything less than a first day pick.

[ColtSteel25]

I see some Mod idiot on this board changed my avatar to someone that has gotten more pussy than 99.9% of the people on this site.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

What's the big deal with Graham? He has Putzier-like numbers. (although has has better TD numbers)

Graham is in a situation where he's splitting alot of time with the other tight end. He could start for someone and put up very good numbers.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I see some Mod idiot on this board changed my avatar to someone that has gotten more p***Y than 99.9% of the people on this site.

Just roll with it. The mods love to abuse people here.

[MechanicalBull]

I don't want Heiden at all. I found this on another board posted from a saints fan:on sirus radio they said something about how the saints traded courtney watson for the TE from the Bills to send him to denver along with another player(stallworth) Lelie would end up on the 3rd team and the saints would get 2 players from the 3rd team and a player from the Broncos.

Now I'm not sure if the poster is speculating about Stallworth or that was the name that was said on the radio report. Seems like he is just guessing its him since it says another player and has his name in parenthesis. So have fun picking this apart and taking guesses who the other Bronco would be.

[Rascal]

I'll take Stallworth and Euhus for Lelie though.

[27atwater]

I don't want Heiden at all. I found this on another board posted from a saints fan:on sirus radio they said something about how the saints traded courtney watson for the TE from the Bills to send him to denver along with another player(stallworth) Lelie would end up on the 3rd team and the saints would get 2 players from the 3rd team and a player from the Broncos.

Now I'm not sure if the poster is speculating about Stallworth or that was the name that was said on the radio report. Seems like he is just guessing its him since it says another player and has his name in parenthesis. So have fun picking this apart and taking guesses who the other Bronco would be.


now THAT is interesting

[fontaine]

I just don't see Shanahan making all this effort for a bunch of scrub players.

We already have depth at WR/TE.

What we need is a quality blocking TE so that we can cut Alexander and develop Schef. I don't see Shanahan trading away Lelie for Stallworth when we just got done drafting Marshall/Hixon and have Walker/Terrell on board.

I think Graham is the target. They just let Bethel Johnson go in a trade so a WR roster spot opened up and they have nothing for certain after Branch.

[Master___Pain]

What's the big deal with Graham? He has Putzier-like numbers. (although has has better TD numbers)

You mean aside form the fact that Graham is a devestating blocker who happens to have great hands? Don't forget that Graham was also the Mackey award (Best TE) winner his senior year, meaning he's not some converted WR that has to grow into the TE position. Dude knows how to block, is a a great pass catcher and is a redzone threat. You roll out a package with Alexander, Graham and possibly House in a jumbo goaline set and you are going to move some bodies.

Dan Graham is a perfect fit for Denver. We could be so lucky to get him here.

[27atwater]

where you see depth...i see a whole bunch of question marks. Wrs...Rod who is aging. Javon who is still hurt. Terrell who sux. Rooks who are, well, rooks. And TE depth? where?

[Master___Pain]

now THAT is interesting

Not if the broncos have to give up Lelie and another player to get Stallworth and the scrub TE. Another WR makes little sense. Between Rod, Walker, Terrell, Adams, Devoe, Marshall and Hixon I feel pretty good about the WR depth

[27atwater]

Not if the broncos have to give up Lelie and another player top get Stallworth and the scrub TE. Another WR makes little sense. Between Rod, Walker, Terrell, Adams, Devoe, Marshall and Hixon I feel pretty good about the WR depth


i doubt another top player would be involved. the focus is getting rid of ash...not dismantling the team.

[Lev Vyvanse]

Chiefs fans are retards, ask me how I know!

I'll take the bait. How do you know Chiefs fans are retarded?

[12th man]

i doubt another top player would be involved. the focus is getting rid of ash...not dismantling the team.
I don't know. If we get Stallworth out of the deal, it might be someone good leaving Denver. But what do the saints need? IM thinking someone on the defensive side of the ball.

[Master___Pain]

i doubt another top player would be involved. the focus is getting rid of ash...not dismantling the team.

Sorry, I did not mean top player, I meant "another player to get Stallworth" I fat fingered that one. My bad.

[Broncoman13]

Why are there so few people on this board that understand that another receiving option at TE is not what we need?? I have very little doubt that Scheff or White House can catch the ball. Very little doubt that they can get open. A WHOLE LOT OF DOUBT about their BLOCKING! So those that are screaming for pass catching TE's, please stop... or atleast think about what you're asking for!

We need a blocker. Daniel Graham is one of the best in the biz... and he couples great hands in addition to his blocking. This is a guy that won't run down the field and rack up 50-60 catches a season, but he'll be good for 30 or so and can give you 5 or more TD's in the redzone b/c of his blocking... yes blocking. He is a perfect fit for the PA Boot in and around the goal line. A better blocker than Hape and a better receiver and Hape did pretty well for us... you do the math!

[27atwater]

Middlebrooks?

I think Engleberger could be expendable.

[27atwater]

Why are there so few people on this board that understand that another receiving option at TE is not what we need?? I have very little doubt that Scheff or White House can catch the ball. Very little doubt that they can get open. A WHOLE LOT OF DOUBT about their BLOCKING! So those that are screaming for pass catching TE's, please stop... or atleast think about what you're asking for!

We need a blocker. Daniel Graham is one of the best in the biz... and he couples great hands in addition to his blocking. This is a guy that won't run down the field and rack up 50-60 catches a season, but he'll be good for 30 or so and can give you 5 or more TD's in the redzone b/c of his blocking... yes blocking. He is a perfect fit for the PA Boot in and around the goal line. A better blocker than Hape and a better receiver and Hape did pretty well for us... you do the math!


That's what I'm saying. It'll be a blocker. I just think that it's prolly someone dif from Graham. I think Shanny is cocky enuff to trade between contenders, but still think we go a dif route.

[Steve Sewell]

Just roll with it. The mods love to abuse people here.
Bob, you are the penultimate sado-masochist...Mr. Slave on South Park is loosely based on you. The only difference is that you wear a Chumps stormtrooper costume instead of dressing like the biker from the Village People.

[Steve Sewell]

You mean aside form the fact that Graham is a devestating blocker who happens to have great hands? Don't forget that Graham was also the Mackey award (Best TE) winner his senior year, meaning he's not some converted WR that has to grow into the TE position. Dude knows how to block, is a a great pass catcher and is a redzone threat. You roll out a package with Alexander, Graham and possibly House in a jumbo goaline set and you are going to move some bodies.

Dan Graham is a perfect fit for Denver. We could be so lucky to get him here.

He won that award over Shockey that year. I've heard that Dan is a really good guy as well. Anyone who follow's CU football knows that Dan Graham is an absolute stud...

[Rascal]

I think we can all agree that Graham would be ideal, and I think we can all agree that we are probably going to be disappointed.

[MechanicalBull]

I don't know. If we get Stallworth out of the deal, it might be someone good leaving Denver. But what do the saints need? IM thinking someone on the defensive side of the ball.

I think that person would be Lelie and then it would be someone else to equal out the value for Euhus. Maybe they want Roc:~ohyah!:
Smith, Walker and Stallworth sounds a lot better than Smith, Walker, and unproven Terrell or Watts. Graham makes more sense than Stallworth since he is a great blocker and can also catch, plus if Scheffler is the real deal than him and Graham on the goal line would be pretty nice. I want Graham over Stallworth but wouldn't mind either I just don't want Eric Johnson or Heiden.

[DrFate]

You mean aside form the fact that Graham is a devestating blocker who happens to have great hands? Don't forget that Graham was also the Mackey award (Best TE) winner his senior year, meaning he's not some converted WR that has to grow into the TE position. Dude knows how to block, is a a great pass catcher and is a redzone threat. You roll out a package with Alexander, Graham and possibly House in a jumbo goaline set and you are going to move some bodies.

Dan Graham is a perfect fit for Denver. We could be so lucky to get him here.
I can't speak to his blocking - but his numbers aren't impressive.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302195

You are talking about a guy who has never caught 40 balls in a season, a guy who has never caught 500 yards in a season. People have said him or Crumpler - Crumpler is a Pro Bowl TE. Graham isn't. You are talking about a guy who's average season to date is 25 catches and about 300 yards. Big deal.

If we need a blocker, but another OT out there.

[12th man]

I think that person would be Lelie and then it would be someone else to equal out the value for Euhus. Maybe they want Roc:~ohyah!:
Smith, Walker and Stallworth sounds a lot better than Smith, Walker, and unproven Terrell or Watts. Graham makes more sense than Stallworth since he is a great blocker and can also catch, plus if Scheffler is the real deal than him and Graham on the goal line would be pretty nice. I want Graham over Stallworth but wouldn't mind either I just don't want Eric Johnson or Heiden.
Yeah. I like the Smith Walker Stallworht trio. that would be awsome. I also wouln't mind Graham. He's big, a good blocker and good handsn. Reminds me of Carswell. So I would be happy with either coming to Denver.

[Champ4prez]

is there any reliabe source to us trying to get graham, or are these rumors? just wondering

[27atwater]

I think we can all agree that Graham would be ideal, and I think we can all agree that we are probably going to be disappointed.


best post of the thread.

[MechanicalBull]

I can't speak to his blocking - but his numbers aren't impressive.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302195

You are talking about a guy who has never caught 40 balls in a season, a guy who has never caught 500 yards in a season. People have said him or Crumpler - Crumpler is a Pro Bowl TE. Graham isn't. You are talking about a guy who's average season to date is 25 catches and about 300 yards. Big deal.

There is no chance it would be Crumpler, Gates, Gonzalez, Heap, Witten, Clark
I think everyone is just looking at realistic options and Graham is a good/very good all around TE. He can catch and he can block

[ColtSteel25]

I'll take the bait. How do you know Chiefs fans are retarded?


Hmmm, looks like people on here like to change other's posts. I guess thats the best anyone here can come up with.

[DrFate]

There is no chance it would be Crumpler, Gates, Gonzalez, Heap, Witten, Clark
I think everyone is just looking at realistic options and Graham is a good/very good all around TE. He can catch and he can block

I agree that there isn't any chance we get a Pro Bowl caliber player for Lelie. I just don't see what people are so hot/bothered about with Graham.

I'm not slamming the guy, and I realize he is a Colorado guy. And that's great. But I'm not sure we are getting value for what amounts to a blocking tight end who has had trouble staying healthy. He hasn't been anything more than a very mediocre player on a team that passes a ton.

[ColtSteel25]

Kinda sucks not having a Shannon Sharpe around anymore huh?

[Master___Pain]

I can't speak to his blocking - but his numbers aren't impressive.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302195

You are talking about a guy who has never caught 40 balls in a season, a guy who has never caught 500 yards in a season. People have said him or Crumpler - Crumpler is a Pro Bowl TE. Graham isn't. You are talking about a guy who's average season to date is 25 catches and about 300 yards. Big deal.

If we need a blocker, but another OT out there.

I don't think anyone is trying to anoint Graham as the next Tony Gonzales. What folks are trying to say is that Graham is exactly what the broncos seem to be looking for in a TE. A block first, catch second TE who is a redzone threat. You asked what the difference between Graham and Putz was. I told you. I think the Crumpler stuff was said tongue in cheek, I certainly never brought it up. I think it's a far getched dream to get Crumpler in here. Graham is a realistic player to get for Lelie.

BTW, any reason you left off the nearly 4 td catches per season? I'm not sure what there is to not like about Graham possibly being a bronco.

[DrFate]

A block first, catch second TE who is a redzone threat. You asked what the difference between Graham and Putz was. I told you. I think the Crumpler stuff was said tongue in cheek, I certainly never brought it up. I think it's a far getched dream to get Crumpler in here. Graham is a realistic player to get for Lelie.

BTW, any reason you left off the nearly 4 td catches per season? I'm not sure what there is to not like about Graham being a bronco.

I said in an earlier post that Graham has a better ability to find the endzone than Putzier. I think this team needs playmakers (which I have said in many a thread) and getting a blocking tight end doesn't help. We are hurting at RB and really hurting at TE. So we are trading a disgruntled WR for a TE that is an offensive downgrade from Putzier (and Putzier was nobody's All Star) (fewer catches, fewer yards, more TD production)

[NOLA Bronco]

Kinda sucks not having a Shannon Sharpe around anymore huh?

Kinda sucks that you need some more players just to make the playoffs, huh?

[12th man]

I don't think anyone is trying to anoint Graham as the next Tony Gonzales. What folks are trying to say is that Graham is exactly what the broncos seem to be looking for in a TE. A block first, catch second TE who is a redzone threat. You asked what the difference between Graham and Putz was. I told you. I think the Crumpler stuff was said tongue in cheek, I certainly never brought it up. I think it's a far getched dream to get Crumpler in here. Graham is a realistic player to get for Lelie.

BTW, any reason you left off the nearly 4 td catches per season? I'm not sure what there is to not like about Graham possibly being a bronco.
I want Graham because of the points you stated. He is a good blocking TE with good hands. He is a blocking TE first. I think we have a lot of catch first TE on this team. and that's fine, I like that. but we need someone that can realy block and can be effective in the red zone. I know we have carswell but he is a 13 year vet. I think House is going to be good for us in certain situations like in goaline when we could use his blocking and soft hands, but I don't think he could go out and play as effective anymore as he once was. But at the same time, am not going to put anything against House. after his accident I thought he wouldn't even return. but look at him now. Anyway, I think Graham could be the guy that could play a lot of the snaps.

[NOLA Bronco]

Stallworth(less) is crap. If you think he is the answer, Denver is better off signing Lelie to big bucks. He drops more than Lelie and is more fragile. He is a head case.

I would rather have John Stallworth now than Dante Stallworthless

[27atwater]

Kinda sucks that you need some more players just to make the playoffs, huh?


now THAT is the best post of the thread.:thumbsup:

[Arkansas Bronco]

Kinda sucks not having a Shannon Sharpe around anymore huh?
You a Colts fan or a Steeler fan or are you actualy Waffleboy?

[DrFate]

I think we have a lot of catch first TE on this team. and that's fine, I like that. but we need someone that can realy block and can be effective in the red zone.

We do? Not to be ****ty - but name one.

[12th man]

We do? Not to be ****ty - but name one.
Sheffler.

[Master___Pain]

I said in an earlier post that Graham has a better ability to find the endzone than Putzier. I think this team needs playmakers (which I have said in many a thread) and getting a blocking tight end doesn't help. We are hurting at RB and really hurting at TE. So we are trading a disgruntled WR for a TE that is an offensive downgrade from Putzier (and Putzier was nobody's All Star) (fewer catches, fewer yards, more TD production)

Okay, so what do you suggest then? What would you like to see happen? What play makers are out there that we could get for Lelie?

[DrFate]

Sheffler.

Your 'Exhibit A' is a guy who has never played an NFL down?

That isn't encouraging...

[Steve Sewell]

I can't speak to his blocking - but his numbers aren't impressive.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302195

You are talking about a guy who has never caught 40 balls in a season, a guy who has never caught 500 yards in a season. People have said him or Crumpler - Crumpler is a Pro Bowl TE. Graham isn't. You are talking about a guy who's average season to date is 25 catches and about 300 yards. Big deal.

If we need a blocker, but another OT out there.

You're right...Denver has never valued a good blocking tight end. The Patriots players have been quoted as saying that he's the best blocker on their team...including OL.

We have the pass catching TE in Scheffler...but he's a rookie. We need a guy who can come in and block. Graham is considered to be one of the best blocking TE's in the NFL. Also, look at his TD production and it's pretty obvious that he makes a lot of plays in the red zone.

I just don't get why you don't see any value in this guy. For Lelie, he'd be a steal.

[27atwater]

vernon davis

[Master___Pain]

vernon davis

Huh?

[12th man]

Your 'Exhibit A' is a guy who has never played an NFL down?

That isn't encouraging...
Yeah, but the one knock on him is his blocking. But seriously, our TE's are better at receiving than blocking.

[DrFate]

Okay, so what do you suggest then? What would you like to see happen? What play makers are out there that we could get for Lelie?

I think we are really thin at TE, but if I had the power I'd call CHI and see about a Lelie for Thomas Jones trade. The question marks in the backfield scare me more than the holes at TE.

And I'm not anti-Graham. I'm sure he's a good player and would be an asset. But people on this board have said we shouldn't trade Lelie for anything except top value (for many reasons) - and I don't see Graham as having that kind of value.

[27atwater]

Huh?


sorry. a bit late. was supposed to go after yer "who do you suggest" post. shoulda quoted it. oh well.

and I was kidding.

[Steve Sewell]

I agree that there isn't any chance we get a Pro Bowl caliber player for Lelie. I just don't see what people are so hot/bothered about with Graham.

I'm not slamming the guy, and I realize he is a Colorado guy. And that's great. But I'm not sure we are getting value for what amounts to a blocking tight end who has had trouble staying healthy. He hasn't been anything more than a very mediocre player on a team that passes a ton.

You seem to forget that NE drafted Ben Watson the year after Graham. He's their primary pass catching threat. It's not like Graham was the only show in town and just stunk up the place...

[Champ4prez]

You're right...Denver has never valued a good blocking tight end. The Patriots players have been quoted as saying that he's the best blocker on their team...including OL.

We have the pass catching TE in Scheffler...but he's a rookie. We need a guy who can come in and block. Graham is considered to be one of the best blocking TE's in the NFL. Also, look at his TD production and it's pretty obvious that he makes a lot of plays in the red zone.

I just don't get why you don't see any value in this guy. For Lelie, he'd be a steal.

he is good at times in the redzone..at this point, anyone would be a steal for lelie..i for one wouldnt mind seeing him go to KC SD or OAK..so one of our linebackers or safeties can light him up over the middle..if he ever goes over the middle

[DrFate]

Yeah, but the one knock on him is his blocking. But seriously, our TE's are better at receiving than blocking.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that point; I have read the scouting reports that Scheff is a good hands/poor block guy. But I don't see that we have a lot of ANYTHING at that position (Alexander has proven he is a competent NFL TE, but that is it). I was worried before we cut Duke.

[12th man]

I think we are really thin at TE, but if I had the power I'd call CHI and see about a Lelie for Thomas Jones trade. The question marks in the backfield scare me more than the holes at TE.

And I'm not anti-Graham. I'm sure he's a good player and would be an asset. But people on this board have said we shouldn't trade Lelie for anything except top value (for many reasons) - and I don't see Graham as having that kind of value.
I think our back field is going to fine. it always is. Someone will step up. Don't you worry. I think if we don't get a TE we need to go after some depth on the Dline or possibley the safety position.

[DrFate]

You seem to forget that NE drafted Ben Watson the year after Graham. He's their primary pass catching threat. It's not like Graham was the only show in town and just stunk up the place...
Forgot? No...

I know that we are RUMORED (and it is all speculation) to trade our #2 WR (and until Walker can prove he is recovered from the knee, Lelie is the #2) for a blocking TE (who isn't as good as Ben Watson, it seems).

So we trade a starting WR for a backup TE? I just don't see that as a 'good deal'.

[Master___Pain]

I think we are really thin at TE, but if I had the power I'd call CHI and see about a Lelie for Thomas Jones trade. The question marks in the backfield scare me more than the holes at TE.

To me that's as much a pipe dream as getting Crumpler or Whitten. I would love that, but I think it's totally unrealistic. Thomas Jones actually has value.

And I'm not anti-Graham. I'm sure he's a good player and would be an asset. But people on this board have said we shouldn't trade Lelie for anything except top value (for many reasons) - and I don't see Graham as having that kind of value.

I think many here are over valuing Lelie. Tell me this, would you trade a 4th round pick for Dan Graham? I'd do it in a heart beat, because I think he'd be worth a 4th rounder. The same value that the broncos have reportedly been offered for Lelie. Maybe Lelie has more value than Graham and we can some how get a pick along with Graham. It's all specualtion anyway, but I think Dan Graham could be a big contributer to the Broncos next year, more than Lelie will be.

[DrFate]

I think our back field is going to fine. it always is.

I'm afraid this is the year that 'theory' finally dies. We have been lucky, as a team, to have competent guys to plug in. I just don't buy the 'find somebody with a pulse, give themt he ball' concept.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Kinda sucks not having a Shannon Sharpe around anymore huh?

Kinda sucks not having a linebacker who left illegitimate children all over the country doesn't it, huh?

[Steve Sewell]

Forgot? No...

I know that we are RUMORED (and it is all speculation) to trade our #2 WR (and until Walker can prove he is recovered from the knee, Lelie is the #2) for a blocking TE (who isn't as good as Ben Watson, it seems).

So we trade a starting WR for a backup TE? I just don't see that as a 'good deal'.

Yeah, but you called Graham a "mediocre" player, when he is well regarded around the league as one of the best blocking TE's in the NFL. How is that "mediocre?" I've seen him play in college extensively and he is also a pretty dynamic receiving threat when he has to be...and his number in limited action prove that...

Shanahan has always been quoted to value a TE's blocking skills over his pass catching ability. So obviously, you and Shanahan would probably not be on the same page with regard to the value you see in a TE. I'll take what Shanahan values over what you value in this case.

With regard to Lelie, we've been trying to get rid of him for several months now, but our asking price has been too high. I think you are overvaluing him at this point. To get one of the best blocking TE's for a guy who's perceived value is pretty low right now would be a steal at this point.

[12th man]

I'm afraid this is the year that 'theory' finally dies. We have been lucky, as a team, to have competent guys to plug in. I just don't buy the 'find somebody with a pulse, give themt he ball' concept.
I don't agree with that either. but here is why I feel comfortable. Tatum Bell got 900 plus yards missing a couple games, being injured, and sharing time. Dayne has done well when given an opputunity and it's not just some guy runnng with us. He holds rushing records and won the heisman in the collegiant level in a system like ours. Then there is this Mike Bell who is perfect for our system. He has good vision and patiece. I don't know a lot about that cobbs guy but we had him ranked higer than tatum during the draft. Plus Sanny knows how to pick the backs. He has not let us down. with all the rb's we have, Im confident someone will step up.

[BroncoInferno]

Dr. Fate, you're being too superficial in your analysis of Graham. Many people consider him the best blocking TE in all of football. That is a very valuable player to have. He's also a solid receiver. 38 catches and 7 TDs (representing his best season in 2004) would be an upgrade over Putz. No, he won't catch 70 passes, but there are probably only 4 or 5 TEs in the entire league who will give you that kind of production year in and year out. Plus, Scheffler will act as the H-back guy who can stretch defenses. He would a solid pickup and equal value for Lelie. You need to broaden your criteria on this thing beyond looking at a stat sheet.

[BroncoInferno]

I'm afraid this is the year that 'theory' finally dies. We have been lucky, as a team, to have competent guys to plug in. I just don't buy the 'find somebody with a pulse, give themt he ball' concept.

When it happens five times in ten years, it isn't 'luck'. We will have another guy step up this season as we always do.

[MechanicalBull]

Stallworth(less) is crap. If you think he is the answer, Denver is better off signing Lelie to big bucks. He drops more than Lelie and is more fragile. He is a head case.

I would rather have John Stallworth now than Dante Stallworthless

I don't think he is the answer but he isn't worthless either. The guy has played in 56 out of 64 games with 195 receptions(46 catches were for 20+ yds) and 23 touchdowns compare to Lelie who played in all 64 games 168 catches(53 for 20+ yds) and 12 TDs

[DrFate]

To me that's as much a pipe dream as getting Crumpler or Whitten. I would love that, but I think it's totally unrealistic. Thomas Jones actually has value.

The reason it makes sense is Jones is disgruntled after losing the #1 job and will be the same type of distraction as Lelie. But I'm with you. It might take a little more on our end of the deal.

I think many here are over valuing Lelie. Tell me this, would you trade a 4th round pick for Dan Graham? I'd do it in a heart beat, because I think he'd be worth a 4th rounder. The same value that the broncos have reportedly been offered for Lelie. Maybe Lelie has more value than Graham and we can some how get a pick along with Graham. It's all specualtion anyway, but I think Dan Graham could be a big contributer to the Broncos next year, more than Lelie will be.

I promise you - that isn't me. I have been critical of Lelie for some time (and gotten flamed for it, I might add). Would I give up a 4th to get a blocking TE? No - probably not. I just think you are talking about a position that is changing and becoming an integral part of offenses (with players like Gates and Gonzo and Shockey and Heap and V. Davis). Graham as our #1 TE means we have a guy slightly better than Courtney Anderson.

[Steve Sewell]

I'm afraid this is the year that 'theory' finally dies. We have been lucky, as a team, to have competent guys to plug in. I just don't buy the 'find somebody with a pulse, give themt he ball' concept.

And what empirical evidence do you have to base this on? I don't think you can call having a variety of backs combine for the best rushing attack consistently over the last 10 years "lucky".

How do you not "buy" that concept?

[watermock]

What's the big deal with Graham? He has Putzier-like numbers. (although has has better TD numbers)

He's a vastly superior blocker. Chef will be our recieving TE OTF.

[Master___Pain]

I promise you - that isn't me. I have been critical of Lelie for some time (and gotten flamed for it, I might add). Would I give up a 4th to get a blocking TE? No - probably not. I just think you are talking about a position that is changing and becoming an integral part of offenses (with players like Gates and Gonzo and Shockey and Heap and V. Davis). Graham as our #1 TE means we have a guy slightly better than Courtney Anderson.

So, you intially thought that a Lelie for Thomas Jones trade would work, in your opinion. Then you agreed with with me that it's unrealisitc. So please tell what can we get for Lelie? You also said you don't over value Lelie. Let's remove Dan Graham from the equation, as you obviously don't think he's worthy of Lelie. Who or what draft pic is?

[DrFate]

Dr. Fate, you're being too superficial in your analysis of Graham. Many people consider him the best blocking TE in all of football. That is a very valuable player to have. He's also a solid receiver. 38 catches and 7 TDs (representing his best season in 2004) would be an upgrade over Putz. No, he won't catch 70 passes, but there are probably only 4 or 5 TEs in the entire league who will give you that kind of production year in and year out. Plus, Scheffler will act as the H-back guy who can stretch defenses. He would a solid pickup and equal value for Lelie. You need to broaden your criteria on this thing beyond looking at a stat sheet.

When it happens five times in ten years, it isn't 'luck'. We will have another guy step up this season as we always do.

I guess the main difference is I'm not drinking the Orange/Blue KoolAid and smiling. (assume we trade Lelie for Graham) We lose our #1 ground man. We lose our #2 and our #3 pass catchers. We replace Putzier with a guy who is less of a receiving threat. (And I was critical of Putzier as being overrated by the people on this board, so it isn't easy to downgrade at that position)

How is that not a net loss? (I am convientently ignoring Walker, who will need to prove himself) If we need a blocker - put Eslinger out there as a tackle elligible.

[NOLA Bronco]

I don't think he is the answer but he isn't worthless either. The guy has played in 56 out of 64 games with 195 receptions(46 catches were for 20+ yds) and 23 touchdowns compare to Lelie who played in all 64 games 168 catches(53 for 20+ yds) and 12 TDs


Look past the stats. Stallworthless accumulated a lot of his when the game was no longer in doubt. Big drops in key moments. Poor work ethic. You have to have a really poor work ethic to be called out by Hazlett the last couple years. After watching Saints games for years, trust me, you don't want this guy. He isn't an upgrade, even if he is #3.

I will have to admit, I am intrigued by David Terrell. He accepted being inactive last year with a lot of humility. He knew he had to learn the system and a leason. He knows he needs to feed off of Rod Smith and his work ethic. I say this guy gets a chance.

I just don't see how the Broncos are going to get any impact guy (especialy on offense) for Lelie. They are better off holding on to him, until some team needs him because of an injury.

[Steve Sewell]

Dr. Fate, you're being too superficial in your analysis of Graham. Many people consider him the best blocking TE in all of football. That is a very valuable player to have. He's also a solid receiver. 38 catches and 7 TDs (representing his best season in 2004) would be an upgrade over Putz. No, he won't catch 70 passes, but there are probably only 4 or 5 TEs in the entire league who will give you that kind of production year in and year out. Plus, Scheffler will act as the H-back guy who can stretch defenses. He would a solid pickup and equal value for Lelie. You need to broaden your criteria on this thing beyond looking at a stat sheet.

Totally agree...

One of the best blocking TE in the NFL in his prime (27 yrs old), in the leagues #1 rushing offense over the last 10 years, who has soft hands and is a legitimate red zone threat...for a disgruntled, one dimensional WR who will never play for the Broncos again and would leave them next year for FA anyway...

Yeah, that would suck!thwack

[DomCasual]

Kinda sucks not having a linebacker who left illegitimate children all over the country doesn't it, huh?
tsk tsk Careful. He's dead. When he died, all those illegitimate children were legitimized. You're not allowed to say anything about it anymore.

[watermock]

Stallworth(less) is crap. If you think he is the answer, Denver is better off signing Lelie to big bucks. He drops more than Lelie and is more fragile. He is a head case.

I would rather have John Stallworth now than Dante Stallworthless

I pray New Orleans feels the same way, but we have alot of WR's sans Lelie. Stallworth could very well be part of a 3 way tho. Not that there's anything wrong with that. He's battled injury but has a nose for the endzone. One scenario might be Lelie for Stallworth for Graham, God only knows. I'm pretty sure this self created suicide by Lelie will be consumated before mini camp.

[DrFate]

So, you intially thought that a Lelie for Thomas Jones trade would work, in your opinion. Then you agreed with with me that it's unrealisitc. So please tell what can we get for Lelie? You also said you don't over value Lelie. Let's remove Dan Graham from the equation, as you obviously don't think he's worthy of Lelie. Who or what draft pic is?

Read my original post again: I said: "if I had the power I'd call CHI and see about a Lelie for Thomas Jones trade." That is all I said - call CHI and make the offer; then deal from there. If a straight-up deal is not viable (which is probably isn't) - then see if Lelie plus a pick will get Jones.

I have said Lelie has more value to the Broncos in 06 than a 2nd day pick (assuming he decides to report). If a blocking TE is the best we can do - heh, Lelie has really fallen off the value chart.

[BroncoInferno]

I guess the main difference is I'm not drinking the Orange/Blue KoolAid and smiling. (assume we trade Lelie for Graham) We lose our #1 ground man. We lose our #2 and our #3 pass catchers. We replace Putzier with a guy who is less of a receiving threat. (And I was critical of Putzier as being overrated by the people on this board, so it isn't easy to downgrade at that position)

How is that not a net loss? (I am convientently ignoring Walker, who will need to prove himself) If we need a blocker - put Eslinger out there as a tackle elligible.

Graham is not a downgrade as a receiver from Putz. He has two seasons that exceed Putz's best. Plus, he is one of the best blocking TEs in the game. As a whole, that is a decided upgrade. And that's assuming we don't get abnthing out of Scheffler, which I think we will. Walker is better than Lelie by a fairly wide margin. Another upgrade. Our offense will be in better shape as a whole if we add Graham than it was in '05.

[-Slap-]

Totally agree...

One of the best blocking TE in the NFL in his prime (27 yrs old), in the leagues #1 rushing offense over the last 10 years, who has soft hands and is a legitimate red zone threat...for a disgruntled, one dimensional WR who will never play for the Broncos again and would leave them next year for FA anyway...

Yeah, that would suck!thwack
I'm hoping for Graham, too, but before you nominate him for sainthood, realize he's only going to be a one year rental. One reason New England is shopping him is they know he'll be unsignable next year.

[ozomulsion]

I think we are really thin at TE, but if I had the power I'd call CHI and see about a Lelie for Thomas Jones trade. The question marks in the backfield scare me more than the holes at TE.


Yeah, Shanny & Turner need to get a clue about this whole runningback thing. Uhh If you worry about the Broncos running game you must worry about everything.

[Rascal]

Graham is not a downgrade as a receiver from Putz. He has two seasons that exceed Putz's best. Plus, he is one of the best blocking TEs in the game. As a whole, that is a decided upgrade. And that's assuming we don't get abnthing out of Scheffler, which I think we will. Walker is better than Lelie by a fairly wide margin. Another upgrade. Our offense will be in better shape as a whole if we add Graham than it was in '05.

Quotted for truth. Several of BI's posts have been right on.

[watermock]

I guess the main difference is I'm not drinking the Orange/Blue KoolAid and smiling. (assume we trade Lelie for Graham) We lose our #1 ground man. We lose our #2 and our #3 pass catchers. We replace Putzier with a guy who is less of a receiving threat. (And I was critical of Putzier as being overrated by the people on this board, so it isn't easy to downgrade at that position)

How is that not a net loss? (I am convientently ignoring Walker, who will need to prove himself) If we need a blocker - put Eslinger out there as a tackle elligible.

WTF are you talking about. What #1 "ground man"...Putz has absolutely NOTHING to do with a possible trade, he was released and signed with Kubiak. Your acting like we are giving up 3 players when it's actually a spoiled brat that is holding out and doesn't understand his role would of expanded over time. Lelie is the reason we got Walker and drafted two more WR and Chef. The fact is, Lelie was whining long before we traded for Walker, so he expidited his own demise. What a fool.

No way we would of gotten 4 recievers in the draft if he wasn't allready acting out. And what makes you think Eslinger is a tackle with good hands?

[DomCasual]

I'm hoping for Graham, too, but before you nominate him for sainthood, realize he's only going to be a one year rental. One reason New England is shopping him is they know he'll be unsignable next year.
He's unsignable for them. But part of that is just that they can't justify signing him for what he's worth, because they know that Ben Watson is their #1 tight end for the forseeable future. We don't have that same problem. And I would guess he would like to play here, considering his CU ties.

[DrFate]

Graham is not a downgrade as a receiver from Putz. He has two seasons that exceed Putz's best. Plus, he is one of the best blocking TEs in the game. As a whole, that is a decided upgrade. And that's assuming we don't get abnthing out of Scheffler, which I think we will. Walker is better than Lelie by a fairly wide margin. Another upgrade. Our offense will be in better shape as a whole if we add Graham than it was in '05.

Graham's best season was 38/409/4 and his second best was 30/364/7..

Putzier was 36/572/2 and 37/481/0 the past 2 years.

I'm not entirely sure how that equates into 'two seasons that exceed Putz's best' - but maybe you are giving the TDs more weight. I don't know. From a 'catches and yards' standpoint, Putzier has a pretty good lead on Graham.

And I certainly agree that Walker has more to offer than Lelie - but Walker's knee is a question. And none of this addresses our journeymen backfield.

[DrFate]

WTF are you talking about. What #1 "ground man"..

I was talking about Anderson.

[BroncoInferno]

I'm hoping for Graham, too, but before you nominate him for sainthood, realize he's only going to be a one year rental. One reason New England is shopping him is they know he'll be unsignable next year.

That may be true, but Lelie is on a one year lease as well. I'd rather put that lease on a brutal blocking red zone threat than a pansy-assed malcontent.

[NOLA Bronco]

I pray New Orleans feels the same way, but we have alot of WR's sans Lelie. Stallworth could very well be part of a 3 way tho. Not that there's anything wrong with that. He's battled injury but has a nose for the endzone. One scenario might be Lelie for Stallworth for Graham, God only knows. I'm pretty sure this self created suicide by Lelie will be consumated before mini camp.


Stallworthless may have some TD's, but most of them were in meaningless scenarios. He wilts under pressure.

[Steve Sewell]

I guess the main difference is I'm not drinking the Orange/Blue KoolAid and smiling. (assume we trade Lelie for Graham) We lose our #1 ground man. We lose our #2 and our #3 pass catchers. We replace Putzier with a guy who is less of a receiving threat. (And I was critical of Putzier as being overrated by the people on this board, so it isn't easy to downgrade at that position)

How is that not a net loss? (I am convientently ignoring Walker, who will need to prove himself) If we need a blocker - put Eslinger out there as a tackle elligible.
This is being short sighted.

I realize that you are ignoring Walker, but team trainers and Shanny are confident that he will be ready for training camp. That's an immediate upgrade over Lelie (if you want to focus on stats, which you have done already, his SUCK). Again, I will defer to a 2 time SB Champion coach and Greek over you any day of the week.

#2 Receiver: Walker over Lelie is an upgrade. Any personnel man in the NFL would agree with that opinion.

Scheffler is an upgrade over Putzier. That has been made obvious by our cutting of Putz and drafting of him. And from what has been reported, he's incredibly athletic (big and fast) and has good hands. If we were to bring in Graham, that would free up blocking duties and allow us to feature a pass catching TE that much more.

#3 Receiver: Combine Graham and Scheffler and it is a monumental upgrade over Putzier.

With regard to running back, MA is over 30 years old. I'm sorry, I simply REFUSE to question Bobby Turner and Mike Shanahan when it comes to their philosophy on running backs. I don't know if anybody in the NFL would have the credibility to do that, much less yourself. Based on their track record, I'm fully confident that we'll have a 1000 yard rusher next season, whether it be Bell, Dayne, or Cobbs. We put Reuben freaking Droughns in, who at the time was a bigger nobody than any of the afforementioned backs, and he had a HUGE year for us two years ago. How in the world can you question Shanahan with regard to this? That's mind boggling.

I'm drinking the koolaid, but at least I'm being rational about our offseason moves. Are you just questioning them to question them? I don't get it.

[BroncoInferno]

Graham's best season was 38/409/4 and his second best was 30/364/7..

Putzier was 36/572/2 and 37/481/0 the past 2 years.

I'm not entirely sure how that equates into 'two seasons that exceed Putz's best' - but maybe you are giving the TDs more weight. I don't know. From a 'catches and yards' standpoint, Putzier has a pretty good lead on Graham.

And I certainly agree that Walker has more to offer than Lelie - but Walker's knee is a question. And none of this addresses our journeymen backfield.

I do put more weight on TDs. Nevertheless, it's at worst a push in terms of receiving ability. And his supreme blocking make it an upgrade. That top notch blocking, by the way, will help the running game you are so concerned about. Again, five different 1000 yard rushers in ten seasons...that is not luck. It's a trend. We will be fine there.

[Steve Sewell]

Graham's best season was 38/409/4 and his second best was 30/364/7..

Putzier was 36/572/2 and 37/481/0 the past 2 years.

I'm not entirely sure how that equates into 'two seasons that exceed Putz's best' - but maybe you are giving the TDs more weight. I don't know. From a 'catches and yards' standpoint, Putzier has a pretty good lead on Graham.

And I certainly agree that Walker has more to offer than Lelie - but Walker's knee is a question. And none of this addresses our journeymen backfield.

Their pass catching stats are comparable. You forget to mention the unmeasurable stat and that's blocking ability. Putz has none- that's why he isn't a Bronco anymore. Graham has a ton. Do the math...

[ozomulsion]

Stallworthless may have some TD's, but most of them were in meaningless scenarios. He wilts under pressure.

Saint fans expected him to be better than he turned out to be. This doesn't change the fact that he would be a fine slot receiver for us.

[NOLA Bronco]

Saint fans expected him to be better than he turned out to be. This doesn't change the fact that he would be a fine slot receiver for us.


If he was willing maybe. He is like Lelie, he thinks he should be #1. He doesn't have what it takes to work for it, and will never be the team player he would have to be to accept the role.

[Steve Sewell]

I'm hoping for Graham, too, but before you nominate him for sainthood, realize he's only going to be a one year rental. One reason New England is shopping him is they know he'll be unsignable next year.

Slap, if there was a trade, then contract extensions would obviously be a part of the equation for all parties involved. If anyone, Lelie would be the rental player.

[MechanicalBull]

Look past the stats. Stallworthless accumulated a lot of his when the game was no longer in doubt. Big drops in key moments. Poor work ethic. You have to have a really poor work ethic to be called out by Hazlett the last couple years. After watching Saints games for years, trust me, you don't want this guy. He isn't an upgrade, even if he is #3.

I will have to admit, I am intrigued by David Terrell. He accepted being inactive last year with a lot of humility. He knew he had to learn the system and a leason. He knows he needs to feed off of Rod Smith and his work ethic. I say this guy gets a chance.

I just don't see how the Broncos are going to get any impact guy (especialy on offense) for Lelie. They are better off holding on to him, until some team needs him because of an injury.


I agree with you on the Terrell part cause I am looking forward towards seeing him and you have probably seen Stallworth in action more than I have but I'm just saying if he is on the trading block I would feel more confident going into the season with him as our #3 than an unproven Terrell and Watts or a rookie like Marshall or Hixon. If Walker can't go the whole season and we don't have Lelie or Stallworth there will be a huge drop off for a #2 WR.

I also agree on your last statement about holding on to him until preseason to see what teams need him cause of injury and that we won't get an impact player for him. I'm just being realistic at what I think we can get for him and out of every player that was mentioned in this thread and the other one I would take Graham first and Stallworth second over the likes of Eric Johnson or Heiden.

[bronco_mvp_30]

If he was willing maybe. He is like Lelie, he thinks he should be #1. He doesn't have what it takes to work for it, and will never be the team player he would have to be to accept the role.

Denver needs to be very careful to not trade one problem for another...

Walker has an ego the size of a house! I am holding my breath to see if he can keep his "I need this..." & his "I need that..." in check.

Wide recievers need a bit of bravado, but DAMN. What happened to working hard, scoring the TD, handing the ball to the ref, and going BACK TO WORK!

The l;ast hting this team needs is another ego, always asking for MORE!

[NOLA Bronco]

I agree with you on the Terrell part cause I am looking forward towards seeing him and you have probably seen Stallworth in action more than I have but I'm just saying if he is on the trading block I would feel more confident going into the season with him as our #3 than an unproven Terrell and Watts or a rookie like Marshall or Hixon. If Walker can't go the whole season and we don't have Lelie or Stallworth there will be a huge drop off for a #2 WR.

I also agree on your last statement about holding on to him until preseason to see what teams need him cause of injury and that we won't get an impact player for him. I'm just being realistic at what I think we can get for him and out of every player that was mentioned in this thread and the other one I would take Graham first and Stallworth second over the likes of Eric Johnson or Heiden.

Receivers don't come into Denver an make an impact right away. Stallworthless would be behind the curve from the get go. I would feel more confortable with Watts or Steve Watson than I would with Stallworthless.

[Champ4prez]

Denver needs to be very careful to not trade one problem for another...

Walker has an ego the size of a house! I am holding my breath to see if he can keep his "I need this..." & his "I need that..." in check.

Wide recievers need a bit of bravado, but DAMN. What happened to working hard, scoring the TD, handing the ball to the ref, and going BACK TO WORK!

The l;ast hting this team needs is another ego, always asking for MORE!

i think its ok to have a big ego so long as you back your play up..there isnt too much ego or players crying for the ball much on this team..seems like everyone is a team player..only one to cry and jump ship is lelie..

[BroncoInferno]

Receivers don't come into Denver an make an impact right away.

On what are you basing this assertion? Kennison is the only attempt we ever made at trying to bring in a moderately successful (albeit inconsistent) veteran from outside the organization during the Shanny era. That one loser does not establish a pattern.

[Steve Sewell]

On what are you basing this assertion? Kennison is the only attempt we ever made at trying to bring in a moderately successful (albeit inconsistent) veteran from outside the organization during the Shanny era. That one loser does not establish a pattern.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Don't bring up the name "Kennison" in here. Boob has an innate sense for this and will hijack this thread within seconds defending Quitterson and espousing on his greatness.

The Chiefs have "the next Marvin Harrison" in Parker, so Quitterson must be a god on the gridiron, according to Boob.

[NOLA Bronco]

On what are you basing this assertion? Kennison is the only attempt we ever made at trying to bring in a moderately successful (albeit inconsistent) veteran from outside the organization during the Shanny era. That one loser does not establish a pattern.


Rookie WR's as well. There is no pattern for success either, other than maybe Eddie Mac. Stallworthless doesn't exactly have his work ethic.

[BroncoInferno]

Rookie WR's as well. There is no pattern for success either, other than maybe Eddie Mac. Stallworthless doesn't exactly have his work ethic.

Well, sure, but rookie WRs don't generally produce much for any team. Veteran WRs are not the same thing, and we simply haven't brought in enough of those guys in the past (at least not in the Shanny-era) to establish a pattern of failure. Hell, I fiorgot about Eddie Mac. We are one-for-two in terms of bringing in a moderately successful vet WR from another team and having success. No clear pattern here.

[Requiem]

Eagles | Lelie's agent says team has shown no interest
Thu, 8 Jun 2006 07:24:39 -0700
Les Bowen, of the Philadelphia Daily News, reports Denver Broncos (http://www.kffl.com/team/15/nfl) WR Ashley Lelie (http://www.kffl.com/player/622/nfl)'s agent, Peter Schaffer, said Wednesday, June 7, the Philadelphia Eagles (http://www.kffl.com/team/29/nfl) have shown no interest in trading for Lelie.

[Hulamau]

I honestly think Daniel Graham/Ashlie Lelie makes sense for both teams. Of the realistic options, he would be my first choice.


IF we get Euhus or whatever his name is AND a #3 pic in '07 maybe, but NO WAY its a straight up trade of Ash for a guy who has only started a handful of games in two years.

If it is Shanny must be cutting off his own nose just to spite his face!

[Dempsey Dog]

Jeremy Green is having a live chat on ESPN and said the following:

There has been some buzz today about a three team trade involving Ashley Lelie, SF's Eric Johnson and the Saints Donte Stallworth. Lelie would go to New Orleans, Stallworth to the 49ers and Johnson to Denver. I think Denver is still just shaking the tree with teams to see what exactly they can get for Lelie.

Frankly that sucks! Another pass catching TE and fragile too....damn!


I do not know if this has been posted, but this is scouting report on Graham and Johnson form Scouts Inc:

Danial Graham
2006 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 75 | Key (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/features/scouting#key)
Alert: D

Comment:
He has really improved as a route runner, and has a knack for finding soft spots in zones, pushing off, and getting open underneath. He can snatch the ball away from his body, can make the tough catch in traffic, and is excellent on the high ball. Because of his speed, athleticism and acceleration, he is a tough matchup for a linebacker, in terms of speed, and even tougher for a safety. He does an excellent job of running after the catch and has acceleration and power in the open field. He has some nastiness when he blocks, does a great job of keeping his frame in front of the defender and playing with leverage. He is also very productive as a receiver on screen passes where he can get outside and take advantage of his size and open field run skills.


Eric Johnson
2006 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 72 | Key (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/features/scouting#key)
Alert: None

Comment:
Johnson has good quickness and has shown that he can get a release off the LOS. He has good speed but not great. He has the ability to work into the open spot and he does a good job of screening defenders away from the ball. He runs precise routes and can accelerate out of his break. He has soft hands and can catch the ball away from his body. He has a feisty attitude and will battle you in an effort to do a good job in pass pro. He will not offer much in run after catch and is a better receiver than a blocker. He lacks the strength to be a dominant blocker. He is used mostly in cut off situations in the run game and is not much at the POA. He has a poor base and poor balance and has a difficult time with a physical defensive end. He is intelligent and will not make mistakes and his effort is keeping him alive.


I would much rather have Graham. He does not have as many catches, but he was always competing for them against Watson and Fauria when he was with NE.

[bendog]

If he was willing maybe. He is like Lelie, he thinks he should be #1. He doesn't have what it takes to work for it, and will never be the team player he would have to be to accept the role.
Slot. Guy's weaker than JJ 'dynomite' Walker.

[MechanicalBull]

I'd be real disappointed if we end up with Johnson, but I guess its better we get him this year than next cause he missed all 03, played in 04, missed all of 05. So this year he is due to play a full season. :laugh:

[Paladin]

I hope that this rumor gets put to bed soon. I hope there is no TE involved. I hope the player coming to DEN is a DLman. I think something could be accomplished to get a pretty good DT if the Broncos were to package Lelie, Ernster and a pick and end up with a good Dlineman. Wouldn't that help? I think that would be swell. Someone is going to have to let a TE go later for a low pick maybe or even put them on the wire.

Almost any scenario that moves Lelie and Denver gets value will be good. The problem with Sheaffer's little whispers is that he can give only very cryptic, fuzzy and incomplete information. That leads to - ahem! - wild speculation and humourous conjectures.

That's not to say some of this stuff has not been entertaining. It has.

[broncosteven]

http://www.scenicphotographsbyvance.com/images/sh230b-The-Grand-Tetons.jpg

The Grand Tetons


When I saw this pic I saw a man humping a chick in the cloud formation. What does that mean about my psyche?

[broncosteven]

I will take Chicago's 2-3 for 2007 if nothing else pans out. Benson or Thomas Jones would also be nice to have for Ash, Chicago also has DT depth. They would make a nice partner if Anglo was smart enough to pull the trigger.

[kamakazi_kal]

how about a trade involving the lions for mike williams who has recently fallen out of favor there....... trade for williams and convert him to TE.......

just a thought.......im bored.......59 days and counting

[kamakazi_kal]

I will take Chicago's 2-3 for 2007 if nothing else pans out. Benson or Thomas Jones would also be nice to have for Ash, Chicago also has DT depth. They would make a nice partner if Anglo was smart enough to pull the trigger.

i would take briggs

[Broncoman13]

Dr. Fate keeps bringing up RB's. I'm personally not real concerned about the position. I think we have a good tandem with Dayne and Bell. I think Cobbs can suprise as well. Not to mention Cecil Sapp has done well in limited carries.

If you're concerned about the run game, why not upgrade a few different areas with one player. Daniel Graham upgrades your blocking. The Pats liked to use three different TE's. That is the main reason his stats are skewed. It has NOTHING to do with capability. He is a very capable receiver, but honestly we have Scheff and White House for those needs. If either of those guys could block then we wouldn't have a need for a TE.

Dr. Fate mentioned that we should just grab an OT and make him a TE if we needed a blocker. That's fine and dandy, but that limits your options with the play action at the goal line. Something that Hape and House did very well. Daniel Graham is an upgrade over either of those guys, both in blocking and in receiving.

[Broncoman13]

I will take Chicago's 2-3 for 2007 if nothing else pans out. Benson or Thomas Jones would also be nice to have for Ash, Chicago also has DT depth. They would make a nice partner if Anglo was smart enough to pull the trigger.

Maybe we should just ask for Brian Urlacher or Tommie Harris while we're at it. Yeah, we'll give the Bears Ash and our 7th in 2007 for Cedric Benson, Tommie Harris, and they can go ahead and throw in Brian Urlacher while we're dealing... you know, just to make it fair. :rofl:

[wolf754life]

wow, things are heating up and fast, the broncos certainly didn't expect this many offers, and so many options, draft picks, tight end, even a rb! Something will happen, but it will be a while, at least two weeks, before a trigger is pulled.

[Lev Vyvanse]

Hmmm, looks like people on here like to change other's posts. I guess thats the best anyone here can come up with.

Whoever did that to your sig must have you pegged. LOL

[broncosteven]

Maybe we should just ask for Brian Urlacher or Tommie Harris while we're at it. Yeah, we'll give the Bears Ash and our 7th in 2007 for Cedric Benson, Tommie Harris, and they can go ahead and throw in Brian Urlacher while we're dealing... you know, just to make it fair. :rofl:


Sorry I wasn't Crystal Clear I would be happy with one of those options. Jeez

[WABronco]

I'm hoping for Graham, too, but before you nominate him for sainthood, realize he's only going to be a one year rental. One reason New England is shopping him is they know he'll be unsignable next year.
...that and NE has Ben Watson (stud of future studs).

[BroncosMT]

wow, things are heating up and fast, the broncos certainly didn't expect this many offers, and so many options, draft picks, tight end, even a rb! Something will happen, but it will be a while, at least two weeks, before a trigger is pulled.


Why keep posting that stuff? You aren't helping the situation. I hope the nonsense ends soon and they pull the trigger. Obviously the suspense is killing.

Also I thought you said this was a done deal?

[Broncoman13]

F*ck Wolf. I've been listening to his BS for two or three nights now. Once a trade is consumated (no matter what the trade) he'll be here to say, "Yep, that's exactly what I was told would happen."

Wolf man, if you don't want to name the player to "save" your sources, then don't pipe in anything... DICK!

Sorry for the hate, but man that pisses me off. I hate it when anybody does that sort of thing so don't take it personal.

[Broncoman13]

Sorry I wasn't Crystal Clear I would be happy with one of those options. Jeez


My point is, if you're going to dream (any ONE of those three is dreaming!) then you might as well dream big!

Thomas Jones would probably require Ash and a 3rd or 4th. The Bears don't exactly have a vertical offense, so Ash makes little sense to begin with.

No way in hell they trade Benson. They would just as soon trade Urlacher or Harris.

[Steve Sewell]

how about a trade involving the lions for mike williams who has recently fallen out of favor there....... trade for williams and convert him to TE.......

just a thought.......im bored.......59 days and counting

Oh I'm sure Williams would embrace that move with a passion. He would be a tenacious blocker...lol

[Cool Breeze]

The Titans milked the McNair issue for awhile.
I think/hope the Broncos will milk this too - just as an example for others.
There are too many pages of conjecture to read though.

[bcbronc]

My point is, if you're going to dream (any ONE of those three is dreaming!) then you might as well dream big!

Thomas Jones would probably require Ash and a 3rd or 4th. The Bears don't exactly have a vertical offense, so Ash makes little sense to begin with.

No way in hell they trade Benson. They would just as soon trade Urlacher or Harris.


why would it take ash and a first day pick to acquire jones? whats with this thomas jones love affair? if TJ is so great, why has he played for 3 teams in his 6 year career? if he's so great, why did chicago use a top 5 pick on cedrick benson? maybe its his 1 season with 1000 yards, or his 1 season with over 250 carries, or his one season with over 30 receptions, or his 4.0 career rushing average?

i mean, i don't have anything against jones. i would rather have him than just let ash walk. but i would be very surprised if he came in and ended up any higher than 3rd on the depth chart. and he certainly isnt worth ash and a first day pick.

[broncos-rock]

I'd love to hear Wabbits take on all of this!!